My social media feeds have been inundated this past month with videos of Christian carols by the band Pentatonix. The first time I saw the Pentatonix video of the carol song “Mary, Did You Know” I was impressed by the vocal talent in the production, but something didn’t seem right. They did not strike me as portraying the image of the average evangelical Christian artist. It is almost unheard for a Christian artist to be promoted on the world’s stage like this.
Well, thank God for the common grace of Google.
While at least one member of the band publicly claims to be a Christian, two other members are openly gay. Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda. All this at the same time as taking advantage of the evangelical Christian market which may be their top target in selling albums.
But, hey, it’s a free country and anyone can do what they want as long as they do not break the law and/or hurt others, as the old progressive principle holds. Delight in Truth does not have a problem with Pentatonix and their rebellion against the moral code of Scripture, as much as with the Evangelical crowd which claims to be under the authority of Scripture and who loves Pentatonix.
Dear Christians, if you find the Word of God as inspired and authoritative, please stop buying, promoting, liking, posting, and applauding these Pentatonix videos. Would you listen daily to an openly gay pastor who promotes the LGBTQ lifestyle and preaches “really good?” If no, then why promote Pentatonix?
The false gospel of acceptance has made its way into the church via music and artistic expression, and now we are reaping the consequences. Scripture is being challenged and disregarded on the issue of sexual morality, and especially homosexuality. Large churches like the Presbyterian Church USA and Evangelical Lutheran Church have blown up over the issue, and the Anglican Church (80 million members) is next.
As time goes by, more and more churches will concede and accept into membership and even ordain those who identify with and practice the LGBTQ lifestyle in open rebellion to Scripture. On the other hand it has to be this way. As we get closer to the Second Coming of Christ the warning given by apostle Peter stands true: “that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.”
We must stand true to Scripture. We must stand with those who hold it as authoritative, and not with those who rebel against.
Delight in Truth 
Reblogged this on Christian Heritage News.
Link does not work.
Hi Mike, I no longer blog at WordPress, so it might be due to deleting my blogs.
Reblogged this on nightlightblogdotcom and commented:
Good points. Do we believe the Bible to be God’s Word, or not?
I recently discovered Pentatonix and have been inspired by their beautiful renditions of especially their Christmas music. I could not care less if they are gay or straight, black or white, tall or short, etc. We are all made in the image of God and he has given this group a wonderful sacred gift. Enough legalism! Christ is all about love, not judgmentalism and condemnation. That was the Pharisees’ gig.
I think you should read the Scriptures again. God is all about being judgmental and condemning those who break His Laws. Scripture clearly states that a man shall not lay with another man as he does a woman. Not sure how much more clear cut that can be. False prophets will lead you astray. There arent any Scriptures that read, a man shall not be black, nor any that state a man shall not grow taller than six feet, or a man shall not quit growing before he is six feet. Use your mind, with all the current battles being waged against Judaeo-Christian values, why is this group being exalted by those waging the battles against Christianity? May God bless you and guide you through the darkness.
Read this and agree with everything you said. It cannot get more clear cut than what is said in Bible. Also, Scripture says Sodom and Gomorrah was burnt down for this very reason.
Just wanted to add that false prophets lead people astray, but that’s not what is primarily mentioned about them in Scriptures. They are mentioned as a result of people who already decided to leave the truth and revel in darkness- 2 Timothy 4:3-4. So the audiences of these false gospel preachers are not unsuspecting spiritual victims but the very cause of such people to come to fame.
Well TD I have 2 sons who are over 6 feet tall should I condemn them too. All of you people who feel the need to be bible pushers need to go back under the rock you came from and emerged into the real world the now . I just can not believe how detrimental people are they days…. A BEAUTIFUL SONG IS A BEAUTIFUL SONG So get over it. They may love someone like themselves but they are not killing anyone stop being judgmental you will one day be judged yourself
Can you give me the exact place in the bible where it says these thing. Just wanting to make sure.
That is rich! What ever happened to the 10 commandments? Apparently they have dropped off the radar with Christians. Look at who they vote for and support. Thou shalt not lie. And divorce? Check all the references to that in scripture. Not to mention many, many references that aren’t even observed. Finally, thou shalt not bear false witness. Nothing is more apparent than that with the Christian community and even this post. May god bless you, and guide you out of the terrible darkness you have fallen into.
TD… Are you a sinner? Do you sin? Is their sin greater than yours? Or, are you perfect in Christ? Did Jesus die for you? Did He die for them? Tell me about forgiveness. Tell me about how God’s grace is abounding. What is grace? It’s pure gift that cannot be earned or bought. Something we are all not worthy of, but given none the less out of love as He chooses…not you. We are called to love one another. The old testament said Love your neighbor as yourself… But Jesus changed that when He said “Love others as I have loved you”.
How many times can you be forgiven for your sin? God’s grace is abounding. How many times must you forgive your brother?
Shall we continue on into the New testament with faith in Christ? Or live in the Old Testament under law of wrath without salvation?
The gifts Pentatonix have were given them by God! Should they not use them for His Glory.? You have no idea the relationship they have with God! We need to spend more time drawing people to God by our love. Absolutely God has laws and the purpose of the laws were to show us our sin and that WE ALL have need of a savior. God chose to fulfill His law by coming down in the flesh to die for us all that we may live eternally with Him. That is how much He Loves the World! Remember John 3:16. God knows where each member of Pentatonix is spiritually, He created them too! Our job is to pray for them. At least two of the members are Christian. Don’t you think God would use them to minister to those who don’t know Christ! To God Be the Glory!!
Bible lots of strange stuff related to that passage in the context of it’s day. Would you be ok with slavery? Owning women? Selling your children?
Stop making such a big deal about what two consenting, modern, free adults do in their bedroom. It is truly none of your business. It is their business, and theirs alone.
If you choose LGBT issues over loving others, oh my brother, you are in for a very, very big surprise when you meet God. You go ahead and judge others by whom they love….I want NO part of that pseudo ‘christianity’. You just got no standing according to Jesus, man. None. Zippo. Zilch. You don’t follow Paul, you follow Jesus (well, I can assume I suppose). Take the log out of your eye, before you remove the speck in mine.
I love their music. I love their message of love. Why do we let secular groups capture the market on loving others through song? Maybe that’s the real question real Christians who are trying desperately to love others need to be asking.
Amen brother! U r so right we are to love them & pray for them & support the efforts to see that the offer of Jesus eternal salvation does not pass them up! While we’re obedient to God’s word we can lovingly share with them the love of God & the alternative in which God in his own words have prepared a eternal lake of fire for
those who by there own choice seek pervertion as they sing to an empty holy room & sadly the wicked minded that listens & is supporting there homosexual choice which leads only to destruction. I hope God can reach out to use there talents to be a blessing to others instead misleading many to think that it’s OK to love & let love.
Oh boy. Now there’s a misguided statement. Read Cardinal Benedict’s letter to the faithful about how poorly the Catholic Church has handled LGBTQ individuals. The fact of the matter is that every time God puts something different as a test to the community, Christians seem to get lost in their own self-rightiousness. When there were sick and maimed people, the “faithful” condemned them. With the African Americans, religious zealots treated them no differently. So many seem to completely set aside the real commandments – Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. And Commandment 9 – Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness. Do you really know what causes differences in nature that you don’t understand? And scripture doesn’t condemn homosexuality in the way you believe. A man should not leave his wife for another man, as that is an abomination. Why? Because he is, by nature a heterosexual who has made a commitment to his wife. The nuances are all there. But you may, in your desire to not look inward and take stock of your own life, turn your arrows to those you do not understand. I know God personally. I have had a very clear sign. And I stand in pure faith as to who I am, without doubt. I have little doubt you are a faithful man, and love God. Try putting on the mind of Christ rather than thinking like a flawed man. What would Jesus do? As that, and you will know your own truth. Jesus, but the way, never said a word about homosexuality. He embraced the sinful without condemnation. You have a remarkably talented and inspiring group that sang a beautiful tribute. And there is even a question about promoting the song? Seriously? I feel a deep sadness in my heart for those who have written their words of judgement here.
wow, you might as well have slapped Jesus in the face with your last sentence “to think that’s it’s OK to love and let love.”. No you’re right, Jesus would just be all over stamping out love wherever he found it. Wow dude….read the red stuff again
Genesis 19King James Version (KJV)
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord:
28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
Amen.
hey a e tolleson- THANK YOU! I’m with you; we are not to judge others, that’s God’s job.
What does it mean to share the Gospel? It means to speak the TRUTH and WARN mankind to repent of his sins and to believe in Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection and be born again, before Jesus, the JUDGE, returns to judge the world of its sins. God is LOVE, but He is also HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!!!!! To often, man wants to ignore the truth that God has WRATH!!!! He wants mankind to be saved by GRACE through FAITH, and not by our works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) What does it mean to be saved? From what is God saving us ? He is saving us from HIS WRATH to come. Every human being alive will be in one of 2 categories. It won’t be black and white or young or old. It will be saved or unsaved! Everyone of us will either receive God’s mercy or His wrath!! We cannot receive both!! God has warned repeatedly through His WORD what is sin and that we must repent and follow after Christ. I Corinthians 6:9- 11 says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (homosexual), nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such WERE some of you: but ye ARE washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” None of us is to be wise in our own eyes!!Instead, we are to FEAR the Lord!!! The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 1:7)
Proverbs 3:7 says, “Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.” Those who fear the Lord will love the Lord, and those that love the Lord will obey the Lord. Love speaks the truth and tells souls the truth that Jesus is coming back to judge. If we don’t share the Gospel about the clear judgment of God, then we harming them as well as oureselves, because God holds us accountable, if we don’t speak up. Ezekiel 3:16-21 says, “And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.” Satan wants Christians to shut up, because he wants man to not be free of sin but to remain bound in sin and shame, whereas Jesus came to set us free. I thank the Lord for His grace and mercy in my life. Truthfully, none deserve the grace of God, but because of the Love of God, JESUS DIED on the cross to set us free. But only those who believe in Him, evidenced by their fruit, will receive redemption. If you are not redeemed, you will receive condemnation from God’s Word. We need to ask ourselves, “If there is danger ahead, do I need to be warned? God says, YES!!! This is not about talent. It is about the Truth!! If I evet meet the members of Pentatonix and do not share the Gospel with all of them, how can I say I truly love them or even love God?? We are not to be menpleasers but to please God!! Colossians 3:22 says, “Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.” It is our calling and mission to share the Truth in love, but it is still man’s choice to receive it or not, but just know the end result of man’s final choice, will be redemption or condemnation, which means eternal life in heaven or eternity in hellfire, where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth. There is no purgatory as Catholicism falsely teaches. Luke 13:28 says, “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.”
I also love the talent of this group, BUT this article is not about legalism. It’s addressing the blatantly sinful lifestyle and actual promotion of it by some of their members. That is just pure rebellion against God; choosing to go their own way and never mind that their lifestyles grieve God. It also is not about judgement, it’s discernment! The Word doesn’t say “Anything goes! And don’t judge!”. We ourselves are sinners, so none of us can throw a stone, but this group should NOT be promoted in churches. How confusing and conflicting of scripture to the congregation.
I know this is late but why do you guys have to argue about these stuff. People have their own opinion. If their members are gay, personally me as A Christian don’t support them. But why do you guys argue about what The Bible says.
Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:32.
A. E. Tolleson, you don’t care about the Truth, read the whole chapter. Your thinking sound logic, loving and inclusive, but IT IS unscriptural.
Agree! God Bless You !
God is also a judge! He will judge us for our actions. Correcting of our wrongs is love.
I truly think that the post is egotistical…. I happen to love the voices in Hallelujah which has drawn me to listen to this group. I think this world is to too judgmental and God does not disgrace us if we care for someone who is not traditional. I am a married (to a man) woman Mother of 4 who thinks people need to get real and stop putting down people for what they’re choices are. I personally think the author of this article is jealous that they do not have the talent, the voice nor the fame the the group Pentatonix has. Stop hating on things that are not what we grew up with and except some things that happen now in this world if not then I feel sorry for you. You will never grow to ful potential you are stuck in a past that is gone. This group is beautiful in every form of the word vocally and artistically keep doing what you do many of us here appreciate it even if others love in the Stone Age God loves you for who you are
Now that you’ve given us your opinions, can you provide scripture to support all that you’ve said?
I am not worried about the scriptures. I think people that think like you make the world sad, make women afraid and make men feel awesome. Watched it happen with a family member and it made me feel like a cult. I know where I will be when I pass and it will in a kingdom with me.y Lord. My Lord Jesus Christ. I am expressing my thoughts and feelings as all of you are and this is allowed. Thank you God bless
How about you do you know where you will be with all your judgement
Janina, if you are truly not worries about scriptures as you clearly stated, I fear you will not be in the presence of the Lord and Author of the scriptures that you so blatantly deny. I’m sorry for you.
So, asking you for scriptural support is ‘judgmental?! Oh my….
Now, you claim you are not worried about the scriptures. That tells me you came here to climb on your soapbox and pass judgment, ‘I truly think that the post is egotistical’ , you do the very thing you accuse others of – pass judgment. You claim we need to stop putting people down for what their choices are – so you have no problem with sin? Who is your ‘god’?
Any true follower of Christ will speak out against sin and warn sinners to flee the wrath to come. The ‘feel good’ god of many is all lovey dovey, sadly, the attributes of the God of the Bible are foreign to most. Most create a god in their minds that’s all love and they neglect the holiness of the Most High. God will punish all who blatantly sin against Him.
Lyn
“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,” (2 Timothy 4:3, ESV)
When you stated that you do not care about Scripture you revealed that you are not saved and are following a false Jesus. Repent!
This is love!!! We have to speak the ttuth!!! If we tell men the opposite of God’s Word and don’t warn men to repent, that in no way would be loving.
“All of you people who feel the need to be bible pushers need to go back under the rock you came from and emerged into the real world the now”
I must ask, how much do you value the word of God? It is obvious your emotions are running a muck. You attack others here based on those emotions because you like Pentatonix. This isn’t even about their music. From the article – “While at least one member of the band publicly claims to be a Christian, two other members are openly gay. Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda.” Let me point this out again, – “What are the advantages and disadvantages of being one of two gay members of Pentatonix?
There are actually more advantages than disadvantages. I think it’s a great thing. I love that our fans are so accepting of it. It’s amazing; it makes me feel so close to them.
Some people might say that being openly gay in the music business might deter you from having a career, but I don’t think that’s true. My career, as a queer person, has been pretty successful. We’re still on our way up, but I think we’ve been doing an amazing job. I love the support. I’m proud.” source – https://thegavoice.com/mitch-grassi-of-pentatonix-on-being-gay-in-the-cool-a-cappella-band/
If they want to be homosexual, that’s on them. But, if they claim to be Christian and still practice this abomination, then those who belong to Christ must call them out and warn the elect of God.
Neither God nor Jesus themselves have condemned homosexuality. Our Lord has said himself that besides loving God above all things, loving our neighbors is the most important commandment. How can it be a sin if these people are genuinely happy and in love as much as any straight couple? How can you tell me that this is an abomination? There are rude atheists, rude heterosexuals, rude homosexuals, and rude Christians. Why does who they love matter? They are still the person they always were. And how do you think that makes them feel, when Christians go around saying that they are sinful for being who they are and saying that they’re going to hell? We are supposed to be the light of the world, helping others get brighter, but instead we are extinguishing their lights.The Bible was written thousands of years ago by humans, imperfect humans. Humans who have denied basic rights for people because of their gender or the color of their skin. Women have been degraded in the Bible, but look at how we are respected as men are now.
So tell me, if your child was homosexual/transgender, and you raised them as a Christian, and that child believed in God, when they come out to you, will you say that they are not Christian because of who they love? When they have not murdered stolen or committed adultery? Would you stop buying them clothes, food, or supporting them in every way? That is what is article is telling you to do to your brothers and sisters. We are told to give pity to those in prison who have sinned and you can still not forgive someone for loving.
I am responding from the computer at my workplace, so my moniker will look different…….
to ‘don’t’ – you claim this “Neither God nor Jesus themselves have condemned homosexuality.” You could not be more wrong! From Leviticus 18:22- “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Abomination means detestable, loathsome. Same sex is despicable to a thrice holy God, as His word clearly states. Now, read Matthew 15:19,20 – For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:These are the things which defile a man” Christ himself taught what ‘defiles’ or makes unclean. Take note of ‘fornications’ -This includes ANY sex outside of what God designed between a husband and a wife – including two men or two women engaged in same sex sex.
Now, stating that homosexuals ‘love’ is another error on your part. From Romans 1:27, ” And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another”. The phrase ‘burned in their lust’ describes what homosexuals base their sin on, and it isn’t love. This is a raging, unnatural drive that they have to ‘satisfy’ their raging sexual appetite. This lust is not normal at all, it is a longing, a craving like no other.
Take note of this, ‘leaving the natural use’. Homosexuals turn from what is natural, or ‘according to nature, inborn’. At birth, God instills in each one the ‘natural way’, it is when that truth is suppressed and rejected the homosexual follows after what goes against nature.
You apparently have no clue to the truth found in God’s word concerning sexual sin, particularly homosexual sin. Everything you stated is nothing more than your opinion, which does not come close to God’s actual truth.
The bible commands sinners to repent of their wickedness and believe on Christ, may God cause you to see your wickedness of defending what He calls an abomination.
Ma’am I do have respect for you that you stick up for your faith, but I do not appreciate your condescension nor you inability to answer the questions I have asked you. I am sorry that I had not found Leviticus 18:22 beforehand but have since researched it extensively (and have seen that it is a controversial topic). I am not suggesting that God is wrong, rather I think that words have gotten lost in translation.
When you say that LGBTQ+ people do not love, you, ma’am, could not be more wrong. I have seen kindness and compassion from every sexuality. Being homosexual does not mean that it is some sin that develops in you, rather, you were born homosexual. I have seen people try to deny their sexuality because they were scared to be themselves. It is not lust, but love. If homosexuals only wanted their own gender for sexual actions, and shallow pleasure, why would they build relationships? If they are “burning with lust”, why would they get married and adopt kids? If they are like you believe they are, they would go around to person to person, only satisfying their lust. So no, it is not lust, it is love.
I would like to remind you that because you don’t agree with the way a person acts, that doesn’t mean that they are terrible people. Pentatonix have made beautiful songs that make you know what music is about. You must have friend that are of a different political party, but do you damn and shun them?
Your not agreeing with homosexuality is fine because everybody has a right to their opinions. What is not alright is the fact that you condemn people that you don’t know because of who they love.
to ‘don’t’-
How is quoting the word of God verbatim ‘lost in translation’?!?
Read it again, ‘Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.’ Now, let’s get the original Hebrew – shakab- to lie down;zakar- male; ishshah- woman, wife, female; toebah – abomination: source – http://biblehub.com/hebrew/8441.htm
The only way you can misinterpret this is if you twist the truth to ‘fit’ your own opinions.
As for love, I didn’t say they don’t love, God did. They ‘burn in their lust’, that’s what these perversions are rooted in and based on, according to God Almighty.
You have no desire for God’s truth, you only come here to push forth a homosexual agenda that is in direct violation with God and His truth. You need to repent of all of your vileness and plead with God to save you, or else you will face eternal wrath. Christ died and rose from the dead to reconcile sinners back to a holy God-a God who will NOT tolerate any sin of any kind – no exceptions, no excuses. Your human wisdom is worthless when compared to God’s truth, which will stand the test of time.
Here is what the Bible says about the heart of every man/woman, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is the mind, thoughts, intentions, will – the whole ‘inner man’. Notice what it says, ‘deceitful’, which means full of trickery. Desperately wicked means ‘incurable, sick. This is the case with every person ever born, they are depraved in their thinking which leads to comments like the ones you make. You defend and excuse what God calls sin. Then you attempt to blame it on faulty translations, even though you were given multiple verses. Here’s another one for you, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. ” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
This isn’t whether or not I ‘agree’ with homosexuality, this is what God says about it; and this musical group claims to be ‘Christian’. Read the post before you go off on a tangent. They can sin to their hearts content, but be made aware, they are NOT Christians and God WILL judge all who continue on in rebellious, willful sin.
You can call me wicked and “vile” but you do not have the right to judge and damn those who you do not know. You do not have the right to say who is and who isn’t Christian. You do not have the right to say that I have no desire for God’s truth. These are what God does, not you.
You have failed to answer any moral questions that I have asked you and proceded to be condecending beyond belief. God gave us free will for a reason, but it is not to hate those who obviously do not undersand and use your religion as excuse to hate and as a way to bully people. I am fully aware of what the Bible says(seeing as you have reminded me ever so gracfully many, many times) but seeing as it was written THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, yes, I do believe that something could have gotten ‘lost in translation’. It was written by humans, who have all sinned.
‘Burning in lust’. Interesting. People ‘burning in lust’ do not fight for the right to get married when they could have sexual relations with anyone. People ‘burning in lust’ do not make room for children in their lives. People ‘burning in lust’ would not cry if their spouse had died because they could ust find another to satisfy their lust. So tell me one more time that they are burning in lust because that proves tht you have never met a homosexual before while looking at them through eyes of love. We are called to love, not to judge those who have sinned, because we all have. I love and trust God with all of my heart, yet you say that I do not desire God’s truth. Once again, you do not decide who is a Christian and you cannot ignore the faith of myself and other Christians who support LGBTQ+ rights.
Pentatonix has created beautiful music of which no one can deny. Does the fact that they ‘sinned for being homosexual’ defile their beautiful music? Do they not have the right to live life or believe in the Savior? Are you denying them human rights?
Seeing as I am ‘wicked’ and ‘vile’ already, I may as well say that you repel me. Christianity is forgiveness and sharing God’s love, yet you have the audacity to condemn others in ways only the Lord should. Besides not answering numerous questions, you have ignored that the main fact is that Jesus has said that besides loving God, loving other is the most important thing.
“You can call me wicked and “vile” but you do not have the right to judge and damn those who you do not know.” First of all, I only repeated what the Bible says about ALL of mankind – “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:7
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23
Acts 8:22
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Isaiah 1:16
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil” If you read the bible you see God calls sinners wicked, evil, etc.
The bible commands the elect of God to examine fruit. You cannot be a practicing homosexual and a Christian, as the word of God plainly teaches – “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Cor. 6:9-11. Take note of verse 11 -‘such WERE some of you’, that is a past tense verb, meaning those who belong to Christ no longer partake in the sins mentioned in the prior verses.
You also claim ” God gave us free will for a reason” – can you provide scriptural support for this?
What questions have I not answered?
As for ‘burning with lust’, your problem is not with me, it is with God. He is the one who said what drives the homosexual. Your refusal to believe the Bible is evident. You want to cherry pick the verses that make you feel comfortable in your sins, but you gnash your teeth at the verses that expose sin for what it is and sinners for what we all are unless God intervenes with His saving grace.
You repeatedly accuse me of ‘judging’, yet, in doing so, you judge me! I give God’s word and the definitions of meanings, how is that ‘judging’? I would recommend you do a word study on ‘judging’ before you accuse others of doing what you yourself are guilty of.
“Christianity is forgiveness and sharing God’s love, yet you have the audacity to condemn others in ways only the Lord should. Besides not answering numerous questions, you have ignored that the main fact is that Jesus has said that besides loving God, loving other is the most important thing.” It is obvious you’ve ignored the commands throughout scripture concerning repentance, sin, wrath, etc.
The gospel of Christ isn’t that God loves, it is a command to repent and believe on the atoning sacrifice of Christ, to be reconciled through Him to God. “From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matt. 4:17
God loves His elect, those He chooses to save. Do remember this, “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated”. God does not love everyone, you’ve created a ‘god’ of your own imagination. You haven’t a clue how vile mankind is, and you haven’t a clue who the God of the Bible is. You give no scriptural support for anything you state, yet you condemn me for speaking God’s truth and accuse me falsely. Again, your argument is not with me, it is with God and what He says about sin, sinners, wrath, etc.
If you wish to continue to engage, then support your views with Scripture.
Let’s address this from your previous comment, “The Bible was written thousands of years ago by humans, imperfect humans.” – the bible proves you wrong, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” 2 Timothy 3:16. Notice what that verse says, ‘ALL scripture is given by inspiration of who? God. You want to argue in favor of homosexuality, and you want to discredit God and His truth. When His truth is given, you react by denying, gnashing your teeth, and falsely accusing. The Bible calls homosexuality a sin- God commands sinners to repent and believe on Christ. Here are the scripture references – 1 Cor. 6:9-11; Lev. 18:22, Matt. 15:19-20; Acts 17:30.
Take note of this, from Romans 5:6, “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.” Notice what the bible calls sinners here, ‘ungodly’. This is all of mankind. Now, look at Genesis 6:5, “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” That is a picture of EVERY human heart. How would you like every thought you’ve ever had played on a big screen for all to see? Would you be okay with that? Why or why not?
Humans who have denied basic rights for people because of their gender or the color of their skin. -What does that have to do with homosexuality?
Women have been degraded in the Bible, but look at how we are respected as men are now. – Can you show some verses that prove this to be true?
So tell me, if your child was homosexual/transgender, and you raised them as a Christian, and that child believed in God, when they come out to you, will you say that they are not Christian because of who they love? -First of all, IF my child was truly born again by God, they would NOT be homosexual/transgender. They would know what genuine repentance is and would flee from those sins. So your question isn’t even valid.
When they have not murdered stolen or committed adultery? Would you stop buying them clothes, food, or supporting them in every way? – My children are sinners, like me. The difference between them and me is God’s grace, which has done a supernatural work in me. So, even though they are sinners, I still love them, I still provide for them, and I still do all God expects me as a parent to do.
here is an excellent meditation and reminder for the Lord’s people – https://youtu.be/qaac6cK10Cs
Homosexuality is a sin, BUT it isn’t the ‘worst sin’, nor is it an unforgivable sin if repented of….
To Lyn/ unworthy1/whatever you are calling yourself now
I have a few questions. That’s it.
1) Do you think people choose to be homosexual?
2) Do you believe Donald Trump is a Christian?
3) What is God’s purpose for Christians?
It matters little what I think…what does God’s word say?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. The word ‘fornications’ in verse 19 comes from the Greek “porneia” and means the following…
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman;
Sexual sin, including homosexuality, is birthed in the heart of the sinner. Heart is from the Greek ‘kardia’ and is defined as…
2b1) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours
2b2) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence
2b3) of the will and character
2b4) of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions
This lust is acted out by choice as the sinner pursues to satisfy their sexual deviant behavior. All sin is chosen by the sinner, and all sinners love darkness more than light. They will never come to the light because they do not want their sins exposed {see John 3:19}. So, God makes it clear- homosexuality is a choice. If this isn’t enough, go to Romans 1:27a, “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another”. The homosexual male leaves the ‘natural’ use, meaning ‘inborn’; at birth God instills the natural way in all. Notice they ‘leave’ the natural use, from the Greek word aphiēmi meaning, ‘disregard, depart, desert wrongfully, abandon’. With that said, it becomes clear there is a choice/decision made by the homosexual to turn away from the natural and pursue what is not natural.
Donald Trump displays no evidence of being born again by God at this present time.
God’s purpose for Christians is to walk worthy, run the race accordingly, fix our minds upon the things of God and not of the world, be the salt and light, proclaim Christ and His Gospel and warn sinners to flee the wrath to come. The elect of God are to mortify sin and live a life worthy of the calling we have received. I cannot list every verse, but I will suggest reading Colossians 3.
One more thing, you started off with “To Lyn/ unworthy1/whatever you are calling yourself now” I am not sure why you chose to be disrespectful over my moniker and I don’t really care. There are two choices you can address me as ….either ‘lyn’ or ‘unworthy1’. That is easy enough isn’t it?
Janina – In your response “I think” appears 5 times. People are here to see what the “Word of God” says, not what Janina thinks. FYI the statement “I think” is typically proof that someone has a large ego because they value their own opinion over everyone else’s, and in your case you value, and you expect others to value, your opinion over what God despises. Maybe try applying the Word of God to your statements and thoughts by starting them off with “The Word of God says” backed by scripture if you wish to comment on someone’s translation of what the Word of God says. Otherwise keep your worldly opinion of Godly things to yourself and ask the only one and true living God for clarity because currently, you are blinded and attempting to influence others when you cannot see. “Don’t” – Maybe you should try actually reading the Bible instead of listening to people and what they say about the Bible. You have been mislead and it is clear in your response that this is the case.
hey I think your not understanding anything! The author is NOT jealous! He is CLEARLY showing people that the PTX is trash!( Which is VERY TRUE)
You are an unmitigated ass who doesnt know anything!
Good Day sir! If you are a Christian, I would like to point you to the KJV scripture that says “But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation”. (1 Peter 1:15)
you obviously don’t know what talent is. how could you? you don’t have an ounce of it in you. PTX has more talent than you every could. and if you think PTX is trash, then it makes you even worse
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣that’s it…let the butthurt flow through you🤣I suppose I should apologize for my mean, ACCURATE comment. Truth always pisses off the cowards who can’t face it. By the by, genius, nobody said anything about talent but you. That’s how Satan works…just makes you spew hot garbage that has no meaning and nothing to do with the subject at hand. Grow up, kid. Their talent is obvious. Yet, and yet…it doesn’t change the truth. 😉
here’s the ACTUAL truth, when you call someone trash, you’re attacking EVERYTHING about them unless you BE SPECIFIC!!!! Why don’t you grow up and start realizing that i said that they have talent. you trying to be so smart when you say “grow up, kid. their talent is obvious.” the only hot garbage is how dumb you are when you try to tell me to grow up. Here is some more accurate truth. you’re a total moron. but you are right about one thing, to everyone’s surprise, i am a genius. the world is blessed with PTX and the world is cursed with people like you.
Reblogged this on nightlightblogdotcom.
Thank you for the visit and reblog.
That’s food for thought for sure.
Welcome here Wally, and I appreciate the visit.
Reblogged this on Cracked-Pot and commented:
Buyer beware.
My friend in Christ, I like your post. I know the band you reference. They sing a cappella. I found them on YouTube two years ago.
Are we to do the same with those who are gluttons, as well? There goes Tony Gore. How about pride? Gossip? How can we cast the first stone when our own eyes hold many planks?
If you want to discuss a lifestyle of sin, why not? This is more about open rebellion against the Word of God and NOT promoting someone who is PROUD about such rebellion (Pentatonix). That is if you accept the Bible as authoritative.
Welcome here!
I agree that the Bible does indeed tell us that Homosexuality, and the acceptance of Homosexuality is wrong, and agents God. However the Bible does also say to NEVER condemn others!
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” -Romans 8
So one of the points I would like to make is that even though Mitch Grassi, and Scott Hoying are openly gay, that does not mean that the whole band is sportive of this sexuality. Keven ( the Beatboxer of the group) is a Christian, and I’d assume does not approve of Homosexuality. Why I say that it doesn’t mean all members agree with Homosexuality, is because most Christians know that condemnation of another is WRONG! I’m not saying that all members beleave this though. I do not know if Kirsten, of Avi are Christians.
I’m just trying to point out that not everyone supports a person likes, or thinks Homosexuality is right. I will say that you cannot say that just because the Heterosexual people in the group hang with these Homosexuals, mean that they are not Christians. Jesus himself hung around the sinners of the world, be he did not EVER condemn them.
I’m not saying you are condemning, but I’d like to point it out.
By the way check out this article on Keven and how he’s truely a Christian. http://mstarsnews.musictimes.com/articles/14604/20130618/pentatonix-kevin-olusola-christian-talks-negotiating-christianity-world-pop-music.htm
God Bless
Not condemning and promoting are two different things.
not promoting and condemning are two different things either.
I don’t think that this band is to be promoted. However I don’t say they were to be condemned.
You need to look at the verse you quoted. The verse applies to those who are in Christ Jesus who are characterized by walking after the spirit, not homosexual flesh. Those who are outside Christ do not need to be condemned for they are condemned already. See John 3. Now also what about the principle of not being unequally yoked with non-believers. To stand and join in with those in abject rebellion against Christ and the Bible is abhorrent! Why do you feel the need to make excuses and question Christians rather than take a stand for truth? Wake up!
You should add your son’s email to this link so those who want to support other Christians can. Just a thought. 🙂
How can songs that draw us into that sacred Presence that is Christ actively destroy you as a conservative Christian? And how can Pentatonix be a threat to you or anyone? Can any singing group destroy your faith in the Christ who cherishes you and all of us? What can separate us from the love of Christ? Legalism can separate us from the awareness of that Love but God’s relentless love still surrounds and enfolds us.
“How can songs that draw us into that sacred Presence that is Christ actively destroy you as a conservative Christian? ” You are conflating emotionalism with worship.
‘You are conflating emotionalism with worship’. – excellent answer William. The God of the bible is an unknown God to most, discernment is at an all time low. People are looking for an experience, the Bible says we worship God in spirit and in truth.
Not the same. Not all sins are created equal. Even Jesus recognizes that in John 19 11
I am sure you will agree with me that there is a difference between someone killing you in his thoughts and taking a gun and actually doing it.
Look and see if Michelangelo was a devout believer, and yet he was commissioned to paint every inch of the Sistine chapel in the Vatican because of his undeniable talent…only the best for God. Pentatonix are excellent, enjoy them, relax, just like the millions of Christians who marvel at the Sistine Chapel in Rome. Nothing of man is pure, never has been, never will be, there is only Christ.
Excellent point!
AWESOME RESPONSE
I’m gay and I didn’t get a copy of the agenda. What time is brunch?
Furthermore, Paul even classifies this certain sin in a league of it’s own… Romans 1, 26-29
Equal or Unequal, I cant really think of a reason this would provide much implication in my walk… Can you expand on why this should be important to me? I feel all sins are bad to say the least and deter us from experiencing the relationship with Jesus he wanted for us. I hope this doesn’t come out wrong and I don’t offend anyone (btw this is my first blog ever to be a part of – etiquette to follow shortly :))…Positive criticism happily accepted. But the application of severity levels to certain sins seems to only create a hierarchical system where I can rate my righteousness to that of other people, Christians and non-Christians alike. Furthermore, we would need to know Gods “severity-map” on the sins to even be able to think in that manner. My non-christian friends complain hypocrisy as their leading issue toward Christianity; craziness!… its not the idea of a God who has no beginning or end, infinitely loving, who created the whole universe from nothing… all that, and He still wants…nix that, passionately desires a relationship with us. Its not God that causes uneasiness with unbelievers, its the people who are supposed to be demonstrating Gods love. Oh geez, sorry for the book ya’ll…
Focused summary: having certain sins weigh more heavily than others provides a system for us to feel more righteous than others, thereby allowing us a system to invent and convey judgement… And with that judgement, follows a wave of irritated possible-recruits at our hypocrisy.
I promise that the next one I will try to keep it more concise… Peace, Ya’ll – I look forward to discussion and enlightenment.
All sin is sin before a holy God. It is a pharisee who feels more righteous than others because he thinks his goodness will save him. We must look at the entirety of the scriptures.
29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31 He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” Acts 5
Obedience is important to our Holy God. Obedience leads one to turn away from sin. This, as you know, is called repentance. One finds this concept throughout the scriptures. To obey, however, one has to know the truth of God’s Word.
You will only learn the truth through a study of God’s Word.
33 “But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”
This verse has served me well.
I am a teacher in America, ripsimeh. I’ve never had to teach homosexuality to kids. If in America, where are you teaching?
Reseeking, what are your thoughts on apostle Paul classifying sexual sin in a class of its own?
I hope this posts in the right spot, Im a little confused about how this all works… Anyway, Ill figure it out eventually. Thank you for the responses! I am intimidated by everyone’s knowledge and your ability to quote specific bible versus. My responses were ultimately opinion and perfect-world scenarios. The opinions, however, were based on my lifelong (35 years) objectivity and irritation of disconnects within Christianity and the denominations. It just seems like it has gotten out of control chaotic and taken the focus off whats important; the relationship.
Chris: Thank you for the advice and verses. I am in the seeking phase again. Why I chose this site to begin is beyond me 🙂 Over the duration of my life I have been involved in many bible studies. I was raised Lutheran and attended church weekly with midweek studies and eventually confirmation. My life has been chaotic and I believe God has allowed this low point in my life so that I have no alternative except to seek him out again. I am definitely planning on dusting off my bible and getting into the meat and potatoes. When I stumbled on this site I saw some educated posts and decided to embark in discussion about this particular topic and the churches attitude towards homosexuals and abortion, etc. These two topics seem to be hot-topics within the church and it gets everyone’s old-testament fire and brimstone blood to boiling. My bible studies have concluded that not only is this appropriate for loving Christians, but is seemingly ineffective for changing hearts. Setting an example and demonstrating love and acceptance seems so much more persuasive. Anyway, I am just looking for some insight from people more versed in biblical teachings and interpretation to bounce ideas off and work out some issues I have had with Christianity for a while now. Thank you again for the quick responses. You are awesome!
Ripsemeh, thank you for your input! I agree completely with you about the seemingly infectious rate at which the LGBT community seems to be winning acceptance in our country and as a result, Christian values, standards, and cornerstones constructed into our country by our founding forefathers, are quickly being eradicated. It makes me sick to my stomach that its happening and I do feel my “Freedom of Religion” protected amendment is already being compromised.
I am appalled by the teachings of homosexuality in schools! I have never heard of that, where is this happening?
Thanks again!
Delightintruth, I am rereading that portion of Corinthians right now to brush up… BRB
**NOTE: I misread your question and got confused, but I am glad I did! I thought this question was in response to a response I gave you earlier regarding “How do you see some of the episcopalians (and others) fully accepting the LBGTQ with membership rights, access to sacraments, and even ordination in the church?”
Wow, delightintruth, I just got whiplash from that review! 1 Corinthians 5 seemed to touch on, even if only lightly, all the discussions I have participated in on your page… Amazing! Also, this made me finally bust out my bible again and to be honest… it feels pretty great. I love Corinthians and have spent a moderate amount of time reading the books when I was going through my last hardship – 2 Corinthians 12:8-10 is one of my favorite verses.
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
I dont even know where to begin – there is so much content contained within 13 verses.
**Incomplete due to misunderstanding
Let me try this again. I apologize for the clutter.
delightintruth: After reading 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 it does cause me to reexamine my previous post about Gods perspective on sins and if some sins are greater in His eyes. There is a clear delineation that sexual immorality is classified separately from all other sins: “18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.”
As I lack the appropriate theological training to fully decipher and appropriately examine and interpret the rest will be based mostly off personal perception. God created our bodies in his image/design to not only provide a vessel and means of interaction with others, but house the Holy Spirit. The image/design is specific for the carrying out of God’s perfect plan – “The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.” Some of the longest lasting consequences of sin are sexually based (pregnancy, HIV, etc.). This ultimately interferes with God’s plan for your life or at least the extent you will be able to contribute. But this causes me another philosophically based thought: If Gods plan is perfect and He is all-knowing, then He would already know all future sexually impure acts, hence, His plan will ultimately be carried out no matter what… I am getting way over my head here – now I am thinking about if He knew I was going to sin and made me the same way anyway, then was I predestined to make that mistake…
I digress… Sexual interaction is available to most all people as it does not require any external device for it to occur. What I mean is that one does not have to acquire anything besides a partner to perform. Being that it is most likely the most abundant source of sin (not to mention the intrinsic hormones we all possess that drive the sexual urges), maybe God is using these facts knowing you will have to rely and focus on Him more in order to deter the sin. Just some thoughts…Basic I know..
Last, “16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c].” I interpret this as possibly meaning that if I am sexually impure my personal relationship with the Lord will suffer due to becoming “united” with another. Perhaps losing full focus on the Lord due to the sampling of the delicious “forbidden fruit,” thus creating an increased drive and redirected focus to repeat the act.
These interpretations do not suggest to me that the different categories of sins makes one category a greater sin than the other. I do, however, think God included these scriptures in the bible as a signal and warning to the ease of sexual immorality and the steep inversely proportional implications it will have on you, your future, your relationship with the Lord, and Lords ultimate plan for your life.
Basic personal interpretation like I said, but I am weak in content-analysis that reaches much deeper than surface level. Be gentle 🙂
RtT, thanks for readind and studying 🙂
Clearly all sin leads to death per Rom 6:23. Even the most insignificant (to us) sin separates from God and must be atoned for.
Having said that, certain sins affect us differently. Some may be more difficult to overcome (example: sexual sin vs. theft), or some may destroy our bodies to a greater degree (alcoholism, sexually transmitted disesase, etc), and all destroy us spiritually speaking. Just consider that not all sin has the same effect on body/mind even though the effect on the spirit is the same (spiritual death).
Large topic 🙂
I definitely agree with you there. I guess I was analyzing from God’s perspective: Does God interpret one sin greater than the other?
IF Christians are NOT doing the research, this could very well mean that many many other are not researching either…. NONE of their songs or the vocals promoting their album are promoting LGBT either. SOOOO.. God used evil persons to do his will and that does not mean that promoting these Christian songs may in fact be reaching out through our Facebook pages to those that are being spoken to and these beautiful songs may be sending them to Church. STOP being JUDGMENTAL and pray that something good comes from the music and that that all of Pentatonix were to hear from GOD.
JUDGE NOT is very applicable here.
Well, their lifestyle and activism does promote the LGBT agenda. It’s like accepting a pastor who lives in sin to preach to you. (if your are a biblical Christian). And this comment just provided more evidence to support that Matt 7:1 is the most popular bible verse these days.
Hello All!
I was just listening to Pentatonix and surfing the web and came across this website. I’m a late arrival 🙂 But this topic may help to expand my christian knowledge base. It was my understanding that the greatest command was to love: Love first your God, then love your neighbors as yourself. Is there a reference somewhere that says that because a person is outwardly/publicly sinning that we should love them less? One of my major gripes with Christianity is the members are quick to cast judgement and slow to love. I wonder what would happen if it was the opposite; where people people were quickly embraced and loved, thereby truly experiencing Christ’s love through members’ interaction. It has always caused me great distress to see the pickett lines protesting the outwardly open sins (abortion, gay, etc..)… I have just never understood why “loving” christians would even consider this… I obviously dont know what Jesus would do, but from what I have read in the bible, I don’t think He would be holding pickett signs – I like to picture that He would rush in and embrace the sinners…. reminding them how much he loves them, thereby demonstrating His Perfect Love. Thank you for any input or explanation
Interesting thoughts, Reseeking.
The Bible is clear on how Jesus reacted to sinners. He looked upon them with love in His holiness. After saving a sinful person from certain death, we find Jesus saying, “Go, and sin no more.” You can find the story in John 8.
Directly after this, we find this verse: “12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
We do not listen to the words of the world although there are many voices that are correctly admonishing others in love to turn from their sins and no longer “walk in the darkness.” Would it be loving to not voice concerns about sin?
Are Christians without sin? The Bible states “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Christians continually grow closer to God by His grace. Sin becomes something that lacks appeal to those who have the Holy Spirit in them. Bible knowledge and prayer are important to this continual growth. Yet, like the apostle Paul, Christians are sinners and need to repent of their sins.
I would recommend a good study of the book of Romans. It is not my word. It is God’s word and deals with this subject quite a bit.
Don’t judge God by looking at Christians. We will fail you every time. Follow the Word of God.
I wish you God’s blessings, Reseeking.
Matthew 7:6King James Version (KJV)
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. I tire of this constant argument. Many are using parts of Bible to prove that Jesus supports that anything goes. But if one studies the Bible and prays and is sincere in wanting to do what Christ wants them to do then they will not continue as such with the lie that anything goes because Christ is love. I am very glad you are not my parent because if anything goes then it would be ok for a child to rape, kill, steal, everything and anything. Yes, God does forgive the repentant sinner. That does not mean that God wants everyone to sin as much as possible. You create a gulf between you and God.
I was shocked to find that you praise Google in your post. As I’m sure you are aware, Google is an active promotor and advocate of homosexuality. To list just a few examples, they have promoted gay marriage, gay adoption and a homosexual lifestyle in a major ad campaign this past April, have posted pro-gay “doodles” on their homepage, have an internal working group for employees called “Gaygler,” and advocated for homosexual marriage in the Supreme Court decision. All of this is very clearly against Scripture and the Bible, and all true Christians should avoid Google at all costs, and should definitely not praise it in an article or encourage others to use it. They have done far more to promote the homosexual agenda than Pentatonix, for example, and any Christian who uses Google is complicit in an agenda that is working against God and Christianity. I would hope that in the future, you will never use Google again, just as you will never listen to Pentatonix. We must apply Scripture equally and cannot selectively apply it only to companies or groups we don’t like. By the way, the list of companies that actively promote and support gay marriage (going as far as donating money to pro-homosexual organizations) also extends to others such as Apple and Facebook, so I would hope that when you speak of your “social media feed,” you were not referring to Facebook, who are vocal proponents of a homosexual lifestyle. There are a number of issues in this post that any Scripture-adhering Christian should be deeply concerned with, the least of which is Pentatonix.
I agree carpenj4, we strive to be a holy people. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. However, we have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus and daily put that flesh to death.
The issue with Pentatonix , they openly renounce what the word of God says. Two openly saying they are homosexuals. They do not heed to the word of God. Believers can righteously judge others who say they are christians. A former lesbian delivered and set free. I do know what is at stake here.
A true believer will fight the good fight of faith and hear the voice of God. Who is Pentatonix hearing?
Even if they supposedly act holy by singing hymns that tickle the audience’s ears, they are of a reprobate mind. They need to repent of all their vain imaginations. 😦
Thanks for the welcome. It is important to admit that just because someone is saved doesn’t mean that they immediately stop their bad habits. Therefore, we need to give grace to those who may be struggling or are dealing with things that the spirit has yet to reveal to them. Not everyone immediately knows, or can trust, the translations of scriptures from other people – consider that there are many people who give their life to Christ, but don’t have a church or spiritual leader, and therefore they need time to learn what is right and wrong. Pointing out someone’s flaws and refusing to sit at the table to sup with them is simply judgmental and discourages the conversation that is needed within the church to get it to where it needs to be. Our impatience and unwillingness to let the Spirit work is, in my opinion, killing the church because it discourages discourse with the world – the very people we were put on earth to serve.
Great points. I agree with the approach you presented. This brings into discussion what to do with folks who would like to promote LGBTQ inside the church or who are practicing that lifestyle without feeling convicted of it.
Once we get past their initial confession of faith how should the church deal with their desire to be active in membership and leadership in the church? (I realize this moves the discussion into a slight tangent)
Honestly, I feel that that would be a discussion for each denomination. There are a lot of other people out there smarter than I am about this topic. I just know that we need to be there for the LBGTQ community. What that looks like, I admit, depends on what denomination you are talking about.
How do you see some of the episcopalians (and others) fully accepting the LBGTQ with membership rights, access to sacraments, and even ordination in the church?
Actually, your suggestion that it’s a ‘discussion for each denomination’ is not in accordance to what the scriptures teach concerning dealing with sin in the church. Let’s look at what the Apostle Paul commands in 1 Corinthians 5….
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
The Apostle is quite clear, the church is to ‘judge’ them that are within, and remove the unrepentant sinner from among them. This commentary from Albert Barnes clarifies, “Do not ye judge … – Is not your jurisdiction as Christians confined to those who are within the church, and professed members of it? ought you not to exercise discipline there, and inflict punishment on its unworthy members? Do you not in fact thus exercise discipline, and separate from your society unworthy persons – and ought it not to be done in this instance, and in reference to the offender in your church?”
Matthew Henry’s commentary is noteworthy as well, “But, as to members of the church, they are within, are professedly bound by the laws and rules of Christianity, and not only liable to the judgment of God, but to the censures of those who are set over them, and the fellow-members of the same body, when they transgress those rules. Every Christian is bound to judge them unfit for communion and familiar converse. They are to be punished, by having this mark of disgrace put upon them, that they may be shamed, and, if possible, reclaimed thereby: and the more because the sins of such much more dishonour God than the sins of the openly wicked and profane can do. The church therefore is obliged to clear herself from all confederacy with them, or connivance at them, and to bear testimony against their wicked practices. Note, Though the church has nothing to do with those without, it must endeavour to keep clear of the guilt and reproach of those within.”
Do we need to be there for the LBGTQ community? Only in this way – we need to point them to their sins, warn them of eternal judgment for sin, and point them to the Savior and His cross. We should never embrace a sinful community in any way that would appear as though we support their horrific sins against a thrice-holy God.
In this present day, most present a lopsided God, a God who’s all love, love, love. However, that is not the God of the bible, for God is holy holy holy. He is righteous, and will judge. God Himself tells us who He is in Exodus 34, “And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, “The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty.”
Great question. I have always only thought about the process of getting those fellow sinners inside the church walls and trying to make them feel welcomed. I guess I never really put much thought to what happens after that. Hmmm.. First thoughts… through the education process and emphasis on what a lifelong passion-seeking relationship with Jesus entails, the confession of faith would be defined adequately enough so that the fellow sinner would already be contemplating/processing resolve of the sin. As with any other sin/addiction/alternative-lifestyle, an overnight fix is hardly the outcome. But just just like we struggle constantly with certain sins, that may be the sin they struggle with the rest of their life. An image just came to mind…. An AA meeting – where the leader gets up and the first words out of his mouth are “Hello, my name is …., and I am an alcoholic and/or addict.” I may be getting off topic a little, but I think it would that be awesome if pastors did the same thing LOL. “Good morning, Im Pastor……, and I am a sinner/struggling christian/recovering homosexual, etc. I am not familiar with physiology of neuro involvement associated with homosexual relationships, but if its anything like what drugs and alcohol do to the brain, then, like alcoholics and addicts, it may be a lifelong struggle: It gets easier over time, but is never fully resolved.
“As with any other sin/addiction/alternative-lifestyle, an overnight fix is hardly the outcome.”
My experience is that this is most often the case, Reseeking. Exposure to God’s Word continually shapes us to be more like Him.
I’m sure there are some pastors who start counseling sessions the way you have suggested and that would be a good thing.
A worship service is something different. It is meant to uplift all believers in attendance. I think that’s why worship usually includes prayer, praise, and the preaching of the Word.
I know many people who have had sinful issues fully resolved. They have no desire to go back to the terrible ways of the past and look forward to the fulfillment of the promises of God.
A Christian should eventually bear good fruit. These are not only my words:
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
– Matthew7
I would imagine they would be. Sounds like an awesome work of God, ripsimeh.
Chris,
This line causes me some confusion. “A Christian should eventually bear good fruit. These are not only my words:…”
It was my understanding that being saved is only possible through grace and not by any of our own actions. John 3:16 is what I always understood as the principle verse used to relay only faith and God’s grace are required to be saved and go to heaven.
Sorry for the late response, Reseeking. I didn’t see your question until today.
I’m glad you are feeling better.
You are correct that a Christian is saved by grace alone (Eph. 2:8-9). After the Christian is saved, the Holy Spirit begins a work on the person. God begins to mold us like clay. Does our molding make us any more or any less a Christian? No!
As the Spirit works in us, we become more aware of God’s love, our faults, and our daily need for His help. We become better people. But, we are not any more saved than when we first believed.
I hope this helps. I will try and keep an eye on Delight’s blog if you have any other questions. If you want to “speak” to me personally, my email is chrisreimers@cablelynx.com.
God’s blessings…
Reseeking, here is a scripture that talks about a Christian’s walk:
It is from Ephesians 4
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with [t]one who has need. 29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Reseeking, this is only part of the reality of a Christian life. Anyone who tells you that it is going to be an easier life is wrong. However, the blessings of God through the fruits of the spirit (love, joy, peace, etc.) more than make up for the difficulties we face.
I would ask this, where did you get the idea that anyone in this band is struggling with something? These two men are blatantly rebelling against the God they dare sing about and do not even know. All that you state is your opinion; this band need to hear of their sins and of Christ as Savior. They need to hear of wrath, judgment as well as God’s mercy towards sinners. They need to hear of repentance, and of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
I would like to address this opinion from you as well, “Pointing out someone’s flaws and refusing to sit at the table to sup with them is simply judgmental and discourages the conversation that is needed within the church to get it to where it needs to be.” This is a worldly view and makes light of the seriousness of sin! Someone’s ‘flaws’? When we do not take serious God’s absolute HATRED of sin, and use our human reasoning, we fail miserably in our attempt to reach out to sinners. It is NOT judgmental to point a sinner to their sins; good grief, we need to stop accusing Christians of being judgmental – then we need to do an in-depth word study on ‘judging’ and understand what it means to read the bible in context.
Do you really think your approach, your conversation, your sugar-coating of truth is what will save a sinner? They must hear the truth, and the truth is always offensive to a sin-loving heart. However, God takes His truth and plows the heart. He will either draw the sinner to Himself and save them, or He will leave them in their sins only to go deeper in them. We do not determine who gets saved….God does. The Spirit will only work using God’s word, not added to nor taken from. We should never tamper with the truth in hopes of ‘winning’ souls to Jesus. We must show them their sins, speak of God’s perfect righteous standards, and Christ’s death, burial and resurrection. God’s mercy and grace are what they need to hear of as well…we are nothing, merely unworthy servants doing our duty {Luke 17:10}.
It is this spineless, milk-toast approach that causes sinners NOT to see the horrors of their crimes against a thrice-holy God, thus leaving them comfortable in their sins-not ‘flaws’ as you label it, but as the Bible calls it —–sin. Stop using worldly terminology and stick with God’s holy word!!!
Welcome Lyn. As I was reading your comment I remembered an article where the author mentioned that John 3:16 is no longer the top favorite verse among many American Christians. Which verse took its place? Matt 7:1 ““Judge not, that you be not judged…”
Many are using such verses out of context to excuse behavior that is parallel or against biblical principles. I will predict that many of our churches (Evangelical) will cave on the homosexuality issue and accept those who practice it as full members and part of the brethren, and ordain them.
Their problem is really with the Bible and what it teaches.
Thanks for the reply. Could you briefly explain Matthew 7:1ff (“Judge ye not…”), in context. Thank you.
This may help you to understand right judging – http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-matthew-7-1-5.htm
For a more in-depth, detailed teaching, you might consider reading this – http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sermon/sermon_39.htm
I think this is a more difficult matter then is upon the surface. One is the one called to continue in the music with this group. Perhaps only promoting truth and denouncing the sin that is there in and at work in the other members. I do not know all the details but to say the least if they were a Christian band lets say then those in rebellion should be rebuked and if they continued in their sin the would and should be excommunicated. We are called as christian not to associate or even eat with persons in open rebellion. Namely that of fornication, adultery, covetousness and idolatry… Yet they have their own agenda I would have to say to the Christian in the mix unless otherwise commanded of God to come out from among them… Yet I am reminded of a person who was called into a vocation who was heavenly persecuted in her work place yet she continued to shine for Christ in that place and has risen to a higher position then most and has gained the respect of others. I suspect that God in His wisdom knew this and called her to remain. If she is in sin we should as scripture states minster to the person in gentleness with love. To whom that is given that is not to say that I or anyone even on this blog is called to do so. Sometimes we can cause more problems by sticking our noses where they don’t belong being busy bodies and so it is in today’s world of social media… Who also is to say that God is not drawing them through the music and ministering to thousands at the same time. God has at many times undermined the works of the enemy while using someone who has not come to the fullness of faith in Christ.. Even then securing their salvation at the same time through reproof and His mercies. I say to some degree even myself If your not on the level don’t take on a battle that is not yours to fight… I have many of my own and have faults of my own I think myself it is better for me to be the more focused on those and those that directly relate to myself and those around me… God has already spoken why do we always feel that we need to be His absolute voice. Just point and move one otherwise we may find ourselves stirring the pot when it doesn’t need stirred. God has called us to speak when we are called to speak and there are times we are called to refrain from speaking….Chew on this I know of a Muslim that enjoys to sing and listen to Christ music… She is being drawn, their works will be tested by fire and so will ours let that be in our minds and let us not make judgments before the appointed time…
This is not a direct response but an overall response… Let God have this one He knows what to do better then we..
Philippians 1:15 Of course some of them preach Christ because they are jealous and quarrelsome, but others from genuine good will. 16 These do so from love, because they know that God has given me the work of defending the gospel. 17 The others do not proclaim Christ sincerely, but from a spirit of selfish ambition; they think that they will make more trouble for me while I am in prison.
18 It does not matter! I am happy about it—just so Christ is preached in every way possible, whether from wrong or right motives. And I will continue to be happy,
Some of what you say is in fact correct.
Ask yourself this, what does it mean to draw? The original language defines this – draw is translated from the Greek ‘helkó’ and defined from Strong’s Concordance, ‘to drag’. The sinner must be dragged to God, this denotes a use of supernatural force that is necessary to bring about a desired result. Why must a sinner be dragged? What stops them from coming on their own or at random? Again, the answer is found in His word, from John 8:34, “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.”
Now this from John 3:19, “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
It is the natural love of sin and the bondage to it that keeps sinners from coming, so God must drag them out of this darkness and bondage supernaturally. How can listening to music, which plays upon the emotions and causes various reactions, draw you to God? How does a song break you over your sins and enable you to see your need for Christ? Emotions are what God plays upon – He deals with the heart. Jer_17:10 ‘I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings’.
Heb 4:12 ‘For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.’
What lies in our hearts? “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
These are the things which defile a man”. Matt. 15:19,20a
Music that plays on the emotions but doesn’t prick the heart has no biblical value. When you read about music in the bible, it was ordained as a means to praise God. Now, we have lyrics that aren’t quite theologically sound, and yet many will claim God will use ‘half-truths’ to save sinners? To stated God may use this band is simply an opinion and nothing more. God will not use dirty vessels, as has already been pointed out.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.
These verses alone disqualify this band as a useful tool in the hands of the Master as a means of ‘drawing’ sinners to God.
Some may argue God used Pharoah, a hardened sinner, a dirty vessel. You must ask yourself how and why did He use him. Pharoah did not cause any to be ‘drawn’ to God, rather, God displayed His glory in what He did in spite of Pharoahs’ hardened heart.
As for Christ being preached per various motives – yes that is biblical. However, IF the message has been tainted, then the effort is in vain. This band does not even come close to presenting the biblical Christ of the Bible.
CORRECTION- ” Emotions are what God plays upon – He deals with the heart. ” should read “Emotions are NOT what God plays upon”….
No where does it say that they are actively seeking to change or seeking to dialogue about Christianity. They are desiring to continue in their sin.
Speaking of the homosexual agenda, here it is laid out for all to see – http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm
Thank you for bringing up this subject; it’s one that too many are afraid to approach for fear of appearing legalistic or judgmental. But here’s the thing: if we as mature Christians do not discuss things like this, then we do nothing more than fertilize the soil in which error grows.
Thanks to your article (which I first saw reblogged on another site), my wife and I discussed this over washing morning dishes. For me, and my wife agreed, this is a subject which falls under the heading of “Grace and Maturity Issues.”
The first thing that crossed my mind when I first saw the Silent Night video by Pentatonix was, “Why all the hype?” Seriously, the group is talented, but I knew right off the bat that something didn’t bear witness with my spirit, not to mention there are other groups even better who ARE openly Christian. So, I didn’t go around sharing every video they put out simply because I was not all that impressed.
Now, when it comes to Christmas music there are a lot of standards which are favorites across the board, many of which were recorded by some to the greats of the past, few of which even claimed to be Christian, much less lived a moral lifestyle. Do we share those? I do. But the difference is that I don’t go around saying, “Hey, you’ve got to hear Bing Crosby! I love Bing Crosby!” (honestly, I don’t know much about Bing Crosby’s personal life)
As Christians we should strive to act with wisdom and maturity seasoned with grace. The gospel message of Christmas will not return void, so that’s a good thing. However, we must be careful whom we put on a pedestal and promote.
Thank you for the very sound comment, Anthony. That was my point as well, but you made it sound so much more eloquent… 🙂 It is about who we promote, and not necessarily about the song they sing…. Like I wrote above, should we promote a practicing gay pastor who preaches really, really, really well?
Hi I find out kind of funny that you claim Christianity when the bible clearly says do not judge others just an interesting fact for you.
John 7:24
“…judge with right judgment.”
These are amazing songs proclaiming Jesus’ name. You don’t believe that God can use these songs to do His will??? Now whether the artists are “gay” or not, I think that, yes, being gay is against what the Bible says, but why point out all the negatives???? Focus on Jesus, while he bled to death on a chipped wooden cross, was tortured, betrayed, and yet still thought of you, you are thinking of if an artist is gay and how we shouldn’t listen to them. I will continue to listen, regardless. Music is music. Whether it be praiseworthy to God is what matters.
MJ, God does not accept the sacrifice of the disobedient. “Worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness” Ps 69
Why should I listen to an unrepentant sinner who celebrates his open rebellion to God? Listen to what you are saying!
Jesus is Love. He came with the updated Terms of Service (The New Testament), and everything he went through was enough for us to see that we must learn from the errors of the past; yet still, we continue misinterpreting His word and refusing to learn. The Old Testament is HIS STORY (history). It tells us what God wouldn’t do for us and what he did go through for us; and how his decisions hurt Him to the extent that he had to arrive here in person to show us the way. Why is this so hard for people to understand? God bless you. God bless us all!
I had posted their video Mary did you know on my fb page. A few minutes later I decided to do some research on the band. Needless to say, even though they sing beautifully, I removed the video. I will not promote sin!
THANK GOD!!
This is ridiculous, the Lord tells us not to judge others. These people are broadcasting and incredibly powerful and beautiful song about the birth of our Lord and Savior. Bringing it to the ears of thousands who can be inspired and drawn to the lord by it. What they do in their personal life and how they reconcile it with the Lord belongs to them. I will leave you to your crusade, and follow in Jesus’s example of tolerance and love. Dear God.
Dear, please do not take the God’s name in vain.
Hey… I meant to do this earlier, but a case of pneumonia has had me handicapped the last couple of weeks. Thank you to all who joined in with me in the discussion: your time and efforts are greatly appreciated! Like I said previously, this was the first place I stopped back on my faith-journey. I know not all the information was consistent with the blog, so I also thank you for your understanding and patience. Peace be with all of you, Bryan
Reseeking,
I didn’t see the question you asked me earlier in this thread until today. Please look back up this thread to see my answers if you so wish.
God’s blessings…
You should look more into the teachings of Jesus … everyone falls short in the matters of of God … everyone is a sinner … . only through grace and faith are we saved! Stop throwing stones and remove the log in your own eye before the spec in someone else’s
What stones, sir?
“And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?””
Numbers 22:28 NASB
http://bible.com/100/num.22.28.
Fellow Christians, if you put your faith in the same sovereign God that I do, then you should perhaps consider that scripture states, that our God will open the mouth of whomever or whatever He pleases to inspire us, correct us and draw us closer. Whether Pentatonix is a Christian group or a collection of donkeys, I don’t know. But I am certain that God may exercise His sovereign power and open their mouths. In your criticisms of Pentatonix are you playing the part of Balaam?
Perhaps if Christians would busy themselves in lovingly sharing the gospel rather than wallowing in judgement and self-righteousness, God would use us in ways that could make unbelief seem unattractive so that He won’t instead choose donkeys and the stones they walk on to do the work of evangelism for us.
“Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.” But Jesus answered, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!”
Luke 19:39-40 NASB
http://bible.com/100/luk.19.39-40.nasb
How arrogant we must sound and how small our God must appear to others when we argue that only we believers are capable of bringing Him glory. Scripture is clear that the mountains and ALL of creation is endlessly busy with that.
“For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.”
Romans 11:36 NASB
http://bible.com/100/rom.11.36.nasb
Travtouch: Balaam’s donkey was obedient to the LORD in delivering the message. Pentatonix is not obedient to God, they are in rebellion towards God because of their sinful lifestyle (homosexuality). So the idea of “inspiration” is a unpalatable to an obedient Christian, simply because of that.
What sin do you have in your own life? Take a serious look!
You are so right ! And it is such a shame that still today we have our brothers and sisters in the Lord that feel like they have to only bash people for certain sins. We are all sinners saved by grace and none are perfect. God can and will use them for His glory.
They are very talented, but there was something that didn’t feel right and like yo said Thanks God for Google! These are the false prophets we are going to encounter and we must fight with the word of God. It’s sad and wrong…
You preach a gospel of exclusion which is not what my Jesus preached. Furthermore, if we are to discount these products for being gay, we should also discount all other sinners. Their sin is no greater than yours or mine.
The issue is that born-again Christians repent of their sin. Pentatonix gay members continue to live in sin
There are Christians struggling with their sins, sometimes for years. That should be still OK.
However publicly promoting sin is simply false teaching.
You should find shame in your comments and question your faith. If you truley believe you will know that no matter what, sin is sin. From lying to adultery to spouting on about your neighbor, and then murder. Sin is sin. And yes homosexuality is sin but no different than the aforementioned sins are sins. Premarital sex is sin. “I ask those of you without sin to cast the first stone upon her”. Jesus!!!! Wake up people.
Sir, you should feel convicted and repent of taking the Lord’s name in vain.
Are you going to lecture apostle Paul about sin? He places sexual sin in a separate category in 1 Cor 6:18-20.
What about Hitler’s sins? Are you going to equate them to a mere theft of a few dollars?
While ALL sin leads to death, not all sin is equal in magnitude!
People who are not converted, not truly born again, not really pulled from the world of darkness into the light of Christ will never understand it. As you clearly mentioned, when the devil realized he can’t get the gospel of universalism into church through preaching, he successfully did it through music and art. A lot of people who hate your post are product of that. They also question our stand on abortion, discotheques, sensual dressing and lay evangelism. But wisdom is proved right by her actions. Thank you!
Thank you!
Even if none of the singers were open homosexuals, and even if all were professing Christians, this one fact, alone, should stop faithful Christians from supporting and promoting them: “Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda.”
And too few Christians who are quick to stand against the homosexual agenda, are too slow to ‘prepare your minds for action.’ We need more than bumper sticker theology. Much of the confusion on this issues stems from the world’s re-definition of ‘love’ which has infected many churches. https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/love-basics-heresies-divorce-homosexuality-church/
God bless you
Wow. As a (Pentatonix-loving) Christian myself, I’m pretty sure that’s the most hate-ridden, judgemental thing I’ve ever read from another “Christian.” I don’t see them going around spreading messages of hate and oppression so why are you? Why even bother bringing them up? I’m pretty sure they aren’t the first non-Christians to ever record a Christmas album.
Which part did you find hateful?
Agreed!
-Pentatonix loving Christian
I think it’s great that they are singing Christian Christmas songs. They are sharing a powerful message to those who otherwise wouldn’t listen to a Christian message. Fans on PTX who don’t believe in God are being exposed to the story of Christ, it’s amazing! PTX is a gifted group of singers and I believe God can even use them to be a witness for Him.
Yes he can use them also!
They’re not proclaiming to be Christians. There’s many openly gay artists, can’t “shun” then all. If they were preaching God’s word then there’d be an issue. I agree, you shouldn’t listen to an openly gay preacher because he’s defying the very thing he stands for. They don’t stand for Christianity. I’m so thankful the one member is a Christian do they can see the love of God instead of the hate so many try to portray by shunning others.
There is no such thing as as a Gay Christian, God don’t take gays in heaven, it just don’t happen read the the Bible it says he gave them over to a reprobate mind, he also burned Sodom and Gomorrah for their homosexuality, its people with sick minds, it’s not normal! He also said you are in the world but don’t be of it!
God will save any sinner who repents of their sin.
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Well dang I guess I won’t get into heaven then. If you count all my own sins in my life. How about you? What Sins do you have in your own life? Do you even take the time to look at yourself and realize you also are a sinner? A sinner saved by grace. The very grace that will hopefully cover and excuse your judgements ways.
So sad,to hear that they are not a christian band ,they are so gifted ,let’s keep. In mind that Only Jesus saves ,and that there is SALVATION and conviction of SIN AGAINST FOR A MAN KIND ,
This group is majestic and if you have paid problem because some one might be gay you are a bigottot. God and your Jesus said ” judge not or yea may be judged”
It should not surprise us that non-Christians should take an interest in Christmas and Christian themes in music. Many believers pray regularly for the unbeliever or the marginal to be drawn to the Lord. Music is one way.
A musical avenue like this may put unbelieving band members in the presence of true believers on more than one occasion. What a great opportunity for any Christian to then reach out to them.
I hope that even more unbelievers take an interest in Christmas, even as they bless us with their voices.
It is my prayer that the believers which band members come into contact with share with them graciously, as someone once shared with me when I was lost, but interested. If their music about Christmas opens other hearts to Jesus, then what a wonderful side benefit to great voices!
Listening to their music also puts the band members before us regularly so we can remember to pray for them.
I believe that their music is overflowing with opportunity to share Jesus, both with them and with others. Use the opportunities that come your way!
Sinners are not saved by listening to someone singing Christmas songs; the Gospel is Christ died for the ungodly, repent and believe. Romans 1:16 states ‘I am not ashamed of the Gospel for IT IS THE POWER OF SALVATION’. We simply MUST stop accrediting worldly means in attempts to justify personal preference, as though God will use ‘dirty vessels’.
Why do so many think a ‘Christian’ CCM band will be used by God? What kind of vessels are useful to the Master? From 2 Timothy 2:21, “If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.”
Let’s stop straying from God’s truth and resorting to fleshly means in an attempt to ‘save’ the lost. If you want to ‘share’ Jesus, do as the Apostles did —– proclaim His truth.
YES!
Amen
“Sinners are not saved by listening to someone singing Christmas songs” you say. Well, I do know of people who have come to the Lord through music. I came to Jesus at Christmas.
I came to the Lord myself at a Christmas eve service where all the little kids came on stage with angel wings and hoops of sparkling halos over their heads. The message made it’s mark. I listened to Christmas carols and little kids sing on stage in white gowns, and I got saved!
I’m was not familiar with Pentatonix nor can I remember singing “Mary Did You Know” in Church, but their rendition impacted me because of the words (written, I now know by Mark Lowry). My favorite line is at the end “The sleeping Child you’re holding is the great “I am””. I love the words to this song, and what can I say, they reached my ears by some secular group who lifted up Jesus more than many believers do.
Does the Church compromise too often? Sure, on sexuality, easy divorce, evolution and many other topics. If some believers heard a few carols by Pentatonix and confuse them with a Christian band, it is right and proper to tell them that this is a secular group. Of course it is.
However, how crazy is it that this wonderful song reached me through a secular group. Can God use even secular people to lift up His Son? I guess so because He did so for me. God used Mel Gibson to make “The Passion” and look at his life!
I appreciate the author making it clear that Pentatonix is not a Christian group by any stretch of the imagination. It is a good article. But be careful in your comments. You DO NOT know what God is doing in the lives of these musicians and you DO NOT always know when God Himself is using vessels of wood or clay for His own glory. Do not presume to know who God is or is not using.
It’s amazing the lengths professing Christians will go to to defend ‘music’ and the entertainment industry.
“Do not presume to know who God is or is not using.” But it’s okay that you do that very thing? You assume God will use music to save, yet you have not one ounce of scriptural support for this view.
No one can come unless the Father draws, meaning ‘drags’ in the Greek. God must drag sinners to Himself because of the sinners natural love of sin and darkness and the bondage to it {see John 3:19 and John 8:34}, yet you claim a song will snap you out of your stupor and cause you to see your own filth?
“I came to the Lord myself at a Christmas eve service where all the little kids came on stage with angel wings and hoops of sparkling halos over their heads. The message made it’s mark. I listened to Christmas carols and little kids sing on stage in white gowns, and I got saved!” Sounds like you were overcome by emotion and NOT broken over your own vileness.
Lyrics cannot break a sin-hardened heart. Only God’s truth can. You fail to comprehend the work of the Holy Spirit in saving sinners. He uses the word of God to convict, not song lyrics. It seems many are moved by their emotions and NOT by the conviction of sin in their hearts. They mistake the emotions as something God is doing.
As for Mel Gibson’s movie, it is riddled with RCC overtones. http://www.svchapel.org/resources/articles/22-contemporary-issues/532-the-passion-of-the-christ-part-1
God uses any and all things for His purposes, how He sees fit. He hardened Pharoah’s heart so that His glory would be made known. However, when it comes to how sinners are saved, the Bible is crystal clear – For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9
There must be a brokenness over sin – Psa_34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
If you have not been broken by God over your own vileness and born again by the Spirit, you are still in your sins. Professions are worthless, there MUST be a work done in the heart by the Spirit, a work that lays the sinner low, in the dust. Grace and mercy cause the sinner to see their need to trust solely in Christ for salvation. This brokenness has not one thing to do with songs, verbal professions, altar calls, decisions, etc. and a feel good type of Christianity that permeates America.
May it please the Lord to reveal His truth in hearts everywhere.
Amen!
Having read most of this discussion, I would like to respond by sharing a supernatural encounter I had. I was invited to a 50th birthday party that I did not want to go to, because it was all about the life I used to live, prior to becoming a born again Christian. Alcohol and language, and Christ not to be found anywhere kind of party. Dear Jesus encouraged me to go, picked my dress and I prayed that he would use me. I was only going because I felt He had given me permission to go. I didn’t want to go because I can’t stop talking about Jesus, wherever I go, because I love Him so much and this group are intolerant of it.
At this party, I got talking to a gay lesbian couple. To cut a very long story short, I shared about Jesus. One of the girls, put her arm around me and said ‘but God doesn’t want to know people like me and Mary’. She believed there is a God but honestly felt He didn’t want her. The Holy Spirit then just ‘took over’ for want of a better description. Out of my mouth came words of love for her, how much He loved her, how He would die for her if she was the only person on the planet. In front of my face, this lady’s countenance changed completely. The darkness left her, she was visibly shining and overcome with joy. She told me that I had made her feel so loved and accepted as a person (not a as a lesbian). She tried to describe the feelings of love that were surrounding her. I explained that this was Holy Spirit and if she wanted to know Him more, I could pray. She said yes and I prayed, on the dance floor for Her to know Jesus more.
She kept saying how happy she felt.
30 minutes later, i got a definite nudge from our Lord that it was time to leave.
All I’m saying is, Christ showed this lady love. She wasn’t always a lesbian, but her first husband had abused her. In the bible, it clearly states that Christ sat EATING (which in those days means sharing) with sinners. He allowed prostitutes to touch Him.
Being unequally yoked as someone posted isn’t I believe about only having Christian friends, after all, we are the salt of the world are we not? The light is meant to shine in the darkness and He is in us, the light in us is meant to be taken into the darkness.
Should we buy Pentatonix album? I believe that we should pray for all their salvation, pray for the Christian in the group to be able to witness to his friends.
I came from a very legalistic background. Very Pharisical. So even though I was a ‘Christian’ my whole life, it’s only in the last 10 that God has shown me the error as I was criticising, judging others because they didn’t do it like this etc etc. Yes, I agree that same sex relationships are completely not in line with God’s wish at all and I will never say otherwise, But, is it any different to any pre-marital sex, living together unmarried? It is still sin. But God got me out of all my past sin via showing me how much He loved me.
How refreshing would it be, if this group were inundated with Christians, not bashing them, but telling them about how much Jesus loves them, what He did for them and WHY He did it. Opening their eyes to the enemy’s schemes, all backed by prayer. The enemy can not create a thing. This groups talent is from God. Why don’t we actively pray that as time goes on, they choose to use their talent to worship God? Is is true that as you go closer to God, your understanding about sin increases and you abhor it. But you abhor it in a way that is leading people to Jesus not making them feel judged. Jesus did not come into this world to condemn the world but to save it. Let’s use our voices to say how talented this group are and point them lovingly to how much Jesus loves them.
Unless they have an encounter with Jesus, unless they feel His love for them, they will have no logical reason to change. Only through the revelation of Jesus. Maybes someone should send them the passion version of the bible.
I believe in miracles because I am one. God loves this 5 people. Let’s be honest, they have spent their time promoting Christian carols, yes for money i dare say, but God brings Good from all things to those that love Him and are called. Is the Christian member of this group not called? Does he not love Jesus. Maybe this is a step in the right direction for the group. If they find that the Christian community is flooding them with love which one can do without being accepting of their sin, is this not Jesus. Jesus told the lady caught in adultery ‘is anyone prosecuting you, well neither do i, go and STOP sinning’. He didn’t insist she became pure before he said he wasn’t prosecuting her. He gave her His love first and then gave Her a direction. We do not know what she chose but we see how Jesus dealt with sin.
I believe that legalism and religion have a lot to answer for. God loves us all equally. By loving this group, we are not accepting of any of their sins, just like loving our children, parents etc doesn’t mean we agree with their choices but, as Christians, we would be better placed to be showing Jesus by showing love. Love is not wimpy, it’s powerful. Ask God to open their eyes every day. Can you imagine what would happen is this whole group found God!!!!! God has allowed all this to be discussed for good I believe. Let’s not worry about whether to buy or not to buy (ask Holy Spirit, He will direct you) but to channel our time into praying for God to use this group, who are hugely talented, for His Glory and His Glory alone.
There are problems with your claims – first of all the Gospel isn’t that God loves everyone. Example, ‘Jacob I loved, Esau I hated’. The bible states Christ died for the ungodly – there’s no mention of emotions here.
Second of all, you claim this woman was overcome with emotions because you told her Jesus loved her. Emotions are not what needs to be dealt with – the heart is. The heart must be pricked by God and the sinner must come to a right understanding of why they need Christ. Please, where does the bible tell us to tell sinners God loves them? To tell someone God loves them is not commanded by God; what if this woman continues in her sins and perishes? Wouldn’t she have a right to question God because, after all, you told her He loved her and she perished? What kind of God loves everyone yet allows them to perish? This is what happens when we adhere to a false gospel, which also includes ‘free will’.
So many ‘Christians’ today have a ‘god’ that they’ve formed in their own understanding, a god that they build around one attribute -love – then present to others. The love of God must be understood in its proper context. We love Him because He first loved us- who is being addressed in this epistle? Believers or non-believers? Who does John speak to? ‘Beloved’ – this epistle is written to believers, whom God chose to set His affection on.
So, was this sinner you confronted born again, and was repentance proclaimed? You didn’t say, so I assume not, but I don’t know for certain. Yet, what do we find in the bible?
Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
A gospel presentation without the mention of repentance is no gospel at all. As for love, what is the biblical definition of love? Is it an emotion?
If you love sinners, you will tell them truth, for love is an action. You won’t spare their feelings and sugar coat God’s truth.
All you did was play on her emotions and make her feel comfortable about her abomination. You have no right to tell a sinner God loves them!
From the bible – Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Psa 7:12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.
In verse 11, angry means enraged. Every day means ‘constant, continual’. Here is commentary from Albert Barnes – “The words “God is angry” must, of course, be understood in a manner in accordance with the divine nature; and we are not to suppose that precisely the same passions, or the same feelings, are referred to when this language is used of God which is implied when it is used of people. It means that his nature, his laws, his government, his feelings, are all arrayed against the wicked; that he cannot regard the conduct of the wicked with favor; that he will punish them. While his judgment in regard to the righteous must be in their favor, it must just as certainly be against the wicked; while he will vindicate the one, he will cut off and punish the other. Of the truth of this in respect to the divine character there can be no doubt. Indeed, we could not honor a God – as we could honor no other being – who would deal with the righteous and the wicked alike, or who would have no respect to character in the treatment of others, and in his feelings toward them.”
It is better to remain silent than to attempt to give a faulty ‘gospel’. Sinners don’t need to hear that Christ loves them, they need to hear they have sinned against their Creator, they will perish apart from trusting in what Christ has done to reconcile them back to the God they hate and rebel against. They need to hear of God’s mercy and grace, and Christ’s death, burial and resurrection from the dead.
Act_17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
The Apostles did not leave out repentance and the resurrection, nor did they tell anyone that God loved them. Today, most add to the ‘gospel’ and make it an accursed one.
Elene,
I pray you will consider listening to this message from Ken Wimer, a true preacher of God’s word – http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=311161816322
Ive learned out of following your conversation God bless
I agree with the author. This issue is not about only accepting homosexuality in the workplace, in politics or even in culture, but in the church. Millenials have been brainwashed into believing homosexuality is an identity, not a behavior. This was hotly debated in the 90s, but the LGBT agenda marched onward in despite being proven wrong. It was then planted in the minds of millions via diversity politics in the public schools by liberally trained, often low-paid, teachers with a victim mindset influenced by radical feminism and racial politics. As millenials invaded the workplace, so did their ideas. The best thing Christians can do is continue to hammer the truth that every man who talks with a lisp is demonstrating a choice. Every eyebrow piercing, every feminine gesture, every fashion statement is a choice. Marching half naked in the street wearing leather chaps is a choice. Going to a gay bar is a choice. They are not just deceived, they brainwashed. That means they are beyond reason. IF they cannot be persuaded of their error, they will be judged by God. The Bible calls it “reprobate.” That is why there are numerous warnings against deception. It starts in the mind.
I agree with the author. This issue is not about only accepting homosexuality in the workplace, in politics or even in culture, but in the church. Millenials have been brainwashed into believing homosexuality is an identity, not a behavior. This was hotly debated in the 90s, but the LGBT agenda marched onward in despite being proven wrong. It was then planted in the minds of millions via diversity politics in the public schools by liberally trained, often low-paid, teachers with a victim mindset influenced by radical feminism and racial politics. As millenials invaded the workplace, so did their ideas. The best thing Christians can do is continue to hammer the truth that every man who talks with a lisp is demonstrating a choice. Every eyebrow piercing, every feminine gesture, every fashion statement is a choice. Marching half naked in the street wearing leather chaps is a choice. Going to a gay bar is a choice. They are not just deceived, they brainwashed. That means they are beyond reason. IF they cannot be persuaded of their error, they will be judged by God. The Bible calls it “reprobate.” That is why there are numerous warnings against deception. It begins with what we believe.
You will be judged by God as well.
You are so judgemental…
We are none without sin! Priests, pastors, choir directors,Sunday school teachers, nuns, deacons, etc… We all have sins in our lives but God still wants us to use our talents for His glory just as they are doing. We all make our choices in this life- right or wrong, moral or immoral. I am a divorced woman so shall I bury my head in the sand???
Priscilla,
Where did anyone state they were without sin? You threaten ‘judgment’ when in fact, YOU are the one judging!! It’s shameful how others misconstrue that word, pull it out of it’s biblical context, and attempt to use it as a weapon against those who expose error and uphold truth. This is due to a wrong understanding of God’s truth. You have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
Do you have scriptural support that God uses the unsaved to help others ‘get saved’? It’s interesting how those with a shallow/limited understanding of how God saves come on threads such as this and start pointing fingers, and spewing out opinions based on emotions.
Those ‘choices’ are what the Bible calls sin. Using worldly terminology will never suffice when it comes to attempting to speak God’s truth.
As for your divorce, was it biblical and if not, has God broken you over your sin[s]? Repentance is key in the life of a born again believer. If you have not been brought to repentance, a Godly sorrow and NOT a worldly sorrow, then burying your head in the sand will be of no use. You cannot hide from God.
I understand where you are coming from. I thought long and hard on this before posting. I agree with you about the Bible. It is 100% truth and we should strive to follow it to the T. I try everyday, and everyday I fail. Everyday I mess something up, whether it be not showing love to someone, or being angry, passing on a word of gossip that I heard. It’s something every single person on the planet fails at daily, and you know why? Because we are human. Just by even speaking Ill about this group is sinning. But see this is where Gods Grace steps in. His grace covers us. Everyone sins different, but guess what sin is sin. It’s all the same in Gods eyes. Just because they sin differently than you or I doesn’t make their sin any better or worse. It becomes so easy to point our fingers at other people and what their sin is. God commands us to be a light to the world and his hand extended. Do you really think if Jesus was here, that he would be tearing them down? I mean honestly look at the people he used. Murderers, adulters, liars, thieves, prostitutes… these are the people he chose to use. So how about all of us try showing some compassion and love. We aren’t God. If God is choosing to use them who are we to say otherwise.
Melony,
Exposing this group, who claims to be ‘Christian’ and yet there are some members that profess to be homosexual, is NOT sin!! Good grief where do you people come up with this stuff? Eph. 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them.
Where oh where did anybody mention sinless perfection? This is NOT about anyone here claiming to be ‘holier than thou’, this is about exposing fake christianity. Verbal professions are meaningless, does anybody understand this? Christ warned that many will call Him Lord, but He will tell them to depart, He NEVER knew them.
Do you understand repentance? Do you understand this from 1 Cor. 6:9-11, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you.
Now take note of verse 11, ‘such WERE some of you’, it is a verb in the PAST TENSE. That means that ALL the Apostle mentioned prior to verse 11 are sins that are NO LONGER practiced by God’s elect. That is what true repentance is, a turning away from sin. Three Greek words are used in the New Testament which present different phases of repentance. First, metanoeo, which means a change of mind (Matt. 3:2; Mark 1:15, etc.). Second, metanolomai which means a change of heart (Matt. 21:29, 32; Heb. 7:21, etc.). Third, metanoia, which means a change of course or life (Matt. 3:8; 9:13; Acts 20:21). The three must go together for a genuine repentance. Many experience a change of mind: they are instructed, and know better, but they continue to defy God. Some are even exercised in heart or conscience, yet they continue in sin. Some amend their ways, yet not from love to God and hatred of sin. Some are informed in mind and uneasy in heart, who never reform their lives. The three must go together.
Exposing false Christianity is NOT a sin, so stop with the silly accusations. If you want to debate, use the word of God to do so and not your fleshly opinions, which hold no water compared to biblical truth. I get tired of everyone passing judgment on those who expose what is false and the only thing you have is your opinion?!?
Unworthy1.. You and your unbending, legalistic ways, are the exact reason people are running away from the church, instead of to it. You keep stating over and over in these posts that none of us know scripture, that we have nothing to back it up. I know scripture and I know it well. But you know what else I know? I know Gods grace and his love. The very pit of hell that he has pulled me out of, is the very driving force that helps me have compassion and love to others sins and their struggles. I understand how hard it is everyday to struggle with a sin and how my human flesh wants to go back to that sin. Pointing our fingers and publicly or privately condemning people is not the way. People are not going to change that way. It’s only through love and patient guidance. It’s only through Jesus, that people can and will change. You can’t meet Jesus and stay the same. We do not know their struggle. We don’t know if they cry out to Jesus everyday and ask to change. We do not know. Only they and God know. But I do know that if we keep tearing them down and being Judgemental jerks, we will never reach them. I don’t know about you, but my goal as a Christian is to bring more people to Christ, not scare them away. I am going to choose to love them through it. I am going to choose to be a light. I choose to be Gods hand extended. I choose to gently coax people through the process and share my own testimony of coming out of my sin. That’s what I am choosing to do, instead of being a legalistic, Judgemental jerk.
Melony,
It’s up to you to point to my errors, then use Scripture to back your accusations. Show me where I’ve gone outside God’s word.
You choose to gently coax people? Are you saying you have power to save sinners?
What is your understanding of repentance and the new birth?
Where did I condemn? Also, who are you referring to when you say ‘We don’t know if they cry out to Jesus everyday and ask to change. We do not know.’
This post is about a group of singers, a couple of which profess to be homosexual. Here’s some insight for you, “What are the advantages and disadvantages of being one of two gay members of Pentatonix?
There are actually more advantages than disadvantages. I think it’s a great thing. I love that our fans are so accepting of it. It’s amazing; it makes me feel so close to them.
Some people might say that being openly gay in the music business might deter you from having a career, but I don’t think that’s true. My career, as a queer person, has been pretty successful. We’re still on our way up, but I think we’ve been doing an amazing job. I love the support. I’m proud.” source – https://thegavoice.com/mitch-grassi-of-pentatonix-on-being-gay-in-the-cool-a-cappella-band/
Does that sound like someone who’s crying out? Someone who wants to change?
When you presume things, your imagination will run away with you.
This is from his twitter feed — WARNING!!! This is NOT for everyone
Mitch Grassi @mitchgrassi Dec 26
how amazing would a string quartet version of ‘sex with me’ be
243 replies 639 retweets 4,273 likes
Reply 243 Retweet 639
Like 4.3K
And you defend this, plus, you claim to be a Christian? I have no idea if you are of the elect of God or not, but I do know that the fruit you display doesn’t look good at all.
Psa_119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Born again believers should detest all sin, especially their own.
You call me a ‘judgmental jerk’, so it’s okay for you to pass judgment, but I shouldn’t call out what is false and trying to label itself as Christian?
You also state you want to bring more people to Christ, so you have power to do that? Not according to the Bible, read Romans 1:16.
You may be surprised to hear the Gospel of Christ is most offensive to sinners. They recoil at hearing they are vile, sinful and in need of Christ’s atoning work. Have you read how they reacted at the preaching of Stephen? God must work in the heart of sinners or they would tear out the hearts of His messengers if they could. You have no power to win sinners over, we are to proclaim Christ and His death, burial and resurrection. However, IF they do as they did at the preaching of Peter and say ‘what must I do to be saved’, the credit doesn’t go to the messenger. God the Spirit is the One who gets credit, as He uses God’s truth and moves like the wind within the heart of a sinner.
I already asked what your understanding is on regeneration and repentance and await your answer.
Melony, you have genuine concern for the lost which is a godly attribute.
I would agree with you IF the “struggle” you mention exists with the gay members of Pentatonix. So far they have indicated that they do not struggle with their homosexuality. They embrace it. They promote it. They celebrate it.
And they want us to celebrate it as well. And we cannot do that because the Word of God does not allow us.
I can certainly say that they sing beautifully; however as a Christian It very important to keep our testimony! Not every one especially our young people coming up can become confused or accepting of this type of immoral behavior that seems to always be in the forefront these last days! There is an old adage that says “tell me who you hang around with and I will tell you who you are!” You might not practice what they do but you will eventually accept or even condone their belief! Beware..let us not be fooled! You can’t walk on both sides of the fence…You will eventually fall on one side or the other! Lots of deception and acceptance today! We love the sinner..and the distinction is not the sin! Like Jesus said ” go and sin no more!”
Exactly Mary! As soon as ‘professing Christians’ start accepting everything/everyone as being ‘okay’, then compromise has taken hold and they will soon be dragged off into the ecumenism that permeates this nation. Yes, today’s professing Christians are lukewarm and they embrace sin. They think God is all love, love, love. They forget He is thrice holy, and He detests sin. He hates wickedness. He will in no way let the guilty go unpunished. We are called to warn sinners to flee the wrath to come and NOT to embrace them in their sins. The bible commands sinners to ‘repent and believe on the Lord Jesus’. That is not a choice, that is a command.
Most haven’t a clue who the God of the bible is, they are comfortable with a ‘jesus’ that embraces sin, that is all warm and fuzzy over others and doesn’t care about how vile others are….in other words, a ‘jesus’ that looks just like them! That is not who the Christ of the bible is – He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and He’s coming again to unleash the most horrific wrath on sinners.
A low view of God leads to a complete wrong understanding of His truth. A lopsided ‘god’ that is all love but fails to mention His holiness, righteousness, sovereignty, power and might is no god at all; the true God of the Bible is never rightly expounded upon in most churches and therefore looks nothing like the ‘god’ most Americans claim to believe in.
Superficial Christianity is rampant, with most being driven by emotions and opinion rather than the Spirit and His truth.
Ye MUST be born again!!!!
Here is the crux of the matter – “While at least one member of the band publicly claims to be a Christian, two other members are openly gay. Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda.”
You simply cannot be a follower of Christ, sing songs that some label as ‘Christian’ {I use that very loosely}, and embrace the LGBTQ agenda. That is NOT true biblical Christianity. The true born again believer in Christ warns sinners to flee the wrath to come and begs them to be reconciled to God through Christ. Repentance is proclaimed, and sin is NOT made light of nor embraced.
Many of these comments on this thread are very sad; they reflect people driven by their emotions and their own opinions. What does the Bible teach about the human heart and emotions? “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9
The ‘heart’ includes your thoughts, will, emotions, etc.- the whole ‘inner man’. It is deceitful, full of trickery, and desperately wicked, meaning sick and incurable. And people trust their ‘heart’ to guide them?
You’re being quite judgemental, which in turn is also a sin and all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Make sure you are perfect before you judge others. Btw I would listen to an openly gay pastor if he was good😊.
1 Cor. 2:15 “The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is subject to no man’s judgment.”
1 Cor. 5:12 “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside, “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
1 Cor. 5:9-11 “I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people – not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral […] In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.”
1 Cor. 6:9 “Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Explain these verses. And then explain why it is almost exclusively women that defend the LGBTQ brainwashing agenda. I’ll do it for you: The woman was deceived. Genesis 3:13.
Perhaps he would be preaching from Oprah’s books because the bible would condemn his lifestyle.
But it’s okay for you to judge me? I believe Gen X has rightly answered your false accusations.
Now, if you would be comfortable sitting under the preaching of a homosexual pastor, you have huge issues and show lack of discernment.
You take no issue with what God calls an abomination? As long as he’s ‘good’. How do you define good? You claim ‘judging’ is sin, but you would take no issue with a homosexual pastor? ! Do you realize that homosexual sin is repulsive to the Lord, and to state such a deviant sinner could preach is beyond comprehension. Those who do not repent have no right to take the precious word of God upon their lips, not to mention they do not even know or understand truth. They are void of the Spirit.
This is what people like yourself do not get, if someone is still in their sins and has no desire to leave them, that person is not saved, knows nothing of biblical repentance and of the new birth- which is essential to enter God’s kingdom. No sodomite can be ‘good’ at preaching because the Spirit of God does NOT reside in the unregenerate.
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Take note of ‘such WERE’ that is past tense. It means you no longer practice the sins Paul mentioned prior.
You have accused me of judging, can you point to an exact part of the comment that displayed wrong judgment, then back that with Scripture?
Hello guys,
Im from germany so my English isn’t the best. I hope you understand me anyway.
I think what you write here is not the best way to Deal with the Band.
I really like the music they sing and so I asked me the Same question you talked about here.
I’m with you with the Part, that beeing gay is sin but thats No reason to stop Listen to them or hate them or something else. If we go After that System, that we boycott everybody who is a sinner, we can do nothing, becurse we all are sinner and theres No sin worse that the other.
Jesus teached us to love everybody. He went to the sick, becurse the need the doctor, Not those, who are perfect.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
Good point.
Yeah, even if it is a sin we are told not to judge others so what does it matter that people live how they want to live?
This is what happens when you take the bible out of context, constantly claiming we are not to ‘judge others’. Yet, we find this in 1 Cor. 5 – 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
So, whenever someone claims to be a believer, as Mitch Grassi does, and continues on in a sin that God calls an abomination – homosexuality, we who are in Christ are called to ‘judge’ him. That judgment must be rightly done, pointing out sin according to God’s word and speaking of the necessity to repent of said sin. When that doesn’t happen, that person is to be ‘put away’.
The problem is so many claim to be ‘Christian’ yet have no problem with sin, which shows how biblically illiterate and ignorant they are of the God of the Bible. God is thrice holy, He despises and abhors sin, and yet most wink at it?!?
Sophie, learn what it means to rightly divide truth and stop pulling the ‘do not judge’ out of context.
Now, their ‘sexual orientation’ as you call it is a line of poppycock. You won’t find that in the bible anywhere. Homosexuals lust after one another, do read Romans 1, starting with verse 27. Men ‘burned in their lust for one another’. That is not some made up ‘orientation’, that is sin.
You also claim they aren’t homosexual, think again. Mitch Grassi, who is a member of the group, states he is a homosexual and a Christian – https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488- from his twitter feed, he states this – ‘I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.’
It always amazes me when people come here to comment, leave their opinions, and don’t even bother to investigate what’s being said. Ignorance is rampant in professing Christendom. This is why Christ said to the ‘religious’ Nicodemus, ‘you must be born again, or you will not see the kingdom of God’.
If you truly are concerned about a lost sinner, you will give them truth and not embrace or gloss over their sins.
This story is tragic, but it does reveal the depravity of the heart of the homosexual – http://christiannews.net/2016/12/29/police-say-gay-rights-advocate-husband-who-committed-suicide-molested-10-adolescent-boys/
The vileness of sin is NOT to be made light of – the blackness of a heart entrenched in this sin, by choice, unfolds in the above story. Yet many want to shrug this off as no big deal? Warn sinners to flee the wrath to come! Urge them to be reconciled to God through Christ.
I saw that story as well. Very tragic. Some argue that homosexuality and pedophelia are part of the same spectrum of disordered sexuality.
This is a great truth that has just recently become a realization for me and I am grateful for you posting this. This is something I wished I had learned earlier but I got caught up in the approval of the world and not wanting them to think I was being judgmental or legalistic but Christine Caine spoke at Passion and made the statement that obedience is not legalism and this hit me like a ton a bricks. Thanks for speaking the truth! I am glad I ran across this blog and read your comment.
Thanks for being bold in the truth of the gospel. Our culture has Americanized Christianity so much and we mold our faith to the world’s acceptance of us so that they don’t call us legalistic or judgmental, but obedience is not legalism. I loved reading this, thank you. It was encouraging and convicting at the same time!
Excellent! Thank you. Talented as they may be, as a Christian I cannot condone their practices any more than any other sin.
I see your points, but I don’t agree with this post for one reason, mainly. Just because I like their music doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. We, as Christians, are allowed to be around Atheists, Agnostics, and other religions, and we don’t have to agree with them. It’s one thing to say, “Here, look at this cool song!” and another to say, “Here, look at the people in this band’s beliefs!” I can enjoy their exceptional music without caring about their political agenda. I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not, that’s their choice. I may not agree with them, but I can still enjoy their music. The people are not our enemy here on Earth, and arguing that their music can’t be enjoyed because they have different beliefs isn’t going to change their minds, or help convince any other non-Christians to convert. Avoiding all people who disagree with us will result in us all losing a sense of the reality of what people actually go through and not being able to empathize and actually help the world find a way to the true path. I understand your points, and why you say we should protect ourselves from sin, but if we shelter ourselves completely, we have no way of aiding the lost people. As I said, the people are not our enemy.
I’m glad that you felt comfortable sharing your views, Tyler. However, there is this quote:
“I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not, ”
This is a very confusing statement to me from someone who considers themself a Christian when I read verses like those in 1 Cor. 6 which tells us who will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
I will always care about gay people because they are lost according to the scriptures. I will not be silent and uncaring to the point of not letting them know the truth of God’s Word.
What I meant by this is that it’s their choice. I, as an ordinary citizen, probably have no chance of persuading them to change their stance. I listen to their music for the sake of listening to their music, not their political views. To me, it doesn’t matter whether they support gay rights or not. I love the gay people as I’m called to do; I love all people. And because I care, I can tell gay people that they’re sinning, because I want them to share my eternity. However, the chances of me encountering a group like Pentatonix are very slim, and swaying their ideology even slimmer. If you don’t want to listen to their music, that’s your choice, but I’m not going to stop listening because of something completely unrelated to their music. If you’re going to stop listening to music because the people who made it are sinners, then you can’t listen to any music. Ever. Not Mozart, not Christian music, not even children’s recitals. Every single human on Earth is a sinner, so it’s hypocritical to say you can’t listen to or enjoy this music because the people who made it are sinners and then listen to any other piece of music ever. My point isn’t that they aren’t sinners, it’s that you can enjoy acheivements made by sinners without constantly thinking, “Oh, these people are sinners.” Otherwise, you can’t enjoy art, scientific discoveries, mathematical achievements, or anything and everything you use in daily life.
Well, Tyler, I am a sinner saved by God’s grace. The Apostle Paul wrestled with his sin. I am not claiming to be perfect and I really have no desire to stop you from listening to this group’s music. It should, however, be known by the Christian community that they support ideas that and not Godly. My point was that you stated:
“I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not,”
That you “didn’t care” that they supported an overtly unGodly lifestyle was the issue I had with your statement. You don’t seem to have retracted that statement with your last one. Honestly, the more I grow to understand the results of sin, the more I hate it. But, I have to admit that there are times when I am frustrated just like the great Apostle.
And we are called to love, not to judge. God will judge all in the end according to his laws. It’s not up to us to decide who is going to heaven and who isn’t. We can love people, and tell them they’re doing wrong, but we ultimately can’t make that decision for them.
In response to Tyler
You think loving others means you overlook their sin? Is it ‘judging’ when we stand against sin and warn sinners to flee the wrath to come? What would you say the apostle John is doing here when he said ‘For John had said unto Herod, “It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother’s wife.” Mark 6:18. Or when Stephen stated this, ” Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. “- Acts 7:51
True biblical love is when we point sinners to their sins and tell them to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus. You don’t seem to have the things of God at the forefront, you’d rather just glide along through life thinking this world is for you to enjoy and get the most out of life. You forget the bible says NOT to love the world or the things of the world – that would certainly include music from unregenerate sinners. You have no understanding what ‘deny self’ means.
Christ told Nicodemus ‘ye must be born again’. The new birth is essential in order to understand the things of God as well as the condition of man. This is a work of God the Spirit and not according to man’s will or works. May God do a work in every heart that professes Jesus yet loves the world.
Sir, I’m sure you’re an intelligent and kind person in real life, but I’m getting tired of this. I’ve read the Bible, I have founded my faith upon fact, and research I’ve done, conclusions I’ve reached. You have directly accused me of several completely unfounded things and made rather large assumptions. First of all, read my entire comment carefully, not just that reply. You may notice that I said I will tell the people I love that they are sinning, because I want to share heaven with them.
You accused me of ‘overlooking sins’ and not sharing in your definition of biblical love. However, your definition is precisely what I was trying to convey. My point was that I can and will tell people that they are doing wrong and need repentance, but I cannot make that choice for them. That is their decision, not mine to make. They must choose to follow Christ. If I could save people by simply dunking them underwater and telling them to repent, don’t you think I would be at the pool, dunking people? If I make a decision for them, it’s not from the heart, it’s peer pressure, and it doesn’t matter if they say they are Christian when they don’t actually have faith. That won’t save anyone.
Now, I will admit to struggling with things of the world, I enjoy the world. I know and understand what self-denial is. No one is perfect, and I’m willing to bet you struggle with similar things. The very fact that you are using a computer is evidence that you use things of the world, or you and I wouldn’t be having this debate.
It may seem easy to portray a perfect soldier for God over the blind mask of the Internet, but we are all broken people. As your name implies, we are unworthy. It’s damaging to us, as an ego is sinful, and to the reputation of Christians to pretend we are perfect. And before you say that me being worried about the reputation of Christianity is a thing of the world, let me say you’re halfway right. Yes, we shouldn’t have to care about our reputation, but I think we must. Non-Christians look down on us because our reputation is of a bunch of self-righteous bumbling morons who go to a temple to stand in a circle and pat each other’s backs for being great. We need the world to see that we are, in fact, broken people that have been redeemed.
Also, most of us think of things other than God some of the time. We shouldn’t have to, but it is a struggle to keep focused on the only all-powerful force. Seems silly, doesn’t it? We can’t focus on something like that? But I promise you, I am constantly striving towards it. I am not gliding along with the world, I am trying to be a light in the best way I see fit, which is to build relationships with people and give well-thought-out reasoning and evidence in my faith to the people around me. That doesn’t equal being one with the world, but it does require me to be able to understand people. I stand up for my views, and everyone I am around knows it.
As for your point about me listening to ‘music from unregenerate sinners’, I have addressed that in my post. If you don’t want to listen to them, fine. I don’t have a problem with that. But they don’t use foul language in their songs, and their songs themselves don’t promote the gay agenda. Their songs have nothing to do with their political stance. Their songs themselves aren’t full of sin, like a lot of the modern music today.
If you don’t want to listen to music by sinners, however, you are no longer allowed to listen to any music. No Mozart, no Christian music, no children’s recitals. Every single one of those songs, including songs without words and songs by Christians, is from a sinner. There is literally no perfect human in the entire history of the world besides Jesus. So next time a niece, nephew, or other little child has a recital, you will have to look them in the eyes and say, “No, I can’t go, because you are all sinners, and the people who wrote that music are sinners. You and your friends sin, so I can’t enjoy or promote your music. Sorry!” I believe Phil from Germany put it best, saying,
“If we go After that System, that we boycott everybody who is a sinner, we can do nothing, becurse we all are sinner and theres No sin worse that the other. Jesus teached us to love everybody. He went to the sick, becurse the need the doctor… Hate the sin, but love the sinner.”
So you see, if you boycott everything made by sinners, and everyone who is a sinner, you will have to float in the air, naked, eyes closed, hoping no sounds of humanity drift up to you. You could no longer use anything created by humans, or interact with anyone.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. You cannot force people to take your point of view and drop theirs. You don’t have to agree with anything I say, but I personally will try to build relationships with people and give them a reason to convert to Christianity, other than threatening them with a doom they don’t believe in.
And one more thing- aggressively accusing your fellow Christians of sins over an internet article doesn’t help anyone. We are all Christians, and we all fight for the same things. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Cheers!
Going back to the original post, Tyler, DiT stated:
“While at least one member of the band publicly claims to be a Christian, two other members are openly gay. Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda. All this at the same time as taking advantage of the evangelical Christian market which may be their top target in selling albums.”
You write, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
I must ask you then Tyler, what will we be divided over? If it is not homosexuality then what?
Here is another of your statements:
“aggressively accusing your fellow Christians of sins over an internet article doesn’t help anyone”
I strongly disagree. I think posts like this one are much needed in our times. Young people are very confused by so much acceptance of a lifestyle that is not pleasing to God. Someone’s got to stand up for the Bible’s take on this issue. If it isn’t Christians, then who will it be?
Again, well said Chris. The elect of God will stand firm against sin, and persecution will come….more often than not, it comes from professing Christianity. There will be no compromise with God’s elect.
“Young people are very confused by so much acceptance of a lifestyle that is not pleasing to God. Someone’s got to stand up for the Bible’s take on this issue. If it isn’t Christians, then who will it be?” Exactly! The ruler of this world is thrilled that professing Christians remain silent on this abomination to God – it helps to further the satanic agenda. However, what are the warnings from Christ the Lord on lukewarmness? Rev 3:16 “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” All who straddle the fence and refuse to ‘rock the boat’ will be rejected by God.
Thanks unworthy 1 and I can relate to your name.
I grew up in a time when most Contemporary Christian Musicians made little money in spite of their talent. A few of those were able to make a living off of their music but the majority of the talented artists I listened to were more interesting in saving souls than becoming famous or being wealthy.
I remember the band Mustard Seed Faith coming to my Junior College and they knew we couldn’t pay them much. They came anyway, as did Chuck Smith. Pastor Smith came for nothing and it was a bit of a drive from Costa Mesa to Walnut, California.
How things have changed. So much is about the artist(s) these days and not the message. And then there are groups like this one. They may sound good and they may have written a few good songs but what kind of witness are they? I submit they are a horrible witness. They do much more harm than good. The verse you have shared from Revelation is one of the reasons I feel this way.
I completely agree with you, Tyler:)
tyler- i completely agree:)
You seem to jump to a few conclusions, I will only address a couple. Where did I say we must boycott everything? I didn’t. Where did I give my ‘point of view’? Let me give the verses I partially quoted, the one about denying self, “Mar_8:34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.” As for not loving the world or the things of the world, look at 1Jn_2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” If you love God, the world and all it uses to entice will be repulsive to you.
Where did I state we must be ‘perfect’? Again, I never said nor implied such. As for listening to various forms of music, you are going down rabbit trails with your response. If you want to listen to their music, that is your decision. Here is my actual point – they claim to be Christian, yet some are homosexual. You don’t care about that, so you say. It doesn’t bother you that they make such a claim and yet practice an abomination? It has not ONE THING to do with their music, rather, it is their claim to be Christian and yet indulge in homosexuality that should be the issue.
Here’s a question, you say ” I am trying to be a light in the best way I see fit”. So, you are reliant upon yourself to be the light? Why not rely completely upon Christ? Are you in charge or is Christ?
You say “The very fact that you are using a computer is evidence that you use things of the world” – let me clarify – The bible does not say you cannot use the things of the world, the bible says ‘do not LOVE the things of the world’.
Lastly, you say ” They must choose to follow Christ.” This is unscriptural. Sinners do not have the ability to ‘choose’ Jesus or to reject Him. It is God who saves, God who gives the gift of faith and salvation through His grace, ” For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Eph. 2:8-9
To say a sinner can choose would be classified as a ‘work’, which the text clearly says does not save.
Lyn
Yeah; they don’t claim to be Christian either. They just sing Christmas songs for their listeners. The amazing talented beatboxer, Kevin, is a Christian and their bass, Avi, is Jewish I believe. They are both straight, but it really shouldn’t matter to us what their sexual orientation is:)
Sophie
Please get informed before you comment.
Mitch Grassi, who is a member of the group, states he is a homosexual and a Christian – https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488- from his twitter feed, he states this – ‘I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.’
Another disturbing part of your comment, ‘it really shouldn’t matter to us what their sexual orientation is’. We are called to point out the sins of those who profess to believe, from 1 Thess. 5:14, Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 1 Cor. 5:11
We are not to even eat with a sexually immoral person, yet you think it’s no big deal if one who professes to believe is immoral? Do you even read a bible?
Chris,
You are spot on when you say ” I am not claiming to be perfect and I really have no desire to stop you from listening to this group’s music. It should, however, be known by the Christian community that they support ideas that and not Godly. My point was that you stated:
“I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not,”
We are ALL sinners and none are perfect. Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Yes, the Apostle wrestled with sin as we all do. To accuse the elect of God who stand for truth as being ‘perfect, judgmental or self righteous’ is the norm. The issue isn’t any of that, the issue is with Tyler’s comment, “I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not,”
How can a blood bought born again believer be so flippant about such grievous sin? This is nothing more than tolerance and compromise, and we are never called to do either of those. This sinful tolerance is covered up under the guise of ‘love’. Truly sad.
lyn
My point is this: Everyone sins. We shouldn’t get worked up over something we can’t change, like another person’s ideology. Especially someone we can’t even witness to. It is, in fact, their choice as to whether they follow Christ or not. God gave us free will. Whether they choose the right path or not is for them to decide. You can only control yourself. I’m done arguing over the internet, where things can be so easily misinterpreted. We are all Christians here. Not everyone interprets the Bible the same way. If we truly want to witness to the world and bring people to Christ, we must actually do that. Not argue with each other.
You were confronted over your statement, ““I honestly don’t care at all about whether they support gay rights or not,”which you refuse to clarify on.
Here is another error from you, “God gave us free will” – can you point me to the bible verse that verifies this statement?
Here is what the bible actually teaches, Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” All are in bondage to sin and cannot overpower it.
Eph 2:1 “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins”. All are dead in trespasses and sin, that includes every part of man, including the will. There’s more, but this will suffice for now.
No one here is arguing, rather, you are being called out for questionable remarks and wrong theology. Iron sharpens iron.
One last thing, speaking error leads others astray. God will hold all accountable who do such. Those who tell others they have free will to choose Jesus are speaking error, this is what is known as an ‘accursed gospel’.
Hey, noticed this and thought I’d give my say. There’s a plethora of evidence that God gave us free will. First, your ability to do anything. The fact that you can think for yourself means that God isn’t controlling you. If you didn’t have free will, it would be God playing with puppets. He gave us free will and we can choose him or Satan.
“O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”- Isaiah 48:18
In this verse, he makes it clear that we have the choice to pay attention or not.
The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.
Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5.
Actually, the first proof text you give has nothing to do with free will. What is the context of the chapter? Who was being addressed? Why was God reprimanding these people? Now, the statement that God gives us free will to choose Jesus is found in that text at all if you consider the answers to the above questions.
Here is what the Bible teaches about man, from Jeremiah 17:9, ” The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? ”
Heart is from the Hebrew word lêb and is defined as ‘inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding, mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory, inclination, resolution, determination (of will)’. Note that the human will is included; now, this ‘inner man’ which includes the will is ‘deceitful’, which means ‘ fraudulent or (intransitively) tracked: – crooked, deceitful, polluted’. It also is labeled as ‘desperately wicked’, meaning ‘incurable, sick’. This is the state of the whole inner man, it is entirely corrupted by sin. Yet, you claim the ‘will’ is somehow able to choose Jesus, even though in it’s natural state, it is corrupted by sin. The bible says otherwise. From 1Co 2:14 ‘But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.’ The ‘natural man’ is one who is in their natural state, lost in sin. This text tells us that a sinner cannot perceive the truths of God and His word because they are not able to, it is all foolishness. Sin blinds the mind from understanding the truths of God’s word and Christ’s Gospel. This is why Christ told Nicodemus ” Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” To ‘see’ means to understand, discern. The new birth is a supernatural work of God the Spirit and must be done in the heart of the sinner before they can understand their vile condition and need to be saved. Take note of this, from John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Man’s will is not a free entity that functions on its own. It is tainted by sin and cannot rightly discern anything concerning sin and salvation unless God first does a work.
No sinner will ever come to Christ by his/her own free will. John 3:19 ‘ And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.’ Here is the judgment of God, and why this judgment looms over sinners: men ‘love’ darkness. To ‘love’ here means ‘take pleasure in, long for , to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly’. This love goes down deep and has a firm grasp on every sinner. Commentary from David Guzik says it nicely, “What keeps people from belief in Jesus and salvation? It is sin, or is it unbelief? Really it is both, because people will not believe because they love their sin.” This is from Matthew Henry, “Wretched man is in love with his sickness, in love with his slavery, and will not be made free, will not be made whole. [3.] The true reason why men love darkness rather than light is because their deeds are evil. They love darkness because they think it is an excuse for their evil deeds, and they hate the light because it robs them of the good opinion they had of themselves, by showing them their sinfulness and misery.” Christ and His gospel exposes the sins of man, confronts the sinner straightforward and demands him/her to leave their sins. They must part with what it is they love the most. They are confronted by God and His Christ concerning their heinous rebellion and they will never part from this natural love of sin apart from God’s mercy and power bringing them to Himself.
Coming to the light condemns the sinner, for their deeds are evil. They know their deeds are evil so they avoid the light, thus, they think they can avoid condemnation. The conscience testifies against them, so they silence their conscience. Creation cries out against sinners, so they deny the Creator and uphold a lie – evolution. Sinners know murder is a sin, so they slaughter the unborn for the sake of ‘women’s rights’. Sinners know homosexuality is wrong, so they call it ‘gay’. Sinners know marriage is supposed to be a man and a woman, so they re-define marriage and usurp the authority of the most High God. Sinners know idolatry is wrong, so they suppress the truth of God’s word and fashion multiple ‘gods’ to worship, including the ‘god’ of self. Sinners love their darkness – and the more they suppress God’s truth, the deeper into that darkness they go. They will never come to the light; to Christ and His gospel truth, ‘lest his deeds should be reproved’ [vs. 20] – or ‘ reprove, rebuke, discipline, expose, show to be guilty’
Here is the Thayer Definition of ‘reproved’:
1) to convict, refute, confute
1a) generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
1b) by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2) to find fault with, correct
2a) by word
2a1) to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
2a2) to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
2b) by deed
2b1) to chasten, to punish
The sin nature does NOT want to be confronted by a thrice holy God. The doctrine of ‘free will’ refuses to acknowledge this truth. Sinners will never come to Christ because the will of man is bent on darkness and hates the light.
This is why earlier in this chapter the Lord told Nicodemus ‘ye must be born again’. It is this new birth, being ‘born from above’ that enables the sinner to ‘see’, to comprehend, understand, discern Christ and His gospel.
Correction, “Now, the statement that God gives us free will to choose Jesus is found in that text at all if you consider the answers to the above questions.” should read “Now, the statement that God gives us free will to choose Jesus is NOT found in that text at all if you consider the answers to the above questions.
I will never not support and promote Pentatonix because of it’s members’ faiths. How stupid. If you like the song, you have right to feel that way. Maybe in the Bible it’s a “sin” but so is judging others. So is stealing. So is wanting your neighbor’s life. Let him without sin cast the first stone, hmm? Ring a bell? I’m Christian, and our job is to LOVE OTHERS. I’d love ptx, Mitch and Scott included, even if I didn’t have faith.
Carly,
How is pointing to the sin of pentatonix- their claim to be Christian yet practicing the sin of homosexuality- judging? Do you know what judging actually means? Apparently not. You know one verse in all of scripture and you use it as a club, and out of context, no less. The elect of God are called to judge righteously, which has been done here.
Loving others does NOT mean you embrace/coddle/compromise when it comes to sin. If you ‘loved’ these homosexuals, then you would call them to repentance. You would plead with God to save them.
The problem with all who defend sin stems from the superficial Christianity that permeates America. Everybody is a ‘Christian’ because they say they are. The fact is this, unless you are born again by God {John 3} you are NOT a Christian. You are one of those whom Jesus spoke of when He said ‘Why do you call me Lord Lord?’.
BTW, biblical love is not an emotion, it is an action. If you love sinners, warn them to flee the wrath to come. Preach Christ crucified and repentance. Then, leave the results to God.
You love this band and its unrepentant homosexual members, so in essence, you love what God hates – sinners who love their sins and hate God.
Oh well, guess I’m going to hell.
Oh. Wait. John 3:16. Nevermind!
God, go preach to someone who will empathize with your warped point of view. I’m not hating on two innocent people because some keyboard warrior tells me to. 🙄
Would you care to back your comment with evidence? You claim “Oh well, guess I’m going to hell. Oh. Wait. John 3:16. Nevermind!
God, go preach to someone who will empathize with your warped point of view. I’m not hating on two innocent people because some keyboard warrior tells me to.” – who said anything about hating? Quoting God’s truth is a ‘warped view’?! Oh my.
Let God’s word be true…
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Also, read this from John’s gospel, Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
And lastly, this command by Christ himself from Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
You pull one verse out and think you are saved because you claim to believe, yet you have no desire to call sinners to repentance. Rather, you exalt your ‘god’ of love and haven’t a clue about the God of the Bible, who is thrice holy and detests sin. God does NOT embrace sinners who continue on in their vileness, there is not a verse in all of the bible that states God will allow unrepentant sinners into His kingdom. May He have mercy on you, for you appear to be void of understanding His truth.
Carly, actually Jesus told us to judge, and to judge correctly. He also told us to to preach the gospel in addition to loving people. The first thing in presenting the gospel is to point out the reality of sin.
I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. Think about Peter and his confession of sin after the miraclous catch of fish.
However I agree that God’s grace, mercy and love all have a purpose according to the gospel, and the purpose is change our lives, to bring us out from darkness and from our sinful ways so that we could do what is righteous in God’s eyes.
His grace and love is abundant and more than enough as long as we follow this purpose or as long as we struggle fighting against ourself for this purpose at least. We cannot misuse God’s grace and love for our own purposes, not being open to let God change our lives from deep within for his purpose.
Did Christ point the woman at the well towards her sin? In Acts chapter 8, did Peter point out the sins of Simon? In Acts 2, what did Peter say that pricked the hearts of those he was preaching to? Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, WHOM YE HAVE CRUCIFIED, both Lord and Christ.
How will sinners see their need to be saved if we do not use the law to point them to their sins? The heart must be plowed before the good news is proclaimed. iFRepentance and Christ crucified and raised from the dead must be proclaimed. In today’s ‘christianity’, sinners are told God has a wonderful plan for them and they must invite Jesus into their hearts. That is not even close to being the true Gospel.
Jasper, how can a sinner repent if not faced and convicted by his/her sin?
@unworthy1: we are talking about the same 🙂
@Delight in Truth: facing wrongdoing is necessary for repentance, I agree.
But is it our task to confront, in general? We are called to be witnesses, and hence we can talk about our own wrongdoings and that we have been saved. We are not called to be prosecutors in God’s kingdom, rather we are called to be witnesses of the gospel.
Confronting someone with her/his wrongdoing is and stays mostly the work of the Holy Spirit (cf. Jn 16:8-11). Of course the Holy Spirit can call us to confront some specific people with some specific wrongdoings — we cannot achieve it on our own anyway.
Was John wrong here – Mark 6:18 ‘For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” See how he pointed out the sin of adultery and stated it wasn’t lawful? This is how the Holy Spirit works, by taking God’s truth and convicting sinners. How can they be convicted if no truth is given? No one here is stating we have the power to convict, but we certainly should not keep silent concerning sin. Both the law and the Gospel should be given, and God will either save or leave that sinner in their sins.
Jasper, on the issue of confrontation, that is done as part of church discipline for Christians. The issue at hand is preaching against sin, and using the moral law and sin as the starting point in presenting the gospel.
Once you have that basis, you then present the solution for sin, Christ. Do not be afraid to preach against sin.
“No one here is stating we have the power to convict, but we certainly should not keep silent concerning sin
We certainly should not keep silent about what is good and what is evil in God’s eyes. This is part of our call as a witness, or as a friend of the King.
Facing specific people with specific sins of theirs and convicting is a bit another story for me. Sometimes the boundaries are not clear, and just talking about what is good and what is evil in God’s eyes sounds like an accusation. What is important to remember that we have no merit in being saved, we are not better on our own than whom we talk to and on our own we are sinners deserving damnation ourselves.
I hope you understand the difference between talking about good or evil and about convicting. The latter is the job of the Holy Spirit!
You’ve been given multiple examples from Scripture on sinners being confronted concerning their sins; yet you don’t see to grasp what’s being said. We haven’t the power to convict, that is the work of the Holy Spirit. NO ONE here denies that. What does He use? God’s word. This isn’t about us being ‘better’ than others, which is why when we point sinners to their sins we quote Scripture. IF the sinner takes issue with that, their issue is with God…not us.
Pointing sinners to their sins doesn’t mean we think we aren’t deserving of wrath….where did you get this idea from? If we stay silent about sin, which is what Satan prefers, then sinners will be content with continuing on in their sins.
I hope you understand the necessity of speaking out against sin, and using God’s word to do so.
Against sin is for me a consequence for those who speak to, not a starting point for us.
I agree that one of our purpose is to be against sin, however often indirect methods can be far better than direct ones.
It seems you have little desire to confront sinners concerning sin, perhaps this is why the Apostle Paul prayed, Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Not sure any here said that we must start off by pointing sinners to their sin. There is not a set method to follow, surely sin must be addressed.
“to make known the mystery of the gospel” — exactly that should be our focus! The mystery of the gospel.
No one is denying that, however, you cannot leave out sin. None of the apostles did, nor did Christ. The bible says Christ died for the ‘ungodly’. What does that mean? Why do sinners need saved? You cannot present Christ crucified without telling the sinner why He was crucified – for the sins of those who believe. Being ‘generic’ in your evangelizing will not be empowered from on high. You must be led by the Spirit and you must proclaim the ‘whole counsel’, just as the Apostle stated in Acts….
Let’s say I have little desire to use the words that Delight has used.
This appears to be a problem with today’s ‘church’, it has no backbone. It does not want to ‘offend’, it is milquetoast.
So, by your standards, John the Baptist should never have said it was unlawful to commit adultery, Stephen should never have shouted, ‘you stiff-necked people’, Peter should never have accused the crowd of murdering Jesus, and our Lord should never have pointed the woman at the well towards her sexual sin. No wonder America is filled with goats disguised as ‘Christian’, after all, we would NOT want to ‘offend’.
the true, biblical Gospel IS offensive to the ‘natural man’. To preach Christ crucified is hideous to a sin loving sinner; to state He died to atone for sin is offensive. To tell a sinner of their sins and of a Holy God is never favorable, it is only when the Spirit does a work in the heart that Christ becomes a necessity to the sinner. However, the watered down gospel that most proclaim is of no affect, for it is an accursed gospel that has no power to save. So, man must invent methods to coerce the sinner, methods like the ‘sinner’s prayer’, or walking an aisle, or inviting Jesus into your little ole heart. Mix that all together and presto! You’ve just created a goat dressed up as a Christian.
I have no issue with confrontation on a purpose.
The purpose has to be justified on a case-by-case basis, and we need guidance from the Holy Spirit here.
What I definitely do not agree is that the only way to proclaim the gospel to first convince about sins.
Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Paul speaks of the purpose of the law in Romans 7, “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
I agree about the law. The law is relevant in God’s kingdom, so if there is sin in the congregation it has to be confronted.
Again, “to testify the gospel of the grace of God” is here… That is our focus 🙂
From sifting through your comments, it becomes clear you have no desire to speak of sin. Again I ask, and you do not answer concerning all the examples given from Scripture pertaining to the sin of sinners who were addressed by John the Baptist, Peter, Stephen, Christ….why did they point sinners to their sins? Notice in Acts 2 Peter pointed sinners to their sins, and they were ‘pricked in their hearts’, after that, the Gospel was given. Do you dispute that as well?
Can you give scriptural support for your view? Where does the bible say we should not speak of sin, or not give the law? How does a sinner come under conviction of sin if you tell them Christ died and was crucified…and rose on the third day? What was the purpose of this death, burial and resurrection? The dead in sin sinner does not understand sacrificial death apart from the law.
How had Peter come to admission to his sins at the miraclous catch of fish? I guess Jesus made it wrong then…
You are pursuing human logic with respect to how does a sinner come to conviction. I am trusting God’s Word far more than human logic.
I do not think the burden is on my side to come with scriptural support first. You seem to claim that pointing out on sin is a pre-requisite for proclaiming the gospel, however almost all references you had are about testifying the gospel of grace of God or to make the mystery of gospel known…
So far you have shown two very specific stories, John to Herod and Peter to the crowd in Jerusalem for Passover. With respect to the latter, it is an important context that the crowd was there for the Passover and hence they were present for Good Thursday and Good Friday.
You have not provided scriptural support so far why these two examples have a message for us how to proclaim the gospel at each time.
NO ONE HERE IS DENYING THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT – let that sink in.
I give scripture verbatim – as it is written – and you call that human logic?
Again, if you cannot support your view with scripture as I have done, then what you present is what you call ‘human logic’.
Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? READ THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER – MEDITATE UPON IT. THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART – HOW AND WHY? BECAUSE THEIR SINS WERE EXPOSED AND THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVED TO CONVICT THEM.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. NOW PETER GIVES THEM THE GOSPEL, BUT ONLY AFTER THE HEART HAS BEEN PLOWED.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
That is scripture….verbatim. It is the work of the triune God in saving sinners, using sin and the gospel.
Another example is found in Acts 7, I will only give a portion…
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
take note, the Holy Spirit does a different work in these hearts – they were convicted, but instead of crying out how to be saved, they gnashed their teeth. Here is how God works – He saves some and leaves others in their sins, according to His will. BUT – SIN IS NEVER OMITTED.
Still waiting for your scriptural support for your view…..
“I do not think the burden is on my side to come with scriptural support first. ” Here’s your error – you think you can present your opinion as ‘fact’. You accuse me of using human logic when, in fact, it is you who presents an opinion with no scriptural backing.
You still did not answer the questions I asked so let’s try again –
Did Christ point the woman at the well towards her sin? In Acts chapter 8, did Peter point out the sins of Simon? In Acts 2, what did Peter say that pricked the hearts of those he was preaching to? Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, WHOM YE HAVE CRUCIFIED, both Lord and Christ.
Again I ask, and you do not answer concerning all the examples given from Scripture pertaining to the sin of sinners who were addressed by John the Baptist, Peter, Stephen, Christ….why did they point sinners to their sins? Notice in Acts 2 Peter pointed sinners to their sins, and they were ‘pricked in their hearts’, after that, the Gospel was given. Do you dispute that as well?
Why is it you refuse to address these questions biblically? Many spew out opinions, but the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked who can know it?{Jer. 17:9} Unless God the Spirit teaches you truth, you cannot know it. Unless you are born again, you cannot see – understand/comprehend – spiritual truth. This is the teaching of the word of the Lord found in John chapter 3.
P.S. it’s been my experience when people cannot support their view with scripture, they resort to falsely accusing and name calling. It’s best not to respond than to sin against God and falsely accuse others.
Thanks for repeating the passage that I have replied to (Acts 2), and ignoring my response, and my question about your conclusion (If Peter has done so at that single time then we must do it the same way from time to time) being slightly different from the quoted scripture itself, and yes, I have called that difference as human logic being applied to the Scripture. I have not called the Scripture human logic at all, just your conclusion.
I have told that we are called to be witnesses and to speak about the gospel. Do you need scriptural support for these claims? Really? You have provided some already.
As far as I understand the question here is if talking boldly about the gospel is enough or if it is not enough because we need to talk against sins first in order to people understand the gospel.
My support is 2Pt 1:3-9 with respect to this question.
“His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.”
Everything except for pointing onto our sins? Everything, no exceptions.
And yes, for those who have been cleansed, forgetting about being cleansed of past sins is blindness, I do not question that either.
@Delight in truth: Since long ago I have undestood my call is not to be a preacher. Being a preacher in a Christian congregation and witnessing in front of others are a bit different contexts.
Jasper, we have common ground in our approach to the gospel. Yes, we must show love and be loving towards people. I fully agree. Yes we must be witnesses for Christ and show compassion, express evidence of the fruit of the Spirit and beatitudes. We agree on those.
But the gospel must be complete in it’s presentation. I am an elder and an evangelical preacher, so I must preach a COMPLETE gospel. In order for the gospel to be complete it must present the good news of Christ dying in place of sinners, and it must also present the consequences of rejecting Christ. Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented, otherwise we are dealing with an incomplete and potentially false gospel. This applies to preaching in church or telling others who never heard of Christ.
It’s like taking the entire scriptural view of God: all his attributes, not just love, grace, goodness, kindness, mercy etc. We must consider that God is a consuming fire, wrathful, holy and just. All His attributes are to be considered together as part of the Divine Trinity. Same with the gospel.
Well said Delight in Truth, I doubt it will be well received. Rabbit trails and straw man arguments are all that’s been presented; they are time consuming and not worth continuing on and on.
There’s a reason why the Apostle Paul stated he has not failed to preach the ‘whole counsel’. This is unpopular today because that would include sin.
@Delight in Truth:
Thanks for the clarification. I completely agree that the complete gospel must be presented, including consequences of rejecting Christ.
In your comment I started to react on, it was not clear that “pointing out sin” is meant “pointing out rejecting Christ”. I think the original short comment was at least easily misunderstandable. I am glad we could come to a common understanding.
Presenting consequences of rejecting Christ is an integral part of the complete gospel, not a pre-requisite for it, and I still think this is an important difference.
Then you understand ” Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented, otherwise we are dealing with an incomplete and potentially false gospel.” -sin was the point you disagreed with at first. Now you agree sin must be spoken about?
You state ” it was not clear that “pointing out sin” is meant “pointing out rejecting Christ”. Pointing out sin and rejecting Christ are not one in the same. There are multitudes of sin besides unbelief. I don’t think DIT meant that rejecting Christ is the same as pointing out sin, nor is it the only sin sinners are guilty of.
There are many who profess Christ in our day, yet continue on in their sinful ways. Many claim to be Christian, yet continue on in homosexuality. By your standards, are they saved? After all, they haven’t ‘rejected’ Christ. This is why your logic is still faulty.
Please stop giving words into my mouth which I have not spoken.
I think you largely misunderstand me, however I think I have written clearly, also formiulated my concerns cleary, and it is not neccesary for me to repeat my thoughts any more.
I do not care about your conclusions about what I could have thought any more.
Here’s what you stated, “In your comment I started to react on, it was not clear that “pointing out sin” is meant “pointing out rejecting Christ”. Are you saying these two are one in the same, and that is the only sin – unbelief – that should be addressed? This statement is vague and unclear at best. I added no words, I simply repeated what you said and the illogical content of that statement. Where did DIT claim that pointing out sin means pointing out rejecting Christ?
I am asking for clarification of your statement. Also, do you agree with this from DIT, ” Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented, otherwise we are dealing with an incomplete and potentially false gospel.”?
Looks like you forgot where my debate with DIT stated: with comment by DIT on June 5, 2017 @ 2:44 pm and by me on June 6, 2017 @ 6:12 am.
If you compare DIT’s new comment with his old comment, you will understand my reaction I hope.
My understanding is that we have closed the discussion with DIT, and hence I do not understand your point with your questions. I was clear about my concerns I am convinced DIT understood them.
I really do not see the need for further clarificiations, and as you have misunderstood me a few times already I think it would be pointless.
From DIT June 5th comment, “The first thing in presenting the gospel is to point out the reality of sin.”
Now, the latter half of his most recent comment, “But the gospel must be complete in it’s presentation. I am an elder and an evangelical preacher, so I must preach a COMPLETE gospel. In order for the gospel to be complete it must present the good news of Christ dying in place of sinners, and it must also present the consequences of rejecting Christ. Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented, otherwise we are dealing with an incomplete and potentially false gospel. This applies to preaching in church or telling others who never heard of Christ.
It’s like taking the entire scriptural view of God: all his attributes, not just love, grace, goodness, kindness, mercy etc. We must consider that God is a consuming fire, wrathful, holy and just. All His attributes are to be considered together as part of the Divine Trinity. Same with the gospel.”
Essentially, DIT says the SAME THING in both comments – sin MUST be preached. “point out the reality of sin.” -“Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented”. These two snippets state sin must be spoken of. How, from that, did you come to this conclusion, “In your comment I started to react on, it was not clear that “pointing out sin” is meant “pointing out rejecting Christ”. Where did DIT state that rejecting Christ is the ‘sin’ he was referring to? Here’s what was said, “the consequences of rejecting Christ”. He went on to speak of wrath, which is the consequence of unbelief.
What I see is that you still refuse to acknowledge that sin must be spoken of. It would appear you aren’t being clear on purpose. This is why you will not answer this question, “do you agree with this from DIT, ” Judgement, hell, sin, wrath of God and other unpopular aspects must be presented, otherwise we are dealing with an incomplete and potentially false gospel.”? You have jumped through hoops to avoid answering, which is telling.
If your gospel is void of speaking out against sin then pointing the sinner to the Savior, it is powerless. I pray none of my lost loved ones are ever confronted by you and your ‘gospel’ .
You still completely misunderstand me.
I am not really interested in that any more.
And your unwillingness to clarify and answer any questions leaves me no option but to state what I’ve already stated. You aren’t interested….I bet not!
As previously stated, those who cannot support their view from scripture use the tactics you use – falsely accuse, divert away from the topic at hand, use rabbit trails and straw man arguments, deflect back to the one calling you into question, etc.
I believe I have assessed the situation perfectly and your leaving everything so vague proves so. Don’t bother replying with your ‘misunderstood, not interested’ typical response.
“Just as the world was not ready for the New Testament before it received the Old, just as the Jews were not prepared for the ministry of Christ until John the Baptist had gone before Him with his clamant call to repentance, so the unsaved are in no condition today for the Gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for “by the Law is the knowledge of sin.” (Rom. 3:20) It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground which has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take their fill of sin, is to give that which is holy unto the dogs. What the unconverted need to hear about is the character of Him with whom they have to do, His claims upon them, His righteous demands, and the infinite enormity of disregarding Him and going their own way.
The nature of Christ’s salvation is woefully misrepresented by the present-day “evangelist.” He announces a Savior from hell rather than a Savior from sin. And that is why so many are fatally deceived, for there are multitudes who wish to escape the Lake of fire who have no desire to be delivered from their carnality and worldliness. The very first thing said of Him in the New Testament is, “Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people (not “from the wrath to come,” but) from their sins.” (Matt. 1:21) Christ is a Savior for those realizing something of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, who feel the awful burden of it on their conscience, who loathe themselves for it, who long to be freed from its terrible dominion; and a Savior for no others. Were He to “save from hell” those still in love with sin, He would be a Minister of sin, condoning their wickedness and siding with them against God. What an unspeakably horrible and blasphemous thing with which to charge the Holy One!
Should the reader exclaim, I was not conscious of the heinousness of sin nor bowed down with a sense of my guilt when Christ saved me. Then we unhesitating reply, Either you have never been saved at all, or you were not saved as early as you supposed. True, as the Christian grows in grace he has a clearer realization of what sin is — rebellion against God — and a deeper hatred of and sorrow for it; but to think that one may be saved by Christ whose conscience has never been smitten by the Spirit and whose heart has not been made contrite before God, is to imagine something which has no existence in the realm of fact. “They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick” (Mark 9:12): the only ones who really seek relief from the great Physician are they that are sick of sin — who long to be delivered from its God-dishonoring works and its soul-defiling pollutions.
Inasmuch, then, as Christ’s salvation is a salvation from sin — from the love of it, from its dominion, from its guilt and penalty — then it necessarily follows that the first great task and the chief work of the evangelist is to preach upon SIN: to define what sin (as distinct from crime) really is, to show wherein its infinite enormity consists; to trace out its manifold workings in the heart; to indicate that nothing less than eternal punishment is its desert. Ah, and preaching upon sin — not merely uttering a few platitudes concerning it, but devoting sermon after sermon to explaining what sin is in the sight of God — will not make him popular nor draw the crowds, will it? No, it will not, and knowing this, those who love the praise of men more than the approbation of God, and who value their salary above immortal souls, trim their sails accordingly. “But such preaching will drive people away!” We answer, far better drive the people away by faithful preaching than to drive the Holy Spirit away by unfaithfully pandering to the flesh.” – from A.W. Pink’s ‘https://www.the-highway.com/presentdayevangelism_Pink.html ‘
@unworthy1:
On the same grounds you accuse me of loving the praise of men, you could accuse Apostle Paul of loving the praise of men because of complimenting Athenians about the altar of the unknown God. After all, he could have
pointed out idolatry instead as he was greatly distressed by it…
Paul did not seek praise of men and neither do I.
I kindly ask you try to understand the context for my comments, please. Do not lift them out from their context into yours and interpret it against your context.
I guess this blog might have been an internal blog for a church or for Christians long time ago, but after some topics in the past more than 1 year it also attracts non-Christian readers!
It does not make sense for me to go into clarifications again and again as long as you are stuck into the context of sin, law, and I would say I do not err too much if say this is the context of “to those under the law I became like one under the law”… Unless you release your context you necessarily misinterpret my words, my intents and “my gospel”.
Let me be clear, what you have called as my gospel — which I fully understand — has nothing to do with my gospel at all. Your accusations lead to the topic to cheap grace vs. precious grace (according to Dietrich Bonhoeffer) and I am on the precious grace side.
If I take your context for clarifications you demand from me, I risk my message to be understood, and not only by you but by other readers as well — my message is in the context of “to those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law”.
Here lies the problem – – – you came on this thread and stated “I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” You were challenged to prove your point biblically, you never did. Now you keep going down rabbit trails and avoiding the original argument – proving your point from Scripture.
I don’t want your continual opinions and diversions from the original question. If you cannot support your statement concerning leaving sin out of any gospel presentation, then stop commenting. Time is a valuable thing to waste.
What I’ve seen all over the internet are professing Christians who disagree yet cannot give one ounce of biblical support for their opinions. God’s truth trumps man’s opinion every time.
There will be no further responses to your comments unless it answers this question – “I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” – where does the Bible say we should not speak of sin? Please, chapter and verse and no more opinionated rants.
I have only disagreed about if it was the first thing in presenting the gospel to point out the reality of sin. My claim was that it is not necessarily the first thing. I was completely consistent about it. If you read the quoted sentence in its context, it means the same.
You seem to attribute to me a claim that it is not necessary at all to point out the reality of sin for presenting the gospel but that is a false attribution, most likely due to misinterpreting the quoted sentence due to taking it out from its context.
Again, you are not supporting your beliefs with scripture, which is what is being asked of you. Where in the bible does it state “I have only disagreed about if it was the first thing in presenting the gospel to point out the reality of sin.” ? Where does God’s word such? Only respond IF you can provide chapter and verse….“I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” – where does the Bible say we should not speak of sin? Please, chapter and verse ONLY
Where in the bible does it state “Again, you are not supporting your beliefs with scripture, which is what is being asked of you. Where in the bible does it state “I have only disagreed about if it was the first thing in presenting the gospel to point out the reality of sin.” ? Where does God’s word such? Only respond IF you can provide chapter and verse….“I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” – where does the Bible say we should not speak of sin? Please, chapter and verse ONLY” ?
here’s the point you are missing- you state this “I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” Now, if you are only giving an opinion, what is the point of that? As Christians, we MUST back what we claim with His truth – if we cannot, then it’s best to leave our opinions to ourselves lest we sin against Him.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
From 2 Timothy 2:15 – Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You simply cannot spew out an opinion on something loosely based on the bible without backing your opinion with scriptural truth. If you state something as ‘fact’ and God’s word doesn’t back what you say, then you are guilty of sin, as the verses from Deut. and Proverbs listed above attest to.
This is why I am pressing you for scriptural support for your original statement. All you’ve done is taken me down rabbit trails and evade the need to give scriptural support for your belief
So, where does the bible state we must back our claims, as Christians, with scripture? 2 Timothy 2:15 for one….
As I have mentioned, you take my sentence “I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel.” out of context and misinterpret it.
I am not going to support your misinterpretation of my text. My last comment on your misinterpretation of my sentence above.
This was my second warning to you, with respect to Titus 3:9-10.
Please stop pulling verses out of context and using them as a sledgehammer. You only have a desire to argue and be divisive, as your lack of biblical evidence to support your opinion proves.
You must be born again, your lack of understanding proves you are void of this new birth. May God have mercy on you and open your understanding.
By the way I was referring to the following verses as scriptural support so far:
Lk 5:1-8
2Pt 1:3-4
Acts 17:16-31
1Cor 9:19-23
Your ‘proof texts’ do not even come close to proving what you claim, that ““I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” For starters, Luke 5 is about Christ’s disciples, who are already followers of Him. There is NO gospel presented in those verses, only a display of Christ’s power and deity, which causes Peter to cry out in verse 8. He sees his sins only after seeing the power of God – the same could be said for Isaiah in Isaiah 6 when he sees the vision of a majestic God in all His glory and cries out – “woe is me”. This is what happens to God’s elect – the closer the get to God and rightly understanding His holiness, sovereignty, etc. the more they see their own vileness.
You are now taking verses out of context in an attempt to prove a non-existent point. Your opinions fall short of biblical truth. The evidence is in the inability to prove such from His word.
Who talked about proof texts???
I was talking about scriptural support, as you have asked for it.
FYI – proof texts and scriptural support have the same meaning. No, I did understand your statement completely. When pressed for scriptural support, you’ve done a ‘song and dance’ to avoid this pressing. Why? Because the bible does NOT support your ‘view’.
You have no idea how to rightly divide God’s truth, we must be extremely careful when presenting a personal view as biblical fact. You pull verses out of their original context and force an unintended meaning upon them – this practice is called ‘eisegesis’ and it is not biblical. I offer this advice – don’t come on Christian websites and attempt to debate your views unless you have done a thorough study first.
I never have claimed “we should not speak of sin”.
My claim was it is not the first thing in presenting the gospel.
It is part of presenting the gospel, but in many cases, not the first thing.
Otherwise, I am not going to provide support for your misinterpretations.
You would be better off ceasing from commenting, all you are doing is putting a spin on your original claim ““I slightly disagree about if pointing out the reality of sin in presenting the gospel. ” This statement implies sin should NOT be mentioned at all as part of a gospel presentation. Now you are back peddling. I’ve wasted enough time on your opinionated views. The elect of God will see your errors, take note, and move on. This is why Christ said, ‘you must be born again, or you cannot see the kingdom of God’. Unless you are born again by God the Spirit, you will not understand His truth. You will put your own spin on it, as you have done. May God’s grace and mercy do a work in your heart.
‘This statement implies sin should NOT be mentioned at all as part of a gospel presentation.”
This means you did not understand my sentence in its context and attribute claims to me that I have not made.
After my warnings to unworthy1 that he is still misunderstanding me and claims that I have certain views which I do not have, as foolish controversies I have nothing to do with unworthy1 from now on.
I am very sad to experience this with a born-again brother or sister.
Jasper and unworthy1, after blogging for a few years and also managing a theology group on FB I came to understand that without the body language that is so critical human communication, things can get “lost in translation” when engaging in polemic online.
Based on the info exchanged here, I think there is much common ground between us, even if there may be some disagreements over some things, which I hope would be secondary.
On the issue of preaching about sin while presenting the gospel I would gather that Jasper is against pointing out individual sin of individual private persons in public. I agree with that. When dealing with individual sin (of people in church) we must follow the prescription in Matt 18:15-17 before going public.
Public sin of public persons is fair game, tho… like in the case of Herod and John the Baptist.
On the issue of sin in GENERAL, like sexual sin, theft, deception, slander, gossip, love of money, etc. we must address it and condemn it as teaching for the church, and conviction for those hearing the gospel and are not yet converted.
Sadly ..they are Not Christian
this is true.
Jesus loves you all!
anyone excited for star wars 8?
send it!
Wow, I know this is an old article but what I just read shocks me . I enjoy listening to Pentatonix I also love Jesus Christ with all my heart and do mission work. I always think Christmas is a magical time of year and I believe this because so many Christmas songs are being played and God’s word is being spread! There are thousands of unbelievers listening to Pentatonix Christmas album Mary did you know and they’re hearing a story that they may have never heard before. Jesus himself went into the bars, he loves all we don’t have to like and agree with something people do but it’s our job to still spread the word and inspire people. I agree being gay is a sin, however I too am a sinner. Im a glutent and many times I spend way too much money sgopping. Have you ever lied? The reality is, yes, we are all sinners! And the Bible says all sin is equal. And the only way to get into heaven is believing in Jesus Christ I don’t care if a non-Christian who is gay is singing the story of baby Jesus, the point is people are buying that song and hearing that message. That story is what we need to get that story out there as much as possible ! God knows what he’s doing, and trust me he uses a lot of non-Christians to witness to others. I’ve heard so many testimonies of people coming to Christ in this way.
dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing! In the bible it tells us to love one another many times. Matthew 7: 1 – 5 says very clearly……….”Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” -That is the word of GOD.
Amen
Wow, you are all very judgmental. The Bible does not say that us as believers should be judging non-believers. God knows the heart of man, not use lowly humans. We are not to judge and condemn, for that is the job of God. He gave this group beautiful voices, and gay or not, which is irrelevant to the songs that they’re singing, that are singing songs that bring praise to God and the spirit of Christmas. What’s the difference between listening to a gay person sing Christmas songs and listening to a non believer sing anything else? There isn’t one really. Do any of you listen to anything else that’s not gospel music? The Beatles? Rolling Stones? Jackson 5? Doubt any of them are Christian but if there’s nothing profane in the music, there is absolutely no issue.
Holly,
How is pointing out that Pentatonix, who claim to be Christian yet have practicing homosexuals in their band judgmental? BTW, no I do not listen to any of the music you listed. Have you ever read 1 Cor. 5? Please do, then cry out to God for understanding.
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
It’s okay for all the lukewarm Christians to trot out their ‘judge not’ phrase, not even understanding the context of that, and in so doing, are guilty of the very thing they accuse others of. You all are judging those of us who point out the unrepentant ways of this group, which only proves how tragic the state of ‘Christianity’ is in this nation.
Shelly, you do realize that verse means you are guilty of the sin you are speaking out against right? So, you are pulling God’s word out of context and using it as a club in an attempt to silence those who point out the unrepentant sin of homosexuality by some of the Pentatonix members. Do any of you people understand what repentance is?
Thomas,
I pray the owner of this blog removes your vile comments.
Quick little note
The five members of Pentatonix are not all Christian. Avi (the bass) is Jewish. Scott and Mitch ,the tall blonde and the guy with the very high voice, respectively, have not said anything about religion. Kirsten, the female, has also said nothing about religion. Kevin, the beatbox and cello-ist, is Christian.
From the article “While at least one member of the band publicly claims to be a Christian, two other members are openly gay. Furthermore the band is active in promoting the LGBTQ agenda. All this at the same time as taking advantage of the evangelical Christian market which may be their top target in selling albums.” Why would the Christian cello player be a part of this?
In America, being ‘Christian’ is nothing more than a verbal profession with no heart attachment, no evidence of the new birth that is necessary in order to be saved. When the world and the church look alike, you know you are in trouble.
The only ones supporting lgbtq “agenda” are the actual gay ones. And maybe Kevin has tried to get them to repent. He doesn’t make their life choices.
The only way we can be sure he doesn’t support it is IF he speaks out against it. It seems he’s left the band, but NOT because of anything related to the homosexual support, rather, the time that consumes him – https://pagesix.com/2017/05/12/pentatonix-member-announces-hes-leaving-the-group/
How do you know he is a Christian? Why would any Christian be a part of a group that has two practicing homosexuals AND promotes that agenda? A true believer would never be a part of that.
This is not about him making their choices, this was about him being a part of a band that celebrates abomination AND promotes it. By NOT speaking out, by being in that group up until now, he is guilty by association. Being silent is telling.
This is what is wrong with Christianity in America, you can blend in with evil, remain silent, and still be a Christian. Not according to the bible…
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you 2 Cor. 6:17
If he says he’s a Christian I’m apt to believe him. Why does he have to speak out against it publically? Being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to actively go against people. Isn’t this why LGBTQ+ people are turned away from the church? We are a kind people who were made in God’s image. I’m not sure God would argue with people online about whether or not they should be listening to a band with gay members. He would be celebrating their gifts first and then talking to them about repenting. Quoting scriptures at people and telling them that they are not Christians isn’t the kindest way to turn people to Jesus.
Speaking out against sin is ‘actively going against people’? So, when John the Baptist told Herod it wasn’t lawful for him to have his brother’s wife, he was actively going against him? What evidence do you see that this professing Christian is born again? What fruit, other than a verbal profession? Remember, even the demons believe, and shudder. Is their profession legit as well?
Now, the ‘church’ is not a brick and mortar building. The true church of Christ are sinners called out from every tribe, tongue and nation, by God, and saved. It’s the redeemed that make up Christ’s church. Never should unrepentant sinners be considered a part of His church. Read the verses I gave earlier from 1 Cor. 5. Then read 1 Cor. 6:9-11.
Would God celebrate unrepentant homosexuals singing about baby Jesus? Where is that in the bible? You have NO clue who the God of the bible is. Telling people they are Christian, when they bear NO fruit, is more cruel than pointing them to their sins. The God of the Bible is thrice holy and despises sin. Never would He celebrate someone using the gift he gave them to exploit their abomination, supporting LGBT rights is just that.
It seems you have no desire to stand against sin and for God, ecumenism is the theme of the day. You uphold what God despises – wickedness.
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Eph 5:11
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. Hebrews 13:4
If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. Ezekiel 3:18
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Timothy 5:20
So you have a problem with quoting God’s word? How will a sinner know of their sins and of Christ apart from His word? Is it any wonder America is the most godless, immoral and vile nation on the face of the earth?
All I was saying is that you could be a little kinder. I wasn’t saying quoting scriptures was wrong, I was just saying that sometimes directly quoting scriptures at people isn’t the best way to get through to them. The point is these people are singing about God. Their sexual orientation doesn’t defile the words they sing. And Kevin, the Christian, might’ve have told them to repent. But that doesn’t mean he has to do it front of the whole world. He doesn’t have to prove his faith to you. Merry Christmas!
Where was I unkind? So, if you do not quote scripture to ‘get through’ to them what do you use? Read Romans 1:16.
It isn’t ‘sexual orientation’ either, it’s perverted lust, immoral behavior and an abomination, that is how the bible defines it. It is a sin that is repulsive to God, which is what abomination means.
IF Kevin is a follower of Christ, why would he continue in a band of unregenerate sinners that promote what God hates? So much for ‘deny self’.
So, you can support abominations, just as long as you don’t sing about them?!? You can love the world, even though the bible says NOT to?
From Kevin’s website, “Excited to sing for you all tonight! Know that our Christmas show tonight only comprises of Christmas songs, religious songs, and uplifting songs. We just want to get you all in the Christmas spirit the best way we know how…through song.” Tell me, how do unregenerate sinners know anything about the God of the bible? I went through his website and saw nothing relating to Christ, salvation, etc….nothing. I did see a lot of self promotion, and accomplishments of ‘self’. Do you understand the biblical command to die to ‘self’?
Strange, for a true follower of Christ never exalts self.
Tell me, do you understand what Christ meant when He told Nicodemus ‘you must be born again, or you will not see the kingdom of God’? Do you understand when Christ stated ‘unless you repent, you will perish’ in Luke 13?
They also aren’t singing about supporting LGBTQ+ rights.
Again, Merry Christmas!
FYI,
From Mitch’s twitter feed – Mitch GrassiVerified account @mitchgrassi
I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.
What is wrong with that statement?
Here is what God’s word states about this,
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you
Now, take note of verse 11, such WERE some of you- a verb in the past tense form, meaning you cannot be a practicing homosexual AND a follower of Christ…period.
You literally tell people they are not Christians. You talk down to people, insult them; I find that a little unkind. I’m not arguing that homosexuality is right or wrong, I’m just saying people can sin and know God. I’m saying that they sing of God and people listen to it.they may not be Christians themselves but they do spread the word of God. Please remember to be kind.
Telling others to examine the fruit is NOT talking down. Giving God’s truth is the only thing that breaks the heart over sin. You embrace everything and assume it is Christian. I have just now presented evidence to the contrary, using GOd’s word to prove so.
Do remember that God hates as well, your ‘no hate’ moniker is what the liberals like to use.
Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
If by ‘being kind’ you mean embracing and making excuses for what God hates, then no thanks.
Do you understand what Christ said when He told Nicodemus you must be born again? Do you understand the command by God to repent? Can someone live in continued habitual sin and be a Christian? Take note of 1 John chapter 3…
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
And Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You would call Peter unkind as well, for this is what he told Simon the sorcerer…
Acts 8:20, But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
here is that link https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488
This should interest you as well…
Made it happen, indeed. Pentatonix dominated Season 3 of The Sing Off. They were noted on the show for their ability to “sing, dance, harmonize, and put together a respectable arrangement in just minutes.” They covered songs like “E.T.” by Katy Perry, “Piece of My Heart” by Janis Joplin, and “Stuck Like Glue” by Sugarland, as well as many more popular hit singles of the time.
The Sing Off also offered Pentatonix a platform to raise awareness for issues facing LGBT youth—a cause important to all of the group’s members, but of special significance to Mitch Grassi and Scott Hoying, who were both openly members of the LGBT community. During the show, the group visited the offices of The Trevor Project and filmed a public service announcement with the organization. from https://www.outandaboutnashville.com/story/capella-group-could/51152#.WkBvdXlG3Gg
So, they DO use the stage as a platform to promote LGBT rights, contrary to what you say.
Understand that to live a homosexual life is to be ‘given over’ by God to the sin you choose, and THAT is a form of judgment by almighty God on the God hating sinner.
This is the teaching of Romans 1:24 “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.”
Romans 1:26 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against
nature.”
Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”- commentary from Davis Huckabee, “. Men call this “an alternate lifestyle” but the Bible is clear that it is sin of an especially shameful nature. All sin has a natural recompense or payment in kind, and this sin is no exception. Many have tried to deny that AIDS, the disease peculiar to homosexuals, is a Divine retribution, but they are fooling only themselves. However, not all homosexuals get AIDS, but they all receive the reward of their sins “in themselves.” No one profits by any sin, but here, sin has a direct effect upon the minds of those who practice it. Warped morals make for warped characters and personalities because the mind is affected by their rebellion against God. Homosexuals can be saved, (1 Cor. 6:9-11), but not many are, and those who are, cease to commit this.”
Romans 1:28 “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.”
Here is an explanation of what that recompense was. Paul engages in a play on words: “Because they reprobated the knowledge of God, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,” [Alford], or: “As they thought fit to cast out the acknowledgment of God, God gave them over to an outcast mind,” [Conybeare]. A “reprobate mind” is a mind void of right judgment. “It denotes a mind judicially blinded, so as not to discern the difference between things distinguished even by the light of nature,” [Haldane]. They did not like to retain a full knowledge of God, (so the Greek means); they had but a dim memory, and that was a caricature, [Robertson], and so God gave them over to their own desires to have an incorrect knowledge of moral and spiritual truth. “Not convenient” means not fitting or suitable to rational and moral beings. In the following verses, Paul gives examples of what he means. Sin, like cancer, is a progressive evil: it never travels alone, and it never gets better except by grace.” Davis Huckabee commentary
Well this has been a fun conversation. I see that I will not be able to show you what I am trying to say, so this will be the last time I will reply. Merry Christmas and God bless you.
It’s best to defend your views with scripture, if you cannot, then what is your point?
I see you didn’t bother answering the question on the new birth or repentance, which leads me to believe you are void of a right understanding of both. May God have mercy and grant you what it is you lack
It’s usually those who have a very shallow understanding of true, biblical Christianity that comment on threads like this and falsely accuse God’s people, and defend and make excuses for what God despises….sin. Downplaying sin, making excuses, etc. all because there is NO understanding of who the true God of the bible is…to most, He is only ‘love’. When God’s word is given in defense, you run away and claim you are misunderstood. Your greatest need is to get with God and cry out for mercy.. You have no idea who God is. Call that unloving, truth is never pleasant to those who cleave to error.
Ok you cannot compare an a-capella group with two gay men, to a gay pastor preaching about living an LGBT+ lifestyle. Christians understand homosexuality to be a sinful desire — just like the desire to murder or steal. I think the fact Pentatonix chose to cover these songs is beautiful, and we need to leave it as that. People could come to God by watching their Christmas videos, who knows? God uses anything He wants to draw people closer to Him, so if that’s a Pentatonix video for someone, then so be it. Plus, it’s not up to us to judge and decide if someone is a false prophet. You don’t know anything about their Spiritual walk with God; they could find Him in singing those Christmas songs for all we know. This post is just so unnecessary and we need to love people as Christ commanded us to.
Also lol I go to Hillsong and we accept gay people for who they are, but we would never place them in a position of leadership, ya feel? We need to love the gays and not condemn them. I mean lol how do you expect to act like Jesus if you’re gonna say, “Well they’re gay, get rid of them.” Yeah no. We don’t have to conform to the patterns of the world to love a gay person. If ya love em a bit, they’ll see God in you and who knows what could happen aye? Maaaaaan it’s almost 2018; church aint as traditional as what it used to be obviously. BUT, that doesn’t mean we gotta conform and change according to the world. The church has gotta make a stand like never before, but we gotta be accepting of everyone first. How will the world come to know the love of God if we don’t show it to those who clearly need it the most?
Talented, talented group. You are right on target on your perspective. The upside is that some great Christian songs are being sung. So that good.
Sounds like they are walking the fence..
James, they are not walking the fence… They are in fact on the other side of the fence, living in unrepentant sin.
Every piece of music you have ever listened to was written and sung by a sinner. Why are us Christians so set on acting like this sin is 100x worse than any other sin. Its not. And acting this way turns people away from God, which He mourns. All sins are the same. We all sin. All music is promoted by sinners. End of story. This article is absurd.
Dear William, there is an infinite difference between a sinner who has repented of his sin and a sinner who continues to live/enjoy/promote his sin.
Pentatonix continues to promote the lifestyle described and some members even live this unrepentant lifestyle.
The absurdity here is your lack of discernment.
In reality, we all continue to promote our sin. We never stop sinning. Its part of us. Its ingrained in our DNA. Its not an excuse to sin, but relax. I guarantee you there are people you are close to or members of some of your favorite bands who commit the same sin over and over. Maybe its adultery or whatever. You just don’t know it becuase its easier to hide than being gay. But its no different. Condem the sin sure. But we don’t need to act like we have to hate these people and boycott their music over it. We are all sinners, we do not judge. God judges. To command we must boycott this amazing band over some of the members sins is insane. All people sin. You don’t know their hearts. You don’t know the hearts of apparently approved bands. Its very possible members of other bands struggle with constant sinning.
You haven’t read 1 John 3 have you?
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Those who have been born again by God have the Holy Spirit. True believers do not make sin a practice. That doesn’t mean we do not sin, it does mean we do not willfully engage in sin, in this case, the abomination of homosexuality. Also, study repentance, for the bible commands it. There are two practicing homosexuals in this band, one of which professes to be Christian. The bible states otherwise, go to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 – 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.’
Notice in verse 11 Paul is addressing believers, he states ‘such WERE some of you’. The verb is past tense, meaning you no longer practice the sins Paul listed in verses 9 and 10. The turning away from sin is the lifestyle of the true believer.
Look into Colossians 3:5, “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry” Paul tells believers to mortify, meaning ‘put to death’ the sin of fornication, which includes all sexual sin.
The bible never says it’s okay to continue on in sin, including the sin of homosexuality.
All sin is willful sin. You still seem to bad acting as though Christians dont willfully sin if they are real Christians. You say “Notice in verse 11 Paul is addressing believers, he states ‘such WERE some of you’. The verb is past tense, ****meaning you no longer practice the sins ****”
Thats not what that means. We will all continue to practice sins. Its unavoidable. We dont just stop sinning once we become Christians. You say the Bible says its not okay to keep sinning as you end your argument. This also has to be untrue in the sense you mean it as. Yes, its not okay to keep sinning, but we all will. Continuing to sin does not make us not Christian. A gay man can be just as much as a Christian as a man who commits adultery or lies everyday.
I get its a sin. I get its wrong. But hating these people, shunning them, boycotting them, writing articles about how terrible they are and how they are so bad we must not like their music or buy their records, is not the answer. They have their own struggle to deal with. We all have sins we struggle with. Its our curse. Treating them this way turns them farther away from God, and I promise you, that is not what He wants. This sin is no worse than all other sins. I say again, i promise you theres a member of a band you listen to all the time that struggles with a single sin on a daily basis. You just dont know it. and its no better or worse than struggling with this sin on a daily basis.
You missed the point….sexual sin like homosexuality is never, ever the ‘trademark’ of the born again believer. Sin is in the nature of every person born, imputed from Adam. All love darkness and will not come to the light, the love of sin is powerful. Only the grace of God can set the sinner free, as Christ states in John 8:36.
Again, read through 1 John 3, for it states the believer cannot habitually sin, such as the sin of homosexuality. If they do, they prove by their sins and love of it they do not belong to Christ, they have never been born from above.
Now, you are big on opinions but short on biblical proof. Show me, from scripture, where a unrepentant homosexual can continue on in that sin and still be saved. I’ve already shown you from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 they cannot – for the bible states such a one will not enter into God’s kingdom. ‘Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.’
You state this concerning verse 11, “Thats not what that means. We will all continue to practice sins. Its unavoidable.” So, God is a liar? He doesn’t expect you to repent and turn from the sins listed in the prior verses? You are on dangerous ground in stating God doesn’t mean what He says.
Who is right, you or God?
Who here has stated they hate anybody? Where was this stated? Please provide the evidence to back your accusation.
This breaks down your argument verse by verse. To believe what you believe by taking those verses in their most literal forms would require you to ignore other verses that discuss how we all sin. How all sin is equal. How salvation is eternal and cannot be lost. How God’s amazing Grace and Mercy washes us clean of all sins and allows us into the Kingdom of Heaven.
It mentions how its POSSIBLE, willfully continuing to sin might suggest you were never saved to begin with. But that requires you to know their hearty because it requires another factor in which they do so in resentment of God. You have no clue what these two members hearts are like. Yes they sin, we all do. But you have no idea if they do it in resentment of God, or if they struggle with it. Simply sinning doesnt mean you are not a Christian. The verse you use I would argue are attesting to those who gladly sin in resentment of God. Not Christians who struggle with continued sin.
One last question. Are you suggesting we only listen to music written and sung by only professed ad devote Christians? And to listen to music of a Gay person, or an unsaved person is terrible and worthy of being boycotted? Is listening to the music of an unbeliever just as bad to you as listening to the music of a gay man? If your argument is they are gay so they arent Christians so we must boycott their music and publicly trash them, shouldn’t you apply that to all unbelievers? Where is your article trashing the other millions of non christian artists? The problem here is you are singling out one sin and acting like its 1000000x worse than other sins. Or even worse than being a non believer. This is incorrect.
There are only two things more important than everything else in the Bible.
1. “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ (Matthew 22:37)
2. Love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:39)
All sins put Jesus on the cross. Maybe you should remember that as you think of the times you have sinned, and stop publicly trashing people and commanding boycotts of other people because of the sin they struggle with.
https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family-q-and-a/faith/willful-sin-after-salvation-and-eternal-security
I see you’ve used the same tactic as all who defend sin do….rabbit trails. This is about one homosexual in the band that continues on in his abomination and claims to be a Christian. THis has not one thing to do with secular music .
Now, to say the bible doesn’t mean what it says is nothing new, your tactic was used back in the garden by the serpent, ‘Did God really say?’ was and still is the greatest tool used by Satan to discredit what God has actually said.
Take note, “Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.” 1 Cor. 6:18 Does God expect you to actually flee from sexual sin, or just continue on in it? What does the text say? ‘Flee’ means to run away, in the opposite direction of sexual sin.
From Hebrews 13:4, “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral {anyone engaging in sexual immorality} and adulterous.” Did you read that? God will do what to the sexually immoral? He will judge -Greek ‘krínō’ – properly, to separate (distinguish), i.e. judge; come to a choice (decision, judgment) by making a judgment – either positive (a verdict in favor of) or negative (which rejects or condemns).
Still waiting for your biblical proof to support your views, do not give me your opinions, or what you think the bible means. I have quoted to you scripture verbatim, as it is written, and you call God a liar, claiming His word concerning homosexuality should not be taken literal.
You have no understanding of what biblical repentance is or means, Christ warns in Luke 13, ‘unless you repent, you will likewise perish’. That is literal.
Everyone wants to exalt this new age ‘god’ who just loves everyone just as they are, frolicking in their abominations , fornicating in their debauchery and thinking God is okay with it. The bible proves you to be wrong, you cannot cherry pick verses out of their context and use them as a hammer to try and beat down those who call you out. God is first and foremost holy holy holy – from Isaiah 6. God is the righteous Judge of all the earth, He will judge rightly according to His word.
The wages of sin is death – Romans 6:23 Take note, it doesn’t say it’s okay to continue on in sexual sin.
‘For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.’ Ecclesiates 12:14
Ecclesiastes 11:9
Rejoice, young man, during your childhood, and let your heart be pleasant during the days of young manhood. And follow the impulses of your heart and the desires of your eyes. Yet know that God will bring you to judgment for all these things.
Do you think God will not judge sinners who go headlong into their sins? His word says He will. The sin of homosexuality is in part a judgment from God upon all who reject His truth and desire to fulfill their filthy lusts. Because they suppress the truth, God gives them over to what it is they desire—-sin. That is judgment, but not THE final judgment that is rapidly approaching.
Your ‘god’ is nothing like the mighty, holy, sovereign, merciful, just, righteous God of heaven and earth. Your ‘god’ is not real and cannot save. Your ‘god’ is created in the figment of your imagination and is a reflection of you – a humanistic depraved thinking sinner who knows nothing of the truth in the bible because you are not born again – for without the new birth you cannot ‘see’, meaning know/understand anything about God, His kingdom and His truth.
Concerning Dobson and his errors–https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/the-teaching-of-james-dobson.php
Im not defending sin. All im saying is that you are wrongly singling out one sin as worse than all other sins. You are judging someone’s heart and publicly ridiculing them. You for whatever reason find the need to single this out, biblically shame them, but ignore the fact that there are millions of artists who sin and write music.
Would you put an alcoholic on the same level? Someone who commits sin after sin after sin and cant break from it? Drug addicts? Sex addicts? Would you go out of your way to shame them and demand they be boycotted. And suggest that Christains can’t listen to their music if they love God?
The bible is clear. And you tout your verses out that I argue mean something different than you are saying they mean. But openly ignore all the verses on salvation being eternal. Believing in Christ is the one way to salvation and sin does not take that away. Sin is wrong and we need to try not to do it. But we will. We all do. But that can’t keep anyone from the graceful and merciful open arms of Christ who is willing to wash all that sin away if we believe in Him.
Do you accept and agree with the actions of Westboro Baptist?
How would you respond if a gay man tried to attend your church? Would you shame him? Not accept him? Does the Bible not command us to be loving, non judgmental, and to spread the word of God to all? God would not approve shunning them. We are to minister to them. Accept them as people made in the image of God. Accept them, not the sin. I do not believe God would agree with you publicly ridiculing them like this.
Serious though. You think Christians repent their sin and never sin again? We all go through life continuing to live and enjoy our sin. Just because it not that sin, or many different sins spread out, we still continue to sin at times for shirt term enjoyment. Yeah we regret it later and know it’s wrong. But at the end of the day, its not much different.
If you continue on in sin and enjoy your sin, that is evidence you know nothing of the new birth.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Psalm 51 is a prayer of brokenness by David. He had been confronted over his sins, and utterly distraught because of his sins. Take time to read Psalm 51.
You see sin as enjoyment, God sees it quite differently…
Isaiah 59:2 2But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Psalms 5:4 For You [are] not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You. 5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity. 6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Psalms 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. 6 Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind [Shall] [be] the portion of their cup. 7 For the Lord [is] righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.
Psalms 45:6 Your throne, O God, [is] forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of Your kingdom. 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness.
Leviticus 20:23 `And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them.
Hosea 9:15 “All their wickedness [is] in Gilgal, For there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes [are] rebellious.
Numbers 14:18 ‘The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty’
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son [He] [says]: “Your throne, O God, [is] forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
May the Lord be gracious to you and have mercy on you.
One is a Jew, 1 is a seventh day advethist
And 3 are Christians. Two are openly gay. I think your just upset that these people aren’t straight white Christian males. They are all proud in their faith, and don’t discriminate unlike some humans.
William
You cannot prove from the bible that one can be a practicing homosexual and go to heaven. If you think you can, then provide verses that state homosexuals can continue on in their abominations and still enter heaven.
The problem with your brand of religion is it never speaks of repentance, it never warns of impending judgment for the disobedient…..your brand of religion is based on your opinions, which is all you’ve given here. The word of God has been given without my adding my personal ‘twist’ on the texts – showing God WILL JUDGE the unrepentant homosexual.
Can you show me where I said homosexuals are the worst sinners that ever lived?
To Jasper, This is what most of those who comment here do not get—-you cannot remain in sexual sin and be a Christian. Enough scripture has been given to support this, and yet the new age religion says God is wrong, a liar, doesn’t mean what He says, etc.
Repentance is foreign to most of you isn’t it? The new birth is foreign as well. Many prove from their comments they have no clue what repentance is, or what the new birth is and means. Instead, many of you argue from your own opinions – which do not compare to God’s word. So I ask again, where does the bible say you can continue in homosexuality and enter God’s kingdom? Chapter and verse please…..
You have some serious misconceptions on the Bible, Mercy, and Grace. We are all judged for our sin. But you seem to be ONLY focusing on the judging and wrath part, and COMPLETELY ignoring most of the New Testament that talks about God’s Grace and Mercy. If you believe in Jesus and trust him as your savior, God treats you as though you have never sinned. (A requirement to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
I’m not excusing sin. We are still commanded to try to not sin. And sin i still judged. But sin does not keep you from Heaven. Hence why there is only ONE unpardonable sin.
Mark 3: 28-29: Truly, I say to you, ALL sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.”
It doesnt say some sin will be forgiven. It doesnt say all sins but homosexuality will be forgiven. Jesus said ALL sin. They only think that keeps us from God’s Grace and salvation is not accepting him. Sinning doesnt mean we dont accept God. We can accept God and will slip up and sin. But Jesus says ALL sin if forgiven.
I also see you accused me of saying sin is enjoyment. What I said is that sin is often committed because people seek human enjoyment. Thats the whole point. I know how God feels about sin, you dont need to lecture me on that.
I also see you ignored my question on Westboro, and if you would treat other people who struggle with sin they cannot break from. Such as drug addiction, sex addicts, alcoholism, even lying regularly. Also, I’d like to know how you would treat and openly gay man that was seeking the word of God and came to your church? Would you obey Jesus’ second greatest command and love him as yourself? Would you preach to all the nations and spread the word of God to all people including him? Or would you publicly shame him as you have done here?
Again, I gave verses verbatim, how is that a ‘misconception’?
Still waiting for biblical proof stating you can be a practicing homosexual and enter God’s kingdom.
As for Westboro, I am not affiliated with that, so why bring it up? Can you stay on topic or not?
Look, I get the whole idea of continued sin and sin is judged and everything. I agree with you on that part as long as what you mean by it is willful intentional sin that you dont care about. In other words, we all continue to sin. So simply saying what Hebrews 10:26 means is that those who keep sinning lose salvation is simply wrong. If that were the case, we would all lose our salvation. This difference comes in how we feel about the sin we commit. Do we feel guilty? Do we repent? Do we try to stop?
So if you are saying that a gay person demonstrates that they dont feel guilty, dont repent, and doesnt care about their sin then in that case, maybe you are correct. But placing this judgement on a person requires you to know their heart. And you do not. Maybe it just something they struggle with. A sin they struggle with like the sins we all struggle with. You have no right to judge their heart and deem you know how they feel about their sin and their relationship with God.
With Pentatonix specifically, you say these two openly promote the LGBTQ agenda and so forth, which suggest its possible they may not have a relationship with God. But I say to you again. Why do you feel the need to publicly shame these people for being nonbelievers? Why do you command their boycott and basically say any Christian who listens to them is a bad Christian? Are you saying that if a Christian listens to music of any non-believer it is equally as bad? If these two are non-believers, what reason do you have for treating them worse than other non-believers? And why be so crude and judgmental to non-believers? Are we not commanded to be kind, and loving towards non believers so one day they might see the love of God? Did Jesus not eat dinner at the sinner’s house? Considering this is God’s command, and considering Jesus ate dinner with the sinners, we can surely listen to some good clean music sung by a non believer.
Again—-can you show from scripture where GOD says it’s okay to be a practicing homosexual and enter His kingdom?
Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved
God tells us that Believing in Jesus is the one and only way to Heaven. If you believe you will be saved. It doesnt say, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and dont be gay and you will be saved”
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Meaning nothing you do or dont do keeps you from heaven. All that is required is Faith. So you must make an argument that it is impossible for a gay man to have faith in God.
Mark 3:28-29: Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
Plainly says ALL SIN can be forgiven. This includes homosexuality. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is refusing to accept the Holy spirit. Sinning isnt a rejection of the Holy Spirit. If it was, we would all not be saved.
The reason I brought up Westboro is because you are acting as though you are holier than thou, and using the Bible to make your case. But what you, and Westboro does is uses parts of the Bible to make your case and justify your actions. You are ignoring Grace. You are ignoring Mercy. You are ignoring that all sin can be forgiven. You are ignoring Jesus’ command to love sinners. You are correct in God’s judgement and correct that sin is wrong and correct that continued sin is wrong. But refuse to factor in other parts of the Bible. You have to consider the whole Bible and what it says, not just the parts that make your point.
Also, you are ignoring the whole point of my argument. Why do you feel the need to single these people out if they are non-believers for being gay? Why not write an article saying Christians shouldn’t listen to any music written by any non-believer? If thats your argument, that Christians who listen to music sung by non-believers, why focus on just them because two members are gay? I know why. Its because you have this idea that being gay is worse than not believing in our Lord Jesus Christ. That is simply wrong. Its harmful to Christianity, and it breaks Jesus’ command to love one another, to eat dinner with sinners, to be kind to them, so that one day they may see the love and grace of God.
Nothing in that verse implies God saying it’s okay to continue on in the abomination of homosexuality. So again, can you provide a CLEAR text with God stating it is okay to practice homosexuality and enter His kingdom?
Those verses clearly do. You just refuse to see it. Those verse show that God’s grace is more powerful than sin. That He is willing for forgive ALL SIN if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. You fail to recognize that we all sin. That the sin of gay acts put Jesus on the cross just as much as the sin of stealing a grape. That ALL SIN is completely WIPED OUT and CLEAN from our hearts through the power of the cross which takes place if you believe in Him (Acts 16:31) and have faith (Ephesians 2:8). And THAT is what brings us into the Kingdom of Heaven. God’s Grace.
The ONLY requirement is to believe and have faith. There is ONE way to Heaven. Not being gay is not that way.
Again, where in that verse does God clearly state you can continue to be sexually immoral?
What you’ve done is impose YOUR VIEW upon the text, forcing it to say something it does not say.
Christ atoned for the sins of those who believe, that is NOT the issue here is it? Again, the apostle Paul says this in Romans 6, verses 1 and 2, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Now take note, I added NOTHING to those verses, I simply gave them as they are written.
Do you understand repentance? Do you understand what the new birth means and where it originates?
You come here challenging those who uphold God’s truth with nothing more than your humanistic views. When confronted to show, from the Bible, CLEAR verses that state homosexuals can continue being sexually immoral, you have no biblical evidence to support your view. Instead, you cherry pick a verse out of context and impose your meaning upon the text. You would do well to remember the warnings found in the bible concerning the word of God–
You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you. Deut. 4:2
Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
I will not respond to your rabbit trails, false accusations, etc. I am pressing you to prove, from God’s word, it is okay to be sexually immoral and enter His kingdom. IF you can, refrain from your rabbit trails, opinions, etc. Just use the bible to uphold your argument and nothing else, no attacking me and falsely accusing, etc. STAY FOCUSED on the topic at hand – the sin of homosexuality and whether or not one can continue on in this sin and still enter God’s kingdom.
Im done arguing with you because at this point we wont get any where. Ill leave you with one simple though I hope you think about.
You remind me of the Pharisees who mocked Jesus for eating dinner with the sinners.
The music in itself Pentatonix sings is not sinful. It doesnt worship Satan, it doesnt mock God. There are no sinful verses in their music. You simply have an issue that the members are sinners.
If you are saying we shouldn’t listen to the music of sinners, then you are saying Jesus shouldn’t have eaten dinner with the sinners. You are like the Pharsisees who mocked Jesus for loving the sinner. You draw people away from God. You are the reason some people hate Christianity. You bulk to the face of God and ignore His commands to be loving, to eat dinner at the sinner’s table.
That’s all I have to say.
And you remind me of the serpent in the garden who twisted God’s word and said ‘did God really say?!?’
You do the same as Satan does, “And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. Rev. 12:10
“Don’t speak evil against each other, brethren” (James 4:11). That which is here forbidden, is the saying of anything, be it true or false, to the harm of another. God requires that our words should be governed by “the law of kindness” (Proverbs 31:26), and anything which would hurt or injure the reputation of another is to be rigidly shunned. Whenever I cannot speak well of my brother or sister, I must say nothing at all. It is devilish to take delight in exposing the faults of fellow-Christians, and stirring up prejudice and bitter feelings against them (Rev. 12:10). God requires that our words should agree with love—as well as with truth. Since Christians are brethren, the last thing they should be guilty of is defaming one another.
“Do not pay attention to every word people say” (Eccl. 7:21). “Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causes to err from the words of knowledge” (Proverbs 19:27). Beware of evil listening! Those who receive tales about others, who delight to hear of the failings of their brethren, encourage evil speakers in their sin and are partakers of their guilt. “The north wind drives away rain—so does an angry countenance a backbiting tongue” (Proverbs 25:23). The Christian is not only bidden to abstain from all evil speaking himself—but is required to discourage this sin in others by frowning on it and endeavoring to disapprove it. Slanders would not be so readily spoken as they are—if they were not so readily heard. “Many abuse those spoken evil of, only in hopes to curry favor with those they speak to” (Matthew Henry). Disappoint them by showing your disapproval.
Since it be a grievous sin to speak evil of a brother in Christ, how much greater is the offence when it is committed against one of His ministering servants! True, they are not faultless, yet their blemishes are not to be blazed abroad—but should be covered with the mantle of love. “Why were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?” (Num. 12:8)—observe the emphasis—you should be afraid to speak evil against any one, much more against My honored servant. It is written, “Against an elder, receive not an accusation—but before two or three witnesses” (1 Tim. 5:19). It is at our peril that we say or do anything against the servants of God, for He reckons those who touch them as touching “the apple of His eye” (Zech. 2:8). “Touch not My anointed, and do My prophets no harm” (Psalm 105:15) is His express command. — A.W. Pink
I suggest you read the entire article at
http://www.gracegems.org/Pink/evil_speaking.htm
You pass judgment on me, accusing me of all kinds of opinionated views based on YOUR OPINION, all because you cannot clearly show, from the bible, where God says it’s okay to be homosexual and still go to heaven.
I have given you verses as they are written, not adding my personal opinion to them. I even gave definitions of the original Greek language on a couple of the terms, and you turn around and slander me.
I urge you NOT to engage in biblical discussions, for you are only heaping up more wrath by wrongly accusing me and slandering as well.
You are a fool. People are beautiful just the way God made them. Stop trying to shame people into becoming something they are not, simply because it was considered wrong back then. It never was wrong! People are just full of hate and prejudice when they cant understand something. I guess it makes you feel saintlike to tell other people they are going to hell.
Bryne,
Can you provide scriptural support for what you state? Where does the bible say people are beautiful just the way God made them?
Have you read this from Romans 3 – 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Are you stating homosexuality is not wrong? God proves you to be a liar IF that is what you are stating, from 1 Corinthians 6-9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
From Hebrews 13 -4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
How does God define marriage? From Genesis 2 – 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
The bible commands you to repent of your vileness, plead with God to save you.
This right here is why there’s so much bullying and judging in this world. We are all humans and it’s really sad when alot of the christain community are the ones doing the bullying and judging! I’m a christain myself and I love the LGBT community…why? Because we are all human and God created each and every one of us differently and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! This is the worst article I think ive ever read…p
What you call bullying and judging are what the bible calls warning and discernment. What does God’s word say about the sin of homosexuality? Do you know?
From 1st Corinthians chapter 6…..
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Are you warning sinners to flee the wrath to come? Are you telling them of their sins against a holy God, and of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? Or are you just embracing them and saying nothing about the hell that awaits them? IF that is what you are doing, how unloving is that?!?!? You have the audacity to come here and spew out your nonsense with not one ounce of scriptural support, then claim to be a ‘Christian’. It’s true, persecution against God’s elect always comes from the ‘religious’ bunch like you, who know nothing of a holy and vengeful God that hates sin and will punish all unrepentant sinners with eternal wrath. You defend what God hates – homosexuality – and claim ‘we are all human and God created each and every one of us differently and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! ‘—-you are a fool to make such a statement.
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Leviticus 18:22
Do yourself a favor, get off the internet, drop to your knees, and plead for mercy and forgiveness. Stop calling yourself a Christian, then turning around and defending what God calls an abomination. Calling yourself a Christian does not make you one – “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3
So, even if in the Bible God condemns homosexuality. He also said that the earth was 6,000 years old and was made in 6 days. Hmm. Another point was that humans all came from Adam and Eve. Which is also proven to be not true. So I guess if you don’t believe in being homosexual and naming it a sin, I guess you believe all these statements to also be true too.
From Genesis 3:20, And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
The word of God, who created all that there is, states Eve is the mother of all the living. What is your source of information? Man? Science, which is from man?
Here’s a lesson for you from God’s word –
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Psalm 118:8
For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. 1 Peter 1:24,25
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16,17
The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
Now, God is sovereign, eternal, holy, righteous, cannot lie, created all there is….man is sinful, deceitful, wicked and rotten to the core. So, are we going to believe you or God?
You’ll soon depart from this life, then your fate will be sealed. May God have mercy on you while you still have breath in your lungs. He will soon take your life and you will have no chance to cry out for mercy from Hades.
my grandfather is a Christian and so am I. I am such a huge fan of Pentatonix since 2014. I personally believe that the way that they love God is their business and I know for a fact both of the LGBTQ members are Christian and grew up Christian. they believe in God, but they like the same gender. if they believe, LET THEM BELIEVE. most LGBTQ people don’t believe in God, be THANKFUL THAT THEY PROMOTE SUCH A WONDERFUL BEING !
If you were truly a born again believer in Christ, you would never post the comment you posted.
What does God’s word say about the sin of homosexuality? Read 1 Cor. 6:9,10-‘Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.’
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:19
The bible commands sinners to repent, you simply cannot pursue and live in the abomination of homosexuality and be a Christian. The word of God proves you to be in error; may He have mercy on you and grant you the new birth. {see John 3:3}
” Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY” Matthew 7:21-23
I know I will not change your mind with an internet comment, but I feel that my belief in Jesus Christ and all he stands for and all he preached and all his life and death and rebirth compels me. Homosexuality is not wrong, it’s not immoral, it’s not a sin. Hatred is a sin. Judgment is a sin. Not loving our fellow men and women and orphans and widows is a sin.
My first suggestion to you is to purchase a bible, then go to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 – Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice, God states those who are homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you read verse 11, you’ll see it states ‘such WERE some of you’. Take note of the verb ‘were’, it is past tense. Repentance is key for the true believer, you forsake your sins, especially sexual sin. God empowers true born again believers to overcome the bondage of sin – see John 8:36
Now, read this from Leviticus 18:22, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
God says homosexuality is a sin, you say it isn’t. Who’s right, you are God? You are void of His truth and are more in line with Satan than you are with God and His truth. May He open your understanding and cause you to cry out as the tax collector did, ‘Lord have mercy on me, a sinner!’
Let me add this, it isn’t my mind that conflicts with your ‘views’. God’s word proves you to be in error, the ‘jesus’ you cling to is NOT the Christ of the Bible. Your ‘god’ is lovey dovey and has no problem with ‘sin’. The God of the Bible is holy, holy, holy – read Isaiah 6. The God of the bible calls homosexuality an abomination – read Lev. 18:22. It is repulsive to Him, a disgusting and vile thing. The God of the Bible commands sinners everywhere to repent – read Acts 17:30. Your ‘jesus’ looks nothing like the Jesus found in the Bible. You’ve created a god that you worship, and that god looks just like you and the unregenerate society in which we all live.
Dear Judy, it comes down to accepting Scripture as inspired by God. Jesus himself gave the definition of marriage in Matt 19
“4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh”
If homosexual relations are right, than we must disregard Scripture. If we disregard the Scripture that Jesus held to be inspired, what are we left with? What is our faith based on?
There is only one who can judge, and his name is Jesus. Until that day, I will listen to songs about the Lord and sing them aloud.
Sounds good, Justin. How about promoting Pentatonix which is the issue addressed by the article?
Justin,
Exposing unrepentant sinners who claim to be Christian is NOT judging. Repentance is commanded by God, those who are born again by God WILL forsake the sin of homosexuality.
Mitch Grassi claims to be a Christian, yet he is still practicing the sin of homosexuality-https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488
Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and see what God says about the sin of homosexuality, take note of verse 11 where it says ‘and such WERE some of you’, the verb is in the past tense. Now, do you think it’s okay to be homosexual and claim to be a Christian?
God despises outward religiosity, the harshest words Christ ever spoke were to the ‘religious’ Pharisees and Sadducees, who claimed to believe in God yet walked contrary to that claim – much like Mitch Grassi does.
You are spot on. Seeing some of the comments on here show exactly why a group like Pentatonix is dangerous. They sing songs that are inspiring and draw people into their web of deception with claims of being Christian. Jesus said to beware of false teachers and prophets that will lead people down the wrong path. They suck people in and slowly make them tolerant to a lifestyle that is adverse to God.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
This is what Jesus says about those that lead God’s children down the wrong path like Pentatonix does. Matthew 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
It would seem the problem lies with a desire to defend opinions rather than check facts and compare those facts to God’s word.
it also seems there is a huge lack of understanding and knowing the God of the Bible, who hates sin and will punish all sin, including homosexuality. The Bible commands sinners to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus. There must be a forsaking of sin, a breaking off from it, a clinging to Christ and His finished work.
Christianity in America is shallow, and costs nothing to most. They think you can cleave to your sins, live as you want, do as you want, and you will enter God’s kingdom. They have no understanding of what God says concerning how we are to live. They believe in a ‘god’ that is all love, based on emotion. Biblical love isn’t based on emotion, it’s an action, it’s a denying of self, a giving of self to and for others. True biblical love never ever embraces or makes excuses for sin in our own lives or the lives of others.
The road is narrow, few there be that travel this path. Wide is the road to destruction and it is filled with multitudes who profess to believe but have never been born from above by God, which is a MUST or you will not go to heaven {see John 3:3}. Their understanding has never been open by God, they are not taught by God the Spirit. Rather, they follow the teachings of men who twist and distort truth, to their demise and the demise of those who follow after them.
The first warning the Lord gave to His disciples when asked what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age…..” take heed that NO MAN deceive you”. That includes much of ‘organized religion’ and its hirelings.
I don’t understand all this movement and I’m choosing not to listen and waste my time trying to analyze it all…no more Pentatonix for me…
I would rather enjoy Pentatonix music, who don’t profess to be a Christian group than the so- called Christian groups and artists who don’t portray Christianity … they are the deceivers
Maureen,
I encourage you to check your claim that Pentatonix does not claim to be Christian, Mitch Grassi, who is a member of the group, states he is a homosexual and a Christian – https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488- from his twitter feed, he states this – ‘I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.’
It would seem Pentatonix is just as deceiving as the other Christian groups you claim are.
Thanks for the insight. I heard their song, Mary did you know. I loved it but I knew something was not right so I wanted to know more about the group
I appreciate the info on this group and am glad I investigated about them. I totally agree and I do not want to go along with anything that Scripture is against.
Reason(s) to support Pentatonix Christmas:
1. decent clean music, partly because of reason 2.
2. Kevin Olusola, professed Christ follower, and ‘gatekeeper’ of songs – http://www.hallels.com/articles/431/20130618/pentatonix-kevin-olusola-christian-talks-negotiating-christianity-world-pop-music.htm
3. Philippians 1:18
Reason(s) to oppose Pentatonix Christmas:
1. Some of the members support LGBT.
God’s word is perfectly clear- Mitch Grassi, who is a member of the group, states he is a homosexual and a Christian – https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488- from his twitter feed, he states this – ‘I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.’
Now, God says this concerning an unrepentant professing Christian, ‘But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one’ -1 Corinthians 5:11
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
For all those who throw out the ‘judge not’ garbage, here you go, “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.’ 1 Corinthians 5:12
This is why the Lord said to Nicodemus ‘you must be born again, or you will not see the kingdom of God’. Unless God the Spirit has done a supernatural work, there will be no understanding of truth. Most of these comments are a testimony to that fact – no new birth, no understanding. So you end up defending sin and making excuses as to why it’s okay.
The way I have understood those verses is that Paul was talking about those who are in your personal local church.
Take note of 1 Cor. 5:11, ‘But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat” .This command extends beyond when believers gather, we know this because Paul says ‘not to keep company’, and ‘not to eat’. Some commentary from Albert Barnes helps, “Not to keep company – To be wholly separated and withdrawn from such a person. Not to associate with him in any manner.”.
That would mean you don’t even buy the music of someone who says they believe in the Lord of Glory, yet are in an abominable sin.
Here’s more, from 2 Thess. 3:6, ‘Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.’ Again, Albert Barnes’ commentary helps, “A “disorderly walk” denotes conduct that is in any way contrary to the rules of Christ. The proper idea of the word used here (ἀτάκτως ataktōs), is that of soldiers who do not keep the ranks; who are regardless of order; and then who are irregular in any way. The word would include any violation of the rules of Christ on any subject”.
Going back to 1 Cor. 5, verse 9, ‘I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators’ – ‘not to company’ from the Greek word { Strong’s Concordance}
sunanamignumi: to mix up together, hence to associate with. It is a total separation, a shunning of the unrepentant sinner who professes Christ yet lives in a gross, immoral way. There is to be no affiliation whatsoever with one who blatantly sins with a high hand against a thrice holy God.
gotcha. How does a Christ follower go about deciding which things to buy? Should one research a potential product, and decline to be a consumer of that product if it is found that someone who works at such a company claims Christ yet indulges in sin? I just can’t imagine doing that and having time for anything else.
You are going down rabbit trails now….we are not talking about making purchases. We are discussing a band that has members that claim to be Christian, yet practice sin. I have already shown you from God’s word why that is problematic.
Now, if you want to discuss this further, I ask that you back your views with the word of God.
Fair enough, i’ll do my best to refrain from rabbit trails. Just trying to understand the Word. Is it against the Word to listen to Pentatonix?
sorry, you answered this below, nevermind
Let me add this, IF Kevin Olusola is a Christian, then he is violating God’s word by keeping company with Mitch Grassi, by being in a band with him, and by NOT calling him to repentance.
I have searched and found nothing stating Olusola has done that, so he too must be separated from. He yokes himself with an unrepentant sinner who violates God’s word in the grossest of ways.
Here is Olusola’s ‘testimony’, ‘Could you tell me a bit about where your strong belief in God comes from?
I’ve always been technically a Christian, my Dad and my Mom, they’re both Christians. They raised me in it so I’ve always known of God but it didn’t become real to me until college when I really started digging in on my own and realizing that everything I do, if I’m not focusing on the word of Jesus Christ, it doesn’t [amount to anything]. Christ, heaven, those are the things that are everlasting. I’m so thankful because I think being in Pentatonix is a tool, the influence that we’ve gotten from that is something I can use in a positive light and I’m so thankful for that. That’s why when you see my tweets, when you see my Facebook messages, I always try to tweet things that are uplifting and not be afraid to show people that we can be Christians in the industry. There’s a book by a guy named DeVon Franklin, I think he’s one of the Vice Presidents of Columbia Pictures, he always talks about how it’s not really that it’s bad to be in this industry, if you really follow God and His principles and are consistent people will see your life and your testimony. That’s what I keep hoping for myself. I’m not perfect, I would never say that, I just believe that if I try my hardest to be consistent, show what I believe, and live it, most importantly, then that will hopefully shine through more. I guess that’s kind of the prayer for what I do.’ from https://www.beliefnet.com/entertainment/music/faith-innovation-and-cello-beat-boxing-an-interview-with-kevin-olusola-of-pentatonix.aspx?p=2
What does it mean to ‘technically be a Christian’ and where can I find that in God’s word?
IF he were ‘focusing on the word of Jesus’ then he would NOT be in a band that includes a practicing homosexual that claims to be a believer.
Examine fruit folks, professions of faith mean NOTHING IF you are walking in disobedience to God’s word. There’s no mention of sin, no mention of repentance. It’s typical American style religiosity, just say you’re a Christian and that’s all you need. How dreadful will it be for the multitudes who ‘profess Christ with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Him’. Again, the necessity of the new birth cannot be stressed enough, and that doesn’t come by human efforts or words.
It is interesting to note, if I buy Coca Cola and someone in the company is gay, I am not allowing them in my ear or being influenced by them. Maybe that will help you see the difference.
Almost William, but the question you’re alluding to is the same one I have. unworthy is saying that if you buy a Coca Cola and find that someone in the company is practicing homosexuality 𝘢𝘯𝘥 claims Christ as Lord, then you should not support Coca Cola. unworthy, is that a fair example of application?
It is still not the same. Is that employee from Coca-Cola in a position to influence you? No, more than likely, you will never hear his voice or see his face. There will never be a way he can influence you, outside of offering for sale a soft drink. A musical group uses one of the most influential forms of communication. In fact, one of the members of this group claims to be Christian, yet he is unequally yoked. Yes, that verse about marriage has application for any type of relationship. Eventually, the influence of the other members of the group will come out. I could not in good conscience support this group.
yep, i get that
No, I am NOT saying if you buy Coke products and someone working there may be homosexual and claims to be Christian, you shouldn’t buy coke products. You are grasping at straws. Let’s stay on topic shall we?
The post is about a band that has a practicing homosexual who claims to be a Christian, yet is unrepentant of his abomination. If God says we shouldn’t even share a meal with such a person, why is it you cannot fathom not listening to their music or buying it?
Again, unless you are born again by God the Spirit, you will not comprehend what God says, you will not understand what the bible means when it says ‘holy, holy, holy is the Lord’, from Isaiah 6. America has the greatest religious freedom in the world, yet, it is a biblically illiterate nation with multitudes claiming to be Christian yet not having a clue what that even means. You can be in blatant unrepentant sin and claim to believe in Christ. Yet, the Lord says, ‘if you love me, keep my commandments’. He also says to those who claim to be religious, ‘depart from me, you ‘worker of iniquity’.
If sin is habitually practiced, you are not saved. 1 John 3 clearly states this. Why don’t most who defend Pentatonix get that?
Here is another warning from Galatians 5:19-21, “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
May God give sinners ears to hear, and a mind to understand His truth.
What is the goal of 1 Cor 5:11? Is it the protection of the view of the church from the outside? Or is it such that the individual in sin will repent? Or both?
The goal is not to protect the image of Christ’s true church, the goal is to keep His true church pure. If the sinner repents, true genuine forsaking of sin and flees from it, then they can be reconciled.
Here is an excellent source for bible studies, including the interlinear – https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/5-11.htm
Another huge problem is most professing Christians do NOT take God’s word serious, they do not tremble at His word, from Isaiah 66:2, ‘For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.’
Don’t think God takes notice of you IF you are flippant towards his holy and precious truth.
Maybe so. What about the problem of understanding the context of the Word (literal, figurative, metaphor, etc.)
The context is understood by prayer, by study, by cross referencing, by going into the original, but most of all…by God opening the understanding of those who’ve been born from above.
Anyone ready for Avengers: Endgame.
Jesus will save America!
Trump 2020!
Well said bill.
Ok so I understand your reasoning for condemning Pentatonix (and please don’t go off on some tangent about how it’s not ‘reasoning’ just God’s word) but for Avengers: Endgame you replied “well said.” Tony Stark, one of the main characters, is a known fornicator (as are more of the main characters), yet you do not condemn avengers?
You’re an asshole. And I am a Christian. Oh wait… I forgot. You’re the decider of that, correct? How about you go live your life the way you feel you need to and not pay any kind to how others choose to worship. You are the reason people hate Christians. You are the epitome of the stereotypical “hateful, judgemental Christian”
Do not let any unwholesome word go forth out of your mouth, but only good, for edification of the need, so that it may give grace to those hearing. Eph. 4;29
You are a sinner who lacks discernment, your comment is a testimony to that.
John 3:3 states unless you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God. Do you comprehend this verse?
Renee I completely agree. I’ve also argued a lot on this website and have found it incredibly frustrating. Unworthy1 or whatever she goes by now is a bigot and if God is as she says He is, then I will gladly be a ‘sinner’ with you. I really admire you for taking a stand.
If you are going to call others names use God’s word to show where it is warranted to do so – otherwise YOU are guilty of wrongly accusing, evil speaking and defending sodomites. Christianity is an inch deep and a mile wide – everybody claims to be one, but have no discernment and no understanding of who the God of the bible is. You side with evil you defend sodomites who claim to be Christian – that is an insult to a thrice holy God.
Do you comprenend John 3:3 and Eph. 2:8-9?
Meditate on this from Titus 3:2 o speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Pay close attention to ‘speak evil of no man’. Now if you have biblical support for calling me a bigot, then present such from God’s word. If not, repent of your vile tongue and stop wrongly accusing those who point out sodomites cannot be Christian – repentance MUST be a part of the walk of the true born again believer of God.
You alos are a hypocrite, for you ‘pass judgment’ on the owner of this blog, then accuse them of doing the very same thing. As you defend an unrepentant homosexual, which is what 2 members of this group are, hit your knees and ask God to forgive you of your siding with what He calls an abomination – Lev. 18:22.
Many claim to be ‘Christian’, as you do, yet your comment outs you for what you are – dead in trespasses and sin. For IF you were a Christian, you would despise sin and those who cleave to it, yet claim Christ.
From my previous comment, God’s word is perfectly clear- Mitch Grassi, who is a member of the group, states he is a homosexual and a Christian – https://twitter.com/mitchgrassi/status/230818137841471488- from his twitter feed, he states this – ‘I am a Christian man who also happens to be a homosexual. Neither of those things define me.’
You and Mitch are clueless to the command to repent. It is impossible to be a homosexual and a Christian, your defense of him makes you guilty of being an accessory. Do read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Then ask God to grant you mercy, repentance, and true saving faith that only comes from Him, by His grace – see Ephesians 2:8-9
A History of the Occult in Rock & Roll – Medium – https://devil-music-the-occult-beatles.webnode.sk/
I disagree with your end claim. First, just because I wouldn’t listen to a pastor who openly doesn’t follow God’s commandments doesn’t mean we shouldn’t listen to them on a daily basis. Lots of Godly Christians listen to band and artists that are not Christen on a daily basis, and I dont think thats bad if you’re not worshipping them and/or something completely unbiblical. Virtually every pop singer only has songs about God. If you completely stop listen to Pentatonix solely for the reasons stated above, you should also stop listening to all other pop culture singers. So, I believe that listen to Pentatonix is not bad as long as you don’t worship them and give into their ideals completely.
The central issue in the article is stated in the title. Should Christians promote this band by buying, sharing etc their music?
The way I see it is a Christian song is a Christian song no matter who is singing it. We’re not here to judge. That’s not our job. Our job is to spread the word of Jesus and to teach his way. It seems to me that spreading his word in song is another way to touch peoples hearts and to give a better understanding to who Jesus Christ is. Singing in a church choir is in fact a way to serve. But you don’t have to be in a church choir for it to be considered as serving the lord. You can do what this group is doing like so many other Christian groups are doing. When the lost go to church it may take a Sunday or a month of Sunday’s or even more for the lost to receive Jesus Christ and to truly understand. There’s only one Sunday a week you can go to hear his word but you can put in a CD in or watch YouTube and listen to all these wounderful Christian songs or gospel to hear and really feel the word of Jesus Christ. Some people receive him because of just one beautifully composed song and these kids have beautiful talent that are touching so many peoples lives. God has a plan for all of us. And No matter ANYONES sins god is a forgiving God. We don’t know his plans for others. If you feel like they are sinning what better songs to be singing than Christian songs that could potentially and more than likely one day no matter how long it takes help them receive Jesus Christ as their savior and then what a wonderful testimony and ability they will have to share and help other lost soles receive Jesus Christ as their savior! Look at the wonderful job they are in fact doing already doing! And no one but god knows the relationship these kids have with with Jesus and that’s between them and god. I hope you all reading this truly understand my thoughts and opinions of this post I found. Thank you.
Pretty gay article dude
I have just shared “Mary did you know” on my Facebook page sung by Pentatonix. I thought about taking it down but decided not to. Why? Because the song glorifies Jesus. For all those of you who say “it is sung by people who aren’t Christians” and “who are gay”, I would suggest you go and revisit Scriptures yourselves. Ie The Gospels. Jesus not only mixed with prostitutes, tax collectors (the lowest of the low in those days), saved a woman caught in adultery, He gained the reputation of “a friend of sinners.” Now, I’m sure, people would tell Jesus, “Jesus, do you know who those people are you are associating with? They are “GAY.” ”
We all know homosexuality is wrong but if Christians do not STOP making it out to be worse than any other sin we have committed, they are going to have to answer pretty serious questions themselves, when they get to the judgement seat themselves. Show discernment, speak the truth, but also be as approachable and as loving as Jesus was, who knew exactly what people were and mixed with them anyway. Come to that, who are some of you? People make such an issue of homosexuality, (which again I admit is wrong), but they also seem to think it is worse than anything they do every day. No sin is greater than any other.
If we don’t crack this, and treat all people as human beings and stop people from sharing videos because some of those singing are gay… we are never going to show anyone Jesus, as we are going to turn everyone away from Him with our “holier than thou” attitude and criticism. (Again, as I know what you will all say, I believe homosexuality is wrong. But I don’t believe we should stop sharing songs that are sung by gay people, just as Jesus did not stop spending time with people who we would condemn outright… even sex workers, when it damaged His reputation1!1 Stop being “holier” than Jesus!!
I am a Christian, and I can tell you with confidence that Jesus loves EVERYONE, with no exceptions!!
This article makes me sad that it is stating you shouldn’t listen to this music because 2 of the members are openly gay. It’s music to my ears that they are singing music that praises God, because let’s face the truth, we are ALL sinners and still God showers us with endless love!
Sounds sadly like the 21st Century pharisees.
k boomer, cry about it