IMPORTANT UPDATE: AS OF MAY 31st, 2016, THIS FB POST HAS BEEN DELETED BY THE PM’S PAGE AND SOME COMMENTATORS HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM HER PAGE.
For the first time since the Bodnariu children were confiscated by Barnevernet, prime minister Erna Solberg issued a statement in the form of a comment on her FB page. The comment is authentic since it contains the blue check mark issued by FB to personalities who have authenticated their high profile official FB accounts. She wrote in response to Bodnariu supporter Monika David:
“This is an ongoing police investegation on violence against children.”
It turns out that the prime minister got a lot more attention with her comment than she bargained for…
Hundreds of FB users have descended on the post with hundreds of comments and reactions explaining the ignorant and callous nature of the statement.
I left this comment:
Now we know a few things
- The PM is clearly aware of the Bodnariu case and the international uprising against her country
- The PM is watching the case
- The PM unfortunately has been fed CPS propaganda that this is a police issue. She seems to be uninformed that criminal action has not been taken in this case, in fact only care orders and county board hearing were pursued.
Erna Solberg needs to look at the details of this case to see why the world is protesting. In fact, after the fury of comments on Monika’s post, Solberg may have already looked deeper into the case, and has already seen the red flags and irregularities. One would hope.
Now it is up to the county commission who will review the case next week.
The PM is watching.
The world is watching.
God is watching.
“Let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever flowing stream” Amos 5:24
Delight in Truth 
I think this is fake until activist Monica David can show us a context where this fit in. Where is the context that show us that the “comment” has something to do with the B.’s? This can be taken from ?? or ??
To mr. Prunean I answered: If you read the comments on your blog, Mr. Prunean,you already have the answer to this – the hearing in March was about further or not placement according to the use of the emergency given by the use of the child welfare act § 4-6, 2. junction. The baby was not considered to be in a further emergency situation. The four others ?? – they are not home. The hearing starting on Monday is for longtime placement or not according to § 4-12 a and maybe c or d most possible for all five children. The CPS will in this hearing go deeper and broader than just violence – the whole care situation – routines and rules a.s,o,
The B.’s are now awake and around 09.00 the hearing start. There is nothing in the News about this case – the case event in Bergen and Norway is the start of a murder case – The Monica case – the murder of a 8 year old girl most possibly done by the stepfather – the whole Family is from Poland. This case raise much critisism against the police – they concluded years ago that the girl comitted suicide. The police has since taken all actions where children are involved With major seriousness.
Knut writes;
“The CPS will in this hearing go deeper and broader than just violence – the whole care situation – routines and rules a.s,o,”
Why didn`t the Norwegian CPS look into the family`s routines and rules from the very beginning ?Barnevernet say that they only confiscate children as a last resort. There must be a reason for that. I do not know what reason Barnevernet gives. But the reasons I can think of is that it traumatizes both children and parents. It is also unjust to separate children from parents without first looking into the case.
Immediately after the Bodnariu children were taken away from their parents, they were taken through extensive physical and mental examinations. It was professionally proven that all 5 children had not been suffering any physical or mental abuse. In my opinion, Barnevernet should, based on this acknowledgment, have brought the children back to their parents in an effort not to further traumatize the family.Immediately after, they should have looked into the family`s care situation to see whether they needed help.
Barnevernet keeps stressing that they always strive to confiscate children only as a last resort. But why then does the Bodnariu case and so many other cases prove otherwise? Why is there such a discrepancy between what they say and what they do?
Must be because the Naustdal CPS think the situation for the children is so serious that help measures won’t do the job. This seems to be a radical point of view that is not how most CPS Offices would have concluded. This case has gone from emergency to an investigation that has concluded With longtime placement – where? – I don’t know. I think the B. organization knows all the facts about the case – also – the one in the “comment” from ES – which I think is fake – when did the police finish their investigation?
This is truly a mystery when one considers the fact that physical and mental examinations proved that the children were fine and not in any sort of immediate danger. What could then be so serious that no helping measures would be able to solve?
I don’t know, but if you watch “Debatten” you hear the Council Man in Naustdal stress the point that the CPS in Naustdal listen to what children tell. I think the CPS have listen and done their considerations and not listened to the voices – I do hope they have showed their feelings and said out load and Clear – that the won’t to og home to their parents. I don’t understand this case – why it’s not settled months ago – shouldn’t be hard for lawyers to stop this Naustdal way of doing Things – when – as you say – longtime placement is the last resort.
I do not think the comment from the Prime Minister is fake. She didn’t say much. I guess she was trying to slow down all the comments about the Bodnariu case but instead she did the opposite.
Anyway, this whole case is touching me extremely much.It hurts! and I know it doesn’t hurt only me but thousand uopn thousands all over the world! We don’t shout out about the Bodnariu case and several other cases to be naughty. It is rather something which stirs us deep within.
As a Christian, it stirs me not only to fight but to pray. It really also tests my faith. Do I trust the Lord? So often I start doubting like a wave at sea, and I know that it is wrong . I know that He has got the whole world in His hands! He calls us to cry to Him for help. Oh, how dependent we are on Him. Oh, how I cry out to the Lord for help!
Today, as we cry out from every corner and to the end of the earth, please Lord come to the Bodnariu family’s delivery now! You, oh Lord, are our only hope! We pray in Jesus name, amen.
I hope that the children are to be summoned to the court and then they can tell there as well. According to the law children should be heard before all decisions made related them — County Board’s and District Court’s decision is not exempt I guess?
The family’s blog reported that the children jump into the arms of parents at visitation timeframe, a child told about being kidnapped from the parents…
One of the issue seems to be that Barnevernet is isolating children from the world, even from District Court??? In case of all parents vs. Barnevernet cases became famous I haven’t read that the children were allowed to appear before the court on an open hearing. In worst case — alleged serious violance — don’t let the parents to be present but let the parents’ attorney ask questions.
That could help transparency about “children” being heard a lot!
It is not a fake. You are wrong as usual, Knut. Your guessing game is not very successful. Poor children in your jurisdiction.
Norwegian Prime Ministers Erna Solberg is absolutely right and her comment is correct . It’s up to Police investigation not Facebook opinions.
I am big supporter of Prime Minister Erna Solberg and Norwegian Government.
Norway keep up good work protecting children.
Regards
Dorota
The concern for all of us is to protect children. I am convinced that the only way the Bodnariu children can be protected is to give them back to their parents and let them be united with their siblings!
Confiscating children for trivial reasons does not automatically imply that Norway government protects the children. It’s rather the other way around.
As far as I remember, presumption of innocence was recognized in Norway as well.
Am I wrong?
Is there a police investigation, or is there a binding verdict after all legal remedies exhausted?
A police investigation in itself cab become a tricky pretense.
These days the open hearings are going on in courts on the emergency care orders, so the question is what evidence Child Welfare has? According to lawyers who have seen the documents a month ago: not too much…
An ongoing police investigation in itself is not evidence at all.
Dorota, were you a frightened child once…? Even on one isolated situation like being kept in hospital? Can you feel what a child feels when, on her declarations much exagerated, her parents are punished and she loses her home and siblings and is forced to adapt to an indifferent new background without LOVE?
Do you have children? Would you imagine yourself, as one “guilty” of being of no Norwegian descent, being deprived of a child you bore for nine months, fed, cared…?
You defend a general idea, and a stupid one: Norway knows best, Norway protects children. Norway is not a general idea, it is a complex reality, and in it live, as everywhere on this planet, good and not so good people. Welcome to the real world!
Dorota,
Your comment presents us with more than one possibility.
1) You are brainwashed.
2) You are evil.
There are many possibilities for to explain these two possibilities. As #1 speaks for itself, I will focus on possibilities for #2.
2a) You are an average Norwegian citizen who knows what is going on but denies it in his/her heart. The motivation could be many. Example: You love your country and you do not want the world to think of it as a bad place. This is more important to you than the lives of families.
2b) You work for the Barnevernet, you know what is going on, but you don’t want to lose your job.
2c) You work for Prime Minister Erna Solberg and it is your job to cover up her evil doings.
These are only 3 of the many variations of the possibilities of statement 2.
Of the 2 possibilities I have mentioned here, I would prefer it to be #1, Darota. I would rather you be brainwashed than evil.
Dorota it is clear to me an d most likely the rest of the world that you bought into this “best interest lie”. How could you be so cold and unfeeling to the point where you excuse this grotesque miscarriage of error with a small phrase?
To you due process says nothing? Dialogue with the parents before taking the children in such a hawkish manner did not exist. There were no incriminating marks on their bodies.
Why does it take so long to make a decision if it is for the good of the children?
You want to know what i think Dorota? You hate Christians who bring their children up according to the biblical model and want to take away that right. I think that it is the same in the case of Nautdstal cps group. They are also haters. Delaying hoping that the world forgets about it and gets tired.
This is your mistake because blood is thicker than water and children are not toys to be forgotten. You most likely are not a mother so as to gauge the amount of pain felt in such situations. Your other mistake is that you are forgetting forgetteing that that God is watching. This is the most important detail. Always remember this.
yes dorota ! investigations must continue ! because there is much violence commited ! namely by barnevernet, I have a list of human rights that have been violated against this family by barnevernet, you can make a list. http://www.bodnariufamily.com. greets from belgium.
Dorota,
I understand why Russian and Chinese governments would hire people for propaganda on Internet. However, it seems quite desperate for a democratic government to refer to such doubtful practices, doesn’t it?
The case is simple: there is no evidence of abuse against children in Bodnariu family (and only God knows in how many other families separated by Barnevernet in Norway). The only POTENTIAL “evidence” could be children’s declarations taken after long hours of interrogation and based on leading questions.
We already know that when Barnevernet want something, they will get it, won’t they?
Yes, it is just as sad as ironic that Norway causes irremediably emotional pain to children in the name of “children’s best interest” principle.
Dear Dorota.
You are a big supporter of the Prime minister and the Government of Norway.
It is a fact, that your Government is not controlling the department of family and children and some people working for this department are destroying normal families in your country. We all over the world have been protesting for months against human rights violation in Norway. Where have you been all this time?
You have listen to your government and believe their lies.Their incompetence is giving Norway a very bad image around the world.
Do you know that Solveig Horne in her past training and profession used to butcher animals? Now she has taken an important role in the country but there are some of her employees which are not listening to the guidelines which she has set for this department.
She is an incompetent and has brought all this shame upon Norway by allowing the Bodnariu Family to go through this nightmare and many other families in Norway.
By supporting their actions you are just making a longer list of shame to your country.
Go away state scum!
right, hildi
Fake? You have gone the extra mile for them, Knut.
If that’s the real ES I’m amazed. Why should she? It’s Sunday – no one expects the PM to answer an American activist in an ongoing CPS case in Norway in the moment before the dinner is on the table. I think she would – if this should be real – have come better out of it with changing police with CPS. What do the B. organization say about the police investigation? My guess is that it was over months ago.
She answered on Saturday 4:31 PM Oslo time (9:31 AM US time). And why wouldn’t she answer? We had tens of thousands of people protesting all over the world and more than 64000 people signed the online petition.
Today ES like the B’s were here in Bergen. In these sorroundings – the city with the seven mountains – on the other side of the sea the B’s are in the CC and 15 meter away the Monica murder case is taken place – in Tingretten for Nord-Hordaland.
http://www.ba.no/positive-nyheter/nyheter/okonomi-og-naringsliv/disse-tre-sporsmalene-om-havet-kunne-ikke-erna-svare-pa/s/5-8-361294
The CC is in the building which is marked and Tingretten is in the building with the black roof in front.
https://www.1881.no/offentlig-forvaltning/offentlig-forvaltning-hordaland/offentlig-forvaltning-bergen/fylkesnemnda-for-barnevern-og-sosiale-saker-i-hordaland-og-sogn-og-fjordane_100441507S1/
I really doubt the PM would answer you on facebook, when all others are denied access trying to take contact with her office. Maybe we have a doppelganger? I doubt the PM is flattered by her foreign supporters – 64000 is not much to shout “Hurra” for …
God works in mysterious ways, Knut.
Why would you call Erna Solberg’s facebook page ‘fake’ (which must be the implication if the comment is fake)? That said, as with all top politicians, such things are mostly run by underlings and I would suspect that it was an aide that made the comment.
I would be surprised a prime minister maintaining a facebook page solely personally.
Could be a fake or also could be a team member on her behalf.
This is the official FB of the PM
If it is fake, it means that FB has purposefully done this which means that FB is a Bodnariu supporter. That would help us a bit if true. However, I think it’s the real deal, Knut. Either way, it’s ok by me.
I don’t think FB would want a lawsuit from the PM, However.
Except, maybe they want the attention so they can inform the world about the Norwegian problem.
Nah, that would be too easy.
If the posting was on Erna Solberg’s facebook page, and you people who are familiar with facebook say that it bears stamps of authenticity, then that is probably so.
I can add something which points in the same direction:
Some time ago somebody criticised Solberg for some spelling mistakes in something she had written on social media, saying that surely she should get her secretaries who took care of such postings to write correctly. She answered:
– I am a dyslectic, and I write myself.
This reached newspapers and/or tv, and she said that obviously, she could not respond to everything, and could not be on the internet all that often, but that she made a point of trying to respond to some of the messages written to her, and that she wanted to do it personally, on principle. She said that she had struggled at school because of her dyslexia, was not ashamed of it (of course there is no reason to be), and did not want to spend too much time trying to correct it or to have others correct it for her.
So it is not unlikely, not in this general perspective either, that Erna Solberg has written that remark about the Bodnariu case herself. – That she unfortunately takes her information about Barnevernet from the advisers in the political and the “expert” fields that actually run BV and defend it, is another matter; she does unfortunately not open her eyes and ears on that score – her party Høyre (the Conservative Party) never has been interested in finding out that BV does anything else than “bringing criminal and unruly people to order” – bourgeois order.
“activist Monica David”…Knut she is no more active than you are. Do you not believe that Christians are to be active? God commands it.
Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.–Isaiah
Dear Mr Nygaard,
You must be a bright person. You discuss many issues on Facebook, especially the one about the children’s safety in Norway. It is common sense and not necessarily a certain religion, common sense and nature which make us feel that children belong to their parents, their natural parents. Everyone, but then everyone agrees that when children are exposed to violence, they must be removed from that place. This is a fact. In Botnariu’ s case, the only violence admited by the parents was spanking. How and why were the children taken away? And what kind of people work on the case, to further complicate the case, instead of helping these parents by giving them advice how to do a better job at parenting? They were willing to cooperate. But instead of help from the well educated people of Barnevernet, they encountered a lack of cooperation! How can they justify their acts?
This is beyond my capacity to understand their acts and reasons and it is truly sad.
Mine too. Your comment is much alike my opinion done from what I have read about this case. If the children are to be reunited and go home with guidance and maybe other help measures I do hope that the Naustdal CPS understand that they are not the right ones to have any further contact with this family. Maybe this case will be the dooropener for a quick change to a cooperate CPS with Gaular and Førde municipalities.
Monika case is not from Poland. Please people, dont spread false info
I have not read this case in detail, but I see that Litauen must be the right address.
http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Monikas-mor-om-forholdet-til-tiltalte—Som-a-ha-en-mark-innvendig-som-sp
Try again
https://www.nrk.no/norge/monikas-mor_-_-han-begynte-a-grate-da-jeg-spurte-om-truslene-1.12979737
I don’t think anyone looks at your links anymore, Knut.
They are much more informative than your thumbs up and down comments saying nothing, Chris. You’re a good Mrs. M diciple.
I haven’t pressed a thumbs up or down button once here yet that I’m aware of, Knut.
Also I could never be a disciple of Marianne, as she is not the Master. The Master is the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Thumbs up!
Knut cannot even spell disciple, Chris.
For some reason this comment just came through today, cecilie. It is July 9th.
There are times I think his misspelled words are on purpose as his computer must have spell check. Or maybe Knut is just lazy. But he works all hours; he is here the weekdays and the weekends, so maybe he is not lazy.
One thing we know about Knut for sure: he supports a cruel organization that has no problem splitting up loving families for minuscule reasons.
Why would I read anything you link to Knut as it is impossible to tell when you are lying or not. I know you have lied more than once.
Yeah, you know the most and are the perfect activist for a movement gospel you not know the truth behind.
Why state the obvious, Knut, we disagree.
Dear Knut,
Your country is clearly a xenophobic country. Remember what ABBA singer Anni-Frid Lyngstad got from her “compatriots”. But in the Bodnariu case and others like it, it is much worse: it is CORRUPTION. People should know that each “Foster family” receives 50.000 Euros per year for one KIDNAPPED child and the bureaucrats of Barnevernet receive also a lot of money for each child they KIDNAP to transform him/her into a norwegian ROBOT that will have serious psychological problems including suicidal behavior.
As far as I understand some comments on other forums there are also some private companies acting as 3rd party middlemen try to match potential foster parents with children to be taken into foster homes. Some forum commenters tell this could be now a big industry with big money in it.
What I have seen — in many cases — suggests that everyone seem to follow the interests of these middlemen blindly? Risk of corruption?
These middlemen could be of course interested in taking out children from good families, to make their clients happy, and to increase volume in order to get more commission?
Yes, Jasper. Some of these companies offer two types of services themselves:
They supply psychologists or other experts to Barnevern offices in “need” of such experte, to assess whether a child needs to be removed from its family and write scientific-sounding reports saying that the child needs it.
They also run institutions where foster children can be placed. Placement at such institutions can cost about 500 Euros per day. It is paid by our tax money, of course.
Further comments should be unnecessary.
So basically these companies are supervising each other. How funny.
I would argue they are to be considered as one big trust and all their experts are to be considered biased.
a small correction: how tradicomedic.
They are not even supervising each other. A municipality may hire a company to first assess whether a child should be taken from its family, the company’s expert comes up with a report saying yes, then the SAME company has institution places to offer the municipality.
Reblogged this on Dumnezeu e în control.
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Sorry Dorota, the CPS children in Norway has made obvious mistakes and needs to be accountable for. Children are not products or documents to deal with in burocracy and we will keep going on until they come back to their family. And yes, I am a Christian.
Mr Nygaard: “Must be because the Naustdal CPS think the situation for the children is so serious that help measures won’t do the job. This seems to be a radical point of view that is not how most CPS Offices would have concluded.”
….. “I don’t understand this case – why it’s not settled months ago – shouldn’t be hard for lawyers to stop this Naustdal way of doing Things – when – as you say – longtime placement is the last resort.”
I see Mr Nygaard is back with his usual kind of postings, including some about all other sorts of happenings in Norway, including the Monica case now starting in Bergen, which is unrelated to Barnevernet and therefore one more thing to take attention away from what Barnevernet does.
Doesn’t he understand the case? It is not true that most Barnevern offices would not have acted in the way that Naustdal has done. On the contrary, there are, and have through many years, been plenty of quite atrocious Barnevern actions all over Bergen, where Mr Nygaard works, plenty like variations or just like the Bodnariu case.
It is not true that it is a question of Naustdal being too small and large Barnevern offices being more competent. The bigger the office, the more staff to back each other up doing exactly the kind of thing they have done in Naustdal, the staff’s private lives being better protected by their not living in a small, local and transparent district. That is the primary reason why Norwegian Barnevern workers, with Mrs Solberg’s government backing them, want to unite several small Barnevern districts into larger ones. It is by no means equally unpleasant to take children when you can do it much farther away from where you are living.
Mr Nygaards wrote some time back here on DiT that he had conferred with colleagues at his own office about the Bodnariu case. The picture that emerges from the sum of his postings is that he – and possibly other Barnevern workers – are eager to get citizens of other countries become friends with Norwegian Barnevern workers and the whole set-up in Norway, trust them and discard and forget about protests. That is the say Barnevernet does it in Norway and he tries the same sort of tactic with foreign nations. He understands that this is difficult to achieve with the Bodnariu case in people’s minds, so he wants to distance the rest of Norwegian Barnevern from Naustdal, and heroically writes an open letter to Naustdal municipality recommending them to withdraw the Bodnariu case. I am more than sure that American readers on DiT understand what is meant by “selling Naustdal Barnevern and municipality down the river”.
It really gives Norwegian Barnevern handy possibilities. If the Bodnarius get all their children back, then they can say, “That just proves that Naustdal Barnevern was the odd man out, quite unlike the rest of us.” If the Bodnarius lose and international fury becomes overwhelming, they can say either the same thing, or they can say “Naustdal Barnevern was able to prove that the children were seriously abused, and we knew all along that the Norwegian system is dependable and only takes children in very serious cases and as the last resort”.
Notice that all the same time Mr Nygaard takes care to keep the door open to “serious maltreatment of the children, being known to Barnevernet and the police in Naustdal, and which all these “activists” and foreign protesters do not have any insight into”. That Barnevernet is battening down the hatches seems the most likely explanation to me.
I think the reader begin to understand the mindset of this out of date language professor long time ago retired. She can’t go into a single case like I daily can do, but I can’t share my knowledge with you. Here we are with the truth about the ongoing storytelling of CPS work – you can tell whatever story you want and nobody can know if this is near to the truth or what.
No it’s up to the CC to handle the longtime perspectives given by the Naustdal CPS. If the CC give Naustdal the thumb up for their work and the green light they have taken parental violence and Christian upbringing to a level that give us other a lot of cases coming up for longtime placement. A positive Naustdal handling in the CC should be a signal of the level we others should take into our case considerations. If we are the wrongdoers I wonder if we will have fosterhomes enough for the coming cases. If help measures are just in the way we take that signal to – we can all jump over – a lot of work and time being spared.
Do you still seriously think you can motivate anyone in your direction, Knut?
If there are lots of weeds, there could be lots of wheat as well — and vice versa.
I am convinced many of the Barnevernet staff are working hard to protect children — and keen to correct errors.
Unfortunately there are/wee lots of cases calling international attention in a short period, plus there is the open letter from last summer by Gro Hillestad Thune, Thea Totland, Nina Witoszek, Elvis Nwosu and Einar C. Salvesen.
That’s why I am convinced there are not so few weeds either — or at least some system-level failure.
Due to Knut’s recent letter I started to think about that the training could be unbalanced, pushing on quick and bold measures. I admit, that in general helping child welfare staff to make quick and bold decisions is recommendable… with the comment that the quicker child welfare reacts the better are the chances to prevent the need of emergency measures.
I could imagine unexperienced staff after some unbalanced training to panic and go for emergency care orders just do to their own panic.
(This still not explain some crazy reasons like too thin or thick bread slices)
The leadership’s reaction (including Ministry) is disappointing and appalling — at least percieved from outside. Plenty of time have already gone and still at the start of preparations for an investigetaion, appointing the panel which have been supervising before… sounds like trying to deny there were any issues still.
“A positive Naustdal handling in the CC should be a signal of the level we others should take into our case considerations. If we are the wrongdoers I wonder if we will have fosterhomes enough for the coming cases”. Knut, what do you think it would happen in case Naustdal BV people will be found were the wrongdoers? Obviously they confiscated way more children than any BV offices according to the statistics you presented.
“The bigger the office, the more staff to back each other up doing exactly the kind of thing they have done in Naustdal, the staff’s private lives being better protected by their not living in a small, local and transparent district.”
You continue to bewilder your opponent with the truth, Marianne. I can see why his only possible response is to try and discredit you. It is like watching David vs. Goliath. The big fella never had a chance.
Thank you, Chris. It warms one when somebody sees a point!
Did i ever bother you with this:
“The hidden motive for wanting municipality mergers and larger child protection units”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page249/page249.html
By the way, here’s a funny one: The mayor says that merging with several other municipalities will create more jobs:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37437#p37437
(my translation): “Mayor Andre Møller defended the suggestion by pointing to the Barnevern service as an example in which cooperation has led to more jobs over time.
– There were seven positions in Barnevern in the five municipalities before we started with “host municipalities”. Today we have the double number of positions in the five municipalities taken together. This, I think, we can carry over to other sectors, like agriculture, health and school. There is a much greater need for employees in these sectors, but there are not big enough expert milieus capable of lifting forward the political issues, and that is what we need. We are going to increase, not decrease, Møller said.”
Seems like this mayor is an enthusiast for creating jobs in the public sector, and without looking into it takes for granted that such employees always do useful work.
It should be noted that we hear from Vega, where he is, from time to time: They have at least over some 10 years had unusually many take-overs of children by Barnevernet, apparently! A journalist who was a bit interested, wondered, I remember, what there was about Vega that made it such a difficult place for children growing up, or that drew so many incompetent, abusive parents. It did not occur to him that what Vega had, was perhaps a hyperactive Barnevern. Perhaps it’s the same people in Barnevernet still, sharing out their services between 5 municipalities.
You’re welcome, Marianne.
I’ve read both posts and none of it seems unusual for the BV. It is easy to think of motives of these new municipality mergers but I’m sure I can’t think of them all so I’ll be back to click on these links tomorrow. I’m satisfied with what has been done today and should get some rest.
“We are going to increase, not decrease..”
It is a brief summary of their plan it seems.
I really don’t like to stereotype, but here it is:
The people of Norway are like people in other nations. The actions of an organization called Barnevernet, located in Norway, is unlike the vast majority of organizations in the free world. Lying has become a habit of a large part of the world’s population. Most don’t use lies to break up biological families. The Barnevernet has had years to perfect strategies to dismantle blood kin. Given autonomy by the nation’s politicians, the Barnevernet may be the most corrupt government sponsored organization on the planet in the free world. Without oversight, those in power feel invincible and are better at making the most important judgments than any others in the entire world. This is why worldwide protests have been unsuccessful to make a difference in the “system” to this point. I have met some of the bravest people that I have ever known in Norway. They certainly have no part in the Barnevernet. There is light and there is darkness in the Nordic countries. I prefer to focus on the light but am forced to look into the darkness. It is something that you, Marianne, have been doing for years. I know that you have probably felt alone during much of that time. You have been patient. Now there are others looking into the darkness in spite of its unpleasantness. Maybe those who have joined you can be of some assistance.
My fondest regards,
Chris Reimers
How many years has mrs.Skaanland produced her propaganda? 5-10-15-20 years?
Has it worked? No-,i do not think so!!! Only for Chris.
Look back at all she has been writing for years and years. Google her. If she was a person you all would have been taken seriosly-like all the other senators and pastors and people you appreciate etc.-all over the world.-why no headlines with her name the past years or decades?Especially in Norway?! Why should anyone trust her when all she does is to stay at home 24 hours a day making up stories. Can she make novels,please! I will be the first one to by it!
Why do you all trust strangers and what they are feeding your brain?
Topsy, God said all things under the sun have their time.Marianne just like a seed planted in the ground have done for many years what was in her means and power.Now the seed have sprung up and the power of life in that seed can be seen from the ends of the earth.
God have allways had his people who did not compromised and kept faithfull to the truth.
You Topsy did not proffe wordy to be listen to not even by a dog.
Trust is gained and can not be demended.
You Topsy whoever you are are demanding we should listen to you.
You have not done even the first step in thst direction.
Marianne have been like an open book and belive me we have gone to school to.
Take it easy, Topsy. I have seen what Barnevernet does to good people by doing my own independent research.
Professor Skanland’s work CONFIRMS my research. I have talked to victims extensively, and just because Marianne is not in the news in Norway it is because she prefers to stay out of the media, as the media in Norway has a history of twisting one’s message.
BTW, she is not a stranger, she is a friend.
Topsy,
You have identified a reason that I like Marianne so well. Yes, she has had an influence on me, a good one. Why is she not famous? It is because she has been swimming upstream all of the years you speak of. In spite of being around all of the psychbabble as she refers to it, she has not succumbed to it like the vast majority of your “experts.” That makes her admirable in my eyes.
On top of that, I have “talked” to many others who back up the things she says here. If it were only Marianne who was saying these things, she would surely be questioned. We have at least two generations now that have experienced the “system” you are defending and many have talked about it. Are any of the kids better off for being in BV care? Yes, those whose families were really abusing their kids. But it is obvious that many are taken to be taken and we can only guess the motivation.
There is so much evidence, beyond what Marianne states, that biological families in Norway have been experiencing undue interference in their lives, that many biographies could be written.
What is so nice about Marianne is that she knows the supposed “psychology” behind decisions made by the BV. The rest of us can identify it purely by common sense. The BV makes the tallest mountains out of ant hills and it is obvious to anyone with a normal IQ. No genius needed here.
You mention the pastors of the last 20 years or so. My opinion: If they, or let’s just say the majority, had been preaching the Word of God, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Sin would be a reality and lying and stealing would be wrong. Good Bible preaching pastors have become a difficult thing to find in our times and it appears that there aren’t many in Norway. Half of the membership of the state church when asked say they are not Christians. What?
Do you also claim to be a Christian as Knut has? If so, have you ever heard the golden rule? It is the reason that most people are protesting your CPS. There are still enough people who believe in that rule that the horror stories coming out of your country are reasons to march in the streets.
Reblogged this on agnus dei – english + romanian blog and commented:
May God move the hearts and minds of the county commission!
Reblogged this on Ropenti.
The statement (“This is an ongoing police investigation on violence against children”) shows that either
1) The Prime Minister of Norway is poorly informed about the present state of the case or
2) The Prime Minister of Norway is pushing propaganda to defame the Bodnariu family and deflect criticism away from the politicians responsible for this current system of Barnevernet.
Great observation, Mike.
I wish it was number 1 but I’m afraid it’s number 2.
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Knut Nygard – child care is essential knowledge for work with children. I agree that the helping children is to understand the children needs, development, and support.
with my learnign of the issue of child care I went thorough the stage from 0 to asking University knowledge from around the world.
So my questions are simple:
Do you as barnevern’s social worker recognise the Separation Anxiety Disorder in children ? If so can we have a constructive discusion about it?
Do you as a child care worker see the need for changes in Barnevernet ?
Could You answer to these 2 questions ?
My Nygaard does not reply to thoughtful intelligent questions. However he is quick to rudely put down Dr. Skanland every chance he gets. Also puzzling to me is the way he flip flops his opinions.
Very good points, Stefan. I also asked his opinion about the following study:
“Foster Care vs. Keeping Families Together”
Click to access evidence.pdf
I don’t recall him answering my question even though he jumped immediately to comment on my article in which I recommended the above study.
AS far as I’m concerned Norway is paradise for homosexuals, lesbians, pedophiles and deviants. Very little room if any for normal people.
I don’t care if the Bodnarius spanked or not their kids. THAT IS NORMAL. Only in fascist Norway do they tell you what you can and cannot do in your own home.
Who the hell does the Norwegian government think they are???
They would NEVER dare touch a Muslim family because they’d be squashed in an instant by the Muslim community. Instead these sickos kidnap Christian families in the name of their lawlessness. Here’s some food for thought: http://www.pravdareport.com/society/stories/09-08-2012/121869-norway_paedophiles_lawyers-0/
Spanking is not normal in Norway – it’s forbidden by Law. That’s the situation for most countries in the world. If you don’t want contact With the CPS and the police – don’t spank Your children. It’s that easy. No – you can’t use violence and abuse Your children neither ouside nor inside the Family premisses. There is the same Law for all inhabitants in Norway – muslims too. Normal People don’t need to spank their children – they are clever enough to themselves find other ways to dicipline their child – others need some help on the way.
Let’s say that spanking is traumatic to children.
We need to define what spanking is. If I go to the police and say that some guy beat me, then I must go to the doctor and obtain a document to prove that I have some bruises, scratches, something. They won’t even talk to me me otherwise.
But the problem is that Barnevernet/CPS doesn’t have the child’s best interest in mind. They don’t offer counseling for the family, financial support, not even some legal information about spanking, no warnings, nothing.
First of all, not every light touch could be qualified as spanking. Even animals correct their cubs. No one in their sane mind would take away puppies because their mother bit them. It doesn’t mean that we should use violence, just that taking children away is traumatic and illogical.
The idea is to have the child’s best interest in mind, what the child wants.
Does he/she want to be separated from the family ?
Would you want to be separated from your parents/brothers/sisters because you got spanked ?
Would you like to be forbidden to talk to any biological relative or friend because you got spanked ?
Why don’t we find ways to prevent spanking ? Why don’t we listen to what the children have to say ?
The money should not go into adoptive families, but in counseling, help for poor families, for parents that were themselves abused, to break the cycle of violence.
Some children are hyperactive and stubborn, they can even get themselves in danger, parents might spank them, don’t punish the children for being spanked.
You can forget a spanking. Can you forget being kidnapped from your family and friends ?
Do we want to create another Anders Breivik ?
Very wise words, Andrei!I totally agree with you!
There is a huge difference between mild spanking and real violence. It is so ridiculous to take children away from parents solely on the basis of mild spanking! I mean taking away children from their families and their whole environment suddenly, without warning, just like that, is so brutal and surely much, much, much worse and more harmful than a few mild spankings leaving no visable marks !!!! I cannot understand Barnevernet`s thinking in doing so. I am myself a Norwegian( though I haven`t lived in Norway the past 25 years), but this is beyond my comprehension! I really feel ashamed for being a Norwegian if this is a Norwegian way of treating children and families! But, hopefully there are just not a handful of other Norwegians who think the way I do. Maybe those who don`t agree with Barnevernet in Norway in this matter are afraid to speak up because it could have some not so good consequences for them.
To me it is like Barnevernet punish children who have been mildly spanked with a prison sentence. It is unbelievable what kind of trauma they are putting children who have wonderful biological families through! Why don`t they help families instead? I don`t understand. Even when I write this, I believe that it must just be a nightmare or I have lost my mind.
I totally agree with you, Andrei. I think you should write an article based on the information provided in your comment. I would “steal” some information from Hildi’s comment too 🙂 You may email me at: octavianaizona(at)gmail(dot)com
I would like to recommend you the speech of Ken Olsen, a wonderful man, whose child (baby Aria) was stolen by Barnevernet a couple of days after she was born:
The speech was delivered in Trondheim on May 28th, 2016.
I listened to some of the speech. I didn’t know Ken had more a Danish than a Norwegian way of speaking. He lived in Denmark because his mother fled from the Norwegian CPS – how he ended up in the Danish CPS a short time after the arrival I don’t understand. Then he stays in Denmark until he in 2003 is sentenced to prison for two years for blackmailing, robbery and threats. After he had done his penalty he was expelled from Denmark for the next ten years.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/danmark/norsk-bandidos-medlem-utvist-fra-danmark/a/71474/
I have not seen the conclusion for the placement of Aria. I like people who seems to be able to a positive change. His past is his past – if there is nothing new attached to him or Vibeke my opinion is that they should be given a possibility to show themselves and the CPS that they are determinded to give Aria what she needs – but in this case too we don’t know all the details.
“how he ended up in the Danish CPS a short time after the arrival I don’t understand”
I will help you to understand, Knut.
Ken’s mother was bullied by CPS workers to the point where she moved to Denmark where she thought she was safer. Fourteen days after the move, she was already out working and trying to pay bills for housing arrangements. The Bornevernet, came and took Ken, without telling his mother. If you want more details, I have them as I have become friends with a person whose life has been “changed” by CPS “services” in Nordic countries.
If you want to know the rest of the story, read my speech, mostly Ken’s words, given to a small group of local pastors about a month or so ago.
It is hard not to be angry as I write this. I can’t imagine what this man went through as a child. His story is compelling.
Knut, there might be the same law for everybody but it’s not applied equally. I doubt that you would ever touch a Muslim’s family kid. My friends and neighbors who lived 6 years in Norway told me that Muslims are very influence over there and Barnevernet NEVER takes Muslim’s children. This is a fact. Don’t tell us that Muslims do not indoctrinate their children or they don’t spank them. The trivial reasons used against parents whose children were stoled by the Barnevernet thiefs apply easily to Muslim communities. Nonetheless, Barnevernet is afraid to ever touch Muslim’s kids, regardless what the law says. It’s well known that there are many unwritten laws in Norway. One of them is “Barnevernet does not apply the same rules for Muslims”. Show me at least one case in which Muslim children were confiscated by Barnevernet. Don’t tell me that such cases exist but Muslim community did not react to that.
Your neighbour has just an opinion done out of this persons individual observations. I work in this field and on work today I f.i. looked at a conclusion done years ago where the child welfare act 4-6, 2. junction was used in a family with Muslim children. This is one of the conspiracies that are alive among people who have no reliable information – they listen to whatever negative propaganda an activist or supporter say and some think that this is actually the truth. Of cause the law is used for all inhabitants – none is considered “a holy cow”. This unwritten conspiracy laws told to people living in Norway make no sense and common Norwegians consider you as a bunch of misguided foreigner – as said in the media some hours ago – Vårt land – among some considered a Christian newspaper have an article today about ” The detrimental CPS conspiracy”
http://www.vl.no/meninger/kommentar/den-skadelige-barnevernskonspirasjonen-1.732976
Octavian – this is a link from “Norsk Muslimsk Forbrukerforbund” – The Norwegian Muslim consumer (user) association” – advices and information om Barnevernet – I didn’t find any translation, but both Ms. M and Hildegunn can confirm that this is good advices and information for all inhabitants that are not customed to the CPS.
http://muslimforbruker.no/barn/barnevern/
Cooperate – but – give as little information yourself as possible I think was the key message.
The Islamic council in Norway work hard for muslims to end up with muslims when the longtime placement is the reality – they try to build up a muslim foster home “bank” that may be used if accepted by the legal parties involved as the best solution for the child involved.
http://www.irn.no/barnevern
Only five or six migrant families have applied to be examined for possible duty as a foster home to be used for unknown children. Most migrant families are only interested in the situation that is the reality for someone they know or are related to. This is information given from Bufetat in the county Rogaland
https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/innvandrerbarn-i-fosterhjem-1.11477651
Emergency foster care, whenever not necessary in a democratic society is not normal in the Council of Europe. If you don’t want Strasbourg to make a judgement against you, don’t do that…
Reblogged this on ANA TATAR ANDRAS.
So, the CPS cases that involve Muslim families are very carefully investigated. I doubt that CPS just jump to their doors and confiscate the children without any previous contact with them as they did in Bodnariu’s case.
A child has a name and an adress – we take it from there – the muslim or whatever religious context that is a part of a family is only a matter to considerate if that’s the obvious or possible reason for the harm done to the child or misconduct done by parent(s). That is done as I told you – I saw such an emergency conclusion today – I can’t tell you more. No one has reacted as much and in the way as the supporteractivists in the B.case.
Just imagine, Knut, if you or a close relative or friends would have their children unjustly taken away by Barnevernet. Maybe you wouldn`t let the whole world know. But wouldn`t you have done something to try to get the children back?
Why do you call us supporteractivists, Knut? Would you rather want us to keep quiet and let injustice continue?
No one has reacted for they might have known that the parents were abusive. In B. case we know the family and our community knows that they are good parents, not abusive at all, they are a model family. If BV would touch the kids of a “model family” or from a family known as non-abusive from their community I don’t want to imagine what would happen.
When we open a case we usually don’t know nothing about the family involved. There is seldom any trouble. In this Naustdal case we have a rather rare situation. In the picture in the link below you find the now leader of the CPS in Naustdal with her baby in the front of the picture on the right – on the other side of the table you find Ruth with one of the B’s as a baby. The leader of the CPS and Ruth attended the same class for two years – from 2008 to 2010 – and the shared their class situation and they shared their “mothering”
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/barnevernssaka_-mor-og-barnevernsleiar-gjekk-i-same-klasse-1.12
Try again – hope this link work – Ruth and the CPS leader in Naustdal with their babies
https://gfx.nrk.no/eh3_qVmAYWr1SEYEp4q6kQDjA6niu3w7IBKzn5HPxCxg
This is not surprising, but it is very sad Knut.
So the woman responsible for making the decision to take the Bodnariu children from them, knew Ruth years before. How could anyone, who has seen a mother with her child showing so much love, decide to attempt to severe all biological ties in this family? AND IT WAS THE ENTIRE FAMILY SHE WANTED.
Everyone who knows this family speaks of the love the parents have for the children and how much love the children have for the parents. How anyone, particularly someone who was familiar with the family, decide that she can ruin it by dividing it up in 4 pieces, is beyond my comprehension.
Does this woman think she is God?
The say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, an entire book could be written and probably will be. There may be 10 books written. There is plenty of material.
It’s the B. organization with headquarter that knows all that goes on in this case, but they are not very eager to provide any information to the supporters. It’s usually not diffucult to read how a hearing has gone for the parts involved, but – this is the B,’s case – the family – and we other have as the rest of the world little or no personal need to know all the details. I do hope they have had a good hearing.
In this case, there are pretty strong reasons for declaring the whole procedure null and void, suspend the emergency care and have a repeated procedure in another municipality, due to obvious bias in Naustdal.
I would say, either the whole case should be dropped, or what I wrote above — otherwise the process is anything but a due process.
By the way I read that the court proceedings in the case take place 30th of May to 2nd of June… any news?
I don’t know why it took 4 days… the photo in itself should have been enough evidence for bias — thew whole procedure could have been nullified and a repeated procedure by the neighbouring municipality could be ordered pretty quick… –or, I would say if Barnevernet won, I would advise the Bodnariu family to appeal, based on not only Article 8 (right to family) but also based on Article 6 (right for a fair procedure/trial) of ECHR.
They will deliberate after the case. Who knows how long they will take before any decision is made, Jasper.
You make a very good point in general, however.
So many people know the Bodnariu`s. I even got to know Romanians here in Switzerland who know Ruth and Marius from when they were in Romania. Everyone says the same, that they are a loving and caring couple.
A great video from a debate about Barnevernet;
Is there more of this Hildi, where a second person speaks? It is very good, and he appears to be speaking against the “system.” If these are Norwegians, who is this outspoken man? He seems to understand the truth.
Sorry, Chris , for having taken so long to reply… I found this video posted by somebody on Facebook. I was very happy to discover that Barnevernet is in fact being discussed in Norway. These are Norwegian lay judges. I don`t know the person who is speaking. But it was very good what he said.Here he is criticizing the injustice Barnevernet is performing by acting more as a forcible- than a service body. Someone who has once been in touch with BV will never be finished with BV. If a parent has been in touch with BV as a child, he/ she will have a disadvantage. Parents who ask BV for help are likely to have their children confiscated. Once BV has somebody on their fishing hook, they very likely stay there for the rest of their lives. He gave an example of parents who ask BV for help. Despite good cooperation between parents and BV, they may suddenly force the children away from the parents. This act is not done according to the child`s best but rather because it makes life easier for Barnevernet. They will argue that “if” there is a conflict “some time in the future” , it will be too difficult for them. It is much easier if they just keep the child/ children with Barnevernet… Often Barnevernet will not even have a case. They “invent” a case. If the parents, who already are exhausted, only just once explode or say or act in a way that annoys BV, they can invent a reason for confiscating their child/children.
It is great that this sad truth is coming from experts who know what they are talking about! Nobody can say that they are just a bunch of activists who don`t know what they are talking about… The so called “activists” who criticize Barnevernet, have a good reason for doing so!
It is horrible that Barnevernet do as we are told here! There may be parents who love their children above all else and just need some help to become better parents. Some difficult circumstances like stress, illness, problems, special needs children etc might make life and raising children more demanding and hard to cope with. It is inhumane and an atrocity if Barnevernet in such a case take children forcibly away from their parents instead of giving them the necessary help!
An interesting resolution from last year from Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe:
http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-en.asp?fileid=21737&lang=en
Especially 8.6 and 8.10 seem to be important with respect to Barnevernet.
Hopefully Norway will not decide to stick with implementing one side only (ensuring measures are quick enough) as it is now but will improve on starting reintegration measures immediately and with getting emergency care orders into courts as soon as possible.
First, Hildi, I want to thank you for all of the words you have written on behalf of the families that suffer in Norway. Now that it appears that the Bodnariu children will be reunited with their parents, nothing should change in our efforts. So many have gotten no media attention as this one. Here is a letter that I am sending to the CPS leader:
Ms. Solveig Horne,
I have seen your photo on several websites and blogs. I must be honest. Several months ago, I hadn’t ever seen or heard of you. Now, when I see your face, I think of little children. I think of children who are taken from their parents for the most minor of reasons. I think of Norway’s Barnevernet.
I don’t have to tell you that most of the world disagrees with the policies of the BV. You already know that. You also are aware of the news that the Bodnariu’s will be returned to their family if you do not appeal the decision. I know you already know what you will do. You will probably not appeal and allow the embarrassment of the situation to subside. If you appeal you know the world will be angry.
I, for one. will not go away no matter which decision you make about how the CPS will now treat the Bodnariu family. Will there be an apology sent for keeping children from their parents for months? You have been hoping the masses will go away. You wish them to go nicely back to their homes and have no more demonstrations in the streets.
I will tell you this.
There will be another demonstration in my town. I know because I will organize it. All of the signs but one we have we can reuse because they had the BV name on them and not the Bodnariu name as some of us had foresight. My goal will be to have more people at the next protest in my town than we had in April. I hope to have better media coverage. I will have more time to plan it than I did the previous one. I will pick a date for this protest in the next few months.
“Why am I going to do this?” some may ask. My response will be: “The Bodnariu family was one of thousands and we must not forget those thousands who have been treated just like the Bodnarius. One family has been freed but a system that denies human rights and due process to families continues to operate as if nothing has happened. I cannot be silent.”
This will be my true reply, Ms. Horne. I hope someday that your policies will be changed and that people in Norway can go back to a life where they don’t always have to be concerned about a principal, a neighbor, a teacher, a pastor, a “friend,” or anyone making a statement about a family that starts a process where the children are never able to spend any time with their parents without the intruding eyes and presence of the Barnevernet until they are 18.
Chris Reimers
A very concerned American citizen
I’m not sure when I will send it, but it will be sent. Thank you for sending me this information. As you can see, I understand that my role as an “activist” has not changed regarding this problem.
God’s blessings…
Chris Reimers
Chris: “There will be another demonstration in my town. I know because I will organize it. …”
Bless you, friend!
Nobody must expect that this will continue at fever heat. Steady awareness and spreading of information, and some protests at intervals, and then whatever seems sensible to do when particular cases or issues come up will have an effect in the long run. I feel that not only the Bodnarius but all families done down by Barnevernet in Norway are so fortunate to have had all this help from abroad making this issue known. We will continue, and now we know about each other. Steady does it!
Hmm, I spread your fame in Norway, Chris:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37464#p37464
I think we all got involved in this because it touches us deeply. For me, and for all the others, we just could not keep silent towards the injustice. But you are right, Chris. We must not stop here! Thank you for reminding us to continue to be a voice for all the other families who have had their children so unjustly taken away! You have a compassionate heart, Chris!
Now, first after over half a year of separation,the Bodnariu parents are offered help to become better parents. I ask myself why didn`t that happen from the very beginning? Does Barnevernet think it helps to first tear the family apart? I wonder what all kinds of lies the children have been served as to why they have been separated from their family. I don`t know, but maybe they started doubting their parent`s love for them. Maybe BV even told them that their parents are bad and not loving. This hurts a little child….. Now those wounds need to heal.
I will continue to pray for the Bodnariu family that God will comfort them and heal every wound. May He shower His love upon them and let them bloom and grow together again in His love! And I will also pray for change to come so that no more families have to go through this kind of trauma! Barnevernet should be there to help and not to destroy! Taking a child away from its parents should be the absolute last resort! It should not only be something they say, but also something they do!!!!
“IMPORTANT UPDATE: AS OF MAY 31st, 2016, THIS FB POST HAS BEEN DELETED BY THE PM’S PAGE AND SOME COMMENTATORS HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM HER PAGE.”
Seems it became too difficult for her to handle? Becoming nervous? Only cosy caramel topics on her fb-page?
It was a great conversation too, Marianne. And now it is gone.
All of those people who commented will find out about this and they will tell their friends, who will tell their friends..who will…
She thinks it is hard to handle now?
Marianne, I would say this is significant. Clearly it bothered her, even though the tone of the comments were decent for the most part. (You get some harsh critics among a wide crowd.)
Then, she followed up with a post today saying that she can take praise and criticism as well (no doubt referring to our post.)
At least we know that she is well aware of our arguments (if she read the comments.)
Oh, can Erna Solberg take criticism? Perhaps not of a type that she is not used to and does not have rote answers to? – It would be different if she did not invite open discussions, but she does! I have never thought she was a rocket scientist and she has a best friend who is a journalist and has written of CPS protesters with haughtly contempt (and not quite truthfully), but this makes her smaller in my eyes.
I don’t think she understood that she was opening up the opportunity for such an event to happen. I would be surprised if she gives us another opportunity in the same way. We don’t want to repeat that now anyway as she knows how to get it all deleted in one blow.
She seems quite small for such a large position, Marianne.
I would like to respond to Knut which made these remarks in an earlier post.
This are his remarks:
”Spanking is not normal in Norway – it’s forbidden by Law. That’s the situation for most countries in the world. If you don’t want contact With the CPS and the police – don’t spank Your children. It’s that easy. No – you can’t use violence and abuse Your children neither outside nor inside the Family premisses. There is the same Law for all inhabitants in Norway – muslims too. Normal People don’t need to spank their children – they are clever enough to themselves find other ways to dicipline their child – others need some help on the way.”
My response:
We, in Australia consider that speeding on our roads causes many accidents and deaths, which could have been prevented.
So lets say the Australian government is passing a law which says that if you are caught going over the speed limit just one kilometre an hour more, then your punishment as a result of your failure to obey the law is capital punishment, not only to you but to your entire family.
Now I will take Knut’s words and modify them a bit, so you can see how ridiculous his statement is.
Speeding is not normal in Australia. – it’s forbidden by Law. That’s the situation for most countries in the world. If you don’t want contact with the law and the police – don’t speed on our roads. It’s that easy. That is the same Law for all inhabitants in Australia – muslims too. Normal People don’t speed on our roads – they are clever enough themselves to stay in the speed limit.
If the law in Norway says that taking the children is a last resort than how come Barnevernet is destroying many families for should I say, going over the speed limit just a bit?
Any of us in Knut’s words are normal people. We do not speed on our roads, but I confess that sometimes,by mistake, I do go over the speed limit a bit for a number of reasons.
Do my family and I deserve to be put to death for this?
This is the situation in Norway. You have made a law which anybody in the CPS interprets in the way they feel like, with deadly consequences for many families.
If your country is so dangerous to enter into, why not put signs up in all major airports and roads entering the country saying the following:
.
”You are entering on your own accord,
You and your family may not come out alive.”
This is why we have been protesting and continue to do so.
If Australia had capital punishment for going a bit over the speed limit, then all Norwegians driving here would expect to be made aware of this law, with warning signs, every 500m or so. Would this not be the case?
I’m sure that in a case of a Norwegian being sentenced to death in Australia for such an offence, only Marianne and few other people will stand up and protest against such a stupid law.
You Knut, may not be one of the protesters and you may say:
I like the discipline in Australia when it comes to road laws.
You Knut,are ridiculous in your comments, repeating the same rubbish sentences when you praise the law system of the CPS in Norway.
That CPS system is clearly defected and junk needs to be gotten rid of.
Daniel’s analogy is fairly good, actually. It highlights the difference between mechanical, bureaucratic action and the use of good, common sense judgment.
Actually, our previous Minister of Justice, in the Labour-Left government, was once asked in a talk-show: “Have you ever broken the speed limit?” He answered calmly, with more or less these words: –– Yes, I have. Everybody who drives has done it. It is practically inevitable that you have happened to do that.”
So, common sense, reasonable judgment, do not let our laws destroy that which they are there to protect.
It is about common sense, Marianne.
I don’t know how someone in the 3rd or 4th generation of this “system” can have any left. There are miracles like Ken Olsen, but they are the exception. We must turn back the pages for them somehow.
Ken Olsen has some sense and sees and understands what is going on because he has suffered greatly himself.
Indeed, Marianne.
Exactly. Likethe sentence for the American boy in North Korea. Heavy labour camp for many years just for stealing the poster from the hotel. Similar. But North Korea only punished him. Norway mostly punished innocent children.
A posting to Fremskrittspartiet (the coalition partner in the Norwegian government which holds the Ministry of children) by Steven Bennett has been removed!
Cf http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37445#p37445
This would be another good story for this blog, Marianne.
The Christian, but extremely state-subservient newspaper Dagen continues its crusade against people who protest against Barnevernet’s abuse. Here is chief of the news desk Trygve Jordheim, who thinks it is a conspiracy, thinks the fact that people demonstrate is freedom of speech which does harm, and misleads foreigners into misunderstanding and fearing the Norwegian state and not seek the help which exists here in the “help services”.
“Den skadelige barnevernskonspirasjonen” (The harmful Barnevern conspiracy)
http://www.vl.no/meninger/kommentar/den-skadelige-barnevernskonspirasjonen-1.732976
He speaks about the “frustration” that he could see on many faces at the 28 May demonstration. With contempt. Frustration? People who have been deprived of their loved children?
Mr Jordheim does not want the Norwegian “conspirators” to mislead these poor foreigners.
He comes up with “ideals”: that Barnevernet is there to help children who need it, not to destroy immigrant families, he says. Heard it before?
He seems utterly locked into not finding out anything about whether the ideal is being practiced.
Another case where the pocketbook is more important than what Jesus would want, Marianne.
Wasn’t Jesus harder on pharisees than on the greatest sinners?
Sorry, sorry! It was not Dagen but the equally Christian Vårt Land!
I must correct it on my home page too – I seem to have been asleep!
Dagen is a Christian newspaper – Vårt Land has got a new editor and is no more a lefties newspaper with a touch of Christian attitude – more a paper for all kind of faiths.
“more a paper for all kind of faiths…”
Yes, Knut, the world is heading in that direction, a religion that somehow includes them all.
True Christians will not be able to tolerate it.
As regards Barnevern and its relation to Christianity, I would not say Dagen and Vårt Land are discernably different. That some Christians consider radical politics to be un-Christian and others consider conservative politics to be so, is another matter.
Here is an editor in Dagen, at a meeting in Wisla, Poland, as referred in his own newspaper:
“Redaktør Tarjei Gilje opplyste at Dagen knapt har mottatt så mange enkelthenvendelser om noen sak i nyere tid som i Naustdal-saken. Han hadde behov for å nyansere det bildet som er skapt internasjonalt:
– Jeg tror det er flere barn som får en kristen oppdragelse i fosterhjem enn motsatt, fordi mange kristne er fosterforeldre. Det betyr ikke at det ikke er gjort feil i denne saken, men en del av reaksjonene har vært uheldige, sa Gilje …”
http://www.dagen.no/Nyheter/naustdal-saken/–-Barnevernssak-truer-sivilisasjonen-345166
It means:
“Editor Tarjei Gilje said that Dagen has hardly received so many individual communications about any case in recent times as in the Naustdal case. He had a need of nuancing the picture which has been created internationally:
– I believe there are more children who get a Christian upbringing in foster homes than the contrary, because many Christians are foster parents. That does not mean that no mistakes have been made in this case, but some of the reactions have been unfortunate, said Gilje.”
So he and Dagen are just the same as the government, and as Vårt Land: They focus on whatever mistaken conclusions people abroad may have drawn regarding why Barnevernet does what it does, not on the atrocity of placing children just anywhere, not on what the known results of Barnevern in Norway is for so many thousands. Gilje is, just like the national Norwegian Pentecostalists, more concerned with whether children receive “a Christian upbringing” and with foreigners are maybe mistaken about religion as an argument used by Barnevernet, not with whether children are deprived of loved and loving parents and the disaster that creates.
There are, as I believe I have said before, very few and small groups of individuals in Norway which focus on the central issue: what Barnevernet does to children and their families. Among these few you find a small, very conservative Christian party: “De Kristne” and its leader Erik Selle, and some other Christians who think in an ethically more upright way than their congregation and not only of their convenience and their income from doing “good” by being foster parents. And you also find some people from the rather socialistic environmentalist party “Miljøpartiet De Grønne”, and odd individuals with all sorts of ideological bents but who realise that this issue is fundamental.
A very thoughtful answer, Marianne.
I have to be honest. What do I think Jesus would do in this situation? Looking at his first coming, He would denounce both major “Christian” parties mentioned. At His second coming, it will be a different story.
Again, we see what Knut really thinks about God’s word: ” Normal People don’t need to spank their children – they are clever enough to themselves find other ways to dicipline their child” He defends the ungodly world system against God’s principles–“Spare the rod and spoil the child”–just as he denigrates the call to all who honor God as being an “activist” (a pejoritve word in Knut’s vocabulary):
Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.–Isaiah
Hey, Mr. Snow – you live in one of the remaining free spanking countries in the world. If someone is depended of spanking their child to be obedient to their religion they sure know where to go.
Do you yourself practise all written in the Bible before the outpouring of The Holy Spirit?
You’ve cut in on me before, Knut, so I’m returning the favor.
Mike Snow, Knut’s idea of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit has been shown by him before to be the “manifestation” that Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding, CA, believes in. I’m not sure if you are familiar with Mr. Johnson’s theology but it is not Biblical. Check out the blog “The Narrowing Path” by Sherry Foreman, or the Lighthouse Trails Ministry website for information on Bill Johnson. These are both very good discernment sites. He is a false prophet and the “outpouring” that Knut discusses is practiced by him and his followers.
I thought you both should know, although, I think I’ve already mentioned this to Knut.
Development and understanding of the free will, have you 2 given that a second thought, Mike and Chris? Do you spank anyone if you”feel free” at the moment? Do you need to see it written in the Bible or anywhere else to justifice violance? And if it feels good for you,- in Norway: there is something wrong about you!!!
And-coincining with the rest of the world we consider that a psychopath.
So now we are talking theology, Topsy. I’m OK with that. Before I approach your comment, what is your belief system? You have hidden your name from us and you have also omitted what you believe even though you are obviously questioning my (and Mike’s) beliefs here.
About spanking, you should know that I have taught parenting classes to those who have had their children taken from them for various reasons. I taught these classes for five years in a Christian setting. It was a pretty unique setup I’ll admit and I feel blessed to have had that opportunity. The classes were court ordered in 95% of the cases.
We taught that the last resort was to spank and if one did spank, it had to be on the butt with the hand only. This caused the parent to feel the swat as much as the child so that the pain could be measured somewhat by the parent. Many parents spank out of anger. They react to a situation, get angry, and spank a child. This may not be the best way to spank, but is this a good enough reason to take a child away from his/her parents for life? It is insane to think that this is “violence.” How you modern people came up with that is beyond me.
‘ll tell you a secret just between you and me, Topsy. In America and across the world anyone who enjoys spanking their child does have something wrong with them. No one enjoys spanking. I have never seen a parent laughing while they were spanking their child, I know my Mom didn’t enjoy it. So, what makes Norway so special? Why were you the first country to consider spanking “violence?” Do the people who have created these policies have any common sense? Maybe they are the psychopaths of which you speak.
I got a rare spanking as a child, I think marks were left on me once during my entire childhood. Did I ever equate those spankings with hate? No. I was in trouble and there were consequences. It was obvious my Mom and Dad cared enough to discipline me. Most of the time, I felt guilty enough about what I had done that my parents could sense it and I didn’t need a spanking, only some other kind of punishment to help me understand that there were consequences for wrong doing.
Who is the one creating monsters out of children, those who occasionally spank their children or those who take children away from the people who love them the most and put them with complete strangers? When taken from his mom by the BV at 9 years of age (this was 30 years ago), one youngster cried all night and tried to look through the keyhole to see some light. He was told to be quiet and he was threatened with violence if he didn’t stop crying. He had no idea why he had been taken from his Mom and he was scared to death. His childhood was never the same after that as, for 7 years he was moved from place to place. I could give you more details but this is a Christian oriented site and I don’t want to be too graphic.
What is Norway going to look like in 20 years? I have a really bad feeling that things will not look so good even if there is a change now. The system must be abolished and rebuilt with different methods where the child is the most important one in the picture. Can if be revamped? I almost don’t think it is possible with all of the “training” social workers have received. They would have to be untrained after they serve any deserved jail sentences for any current or past criminal deeds inflicted upon families. Maybe they shouldn’t be allowed to go back.
Oh, I almost forgot the “free will” question you have. First it is hard to understand what your question really is as you mix the term with the “feel free” phrase in the next sentence. Contextually, it is difficult to figure out what you are asking. It sounds a bit theological in nature but on looking at it closer you seem to be asking something different than I first thought. The second sentence seems to overpower the first so the obvious answer would be “no.” Parents don’t go around spanking their kids just because they feel like it. Most of the time there is a reason they spank. Granted there are those who abuse their children and I, as a teacher, am mandated to call our local CPS if I notice unusual marks or bruises on a child. If I have misunderstood any of your questions, Topsy, please feel free to have another swing.
Chris.
You scare me!!
Now that I have finished laughing, Topsy. What is it about me that scares you?
Sociopaths scares me,
So, you are implying that I am a sociopath? Ouch, if so, Yspot.
If there is one place you are likely to meet people with those qualities, it is in Norwegian Barnevern and its assisting professions.
In Norway the children belong to Barnevernet. The odious institution has the last word about kids’ future. We hope that won’t happen in U.S. too…
https://cornelilioi.com/2016/02/01/today-happens-in-norway-tomorrow-will-be-in-us/
Mrs Erna Solberg, in your country God gives the children and Barnevernet takes them away:
https://family2fam.com/2016/05/31/peter-costea-in-norway-god-giveth-children-and-barnevernet-taketh-them-away/
Regarding “an ongoing police investigation on violence against children”:
On our Forum Redd Våre Barn there is a section called “The lawlessness in so-called child protection”. Today, a writer has posted about a recent case:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=8336
An underlying article, from the national broadcasting:
https://www.nrk.no/vestfold/mor-frikjent-for-vold-mot-sine-fire-barn-1.12831405
The case is this: A mother was first found guilty in the district court, but has now been found not guilty in the appeal court. The charge was violence against her children.
The appeal court found that the children were asked leading questions, and that the children’s answers in judicial questioning were partly contradictory and it was uncertain what they had experienced.
The dialogues between the children and Barnevernet, too, were criticised by several people. Psychologists, among others, said that there had been leading questions and that “words were put into the mouths of the children”.
So all is clear. So much for Barnevernet’s expertise in questioning and assessing children and what they say.
The appeal court has spoken. So then, all is well?
Oh no, because Barnevernet sticks to “the children’s explanations” and say that there are other demands on proof in a criminal case than in a child protection case. (This is correct; another question is whether it should be like that: whether a child protection case ought to be considered a near to civil case or whether the law should not rather demand full proof in such cases too.)
So what does Barnevernet want?
They want to pressure / force / tempt the mother to confess to that which she has been found not guilty of in court, before they will consider whether to return her children to her.
*
This mother was present at the demonstration we had last Saturday, 28 May, in Oslo, and she told me about her case.
This is primary source for sure, Marianne.
As “stories” like these add up, one would think the reality of the situation would become very clear. To this point, it has not. Thank you for continuing to bring real life stories to the fore. The thing is, you aren’t the only one doing this. Now hundreds are where before you were a few lonely voices. I have put this entire thing where it belongs, in God’s hands. One way or another, eventually there will be justice.
God’s blessings my friend…
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Victory against Norway in Europen Parliment:
http://www.romaniantribune.net/a10022_VICTORY_AGAINST_NORWAY_Report_on_Bodnariu_Case_approved_in_The_Parliamentary_Assembly_of_Council_of_Europe.aspx
This is a fine, fine step forward, Octavian. Thank you for searching and finding all sorts of useful things! And this one is such good news.
Actually, the original motion — most probably not updated yet on the webpage since yesterday:
http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-en.asp?fileid=22505&lang=en
and a resolution of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe from last year. referred by the motion:
http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-en.asp?fileid=21737&lang=en
I would say this last one is in particular important. Implementing the recommendationsin a balanced way could help a lot for children and families. Not only in Norway.
Halleluja! Praise the Lord!!! Time to celebrate!!! Bodariu family will be reunited!!!!!:-)
http://bodnariufamily.org/bodnariu-family-case-updates/official-statement-bodnariu-case-bodnariu-family-will-reunited/
The hearing has concluded that the Family are reunited With help measures and the parts both agree that the Family and the children need Peace from media and other users of this Family situation.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/norsk-rumensk-foreldrepar-far-tilbake-barna-1.12981408
I will no longer “use” this family for my protests, Knut. Now the focus is on the thousands of others who have been treated as poorly and worse than this family. Many have been waiting for years for news the Bodnariu’s received today. It does not come because there is no light shed on their cases. I, for one, will not rest until every family gets treated fairly.
I’m curious, Knut. Was any official apology given for such overreaction in the Bodnariu case? I bet not because that would be an admission of wrongdoing which the BV wishes to avoid at all costs.
For me, this battle is only beginning.
Wonderful news! Those poor children who have been kept from their loved ones for 6 months. Poor parents too, but they have had the possibility of communicating and are not kept in isolation with no way of finding out the truth.
It is a great relief. Of course the Bodnarius have no need of any “help” that Barnevernet dishes out. But it remains to be seen if Barnevernet will now dare to impose too meaningless and harmful, intruding actions on the family.
Since this agreement has been reached only during or as a conclusion of the County Committee’s hearing, and since Barnevernet’s proposal was that all 5 children should be taken from the family permanently, the only probable interpretation is that the CC has put pressure on Barnevernet, and Barnevernet has not been too sure of winning so they have given in. If they had entered into an agreement to return the children voluntarily, it could and would have been done months ago. So they have been pressed into it. For the CC, or a court, to put a certain amount of pressure on the parties to a case is of course quite regular; to reach agreements or compromises is one of the justice system’s regulasr functions.
All the best to the Bodnarius! Let us hope and pray that they may all recover as soon as possible and that the actions against the children by Barnevernet will not have too bad after-effects.
Hi Marianne,
It is, indeed, something to celebrate. Let me share a letter, already posted once on this long threat, that I have posted to Ms. Horne’s Facebook Page. It currently sits there at the top. This is my response to today’s news:
Ms. Solveig Horne,
I have seen your photo on several websites and blogs. I must be honest. Several months ago, I hadn’t ever seen or heard of you. Now, when I see your face, I think of little children. I think of children who are taken from their parents for the most minor of reasons. I think of Norway’s Barnevernet.
I don’t have to tell you that most of the world disagrees with the policies of the BV. You already know that. You also are aware of the news that the Bodnariu’s will be returned to their family if you do not appeal the decision. I know you already know what you will do. You will probably not appeal and allow the embarrassment of the situation to subside. If you appeal you know the world will be angry.
I, for one. will not go away no matter which decision you make about how the CPS will now treat the Bodnariu family. Will there be an apology sent for keeping children from their parents for months? You have been hoping the masses will go away. You wish them to go nicely back to their homes and have no more demonstrations in the streets.
I will tell you this.
There will be another demonstration in my town. I know because I will organize it. All of the signs but one we have we can reuse because they had the BV name on them and not the Bodnariu name as some of us had foresight. My goal will be to have more people at the next protest in my town than we had in April. I hope to have better media coverage. I will have more time to plan it than I did the previous one. I will pick a date for this protest in the next few months.
“Why am I going to do this?” some may ask. My response will be: “The Bodnariu family was one of thousands and we must not forget those thousands who have been treated just like the Bodnarius. One family has been freed but a system that denies human rights and due process to families continues to operate as if nothing has happened. I cannot be silent.”
This will be my true reply, Ms. Horne. I hope someday that your policies will be changed and that people in Norway can go back to a life where they don’t always have to be concerned about a principal, a neighbor, a teacher, a pastor, a “friend,” or anyone making a statement about a family that starts a process where the children are never able to spend any time with their parents without the intruding eyes and presence of the Barnevernet until they are 18.
Chris Reimers
A very concerned American citizen
“Since this agreement has been reached only during or as a conclusion of the County Committee’s hearing, and since Barnevernet’s proposal was that all 5 children should be taken from the family permanently, the only probable interpretation is that the CC has put pressure on Barnevernet, and Barnevernet has not been too sure of winning so they have given in. If they had entered into an agreement to return the children voluntarily, it could and would have been done months ago. So they have been pressed into it. For the CC, or a court, to put a certain amount of pressure on the parties to a case is of course quite regular; to reach agreements or compromises is one of the justice system’s regulasr functions.”
I have the same point of view. Reading the news articles and debates on Norwegian sites, as far as I see that complete denial was shifting slowly to real discussions and the immune system of the society is slowly getting awake. That hopefully will make a difference in outher Coutnty Committees and in District Courts and Appeal Courts.
THe internetional attention could be helpful to continue for a while. I especially welcome the information available about the motion at the Parliamentary Assemlbe of the Council of Europe — which also mentions that the number of emergency care orders per year is a high number compared to the populiation of Norway. For me that is a pretty serious symptom, and I am not sure, that the immune system of the society is really aware of that symptom yet.
I think that Norwegian society in general knows there is something wrong with CPS, but I am not sure they are ready to accept that the problem is THAT big. AS more cases come to light and as media in Norway opens up a bit, that may change.
From the Christian newspaper Dagen more information comes. I didn’t know that the father had one lawyer for his own and the mother likewise. I have never had that in some of the hearings I have participated in. This might have something to do with the information now readable that the father is still under investigation. The case according to criminal law for spanking is not closed .. but I guess it soon will. The one each lawyer might come from a consideration that it would provide legal space – I don’t know. If the lawyers found the CC to be to obsessed by the father and spanking – the mother seperate from the father could be an option.
The Council Man in Naustdal is a prototype of the “we know best ” – now he says this was a good solution and that they shall cooperate. Why this long time? Dagen asks – because of the legal surety ( rettssikkerhet) ? And then Chris – your question – is there something the CPS could have done in another way? We have been professionally focused – we have had the childs best in our focus. Dagen is not pleased with the answer – Is there something you could have done different? The conclusions done by the municipality are confirmed by two legal hearings – but – we are HAPPY that we now have come to this result and for the established cooperation.
http://www.dagen.no/Nyheter/barnevern/Naustdal-foreldra-f%C3%A5r-borna-tilbake-348100
“Is there something you could have done different? The conclusions done by the municipality are confirmed by two legal hearings – but – we are HAPPY that we now have come to this result and for the established cooperation.”
Back to business as usual, huh, Knut?
I just read the paper, Chris, but for the chronics the ammunition will disapperar and in the autumn it will be Mrs. M, you and maybe Mr, Prunean.
So be it, but I think you are wrong, Knut.
Mr Nygaard: “I didn’t know that the father had one lawyer for his own and the mother likewise.”
The Bodnariu couple have had separate lawyers from quite early, I think. That is not at all unusual, and I have been a witness in such cases myself. With an antagonist as unmanageable and unreasonable as Barnevernet, it is often the best. For one thing, Barnevernet will often try to split the couple, put them against each other (which they have already done with Ruth and Marius Bodnariu). If the situation becomes desperate so that the parents HAVE to divorce in order for the children to at least not be deprived one of their parents, it is important for both to have a lawyer to try and look after his/her interests, and preferably to act together in the best interest of the children, which is nearly always to get Barnevernet out.
On separate lawyers:
1. Separate lawyers for the parents? As long as they would like to, it should be natural. It would be a serious issue (undue process, violation of human rights) if it was not provided. This should be pretty normal in a developed democracy and I am surprised that it could surprise a child welfare employee.
2. I would rather advise to handle children as ligitants of their own and appoint independent lawyers by court order to them. So when their legal guardians (as barnevernet and parents are both their legal guardians) are fighting with each other, the court could get a help to really look the best interest of the children and not the best interest of barnevernet or the parents. (If you say barnevernet is representing the best interest of the children as their legal guardian while parents do not as their legal guardians, you simply apply double standards. Either have the assumption that all sides do or have the assumption that no side does.)
THe Dagen article at the bottom comes with the usual mantra from Norwegian Government about zero tolerance on violence. Zero tolerance on violence in itself is OK, but taking into foster care for any risk of any violence is simply a violation of European Convention for Human Rights Article 8, as it requires any state intervention to be necessary in a democratic society.
I would welcome a public debate in Norway that what kind of zero tolerance on violence is in accordance with the countries international commitments and when foster care was necessary in a democratic society.
As someone mentioned previously, you can have zero tolerance on exceeding speeding limits or parking in the wrong place, but you can do it with fines as well, not only by confiscating the car and never giving back plus invalidating driving license.
The parable is wrong mostly because children are not like cars which are objects and have no personal relationships to their drivers.
Thank you for what seem like very experienced words, Jasper.
Did you know that Mrs. M had a CPS on her own?
http://www.skanland.kommune.no/selvbetjening/nyheter/545-nyheter/3713-informasjon-ets-barnevern
I’m impressed. Marianne has never said anything about this. I can’t read Norwegian but I think I get the idea, someone please correct me if I am wrong.
So, Marianne tries to help hurting children and it has never been mentioned here? There can only be one reason and I have known this for some time: She is a humble person in spite of her high education.
I won’t ask more because I don’t want to embarrass Marianne in any way.
I would trust my children (even when they were younger) with Marianne.
I could not possibly trust my children or any other child for that matter with the Barnevernet.
Thanks for the information, Knut.
Hehe, a light-hearted joke from Mr Nygaard! Skånland is a municipality up north in Norway, Chris, and therefore has a Barnevern of its own. It is also the old name of a farm, and the surname of my husband’s family, taken from the farm/place. Many Norwegian surnames are place-names of that sort. The other major type are the “-sen” names, a patronymikon, a father’s name. In Swedish is usually has an “o”: “-son”. Something analalogous are the “-ov” names in Slavic, they are of identical origin to the genitive ending, so that “Petrov” means “Peter’s” with the understanding that it is “Peter’s son”. And I am sure the “-s” in “Reimers” may be the same genitive “s”. “Reimers” is a well-known name in Denmark. On Iceland they keep up the old custom of keeping the sex firmly in mind, a woman would be “Grimsdottir”, not “Grimsson”, whereas sex has been totally forgotten in Scandinavia!
The meaning of “Skånland” is uncertain; my hushand was a philologist like myself, and he wrote something about it once. It is most likely the same as “Skan” in “Skandinavia”, whatever that meant! Mr Nygaard’s name means “New farm / yard”, so he is just a recent settler.
Very interesting, Marianne.
So, the new kid on the block made a joke. He has such disdain for you that his jokes are not even funny.
You like me would, if wealthy, try and save some of these kids by creating a camp that they could go to to get away from foster parents awhile and have a change of scenery. I’m quite positive that the BV would find some reason that our camps would not be good enough.
We use the gifts that God has given us and He, in his infinite wisdom, chose that we not be born into wealth. If I am wrong about you, please forgive my presumption.
Thank your sharing the information about the name Reimers. I have been told that it is of Austrian origin and have a lengthy history of Reimers type names that attempt to back up that claim. Some interesting people have had the name. I always thought it was German but am surprised to hear that it is common in Denmark. It is a place I would love to visit except I will not now that I have found out that their Bornevernet is similar to Norway’s Barnevernet. So, sex has been totally forgotten in Scandinavia!? If I didn’t know we were discussing linguistics I would have a number of questions.
I hope you have a blessed day my friend…
I am sure you are right about “Reimers” coming from the German-speaking area. Lots of Scandinavian words and names come from German. The “-s” probably still is the genitive. It can be “-s” in German too, cf English, which is a close relative.
I have always liked it that it may have been German. Say what you will about them, they are a very industrious people. Thank you for the clarification, Marianne.
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