Delight in Truth commentator Julian Chan writes:
“My 11-year-old daughter was observed hugging me a lot, which Barnevernet interpreted as flirting. At least they acknowledged that I didn’t initiate it, but still they accused me of not putting a stop to it, telling me that it’s only OK to sit down and put an arm around her occasionally.
My daughter was devastated when I told her what they had said. Perhaps it’s different in different cultures, but in my view a father and daughter can hug and show affection without either of them seeing it as incestuous. In our case it’s just a “I’m glad that you’re here with me” sign.
According to my experiences with bv, it’s better to just leave Norway if you ever get involved with them. If there’s no obvious problem they’ll find one to escalate. If they don’t find one they’ll invent one and look for evidence that could support it. In my year(s) of contact, they were implementing “guidance” and “help measures” but still even now have not properly defined what they have been concerned about.
But now that my daughter has fled the country due to bv – and I will be following – I guess we’ll never know for sure.”
Delight in Truth 
Disgusting. This is the Democratic People’s Republic of North Kor, uh, Norway at it again. The only real difference I can see between North Korea and Norway is the latter’s people aren’t starving. Otherwise, Norway is just as oppressive.
Now, all Norway needs is more surveillance equipment. This way maybe they can have the police ticket people on their first hugging offense to help pay for this wicked and costly system. The second offence would be a sizable fine, The third offence would be the loss of your child.
I’m from Norway, and I must say: if she wasn’t hugging you, or you her, that would be something they would criticize you for also.You simply cannot do anything right. Its not a cultural problem, its not about religion, its not about nothing else than wrong people having a job they shouldn’t have.
We don´t know if it´s true (hugs are normal in Norway). May we check the credibility of this story (names, files from BV, letter of concern- BV is not interested in you until they receive a letter from a person who do know you and is worried about your child situation). Otherwise, it´s pure propaganda for me.
I would agree with you Veronika, if this was an isolated claim. One or two of these claim can be written off as fringe. But more and more people are coming out with these accusations which really makes us think that there is an underlying culture of intrusion and surveillance in Norway.
Veronika: “BV is not interested in you until they receive a letter from a person who do know you and is worried about your child situation”
I remember one case from Norway and one from Sweden where anonymous worry notices came by mail to some other authority than the CPS, authorities who then alerted the CPS, and where the notes of worry were later shown to have been sent from the IP of the CPS themselves.
They want to destroy all that is natural and around the notion of family -at the same time they are encouraging homosexuality and all kind of perversions. Norway is a sick people, run by perverted lesbian leaders. It’s a social model that has no future.
Dumitru, I would say that the people of Norway are good people in general. The system and culture they have adopted is reminiscent of communist tactics we have seen in Eastern Europe
Of course, Veronika. We never know if it’s true if it comes from victims. You are always 100% when it comes from Barnevernet. That’s because you lived a couple of years in Norway and now you know everything about the system. Let me tell you something. Under the communism not all the stories were completely accurate. Nevertheless, the main things about the system were right. “In Norway, victims who did not know each other said quite similar things about the government abuses. The very way evidence from a lot of different sources converged was a sign that it might be true. And it was! All the evidence about Barnevernet coming in from all sorts of families in Norway should have given the Norwegian authorities an important message, too. They should not have discarded it as unreliable. They should have gone into every single case long ago. Then they would have found enough sure evidence to point out what their obligation was: to stop Barnevernet. Immediately”.
Please read the full article here:
http://romaniantimes.com/index.php/phoenixaz/1128-with-barnevernet-norway-is-going-south.html
Well, somewhat accidentally I can tell you that Julian is a respectable person, with a respectable job, and he has many particulars to relate which agree completely with evidence from other people, about the same Barnevern facilities, the same types of personnel, the same tactics. It’s up to him what he wants to reveal in which contexts, but he is certainly at least as trustworthy as someone who calls herself Veronika.
Again Mr. Prunean has taken a comment and made it a headliner. He hasen’t asked the man calling himself Julian Chan if this is ok, but… Mr. Prunean is the repsonsible .. not me.
Some googling leads me to a man about 45 years old living in Oslo. I don’t find any other
https://no.vokipages.com/people/julian-chan-7408194
This man is educated in Australia – has lived in Canada and are an employer with an income three times a CPS worker. As long as we have no context for his comment this could be anything..
Public domain information, Knut. If it was a private message or email, permission would be customary. And like I responded to Veronika, this is no isolated claim…
Knut,
Maybe he was a tourist whom the BV tends to leave alone as the country’s economy does quite well by them. I just read that in your county of 5 million “Every year more than three million guest nights are spent in the hotels of Oslo.” Maybe this webpage is wrong:
http://www.visitoslo.com/en/trade-media-cruise/travel-trade/statistics-and-analysis/
That’s only one city. I wonder what the number is when one includes the entire country? I think most people travel to Norway for its breathtaking beauty among other things. Speaking of natural things, there is a natural and spiritual law that says you reap what you sow. It is a scripture in the Bible actually, that many people know, but that fewer and fewer seem to expect as the world turns. This law will show all of us who has the truth on every topic, eventually.
I have a question, Knut. Why did you not comment on the story that Delight had up on his blog yesterday? I was waiting. I guess my blog isn’t big enough to bother with. Well, it’s too late to do it today as I’m going to take a much needed nap. Maybe you had yesterday off and missed it. There is one thing that I’m not missing. Although I have a small blog, I have been contacted in various ways by more than one person. They are either good liars who all say the same thing and have organized a group with the plan of taking out Norwegian’s CPS or what they are telling me is the truth. Do you have a third option?
Your answers to the Hungarian pastor the other day were woefully insufficient. Yet, you continue on with relentless resolve. You are a good disciple. You are not a very good spokesman, however. During the short discussion you had with Adam, you sounded like more than one person. Your English deteriorated as you continued. I notice stuff like that as I attempt to teach children on occasion. Are you getting tired, Knut? Are you getting tired of protecting a system that calls evil good and good evil? I think you are only one person but you act like two. One day you toss us a bone making us think that you sympathize with people like the Bonariu family. Or you put up a nice Christian video that contains wonderful Bible verses. The next day you are defending a system that allows “Mothers’ Homes” to even exist.
I’m tired, Knut. So, I’m going to take a nap. I’m tired of hearing accounts of how lives are being systematically changed in a very wrong direction (I’m being kind here by not using stronger terms) in your country. Americans are hearing these accounts and I think you should tell whoever is in charge of tourism that the numbers won’t continue to be as good as they have been in the past. There’s the account of the American mother your country took a child from. That story is getting around. I’ve heard her story and I believe her instead of you. Why is that? It is because it fits with all the other accounts I have heard about the Barnevernet and how it treats your own people. Your CPS only got bolder when our embassy did nothing to help the young lady. Few people in our country heard that story then, Knut. But the accounts continue to increase and more people worldwide are hearing about things like “Mothers’ Homes” and children under 10 in particular being removed from adequate parents for silly reasons. So many of the kids that are taken wind up in jails and prisons. How does that happen in a system designed to fix problems?
Which Knut are you today? I don’t know because I didn’t even read what you wrote. I am more concerned about the 4 to 5 children that are removed from their parents each day than reading what a little green square has to “say.” I have “said” enough. I am tired, Knut, and I’m going to take a nap.
Yes that’s me, Knut, although that extract from my LinkedIn profile is several years old. Somewhat ironically, that vokipages site has extracted information without permission since one needs to be a LinkedIn member to view it, and the access is logged.
DiT – agreed. There is no difference, apart from formatting, between my posting a comment and you creating a topic based on that. As soon as I left the comment on your site the information became available. (That’s my IT background showing.)
So, now that I at least appear to be a real person with real experiences regarding barnevernet, the question to ask is how reliable is my commentary? Is it more or less reliable than a barnevern worker writing down their opinions and presenting it to a court as fact?
As far as the context, we were under observation for an issue which had nothing to do with the incident detailed yesterday. This came right out of the blue, and I took it as yet another attempt at creating problems where there were none; perhaps out of a need to feel a sense of accomplishment or to prove value in their work?
What would it take to convince the skeptics? I note that Veronika would accept BV files, but that in itself shows a part of the problem in that BV are not reliable in producing complete, objective documentation. I had many words with them over their habit of only writing down observations and conversations which added to their already-established theories and, absurdly, these arguments didn’t even make it into their reports.
I don’t know if I have an income three times that of a BV worker but, if so, perhaps it’s because I’m expected to be personally accountable in my professional life.
I’m glad you took your time to respond. I understand you of some unknown reason came to an observation situation your daughter hugged you several times. I guess this observation was done in your home with the whole family present and one or two CPS workers – for the child(ren) unknown guests – at the age of 11 parents often try to tell them how to behave and some tell stories of what we may do – this kind of information creates tension and it’s both normal to hug a father just for being a father and to hug because of tension made in the situation,
To make the hugging a detail of interest in an observation it must have something to do with the content of the concern. In an obervation we usually write down what we see – not interpret – that is something else. If that is done we write it in the journal as personal consideration done.
This observation and interpretation may represent a guidance done if it was meant that the observer(s) should give you some advices. If so – my guess is that it was just a detail among others, but for you as a receiver of the message it became more than a detail – the CPS saw things and put it wrong together and the possible sexual thinking was disturbing.
You see from my comment I’m still only guessing, The context is foggy and I agree – we don’t need to know all the details. I wouldn’t have done that if I were you.
As I am reading more about the Barnevernet and its workers I start realizing that they have I different ways to see the reality. They see everything trough their thick glasses and very distorted. Their brain is so dirty that everyone is seen as dirty as they are. Like the irrational cop that things that everyone else is a criminal. Now that the so called “activists “are coming in picture trying to bring the real facts to light they have one new front to attack and discredit, to defend themselves. Anybody else that tell their horrific story with Barnevernet doesn’t tell the truth because their stories are not the stories in their books. Fabrication like in communist time. The normal population is never right. Only the cohorts from Barnevernet are right. I guess that people losing their children in the beginning are surprised and never knowing about the case and the reasons against them. When Barnevernet have a family under microscope if the workers following the case cannot find a reason to confiscate the children they are considered unfit to do the job, so they have to fabricate the story. This is why they use coercion, intimidation etc, etc. A bunch of leach with a lots of money. CPS or Barnevernet of Norway is a Children Poaching System with Money Power.
If you wanna see a movie which has a lot to do with families, children and love – try this one – The great Gilly Hopkins – from 2015: Attitude’s got a new name in twelve-year-old Gilly Hopkins (Sophie Nélisse) – a brilliant, brash, and totally unmanageable
foster kid who’s determined to alienate herself from every foster family she’s placed with – until there’s no choice but to let her reunite with her real mom (Julia Stiles) in San Francisco. When she’s placed with Maime Trotter (Kathy Bates), the strangest foster mom yet, Gilly is convinced she’ll make short work of her – until to Gilly’s surprise and the surprise of everyone around her, except for Trotter, she starts to love her. But then her new home is invaded by the arrival of her biological grandmother (Glenn Close). Will Gilly have to leave the only family she’s ever loved? http://streamcloud.eu/2iv1ha7rygl8.html
Knut,
I would not like to talk about fictive stories in movie manuscripts, I would like to talk about reality. Real cases, like B. family, or like Julian Chan’s story.
Also, Aristotel Condrea’s comment on playinh a cop who thinks everyone else was a criminal is pretty interesting — and this could relate to the topic in the letter you have sent about the trainings.
However I can not only think about lack of trainings as a root cause for issues, but also about unbalanced trainings. It is pretty laudable if BV staff is trained to make quick and bold decisions whenever necessary. However if they are not trained enough to see when it was really necessary, and they are not told the side-effects of an unnecessary forced foster care, just the side-effects of a missed necessary case, that is likely to lead to foster care panic.
My best intentioned explanation for the series of cases of BV that called international attention is that there is a wide foster care panic going on at least at a number of communities — when child welfare staff panics and tooks such children into forced foster care who should stay with their families.
Don’t neglect the side-effects of forced foster care for the children. It is not like prescribing some vitamin C or even Aspirin. It is at least as toxic as chemotherapy — in case of a real cancer it will help — but you will think twice (if not more times) before chemotherapy if there is a reasonable doubt that there was no cancer at all.
This is not the best interest of the patient to go to chemotherapy on the first and light indication of cancer. This is also not the best interest of the child to be taken into foster care on unverified concerns. The therapy could easily do far more harm than it helps.
So I agree with you, trainings for children welfare are crucial. However it is not only about untrained people, but also about potential unbalanced trainings…
Reblogged this on Dumnezeu e în control.
Dont blame the Norwegian people, only blame the people who works in the Barneværn.
Of course the Norwegian people is not to be blamed as a whole, this would be an insult to intelligence as well as a mistake. But at the root of all that happens because of some people who work with Bv there must be somebody, an ideology, a mentality, a policy. What about politicians who made such laws that allow biased people to act as cruelly, on a simple suspicion or denunciation…? Who gave Bv such power, who planted in their minds absurd theories concerning children wellbeing and safety? What about the media who prefers light, superficial topics, instead of conducting proper investigations…? What about so many people who believe blindly in all that is said by leaders like Ms Horne, and thinks all critics are “haters” and “lunatics”…? What about the fact that, having abandoned God, new idols arise, some ridiculous, some dangerous, some fatal…?
Central questions you have here, agnesD.
to Veronika.i can actually belive that.i also got told to learn my daughter not to hug so often.She was to trusting.another coment was we had to much fun togheter while doing things like dishes etc.I even been to court were cpa tryed remove the child.The court stopped the case since it was a farse.there is no denying there is kids that need cpa and there is a few good people in there to.But you have alot of power hungry people who wants you to jump when they say jump and poor you if you dont.After what i have been trou i belive every thing said since i also have experienced similar. Norwegian cpa needs a complete rework and severe supervision.And yes i am aware some kids need help and rescuing but those who does is harder to place so often they are left in the shit that happends to them.
Knut, if Barnevernet’s employees would have higher salaries they would confiscate more children for no merit. Sonja is right. We don’t have to blame Norwegian people for what’s happening. We know that they could change the situation if they would understand what BV agents are doing but they are not aware or they don’t believe Barnevernet became a business for kidnapping children from good and loving families for no reason (they fabricate “reasons”).
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They are from a different planet. Sick people. They need a lots of help. I guess strange things are happening in their families. There are report of Barnevernet workers having sex with their own children and the mom being terrorized that dad will kill himself if she tell about. Happened.
There is one thing that worries me a lot. When I heard that removing children from their families is the last resort..I (and many others) would assume that there is no other option and everything was made to help the family. Now I have a feeling, that they mean that getting the children back after they were removed, is a very unlikely. I was asking many times about statistics, or a guess on how many children are yearly returned to their parents in Norway. It seems that nobody knows. Though BV legal advisor told in her interview with Czech press, that she also does not know, but probably less than 100 families appeal every year. From these families, how many do succeed and if they dont appeal, then how big is their chance that they get their children back? I bet its extremely low. The whole system is set wrong., it should be BV that would have to prove that the original reasons are still valid every 3-4 months and not the parents that would have to appeal the decision.
It sure doesn’t seem very democratic in nature does it, Pavla?
Barnevernet seem tos be interested in decreasing Norwegian GDP by forcing well qualified foreigners to flee from the country… by so many crazy cases.
I wonder when the economists will start be concerned about the impact…
It does not seem very likely, does it? That a child`s hugging of a father is interpreted as flirting by people who are supposed to be regarded as professionals on children and their relationships towards parents?
Well, I would not believe much of what is written on pages like this, until i felt the breath of barnevernet in my own family. I was one of the people who generally held barnevernet to be a helper of kids and families, and that the cruel stories we heard were exceptions, or rather individual experiences where only part of the story was told.
Just as Julian Chan, we eventually found relief from several years of torture inflicted upon us by the barnevernet. We had been shuffled here and there. I was thrown out of my own home. I was pushed to move back. Suspicion. Allegations. Below the belt accusations. Twice in a couple of years we had cases running to take away all our children permanently.
A friend of mine took us to the airport. We discretely checked in while the kids and my wife were waiting in the car. Then we rushed the kids to “foreign departure”, anxiously waiting to get onboard the plane. The County Board meeting was due in few weeks, and we knew that we statistically would be without children after that.
It was strange that deliverance from the ongoing stress and fear which had become a part of our life, should be given to us by a foreign airline carrying the whole family to a country people usually dont flee to. It was strange to land on an airport in a country which we usually dont regard as a true democracy, to walk down the stairs and just feel the urge to kneel and kiss the concrete. For the first time in years the family was free again. My wife and I were once again the ones to make decisions in the family.
Well, that was the feeling. We would not dare to take the family back to Norway. Families from Norway seeking refuge abroad in socalled modern times is not science fiction. It is reality,
Glad you made it out with the children. Others were not so lucky. There are stories of families placed on no-fly lists and stopped at the airport.
Yes, Delight in Truth, even though neither me nor my wife have ever been prosecuted or convicted of any crime, and even though what we were doing was perfectly legal, we did not tell more than just a few that we were going. I had also heard the stories, and I knew that they would not let us go had they known what we were up to. We left the country on a sunday morning so that the school should not alarm the CPS until we were safe. We had a connecting flight from Stockholm, Sweden, and stayed the whole day at Arlanda airport. However I do not trust authorities in Denmark and Sweden on norwegian CPS-matters, and I was not relaxed until we took off to our final destination, feeling the touch of God after such a long time in darkness.
Reblogged this on Pentru minte şi suflet.