THE RISE AND FALL (?) OF THE NORWEGIAN CPS

Chris Reimers is publishing this story and subsequent analysis of the Norwegian CPS:

by Elsa Christensen

Part 1

It is Ascension day, Thursday the fifth of May, this year. A mother walks through the gates of Vilde “Home for Mothers,” never to return.

She takes her son with her, a boy of about five months.

The next days will be the first days that the mother and the baby get to be together without any public surveillance in a governmental institution, surveillance by the CPS […]

Continue reading below…

via THE RISE AND FALL (?) OF THE NORWEGIAN CPS — Wings of the Wind

28 comments on “THE RISE AND FALL (?) OF THE NORWEGIAN CPS

  1. Here is a comment published on Wings of the Wind blog, which we may have to pay a closer attention:

    “My wife and I live in Norway and we are from Latin America, with 3 kids, two of them are girls. I can not imagine this happening. The family Nurse made questions to my little daughter who is 6 years old when we go to the regular control appointment, and that nurse doesn’t let me even say any word to my daughter during the visit (there have been CPS cases started by nurses), my little daughter learned in the kindergarden that she is free from us (parents) and she has to do what she think, and she has been asked to inform whatever happen at home. We are scared. But nothing has happened so far, the problem is that we have to take care what we say or not at home. Is scary to live like that, we have to think twice how to give a hug to our little daughter, and that is hard because where we come from, is very normal and exiting to give a hug and a kiss to our kids (that is love in all sence and kids need that!). I totally agree that kids with problems in the family should be evaluated and taken away to another family or adoption if there is proof of continuous physical violence, but in Norwat this is becoming scary when I read cases of kids taken away when they are just born, or for very minor reasons. Honestly, I don’t see my daughters growing in a country like this if this situation continues, and now even more when this article says that they are considering the evaluation from pregnacy! Our second daughter is going to be put under educational and pedagogic control at the ower secondary school because she “can not learn as the other kids”, how can she learn as a native norwegian kid if she is still learning the norwegian language!? That now will be a part of a report that for sure will be considered in the future, I repeat, is scary”.

    • The comment from Anonymous2 on Wings of the Wind contains some very similar experiences to my own with bv. My 11 year old daughter was observed hugging me a lot, which bv interpreted as flirting. At least they acknowledged that I didn’t initiate it, but still they accused me of not putting a stop to it, telling me that it’s only ok to sit down and put an arm around her occasionally. My daughter was devastated when I told them what they had said. Perhaps it’s different in different cultures, but in my view a father and daughter can hug and show affection without either of them seeing it as incestuous. In our case it’s just a “I’m glad that you’re here with me” sign.

      According to my experiences with bv, it’s better to just leave Norway if you ever get involved with them. If there’s no obvious problem they’ll find one to escalate. If they don’t find one they’ll invent one and look for evidence that could support it. In my year(s) of contact, they were implementing “guidance” and “help measures” but still even now have not properly defined what they have been concerned about. But now that my daughter has fled the country due to bv – and I will be following- I guess we’ll never know for sure.

  2. A brave mother who left this place with her baby! Hopefully many others will be following her example in the days to come, because most of the children are removed from their mothers when staying there. There is an increasing focus on the mothers homes in Norway nowadays, showing the cruel way mothers are treatened in those observation institutions.

  3. I stop to read after I had discovered a remark about Kari Killén, labelling her as a BV guru. I have discussed her role and the importance in the debate about child wefare previously, partly motivated by the fact that I have known two ladies (of Czech origin) who studied “Barnevernpedagog” profession at Norwegian universities and they have been working in this field (CPS). I asked them if thy had studied a lot from Kari Killén but the response was negative in both cases. They had to read many materials, even in English, but Kari Killén wasn´t on the list. It´s not true about all universities you can find (sometimes) that the students may study one or two books from Killén- but dozens of books from another authors including foreign ones.

    I am quite lazy, so I am goging to use google translator to copy my old contribution which I wrote in Czech language. Now google translator with some checking (but not al):
    ” I did not understand why Ms Killen is considered an authority (guru) for the workers of Barnevern.. Here you can find links to all Norwegian universities and colleges where you can get a bachelor’s degree and/or a master’s degree in Barnevernpedagog: https://utdanning.no/studiebeskrivelse/barnevern.
    So you can easily go through the pages of all school syllabuses of its theoretical subjects and count for yoursef how many times in the literature prescribed for mastering theoretical subjects (psychology, social pedagogy, theory of development of children, the theory of science etc.) will appear a book or article written by Kari Kilén. . The number wil be zero in most cases, with some exceptions. I.e. When it comes to the University of Oslo and Akerhus you can encounter name Kari Killen in one course. . Besides many other sources students are offered to study one of her text, the same applies to Nord universitet. Theoretical subjects usually require to pass a written examination in length from 4 to 6 hours where students have to write an essay – eg. Compare different theories and approaches. My argument can be fairly easily through the signpost check syllabi are in pdf format, so you can use google translator (preferably in English).
    To illustrate the trend I can copy syllabuses from Lillehammer University College, it is also the university where I hit one book from Killen. Upon request, I can copy handouts from other schools, if you did not enjoy such work. 🙂
    Basic Courses: – psychological, sociological knowledge https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34609/34610
    Socio-educational experience in caring for children and adolescents:
    https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34757/34758
    Communication, relationships with clients in social work education: https: //www.emweb.no/hist/node/34757/34758
    Psychology- mental disorders in children and adolescents:
    https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34770/38432
    Professional skills in child care and preparation of thesis
    https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34770/38432
    Methodological procedures in Barnevernpedagog field, scientific theory:
    https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34770/38432
    Asistance and case studies in child care (there is the only one Killen I was able to find)
    Services and programs for children at risk (extensive literature, nothing from Killen)
    https://www.emweb.no/hist/node/34776/38434

    • Your comment is interesting, Veronika.

      Your complete focus is on the warped woman and not the story. This has been up for several days now and no one has attempted to discredit any other information in the account. There have been no cries of “foul” from the usual voices or even any new voices for that matter.

      I take this silence as a sign that this account is true as I have always believed as the source of the account is very credible. I was skeptical for about 1 second after hearing this account. I’ll admit I was slow. It took me that long to compare this with all of the other stories and realize everything lined up logically.

      Cries of “foul” bring attention. Attention is not wanted here by some.

      No one in Norway’s CPS wishes for others to know that the advanced society needs Mothers’ homes to “help” Norwegians among others. It might be seen as a weakness in the Norwegian society.

    • Kari Killeen is not in her CPS heads as we do our daily public services. Nowadays Øyvind Kvello is the man behind an ongoing implementing of thinking and method around whole Norway.

      /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndO8SHMktIk

      • Here is a reseach done about how the CPS do the investigations and how the standard seems to be – among them reactions from the users – you may scroll through it a see if you find KK – I’m not sure, but I’m quite sure you find Kvello.

        One of the reseacher – Skilbred – had my office room in the Laksevåg town hall by the Puddefjord. There was a story to that room. He and some other workers used to realx to playing dart until …. a situation in a meeting with parents came out of control and the dart arrows were used as arrows. When the first Norwegian soap opera – the seven sisters – was produced they used this particular office room – it was large – had classic class and a veiw

        Øyvin Christiansen was my supervisor for a couple of years in the 1990’s.

        Here is what the researchers found
        https://www.bufdir.no/global/RKBU_Nord_Statusrapport_om_barnevernets_undersokelsesarbeid.pdf

        • Standardized tests in themselves are a good idea, however I don’t think the lack of standardized tests were the major problems. I think juridical issues to be far more urgent: real juridical review of expert opinions — emphasizing that due to the concern letter I am mentioning all the time — and far more quick remedy at a real court (District Court level) against an emergency care order.

  4. There are partly new “leading lights” now, but Killén is still central in the field, not to mention that her methods and conclusions have had lasting influence in social work in Norway. “Risk indicators” are a favourite of hers:
    http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7035
    She is a favourite of Inga Marte Thorkildsen, a former Minister of child affairs (from the party SV – the left socialists).
    “Kari Killén er en av de klokeste mennesker´ne jeg kjenner” (KK is one of the wisest people I know)

    We notice that when nrk (the national broadcasting) had a tv debate on 21 April, they had called Kari Killén, and had her stand beside the Minister of Child and Equality Solveig Horne in the final “round” of interviewing, as the senior all know whose word conted more than anybody’s. Here is an (anonymous) social worker about her:
    “Jeg fulgte med på NRK den 21.04 og må bare støtte bl.a Kari Killèn som har vært en viktig røst inn i barnevernet de drøyt 40 år jeg selv har jobbet der eller i tilknytning.”
    (I saw the nrk debate on 21 April and just have to support e.g Kari Killén who has been an important voice in Barnevernet in the more than 40 years I myself have worked there or in connection with them.)
    Comment by Albetross, under this article:
    http://standpunktet.no/2016/01/22/barnevernet-i-ferd-med-a-bli-et-internasjonalt-skjellsord/

    Killén is now past 80, but still very active, not least in suggesting that there should be far more psychiatry brought into child affairs, making for more diagnoses and treatment than there is already. She also holds that a large proportion (she said at one stage 25%) of all the children she could observe when she strolled through shopping centres, were not happy with their parents and “something” should be done.

    • Due to the concern letter initiated by Gro Hillestad Thune, Thea Totland, Nina Witoszek, Elvis Nwosu and Einar C. Salvesen I would say bring in more justice first, and a juridical review of psychology expert should be mandatory — how strong or weak the observational basis is; how grounded or speculative the conclusion was; were there any controversies within the opinion or with facts or among opinions of different experts. I would say this is a must due to ECHR.

      More observational basis and more grounded conclusions could be also viewed as more psychology however I am afraid Kari Killen has something else in mind…

  5. So glad you could finally come, Knut, and welcome to the Wings of the Wind once again. You have been here before but it has been awhile I think.

    You have made two comments here thus far and both deflect attention away from the posted story. You mention KK as Veronika has, attempt to downplay her role, and discuss darts and a soap opera.

    What about the Mothers’ Homes, Knut. You act as if you are blind. I’m quite sure you have read the account or you wouldn’t be here, but I admit that I am guessing.

    Do you have Mothers’ Homes and how corrupt are they, Knut?

    • First an adivce – don’t loose your Chistian behaviour and language although you have become an activist and diciple og the language professor.

      Second – a history lesson – that might bring us back to my childhood – I don’t remember. In Norway we had after WW2 School for housewifes. We both remember what a houswife was – a married woman staying at home with most of the responsibility for the chidren while the husband was on his work. My mother was a member of the last generation of housewifes.

      These schools for housewifes often had an own department for real babies that were used as education material for these students later to become mothers. Here they got supervised training.

      The children – babies – were in a orphanage either in the same building as the school or just beside – the children – as the two twins you see in the link below were a part of the education material. For these two the history behind was that the mother died durig their birth and the father got to depressed to take the responsibility. The placements could be either temporary or for the whole future. The reasons behind were among others no parents, divorce and one parent – money seems to be more a problem in those days than now.

      Our queen – Sonja . attended this particular school for houswifes in 1962.

      http://www.budstikka.no/helg/helg/bollebakst-i-forste-etasje-bleieskift-i-andre/s/2-2.310-1.8301100

      During the seventies the housewifes became history, but some of the orphanages remained. For two years in the early 80’s I was the leader of Bondellia home for both infants with or without mothers. Seems empty and not used on this picture
      http://87.237.213.17/region.php?var1=norge_27_2_3160732_Bondelia_-11079786.jpg_11079786_1668155_500_375_Sverre%20Nyg%C3%A5rd_Det%20gamle%20barnehjemmet

      During this period I witnessed something I thought was history – the adoption of infants. Our job was to document to the local CPS how the mother and child worked out. Most of it was obvious from the start. We also had some young mothers that continued their education – they were around 15 years old – they stayed at home and come to us for some hours every day.

      • How have I lost my Christian behavior, Knut?

        Most important, you have failed to answer my question:

        What about the Mothers’ Homes, Knut, the ones discussed in this post?

      • So, I do get to welcome you to the Wings of the Wind once again, Knut.

        How have I lost my Christian behavior?

        More important,

        What about the Mothers’ Homes, Knut, the ones discussed in this post?

        • This is very strange. It so appears that you are commenting on my blog. I think I’ve got it figured out now.

          Please continue, Knut.

      • Knut,

        I found it really pitiable and miserable that you seem not to respond at all about the risk of separation anxiety disorder topic asked from you in many posts (and as far as understand, not beause your response had been moderated out) and then now you come up with ad hominem attacks and playing Christian card…

        Have you run out of arguments? Or do I misunderstand something?

        I have not become a disciple of the language professor.
        However the language professor seems to have some first-hand information direclty from witnesses — the case of thick slides of bread for example.

        Again, testimony by a witness is not just an opinion.

        • She is in Norwegian context a nobody. She is only interesting for you in the movement for something else and the movement to stear up most possible fear. She’s living in the past with her chronic friends. We other change from day to day – her dusty archive is for the most part out-dated – as her friends are. She is just an opinionmaker – nothing more.

        • Knut, imagine your own child being taken away from you because he was 1 kilo underweight. That is how BV took Tyler from Amy in 2013. And Amy is an American citizen. This is absolutely crazy. It is a human rights violation. THAT is why professor Skanland does what she does. But you defend the system that committed this act.

          BTW, you will hear about Amy more in the future. We will work to expose her situation and help her get Tyler back.

        • Knut, stop it. We are not listening anyway. I have heard your opinion about Marianne few times, you should pay her some respect. I am not going to change my opinion about her just because you repeat the same 2,3,4 times. Concentrate on something else, how is it about the separation anxiety again? Should we ask the children, how did they feel? I can tell you that here on Dutch TV was a teenager who was unfairly taken from her family. She said it felt like kidnapping. She did not understand it and it took her a long time to get over the trauma. I wonder about all these children how do they cope with it.

        • Knut, after reading what you wrote, 1Cor 1:27-28 came to my mind, and you could have hardly compliment this professor more.

  6. Oops, just realized you were commenting on Delight’s blog. This would have been your warm welcome if you had come directly to me.

    This is good though. Now a larger audience will see your comments.

  7. Well, if you are like most of us in America, you’ll be clocking out in 1/2 hour or so, Knut. I am surprised at two things.

    First, I thought you would correct me. There is nothing more important than Christian behavior and I would equate it with what has been done by the person who wrote this piece.

    Second, you have let another day pass without responding to the question I have asked earlier. Yes, you have avoided the question by telling some sort of history lesson.

    My question is about the reality of Today’s Norway. I will ask it again:

    What about the Mothers’ Homes, Knut, the ones discussed in this post?

    You have three options with variation if you answer with words. You can deny they exist and that this account is false, or you can admit that it is true, or you can take some sort of middle course.

    There is a fourth option, that you don’t answer at all. You are quiet because it is true. You may be quiet because it is false meaning all of a sudden your zeal for your employer is gone. If there is some sort of wiggly middle ground, kind of like jello with no backbone, it is not written either.

    Silence means that you either can’t respond or you won’t respond. Maybe you took the last half of the day off and went fishing. With a damning story like this out there you don’t answer it?

    This story will be here, Knut whenever you wish to comment on it. I am learning to be patient with you in spite of yourself.

    As for Christian behavior, I am concerned for you. You are a lost soul. At the same time, I am also concerned for all of those families who have been harmed, some in one of the cruelest ways possible, by losing their children to your employer.

    I know I will be judged one day for my behavior. It is only the grace given to me through the death of Jesus. He paid for my sin debt. I still sin daily but I don’t steal children from loving parents. Also, I know I need God’s forgiveness so I ask him for His power to do better. I will be judged. I am not afraid. My debt has been paid by the Creator of the universe. God will be the judge of my Christian behavior, Knut. You will not have any say in the matter.

    • I must add, Knut, that though I am becoming more patient with you, it is getting harder each day to be patient with a “system of help” that ruins peoples lives.

  8. This story fits in with many other stories told by parents who have been forced into those homes for mothers. A french woman i met recently, called what is happening there for Lebensborn. The CPS worker Knut Nygaard silence is very interesting. The cruelty described in this story, can never be followed by silence, unless you accept the cruelty!

  9.   
    I don’t quite know under which DiT article this comment might fit best, but I elect to put it here because of the “and FALL (?)” of Barnevernet in this article’s title:

    There is a long “opinion” article in Aftenposten today (a rare event: something on the CPS-critical side in Aftenposten) written by a man who grew up in Barnevernet’s institutions and now works for them himself. He writes about all the force and violence used against the inmates every day, about the hatred it creates, about how he has done it himself but never will again.

    “Hvem definerer om tvang oppleves som omsorg eller overgrep?” (Who defines whether coercion is experienced as care or abuse?)

    “Så fikk jeg jobb i barnevernet. Hver dag gjennom seks år brukte vi unødig tvang.
    Visst måtte tvang dokumenteres, men det var enkelt. «Dokumentasjon» var å hevde at vi «beskytter pasienten, personalet eller inventar».
    Jeg lærte at det er den ansattes opplevelse som gjelder.”
    (Then I got a job in Barnevernet. Every day through six years we used unnecessary force / coercion.
       Certainly force had to be documented, but it was easy. “Documentation” was to claim that we “are protecting, the patient, the personnel or the furniture”.
       I learned that the employee’s experience is what counts.)

    “Når ungdommen korrekt kalte oss «maktsjuke», tok vi ukepenger fra dem. Vi tok ytringsfriheten deres og kalte det «fagfundert».”
    (When the youths correctly called us “power-sick”, we took their weekly allowance away from them. We took their freedom of speech and called it “based on professional knowledge”.)

    “Jeg jobber fortsatt i «systemet», men aldri mer tvang.”
    (I still work in “the system”, but never more coercion.)

    Marius N. Karlstrøm:
    “Jeg har kjent tvang. Som ansatt i barnevernet har jeg brukt tvang. Aldri mer”
    (I have known coercion. As an employee in Barnevernet I have used coercion. Never more)
    Aftenposten, 14 June 2016
    http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/Jeg-har-kjent-tvang-Som-ansatt-i-barnevernet-har-jeg-brukt-tvang-Aldri-mer–Marius-N-Karlstrom-424536b.html

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