Despite this development, the Bodnariu family continues to have four out of five children confiscated!
In February 2016, after months of dragging their feet, Barnevernet performed a psychologic evaluation of the Bodnariu parents. Senator Titus Corlatean revealed on a Romanian TV program at Antena 3 that the Bernevernet psychologist who performed the evaluation was somewhat surprised that it took 3 months for this evaluation to be done. The psychologist was also surprised that such evaluation did not take place BEFORE the children were confiscated.
Moreover, the psychologist’s report indicated a healthy parental environment in the Bodnariu home. The exact words Corlatean used were “positive and favorable” in describing the content of the evaluation with respect to Marius and Ruth.
Given these details which have not been made public until now, we must ask the question: what is going on inside this sinister institution, Barnevernet? And since Barnevernet has politicians at its head, we must ask the Norwegian government: what is the hold up?
Clearly there is evidence of cracking under pressure going on inside Barnevernet.
Their own psychologists which typically side with the CPS/government have given the Bodnariu parents “positive and favorable” marks. But they only returned one out of five children!
How hardened can the government of Norway be? Delight in Truth thinks that Norway could have avoided the upcoming shame of April 16th, 2016 if they would have returned the children by now. It had the chance to do the right thing willingly.
Now Norway will be forced to do the right thing to their shame and return the children under massive international pressure.
BBC will publish a critical program against Norway on April 15th, one day before the unprecedented international day of protest against the Norwegian CPS. The name of the show is Norway: Parents Against the State.
This anti Barnevernet movement is now too much for Norway to manage. Just yesterday Norwegian TV2 covered in detail the confiscation of twins, just hours after they were born! The pretext for this acute intervention was the mother’s developmental delay (mental retardation), which turns out to be a fluke because she was cleared by a psychology evaluation.
Norwegians are opening critical eyes toward Barnevernet.
Finally.
We expect and welcome Norwegians in protesting against Barnevernet on April 16th, 2016.
Delight in Truth 
Its about time to hold the CPS people personally responsible for their fraud. This is a crime against children. And violation og human rights.
Reblogged this on ANA TATAR ANDRAS.
Thank you for keeping us informed, Delight.
I will be surprised if the Barnevernet doesn’t return the other four children on or before Saturday. They will then laugh at our protests as there will no longer be a “tip of the arrow.”
There has got to be a way to continue to keep the pressure on after the Bodnariu family is reunited. I saw a clip of a documentary done in 1993 where this entire problem was already exposed. If the pressure goes away after this one family is helped, the problem will continue (and I think grow worldwide) in the next 20 years.
This is one issue that is uniting Christians of all types worldwide. While we have momentum, I think these protests should continue (maybe twice a year?). If things don’t change, I think boycotts should be the next step. I hope those who have taken to the streets on this occasion don’t get off the train because of one victory.
God’s blessings…
They are so hardened that I do not believe they will return the children before April 16th. To their shame.
I wonder what Knut has to say about this development of contradiction within his organization.
After what we have seen on your blog, you may be right. I think their smartest move would be to release the Bodnariu kids to try and stop worldwide protests so that they can attempt to continue their devious ways. However, we know the poor decisions a hardened Pharaoh once made. The results surely didn’t end in his favor.
Since it is around 4:15 a.m. where the pawn is, you probably won’t hear from him until he clocks in in the morning, Delight.
In addition to being hardened and caught up in their own ideology of CPS care always being the only safe and positive thing for children, they are also in a corner, wet paint all around! Namely: If they let these children go AND with all the millions of people around the world knowing about it, they fear a deluge of other people who have been treated equally to the Bodnarius making “trouble” to get their children back. And they fear foster children demanding more vigorously and strongly to go home also.
That is the basic way all their “confidentiality” serves them: that people don’t know anything like the full horrors of the system because open communication about it, by people of flesh and blood saying, “It is OUR family this is being done to, we are here next to you, we are real”.
Mr. Prunean – this is not a surprise – if you have read my comments I have spoken of this coming return for months. The questions is – when – and I do hope the local CPS and the County Comitee give the green light for return, but – the worst case scenario is that nothing happens before the session in done in the month of May.
Wrongs will be done in the public services to the end of times, Chris. No society is perfect. I think facebook and blogs are a good help for supporting some of the wrongs, but facebook is also no reliable source – you – I and others can make up whatever truth we will.
Now – Vibeke has had her story in the local paper. If the possible wrongs take it’s journey from the local media to the world in every country in the world you will be busy for the rest of your days, but you or any movement can’t change public internal services in other countries. That should be obvious.
Congratulations, Vibeke!
So, no external inference in other peoples’ business. It’s exactly the Soviet Union always told, and Putin as well… until he, and others, interfered with Syrian’s problems.
I think protests from outside can help people hardened in their own beliefs to reconsider things and change. By “people” I mean not only the organization you work for, but the politicians as well, the lawmakers.
Your society is considered one of the most progressives in the world. Then, how come, willing to uproot every possible harm to children, Norway adopted such laws as the ones governing Barnevern? How come, in order to avoid a small harm, one may legally commit an enormous one? Because separation from families is always a traumatism for a child, even, as in your own situation, the new parents can be seen as better.
As a parent, I can tell you I was wrong many times, not only was I not a perfect mother, but I often could be seen as “damageable”… with all my love. But my imperfect love gave my children, now adults, the one thing irreplaceable. And we are still close and still love each others.
Giving advice is a good thing, keeping an eye on troubled families, as well. But in order to take drastic steps, one (even CP people) should seek for independent advice. An emergency is an emergency, it is easy to understand this. But what when there are only someone’s impressions or allegations or lies…?!
Hi agnes.
“Your society is considered one of the most progressives in the world.” I know that you are using progressive in the positive way here agnes. You have made many good points.
As more and more people hear the truth about the Norwegian CPS system, the country will be seen as having gone back to the Dark Ages.
Chris: “…. the truth about the Norwegian CPS system, the country will be seen as having gone back to the Dark Ages.”
Not “back”, Chris, we have never been here before. The superficial, behavioristic ideas of attachment theory and practice have never been practiced before the 20th century.
And Mrs. M – that’s just the same as our neighbours and the rest of the Western world.
I found this link that says the following about Norway and the implementing of CPS:
The first Child Welfare Act in the world was introduced in
Norway in 1896 (Dahl 1985)
– It included both neglected and ‘asocial’ children
– It introduced ‘municipal welfare boards’ as decision-makers
– This frame was followed by other Nordic countries – Finland was the
last one to introduce its first child welfare act in 1936
– This frame is – in a general way – still present in the Nordic child
welfare systems
• Family-service, welfare orientated systems (Gilbert, Parton &
Skivenes 2011)
The 20th century was marked by legislative reforms in
social policy and family policy and the recognition of
children’s rights
Orientation towards family-services
– Low threshold for services; a wide array of childhood and family
problems
– Emphasis on voluntary in-home services
– Care orders as the last resort
– Children’s rights and the child’s best interest as the leading
principles as well as respect for parental rights
– Close interaction with universal services for families and children
but still a separated system
Yet: no single ‘Nordic system’ but a lot of variation among and within
the Nordic countries
– In Finland there are more than 300 municipalities for a total population of
5.4m implementing the legislation
• Variation also within municipalities!
Click to access international-conference-tarja-poso.pdf
Interesting. So this is Norway’s introduction to the Dark Ages.
I was, however, referring to the literal Dark Ages. I think everyone went through those.
Knut Nygaard
APRIL 11, 2016 @ 11:07 PM
“Wrongs will be done in the public services to the end of times, Chris. No society is perfect. I think facebook and blogs are a good help for supporting some of the wrongs, but facebook is also no reliable source – you – I and others can make up whatever truth we will.”
Funny, you said that, because that is exactly what Barnevernet is doing: Making up their own truth. The “truth” of Barnevernet is nothing but the personal opinions and prejudices of barnevernet employees. And therefore it is a breach of human rights to remove children from parents solely on the basis of these opinions or “assessments” as they are called.
But I think it is also very wrong to let psychologists decide whether children should be removed from parents. Many times these assessments are as prejudiced as barnevernet’s. Let the facts speak for themselves. If the parents have done nothing wrong to their children, do not interfer.
We are so on the same page, cecilie.
So true, Cecilie!
Yeah – we all can make up what truth we will try to sell … on the internet .. on blogs .. oras the language professor try to sell …. as well as being the oracle for all general knowledge of the kingdom of Norway.
You say you have been in touch with the CPS and I am sure that you noticed that the childs situation was not your considerations against just the one contact person. You and the cp cooperated in a process – who can give knowledge? – who have information? – what help measures should be considered? a,s,o,
Our job is tho give service in accordance with the Child Welfare Act. We don’t know when we open a childs situation wheter this is bird or fish. We conclude around 50% of our investigations with case closed.
Hard as it is to understand your Norwenglish, I do not share your view of child-confiscation as a “service”. Neither do I agree with your allegation that “[I] and the cp cooperated in a process” because I would not call the act of violent seizure a cooperation between the perpetrator and the victim. If my experience had been limited to having “been in touch with the CPS” I would have been immensely grateful; unfortunately the experience has been years of torture.
Child protection service is a municipal public service given to the inhabitants in all our 422 municipalities. There is no “violent seizure” in the first conversation done after we have opened the situation for a child/ren. ( I could have written “case”, but the youth in The Change Factory have given us some text changes – “case” is out and “child with a name” is in.
You, as in Barnevernet, seize children without even speaking to the parents who are denied the right of contradiction. The children are seized against the will of both parents and children; that constitutes violence.
Coercive measures cannot be called a “service”.
I agree Cecilie, the decisions should be much more based on real evidence and less on CPS notes, psychological reports, statements from kindergarten etc.
It means medical examination and eventually police investigation. Unfortunately it seems that it is not the case often.
Knut, you are not serious to call it cooperation, are you? In the case that children are removed there is obviously no cooperation between CPS and the parents. The CPS is the one who has the power and power can be abused. Seriously, someone has to look at those emergency decisions. Its not normal that the amount has risen so much. According to this article the amount of newborn children confiscated by CPS in 2014 was triple the amount of 2008.
http://www.tv2.no/a/8219203
Pavla: “Seriously, someone has to look at those emergency decisions. Its not normal that the amount has risen so much.”
The CPS has always wanted to take many more children than they have been able to. Now, in the later years, there is new legislation, more employees, and added trust and prestige given to whatever the CPS does, so they have been able to go ahead more and more as they like. They have always wanted to take at least as many as at present, and now they are permitted to do so.
Marianne, I have heard that the amount of emergency decisions has rapidly increased after 2007? In that time there was also a horrible case of abuse of a boy Christopher in his own home. Could it also have anything to do with it? Just like in UK they had Baby P.?
I agree with cecilie that what is happening is violent.
Here is the definition of violence: “behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.”
I know the CPS doesn’t want children to die because then their funding decreases. I also know children die under “CPS care.” Any doctor (let’s ask Mr. Prunean if he sees this) will probably tell you that psychological damage can be as bad as physical damage. How can the pawn not know of Norway’s country-wide fear by parents that their children might be taken at any time? (A power trip?…If so, it is evil.) How much psychological damage has that caused? Physical damage can lead to psychological damage and visa versa.
It is the family in Norway that is being damaged and killed.
“Marianne, I have heard that the amount of emergency decisions has rapidly increased after 2007? In that time there was also a horrible case of abuse of a boy Christopher in his own home. Could it also have anything to do with it? Just like in UK they had Baby P.?”
It would have increased anyway. The Christopher case is just water to the mill. Note: The abuser was NOT Christopher’s father, he was his step-father. If there is one thing we know from extra solid statistics, it is that step-parents are extremely over-represented as abusers, compared to biological parents.
It seems that now they are smarter and knows more than the psychologist, like they also proclaimed in our case…
Where they tried to report her to the comision of psychologist, and when that failed they didnt aknowledge her findings. Even thou she was court appointed.
Yes, ‘seems’ is the correct word. Barnevernt needs to be micro-managed and not be allowed to defame the psychologist that appears to go against their views. You are a credible individual that sees the world in a unique way and I like that you don’t follow the trends. Your state failed you and if it’s anyone that has a right to be angry with Barnevernet, it’s you. And those wrongfully taken and/or had someone taken from them.
If Barnevernt thought your daughter will be dangerous at home, they have no idea what danger they are bringing on themselves by keeping her away. Because she will ask questions, and hunt down her family, and feel ripped off, and will bite the hand that currently feeds her because of every moment they have kept her apart from her family. I too pledge to continue the fight even after the Bodnariu family because this is not a system that deserves one second on its own. So Horne is too busy? Well we will micro-manage for her… The choice is really hers.
Of course, if many of them are like Breivik. Doing something wrong and think they are doing the right things.
Thank you for this news. Also I would like to thank Cristian Cazacu for this video, ought to be shared on facebook:
Very cool, Octavian. I will definitely use this.
God’s blessings my friend.
God hardened their hearts, just like Pharaoh’s so He can bring judgement upon them.
Theologically speaking, correct!
Reblogged this on Ropenti.
Reblogged this on Christ4roNews.
Even if Barnevernet would return all the children to the Bodnarius before April 16 (which I would absolutely love to see) we should still demonstrate for the return of all the other (hundreds?, thousands? of) children who have also been wrongfully taken away from their families. This is not only about 5 children. It is about thousands. It is about a nation that needs to repent.
Absolutely. We will protest on behalf of all the families who had their children removed from them without merit.
It’s no shame to return the children – and Chris – you’re right – as I said months ago they would have been reunited … months ago if this was a case done from our CPS. Horne has a job do to get the CPS united in their assessments leading up to an emergency or not. This is unnecessary.
No Knut it is no shame to return children , the CPS should admit that they were wrong and try to fix it themselves. They should have done that after the medical examination did not prove any abuse. The psychologist is surprised that it had to take so long for the parents to be evaluated. Do you think the Bodnarius have chosen it themselves?
CPS should try to help the families, especially after the removal. How did they help the Bodnarius and other parents who have won their children back in court.
Pavla, Knut will ignore your questions for sure, as BV do nothing to help families. They are just looking for new places where they can kidnap.
We all know that what BV is doing it is a business, not best child interest. If BV would care about best child interest, they will stop financing foster falilies and provide Parenting training. But they don’t. It is obviously why: they are profit driven and not best child interest driven.
What we do .. and don’t do … you find here …
http://www.bufdir.no/en/English_start_page/
Yes, we provide parenting training – yes, people who work get paid in Norway – I think the same system and payment done in Your own backyard, Mr. Lance. There is not any other profit in this public service than to the best for the children, their parents and their families. We have only expences – no profit.
Why didn’t BV provide Parenting training for Bodnariu, Olsen, Natasha and Erik (http://www.tv2.no/a/8215457) and many other families instead of kidnap they children first, some of them directly from maternity? You are a liar Mr. Knut!
This New Norway reality: http://bodnariufamily.org/articles/66-6-hours-norway/
Please read it Mr. Knut!
Knut, I have asked what you do for the parents and children , after the children were removed, not before. What help do you offer to them, what are you doing for the family to be reunited as soon as possible and the trauma being as little as possible? To me, it seems that there is not much thought about children when they are moved so far from their homes and separated from each other. Nobody with a common sense would move children like the Bodnariu 4,5 hours from their home and separate them from their siblings hours away..How often do you think the girls are able to meet the boys since they live so far apart?
The task of CPS should be to protect the children but also the families. They should help families even in such situations and do anything possible to reunite them and make sure the contact with the family is frequent in the cases when its not possible for the children to stay in their families. As said before only in severe cases this should be exception.
Many parents feel that there is NO help after the children were removed. The parents should not need to win so many children back in court, it should be initiative of CPS. Then the CPS would get back some trust they have lost. Just go and read the comments under the FB article regarding the removal of the twins. There are too many critical comments. Many people do not blindly trust the child protection anymore and the child protection service needs the trust of the people, if there is no trust, they can not function. You underestimate the power of people.
Robert I know, but I want to hear Knut. I am not interested in official webpages he offers, but personal opinion. Too many children end up in foster care and too many children can not be raised in their biological family when the parents are not able to. I am also still waiting for some statistics regarding the number of returned children. There must be some surely, since they know how many children are taken each year and how many are in care..
I tried to read this mocking crap a … hmmm romenian lawyer .. writes about Norway. I.m quite sure no other visitor to Norway are able to give the same impression of theri 66.6 hours in our county. This crap is both untrue and insulting. What the lawyer have for purpose posting it I don’t know – maybe he hates us Norwegians this much for just the Naustdal case – I don’t know, I leave Costea to his subjective impressions of Norway – and as I say . no other visitor have had a trip like this man.
Mr. Nygaard, please let us know you Christian opinion about following statement: “Sexuality education. Children are taught in schools that same-sex relations and same-sex marriage are appropriate and, starting at age twelve (12), they are shown pornography. At school. Children come home embarrassed, ashamed, and complain to their parents. They have difficulties coping with the sexual arousal the viewing of pornography causes them.”
Thank you in advance.
Knut Nygaard
APRIL 11, 2016 @ 10:32 PM
“It’s no shame to return the children – and Chris – you’re right – as I said months ago they would have been reunited … months ago if this was a case done from our CPS. Horne has a job do to get the CPS united in their assessments leading up to an emergency or not.”
It is a tragedy for children that the assessments of the local barnevernet differ widely across the nation. I feel pained by the thought that had I lived in another part of Oslo, my daughter would still be with me. Vestre Aker, the suburb where I live, is probably one of the worst, equal to Naustdal in severity and ignobility.
It really hurts that you and your daughter have been treated this terrible and totally wrong way, Cecilie! With all my heart I believe that you are a good loving mother and that you never deserved this!
I do not understand why there aren`t more people in Norway who get their eyes opened to the totally dysfunctional barnevernet system! The fact that one child can risk being taken away from its parents in some place whereas it would be out the question in another part of Norway goes against any common sense and is unacceptable!
Even Knut confirmed this attrocity by saying that this or that case would never have been handled the same way in his office. Still he argues that barnevernet is almost flawless……
I do hope and pray that the upcoming protests on Saturday will make a huge impact that will enforce a huge change for the better – a change that will bring your daughter back again to you!
The Government is not a part of the legal case in Naustdal, but this is unnecessay – I really hope the CPS in Naustdal and the County Comitee in Sogn og Fjordane understand that. – 5 and possibly 6 unnecessary months are a way … too long. This is not a competition – it’s not about winning – it’s about doing the right decision at a shortest possible time. This is not about Norway, Norwegians and a functionate CPS – it’s about – my guess: a municipal that not often has to do emergency consideratrions and now – when they have – has taken the level a bit way too far off the necessary assessment.
We in Norway have a free press and you see the drama the other case in the minicipal Stange give … to the Norwegian … people. The Bodnariu parents should obviously have gone to the press in November/December and the Family would have been united monts ago had it not been for tthe advice coming from Mrs. Mengele and the chronic CPS haters. The stress this world wide movement for “Something Else” gives will by common Norwegians be seen as an attack on Norway. The way this movement use slogans as North -Korea, Gestapo and Nazi, Communist and Fascist make both the media and the common turn our backs to this “invasion”. If you should have something to say, you can’t invade – you must find someone who is able to communicate inside the circle where changes is discussed and provided.
The critical eye on the CPS has always been there – you who are reading the facebook pages that is a part of this movement know that most of the sharing come from the Norwegian press. If you mangaged to take a step back – take a deep breath – and look into the real funcition of the Norwegian society you will see that the wrongs done for the most part comes to a better solution and if not they have been thouroughly considered in our courts.
Incredible! Mr Nygaard thinks the Bodnariu family has shut up because of advice from ME !
I spoke with them early on when I first read about the case. They told me that their lawyer (or lawyers, one after another) had advised them to shut up, the way the CPS and the courts like.
I gave my opinion, which is – as always – that they would after all be best served by openness, but that the Norwegian press is not to be trusted, and that even if they get some Norwegian newspaper to do an article or two, it will not wake Norway up.
So now you know!
That the Bodnariu family were able to get all the very valuable publicity abroad instead of the usual ill-treatment by Norwegian media which is all that most CPS victims get, is indeed wonderful. Many have tried, many are trying, to get the attention of the world to what is being done to them by our secretive, powerful destructors the CPS. Usually the only outlet is the internet, and that will continue to be the most powerful of all, making sure that mainstream media can no longer decide how the information flow is going to be.
All the demonstrations, all the information around the world which has been BETTER than the usual mainstream media, that would not have happened either without the internet and the flow of real information there. As Onar Aam says: The mainstream media has been dethroned:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page45/page306/page306.html
Those who have followed this blog know – the truth – that every time I have spoken for the parents to go to the press you have been av spokeshen against. That you try to repair this view now is not at all trustworthy.
And…. you again talk of the press in Norway – yes, a press that not share the views of you and some chronic haters, but are of cause able to know what’s a good story and not – and the Bodnariu parents with documents would have opened this drama … for the Norwegian people …. that is the main purpose with a national press. You, Mrs. retired long ago language professor seems to know everything about everything in Norway – I say you don’t – you have your opinions – that’s all.
The children, parents and the families that are helped by the public service done are of cause legal parts in their own cases – not you others. But – done with factual wisdom and in a good communicating manner some cases can alter with the media share ( not facebook – that’s only for emotional support).
Very decent and reasonable families have tried to communicate sensibly with the CPS all through the years. They have not succeeded.
Knut, first Positive feedback: I see a positive way of thinking which states that CPS was wrong to take Bodnariu children. This is a huge progress for your way of thinking. I have to admit, you surprised me. If you could go on with this way of thinking maybe you can recover.
Negative feedback:
1. Free press. I’m laughing till death. :-))) It is completely opposite what we see it from outside of Norway. Your press is under government control as they are financed by government. Your press is not free, it is Communist free. This is the truth. There is non sense to expose BV in Norway government controlled press. You are completely wrong.
2. Worldwide protest. I saw that you and your CPS are extremely furious that BV is worldwide exposed. Even now when you/BV is exposed, you/BV still don’t care about Human Rights violations performed by your beloved CPS.
Here is a link you can read about Human Rights violations of a brand new case:
http://www.tv2.no/a/8215457
So YOU should take a deep breath because without Worldwide protest, you communist press would be still silent.
Do you live in Norway, Mr. Lance or have you got the information about us from the movements propaganda producer … only? You read this movements facebook – have you seen where they get most of their information and knowledge of cases from – the Norwegian press. We are no more communists than you are, Mr. Lance. Yes, we have – I think – a communist party existing yet – it gets around 500 votes total in Norway – then we have the socialist parties that get around 35% together. Have you seen others than me writing on this page. No one in the CPS knows about this actions or follows their movement. I do this most of all because I’m a Christian and that Mr. Prunean is not at spokeshen for the Truth about Norway, Norwegians and a funcitonate public service done by the CPS. Yeah, maybe you and the movement are a bit away and led off to the desert.
I was wrong in my previous comment. You are not recoverable at all. Go on and continue to wash your brain and hate all world which exposed your Human Rights violations. And take a brake, otherwise your heart will blow due to too much hate.
We don’t have to live in Norway to know we see what is happening there and those are the facts they are not made up stories ,did barnevernet confiscated the children ?yes they did . This is why every human being is angry appalled by this that is why people are going to protest .Children belong with their families. What would you say if they would come and take your children ?
“This anti Barnevernet movement is now too much for Norway to manage. Just yesterday Norwegian TV2 covered in detail the confiscation of twins, just hours after they were born! The pretext for this acute intervention was the mother’s developmental delay (mental retardation), which turns out to be a fluke because she was cleared by a psychology evaluation.”
It is VERY reminiscent of the Svanhild Jensen case, some 13-14 years ago. Dagbladet took it up again a few days ago. Svanhild is completely normal, but was “diagnosed” as retarded and the children taken. Let’s see if the Norwegian press is now able to think just a BIT further than they did back then. After an initial uproar, they quickly became CPS supporters, even saying that the case showed us how “dangerous it is for the press to let themselves be used by CPS critics”. Up to now, the media has been stuck in that position. A trouble with the newspaper Dagbladet has been that their staff has been very “social work” oriented, to say the least. Maybe there is a change? It would be a miracle.
I was wrong in my previous comment. You are not recoverable at all. Go on and continue to wash your brain and hate all world which exposed your Human Rights violations. And take a brake, otherwise your heart will blow due to too much hate.
Marianne, my previous comment was for Knut.
I did not know about the case Marianne.
I do hope there is a change. Was not it Dagbladet that has covered the story of the foster mother with the autistic son recently? I do have a feeling that Aftenposten brings some critical articles, but VG is mostly supports CPS?
Barnevernet may be trying to put on a sheep’s skin, to cover up its wolfishness…
Good image, this – –
One can notice that this howling, barking wolf changes his tune – at one stage he says the Bodnarius are violent criminals, when the case shows signs of perhaps going the other way, he says that was his opinion all the time. He wants people on DiT to listen to him, the aim being for him to be able to tell trustful foreigners all about how wonderful everything in Norway is and that he knows it all and can instruct you about the “right” views to have.
That would “put the CPS” right again, conveniently not having to bother about the cries of anguish from their victims, because these victims would not be listened to.
If this is about me and my views you are lying again – first i used much of my efforts to try tell the readers of this blog something about emergency – the Law – and the way we in the municipal CPS Works. After I saw and heard the parents on Romanian TV – saw and heard them singing in a Church in Romania in the middle of all this crisis – reading the Costea version and wondering togheter With you – why? – there must be something hidden under the carpet? – this is not what we do at my office a.s.o. – this have I said for moths back.
Parental violence is not allowed in Norway by Law – either you like it or not, Mrs. Mengele.
Of cause I hope people will consider what I write – I work in this public service and have done so since 1987 – before that I also worked for the best of children and their families – since 1978.
As I have said before – we who are humans and work in a public service try to do our best for the people in our municipal, but people are people and wrongs may occur. Yes. Norway isn’t North Korea and we have a wonderful safe daily life – so far – in Norway. We are now entering the dark age and that is not because of the CPS, but because of the invasion of foreigners who we don’t know who are or where they are coming from.
As long as there are winners and losers in courts you will always find victims – some real victims who need our support for a retry and win.
Another disagreement with the pawn. Norway is entering the Dark Ages because of the CPS.
Very good. Fight CPS, but stay away from the Freemasonic ‘human rights’ promotions. That was my message in todays article..It is absolutely nothing Christian abotht e ‘human rights’, on the contrary, occult evil…
CPS demonstration April 16th in Oslo for Freemasonic ‘Human Rights’
http://www.riksavisen.no/cps-demonstration-april-16th-in-oslo-for-freemasonic-human-rights/
The demonstrators I know in the upcoming 16th demonstrations certainly do NOT have anything to do with “freemasons” or occult nonsense or speculative views.
That kind of ideas often turn up in sections of public debate, but does not become more correct than it was at the beginning, i.e. totally incorrect.
Do not know who the speakers is, but will they promote ‘human rights’?
“All the speakers of this event will promote the freemasonic ‘human rights’ (globalist New World Order law framework), not Norwegian law. Wait and see.”
See the photo
“Masonic symbols of angle bracket and delta at the Human Right Monument in the Paris Champ de Mars, Paris, Ile de France, France, Europe (Photo: commons.wikimedia.org)”
This is the second time I have seen freemasonry connected to this issue, riks. The first time was in a video that said the CPS was influenced by the masons. I am not a fan of freemasonry by any stretch of the imagination, but can you give any written documentation that freemasons are connected to this topic one way or the other? Please don’t use symbols as examples. I would like to see written documentation from the freemasons themselves.
I guess it does not look good for the CPS in Naustdal. They will get a heavy critic anyway. So either they will return the children before April 16th to act as if it was their decision to return the children..But then others can say, that they did it to avoid the demonstrations.
Or they will wait until the court in May and will get even more criticism for keeping these children for so long.
No, it does not look good for them in either way..
Reblogged this on Dumnezeu e în control.
The atrocities the barnevernet are committing is so heartbreaking! Sometimes it just overwhelms me so much that I don`t know what to write. But after reading here today something popped into my mind.
Barnevernet treats children as though they were some kind of mass product which need to be taken on barnevernets` production line for quality inspection. Whenever they detect a slight deviation that just may indicate that the product doesn`t meet their own peculiar set standard, it is immediately taken out of the range and stored in a separate room for further inspection. The storage might take months or even years.
As these highly demanded products are now taken out of range, consumers are impatiently demanding them back. But the company directors tell their consumers that they are under obligation to observe secrecy. Ironically, some employees in the company blame their consumers for not going to their local newspapers with their case. On the other hand, they complain that they are going out on the streets to demonstrate….
The point I want to demonstrate is that children and their parents are being treated like some products or even worse….
Now we have yet another new case that puts shame on barnevernet. Twins were confiscated by barnevernet even before they had any chance showing their parenting skills! The mother was even mislabeled and treated horrendously by barnevernet. But barnevernet covers up as usual and don`t show any accountability. They simply excuse themselves by saying that “mistakes” happen….
After almost 5 months, Bodnarius`finally got their results. Everything points to the fact that Marius and Ruth are normal good and loving parents fully capable of taking good care of their own children!!!!! As a little compensation, they get their youngest child back. I rejoiced as I heard that piece of good news!:-) But, ALL the children should be returned as soon as possible! And not only the Bodnariu children but ALL, and again I say ALL, yes ALL the children who have been taken away unlawfully on false grounds!!!!
I admit that barnevernet has a HUGE job ahead to rectify everything they have messed up with. But it is an obligation that should be demanded of them!
I believe that they are too proud to admit that they have violated human rights. Therefore it is necessary with the international protests this upcoming Saturday in order to put on so much pressure that barnevernet has to change.
I plan to go to Geneva on Saturday to join the protests there. It feels very weird for me, as an emigrated Norwegian to protest against Norway. I don`t like to put shame on the country I come from. When our kids were little, we used to go and celebrate the Norwegian national day in Bern, waving Norwegian flags together with other Norwegians. … So yes, it feels weird…. But my heart cries out for all these children and parents who have been mistreated. It could have been me… It could have been anybody…. I hope and pray that this demonstration will finally bring justice!
Hildi, I understand that a Norwegian can feel strange about demonstrating against Norway. But I think it shows love for your old country. It shows that you are not indifferent to how it conducts itself, how it treats its citizens, even if you are not here and it does not affect you personally. I shows a concern which is needed if we are to develop and maintain our societies as worthy. One cares for one’s country, that it should be something that one can love, not blush over.
Marianne, you are so right! You gave me a new perspective on it which I needed to hear:-) Now I feel more like going to Geneva to demonstrate. Thank you, Marianne!
“..children and their parents are being treated like some products or even worse….
Great analogy, Hildi.
Hildi: “Ironically, some employees in the company blame their consumers for not going to their local newspapers with their case. On the other hand, they complain that they are going out on the streets to demonstrate….”
The CPS also complains if a family DOES get its story into the papers. They hold it to be harmful to the children! (I have not yet met a child who is harmed by people getting to know that its parents love it and are fighting for it.)
Furthermore, most papers will not write about CPS cases at all, EVEN if the family offers up all the documents in the case, their own AND the CPS documents, AND the court verdicts. And the newspapers routinely take the authorities’ side if a verdict has gone against the family.
There are heaps of people who have tried going to the mainstream media over the years. I have very often had people call me or write to me, wanting me to help them in their case (unfortunately they have no idea that it is not simply a matter of showing that the case has been wrongly handled by the CPS), and telling me that if the CPS does not back down now, they will go to the press. I have always said to them, “Yes, try that, but do not put your faith in what the mainstream press will do. Most people are very disappointed when they are either turned down outright, or the case is written about in such a way that the CPS is portrayed as right after all.”
Hi Marianne,
As I haven’t read the article in the newspaper about Vibeke, is it “written about in such a way that the CPS is portrayed as right after all?”
I haven’t read it either, it is possibly not a new one he means, I have not seen it in a search on a motor which captures new newspaper articles and a bit more. You can try yourself: mylder.no and then you write e.g.
barnevern*
in the white window and press “Søk”. The star is in order also to capture longer words, like
barnevernet (the child protection – definite form)
barnevernsaker (CPS cases)
and so on.
I don’t know which local newspaper Vibeke’s story would be in, possibly Tønsbergs Blad? There are other papers too not too far away. Perhaps Vibeke herself could answer if she sees this. There is no reply on her phone just now; I tried.
Marianne it was Dagbladet, it is unfortunatelly not for free
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/04/11/nyheter/pluss/barnevernet/innenriks/barnevern/43823472/?share=9f4f8b6f14eb04b0f8b7778f547ddcfa
I’ve emailed Vibeke and asked her about this. The pawn is probably using outdated info again.
A question, Marianne:
Since the media seems to be controlled on this subject, is the mainstream press run by the government as one of the commentators here has said? Also, are there many advertisements in the media placed by people who are connected to the government? A general observation would satisfy me on this last question.
And while I’m asking questions, I have one more that’s a bit specific.
On the day the four older Bodnariu children were taken, one story stated that Ruth was worried when the girls were an hour late returning from school. If this is true, how were the girls supposed to get home? Did they live close enough to the school to walk home or were they supposed to ride a bus home?
Thank you for any information you can give me.
Pavla,
Is the article in the Dagbladet new or is it an old article? If it is new, do you know anything about the content?
Thanks for any info you are able to share.
Chris, the article is new from this week. I hope we will get to read the full version and just the first 3 lines 🙂
Regarding the Bodnariu girls, I think that they were going by the bus and the director was also going by the bus, but I might be wrong. I dont know how far it is, I suppose, they lived just outside Naustdal and went to the school in Naustdal.?
Our children (7 and 9) can play outside unsupervised. My son (9) has quite a lot of freedom, going to school by himself, visiting friends, doing small groceries etc.
My daughter is younger, but even she can play outside the house, or go to the playground with her friend which is like 300 m.
In my neighborhood I see kids as young as 4,5 playing outside the house. I think that might be very different from the US?
Newspapers in Norway ain’t run by the government – they are run in the same way as in Hot Springs I suppose – here a link to Dagbladet net – today – and Aftenposten – scroll down and you find maybe some of the same as in the USA today
http://www.dagbladet.no/ Here you among others find the story of Svanhild Mrs. M mentioned in a comment – found menally retarded and now – ten years later – what is here situation regarding family and the CPS – I think – this is a story just for they who pay for news.
http://www.aftenposten.no/ The advertisment in these papers are just like yours – made by the income system and not for the government. It’s a free press.
The Bodnariu family live here
http://www.1881.no/elektriker/elektriker-sogn-og-fjordane/elektriker-naustdal/marius-bodnariu_103099693S0/kart/
and the children take the school bus or must be driven be someone in the family – I suppose. There are 2700 inhabitants in Naustdal – they have much space and nature between them.
http://www.1881.no/elektriker/elektriker-sogn-og-fjordane/elektriker-naustdal/marius-bodnariu_103099693S0/kart/
This is a better map of the home of the Bodnariu family. I think the family are living in the house in the turn and Ruth’s grandparents in the end. The road stretching out – 611 – is the main road to school in one or the other direction.
http://180kart.no/?w=Redal%2c+6817+NAUSTDAL%2c+NO&mapTypeId=roadmap&dn=Marius+Bodnariu
Chris’s questions (APRIL 12, 2016 @ 4:17 PM):
I don’t know how far the school is from the Bodnariu home. In some country places there is a school bus, if necessary because of great distances. Mostly, children are encouraged to walk (and to be a lot outside anyway, playing, roaming in the forests), because it is healthy exercise and healthy mentally.
It never used to be a problem here to let children be out of doors alone, not in towns and cities either. Norway has been very safe in that way. Not like America at all, where one has to drive/esort children to their friends’ place.
The press: There are lots and lots of newspapers in Norway, some tiny and very local. Most papers receive a subsidy in the form of “press support” from the state. That is the case for the two Christian papers Dagen and Vårt Land, as far as I know (while the weekly Norge IDAG does not have press support). So they are wary about crossing the state too obviously. They draw well-pazid advertisements paid by the state, yes, with all sorts of official information, but advertisements from private business is very important too, and private business does not want radical debate of society to dominate, because that alienates the general, docile public, which is well content with things the way they are. They want debate, but only of the type they are used to, and not about things they want to forget and see no solution to, like the treatment of people in mental hospitals. They prefer “good news”, of course. Another problem is that most media people have been schooled in the same, pretty uniform, official philosophy and societal views. The large paper Aftenposten is the most cowardly paper I can think of.
But the article about Vibeke is quite new, of 11 April! Probably Dagbladet now wants to try an “oppositional series”, sne see whether that can boost their sales numbers. All the papers have considerably reduced sales since the explosion of social media on the internet. And now the number of people who are upset over the CPS may have become so large that they have to be treated differently from the scandalous way the media has done for years? That this may be so, was observed by a very good writer on the Forum Redd Våre Barn (Rescue Our Children), who just wrote:
“On facebook we are now urged to buy Dagbladet and Aftenbladet to read about Barnevern. Barnevern victims, too, have now become a relevant group of newspaper buyers.”
– – children are encouraged to walk to school – I should have written “walk or bike”
Thank you for the information Marianne and Pavla. It has been very helpful.
A question for anyone out there who knows: How were the Bodnariu children to get home from school on the day they were taken and is that how Ruth was alerted as that something was wrong…waiting and not seeing her girls?
Thanks to the BBC, I now have a good answer to my question.
Marianne;I was referring to Knut when I wrote this statement. He asked why the Bodnarius didn’t go and tell their case to Norwegian newspapers. On the other hand he doesn’t seem to be fond of the protests…. Well, I guess he is trying with all he has left to save barnevernets good reputation… But there has come so much bad out now even in the Norwegian media about barnevernet that I think even people in Norway are starting to realize that there is something sinister about this organisation which is supposed to protect children.
The situation is as it’s always been in Norway – in the fine weather and the spring/summer feeling – that the Norwegian media tell stories – the latest one as a pretext to the coming session in the County Comitee where the lawyer use the media and comment herself. This marching in the spirit of Martin Luther King a.s.o. is way above any interest. King had a cause – we all know that the CPS is a internal public service that have some cases where the court session give victims – this is legal cases between legal parts. You – and anyone have opinions. but you are not a part of anything that has influence of any case and the internal affairs in the kingdom of Norway.
Knut, you honestly think international pressure does not matter? It may not matter to you or the local office, but it will matter to the Norway government who will eventually bring the hammer down on BV.
Dere i Norge er stort sett enige om at barnevern det er en offentlig tjeneste som vi må ha. De i utlandet tror – faktisk – at vi som nasjon er en en stat next to Nord Korea. Skal en som bevegelse ha innflytelse, så må en sørge for å ha talspersoner som gjør at en kommer innenfor kommunikasjonssirkelen – der det er mulig å ha innflytelse – ellers blir dette bare ei surregruppe utenfor. Jeg er enig i at barnevernet vokser i kvalitet på å ha kritisk saklighet rettet mot seg, men notoriske barnevernhatere er noe helt annet. I honestly don’t think so. A movement matter if it have spokesmen who have a communication skill that bring it inside the circle. You have built the “truth” upon notoric cps haters like Mrs. Mengele. You have made an impression of Norway next to North Korea. Of cause the Norwegian cps like the cps in your own backyard are open to criticism that have some kind of quality. It’s not enough to spend 66.6 hours in Norway if you are unable to spokespersons able to communcate.
The pawn has managed to say something new.
When all else fails, blame it on the weather.
I’m grieved over this situation in Norway, and think the system is in grave error. That said, may I encourage each of us to speak the truth in love, especially since many of us profess to follow Christ? We’re in obvious disagreement, but there’s a right way and a wrong way to proceed. Specifically, Chris, could you please start by using Knut’s name, and not calling names? And Knut, be careful not to let love of nation win over love of Christ. Instead of simply being offended and writing off international efforts, why not work toward a righteous system yourself, as you know more of the internal process? You can also pray that God will use both national and international influence for good changes for Norway, and protect Norway from harmful changes…
May Christ be honored by how we speak and act.
I appreciate your request, Nicole.
If you have been watching this blog long, you will have noticed that I have toned down my names for Knut of late. I did get convicted over calling him “The Magma Monster,” which developed from the “man in the magma,” which developed from something like “the digger of a deep hole.”
I will look to Jesus on this issue.
Here are his words:
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell? – Matthew 23
I will continue to call Knut a pawn because that is what he is, just like Jesus called the Pharisees “serpents and vipers” because that’s what they were.
Riks’s linked article finishes with this sentence:
“Norway do have the laws. We do not need ‘human rights’. We just need someone who promote and uphold Norwegian law. That’s all.”
After apparently criticizing Barnevernet, you make this conflicting statement. Who is the “someone” who will promote and uphold these wonderful Norwegian laws you speak of? ……………………………………waiting……………………………………………………. ……………………………………………………………………….still waiting…………………………………………………………………………………waiting…………………………………………………………………….(sound of crickets)…………………………………………………………………………waiting……………………………………(more cricket sounds)……………………………………….done waiting
Why have I left this comment here? Because the pawn just made this “statement:”
“…you are not a part of anything that has influence of any case and the internal affairs in the kingdom of Norway.”
The “kingdom” of Norway? It sounds a bit egotistical particularly in context. We have egotistical people in America but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call it the “kingdom of America.” I am aware that the present Sovereign is King Harald V so maybe the term is applicable. That nothing outside your internal affairs can move you is an entire different animal. It is hubris pure and simple.
Riks writes:
“We do have a NATIONAL solution to the evils. The Norwegian Constitution, the law overriding any other law, §§ 102 and 104.”
Overriding any other law?
Thus, after claiming Christianity, both Riks and the pawn, put Norway’s “law” and “internal affairs” above all else.
These are the highest laws for Bible believers:
35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” -Matthew 22
It is evident that the most important laws, those that were once revered in Norway, are now almost extinct there and no matter what words on a piece of paper say people have taken the law into their own hands.
And the Freemasonic ‘Human Rights’ is not only words on paper Chris? Why pushing that, and not pushing the superior Law for Norway, that is already forbidding this practise from CPS (unless in criminal cases)?
Everybody study the ‘Human Rights’ background know they are coming from the French Revolution, the secularisation and some even say satanification of the State.
I assure you the Norwegian Constitution from 1814 (Europe’s oldest) is VERY much influenced by Christian principles of co-habitation. It is the superior law for all other laws in Norway.. We are many Christians who are in favour of ruling and be judged by ourselves, not from Brussels, Strasbourgh, Haag, Tel Aviv or New York.. Do you have anything against that we should be a sovereign State?
I am just questioning, why is so many pushing the international legal framework before the national.? Are all in this CPS grasroot movement New World Order agenture by now? Is it possible to be against CPS and still national, or must all be internationalists – with the international legal framework symphaties ? Where in the Bible does it say that globalism is Gods preferred system ?
Instead isn’t the Bible speaking of putting borders of habitation (Acts kap. 17.26-27). (Numbers 23:9).Ezra 9:12) (Deuteronomy 7:3) (1. Mos. 10.1-5) ?
My research shows that the internationalism and globalism without borders is freemasonic, and many is mislead of pushing and promoting the same, is pushing is the Anti-Christ system, not Gods system..
From our article above:
“Thus spoke the Spanish masonic Brother Lozano at the masonic congress in Rome in 1914:
«We declare the world republic, the abolition of borders, the existence of only one law: Human Rights, as our esteemed ancestors preached during the great revolution.»
“Masonry, FORMING ONE GREAT PEOPLE OVER THE WHOLE GLOBE, and marching under the banner of charity and benevolence, preserves that religious feeling, strengthens it, extends it in its purity and simplicity.”
~Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma, p. 138
Anybody believing this creation of ONE GREAT PEOPLE (globalisation) is Christian, is wrong, It is the anti-Christ system staring us straight in the face. We do not need multiculturalism (as in the Days of Noah/Lot) to be One in Christ…
Riks,
“And the Freemasonic ‘Human Rights’ is not only words on paper Chris?”
They are but you have still not connected any current freemason commentary to this issue. I repeat and more strongly this time, I do not like freemasonry. I am only after the truth.
“I am just questioning, why is so many pushing the international legal framework before the national.? Are all in this CPS grasroot movement New World Order agenture by now?”
There is no one who believes in a nation’s Sovereignty more than me. I want the United Nations out of my business. What you are doing here is connecting this protest to a movement against sovereignty. This is ludicrous.
“Anybody believing this creation of ONE GREAT PEOPLE (globalisation) is Christian, is wrong,”
I agree with you here, riks. However, I don’t see how this statement has anything to do with the protest against Barnevernet.
The reason the world is involved in this “human trafficking” is that very little is getting done in Norway to stop it.
U.S. Attorney spends 66.6 hours in Norway. Here are some of his impressions:
Reblogged this on predicare biblica.
Reblogged this on B a r z i l a i – e n – D a n (Un Barzilai izvorât din Dan).
Chris, a propos a discussion above about law: The European Convention on Human Rights is actually part of Norwegian law, and it takes precedence over all other Norwegian law, including over the part known as the constitution (Grunnloven – literally “The Basic Law”), which in turn takes precedence over the rest – parliament cannot pass ordinary laws which conflict with either of those two. The ECHR has been added to and amplified, in the form of Protocols. The ECHR is administrated by the Council of Europe (nothing to do with the European Union). The Norwegian constitution has been revised quite a bit also, but it requires a larger majority in Parliament and a longer procedure to do so than ordinary law-making. Our constitution stems from 1814; our national day the 17 May celebrates that the constitution was completed on that day.
A point which foreigners very often do not understand is possible, is this: In the constitution we have division of powers, with the king selecting his government and the government, the executors of policy, having real power to do so. But that was all done away with in 1884, when, after a high-profiled fight, Parliament emerged as the winners. Since then, the government cannot rule withouth the running consent of Parliament, and have to leave if a majority in Parliament goes against it. So the govrnment is in practice appointed by Parliament. The person of the Sovereign has of course no power whatsoever, the King/Queen has a position absolutely different from that of an American president, has no political function. The part of our constitution which says anything contrary to this is still there on paper, but cannot be invoked.
About parliament having power over the government: It is what is called “parliamentarism”. Britain has the same; parliamentarism was developed there. Several monarchies and also several republics have parliamentarism.
Thank you very much, Marianne.
I thought that the King was only a figurehead.
If “The European Convention on Human Rights is actually part of Norwegian law, and it takes precedence over all other Norwegian law, including over the part known as the constitution (Grunnloven – literally “The Basic Law”)”
then why doesn’t Barnevernet have to listen to the ECHR’s decisions regarding this issue?
The European Convention on Human Rights is incorporated in Norwegian law, but it is not above the Norwegian Constitution. I think most law professors would put it next to the Constitution, but not above.
I understand that decisions from the ECHR should carry “heavy weight” in Norwegian law. More on this subject (unfortunately in Norwegian):
Click to access Den-rettslige-betydningen-av-avgjørelser-fra-menneskerettslige-konvensjonsorganer1.pdf
You may be right, Cecilie, but I don’t think it is quite like that. Norwegian law is “presumed” to be in agreement with the Convention, meaning that the Convention really has precedence. Our jurists would be troubled if any of it were found to be in clear violation of human rights. Parliament sometimes passes legislation which is suspected of being in violation, they all just hope that nobody will run a case in Strasbourg against Norway which will prove clearly that it is. If forced to change anything, they will try to get around it by making a minimal change which perhaps does not really change that which needs to be changed.
Chris: “why doesn’t Barnevernet have to listen to the ECHR’s decisions regarding this issue?”
The Human Rights Court works in a special way. They can only find that a country has violated human rights, and either declare that the finding of a violation is sufficient satisfaction (in other words shaming the state), or order the state to pay compensation. These compensations are usually very low. The state pays it and then does nothing more. If the violation has happened because the national legislation collides with something in human rights, then the state is supposed to change its legislation too. But the ECHR is entered into by sovereign states, and the only way the Court can have any influence, is to try to make the states toe the line voluntarily. No state is going to accept force from the Court in Strasbourg. The Court does not possess a police force or any other way to use power.
So the Human rights Court cannot order a state to hand back a child to its parents, and in fact neither Norway nor Sweden have ever given back children taken by the CPS.
Thank you for this explanation, Marianne.
I wonder why the organization exists when it does almost nothing.
At the same time, I don’t want someone outside of my country telling me what to do. It is up to each country to create and uphold good laws. Unfortunately, we live in a broken and sinful world. This is the Biblical worldview. This worldview also includes a story about a good Samaritan who made a difference. The Bible says “he felt compassion,” something that is sorely lacking in much of Norway’s barnevernet.
Chris:
(about the Strasbourg court) “I wonder why the organization exists when it does almost nothing.”
“At the same time, I don’t want someone outside of my country telling me what to do. It is up to each country to create and uphold good laws.”
I actually disagree with you on both counts, Chris. On the first: Because the Court’s moral influence does after all do some good, especially in the long run, and we would be much worse off without it. Legislation development in the LONGER perspective is very important. And a lot of law has to be looking ahead, to provide some safety if such and such a situation should develop. An obvious example is to provide laws of what is permitted in war, and it has to be done in peacetime. The whole point of the Council of Europe is that there the countries criticise each other all the time, and it tends in the long run to have an impact. Criticism is what drives development forwards.
So I also disagree strongly about your second point. It is sensible to look around internationally, to learn from it. And while in normal conditions nobody has the power to decide what a country should do, it is just hidebound not to acquaint yourself with outsiders’ thoughts about what you should do. It is foreign countries that are trying to tell Norway what do do with their Barnevern, and thank you very much for that. Look at what Jan Simonsen (who has been a parliamentary member) says here:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page329/page329.html
“Last year, this case was taken up by Parliament in the Czech Republic, which passed a resolution about what Norwegian child protection ought to be like. It was very good and Norwegian parliamentary representatives should indeed just copy it!”
Another similar organisation to the European Court of Human Rights is the International Commission of Jurists. I don’t know what they are up to these last years, but I have read a number of their reports from earlier. They were extremely active and useful, they have investigated all sorts of things around the whole world, informing both the communities concerned and lawyers in all sorts of countries – e.g. whether water rights were being violated in some place in South Asia, what was really going on in the racial unrest in Fiji, whether such-and-such a development in the law in France was consistent with the needs of the population in such-and-such districts. International, “fresh” eyes are very necessary; we cannot produce every good idea ourselves.
I appreciate your comments, Marianne.
“Legislation development in the LONGER perspective is very important. And a lot of law has to be looking ahead, to provide some safety if such and such a situation should develop. An obvious example is to provide laws of what is permitted in war, and it has to be done in peacetime. The whole point of the Council of Europe is that there the countries criticise each other all the time, and it tends in the long run to have an impact. Criticism is what drives development forwards.”
I agree with you that sometimes such a system is needed. I think of the tribunals after WWII were necessary. At that time, “War crimes” and “Crimes against humanity” were punished by death in some cases and most of the world agreed at the time that justice was done.
Then there was the trial of Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu. I have read that “Before the legal proceedings began, Stănculescu had already selected the spot where the execution would take place—along one side of the wall in the barracks’ square.”
At least they got a trial (of sorts), but after being responsible for 60,000 or so murders, there was no major international backlash, that I’m aware of, when they were shot to death.
The difference in these two cases is that one was handled internationally and one was handled internally.
Times have changed. Things are not as “black and white” globally as they were in 1989. I wonder how both of these cases would be handled today.
The same decisions might be made. I don’t know.
“Legislation development in the LONGER perspective is very important.”
What if the organization creating the legislation becomes corrupt?
This is where this subject becomes a double edged sword. How much power should an organization outside of a country have over a country? In the case of the WWII tribunals, one would argue that some “global authority” should have complete control. I would think post WWII Germany was in no practical position to have its own trials.
Then there is the other side of this sword. What if Hitler had been successful? His worldwide courts would have killed many more millions.
Many Bible believers think that an evil man will eventually appear on the world scene. He will make Hitler look like a boy scout (I’m exaggerating a bit here). He will, unlike Hitler, be successful. A worldwide system controlling the buying and selling of goods will be instituted. Things will get very ugly.
Those who believe this are very wary of giving up national sovereignty. Look at all of the pressure the U.N. has put on little Israel. I don’t think Israel is perfect by any means, but why this?:
“A low point at the UN was the passage of the Arab and Soviet-sponsored United Nations resolution of November 10, 1975 which declared Zionism a “form of racism and racial discrimination.” The highly politicized resolution was aimed at denying Israel its political legitimacy by attacking its moral basis for existence. The resolution was finally repealed on December 16, 1991.”
One can find the article here:
http://www.adl.org/israel-international/un-international-organizations/c/israel-un-2013.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#.VxCZbPkrLIU
Israel never knows if the UN wants it gone or helped and, compared to other countries, resolutions against it are not proportionate.
I know I have digressed a bit, but it has been for a purpose. The world as a whole, in my opinion, is going the wrong way when it comes to human rights. Some countries are better than others at protecting them. In some, like North Korea, there are no human rights. In others, like the U.S., we have gone so far to protect “human rights” that we allow Russian jets to blatantly put the lives of our seamen at risk.
What is the answer to such threats? Diplomacy doesn’t appear to be working. What should we do in such cases? Frankly, I don’t know but someone better figure it out or WWIII is just around the corner when situations like this continue.
So, back to your comments.
I do understand why you disagree with me and, in this case, I think that I can meet you half way. You know much more about the ECHR than I do and I trust you. That it has done some good is a good thing. The question remains: “How much power should it be given?” I would like for them to have the power to rid us of the psycobabble in Norway. “At what cost would they gain this power?” is my question.
“So I also disagree strongly about your second point. It is sensible to look around internationally, to learn from it. And while in normal conditions nobody has the power to decide what a country should do, it is just hidebound not to acquaint yourself with outsiders’ thoughts about what you should do. It is foreign countries that are trying to tell Norway what do do with their Barnevern, and thank you very much for that.”
Most of the successful international pressure has come from foreign countries as you have stated. It hasn’t come from governments or international bodies in this instance. The successful pressure has come from many individuals who believe this is a human rights violation. If this protest was organized by some entity that I knew little about or an organization like the U.N., I would have to have a separate protest.
I think you missed most of my second point. This is a broken and sinful world. Christians should not expect that governments will be just as God is just. When governments and human rights councils fail, individuals should feel compassion as did the good Samaritan. This is what I think has happened in this effort thus far. Therefore, I can continue to be a part of it.
I am happy that the Czech president has spoken in very strong condemnation against Barnevernet. I am happy that the Czech National Assembly passed a resolution. I think the Czech press, president, and National Assembly have acted correctly on this issue. Give these three some credit for their actions, but it was the people of Czechoslovakia who were responsible for actions taken, in my opinion. I wish the people in the U.S. were as educated on this issue as the Czechs.
An aside…
The White House said it was “regrettable” that the trial of Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu had not been held in public.
Knut wrote; We don’t know when we open a childs situation wheter this is bird or fish. We conclude around 50% of our investigations with case closed.
Yes, I know that you are going around fishing and hunting trying to get as many fish on your hook and shoot as many birds as possible…. It just shows how inhumane you act, treating precious humans as though they were animals…
This is a great news. The parents of the twins, that were removed 6 months ago, because of the mother diagnosis 11 years ago, will be returned to the parents! First the mother and the children will stay in mothers and children home though. I think this is a breakthrough? I mean they just had county committee today and the decision is already taken. Probably because the original accusation about the mothers mental retardation, was wrong as confirmed by two experts?.
http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/8222722/
Yes, that sounds good indeed.
Then, let us hope that they manage to keep an open search-light on the “mother-and-child” home all the time. They are CPS observation posts, normally not of any help to mothers.
Marianne, I hope the stay in mother and children home will be very short and then they will be released and enjoy their family life together.
When I read it, this is a very similar story to the one of the Slovak-Norwegian couple and their daughter. Daughter was taking as a baby last year, because mother was a foster child herself and is deaf. They asked Slovak grandmother to come to help. CPS wanted them to move to the mother and child home, which they refused. It would mean a lot of hassle for the father as well. At the end CPS was observing eye contact by putting the baby in a room full of lights and filming if the baby looks at the parents. Well she did not, she looked everywhere else. This was a reason to remove the baby. They won her back few weeks ago in county committee but she is still not at home. CPS has appealed. The baby was taken as 2 months old and is after more than a year not returned yet. The parents and the grandmother were so happy when county committee decided, that the daughter will be returned. They thought she will be returned immediately.
Previously, the CPS did not have the right to go to the courts if the County Committee (CC) went against them. Only the family had the right to bring the case to the courts, if the CC had gone against them.
When that was changed, so that the CC too could bring a case to the courts, everybody knew that the CPS would do so with just about every case which they did not win in the CC. And that is what has happened.
Is it lawful to take a child away from a mother on such grounds like if she has been a foster child herself or has a disability? I believe that it is discriminating. And the way they observed the baby`s eye-contact sounds dubious. Then comes all this waiting and uncertainty…. This barnevernet really makes life difficult for many people….
Marianne, so lets say the parents win their child back at county committee or in the court. Sometimes the children are returned intermediately and sometimes CPS has a stay order and appeals the decision and meanwhile the children are still staying with the foster parents? Then either CPS looses and the child has to be returned or they win and the child will stay in foster care..parents can appeal again I guess
I find it weird, that county committee would accept the appeal of CPS if they decided in the favor of the parents just few weeks before. It certainly can not be that situation has changed so dramatically, or that CPS has new evidence for that decision?
Hildi, I also dont understand it. It seems that CPS is very much afraid of the parental sensibilities. I am also thinking about what is happening to all these disabled parents?. The grandmother from Slovakia came to help. Somehow CPS thinks that children will prosper after being placed at complete strangers. No logic in that..
parental sensibilities should be lack of parental abilities or insufficient care.
Thanks for the info, ladies.
“I find it weird, that county committee would accept the appeal of CPS if they decided in the favor of the parents just few weeks before. It certainly can not be that situation has changed so dramatically, or that CPS has new evidence for that decision?”
I also find it weird, Pavla. It makes no sense whatsoever. Just another day at the Barnevernet.
Pavla: “I find it weird, that county committee would accept the appeal of CPS if they decided in the favor of the parents just few weeks before. It certainly can not be that situation has changed so dramatically, or that CPS has new evidence for that decision?”
No, the “appeal” goes to the court, to the lowest court instance, the district court, first. And the court is bound to run the case (but are not bound to grant the CPS a stay order, although they often do).
It is not technically an “appeal”, because the County Committee is not part of the court system. Nobody “appeals” a County Committee decision, one “brings the case to the court system”.
Pavla: “It seems that CPS is very much afraid of the parental sensibilities.”
I’d say no, they are not afraid of the parents, they can stigmatise them. They are afraid of the general public and peripherally the press, afraid that too much of the realities will get out.
Hildi: “Is it lawful to take a child away from a mother on such grounds like if she has been a foster child herself or has a disability? I believe that it is discriminating. And the way they observed the baby`s eye-contact sounds dubious. Then comes all this waiting and uncertainty…. This barnevernet really makes life difficult for many people….”
All of it is screwy psychobabble, some from “attachment theory”, some from other speculations, mostly of a primitive, mechanical-behavioristic way of “predicting future care failure”. For instance: They “predict” that people who have themselves experienced care failure (and have “had to” be taken into public care), deterministically continue to act in the same way as their parents, so they too will saddle their children with care failure.
Look around you, at all the babblers who write, and believe, that: “You cannot love others if you have not experienced love yourself.” It is not a fact, because these determinists do not recognise inherent, biological nature’s incredibly great part in forming personality. And they do not recognise the complexity of the brain and creative thinking – free will, if you like. They believe we are mechanical dolls.
I am very glad of the experience I had of studying some social anthropology in New Zealand. Not because it was sensibly based, quite the contrary: it was incredibly behavioristic. But I later learned a lot about behaviorism (I lectured on it to my linguistics students, too, for a number of years), and then I could easily go back to a lot of literature I knew already and study it again from a different perspective: to trace the way of thinking of the scholars who had then ruled the field (the same thinking still permeates much social work and social science). Please read:
Aage Simonsen: Norwegian child protection hits immigrants hard
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7035
The sections about “risk indicators” and “observation, tests and prognoses” will tell you a lot. (It is not a long article.)
Yes! That`s great news! But I hope barnevernet also will take some lessons from it in the future not to blindly go and grab newborn babies out of their mother`s arms. They could have thought about offering help, if needed, from the beginning instead of making these parents and their twins go through such trauma.
I recently went with my husband and our youngest daughter fishing on a fish farm. There were certain fishing rules one had to follow in order to not make the fish suffer.Sometimes animals are treated better than humans…. Barnevernet causes so much suffering when they overreact and take instead of thinking about other solutions first.
Hildi I agree. But I am not sure whether CPS will admit they they made a huge mistakes. The most self criticism from CPS that I have heard was..We are doing a good job, but we can always get better.
Anyway I would love to know, whether CPS knew about these new psychological reports proving that mother is not mentally retarded. I can not find anything about it in the article. I miss the willingness of CPS to correct their errors. It is the same with the Bodnariu family. Knut told us, its not about winning, unfortunately I have a feeling, that it is about winning for the CPS. It is about defending their opinion even though the original decision is wrong. That is scary. CPS needs people who have a lots of knowledge and empathy.
I really hope this is a breakthrough and now the whole CPS will get a thorough check. If you read the opinions under the FB articles , they are very critical. These are Norwegians and it seems they are not happy with the CPS.