John Piper is probably the most recognizable face when it comes to contemporary Evangelical theologians and preachers. He is the author of dozens of books, and the founder of Desiring God ministries. He has been following the news out of Norway with stories like the Bodnariu case. In a recent podcast on Desiring God he said:
“…we humans are not in a very good position to define what perfect love in the Creator of the universe must look like. We are too sinful, too finite, too culturally bound.
For example, this is right off my front burner: I think that if the federal government of Norway were to vote on what a loving God must or may not do, they wouldn’t allow him to spank his children. This has been very much in the news recently because Norway has become increasingly, it seems, heavy-handed — I would say that anyway — in removing children from their parents who don’t measure up precisely to the ideas of what parental love looks like to the government. Whoa, government.”
We hope John Piper will bring the drama of the children in Norway to the forefront of American Evangelicalism as more and more newspapers and news outlets (Washington Times) are publicizing the stories of families like the Bodnariu family.
These are exciting times for Barnevernet victims who have suffered for years at the hands of this system.
Photo: Micah Chiang
Delight in Truth 
Reblogged this on agnus dei – english + romanian blog and commented:
Thank to Delight in Truth for this great bit of news!
….the support for the Bodnariu family and the other families caught up in the same predicament continues to grow….
John Piper: “Norway has become increasingly, it seems, heavy-handed — I would say that anyway — in removing children from their parents who don’t measure up precisely to the ideas of what parental love looks like to the government. Whoa, government.”
Some of the people who agree that Barnevernet is evil say that Barnevernet is not the same thing with Norway (Norway being OK, just Barnevernet is bad). This is the same as if you would say that the devil is not the same with his father…
Reblogged this on ANA TATAR ANDRAS.
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The article: “These are exciting times for Barnevernet victims who have suffered for years at the hands of this system.”
This touches me more than most things. When people see that this is not only the problem of getting the Bodnariu children back to their family and then the problem disappears, no there are other Romanian families, other non-Norwegian families, other Norwegian families, who have been badly wounded; and as long as this ideology is not curbed there will be new tragedies and anyone may be affected – that is the thing that gives me the greatest hope for what may come out of all this effort which first energetic Czechs took on and then all the Romanians. It is such a blessing. I think now maybe it may be the start of a change in many people’s hearts, a new wind blowing if we do our very best?
Yes, Marianne, especially with the Washington Times article today. It is a matter of time until the global mainstream media will blow the lid on this.
Look at this as partly the fruits of your tireless effort over many years!
Dear Marianne, I think that the movement is now well beyond the point of no return, it expanded so much and it’s about way more than just a few oppressed families…A lot of dirt has been uncovered…Your great efforts will pay off – hopefully sooner rather than later – but it will happen!
Dear DiT and Irinella,
I am very touched by your warm words, saying that some of the present upsurge may be due to me personally. I am of course not indifferent to such praise. BUT: You should know that when I started looking for information and possible like-minded people regarding this issue, I did find them! There were plenty who had already worked with this over a number of years, difficult and unrewarding as it seemed at the time – no newspapers would take matters other than at the most superficially, there had been no internet.
There were some people in Denmark, by and by I found a websitecalled Kafka (good name!), then Borgerdebat (The citizen’s debate) – http://www.borgerdebat.dk. Annelise Rasmussen of Borgerdebat is still there – Borgerdebat is quite passive at the moment but there is info about some cases from time to time, Annelise has not given up, in spite of being in reduced health). Perhaps Ken Joar Olsen should post his story (the one you quote from here, Chris: https://chrisreimersblog.com/2016/05/06/ken-and-vibekes-story-what/) on Borgerdebat, since a lot of Ken’s own story stems from CPS in Denmark, so the story would be informative there (i also think it is important in telling readers on Chris’s blog and here on DiT concrete things about the Danish CPS as well as Norwegian).
There were even more people I found in Sweden in the olden days. You know about nkmr.org. In Norway there were little groups / organisations, one based in Bærum (neighbour to Oslo), run by no more than two-three people; they wrote very good reports and were able to help and advise in some cases. There was a similar little organisation down on the south coast, run by only two people, which were good and active. Sometimes there were local radio programs, there was one in Bergen willing to have things about Barnevernet every week. There were a few lawyers who were really clear-sighted. There were individuals in many places who were both active when they saw something useful could be done, and who have provided people like myself with invaluable information. And you have no idea – or perhaps you have – of the encouragement it gave us who came later, to see that we were not alone, we were not the first, there were valuable experiences and efforts to build on.
We must not underestimate the foundation all of these people have provided. Yes, it was/is a foundation, without which we would be nowhere today.
I wish it were possible to get a quick and drastic change and everything put right in all our countries, but it isn’t. The way of thinking among Barnevernet and their allies goes deep. So it is a longer-term project we are engaged in. And the longer I live, the better I see that individual efforts are not a waste in the long run.
Reblogged this on B a r z i l a i – e n – D a n (Un Barzilai izvorât din Dan).
Wow it’s so great to see John Piper in the mix because his very honest insight and knowledge of the Bible makes his voice a prominent one. So great to see the news is reaching far and wide. If Barnevernet really wants to push along another international day of protests, they will have more speakers lining up to make this issue well-known!
Bjarte Gangeskar is a Department leader in the CPS in the municipal Eid in Sogn og Fjordane – the same county as Naustdal – 6015 inhabitants – a Place where everyone know everyone – also who the workers in the local CPS are – the headline is: “The CPS is under a critical search light” ( I’m in a hurry and I’m not sure that this is the Perfect, but Mrs. M may help?) – he says this on his newNorwegian language:
Norsk barnevern står midt i ein av dei største mediastormar nokosinne. Det er svært utfordrande for oss som jobbar i dette fagfeltet å hive seg på denne debatten. Vi jobbar i små samfunn, noko som gjer det umogleg for oss å være konkrete på kva vi opplever, utan at dette fører til at nokon vert identifisert eller trur dei er identifisert.
Barnevernet skal tole kritisk søkjelys: Å bli utfordra på at ein ikkje gjev god nok omsorg til det kjæraste ein har, vert sjølvsagt ofte opplevd som hjarteskjerande. Å oppleve å bli fråteken omsorga for borna sine er likevel umogleg å sette seg inn, for oss som ikkje har opplevd dette sjølv. Difor skal vi ha respekt for at foreldre tek ut raseriet og frustrasjonen dei kjenner på. Vi skal akseptere at våre vedtak vert gjenstand for debatt, rettslig etterprøving og klager til Fylkesmannen. Men, alle vil tene på at dette skjer med bakgrunn i fakta og i dei etablerte ordningane som finnast for overprøving av slike vedtak.
Når advokatar og psykologar, i dekke av å ha innsyn i enkeltsaker, utrykker ei generell misstillit til barnevernstenesta, blir dette for enkelt. At dei ikkje har nådd fram i høve dei foreldra som dei representerer er ein ting. Men, å hevde at både barnevernstenesta, Fylkesnemnda og Tingretten/Lagmannsretten er generelt er ueigna til å handtere slike saker, blir for enkelt. Når ein i tillegg hevdar at Fylkesmannen ikkje er kompetent til å føre tilsyn med barnevernstenesta, teiknar det seg eit bilete av at her skal det kritiserast uansett.
Barnevernstenesta jobbar i eit minefelt der nokon alltid vil oppleve inngrep som dramatisk og himmelropande utrettferdig. Slik vil det være uansett kor mykje ressursar ein satsar på dette fagfeltet. Betre utdanning, meir rettleiing og meir satsing på hjelpetiltak er sjølvsagt viktig for å førebyggje omsorgssvikt og unngå feil tiltak. Likevel vil det alltid være situasjonar der born ikkje kan bu heime. Desse situasjonane må vi handtere uansett kor mange demonstrasjonar, protestar og debattar som kjem.
Eg har jobba i barnevernstenesta i 25 år. Eg har gjort mange feil. Dei som har fått størst konsekvensar handlar om at eg ikkje har klart å hjelpe born som har vore utsatt for vald, rusmisbruk, seksuelle overgrep, trugsmål og emosjonell omsorgssvikt frå nære omsorgspersonar. Eg har nok og gjort feil som gjer at foreldre med rette kan kjenne seg krenka. Då skuldar eg dei sjølvsagt å innrømme det og be om orsaking.
Eg har opplevd å bli meldt til politiet for dei alvorligaste påstandar, eg har blitt utsatt for trugsmål og sjikane av verste sort. Eg har familiemedlemmar som har blitt sjikanert på grunn av eg har gjort ein jobb storsamfunnet har bestemt at nokon må gjere.
Kvifor har eg likevel jobba med dette i 25 år? Ikkje på grunn av inntekt, ikkje på grunn av status, ikkje på grunn av positiv merksemd, ikkje på grunn av maktkjensle. Men, på grunn av at eg veit at den jobben eg gjer diverre er naudsynt.
At akuttvedtak og vedtak om omsorgsovertaking ved enkelte høve vert overprøvd av rettsapparatet er bra. Dette kan likevel ikkje brukast som eit argument mot barnevernet – tvert i mot er det eit argument for at systemet fungerer og at barnevernstenesta ikkje har all makt.
Fortsett å ha eit kritisk søkjelys på den jobben eg og mine kollegaer gjer. Men, vær konkret og faktaorientert, og ikkje minst gjer det på ein måte som ikkje jagar oss i «skyttargravene». Det er ingen tent med, aller minst borna.
This was a good and honest message that I too will stand behind.
Bjarte Gangeskar is a Department leader in the CPS in the municipal Eid in Sogn og Fjordane – the same county as Naustdal – 6015 inhabitants – a Place where everyone know everyone – also who the workers in the local CPS are – the headline
is: “The CPS is under a critical search light” ( I’m in a hurry and I’m not sure that this is the Perfect, but Mrs. M may help?) – he says this on his newNorwegian language:
Norsk barnevern står midt i ein av dei største mediastormar nokosinne. Det er svært utfordrande for oss som jobbar i dette fagfeltet å hive seg på denne debatten. Vi jobbar i små samfunn, noko som gjer det umogleg for oss å være konkrete på kva vi opplever, utan at dette fører til at nokon vert identifisert eller trur dei er identifisert.
Barnevernet skal tole kritisk søkjelys: Å bli utfordra på at ein ikkje gjev god nok omsorg til det kjæraste ein har, vert sjølvsagt ofte opplevd som hjarteskjerande. Å oppleve å bli fråteken omsorga for borna sine er likevel umogleg å sette seg inn, for oss som ikkje har opplevd dette sjølv. Difor skal vi ha respekt for at foreldre tek ut raseriet og frustrasjonen dei kjenner på. Vi skal akseptere at våre vedtak vert gjenstand for debatt, rettslig etterprøving og klager til Fylkesmannen. Men, alle vil tene på at dette skjer med bakgrunn i fakta og i dei etablerte ordningane som finnast for overprøving av slike vedtak.
Når advokatar og psykologar, i dekke av å ha innsyn i enkeltsaker, utrykker ei generell misstillit til barnevernstenesta, blir dette for enkelt. At dei ikkje har nådd fram i høve dei foreldra som dei representerer er ein ting. Men, å hevde at både barnevernstenesta, Fylkesnemnda og Tingretten/Lagmannsretten er generelt er ueigna til å handtere slike saker, blir for enkelt. Når ein i tillegg hevdar at Fylkesmannen ikkje er kompetent til å føre tilsyn med barnevernstenesta, teiknar det seg eit bilete av at her skal det kritiserast uansett.
Barnevernstenesta jobbar i eit minefelt der nokon alltid vil oppleve inngrep som dramatisk og himmelropande utrettferdig. Slik vil det være uansett kor mykje ressursar ein satsar på dette fagfeltet. Betre utdanning, meir rettleiing og meir satsing på hjelpetiltak er sjølvsagt viktig for å førebyggje omsorgssvikt og unngå feil tiltak. Likevel vil det alltid være situasjonar der born ikkje kan bu heime. Desse situasjonane må vi handtere uansett kor mange demonstrasjonar, protestar og debattar som kjem.
Eg har jobba i barnevernstenesta i 25 år. Eg har gjort mange feil. Dei som har fått størst konsekvensar handlar om at eg ikkje har klart å hjelpe born som har vore utsatt for vald, rusmisbruk, seksuelle overgrep, trugsmål og emosjonell omsorgssvikt frå nære omsorgspersonar. Eg har nok og gjort feil som gjer at foreldre med rette kan kjenne seg krenka. Då skuldar eg dei sjølvsagt å innrømme det og be om orsaking.
Eg har opplevd å bli meldt til politiet for dei alvorligaste påstandar, eg har blitt utsatt for trugsmål og sjikane av verste sort. Eg har familiemedlemmar som har blitt sjikanert på grunn av eg har gjort ein jobb storsamfunnet har bestemt at nokon må gjere.
Kvifor har eg likevel jobba med dette i 25 år? Ikkje på grunn av inntekt, ikkje på grunn av status, ikkje på grunn av positiv merksemd, ikkje på grunn av maktkjensle. Men, på grunn av at eg veit at den jobben eg gjer diverre er naudsynt.
At akuttvedtak og vedtak om omsorgsovertaking ved enkelte høve vert overprøvd av rettsapparatet er bra. Dette kan likevel ikkje brukast som eit argument mot barnevernet – tvert i mot er det eit argument for at systemet fungerer og at barnevernstenesta ikkje har all makt.
Fortsett å ha eit kritisk søkjelys på den jobben eg og mine kollegaer gjer. Men, vær konkret og faktaorientert, og ikkje minst gjer det på ein måte som ikkje jagar oss i «skyttargravene». Det er ingen tent med, aller minst borna.
This was a good and honest message that I too will stand behind.
Bjarte Gangeskar is a Department leader in the CPS in the municipal Eid in Sogn og Fjordane – the same county as Naustdal – 6015 inhabitants – a Place where everyone know everyone – also who the workers in the local CPS are – the headline
is: “The CPS is under a critical search light” ( I’m in a hurry and I’m not sure that this is the Perfect, but Mrs. M may help?) – he says this on his newNorwegian language:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/05/12/kultur/debatt/kronikk/meninger/barnevern/44203526/
This was a good and honest message that I too will stand behind.
Mr Gangeskar is well-known to some of us for very harmful behaviour over a very long time to a family in Sandane, where he worked before. It is case f) here:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html
DiT readers would do well to read it carefully.
I know the family quite well and their lawyer very well, and I know the full truth about the case. The grandparents have helped their daughter and grandchildren in a wonderful way in all these years. Mr Gangeskar tried to have the police prosecute the grandfather and force him to give the daughter up for criminal prosecution.
When the family were able to come home a couple of years ago without being in danger any more, Mr Gangeskar moved somewhere else.
I notice in Mr Gangeskar’s article that he is most of all sorry about the children he has “not been able to help”.
I should perhaps add that although Bjarte Gangeskar writes that he has “in some cases” perhaps acted in ways which have made parents legitimately resentful, he trivialises such cases. In this he is not alone. It comes again and again:
When CPS workers are confronted with their atrocities, they say that “Anybody can make mistakes” and that is supposed to be an adequate excuse or apology. These people’s self-insight about past “faults” cannot be trusted at all to make them less of a danger in present or future cases.
How come you know so much about Mr.Gangeskar.?Did he realy move somewhere else?
You should stop now,mrs Skanland. It is past overdue for you to be angry about somethings happening in your past.You should relax and have a nice time in our age. Spending it on spreading hatepropaganda and misinformation is wasted energy. Haven”t you learned that by now?
You are invited to relax, Topsy. Professor Skanland is much appreciated for her work. She is beacon of hope for many victims of Barnevernet and she has dedicated much of her life and her retirement to this great cause.
I may be wrong, but I think Topsy trumps the others we have heard from here who are linked to the CPS. First, he/she doesn’t give us a name where the others have and now we have stronger statements than we have had from him/her before.
Topsy, will you identify yourself like most of us have?
No,Chris. But i do like you:-)
I’m not concerned about what you think about me, Topsy.
The fact that you won’t identify yourself, whereas Marianne has been very honest with us about her identity, makes her more honest than you in my opinion.
Will you at least tell us what country you live in, Topsy?
Topsy is from Norway
I thought so. Why did I have to hear that from you, Delight?
Topsy, we care less how Barnevernet lovers consider anyone fighting against them in Norway. We did not expect them to like / praise M.S. or anyone else who is revealing their odious conduct.
Moved where to?
I am invited to relax.
Thank you and i am going to
Please tell me how Mrs Skaanlan knows all about the work of Cps in Norway ?
In Norway she is considered a weirdo
Why do you listen to her?
She has studied the system for many years, she has studied countless case files, she has been an expert witness in court, and now her work is finally being recognized on the international stage.
BTW, out of respect for people, please spell her name correctly.
I think this question is directed towards Delight and he has known Marianne longer than I. His answer will be better than mine.
I believe Marianne for 3 main reasons: 1) The way she has conducted herself here in spite of the way she has been treated by CPS workers, 2) the fact that many other highly regarded professionals have disagreed with the policies of the CPS, making Marianne one of many critics, and 3) personal accounts discussed with me by those whose lives have been greatly affected in negative (horrible) ways by the Barnevernet.
What nonsense of “Topsy” to ask how I know. I already stated that above. Didn’t he/she read the link I provided? It tells the story of the case in summary. The family took action when Barnevernet, led by Mr Gangeskar, tried to confiscate the children. One of the things the family did was to contact some of us who were engaged against such unwarranted actions. They engaged a lawyer I know well too. I got to know the family and we have kept in touch ever since. I have furthermore read the case documents, among them what Barnevernet has written, documents which the family of course has in its possession.
It is nonsense of “Topsy” to try to present it as if I claim to know “all about the work of Cps in Norway”. What a peculiar, twisted way of thinking – making out that nobody can know anything about any CPS cases? That is what Mr Nygaard fills the DiT comments sections with all the time: – – we cannot KNOW – – – while he seems to believe that the courts automatically “know” the truth? The “confidentiality” idea seems to turn CPS people’s minds upside down so that they make out that everything is “unknown” to everybody except to the CPS and the courts?
We can find out and know properly about some cases, by accident or by searching for evidence in the normal way one does in any field. I would be a good idea if the courts and the County Committees would do the same in CPS cases (they certainly often do not).
Gangeskar moved to a neighbouring municipality of Gloppen, where Sandane is located. If “Topsy” does not believe I can possibly “know” this, then consult Gangeskar’s own article in Dagbladet, where he gives Eid as his place of work. “Topsy” can then consult a map, no doubt more reliable than my information.
This is another of many statements that make the Marianne/Topsy disagreement a no-brainer. The evidence on the side of Marianne’s scale makes the balancing tool fall over.
I think – Gangeskar is the right man to give the right information – and I think it’s of minor interest – to be a CPS in the municipality where you live have it’s costs and in the areas where det population is low and everybody knows all .. almost .. the CPS work may give consequences.
Have you ever read a sentence where Mrs. M inform you about something good or positive coming from the CPS? Have you noticed that the language twist general information and everything that can be positive about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS into something from her “master archive”? She is dangerous for a movement of any real and true knowledge about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS. You end up believing in a false “gospel” and as her useful puppets.
Mr. Prunean – Mrs. M is not considered an “expert” outside the retired handful of people with mixed feelings about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS. They are outside the common opinion – they are outsiders – not just in this view. They are of no interest and influence. No the Bodnariu case and the pentacostal movement is taken in as ammunition for something they don’t now other that it will possibly hurt Norway, Norwegians and the CPS.
“Have you ever read a sentence where Mrs. M inform you about something good or positive coming from the CPS?”
She is so busy keeping up with the evil stuff that she doesn’t have time for the good stuff, Knut.
“No the Bodnariu case and the pentacostal movement is taken in as ammunition for something they don’t now other that it will possibly hurt Norway, Norwegians and the CPS.”
BUZZZZZZZZZZ. There is the buzzer alerting all of us how wrong you are again, Knut. The Romanian Pentecostals along with all other Christians (and non-Christians) want the truth to come out. YOU ONLY CONTINUE THE LIE!!!
I quote Topsy adressing to the respected Ms Skanland: “You should relax and have a nice time in our age. Spending it on spreading hatepropaganda and misinformation is wasted energy. Haven”t you learned that by now?”
You are probably young, Topsy, and really believe the facts given by Ms M.S. and her analysis and all the other documents she offers are “hate propaganda”. I see no hate there, no insults, no misinformation. Aren’t facts cruel enough? So many children traumatized “in their best interest”? The very law regulating Barnevern activities violated when children are smuggled like the Bodnariu children were?
Could you imagine yourself as a child being separated like this from beloved and loving parents?!
Mr.Gangeskar still lives where he has been living for many years. I have checked. He was offered a new job in Eid municipality and he commutes everyday.
So that was a lie.
Go back and read what I was responding to, Topsy.
“The Romanian Pentecostals along with all other Christians (and non-Christians) want the truth to come out. YOU ONLY CONTINUE THE LIE!!!”
M.Skånland is the one lying.Thats a fact.
This is where we are in complete disagreement, Topsy. What motivation does Marianne have for lying?
If she is lying once,maybe she is lying twice? Maybe most of what she is telling is fiction?
So, Topsy, you are saying that Marianne is a habitual liar. Why would she be allowed to be an expert witness in court cases if so?
Also, you haven’t answered my question. What is Marianne’s motivation for lying? My question is not, “Why do you thing Marianne is lying?”
Also, your question marks give you away. You are guessing as to the reason that she lies. You don’t know why she lies. I have stated this before: I disagree with you and this time I will use the word “strongly.”
My question is even more difficult: “What do you thing Marianne’s motivation is for lying?” Until you can answer that factually, you can’t call her a liar. You have done this and you should apologize until you have proof of your claims.
I do not see much reason to enter into a discussion of whether I am lying. Let me just say that I am rarely concerned with CPS workers’ private address, and I haven’t looked for this one in the phone directory the way “Topsy” seems to. The moving I referred to, of course concerned place of work.
I think it would be a good thing if many Norwegians tried to show an interest in learning more about CPS cases described and mentioned on the internet, by others as well as by me, instead of spending energy trying, without investigating the cases, to pass judgment about the reality of what we know about them.
I completely agree with you, Marianne. It is obvious that Topsy thinks he/she knows Knut very well and thinks highly of him. That is all I need to know.
I do think that someone who calls someone else a liar should at least identify themselves. That Topsy doesn’t identify himself/herself gives Topsy no credibility whatsoever.
We all understand that the internet is not an reliable place to be informed about the CPS and what is going on in individual cases. To understand a case we must have the information given in the conclusions and we must have the legal answering given by the lawyer for the parents. If f.i. the Aria case is done in accordance with a conclusion from the Child Welfare Act § 12 a and d it tells me that both letters must be altered legally. Without knowing where a case has ended up we are misguided and misinformed – we are only emotional supporters to a legal case we don’t know the details in and the full history behind. It’s easy to tell a story that say a lot about the CPS, but little about the part the parents played. It’s easy for Mrs. M to give you an impression of knowledge, but she has no real knowledge – she has opinions and they are not the same as truth.
Will you repeat that in common sense English, Knut?
Now you want us to talk about Aria? If we do so, will her father get in trouble with your employer because somehow information got out that Aria was taken as a baby without any due process? Maybe his visitation will decrease to 1 hour per year.
Why don’t you send me the CPS file on Aria so I can speak “intelligently” on the baby’s case?
The parents and the lawyer have access to the Aria file. The parents have my sympathy, but in that case either we don’t know the legal situation and wording done in the conclusions and the complaints. The father said the Aria case is now going to the newspaper and that the journalist shall read all the papers – I don’t know if all is to be done, but let’s hope that the story coming out will help both the parents and – us in understanding the legal work done in this case.
“…but let’s hope that the story coming out will help both the parents and – us in understanding the legal work done in this case.”
I would love to understand the legal work done in this case thus far, Knut. On the CPS side, I have a huge lack of understanding about decisions made that have affected this family.
Reblogged this on Blog de albina.
“Share our common values….. freedom, democracy, equality (here we in Norway have a high score) and human rights ..friendship and partnership … our prime minister Erna Sol is on a visit in the USA and seems to enjoy the trip
http://www.vgtv.no/#!/video/127798/her-fleiper-erna-i-det-hvite-hus
Knut, if it was your children who were taken by Barnevernet for no real reason what would you do?
My guess is that he would never find himself in that position. By moral he is fundamentally a good person. He wants the best for everyone. He works for the CPS!! Who does that voluntarily? Legally in Norway; he would not harm anyone,nor physically or mentally,small or bigger grownups. Of course he knows the law- he is intelligent and uptodate on how the society evolves.
If he has been working for the CPS for more than 20 years ;i bow my head!! He knows a lot about not functioning families and humans scars on the souls. People who treat their children with respect and as equals, will not have them removed.
The children will tell eventtually. In Norway we listen to children, they are – of course-individuals. They do not “belong” to anyone.
Knut would not ever experience his children being removed by CPS because he has the fundemental respect and knowledge how to treat a fellow human.
I previously commented on Mr Nygaard’s contempt for families the CPS hits:
“https://delightintruth.com/2016/05/07/testimony-from-norways-cps-victims-real-and-raw/#comment-71131”
There is certainly not much respect, nor knowledge, in such a view of the world as that revealed in Mr Nygaard’s thoughts.
The self-congratulatory ideas of “Topsy” and Mr Nygaard are indeed tragic. They unfortunately illustrate the way many people Norwegians are blinded by an easy belief in a destructive regime. Many families have believed that the CPS does not concern themselves or their friends because they are “good parents”. That is the way Norway has worked itself into a blind alley.
I ask YOU then Topsy; What would you do if your children were unjustly taken away from you by Barnevernet?
Hi Hildi,
After the answer she gave for Knut, I don’t think there could be any way her children could be taken. They are untouchable because she is a “good” parent.
Just to remind you, Topsy; Those Norwegian CPS workers you call”fundamentally respectful, intelligent, uptodate and good” ARE taking many children unjustly away from parents. The youngest of the Bodnariu children who was returned for having wrongly been confiscated is an example. And he is by far not the only example! There are even mothers who don’t get the chance to be mothers because their babies are forcefully taken away after birth. If you, Topsy, were in their shoes, what would you do?
Hmmmm…. legal cases and emotions … saw “Hellion” just because it contained the word “CPS” – not the most impressive movie, but it contained much of the emotional landscape that more or less may emerge in some individuals.
Thirteen-year-old Jacob’s increasing delinquent behavior forces Child Protective Services to place his little brother, Wes, with his aunt. Jacob and his emotionally absent father, Hollis, must finally take responsibility for their actions and for each other in order to bring Wes home. We are in the Galvestone area in Texas. From 2015 – the whole movie
So, what is your point, Knut?
“The children will tell eventtually. In Norway we listen to children, they are – of course-individuals. They do not ‘belong’ to anyone.”
What? Are you serious, Topsy? These children belong to God, not the state. The best opportunity a child has in every way is to be with his/her biological parents. There are cases where abuse happens to varying degrees. The severity of the punishment meted out to families in Norway is beyond common sense. It is cruel and unusual punishment. This is an understatement in several cases i am aware of. If these cases were isolated ones, they would be easily discerned and corrective action would be taken to make things right. Because there is never any corrective action the cases are not isolated, they are usual. It is madness.
I quote: “By moral he (Knut) is fundamentally a good person. He wants the best for everyone.” Either you know him personally and are devoted to his person, it’s your right, or you sincerely think working for the Bv is such an exemplary achievement in itself…? And you call others liars spreading hate… On what basis? Are there many youths like you in Norway nowadays? If so, too bad for such a beautiful, “happy” country.
I wonder Topsy, how many children have you taken away? Clearly you are CPS and bowing your head to Knut makes you a fool, just like him. He is older than Marianne. Did you know that? So what retirement and relaxation are you referring to for her, that should also be referred to Knut?
It seems there is a gap in education for you, Topsy. Let me point out something, there is a huge difference between equality and fairness. Equality is ‘exactly alike’. Let’s look at it this way. Two sisters get $50 as a gift for their birthday. That is being equal. But let’s consider, one is older and about to reach a milestone, let’s say 18. And the other is only 10. Now, does the 18 year old deserve the same gift as the 10 year old? If you say yes, then it is people like you that will bring Norway to it’s knees. Respect towards kids, yes, but equality is not even what the kids want, it is fairness.
You do NOT listen to children. This has already been seen – there is no eventually. You are on the same ‘something else’ campaign as Knut who always believes there is ‘something else in every case that no one knows about.’ No. We are on the ‘there is nothing else’ campaign.
You are disrespectful, and make yourself look really uneducated Topsy. Norway should tremble at the idea that they created someone like you. And a generation of like minded imbeciles that have no respect for their elders.
Your comment that Marianne is considered a weirdo inside of Norway has of little value to us because your loss is our treasure. Your CPS is creating a generation of children who will one day be children and I can guarantee you they will revolt against you. That is what will speak eventually.
I’m not older than Mrs. M. – she is retired many years ago – she is about ten years older than me – I’m still working in the municipal CPS and have done so since 1987.
“Something else” is the unknow in content project Mrs. M. needs a revolution to achieve. She knows there never will come such a revolution. “Nothing else” is another word for the same “revolt”. I think Norway never will go away from the view that it’s the child that is the main person in a CPS case and that duty silence will be upheld for the child’s protection and future.
You have a language that give the reader much information about your anger and activism. It’s true that Mrs. M. is a nobody outside this movement.
No, you have not worked at CPS for 2 years and you already told us your age. You foster kids but that is all. You have mental health issues and the comments you leave proves that. The something else is your campaign, not ours. We don’t believe there is anything else that needs to be known about a case. You don’t intimidate me and we already know how you will respond and react Knut. Very predictable and lame.
Oh – you know more about my daily life than I do. I have worked in the CPS since 1987 – also the last two years and I’m in my office just know. This is my “left hand” work almost done at the same time as my ordinary CPS work. I have no foster kids. You are as misguided about me as you are about what’s going on in the CPS in Norway. No – that would have been great – everyone with internet is free to produce their own facts and truths about what’s going on in ones personal related CPS case – and so it should be and then if… that is not the truth anyhow – we down under know best.
Yes Knut, you are retired for 2 years. It’s not the internet that told me either, so I know my facts are solid.
Yes Marianne, you are quite right. I have been watching the commentary for a while now and I have been storing what Knut says in a seperate document. Anyone reading it can see he is random and out of sorts, eapecially when looking at the timeline of responses. So I will continue to read and not respond, at least you know we appreciate and value you. You are a treasure and there is much to learn of your calm natured responses which are informative, valid, experienced and intelligent.
Dear Cristina, never mind about them. Let us just concentrate on finding and exposing as much information as possible. This is what worries the CPS people. This is the “fear” they are afraid that we are creating: not us being afraid of them, but ordinary people in Norway and other countries, people with children most of all, having their eyes opened so that they come to have a realistic fear of the CPS because they are forewarned. If people moved out of the way before the CPS could hit them, the CPS could not “help” them and would be idle. It warms my heart when people on DiT defend me against attempts to brand me in some way. But also: Don’t you find, like I do, that such upset among CPS lovers means that what we do is of some value?
I am getting a lot of useful info from DiT and people writing there. An article from Austria posted by Octavian gave me the opportunity to write something today about Austria, and link to other articles. Because Austria is not as milky white as people there think either. (http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8305)
I try to post links to things that may be useful for you people in return.
Have you read e.g. Suranya Aiyar’s article here:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7439
Suranya is putting up a very valuable fight in India to go against Western style child “protection” spreading there.
No wonder politically correct fanciers of state tyranny want censorship of the internet!
Fear. That is what you play on. Peoples fear. :
:
“Many have believed that the CPS does not concern themselves or their friends because they are “good parents”.
Please give me examples of all these families. Documents?
Norway is a fair game?
“Topsy” is not going to bully me – or others – into giving him/her documentation which he/she is then going to “examine” and “judge” deficient, while claiming that CPS people’s “version” of cases and conditions is self-evidently true. It is not. Provide documents for “Topsy”‘s inspection? While the CPS and other authorities at the same time keep blaming the victims every time they make public the same documents? Supposed to work like a Catch 22, is it? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
There is very much documentation available to anyone who goes looking for it in a respectful and humane way. If one does not think anything I have provided in numerous articles worthy of checking up on (much of it is very easy for a Norwegian to check and verify), one could consult e.g. a number of lawyers who have had such cases and who, just like me, report that the way the CPS goes about things is alarming and destructive. If one approaches them in a respectful way, I am sure one would get cooperation about it. That is, if one is stubborn enough to hold on to the fiction that all the victims themselves are contemptible liars. The collected evidence of victims, lots of whom are willing to show one all the documents in their cases, is impressive in itself. – One can not act out the way “Topsy” or Mr Nygaard do and at the same time claim to be respectful and humane and have everybody’s best in view. For one thing, all the children who flee from their foster places where they are kept by force are real, not invented lies. The CPS children who want to stay where they are, can of course do so. That in no way justifies keeping all those who want to go home to their parents from doing so, and claiming they are liars too.
I understand very well this desire to make myself disappear from DiT, I am no doubt an irritating dent in the smooth surface. So CPS people try what they are used to doing to defenceless victims, but which does not work quite that easily with me: pretend I am a liar, pour various expressions of contempt upon me openly, “examine” me while keeping one’s own defenses up, pretend that nobody wants to listen to the very real plight of very real people who have been unfortunate enough to believe in the milk and honey picture of the welfare state and have not got out of the country in time – and have experienced destruction of their families and their loved ones.
But getting “rid of” me will not solve the problems Norwegian CPS is facing. There are for example the very clear lies by CPS people themselves, such as when Horne and Trommald again claim that “taking a child away from its family is always the last resort, after everything else has been tried”. Too many people now know the contrary to be true – Czechs know it about Eva Michaláková’s case, the Nigerian parliament knows it (they sent a very able and sensible MP to Scandinavia a year or so ago to support mothers whose children were taken here), the Romanians know it full well as regards several cases.
“Are there many youths like you in Norway nowadays?” It is a good question, agnesD.
If the behavior of Norway’s CPS continues to be tolerated, Topsy will look like an angel compared to many of the youth coming out of the “system.” These young people will have no grounding whatsoever and events will happen that Norway never dreamed would happen. These events will not be good.
“Fear. That is what you play on. Peoples fear.”
Whoever you are Topsy, I think you are well aware that Norway’s CPS has got inducement of fear down to a science. Your workers are well trained and can adjust to different situations. If a worker is getting frustrated by the inability to control a parent or child a police officer is waiting in the wings. I’ve done many visitations and the only time a police officer entered our building was when a criminal was lose in the neighborhood. Criminals can cause fear. Criminals steal things that don’t belong to them. As the old saying goes, “If the shoe fits…”
Almost all that reads or comment on this blog believe in Jesus who said several times: “Fear not” – this movement stear up a lot of unnecessary fear in people – and – “Fear is a man’s best friend” –
You are saying that we are the ones causing fear, Knut, when, in truth, it is your employer who creates fear and anger in so many.
I think it is quite normal to be concerned when you see injustice.In cases of fear you run away.But when you are concerned and care you do something. And I bet you wouldn’t just sit around if your children were unjustly taken away from you, Knut!
If your kids were unjustly taken away from you, Knut, maybe based on your past, would you just sit around doing nothing? I guess you won`t answer my question. But maybe something to think about…..