Professor Marianne H. Skanland’s Discourse at Anti-Barnevernet Protest in Oslo June 11th 2016

DSCN0346

Barnevernet – what must happen now?

(source mhskanland.net) 
••
Speech held at Eidsvolls plass before Stortinget (the Norwegian parliament)
in Oslo, on 11 June 2016
••

What must be done for Norway to achieve a child protection service which protects children?

We have come some way in that many more thousands of people, in many countries, now know how the Norwegian system operates to the detriment of children and parents.
What is the next thing we need?

*

Let us think back to the last local elections. There was a trial project going in some municipalities: Young people down to 16 were allowed to vote.
Very well.
At the same time these 16-year-olds are not allowed to decide where to live? At least not if Barnevernet has confiscated them. Barnevernet holds them by force until they are 18.

So what must happen?

The government must announce something we can call an amnesty.
Under normal conditions an amnesty is something given to people who have broken the law. That is not the case here. But for children who long for home but are held captive in foster homes and institutions against their will, and without having done anything criminal, this is punishment. It is as if they and their parents are doing something criminal by wanting to be together.
So the abolishment of this duress is an amnesty.

The government must issue a clear order that all foster children who want to, can go home to their families freely, and will if necessary receive help to get home. Do not let foster persons try to pressure them, or impose conditions, or stop them taking their favourite teddy-bear with them, or keep back a pet of theirs in the foster home.

Instruct the police that Barnevernet no longer has the authority to call upon them to fetch children from their parents with force when the children themselves want to be with their parents. Regardless of age, every foster child who says it wants to go home, must have the right to go home. Without delay.
Those children who want to continue in foster homes, shall of course also have the freedom to do so, but not the freedom to speak on behalf of all those who want to go home.

*

And then one more step:

Again we should think back. This time back to the time when the Soviet Union had begun practicing “glasnost’” (openness). In 1988, Gorbachev cancelled the yearly exams in the subject history! Down at school level.
Why?
When accurate information was available in the Soviet Union, it became clear that one could not continue with the incorrect version of history which a faulty ideology had led to. New textbooks were needed, and new teaching, from basics.

In the same way our country must put a stop to the present teaching of Barnevern going on in the colleges.
New students of child protection are due to start classes in the autumn. The same teaching is also dished out to kindergarten personnel, to law students, to the police and many other professions.
It must be stopped and the present text book literature done away with. Teaching personnel who promote today’s understanding of how children are protected, must be prevented from doing so.
It is bad enough that it will take time to replace child protection workers who practice a harmful ideology. But we must at least prevent new classes of students being taught the same thing.
Quite new, different resources must be enlisted, new textbooks, new personnel to take students on for practice, so that we can end the harmful actions which today’s Barnevern so often carry out.

*

There is a whole series of things which must be done for families in Norway to become safe against obliteration by our own country’s authorities. But the two things I have mentioned here are among the most important to get off the ground.

Thank you!

**

References:

History Tests Canceled for Soviet Youngsters :
Decision, Affecting 53 Million, Will Provide Time to Correct Stalinist ‘Lies,’ Izvestia Says

Los Angeles Times, 11 June 1988

Moscow Summit: Unmaking History and Debating Rights;
Soviet Pupils Spared Exams While History Is Rewritten

New York Times, 31 May 1988

Mikhail Gorbachev’s Glasnost
OnThisDay.com, no date

38 comments on “Professor Marianne H. Skanland’s Discourse at Anti-Barnevernet Protest in Oslo June 11th 2016

  1. Pingback: Professor Marianne H. Skanland’s Discourse at Anti-Barnevernet Protest in Oslo June 11th 2016 | ARMONIA MAGAZINE - USA

  2. Reblogged this on agnus dei – english + romanian blog and commented:
    Professor Marianne H. Skanland spoke today at a anti-Barnevernet rally held in OSLO, Norway giving a blueprint of what it should look like if Barnevernet were to set things right and operate lawfully both from a legal standpoint and from a moral standpoint.

    May Norway read and restructure before more children’s lives are destoryed and marred forever.

    • I hope more people begin to think like Marianne, rodi.

      Restructuring can be done in many ways. The main thing is that the philosophy must change. This idea that a large percentage of the population can’t be good parents is insane. They are trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can not be done in this case or in any case that I know of unless you are God or you are lucky.

      The question is: “How do you change a philosophy?” I think the only way for change is that a bad philosophy needs to be exposed in order for their to be a right decision.

      Imagine after this is done that all of the people who have had a mindset for so long will have to change with the philosophy, too. This is why we elect politicians in democracies. It is their decision to ask the hard questions like: “Are we doing the right thing here?” In Norway’s democracy, the politicians gave the CPS full power many years ago (1992 I think but I know this entire thing goes back much farther than this.).

      Thus, a moral compass must be maintained. I suggest that this is at the root of the problem. The world is becoming more of a place like the Israel in the last verse of Judges. This is not a good thing. “True Religion” as Mr. Spurgeon would call it, is something which can discern right from wrong and good from evil. I think that we live in a world where a large majority, no matter what they call themselves, are taking the wide path. It has always been a narrow road. God has always been on the throne. Until people come to believe in this last sentence, it will like running up hill with feet chained together. Every philosophy comes with a morality even if it doesn’t admit it. The greatest philosopher of all time was God in the flesh. Until His words are heeded, that we are to “love our neighbor as we love ourselves,” there will be problems. Even if we can’t live perfectly by this rule, we must attempt to do so.

      •   
        Chris: “In Norway’s democracy, the politicians gave the CPS full power many years ago (1992 I think but I know this entire thing goes back much farther than this.).”

        Quite right, Chris, it goes back, more than a hundred years. What has changed lately, is not that the cases have become more crazy (they were equally terrible say 40 years ago) but that Barnevernet has been given more and more resources and been encouraged to spread their wings, so they create ever more cases. The same evil is affecting more and more people.
           There was this law revision in 1992, active from 1993, when e.g. the County Boards/Committees were created, to the DETRIMENT of families, and further formalisations continue to pile up so that freedom has been lost step by step. But I don’t think the 1992 law brought any decisive change, just sort of more of the same that we had had already.
          

        • Thank you for the clarification, Marianne.

          I’m curious about something. Is the history of Norway’s past sterilization policy something that is taught in history courses there, at least on the college level?

        • The sterilisation policy –
          I doubt it. In what kind of subject and what kind of college would that be regularly included? My guess is it would be only for specially active students and post-graduates who investigated themselves, perhaps in the subject history, social history at university – unlikely to be taken up at the district colleges. But I have not investigated this.

        • This is my reason for asking, Marianne.

          Many people have made comments in different places comparing Norway’s situation to the Nazi regime in WWII. I have often thought that the comparisons were too harsh until I learned about the “Mothers’ Homes.” Also, there are many accounts of children being taken from their mothers at birth. Could the reason people refer to the present CPS system as similar to the Nazi Regime is that they believe it to be evil, not unlike a “systematic system” of doing evil that was true of Germany in WWII.

          I may be stretching it here but I have seen so many people using the Nazi term and relating it to the CPS in general probably 100 times. I have never used such a comparison and probably wouldn’t even if there were similarities. However, one might argue that the sterilizations done in Norway for quite a long period were at least evil enough that the children should be taught it so that it didn’t happen again. The Germans appear to make it very clear to their children that the Holocaust occurred in spite of what a recent Iranian leader said. They want their children to know what has happened for several reasons I’m sure. I thought this article was interesting:

          http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/02/06/how_do_german_students_learn_about_the_holocaust.html

          There are other articles about this but this one has a picture of the gates of Auschwitz at the top.

          The Germans are smart in my opinion to be very open about the Holocaust even for children at a pretty early age although the subject is difficult to take in. I would think that such a bad system like the sterilization programs of the Norwegians would be taught in the schools for the same reasons Germans choose to subject their children to this information early in standard education classes. The Germans know that eventually the children are going to hear the accounts of WWII and the ugly parts of their history. Why wouldn’t such a progressive country as Norway be the same as Germany and every student, let’s say at least in high school, be taught one’s own ugly parts of recent history as well as the good ones?

          I may be making a little bit of a jump here, Marianne as I don’t know Norwegian culture all that well but I’ve heard that the sterilizations were pretty ugly as well. I can’t help but wonder why Germans are taught an ugly recent event and the Norwegians aren’t. Again, I know I am speculating here why people compare the current CPS system in Norway to the events in Germany in WWII.

          Please give my your honest opinion, Marianne. Should the history of sterilization in Norway be taught at least in the high schools of Norway for the same reasons the Germans teach the WWII story? I am thinking that Norway would want to do this so that it could make sure the truth is told to their children by their own people rather than to hear it from others.

          Your previous answer seems to indicate that the sterilization policies of Norway are not taught to the Norwegians like the policies of the Germany of WWII are taught to the children in the fourth grade. I’m only wondering why such an educated people wouldn’t know their own history, even the bad parts that are so recent?

          Have I completely lost you in the mist, Marianne? Is my mind wandering where it shouldn’t? Please tell me that this idea of why people might connect the two is incorrect. I know this is a question of moral relativity, but I am only curious. Maybe the sterilization policies in Norway’s recent past aren’t really worth knowing.

          I don’t mean to put you on the spot in any way. If this is a bad question on my part because of my lack of knowledge, please let me know.

          Any thoughts? If you have none then it means my thinking is off in the wrong direction. Or, as a Norwegian, maybe you a bit insulted by such thoughts?

        •   
          Chris on JUNE 12, 2016 @ 4:20 AM about the sterilisation policies and WW2 etc:

          I am absolutely not insulted, quite the contrary. But give me some time to answer (perhaps tonight). I will post as a “new” comment at the bottom of the page, not to make a comprehensive answer too long and “thin”.

        • Yeah, Chris – glad you admit it – you don’t know nothing about Norway. You only trust information coming from your new gospelwriter, but you have asked me about “Mothers homes”. I doubt we use that naming anymore. In the article – to long for my reading – I saw the name Sudmannske and that place I have visited some times, but not the last years.

          Sudmannske – like everything else in a society has changed during the years. Most of the cases I remember was about parents with drug problems of a kind that without the Sudmannske as a possible second chance they would have lost the care for their child.

          I just was on the f.b. and saw one of these more or less hopeless parents- I remembered all the times the parents failed and how many times they got a renewed possibility to show that they meant what they were saying. In this case one parent succeeded – the other I don’t know, but as we all understand it’s a harder project to quit a drug habit as two neither than one. The mother alone was volunarable, but she made it.

          In another case things had gone from a to b to c- living in an apartment with some supervision. I remember sitting in a meeting at Sudmannske at the end of the week and that we made an deal where I should come on home visit on Monday. This was scratched because the father died of an overdose during the weekend. I have observed that addicts trying – really trying, but then fail often end in an overdose – some die trying their best.

          Nowadays Sudmannske is called “Sudmannske parents and child center. The slogan for this center is “Children have a need for a safe and good base for daily care.”

          Possible intake for pregnants and for families with children in preschool age A stay that shall end in a report take 8 weeks – a stay that shall give treatment 3-6 months and a stay in a some kind of crisis 2 weeks. It’s the parents that have the responsibility for the daily care for their child(ren). This is a help measure given according to § 4-4, 2 junction (paragraph) : The child welfare service shall, when the child due to conditions at home or for other reasons is in particular need of assistance, initiate measures to assist the child and the family.

          https://www.bufdir.no/Barnevernsinstitusjoner/Bergen_barn__og_familiesenter/

          If this is the same as nazi and Gestapo? – maybe? – seen with an activists eyes through the oracle of all knowledge – the retired language professor.

        • Knut, who has put you up to this? You are a propagandist for sure. As a teacher, I would have to give you a C for a grade in the semester, but this was a little better than most of your comments.

          First, you haven’t stated that this account is false, which I find fascinating. Yes, you pick about the corners of the story a bit, but you don’t deal with the center. This “speaks” volumes.

          “Yeah, Chris – glad you admit it – you don’t know nothing about Norway. You only trust information coming from your new gospelwriter, but you have asked me about “Mothers homes”. I doubt we use that naming anymore.”

          This is a clear attempt to discredit the messenger. Remember, I didn’t write the story, I only edited it a bit and posted it. Where did I make an admission of knowing nothing of Norway? I admitted to not knowing if one subject was taught in the schools. It is an important subject but maybe not as important as I think. However, there is only one possibility if the subject isn’t covered in your history books at the high school level, or at maybe in the required college history texts, I have to ask myself why. Maybe you can find out for me if it is required reading. That would help.

          I admit to not understanding Norwegian culture. I have never been there. You and Marianne have lived there for years. I have two choices. Do I believe you or do I believe Marianne? You have completely different views on this entire issue. I must mention that some of your references to her have been downright unkind. Ms. M? Please. I remember what you used to call her. I have found her tone to be much more civil towards you than yours has been to her. I know that doesn’t make her correct on this issue, only a much kinder person in my view.

          It is an easy choice. I believe Marianne as the information she shares is backed up by truth on the ground and by statistics. Norway’s statistics tell the story without Marianne. You have seen the statistics of which I “speak.” Do I have to publicize them again for more embarrassment of Norway’s CPS? I have looked at fairly old articles that Marianne has written on this subject. She has stayed the course for many years in spite of the fact that she was swimming upstream in the most severe rapids. I have never asked her, but I think she has done most of this research without pay. You are getting paid for what you do. You are both very devoted to a philosophy, that is sure. Marianne’s philosophy is much more humane than the CPS philosophies. You represent those philosophies. Shall I write a thesis about those, too? I will spare you the embarrassment once again.

          How dare you call her or anyone a gospelwritter unless they claim it. Anyone who claims to be one in our age is lying. The Gospel is a complete story although some of its prophecies have yet to come true. This is either a very sarcastic remark that isn’t even close to being true in most cases I would hope, or it shows that you are ignorant of warnings about adding to or subtracting from God’s Word.

          “In the article – to long for my reading – I saw the name Sudmannske and that place I have visited some times, but not the last years.”

          So, you say that you haven’t been there for years, implying that you don’t have a clue what is going on there.

          I have seen a few other make statements about the length of the article. I can understand this to some degree as we live in a “news bite” world. Many people today can’t focus long enough to read this article which is short in my view and particularly interesting. If I didn’t think so, I wouldn’t have posted it. I already knew that many readers would read the opening and leave. This happens to most publications these days, no matter how interesting they are. This is one of the things that hides you in plain sight: The vast amount of information that is available to the world today. Also, there are so many distractions.

          However, it is your job to read such articles. Yet you act as if this account bores you. How can such a damning report be boring to someone who defends the CPS like it is a family member. I think the reverse is true. You would love to suppress this story and that is why you have spent some time…maybe even days to try and figure out how to respond. If I am not right, I am shocked at how lax you are about your job on this story when you jump all over the littlest tidbit that might make your position look more favorable.

          “Sudmannske – like everything else in a society has changed during the years. Most of the cases I remember was about parents with drug problems of a kind that without the Sudmannske as a possible second chance they would have lost the care for their child.”

          So, you get two chances to keep your child in the most progressive of societies. And the first chance involves quite harsh measures, if the account I have posted is true.

          “I just was on the f.b. and saw one of these more or less hopeless parents- I remembered all the times the parents failed and how many times they got a renewed possibility to show that they meant what they were saying. In this case one parent succeeded – the other I don’t know, but as we all understand it’s a harder project to quit a drug habit as two neither than one. The mother alone was volunarable, but she made it.

          In another case things had gone from a to b to c- living in an apartment with some supervision. I remember sitting in a meeting at Sudmannske at the end of the week and that we made an deal where I should come on home visit on Monday. This was scratched because the father died of an overdose during the weekend. I have observed that addicts trying – really trying, but then fail often end in an overdose – some die trying their best.”

          Of course, you would use some type of examples to go against statistics. This is mostly fluff.

          “Nowadays Sudmannske is called “Sudmannske parents and child center. The slogan for this center is ‘Children have a need for a safe and good base for daily care.’”

          If this story is true and I were a Mom in one of those horrible places, I wouldn’t call it by it’s name either. “Mothers’ Homes” is actually quite kind. I’m sure it takes other not-so-nice names by those who have experienced them firsthand.

          “Possible intake for pregnants and for families with children in preschool age A stay that shall end in a report take 8 weeks – a stay that shall give treatment 3-6 months and a stay in a some kind of crisis 2 weeks. It’s the parents that have the responsibility for the daily care for their child(ren). This is a help measure given according to § 4-4, 2 junction (paragraph) : The child welfare service shall, when the child due to conditions at home or for other reasons is in particular need of assistance, initiate measures to assist the child and the family.”

          Much of this is sort of close to fact (close to fact may be a very good counterfeit) with a very kind treatment towards the CPS. Along with the facts are semantics. Just exchange “assist” for “attempt to remove all biological ties between.” Since you won’t have the statistics for me as your organization, even though it has a very large budget and should easily have them, is unable to come up with simple numbers on easy things, I think if we had the statistics we would find a majority of the mothers stay for the full 6 months.

          Re-reading the “sort-of-close to fact” statement I continue to find other problems but I have given enough.

          https://www.bufdir.no/Barnevernsinstitusjoner/Bergen_barn__og_familiesenter/

          If this is the same as nazi and Gestapo? – maybe? – seen with an activists eyes through the oracle of all knowledge – the retired language professor.

          So, the full weight falls on Marianne’s shoulders? Well, you certainly give her a lot of credit so let’s see what she has to say. My question about her opinion, as someone who is well educated on more than one subect, was about the “why.” Why do so many refer to the CPS using the word Nazi? Yes, I have even seen the term Gestapo used.

          I don’t think anyone would claim Marianne to be an oracle of all knowledge. I think she would laugh at such a suggestion. We ask Marianne because she seems to know the most about this issue in general. She has not been in a Mothers’ Home like the subject of this post. She has only been exposed to so many who have that she has heard 100s if not 1000s of more accounts than I have.

          Also, I like her philosophy way more than I like your organization’s, the one whom you are representing.

          Her last statement makes me more curious about her opinion, now.

          I await her reply.

        • Paid?? It’s Sunday in Norway once a week, too. Wake up, Chris – looking down from above – that is one of the dialogue methods you use – most likely without knowing that you do so.

        • No, I’m not devoted to a philosophy – I only want you to get the right inpression and truth about Norway, Norwegains and the CPS as a whole. If you want to listen to the opinions coming from Ms. M as truth – that’s your choice. I just give you links and imformation from not a personal archieve as Ms. M do – but from the real source.

        • No, it’s not my job to read any posts or articles on the internet. My job is the one I do at and from the CPS office. My job as a Christain 24/7 is to serve the Lord and do my part in the assignment given to us all that have said “Yes” to follow Him – not anybody else ( or something else for that sake).

        • I am going back to bed, Knut.

          I wish you to have a nice day but I don’t see how that is possible, after all.

          Goodbye for now.

        • Keep on sleepwalking, Chis. Seriously – I have noticed that you don’t sleep the whole night through, but look at your websites almost 24/7 – this is not good for your health and both your family and your people needs a man who have their full attention. This commenting on the internet is not at all that interesting or important.

          Why can’t I have a possible nice day? I don’t understand such remarks.

        • Keep on sleepwalking, Chis. Seriously – I have noticed that you don’t sleep the whole night through, but look at your websites almost 24/7 – this is not good for your health and both your family and your people needs a man who have their full attention. This commenting on the internet is not at all that interesting or important.

          Why can’t I have a possible nice day? I don’t understand such remarks.

        • Are those words to me, Knut? You have used someone else’s name.

          Maybe you made a mistake.

          You are right. I need to get back to a regular schedule. I don’t know how you know so much about me, but it doesn’t matter.

          The goal is to get back to a regular schedule and maybe a bit extra for Facebook.

          I do find commenting interesting. I hope someone observes this conversation as it is obvious what you are. In that way it is important. Don’t know where I would put that on a sliding scale.

          I can see why you don’t understand the “nice day” comment.

          God bless you.

  3. Well spoken. It is strange, isn`t it, that a 15-16 year old can not make a judgement and not be responsible on the subject of where he or she wants to live. But the moment he kicks or bites the policeman who (without even asking a question) comes to take him back to the institution or fosterhome he escaped from, he will be regarded as fully responsible, prosecuted and possibly thrown in jail. And this is not even a joke.
    When CPS measures raise aggression and violence from the children themselves, and end up in the court system, then maybe there is something about the “help” that is not working according to the intentions? Or is this just a problem of communication, where the CPS has failed to get through to the kids with the message that the CPS measures is actually really good for them?

  4. Amnestja dla pracownikow barnevernet , dla politykow ktorzy wiedza i nie reaguja ?
    Co z malymi dziecmi ,porwanymi noworodkami,szczegolnie tymi ktore nie przezyly pod opiekunczymi skrzydlami barnevernet,?

  5.   
    I tried hard this time to limit my speech to around 5 minutes. It is always tempting to go on and bring in sidetracks and further thoughts, but when the audience has to stand, and you are not in advance sure of the weather (you never can be in Scandinavia), and there are other speakers who have interesting things to bring across, I thought it better to stick to just those two things, because I thought the analogies which I described briefly at the start of each point really are enlightening.

    But perhaps I can say here what I should have liked to elaborate on a little:

    I concerns point 2, about starting again with new teaching. What I am really trying to tell our prime minister Erna Solberg can be paraphrased this way: It is about time that her government makes a start on that which the Soviet Union was already doing 30 years ago. The fact that such a comparison may not be altogether out of the way ought to tell them something.

  6. Chris

    Maciej Zaremba Bielawski napisal ksiazke Higienisci.To jest swietny podrecznik historii eugeniki.Zostal za ta ksiazke nagrodzony tytulem honoris causa uniwersytetu w Lund ( Szwecja).Maciej Zaremba Bielawski jest dziennikarzem pisma Dagens Nyheter w Szwecji.Powinniscie do niego napisad prosbe o jakis artykul do Armonia Magazine.Ja taka prosbe przekazalam mu przez polskie wydawnictwo tej ksiazki.To jest wsapaniala ksiazke,praktycznie encyklopedia eugeniki.Polecam

  7. Pingback: Professor Marianne H. Skanland’s Discourse at Anti-Barnevernet Protest in Oslo June 11th 2016 — Delight in Truth | Blog de albina

    •   
      Mike, about electing people who are more alert and less caught up in beliefs without evidence, I coudn’t agree more.

      Informing current politicians, however, is another matter. They will not listen, say they cannot “enter into individual cases”, claim they cannot know what is true – although they have every possibility of reading all the documents and speaking to all witnesses, since the family will usually be more than willing to give them access. Attacked families and their helpers have been a steady stream of people writing and speaking to politicians about Barnevernet for at least 30 years. One or two very rare politicians try to mobilise their colleagues but do not get anywhere. If they persist, they are criticised by their party (doesn’t matter which one), thrown out of the party’s list of eligible people in the next election, taken off various committees, overwhelmed by serious-sounding and apparently reliable “information” about how good and reliable Barnevernet is.
         Many who want Barnevernet reformed still go to politicians, try to get seminars and public discissions off the ground. The authorities only use such discissions and conferences as delaying tactics.

  8.   
    Chris has asked me an important question: Why is it that so many who are horrified at the way Barnevernet acts in Norway, see it as analogous to Nazism, or even as the same in some way? And what does it have to do with the policies of forced sterilisation practiced here and elsewhere in parts of the 20th century? (I hope I have understood your question right, Chris?)

    It is a huge question, Chris, and I can just suggest some parts of an answer. It seems at least as difficult to answer as the perennial question of the causes of the first world war (an often presented question at long, written history exams at university). To answer this one satisfactorily I think one must go into cultural history, the history of ideas, as well as into political history, in a way I certainly do not have the knowledge, insight or versatility to do. So I can only try to give a very small part of an answer.

    Nazi beliefs about human populations stem from German biology of the 19th century. They were wayward ideas, but Germany was world leading in biology and its influence was huge. So there were sterilisation bouts in many countries: the Nordic ones, Britain, USA (particularly in Virginia, as far as I remember?). In America such beliefs found rather fertile soil because of slavery and the whole racial issue that went with it. In Norway, forced sterilisation was not particularly introduced or practiced by the German occupants in WW2, it sprung from medical and social-work circles and several decades.
    The biologically motivated ideas are different in origin from the beliefs of what we “are like” coming from behaviorist psychology – this latter “understanding” is that we are just mechanical products of our environment, without a free will or a possibility of deliberation and consideration and choice.
    But both ways of thinking have in common the idea that they have reached a huge, SCIENTIFIC insight which enables them and entitles them to take action to PERFECT the world – including the population – in a way they think scientifically based. They want(ed) to eliminate “unhealthy”, “unnatural” variants, to “improve” the population by enforced selective breeding, just like it is done in breeding animals and cultivating plants.

    This way of selecting can either be carried out by simply killing off those seen as dysfunctional or harmful (like the Nazis did with Jews, Gypsies, mentally retarded, and physically handicapped people). Or it can be done by preventing them from breeding new generations.
    Or, if you are a behaviorist (like CPS workers and other adherents of that type of psychology), you believe that the milieu – the environment – is all, so you think you can freely form babies, even some older children, by placing them in a “healthier” enironment than the “tainted” one of their parents. Notice how the Danish in particular ramble on about “social inheritance” (social arv), which they think society must “work hard” to rid children from disadvantaged backgrounds of. And they think they must do that NOT by cooperating with the children’s common sense, but by changing their environment, especially by taking them away from their parents, because since the “environment” is what has caused or will cause unfortunate devlopment, the parents, being the most important part of the environment, are the most harmful of all.

    When so many people observing the way the CPS carries on, see it as a continuation of the sterilisations and also see a similarity to the Nazi atrocities, I think maybe the important common factor is just this practice of ravaging other people’s lives, deciding over them, not listening intelligently to anything they say, in the part of their lives which is most important of all here on earth: being able to keep together with one’s family and stick it out regardless of troubles, regardless of imperfections, regardless of what others think would be more “advantageous”.

  9. Thank you for a very thoughtful answer, Marianne.

    It appears I am not as good in American history as I thought. I looked up the numbers of sterilizations comparing Virginia with those in Norway. I am not in any way condoning such behavior by comparing. I only thought it was an interesting question. One may go to these links to see what I discovered:

    http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/VA/VA.html

    and

    http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2003-04-09-haavie-en.html

    “Zaremba drew a parallel between the Scandinavian sterilization policy and the policies of the Third Reich, though he drew attention to a basic ideological difference: In Germany it was the Nazis that had shown the most willingness to cleanse themselves of “genetic inferiority”and “socially inferior” types, while in Scandinavia it was the Welfare State that had been the driving force behind the policy of eugenic cleansing: A combination of strong social conformity, racist thinking on eugenics, a concern for the public purse, and a nearly boundless belief in the progressive potential of science and social planning had made sterilization by force an attractive tool of policy. ”

    From what I have read here:

    http://polishrights.com/?page_id=1479

    another question arises, Marianne.

    As your comment only brought so many other questions to mind, I will only ask this one for now and perhaps pester you with a few more questions after that:

    Are there any journalists like Maciej Zaremba Bielawski in Norway today? There must be journalists in that educated country who understand the implications of the current CPS and are writing about it. Maybe their voices are being drummed out by the myriad of information that is this “Age of Information.” Are there any with so loud a voice as Zaremba?

    •   
      A little more about your links and remarks above, Chris:

      I have now read through Siri Haavie’s long article (http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2003-04-09-haavie-en.html). I had read Haave and Broberg & Roll-Hansen, whom she refers to, but didn’t know about her article. It is good and well documented, and a clear argument, so it goes into my list of informative literature.

      About numbers: I agree that they are important, and comparative numers too. When the total number of sterilisations in Norway for a certain period is given as 40,000, Haavie criticises that, saying that about 95% were actually more or less voluntary, the number of clearly involuntary ones a little over 2,000. It has to do with the way the law was formulated and the relation between sterilisation and contraception. In very many cases sterilisation took place of women who already had a large number of children and were very poor, although Haavie is aware that in some such cases the woman may have been under pressure to let herself be sterilised; still, most welcomed it. She points to the fact that a more modern law has led to a very large number of voluntary sterilisations, as a method of family planning when people have had the number of children they want.

      The involuntary sterilisations were supposed to be of people who were strongly mentally deficient and could therefore not understand the implications of the procedure, nor take care of children.

      Haavie says little or nothing, though, about the fact that some young women / girls were kept locked up in mental hospitals and given the clear message that they would not be released unless they agreed to be sterilised. This line of reasoning was justified by those in power, medical doctors and others, defining “unrestrained sexual behaviour” as tantamount to “mental deficiency”. This kind of puritanism has been used especially against the “taters” (our Gypsy-like travelling population), to avoid being accused of straight racism. The same argument was used in Sweden in the 1980s and 90s against Gun Olsson, too, when the CPS took her and her husbaznd’s children into care. The Olssons were said to be subnormal, Gun because she had had affairs very young, but their lawyer, who was Siv Westerberg, had them sit an ordinary intelligence test and they were both completely normal. (There is something about the case here: Siv Westerberg: “Norway and Sweden – where inhuman rights prevail” http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7146 .)

      Haavie does not discuss the cases in which an assessment of a woman’s “mental capacity” etc has been superficial, moralistic, but she does refer to statements making it clear that in many instances sterilisation was done on social grounds, perhaps not with any clear consent, and has been used as an alternative to or later supplanted by taking-into-care.

      So Haavie’s argument is interesting and probably partly right, but I think she may be too complacent / un-inquiring about whether “voluntary” really meant voluntary.

      • This is interesting, Marianne. It explains to me why these sterilizations are not discussed with any concern in Norway. Also, I had seen a 60 thousand number somewhere which is substantially different than the number you mention here. It’s not important here for now, but I bet it was important for the extra 20 if they existed.

        I wasn’t aware of the sterilizations done in my own Virginia before you mentioned it and I guess I could relate the two to some degree. As Norway’s sterilizations were done on a national scale, there is a difference.

        You have done your research and I, for one, appreciated it Marianne. Your comment shows how important one word can be. A word like “voluntary” or another like “involuntary” can be used in a certain way that is too complacent. It happens all of the time in our world, as none of us perfectly speak any language. Some would argue, I think, that language itself is not always perfect. These are small but points with large implications. A propagandist will use the language in a certain way to make the listeners think just the opposite of the intention.

        I have always been a detail guy. I guess it is in my Germanic genes. It is funny, though. I will go back and proofread what I have just written and I will spot easy mistakes and typos. Sometimes, I will not spot them. Sometimes, I am in too big of a hurry to proofread everything. You are a bit like me I think in this way because several times you have made a comment here and then have noticed a mistake in grammar or spelling and it does not look at you kindly.

        Thank you for your contribution, Marianne. It is always appreciated.

  10. Ciesze sie Chris ze dostrzegles genialnosc Zaremby!Jego ksiazki sa fantastycznie dobre.
    Moje przemyslenia na temat inteligencji Norwegow sa takie.Norwegia to efekt 2 selekcji -pozytywnej i negatywnej.Selekcja negatywna dla Norwegii byla wtedy gdy ludzie uciekali z biednego kraju ,bez uczelni wyzszych
    do Ameryki .I tam sa ich potomkowie czyli ci bystrzy i inteligentni .Zostal tu w Norwegii – Knut
    .A selekcja pozytywna to nowa fala emigracji z krajow biednych do Norwegii.Jak trzeba byc bystry zeby z biednej Afryki dostac sie do Norwegii.Docieraja tu najsilniejsi ,najwytrwalsi i najinteligentniejsi.Poczytaj ksiazke Na poludnie od Lampedusy.Wloski dziennikarz podrozuje z uciekinierami z Afryki ,opisuje trudnosci ,ktore musza pokonac.Taka droga to selekcja.
    Zaremba to tez emigrant .Przybyl do Szwecji z Polski jako dziecko pary lekarzy psychiatrow.Jago ojciec to slynny profesor.

  11.  
    Chris on JUNE 13, 2016 @ 6:07 AM:
    “Are there any journalists like Maciej Zaremba Bielawski in Norway today? There must be journalists in that educated country who understand the implications of the current CPS and are writing about it. Maybe their voices are being drummed out by the myriad of information that is this “Age of Information.” Are there any with so loud a voice as Zaremba?”

    There aren’t any that I can think of now. It has to do partly with Norwegian newspapers being so many, meaning each one is very small and has limited resources, so they cannot do what Frankfurter Allgemeine does: have people doing very comprehensive, ACTUAL research over a long time. Really, Stavanger Aftenblad letting Thomas Ergo pursue the “Glasss girl” story over more than a year now recently is very unusual.

    I don’t take note of journalists and editors in any systematic way. The only one I can think of who went into anything related to “our” field in the last 25-30 years, was Hans Kringstad. He works for the newspaper VG, went properly into all the false incest/sex-abuse cases of twenty years ago:
    http://www.vg.no/profil/17337/
    http://www.skup.no/metoderapporter/2007/2007-24%20Incestterapi%20(Verdens%20Gang).pdf
    and systematically exposed all the nonsense of the courts and the “evidence” in many.
    https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Rypdal
    He wrote a very enlightening book about the Bjugn case: “Bjugn-formelen” (there are several other books about it but they are psycho-babble dominated):
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bjugnformeln-historien-jakten-Ulf-Hammern/dp/9197553301
    http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page61/page61.html

    But the book was “strangely” “spirited away” by the publisher, a publisher sort of owned by the trade unions. It was almost immediately after publication “reserved” for the coming sale, and the number of copies a bookseller could order was restricted. (I know the Bjugn-case quite well, and two of the Swedes I have collaborated with, were active for the defense. A palpably innocent man was found not guilty by the jury, but that was clearly against the wishes of the law judges. There is even more telling details about the case than what Kringstad could reveal.)
      
      

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