Prof. Marianne H. Skanland speaking at the anti-Barnevernet protest in Oslo. She argues effectively against the “attachment theory” and “behaviorism” which seem to be foundational in Barnevernet philosophy. Video credit Tancred Productions. Source: YouTube channel here
Mar
3
2016
Delight in Truth 
Marianne shows how ungodly this entire effort is.
Marianne points out, at the root, the real problem.
My Bible clearly indicates that we are born with a sinful nature.
When an entire society doesn’t get this simple thing right, things described on this blog will always take place.
Unfortunately, the problem is not confined to Norway. It is becoming a worldwide problem.
If more brave folks like these don’t stand up and do away with such practices, the future looks mighty bleak.
May God bless all those who are speaking out against these injustices!
note: The Christian, of course, always has hope in spite of the evil in the world.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.
1 Cor. 15
Med Barnevernet er Norge på nedtur
Reblogged this on Ropenti.
CPS Whistleblower, Carlos Morales, breaks down the truth about Child Protective Services, why it needs to be completely reformed, and how we can move beyond government and into a freer society. You can find the book “Legally Kidnapped: The Case Against Child Protective Services” here: http://www.legallykidnapped.net
I invite you to watch this video.
Norwegian politicians should listen to this video to see why we condemn Barnevernet’ actions and why we suggest that Barnevernet must stop immediately and Norway should create a completely new “Child Protective Service”.
i think we should be glad we live in Norway and have a CPS with motivated and skilled normal people working with their heart and mind to the best for children, families and future than what’s goin’ on in your neighbourhood if there is to be a bit truth in. Good luck to you be the shift of your mindset – yeah,you have a book to sell so a little dose of goodhearted democatic politics is useful for conspiricy – that might sell – if your not a democrat.
You live in a beautiful country, Knut.
However, after what I’ve read and heard, it would be the last “educated” nation I would choose for my home.
Knut. Your country’s CPS is a failure of monumental proportions. If you think that they are skilled and normal, then you have no clue as to what you are talking about. NOBODY that is normal will EVER kidnap children from STRONG and LOVING homes, like your pathetic BV does. Your pathetic delusions are so tattered to the point where you can no longer keep a hold of them. The ONLY thing your pathetic BV does is look out for their OWN interests. This is proven empirically on a daily basis.
you are an incurable ! you are intentionally blind because of your nazi norway dirty money!
Wow Realy CPS is motivated to help families Really.Barnevernet works with a Heart and Mind? Hello that where you are wrong you say all kinds of things and i read your confesion as of who made you what you are today.You are the very product of the agency that you are defending.They engineered you to be heartless unforgiving and the only place where you try to use your brain is online where you try to sway people into thinking that BV has the “Childs Best Interest” (you have the nerve to call yourself a christian and yet you will not try to interact with your own real family that was forced like you forced so many families to give up their children for pretend reasons).Stop talking about God Here because he is not your redeemer.You are not making decisions based on his teachings. If there was one poster child for BV that would be Breivick yes that was created by BV.
Recap BV does not have a heart and does not have a brain and the last thing they are after is “the Childs Best Interest”
Just a question to you Knut … are you on drugs ? When you did a brain scan for tumors lately ? Or the fact you where adopted makes you think that is ok to rip the children from families … Let me finish with a quote from Albert Einstein : Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe!
No – not in the usual way, but I have a faith that gives me some experiences and emotions that gives me addiction – my relationship with our Father.
i am adopted myself. I remember not thinking one thought of it until my parents told my when I was around 8 or 9. The reason for tellihg my was – I think – that they should be the people I heard it from first. They said they will tell me more if I wondered in the years to come. I didn’t wonder much – I was a happy kid who grew up in a christian home. I have no picture from my first year in surroundings I don’t know – my first childhood picture is from an age where I’m around 20 months.
At the age of 18 I was told where I was born. They told my I had 5 siblings. That might have given some curiosity, but it didn’t. I had an understanding that my biological parents had done something like the parents of Moses – sent me to someone else – not because they didn’t love me, but because of an understanding that it was necessary for my future life. The parents told me that the names of my biological parents was in the safe and that I could ask for them. I didn’t have that need. I had a family and had no need to out of curiosity mix up the attatchment I have had all my living life.
Some years ago I got an illness – a cronich one and I had a long sick leave. I have kids and I wondered if this illness might be heritable. I began to think of my siblings – did they have that illness or is it just me? In the google days I found a man in the neighbourhood of where I was baptised who have full knowledge of my siblings although they lived different places in Norway. I got their names, addresses and with the internet I can see them, but to this day I have not written a word to them although I heard the man helping me say that they knew eachother and missed their little brother. My attachment to my adopted family with all their relatives have been family good enough for me.
As an CPS I have been to seminars and got education that say that a child who have been cared ?? from birth and so end up 20 months old in the care of adoptive parents should have attachment problems. I think I’m a living proof of that’s not the truth for all and I have spoken with other adoptive children who have the same story.
As an CPS I had once the responsibilty for following up a fosterhome where a boy under 10 had stayed for years without knowing that he was in a fosterhome. He thought – as I might have thought the rest of my life if noone had told me – that my mother and father is those who I live with know. He thought this so hard that neither I or the biological mother who visited him managed to tell him that he was in a fosterhome. As the cowards we were we gave that task to the fosterparents who used years to find a situation where it was a possibility and an opening to give him the information he should have. He was so attached to the fosterparents that we backed off. I remember we were two CPS’s on one visit and the new one got the question from the kid when opening the door – “Who are you?” – also this new one didn’t manage to tell “We are the CPS who have no come to tell you that the people you live with are not your mother and father, but what we call fosterparents.” He was so happy, so pleased, so in love wtih his life and forsterparents that we backed off.
“I didn’t wonder much”
Still a problem.
Some of us wonder about life and everything around us. Some set very high demands on the evidence. In order to prevent subjective opinions to get control in the lives of others.
This is an interesting story, Knut.
I don’t see how it answers any of the many allegations mentioned in this blog.
So your personal life experience make you believe that it is better in foster home than in a biological home and it’s OK that Barnevernet confiscate children for trivial reasons and put them for adoption. I have some friends here in AZ who lived 6 years in Norway. One of their daughters was born in Norway. What they told me is that Norwegian ideological system is made that way so that they desconsider the parents in the name of “the best interest of the child”. I’m sorry to tell you but your foster parents raised you in this secular totally wrong thinking system to be insensitive at the pain of parents. That’s not biblical at all and your “best interest of the child” for which BV step over parents “dead bodies” is a huge hypocrisy. I asked you and I repeat: How in the world the BV workers know what’s going to happen in the future with the child to remove the child from loving parents for trivial reasons without any feelings ? You seem to have bo feelings at all for the parents. You care less about those children removed from parents for stupid reasons and then ended up being sexually abused in foster homes. What do you have to say for those parents? Another thing: Norwegian CPS removed children when the parents did not have the ability to make enough money to raise the children. So, the Norwegian gov instead of helping / supporting the biological family financially they choose to remove the children from the loving family and pay thousands of euro to foster parents to raise those children. And all this seems right to you as a “Christian”! That’s because you have no sense of family. Barnevernet chose people like to that think like robots, no feeling for the parents at all, brainwashed to believe that it is better for children in foster homes. That’s why it seems right to you that the state should not pay the biological parents to raise the children, if they have financial struggles but rather to remove them from parents to pay foster parents to raise children. Are all foster parents loving their foster children or there are some of them that do it for money? How can you measure their love? If you can’t answer me these questions, how in the world the Barnevernet inhumane social workers can determine what’s the best interest of the child? The fact that you were not curious at all to find the truth about your parents does not mean that that is the right thing to do. You were ok in foster home and that’s all that mattered to you! What if your biological parents also loved you very much, you don’t care about a potential injustice that was done to them as long as you were ok at foster parents. It does not matter to you and it should not matter to us if an injustice took place after you were born, right? Nevertheless, there were many children that after they grew up they wanted to know the truth about their bilogical family and they were not insensitive at the sufference of their biological parents. You have to admit that your philosophy of life is Barnevernet’s philosophy. They distroy families without knowing what’s going to happen in foster homes. Even if the child would be ok at foster parents, a great injustice was done. If you think just about “the best interest of the child” without considering the love and affection the parents have for the child, what about removing all children from poor families and give them to the rich? I aasure you the children “would do better” in rich families!
This is the best answer / comment I’ve seen to date! Good job, Octavian!
Knut. You can spin things all you like, but it will NEVER change the fact that your precious BV is pathetic criminal syndicate that deserves obliteration. EVERY child in your pathetic BV’s ‘care’ has been indoctrinated, turned into criminals or drug addicts. This has been reported by EVERY major Norwegian newspaper and you want to prove your myopia and disregard facts and truth? Give it up and accept reality. Your BV is a disease that MUST be purged.
wthat a pathetic brainwashed you are!
Finally Knut comes out of the closet
The CPS ACTIVIST that Defends the BEAST.
Let Me break it to you.Your parents were forced to give you up despite their hesitation.The fact that they told you one day will clarify for you and you are not looking for that answer is puzzling.
Barnebeast doings are not new to you one might think that you would be their enemy and yet they made your their staunch defender. Go on make other children life miserable after all someone made yours too and why not continue.Yet your family misses you but first you have to condemn the ones that need condemnation and those are Barnevernet not your family(they were the victims of your favorite agency)
That`s good Knut, that you have a relationship with God as your heavenly Father! That is the most important for me too. You know that I write songs. And in one of my songs I sing; “There`s nothing more wonderful than to know I`m loved by God”.
But it is important to not only know it but also show it! Remember He loved us while we were still sinners. We are supposed to love as He has loved us. We can love by our actions. We cannot help everywhere and everyone. But we should try to help wherever God has placed us. We should go in Jesus`s footprints. He never gave up anybody who had failed and knew they needed help. Even if they failed time after time he didn`t give them up. Only the self righteous pharisees who thought themselves to be perfect were hopeless.
I hope you realize that you can’t urge out faith to be the driving wheel for all actions in a secular multicultural society anno 2016. The family is no longer everytime father and mother. In Scandinavia we have a new sex – he, she and hen – the transsexuals. Our toilets are shall now be altered to unisex – no longer one for men and women. I don’t know how many transseyals there is in Norway, but the number is far lower than the homosexual 1% who changed the family. We live in times where it’s getting darker outside, but for us that trust in the Lord our intimacy with our Father will increase. We see things different, but we are “one” in our faith.
We can influence but not change others actions. However, are actions should always and everywhere be in accordance with the will of God! It doesn`t matter if it is in our private lives or at work. God never changes! His Word doesn`t change! Sin is sin! You can choose; Please the world or heed His Word- win trophies in this world and lose rewards in heaven or lose all prestige in this world and win treasures that you can never lose in heaven. The choice is yours.
I don’t follow you on the “sin” and work thinking. A priest is no garantee for holiness. We have christian private schools, but do a christian teacher who works in a commin school sin because of some education that is agaist the word of God? Where is the “sin” part in the CPS? We live in days where families break up easily. There is no garantee for families anymore. They are together today, but tomorrow .. who knows? This is the work of the spirit of time – not the CPS.
It is getting darker outside because of organizations like the one for whom you work. Again you play the “Christian card.” You are in serious trouble and it appears you don’t even see it (or don’t want to).
Du gjør en kjempeflott jobb!
Dear Mr. Knut,
my apologies for the indiscretion — I am not sure if I dared to ask the questions below if you did not argue for Barnevernet in the way you do…
1. I wonder if your parents asked you, did they consider your point of view? Or did they just told them their final decision?
This is important in partricular as Barnevernet seems to make the emergency decision over the children — many times against their cries. The Bodnariu children for example were reportedly crying for their parents, and tried to write them letters — that Barnevernet seemed to block for a few months… — you also had a decision made over your head.
2. I wonder why you decided not to give the joy to your biological siblings that they could see you if you are really happy with your childhood and your foster parents.
I hope you know your biological siblings had nothing — probably even less than yourself — to influence the decision of sending you into a foster family.
You don’t need to asnwer to me. It is perfectly enough if you answer for yourself only.
I was adopted – and arrived at my adoptive parents at the age of 19 months. I have no memory of anything happening in my life before my parents began to take pictures of me. As an andoptive child I had a full family – I have never had no need for two families. Mr. Prunean has used me as activist propaganda without asking my opinion – it’s quite a difference between a comment and a headliner. Mr. Prunean has done this twice. You find all the details in your question in the article with my name.
So the parents you mention at age of 8 or 9 are not your biological parents. It was not clear so far. Thanks…
I did not tell you needed two families… but — at least from what you wrote — your biological siblings seem to need you… still?
I think Knut has stated that he is not interested in meeting any siblings he may have had, Jasper.
Please correct me if I am wrong, Knut.
That is perfectly OK as the one grown up in foster care. Completely agreed.
However I had a strange gut feeling when read about this story and in other parts of the debate read what you Chris call “playing the Christian card”. I don’t think these arguments were compatible with each other in a single debate.
Dear Knut,
my apologies for the public indiscretion. I would most likely not dare to ask the questions below if you did not argue in favour of Barnevernet the way you do (I mean in your comments in general). Feel free to answer the questions for yourself only.
1. I wonder if your biological parents had discussed what they plan before they decided or not… This question is important in particular, because you most likely have an experience yourself of such an important decision made over you without really listening to your opinion at all.
I wonder what doies this mean for you in the situations, when Barnevernet makes it decisions without really listening to the children, sometimes against their cries (as far as I understood the familiy’s webpage, it is happening in the Naustdal case for example).
2. I also wonder — at least as long as you are really that happy with your childhood in foster family as you state — why did you not give the joy for your biological siblings to see you, when you heard they miss you, (Your (former?) siblings had nothing — most likely even less than what you had — to influence your biological parents’ decision. It was just simply decided over them, they seem not been willing to lose you at all. I understand if you were angry on your biological parents who made the decision — but even in that case the decision had been completely independent from the siblings).
sorry, I have not so stable internet connection — I got an error message on first comment.
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Knut`s story is indeed interesting. Finally, it clears up some mysteries into Knut`s and barnevernet`s way of thinking.
On the 7th of January 2016 I wrote a contribution to a blog in the Norwegian Christian newspaper, Vårt Land`s blog „Verdidebatten“.
I have been writing there since 2012. Knut Nygaard has written and commented there far much than me and has also been there longer. He seldom writes about barnevernet. But when and wherever something about barnevernet is brought up, it doesn`t take long till he gives his comments.
Knut has, as far as I understand, been working for barnevernet since 1978.
I hadn`t written anything on Verdidebatten for a long time when I wrote my contribution in January. Actually, I had decided to stop writing anything there. Even though it is a socalled Christian newspaper that owns the blog, it doesn`t resembles such. The contributors are to a large percent atheists or people, mostly middle-aged men, with very strange views (in my opinion). Being a Christian who believes the Bible to be God`s infallible Word, and one who desires to live by God`s Word, I felt kind of out of space writing there.
However, when I first heard about the Bodnariu case some time in the beginning of December, I was deeply shocked and grieved about barnevernet`s unbelievable, unjust and inhumane actions in many cases like in the Bodnariu case. Arild Holta had previously written a lot about it on Verdidebatten. I regret that I didn`t believe him back then. Now I admire him for his endouvers to expose the evil done by barnevernet.
Before I continue, I must add a little bit about myself. I am a Norwegian. But since I am married to a Swiss, I live in Switzerland where we have been living since we got married almost 25 years ago. Our four children are teens and grown up. Therefore I feel safe to critisize barnevernet. I guess for many Norwegians it feels unsafe to do so if they live in Norway and have kids.
As I heard more and more about the Bodnariu case and also was made aware of other cases where great injustice was done by barnevernet, I one day wrote a poem to let my feelings out. The poem is called „Silent tears“ and is about the love, loss and deep sorrow from a mother and child`s perspective after having been separated by barnevernet and about how the bv are pressuring them to silence their feelings.
Immediately afterwards, I had some pictures in my mind which made me write an anology where I compared the scenario where children are ripped away from barnevernet, like in the Bodnariu- case, and placed in foster families as young tender plants being torn out of the soil they are meant to be in and planted somewhere else where they are not supposed to be and where they cannot thrive. Instead these plants, or children, should have stayed in their natural environment and been given nourishment, care, encouragment, respect and whatever help needed right there. Only that way they can thrive.
There are of course severe cases where there is no other way than to take children out of their families and place them in others care. But that must be only in life threatening or cases where serious harm otherwise will be done.
There were, as expected, very few responses to my blog contribution. On the whole, it seems to be a kind of spooky silence in Norway when it comes to talking about barnevernet. Norwegians seem to write about all kinds of trivial matters. But anyone who criticizes barnevernet will be treated with contempt. However, it was one person who was quick to respond. You can guess who that was….. Yes, it was Knut. And, as you can imagine, he was not very happy about what I wrote. He got increasingly annoyed when I tried to picture the dramatic scenario where barnevernet abruptly take children away from their parents like in the Bodnariu case. I assumed that the children were told by their parents never to follow strangers if they for instance offered to give them a car lift as this could be very dangerous. Then you have the scenario where the children actually are being forced by some strangers, being the barnevernet, to leave and go somewhere far away by car. Left behind are their totally devastated, helpless and frightened parents (I would surely behave hysterically in such a situation…)
I asked Knut the simple question; „What do you think goes on in a child`s mind in such a situation? How does a child, who has learned to distrust strangers and to trust its parents, think and feel in such a situation? Doesn`t this traumatize the child more than anything else? Is this really serving the child`s best?“
Knut didn`t answer the question. Instead he went on and on and on about teaching me how the barnevernet works. He could have cited a whole book about barnevernets legal system. But I remained adamant and explained that I was not interested in barnevernets legal system but just a simple answer to my simple questions. To make it easier for him, I asked if there had been made some research in the area of how a child perceives such a scenario and how it affects a child emotionally.
After a while, Knut got really annoyed and upset about my continuous questioning. He blamed me for concentrating on feelings instead of sticking to facts. In fact, he warned me that I was doing myself a huge disfavour by swirling my head around feelings.
A lady came into the conversation and reprimanded me for my obsession with „feelings“. She told me that a person who works in the barnevernet should never give any attention to feelings as this only would prohibit them from doing what they were supposed to do; or in other words, do what the „barnevern- manuel“ tells them to do.I told her that, in my opinion, it is vital for a person working in the bv to use their heads as well as their hearts.
Well, soon after that I stopped writing as it was getting me nowhere. However, I learned some important lessons; Some people working in bv obviously use neither their heads nor their hearts when it comes to evaluating what to do in the various cases they are confronted with in their daily work. Feelings are surpressed and that word „love“ is non-existent!
When Knut now shares with us how his personal experience , having been taken away from both his parents and all his siblings at a young age, never has affected him in any negative way and never has left him wondering, it leaves me some reasons for suspicion. How on earth is it possible for a child to be left totally unaffected by something of this grave dimension? I can understand that children are different and react differently. But that someone is totally uninterested in finding out who their biological parents and siblings are, is someting I cannot comprehend…. It makes me wonder if this might have something to do with feelings that at one point have been so hard to bear and hurt so much that is has been subconsciously surpressed as a mecanism to survive? Maybe even working with barnevernet and taking away children from parents can be a way to deal with these surpressed feelings?
I am in no way a psycologist. So I might be wrong. But these are my logical conclusions to my thoughts.
My heart grieves for the Bodnarius and all those other parents and children who have so unjustly been separated by barnevernet. The thought of it is just unbearable! I pray every day that this terrible system will break down and pave the way for a new and just child protective system that will love, nuture and help families to the child`s best interest.
Hildi, welcome here and thank you for your thoughts. As I am preparing to write a response to Knut (I am starting to like his persistence actually), I am very encouraged to see sensible people like yourself who believe in the inerrancy and infallibility of God’s Word who are a bright light in a dark nordic winter.
Please continue to contribute here as we have had some good success penetrating into Norway. We have had thousands of visitors from Norway in recent weeks and they have learned about the Bodnariu drama.
Hildi,
You may not be a psychologist but I think you have come to some very reasonable conclusions.
I had similar thoughts about his “story.” One would think he would be on the right side of this issue.
God’s blessings…
Hildi, I wonder if this might interest you?:
“The attitude of social professions involved in the child protection sector”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page101/page101.html
I thought of it especially in connection with the question of social workers’ feelings, and also with what Knut Nygaard says in a comment a little further down here: that their intentions are good.
Of course nearly everybody’s intentions are good. That does not free them from the responsibility of having done vicious deeds. When it comes to parents whom Barnevernet judges, we are told that the parents’ good intentions are not enough. When it comes to social workers’ power to rule other people’s lives on the most important point of all in life, then the good intentions of the dictators are apparently a good and sufficient excuse.
Dear Marianne, First of all I want to thank you for your invaluable work! I deeply respect your efforts. You are a woman of high competence and integrity!
I have been reading your articles with great interest! My thoughts after reading this one is that people working in the child protection sector basically have the choice between two ethical goals; They can either choose to close their eyes, close their hearts and go ahead and destroy or they can open their eyes, open their hearts and help.
You mentioned one case where the parents were living in poverty. One social worker decided to look and discovered that both parents were illiterate which meant that they were not able to read and find out what kind of help they could get. She opened up her heart and gave them the help they needed in order to improve the living conditions for their children.
If this social worker`s attitude was the opposite, she would decide not to look. The parents would be deemed incapable of taking care of their children based on their living conditions. The social worker would not open her heart to help, but instead destroy the family by taking the children away and placing them in families she believed to be better for them.
I know, from my own experience, that children can be challenging at time.As parents we can suddenly be confronted with problems we are unprepared for. It can be quite bewildering to know how to handle such situations. As parents, we try different ways and make mistakes. We need professional help to give us understanding and the necessary guidelines how to deal with the situation.
I will take some examples from my own family experience. Together with my husband I have four children aged between 16 and 23. The two oldest never had big problems whereas the two youngest have challenged us more. Our youngest girl had some late speech developments which has also given her some learning challenges. However, our greatest challenge was dealing with her aggression. From an early age, we had a really difficult time dealing with her temper tantrums that would come every time there were some changes in our schedules. She would also start screaming and hitting us whenever we were invited to somebody or we had invited somebody home to us. She gave every member of the family different orders and would give us a hard time if we didn`t obey her. It was obvious that we needed help.
Here in Switzerland we have got something called “Erziehungsberatung”, which is a free service for parents who are faced with challenges with bringing up their children. We are forever grateful for the help and advice we received from the skilled workers there. As parents we learned how to deal with her and she also went in a group where she, together with other children her age, learned to deal with her aggressions etc. We also worked closely with the school personel and received all the help we needed. My parents informed us that she could have some aspects of Asperger, which we realized was the case. That also answered our question why she was so obsessed with timetables, dates, prices etc. We were amazed to find out that she knew exactly when busses and trains came and left. Still she is the one who makes sure that each member of the family gets on the right bus, train etc. She will also remind us of important dates. In other words a great family resource!We were always welcome to the “Erziehungsberatung” and were always met with respect and were greatly helped.
Our youngest son has ADHD and was very disorganized and had great concentration problems. We went to the “Erziehungsberatung” to get some advice how to deal with him too. It was a very challenging time for my husband and me. At the same time I was dealing with some health issues which made me very tired. Our daughter got the same as me; low thyroid.I was really priveleged that both my mother in law and her mother helped me a great deal with the children and in the household at that time. We also got lots of helpful advice how to help our son.
Things turned brighter and we learned how to deal with our challenges in the best way. And in fact I`m glad we were challenged. Because now I know and can understand how it is like for other families to deal with challenges similar to ours.
But it makes me so sad and upset when I hear about parents who have had their children taken away based on problems similar to those we had. It scares me to think about what might have happened in our case had we lived as a family in Norway. I ask myself if barnevernet might have taken our kids away had they learned about our daughters aggressive conduct and our sons problems with concentrating and doing his homework? They would possibly have deemed us incapable of taking care of our children and just taken them away from us instead of looking, opening up their hearts and helping us as they did here where we live in Switzerland.
Dear Marianne, I replied to you. But somehow my long reply got lost before or after I posted it. I will try to write it again later. But for now i just want to thank you for your invaluable work! I deeply respect your efforts. You are a very competent lady with integrity! I have been reading your articles with great interest and also this one was very interesting. Keep up the good work!
Oh, there it came anyway:-)
It was held for moderation for some reason. It is now posted 🙂
I just wanted to add that families have different problems and sometimes they can be quite complex.That is why there is a need for highly qualified expertise in the social services who have open eyes to see many things at once. And just as much, they need to be people who have the ability for empathy and willingness to help.
What I can say is just Amin. You are right.
Thank you, Delight in Truth! I really appreciate your website and have been blessed by learning so much from you lately! I will continue to read and contribute. My Christian friends here in Switzerland are all very shocked at what the barnevernet are doing in Norway and we are praying for the Bodnariu family. Blessings!
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I believe I can distill this down to a simple truth: the abused becomes the abuser. Knut was abused (greatly), even if he claims he was not. He is “re-paying” this abuse by actively abusing children (which he’s done via BV his entire adult life). I suspect that many employees of CPS organizations throughout the Western world have had abusive childhoods themselves. Such a tragedy. Rather than being an advocate for children and their parents, he has committed the same crime (over and over)! I wouldn’t want to be him on the Day of Judgment.
I wonder – are you real christians? You assume – you draw conclusions – you know all that is to be said about me – you judge me – you curse me a.s.o. because of my worik – I as many others who work with humans are humans ourselves and we may do wrong sometimes, but our intensions is good. You can be a cop, a nurse, a doctor, a teacher, a kindergarden employee, a CPS – we do our professional job as best we can. We – who – share the same faith and I hope shall spend eternity togheter should discuss and end playing God.
You’ve got it backwards, Knut. You and your organization are the ones who are playing God.
And please don’t play the “Christian” card.
Good intentions is not enough. Would you like social workers to interfer in your own family and take away all your four kids? If the answer is no, why do you do this to your neighbour? Would you like a surprise control visit from Barnevernsvakten late at night? If not, why do you think other parents apprecitate this? As a Christian you are supposed to treat other humans as you would like to be treated yourself. So it you would not like interference in your private life, do not interfer in your neighbour’s private life. It is that simple. If your neighbour ask for help, then see what you can do. But “help” is not kidnapping the children. You are not helping people by kidnapping their children.
Nor are you helping the children (I know you agree, Cecilie). The need to be together is a mutual urge between children and their parents. This feeling is selective, the child seeks not any adult who can provide this and that opportunity or advantage, it is a specialised feeling of needing one’s own. This very special feeling is known under the name of “love”.
I would like to share my experience on barnevernet and those that work there.
One year ago, I wrote a letter to Solveig Horne with my thoughts about some of the things I believed was wrong in barnevernet. (she never replied)
See https://www.facebook.com/notes/barnevernsofre/min-epost-til-solveig-horne-20-feb-2015/877896438935354
Knowing that 30% of the employees quit every year, and that average stay in a job in barnevernet is 1.5 year (some cps ment it was 3 years), made me wonder why.
Then I saw a video of a former employee of barnevernet telling how hard it was to work there. That they had to promise loyalty to the system and the idea and policy behind their work. That she didn’t have the heart to continue work there because of all the lack of empathy and wrongdoings she experience in her work. She was told not to use her heart and feelings.
This made me conclude that all those with empathy, quit their job. And then it’s obvious what kind of people that remains there.
Knut’s posts and replies have strengthen my thoughts and believes on this matter. My personal encounter with employees in barnevernet have also indicated that this might be the truth.
Of course, I wont claim that all employees in barnevernet lack empathy, it would highly depend on the leadership shown in each agency. How must empathy that is allowed, is up to the leader of each agency.
One year and 6 months ago, a new leader was hired in my hometown agency of barnevernet. In a matter of 2-3 months, sick leave raised to a staggering 27%
See http://www.agderposten.no/nyheter/krisen-i-barnevernet-hver-4-sykemeldt-1.1357126 which have a graph that shows the sick leave.
Why this happened, is to me unknown, but my thought are about the possible reason for this. That the new leader is not accepting “soft” souls that use their brain and feelings.
Another related issue,I brought up in my epost to Solveig Horne, is the lack of knowledge and experience of those that have such power to remove children from their homes.
Employees at barnevernet are usually social workers. It requires a bachelor degree in social services, an education which there is absolutely no requirements to join. And believe this, no one can fail exam! And if they want to go on and do a master, the requirement is only a C on average.
This is, as you understand, a huge problem.
Just reading what some CPS employees write on social media, will enlighten how bad educated they are, and how much they lack such important traits as feelings, empathy, remorse, and ability to put themselves in others perspective.
These traits are essential in making a good communication with parents to solve problems in their family life. The lack og these traits, are, in my opinion, the largest contribution to abuse of power as we see in many cases, like the Bodnariu case.
I gave wrong link to my email (it’s norwegian). Here’s the english translation:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/barnets-beste-english/our-email-to-solveig-horne-february-20-2015/1700150553566043
Removing children from their biological parents is crime against humanity. If CPS employees are out to fight, they better pick someone their own size and leave the vulnerable helpless children. These children will one day be adults and will demand their freedom and the price for their lost childhood. Norway simply cannot deny that.
Knut Nygårds story is interesting. I have a friend and ske was adopted from Korea when she was a few months old. She thinks and speaks about her familiy, that she only have some information about very much. She also suffers emotionally with depressions and a deep feeling of being unwanted. So if Knut never suffered in any eay, this is not the case for everyone else.
I don`t know if I understand you correctly, Knut? Do you mean that we as Christians aren`t supposed to walk in holiness?
Of cause – the priest part is only an example of what we might think is christians not need to be so. There are priests that are atheists. I have always my faith on the inside everywhere I go 24/7, His wisdom and guidance is with me both at work and elsewhere.
You are lying to yourself, Knut. His wisdom and guidance?
I feel very strongly that we are living in a time where it will become increasingly difficult to live as genuine Christians who really want to live a life that is pleasing to God. Very many are already experiencing the worldly losses that come as a consequence of following Jesus and keeping His Word. Genuine Christians lose their jobs, their prestige, yea even their lives! People proclaiming to be Christians will stand against us. It will be really tough! I pray that I must be strong when I am faced with the losses and keep my eyes on the prize that never can be lost. But I know that Jesus is with me and everyone who truly follow Him till the very end! May the lord make all of us strong in His strength!
Do not fear – this acitvism is built on fear. We have no situation going on where christians more than everybody else is persecuted or followed. Don’t fantasy – wake up and look around you. Today is fine – but the world is in change and the safety all felt in our societies is no longer the same. We in Norway have no experience with this sort of thinking – watch your back – think before you go out – arm yourself – think alarms and surveillance – this is not because of the CPS, but of a shift in time – Europe is in change and things might get out of control.
“Do not fear – this acitvism is built on fear.”
I disagree strongly with this statement, Knut. This activism is based on love.
Things are already “out of control” in Norway.
And yes, Knut! If a Christian teacher is forced to teach the children at school that living as a homosexual is good and normal, yes, then he/she is sinning against God. The teacher is then telling a lie. It might be that the teacher will lose his/her job by refusing to tell a lie (like those Christian bakers and florists who lose their businesses for refusing to deliver their goods to homo-weddings). But what do you want; please the world or heed His Word? Gain the world and lose your reward, or lose in this world and gain heavenly glories?
Everyone is resposible for their own actions or passivity, Our main mission is to be among people – preach the gospel – pray for the sick and vulnerable – not hide in fear – be an example – talk with all kinds of people. There will come a time where the christians will be dependend on each other, but we are not there yet. I think a theacher has no problem in the common school if hen speak out about parts of the education that is against his faith . or hen can leave if he don’t find peace with what hen is doing.
“Everyone is resposible for their own actions or passivity,”
If you truly believe this Knut, why haven’t answered Delight’s challenge?
And then it was the CPS part. How do you apply this here? Well,what is God`s will? He created us. He created man and woman. It was good. He told them to multiply. It was good. Then came sin. It was not good anymore. Sin destroyed what was good. Sin separated us from God. But God so loved the world that He gave his only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life! There is no greater love than this! It is wonderful! It is marvelous!!!!
When I think about His great love, how should not I then give glory to His Name!
God does not delight in it when someone takes children away from their parents. It causes so much pain. We should rather help and make a way back like God made a way back for us by sending Jesus Christ who took on Himself the punishment we deserved.
You know what I love about this Bodnariu case? There have been thousands of Christian Romanians who have gone on the streets proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Saviour, praying, singing, witnessing. They have been mocked, but they are not ashamed of the Gospel!!!! That is power! They have been a light to the world! They will recieve a great reward in heaven! They have really been a powerful testimony to me! I love them because they are my brothers and sisters. They are spreading the sweet fragrance of the Gospel! Just look at those videos where they are singing and worshipping God and saying the Lord`s prayer! That is mighty!
“12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. 13 It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. 14 So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; 15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. 16 But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, 17 and you will be hated by all because of My name. 18 Yet not a hair of your head will perish. 19 By your endurance you will gain your lives.” – Luke 21
Hildi,
I agree with everything you have written in your last four comments. There are incidents in my country (the US) that are similar to the ones in Norway although they are not as common. God will use His people through the power of His Spirit to be witnesses to all. You have seen it firsthand in the Christian Romanians. I think that God is already preparing His people for difficult times ahead. Praise the Lord!
Neither you nor I know the facts or the content of the wording in the conclusion for the acute intervention. There is no God-part in the legal case between the parents and the CPS. The people in Romania has been used by activist and chronic CPS-haters and are no acting if they were taken by lunacy. Bodnariu is for these people just fuel and ammunition for their own agendaes. Bodnariu should have been given good councelling months ago – now the clock is ticking and for small children time is another experience than for grown ups. The family should – if almost every card is on the table . been reunited and given help measures months ago if what they tell rumenian tv is all there is to tell – that is my opinion from the outside looking in.
Knut, you keep saying the same thing. “we do not know the content about the acute intervention”
I am telling you: WE DO KNOW
The Bodnarius are exemplary Christians, a good faithful family, there was no drugs, no acohol, no physical abuse and no sexual abuse.
This was an impulsive overreaction of the part of CPS. We know that people in the community including the school headmaster were AGAINST the acute intervention.
It was a terrible decision to take the kids. And know, God made it in such a way to expose the system and bring shame on Norway.
I tell you, Knut. My heart is crying for Ruth, Marius and each single of their lovely children. The pain is unbearable. And I know it is the same for thousands upon thousands around the world. Their pain is our pain. Good night.
Amen.
I feel the same. In God we trust, and in Him only.
I don’t know them, but I heard this video and those 3:47 tell a christian cps that this should have been parents you can help with help measures
????
I will translate.
“Knut Nygaard
MARCH 5, 2016 @ 3:47 PM
I don’t know them, but I heard this video and those 3:47 tell a christian cps that this should have been parents you can help with help measures”.
What Knut is saying here is that he [a christian cps] thinks the Bodnarius should not have had their children confiscated. He thinks voluntary aid measures would have been sufficient.
Personally I think the Bodnarius would have been better off without any interference from Naustdal barnevern. I do not believe in the magical powers of CPS which is looking after its own interests, not the interests of the children.
Thanks, Cecilie.
So, Knut is saying that he thinks the system made a mistake but that there should have been interference.
” I do not believe in the magical powers of CPS which is looking after its own interests, not the interests of the children.”
From what I’ve heard about this CPS in Norway, I am in complete agreement.
God’s blessings…
I just read that the parents have accepted to be examined be a psycologist done by a neutral one. The case is set for the month of May. Then nothing but this and visiting the children will happen. The 2-300 who will gather here in Norway 16. april will not change a thing – this case has it’s own life. I find this case odd and I also find it odd that Fox news is reporting this case, but silence is golden in Norway.
14 and 15 March 2016 the proceedings in Fjordane District Court will take place. Lawyer Ragnhild Torgersen is representating the parents. Apparently Barnevernet have applied for judicial review of the decision of the County Committee for Social Issues Sogn and Fjordane concerning the emergency care order. I believe the Bodnarius won but Barnevernets administrative decision was given suspensive effect. It is quite unusual. Barnevernet must be fighting very hard to keep the kids in custody.
https://www.domstol.no/no/Nar-gar-rettssaken1/Nar-gar-rettssaken/?cid=AAAA1602040955376552144OHYQLAZZZZZEJBAvtale
Barnevernet needs to watch “Larry Boy and the Fib From Outer Space.” Lies have a way of growing.
Here’s a short clip:
So the county board decided, that the children should be returned, but they were not? I also thought that the family has to wait until May or June, this looks better now. Thank you for the information.
The main proceedings pursuant to section 4-12 of the Children Welfare Act concerning permanent placement in foster homes will take place in May. But the proceedings pursuant to section 4-6 subsection 2 concerning the emergency care order will take place on 14-15 March.
So…we have to wait until May. This will backfire on the system which thinks that putting that much time between events will quiet the situation. I think this situation is only beginning to become a news item. By May, so many will have heard of this case that the extra time will only allow for more involvement in protests. Will it make a difference in the outcome? It depends on how Norway wants to be seen by the world.
The parents acceptance and the neutral examination is no news case -and of cause – the case has it’s own life – neither you or some romenians – a slilent media – can make a difference in the outcome. I understand now that there is nothing more to do than wait – the parents have accepted the case handling. This is a case between the parents and their lawyer and the Naustdal CPS – not me, Norwegians or Norway.
So, show me a statement where the parents have accepted the case handling. If you are right about protests making no difference in this case, wait until the next case like it comes along. There will be no “golden” silence in Norway. If I am wrong on this, Norway is lost. And how can you even think to call this silence “golden?” You are a sick man.
I believe judicial review of the emergency care order is coming up in Fjordane District Court on 14-15 March. That is next week. Here is the link to the schedule:
https://www.domstol.no/no/Nar-gar-rettssaken1/Nar-gar-rettssaken/?cid=AAAA1602040955376552144OHYQLAZZZZZEJBAvtale
Seems right. Vegsund is the lawyer for Naustdal municipality.
Here’s a take off on the “fib” toon above. Lies have a way of causing destruction, Knut.
I don`t know if I`m right, but wasn`t there something about the psychologist that barnevernet had picked for this case didn`t have time to look into the Bodnariu case until March and that he or she would need 3 months for the investigation? I found it weird that barnevernet couldn`t get anyone earlier. Are the psychologists really so busy? I have heard that they have their own psychologists working for them and that they make their incomes from cases like this. Isn`t it quite unfair since the psychologist would probably lean towards making the decisions barnevernet wants?
I heard that BBC was going to make a big documentary about barnevernet in Norway. Does anybody know anything? I think they were supposed to have been in Norway in the end of February. I guess their is no back for barnevernet`s hiding once a BBC documentary about barnevernet is out. Barnevernet will be exposed and under a lot of pressure.The protests won`t end either until there is a drastic change for the better within the child protection services in Norway.
This post seems legit, Hildi. It seems there is hope the BBC will make a documentary.
God’s blessings…
This story has now also cracked the American mainstream media:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/02/25/christian-children-seized-by-norway-reunited-with-parents-3-months-later.html
Knut doesn’t know what he is talking about. Barnevernet do on occasion reverse their thoughts. That happened just now in a case where a 16 year old girl was returned to her father after 8 years in foster care.
http://www.advokatsylte.no/barn/fikk-flytte-hjem-etter-8-ar-i-fosterhjem
The golden silence you talk about is the fear instilled in parents dealing with barnevernet.
Where Barnenvernet does what it does best pretends to be friends and then Backstabs the very parents that cling to them for help.
It was silence that got barnevernet where it is today.
Sorry Knut you play all kinds of cards but I have to give it to you. BARNEBEAST TRAINED YOU WELL.
If you would be the cristian you claim to be tell me how did it feel when you parted children from their visitation with their parrents.
How was it when the child cried and you ripped him again from his mother’s arms.
It’s a horrific sight but you told yourself that this is for your own good kid we made up some stuff about your parrents so you can’t be with them.
A real godly men would have had a real hard time with that. A parent for that reason would have had a real hard time.
You are so confident that our protest do notting you are wrong.
Wait until we start a boycott campaign against everything norway makes or sells.well see then but I assume that you will be smart enough to release the children by April 16th.
The more you drag your feet the more our outcry will become louder.
Good point Daniel. How long before Norway really feels the burn?
Has anyone seen the description of a psychopath? I had a look, just for my own better understanding and this is what I found: “A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse. Psychopaths tend to lack normal human emotions such as guilt. They are also often highly intelligent and skilled at manipulating others. Also, psychopaths seem to appear normal. You would probably never guess there was something wrong with them. Note, not all psychopaths are serial killers.” Sourced from Urban Dictionary. So… Let me understand. An emotionless person who can’t connect to his biological family and has no single desire or curiosity to reconnect with them… Sound like someone??
Cristina,
This is a real possibility. Although the one to whom I think you refer hasn’t fooled anyone here, it all seems to fit. He needs prayer.
God’s blessings…
Thanks Chris! It will be exiting when the BBC documentary comes out!!
I am just cleaning up in all my thousands of family photos now on my laptop. It is just so lovely and fun to look back at all the sweet memories from family holidays, parties, outings and other special events. All the while I am thinking about family Bodnariu…. I have had the joy to look at the mind-blowing beautiful pictures of their happy days together as a family. Those pics could really win some rewards!!!!!
The family picture is already in my mind of them all happily reunited again under their apple tree. Oh, how we will be rejoicing when we see that pic, won`t we!!! I plead to the Lord that that day will come soon and that family Bodnariu can fill their albums again with thousands of lovely pictures ! I pray that their home will be filled with laughter and singing again!!!!:-)
I pray that barnevernet will see that the greatest gift they can give to the Bodnariu children is to bring them all together again ; sisters, brothers, mamma and pappa! And I pray that it won`t happen only for them, but for ALL who have had their children unjustly taken away from them!!!!!
Barnevernet should never give excuses by saying that it`s too late. No, it is not too late!!!! Better late than never! Family ties are strong. I am sure the children hold a picture of their parents and siblings in their minds and hearts every day and just long to come home again!!!!! I am sure they are praying. And I am sure God hears prayer! Nothing is impossible for Him! Actually the oldest girl Eliana`s name means; “God answers”! YEA!! God will answer!!!!:-)
Yes, I heard that too, that the psychologist did not have time and it would take few months before the evaluation is ready. Very weird, all the time these children are away from their parents. But as stated before, the court will be already in March.
The BBC was (if I am well informed) in Norway already, not sure when the documentary is ready though. They came also for the Czech mother who was supposed to have court 2 weeks ago. Her children were removed almost 5 years ago. Unfortunately the court was postponed because they did not find translators in time. They only let it know few days before the court date.
You’re welcome, Hildi.
Your pictures and anyone’s family pictures that bring back joy should be a reminder to all how serious this situation is.
And thank you for sharing what Eliana means. It is a wonderful name and truthful.
It is never too late, not even after 8 years as seen in this article. Daughter was returned to the father after 8 years, because she still had great bond with him. This is amazing, because they were only allowed to see each other 3 to 6 times a year. There is always hope.
http://www.advokatsylte.no/barn/fikk-flytte-hjem-etter-8-ar-i-fosterhjem
Thank you for your encouraging words, Pavla.
You are welcome, Chris. All these sad stories, I am also very sorry for the grandparents and other family members, who often have also very limited contact with the children. Its like Barnevern tries to erase previous life and replace it with new life (foster family). Otherwise I can not imagine why on earth would they isolate the children in such a horrible way. Separating siblings is another crime.
I saw there had been some new postings under this article, so I read some of the older comments as well. One of them was by Hildi on 5 March:
One thing she wrote was this:
“I was really priveleged that both my mother in law and her mother helped me a great deal with the children and in the household at that time. We also got lots of helpful advice how to help our son.”
One very bad Barnevern case was “Averøy-saken”. A young mother suffered from epilepsy. Barnevernet wanted to take the baby right away, but instead had to go about it piece by piece. At one stage they planted a person in the home to note down everything from morning to night (in order to find out that Mrs Fagereng could not manage the baby and the housework.) Later they forced husband and wife to go and stay at a “family center”, Viktoria-senteret, allegedly to learn something. It was just a prison, nobody taught them anything and besides they didn’t need it. Barnevernet’s actions drove the mother to the very edge of death, she was hospitalised and it was touch and go. The family escaped Barnevernet’s madness by the skin of their teeth.
I thought of this case when I read about the way you were helped by the family, Hildi, because in the Fagereng case, Mrs Fagereng’s mother and other relatives lived close by, and do you know: They were FORBIDDEN to help. Her mother was not allowed to give the daughter a hand with the housework or the baby. Barnevernet’s people said that she was “just going to be a grandmother” ! As if it were unnatural for a grandmother to help her daughter and grandchild. Of course Barnevernet aimed to make Mrs Fagereng break down and then they could take the child easily.
Since you are Norwegian, Hildi, you might find some interest in reading something about the case. John Hollen has written a book about it, it is from 2005:
Formynderterror – Historien om en barnevernsak (Authoritarian terror – The story of a Barnevern case). It is a very readable book, out of print, I believe, but can be borrowed from libraries, though I don’t know how easy that is from Switzerland. Several of us have written about aspects of the case:
http://www.barnasrett.no/Relevante%20Saker/averoy-saken.htm
So that was Barnevernet’s “help measures” for the Fagerengs. When they couldn’t get hold of the baby right away, they did their best to prevent the most natural help of all: from a loving and willing family, and instead subjected Mrs Fagereng, who had epilepsy, to intolerable strain – allegedly to “test” whether she was a capable enough mother. In reality to get the baby.
Cf the section about illness and handicap here:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html
(in case f Barnevernet in that case too forced a person on the family to sit in the house and write down all they did “wrong”, and the grandmother was not “allowed” to help by bringing one of the children to and from medical treatment).
It is almost 5 months ago that Delight published this video of Marianne.
Rereading this thread only reinforces my current thoughts about the Barnevernet in Norway. The Bodnariu children have been reunited since this post was published. Still, the Bodnarius appear to have restrictions (of speech?) even though they are “free.” Few know the results of the “deal” made between Bodanriu and Barnevernet lawyers.
All of those who commented above know that there has not been any major change in Norway. Everyday, more children are taken into a system that claims to “help” when, in reality, it takes children away from their best chance. It takes children away from their God given parent(s). There are too many “mistakes” being made. Mistakes are made in all countries, but Norway is at or almost at the top when it comes to acting on behavioristic philosophies that cause harm.
Everyone should listen again to the video at the top of this post. Professor Skanland had it right when she spoke in Oslo months ago and the truth of her statement hasn’t changed. I know quite a bit more about her now than I did then. She is a voice of clarity in the wilderness that is Norway.
Nearly all of the comments above, including Hildi’s mentioned just above, still hold up well. There is one glaring exception.
How do we give real help to Norway? We continue to do what we can and to pray. It has been pointed out throughout this conversation that we have our own backyard. It is a truth that can’t be denied. When you are out in your yard and you see a child taken from its best opportunity, from those who love him/her/them the most, one must not look the other way. Looking the other way goes against anything good that God puts in a man whether one believes in God or not. Will the failed policies of guilty CPS organizations ever be changed? Because I believe in God, I believe they will be changed eventually. Until that time, we can do what we can…