Long before the Romanians were fighting the Norwegian CPS, the Czechs were veterans in this fight against Barnevernet. One of these activists is Jitka Fialova and she has a motivating message for Norway:
Hi,
I am Jitka Fialová, a mother of three and one of the admins on the page Norway, give us back the children you stole.
I joined the stop barnevernet movement about a year ago when I was informed about the story of Eva Michalaková. In this case, her 2 children were taken by Barnevernet after false accusations and separated not only from their mother and father but also from all other relatives, their language, their culture and from each other.
I found out that Children’s rights in Norway are not valued like I would expect in this reportedly most democratic country in the world. An arrested criminal has far better legal protection than small children who are being taken away from their families without any provocation and placed with total strangers. Criminals can be held only a few hours in custody to be evaluated by an experienced police lawyer. A small acutely replaced child may have to wait several months for a careful evaluation of whether the conditions for snatching him or her were met!
With my engagement in this issue I want to prove that an Eastern country like the Czech republic can be more civilized than Norway because we do care about our families.
So please join demonstrations around the world on April 16th to stop barnevernet.
My friends in Norway, please go to Oslo, Stryn, Bergen or any other city where a protest is scheduled to join the fight against Barnevernet!
Delight in Truth 
Very good and argumentative discourse! As I said, if Norway does not stop Barnevernet immediately and does not rebuild a more humane CPS that would value family, not breaking families apart for trivial reasons, very soon the number of people who will constantly criticize Norwegian CPS will exceed the population of Norway!
Med Barnevernet er Norge på nedtur:
http://armoniamagazineusa.com/2016/03/03/med-barnevernet-er-norge-pa-nedtur/
We can live with that, but be sure to be well informed before you think you know thw truth.
NOVA have done a comparison of the Nordic countries up to 2010 – f.i. the trends for the taking in care part:
Denmark: The number has varied a lot through the 1990′ – 2000′, In 1990 it was around 11 of 1000 children – a high number in Nordic context – then the number sank and in 1996 was around 9 – so came a raise and in 2001 Denmark was back to around 11 – in the years thereafter around 10.
Finland: During the 1990 Finland had economic problems. The welfare state had harder times and there were less economy to offer services. This gave problems to a lot of families and the number of children living under the UN standard as poor was trippled. This also trippled the number of children given help from the CPS. Also the number of children taken into care has increased since the middle of the 1990′. The number rose from around 7 to around 9. The raise for teenagers were even higher. The number of instittutions and professional forsterhomes rose indicating that the children taken in care had difficult behaviour. It is also possible that Finland had a problem with the recruitment of general fosterparents.
Iceland: Have a tradition that familes and relatives help eachother when needed. This is also done in the CPS, Difficult children were sent to farms during the summer. It’s first in the last decades the CPS has been professionalised legally and institutionally, In 2006 there was registered 800 placements outside the home – that was around 10 of 1000 children,
Norway: From 2000 there has been an increase from 6,9 in 2002 to 7,6 in 2006. SSB ( our national statistics) give the number 7,9 for 2008. Teenagers are behind half of the placements.
Sweden: In 1995 the number was around 7,8 of 1000 children – in 2004 increased to around 9,1, 59% av all placements were done for teenagers.
LInk: Barnevern i de nordiske landene – HiOA
And the CPS’s in Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium. France, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Romania, Moldovia, Russia, Hungary, Phonix a,s,o.
News for you and everybody:
Christ is risen!
No figures/statistics available… but IT IS TRUE!
IT IS GREAT NEWS, agnes!!!
Best News Ever!!!
Thank you for using your talent to help get the truth out about Barnevernet, Jitka Fialová.
Easter Sunday:
Since today is in memory that Christ has risen, let us be thankful and take heart – for help is sorely needed.
Amen, Marianne.
May Christ’s resurrection power be given us as we expose and educate others about these evils. I am thankful for God’s mercy. Without it I would be lost. I am speaking of His mercy on my soul as I am in a prison of sorts, this world. It is not my home. Christ is the answer to the world’s problems. Sadly, the world is becoming less Christian and more ungodly. It is no surprise as Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24. Things will get very bad on earth before He returns again.
Reblogged this on Fiindca atat de mult a iubit Dumnezeu lumea, ca a dat pe singurul Lui Fiu, pentru ca oricine crede in El sa nu piara, ci sa aibe viata vesnica. Ioan 3:16..
Song about Christ: “You are my goal, you are my strenght, you are my passion, you are everything”:
http://armoniamagazineusa.com/2014/11/16/interview-with-german-christian-singer-florence-joy-enns/
Christ has risen!
Octavian,
Amen, my brother.
Our most well-known (and loveliest) Easter morning hymn:
I have no idea what they are saying, Marianne, but is sounds beautiful.
Text:
http://www.barnesanger.com/paskemorgen-slukker-sorgen-sangtekst/
First, second and fourth verses:
On Easter morning the sorrow is quenched,
The sorrow is quenched for all time;
It has given us the light and life,
the light and life in the gentle morning.
(1st and 2nd line repeated.)
The saviour has risen,
has risen in the early morning!
Hell is crying, heaven is joyful,
Heaven expresses its joy in a new song of praise.
(First and second line repeated.)
Paid for is the transgression, dead is death,
dead is death like the payment for sin!
Now the grave lies in the middle of God’s garden,
in the middle of God’s garden in the hand/power of Jesus.
(1st and 2nd line repeated.)
The hymn is Danish (too):
The text is by Danish Nikolaj Grundtvig, who was extremely influential in Dano-Norwegian Lutheran consciousness (Norway was united with Denmark for 400 years, until 1814, when we were given to Sweden):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._F._S._Grundtvig
The tune is by Norwegian Ludvig Lindeman:
http://liturgi.info/Påskemorgen_slukker_sorgen_(LH490)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludvig_Mathias_Lindeman
Thanks, Marianne.
It is a song about our redemption and wonderfully written.
Off the subject…I grew up in a Lutheran Church here in America (The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod). The LCMS is still the most Biblically oriented Lutheran Church in my country. I learned a great deal there but I am no longer a member.
I attend two churches, one is an Evangelical Free Church and the other is a Baptist church. Both have sound Bible teachers as pastors.
I think Martin Luther would be shocked at what has happened in Norway, in spite of modern day technologies.
I know little or nothing about the child welfare in the Czech Republic. Pavla has given me some information – and google gave me a lot – a study if I had the time and really wanted to.
But first – to Norway – the target number one for your movement of Truth. I found a link in english yesterday with a lot of facts and Truth about the Norwegian CPS – “Child welfare services for children with a minority background” – in all my coming comments I will use the information given in this link and show to the numbers and facts given – so – you can all take this as the standard of Truth
http://www.bufdir.no/en/English_start_page/Child_welfare_services_for_children_with_a_minority_background/
In 2012, 53,198 children and young people aged 0-22 years old received help from Child Welfare Services, either in the form of assistance at home or a placement outside of the home. 23 % of these (12,467) were either or Norwegian-born children with immigrant parents .
Among children and young people aged 0-22 years old, 36.5 per 1,000 received help from Child Welfare Services in 2012. If one breaks these figures down based on background, the corresponding figures are:
32.0 per 1,000 children with no immigrant background.
76.3 per 1,000 children who are immigrants.
50.4 per 1,000 Norwegian-born children with immigrant parents.
One factor contributing to the high number of immigrants in receipt of child welfare measures is that unaccompanied refugee minors are included in this group.
In 2014, 53,088 children – or 3.6 % of the population aged 0-22 years old – received help from Child Welfare Services. The corresponding figures for immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents from a selection of countries was:
7.0 % of children from Russia (414 children)
2.0 % of children from Lithuania (195 children)
3.8 % of children from Estonia (40 children)
2.3 % of children from Romania (65 children)
At the end of 2012, Child Welfare Services had 7 out of every 1,000 children aged 0-17 years old under its care. These are children who have been taken into care by Child Welfare Services as a result of care orders issued by County Social Welfare Boards. Some of these children have been under the care of Child Welfare Services for several years.
If one breaks these figures down based on background, the corresponding figures are:
6.9 per 1,000 children with no immigrant background.
8.8 per 1,000 children who are immigrants.
5.5 per 1,000 Norwegian-born children with immigrant parents.
At the end of 2014, Child Welfare Services had 8,569 children aged 0-17 years old under its care – the equivalent of 7.6 per 1,000 for this age category. The corresponding figures for immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents from a selection of countries was:
2.0 per 1000 children from Poland (35 children)
6.6 per 1,000 children from Russia (31 children)
5.0 per 1,000 children from Romania (12 children)
8.4 per 1,000 children from Iraq (91 children)
At the end of 2014, the number of children under the care of Child Welfare Services from the Czech Republic and Estonia was so low that it is not possible to provide any figures due to privacy concerns. The figure among immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents was 3 or fewer.
There has been a heave raise in forced adoption the latter years – from around 15 a year up to 2009 – to around 63 in 2014.
So – some facts about the child welfare in the Czech Republic. Pavla has told us about the heavy use of institutions. When I grew up we in Norway had “Barnehjem” – a home for children without parents for many reasons – especially sosialeconomic reasons – and the situation in the Czech Republic reminds me of that. In Norway we have because of the oil period come up on a serving welfare state that f.i. give everyone in the nation a possibllity to find and google the Truth and to give their private traumas to others on the facebook.
In the year 2003, Professor Kevin Browne from the UK’s University of Birmingham with his team revealed in the report “Mapping the number and characteristics of
children under three in institutions across Europe at risk of harm” that Czech Republic, from 33 European countries, has the highest percentage of children below the age of 3 in institutional care. In Czech Republic, there are 60 children per each 10,000 children under 3 years in institutional care. For example, in the United Kingdom it is less than 1 child per 10,000. Even in the Slovak Republic,
which shares a communist part of the former times with Czech Republic, the rate of children under the age of 3 is much lower, at 31 children per 10,000. We also have a very high number of children above 3 in institutional care and this is
slowly increasing. In the year 2007, there existed 225 institutions where 7,600 children were placed; that is 80 children out of every 100,000, according to Czech Home Ministry statistics published in October 2007.
If the main reason for the placement of children in institutional care is the serious abuse and neglect of children in family environments or the
non-existence of parents, then we are confronted with asking ourselves: Is Czech Republic really full of cruel parents? Or, where have so many parents gone, leaving behind their children? How do we explain the fact that after leaving
institutional care, 70 percent of Czech children (institutional stay lasts for an average of 14.5 years in Czech Republic) return to their former “cruel” or “incompetent” families?
If the main reason for the placement of children in institutional care is the serious threat to the health, life or development of the child, as stated by the Czech laws, then how is it possible that in such a developed country with a high standard of living, a member of the European Union and a member of the OECD, there are so many children removed from their parental homes for social reasons? In its 2006 report, UZIS claimed that 55% of children under 3 are placed in state care for social reasons.
In our modest opinion, the key to reducing the enormous percentage of children in institutional care in the Czech Republic lies with the social workers. But, is this because they are, as individuals, more insensitive and cruel than other social workers from neighbouring countries? Or, is there room for their further education and change in attitudes of the social workers? Or, is it that there is a great systemic failure with serious legislative limitations?
Social workers from child protection departments are required by law to “revive the functional family”. However, there are many barriers to their achievement of this responsibility. They are each overwhelmed by, according the information that
we received from the social workers in the field, an average of more than 400 cases. Such an intense pressure evokes a very formal, bureaucratic or
disinterested response to needs of the family. Social workers in Czech Republic are often seen by clients as resorting to repressive measures rather than supportive measures in their attempts to protect the interests of the child. They
do not have any support services for reflection, supervision and client feedback.
In Czech Republic there is no tradition of consultation and co-operation in
addressing the needs of the family. The decision to suggest institutional placement is often made by a single social worker. Traditionally, the court decision ordering the removal of a child from his/her family is based almost entirely on
the merits of this suggestion. There are also strong financial motivations
for institutions to take children into their care in Czech Republic. Homes for children under the age of 3 receive 10,000 EUR per child per year. Institutions for children above the age of 3 receive about 8,000 EUR per child per year: Even if the children are on the run.
Apart from these funds from the state, parents must also pay subsistence costs for their children in institutional care. The amount of the payment is dependent on
the income of the parents. It can be around 20-30 EUR monthly per child. If the parent lives only from the minimum income social benefits, the subsistence costs can be excused. The money goes directly to concrete institution where the
child is placed and it can be use for any purpose. It is a criminal offence for families default on payments.
Courts impose punishments on parents which generally range from several hours
of public interest labour to the imprisonment of parents for a period of up to two years.
Most children’s homes are paid these enormous sums through state funds. Municipalities do not feel any responsibility and are under no pressure to address the needs of families in a timely and more effective manner through social assistance.
Click to access m000002F2.pdf
You also find a lot of facts – known as Truth – on this link
Click to access information_family_policy.pdf
I think we can all learn from each other both as individuals and profesionalls. We in Norway have had a period of economy that is no in change and the goals we have achieved in our services might alter in a severe negative direction. The Eastern part of Europe is more protective with their borders and services given to travellers – we in the Western part almost have invited them as especially Merkel was the key person behind. I hope the Czech Republic and other Eastern countries find some answers to a better CPS by looking to Norway – pick and choose as you please and serve your inhabitants in a most human and caring way.
Well, situation in Czechia has been improving and more foster families have been recruited in recent years. The number of children in institutional care have been decreasing. But there´s a lot of work ahead of us, you have a point, Knut.. Unlike in Slovakia (we were one country -Czechoslovakia- from 1918 to 1993- including the era of democratic First republic and era of communism) our laws don´t prohibit placement of very small kids into institutions. I hope that it will change soon!
And it´s absurd that people who fight against Barnevern are the opponents of the ongoing reform (the aim: more foster families, less children in institutions) of our system at the same time. What is important for them- children, parents, institutions, their ideology? Some would argue that foster families want to make just money on children and that the number of children in care is going to rise, but it´s nonsense according to research from other countries (i. e. Austria, Germany- countries who are our neighbors and their children protection system is similar to the Norwegian and other Western systems and they have undergone a sort of reform we are trying to finish just now).
BTW Czech Republic (and I am proud of being Czech) is not so called Eastern Europe. I don´t agree with Jitka Fialova. Yes, we survived communism, but we have had more in common with Western countries such as Austria, Germany or even Scandinavia than with Russia or Balkan´s countries. We had a good tradition of foster care (era of the First republic) we can build on…
And I´m sure that family is important for everyone…We are not better parents and better society thant the West including Norway.
In what way does any of this, including institutions in the Czech Republic, including statistics of how many or few children from various nations Norway takes into care, mean that we should not care about the way Norway treats Eva Michaláková and her children, the Bodnariu parents and their children?
Statistics can be interesting, even revealing. But when people use it as an excuse, to side-track the treatment and concern over individual cases, there is something utterly wrong in their reasoning. There are in reality many, many cases in which Norwegian CPS treats families indefensibly. Certainly the MAJORITY of cases of forcible taking into care are very suspect, and many clearly wrong, whichever way one prefers to wish reality to be. But even if there weren’t many cases, what excuse is that for not taking single cases, the wrongs committed in them by a state-run agency, the breaches of law even committed by public authorities, utterly seriously, each and every one, have them rectified, and make sure that the state agency in its continuation is not even worse?
I’m with you, Marianne, and I think Veronika is beginning to show her hand.
Why are children being taken from parents and being placed in foster homes when both the parents and the children want to be together?
I talked today to a 13 year old girl who was molested by her mother’s boyfriend. She has also been treated very badly by her mother. She remembers the incident, which happened years ago, well and wants nothing to do with the mother. Why are so many Norwegian children living in foster homes having so many emotional and social problems as noted on this blog? It is because they were taken from good parents whom they love.
BTW…this 13 year old is living with her father and, from what I’ve seen, he is doing an excellent job as a parent. The mother is still trying to get some kind of custody after years of court cases. Another court case is coming up soon and I’m praying that this young lady will never have to see her mom again.
Trying to tone down the abuses committed by Barnevernet by referring to the good they supposedly do in other cases and also to the official policy of what they should do, seems much like running a justice system on the following lines:
“There are some muggings and assaults done by the police. But we won’t do anything about those, because the police protect the public in so many other cases, and they even prevent others from carrying out muggings and assaults. So instead we will increase the police budget, and we will incessantly come out with press releases saying that anybody can make mistakes, but that we have every confidence in our own police, and that the rumours of wrong-doings by the police refer to cases that are secret.”
In reality, the fact that obvious “faults” by Barnevernet are not corrected by anybody, that any investigation and remedy in those cases are strongly resisted by Barnevernet and all their superiors, is the obvious “proof of the pudding” – it is what the families are forced to “eat”.
Great analogy, Marianne. It fits like a glove in this case.
In my opinion, foster parents can be a better solution than an institution for a small child. (I am talking about children, who were at harm or heavy neglect at home and where biological family is unable to care for.) The question is though, in how many families these children stay. As it was stated in one statistics, in Norway, some of these children change foster families 2,3, and rarely 4 or 5 times. This can never create a good bond. Unfortunately I dont remember, where I have seen the statistics anymore. Czech Rep. has also an amount of children, who were abandoned. I dont know how is it in Norway. Even in Czech Rep. , children are sometimes taken because of bad social situation and mistakes happen. I hope (and believe) that biological family is always considered first option there. I know myself about cases where the mothers were unable to care for the children (addiction) and children have stayed in the family. I also know about another child from an institution, where friends of my parents got into care as foster parents. After some time this child was returned to his biological mother. Of course children can not always grow up with their parents, but many of the removals could be solved differently.
Another point is, that children, who are taken into care should have their cases reevaluated. Social workers should work with the parents and help them to reunite with their children. Again, this is not possible in all families, but most could profit from that. I am sure that most parents would do anything to have their children returned. I do have my doubts about the emergency placements in Norway. Obviously, the amount of emergency placements in Norway has increased tremendously between 2007 and 2012 and only about 20 % of the children are taken away because of abuse, addiction or heavy neglect? I dont know whether I dont mix up emergency placements with other placements though.
Having the children removed causes an enormous trauma for the whole family but especially for the children. Even children, who were returned after few months (sometimes wrongly taken) are afraid of being taken again, dont trust strangers etc. There was a document about such cases on Dutch TV. The teenage girl said, when they removed her from her parents it felt like kidnapping. She was very angry, even at the parents. Its tragic. She was lucky to be able to come back home..many are not.
Emergency removals: They are increasing considerably. The CPS do this because they are increasingly allowed to, and to keep the children while the case determining whether it was valid drags on for months. This gives the CPS the upper hand: When they hold the children, they have so much better access to influence the children, to “observe” them, to claim that the unhappiness they reveal stems from having been treated badly back home with their parents, to pressure the parents into accepting unreasonable arrangements etc. Possession is indeed “nine points of the law”.
More about Czechia:
http://www.novinky.cz/domaci/397421-polovina-deti-je-v-ustavu-proto-ze-rodice-nemaji-na-bydleni.html?source=FBS
The problem in Czechia is that some children have to live in an institution just because their parents can not afford to pay for an accomodation which would be suitable for family.. These children end up as homeless people very often when they are adult and their children are taken into care institution as a consequences…. dangerous circle.(see article above)
Simply, I do not like giving advice to the others (we are better than you, Norway, we stick on family values unlike you) when we should concentrate on our problems first.
No, one should not at all stick to one’s own problems first. That is not decent modesty, not even common sense, it is lack of concern for other people who need help and whom one can help at least by NOT saying that their troubles are unworthy. It is a selfish lack of concern for your fellow human beings. You are not just omitting to criticise Norway, you are implicitly condemning people like the Bodnarius and Eva Michaláková by supporting their tormentors. Nor are you devoting all your time to solving Czechia’s own problems, you are spending time and effort on this forum, trying to make little of the sufferings of CPS-attacked families, trying to convince people here not to bother about those families, not to believe that any harm has been done to them which they do not “deserve”. You seem willing to do that in order for Czechia to get money from Norway Grants to benefit not Czech children but Czech social workers, psychologists and administrators who are friendly with Norway. That is the kind of attitude you in Czechia ought NOT to learn from the West to which you want to belong.
There is no reason to “learn” from Norway how to help children whose parents are poor. The kind of teaching Norway does, ends in a belief in the cocksure “system”, ill-treatment of the individuals, “diagnoses” and accusations against parents, against anyone who disagrees with them – the kind of abuse Norwegian Barnevernet carries out constantly, families being trodden down, social tyranny being praised and elevated.
Instead of stubbornly thinking that you know it all, you should go look properly into some cases of CPS abuse. That is usually an eye-opener for people. I have self-satisfied Norwegians writing me and calling me practically every week, even more, saying “What can we do? Our children have been taken” and when I ask them what they have done before, to help others who have cried out in their deep need and whose similar stories have been there for them to read, the answer is that no, they haven’t bothered, they have just believed the authorities. So, therefore it all continues, because so many are placidly self-centred.
I think we should have helped children who have been living in bad conditions in our own country before we started giving lessons to the others. We know the most about rules in our own society, so we are able to make a difference in Czech children´s lives. Norway is a democratic country and Norwegian citizens should discuss their system and improve it without the interference of strangers. I lived in Bergen, i studied at UiB, so I do know that Norway is not a totalitarian country which should be under scrutiny of the world and which can´t handle its own problems…
It´s difficult to gain deeper insight into children protection system cases (I prefer to discuss general frame for CPS work). I would need to study ALL materials about the case from all institutions, I would need to listen to all witnesses.., I would need to follow the Court sessions…I would have to work as an judge with the same knowledge about the case he or she possess to decide who´s right in these cases. I frankly detest so called stories when a parent talk about his/ her experience and it´s up to you if you trust him or her…
I agree, that families, who end up without means should be helped. It can happen and it should alone never be reason to loose the children. Though there are families that live in gross neglect, spending their money on anything else than children. How would you help these families? I dont think there can be done much, unfortunately. It should be looked more deeply into the social reasons.
I dont think children homes are necessarily bad. Surely a family is better for a small child, but if a child is moved between different foster families, I dont see that as a good thing. What I like is, that in children homes, siblings are kept together if possible. Also these homes are not what they used to be 40 years ago. Children live in small groups (units) resembling family. Its far from ideal, but I dont think these homes can be abolished completely. Most adoptive and foster parents are interested in small children, though who is going to care for teenagers from troubled households.
The amount of children placed (or returned back0 into their biological family is in Czech Rep. much higher than in Norway. My problem in Norway is, how the biological family is treated by CPS. Its not possible that children are adopted against the will of the parents, grandparents and other relatives who want and can care for them. In Czech R. we have opposite problem, it is enough to send a postcard every now and then to call that interest of the biological family. That can of course disappoint children, who think parents still want to take them back, while they dont want to (can not) and this can be a problem for these children to be adopted.
I agree than we can not change situation of all children from poor and dysfunctional families but I support the program of the mentionned Group for social housing and I believe in better days…
We may find some institutions or children homes for older teenagers (up 12 or 13 years) in all countries including Norway. But Czech republic is the only country in the EU/EEA which allows to place babies and toddlers into institutional care. Slovakia may serve as a model for us in this respect-a bill prohibiting institutional care for all children under 6 years was passed by Slovakian parliament in 2012:
http://zpravy.aktualne.cz/domaci/rada-pro-lidska-prava-zada-o-zakaz-umistovat-deti-do-sedmi-l/r~4e75f6d6ad7011e59772002590604f2e/
Children may change their foster family, but the same applies to an institutional care. Many children have had to move several times, they were moving from one children home to another.See stories about young adults who were raised up in many children homes (and it´s not from the past)::http://www.diakoniecceltm.cz/jak-nas-muzete-podporit/rok-drobnych-darcu/pribehy-vasich-daru/pribeh-vasich-daru-v-unoru-2016/ or http://www.teribear.cz/chci-pomoci-zahojit-bolavou-dusicku-deti-z-detskeho_domova_13_1.html. We miss a statistics with exact numbers, but generally speaking there´s no stability in lives of children from children homes…
Yes, I think that biological ties should pay more in Norway altough it depends on grounds of child´s removal in every specific case. My point was that it´s up to Norwegians who are the most familiar with their own system to propose some reforms if needed. They can do it on their own because they live in a free country. I can make the same conclusion about Czechia…I wouldn´t like if a Norweian or British or Austrian people sent us a message that we don´t value the importance of family as much as they do and that their country is much more warmer, family- oriented place than our Czech territory.. So I don´like this video from Jitka Fialova. Let´s go to take care about children in our proximity since we all live in open, democratic countries and we can help in our hometown or country.
“So I don´like this video from Jitka Fialova.”
Tells me all I need to know about you, Veronika.
Veronika, you are wrong on “They can do it on their own because they live in a free country” We don’t. The children, parents and families involved are without rights to speak and without other central human rights: To family life, right to take care of own children, freedom to work, to social acceptance, dignity, hopes and dreams for a future, as having other children… We don’t have a free country without fear. Many persons dont support us because of the risk for their own children, their jobs, their social acceptance.
What in fact is right is that you probably are from warmer and more family-oriented countries. Norway needs people like Delight, Chris, Pavla, Steven Bennett and Cristina Nicoli desperately. We need their love and anger, together with their brains, time and hands. They also give oppertunity to people like the norwegian professor Marianna Skånland to share her insight, and Knut Nygaard to show his perspectives, leaving no doubt about what we are fighting. These people came straight from God to make THE difference. I can’t express how much I appreciate it.
When we in Norway talk about Norway, Norwegians and the functionate CPS to the world we – either it’s you or Skånland – must help the people without our knowledge and experince to gain some TRUTH – not just negative propaganda without any purpose and oneeyed stories that of cause are emotional,
In Norway and in the Western world this movement ant it’s bias have a couple of hundred CPS haters who have lived in this negative propaganda world so long that they start to believe in what they are distributing.
I looked on the manus on the flyer that the good and TRUTHfully Americans shall give to passers by in Phonix, Arizona. I don’t know if Octavian has had a part in the manus, but when this movements ambassadors deliever this b…….t information about Norway, Norwegians and the functionate CPS they are distributing lies just as the Nazis did about the Jews.
Many of you consider yourself as Christians – aren’t Christians supposed to tell TRUTH – and not distributing others lies and false progaganda?
Take a look at this Phonix flyer
tI will comment the content on the flyer – paragraph by paragraph – it’s still time to repair – if you want to be a truthful movemetnt. The flier is full of insane accusations and false “information”. The flier is so dumb that a non-activist understands that this is shitty.
9611 are in the taken care situation in Norway – that is not 1% of the population. We are more than 961.100 inhabitants.
A conclusion done in the CPS can be sent as a complaint to the County Guverneur. A conclusion done by the County Boad can be complained to further treatment in our court system. We – as CPS – has duty service towards the child and their parents. If the parents want to they can take a copy of all the documents in the case and give it further to the press or anyone for that case – the CPS don’t speak to the press about a certain case and if done it’s by a leader of the administration concerned.
Yes, we handle emergency concerns given a green light by the leader of the CPS and it’s legal advisor. This is done in accordance with The Cild Welfare Act § 4-6: Section 4-6. Interim orders in emergencies.
If a child is without care because the parents are ill or for other reasons, the child welfare service shall implement such assistance as is immediately required. Such measures may not be maintained against the will of the parents.
If there is a risk that a child will suffer material harm by remaining at home, the head of the child welfare administration or the prosecuting authority may immediately make an interim care order without the consent of the parents.
In such a case the head of the child welfare administration may also make an interim order under section 4-19.
If an order has been made under the second paragraph, an application for measures as mentioned in section 7-11 shall be sent to the county social welfare board as soon as possible, and within six weeks at the latest, but within two weeks if it is a matter of measures under section 4-24.
If the matter has not been sent to the county social welfare board within the time-limits mentioned in the fourth paragraph, the order lapses.
A tourist or a visitor without a registration as a inhabitant is not a person we give our services to. Section 1-2. The territorial extent of the Act. The provisions of the Act regarding services and measures apply to all persons staying in this kingdom
The King may make regulations concerning the application of the Act in Svalbard. At the end of 2012, Child Welfare Services had 7 out of every 1,000 children aged 0-17 years old under its care. These are children who have been taken into care by Child Welfare Services as a result of care orders issued by County Social Welfare Boards. Some of these children have been under the care of Child Welfare Services for several years.
If one breaks these figures down based on background, the corresponding figures are:
6.9 per 1,000 children with no immigrant background.
8.8 per 1,000 children who are immigrants.
5.5 per 1,000 Norwegian-born children with immigrant parents.
At the end of 2014, Child Welfare Services had 8,569 children aged 0-17 years old under its care – the equivalent of 7.6 per 1,000 for this age category. The corresponding figures for immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents from a selection of countries was:
2.0 per 1000 children from Poland (35 children)
6.6 per 1,000 children from Russia (31 children)
5.0 per 1,000 children from Romania (12 children)
8.4 per 1,000 children from Iraq (91 children)
At the end of 2014, the number of children under the care of Child Welfare Services from the Czech Republic and Estonia was so low that it is not possible to provide any figures due to privacy concerns. The figure among immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents was 3 or fewer. Of cause these cases have no solution in efforts done by diplomacy – it’s the parents and their lawyer that is the legal part – and the child from the age of 15.
Adoption was in 2014 done with around 63 children.
If the father in violent toward the family – or accused – the children can stay in the home with their mother if that is considered safe and truthful. My experice is that it’s much more easy to reunite if done so – the father handled by the police – if case closed it’s up to the CPS who can supervice the family for periods negotiated. Divorce is a private and personal decission – the CPS is not married to any of the legal parts.
Some – few – very few – take their children to relatives in their homeland. Suicide – never heard of – taken out of the air. That’s a serious claim that needs documtation if used on a flyer.
More suicide accusations without any documentation or known history – taken out of the activist drawer of lies.
A demonstration for something else – rather funny – we can all demonstrate for something else – and put in our own “else”.
You are doing most harm to yourself by distributing this negative and false propaganda. We in Norway – both as inhabitants and CPS will not regard this nonsense worth any notice and it will for sure have no influence at all.
A movement full of false negative propaganda and lies are not from God.
When we in Norway talk about Norway, Norwegians and the functionate CPS to the world we – either it’s you or Skånland – must help the people without our knowledge and experince to gain some TRUTH – not just negative propaganda without any
purpose and oneeyed stories that of cause are emotional,
In Norway and in the Western world this movement ant it’s bias have a couple of hundred CPS haters who have lived in this negative propaganda world so long that they start to believe in what they are distributing.
I looked on the manus on the flyer that the good and TRUTHfully Americans shall give to passers by in Phonix, Arizona. I don’t know if Octavian has had a part in the manus, but when this movements ambassadors deliever this “information” about Norway, Norwegians and the functionate CPS they are distributing lies just as the Nazis did about the Jews.
Many of you consider yourself as Christians – aren’t Christians supposed to tell TRUTH – and not distributing others lies and false progaganda?
Take a look at this Phonix flyer
tI will comment the content on the flyer – paragraph by paragraph – it’s still time to repair – if you want to be a truthful movemetnt. The flier is full of insane accusations and false “information”. The flier is so dumb that a non-activist understands that this is taken out of thin air.
9611 are in the taken care situation in Norway – that is not 1% of the population. We are more than 961.100 inhabitants.
A conclusion done in the CPS can be sent as a complaint to the County Guverneur. A conclusion done by the County Boad can be complained to further treatment in our court system. We – as CPS – has duty service towards the child and their parents. If the parents want to they can take a copy of all the documents in the case and give it further to the press or anyone for that case – the CPS don’t speak to the press about a certain case and if done it’s by a leader of the administration concerned.
Yes, we handle emergency concerns given a green light by the leader of the CPS and it’s legal advisor. This is done in accordance with The Cild Welfare Act § 4-6: Section 4-6. Interim orders in emergencies.
If a child is without care because the parents are ill or for other reasons, the child welfare service shall implement such assistance as is immediately required. Such measures may not be maintained against the will of the parents.
If there is a risk that a child will suffer material harm by remaining at home, the head of the child welfare administration or the prosecuting authority may immediately make an interim care order without the consent of the parents.
In such a case the head of the child welfare administration may also make an interim order under section 4-19.
If an order has been made under the second paragraph, an application for measures as mentioned in section 7-11 shall be sent to the county social welfare board as soon as possible, and within six weeks at the latest, but within two weeks if it is a matter of measures under section 4-24.
If the matter has not been sent to the county social welfare board within the time-limits mentioned in the fourth paragraph, the order lapses.
A tourist or a visitor without a registration as a inhabitant is not a person we give our services to. Section 1-2. The territorial extent of the Act. The provisions of the Act regarding services and measures apply to all persons staying in this kingdom
The King may make regulations concerning the application of the Act in Svalbard. At the end of 2012, Child Welfare Services had 7 out of every 1,000 children aged 0-17 years old under its care. These are children who have been taken into care by Child Welfare Services as a result of care orders issued by County Social Welfare Boards. Some of these children have been under the care of Child Welfare Services for several years.
If one breaks these figures down based on background, the corresponding figures are:
6.9 per 1,000 children with no immigrant background.
8.8 per 1,000 children who are immigrants.
5.5 per 1,000 Norwegian-born children with immigrant parents.
At the end of 2014, Child Welfare Services had 8,569 children aged 0-17 years old under its care – the equivalent of 7.6 per 1,000 for this age category. The corresponding figures for immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents from a selection of countries was:
2.0 per 1000 children from Poland (35 children)
6.6 per 1,000 children from Russia (31 children)
5.0 per 1,000 children from Romania (12 children)
8.4 per 1,000 children from Iraq (91 children)
At the end of 2014, the number of children under the care of Child Welfare Services from the Czech Republic and Estonia was so low that it is not possible to provide any figures due to privacy concerns. The figure among immigrants and those born in Norway to immigrant parents was 3 or fewer. Of cause these cases have no solution in efforts done by diplomacy – it’s the parents and their lawyer that is the legal part – and the child from the age of 15.
Adoption was in 2014 done with around 63 children.
If the father in violent toward the family – or accused – the children can stay in the home with their mother if that is considered safe and truthful. My experice is that it’s much more easy to reunite if done so – the father handled by the police – if case closed it’s up to the CPS who can supervice the family for periods negotiated. Divorce is a private and personal decission – the CPS is not married to any of the legal parts.
Some – few – very few – take their children to relatives in their homeland. Suicide – never heard of – taken out of the air. That’s a serious claim that needs documtation if used on a flyer.
More suicide accusations without any documentation or known history – taken out of the activist drawer of lies.
A demonstration for something else – rather funny – we can all demonstrate for something else – and put in our own “else”.
You are doing most harm to yourself by distributing this negative and false propaganda. We in Norway – both as inhabitants and CPS will not regard this nonsense worth any notice and it will for sure have no influence at all.
A movement full of false negative propaganda and lies are not from God.
Hi Hege,
” must help the people without our knowledge and experince to gain some TRUTH – not just negative propaganda without any
purpose and oneeyed stories that of cause are emotional,”
I know who is on the side of TRUTH Hege. It is very easy to see. The propagandist has stolen my word for him. Unfortunately, he is not very good at his job.
Chris and Helge Dahl, I do know Norway and Norwegian people, I have some friends there…And I must say that I appreciate the work of Norwegian media, their high quality of handling for example CPS cases. The media are not afraid of writing about CPS at all, quite contrary, many article about this service have been published in recent years. Your journalists have been trying to reveal cases in which CPS really helped the children involved in as well as cases in which social workers failed. “Ida sakken” has been published as a booklet and it´s an example of professional journalist work for me. The authors haven´t been persecuted nor they have lost their jobs.
When it comes to general public, I can´t speak about the whole Norwegian society, but I´ve experienced that Norwegians don´t live in fear and in a totalitrian society at all. Quite opposite- they discuss freely various topics, they take part in various campaigns freely.
And they DO love their family members and their children as much as we do. It´s a kind of arrogance to claim that Czech society is warmer or better than Norwegian one, because it´s not true. And I can imagine a situation when a foreign person would say us: Hei, you, Czech folks you are not interested in family values, we must help you to understand it… How I would fee after I would have listened to these claimsl? I would feel insulted and I´d think to myself: What an arrogant person!
Like the propagandist, you continue to dig yourself a deeper hole, Veronica.
Knut, soon all these children will be adults and they will not stay silent. I have no problem with children being taken on emergency measure (although it should be only in extreme cases, which I doubt happens now in Norway). Though the way these children are removed and kept in isolation (think about the Bodnariu girls) is not right. I still dont understand, how do you isolate a teenager. I can imagine that you can isolate a 5 year old one, but 12 year old? Do you follow them every step they go and make sure, that they dont contact their parents and friends? If the children state themselves that they want to go home several times, then they probably did not have it bad at home. There is a 12 year old boy, who wrote a letter to be reunited with his family. This letter was dismissed. Where are children rights then? The biggest paradox is, that 2 of his siblings are back home, but he and his brother are not. I am thinking and thinking what could be a reason to return 2 out of 4 children, but I can not find any. In the Bodnariu case, the county board even suggested that the children are returned, why are they not returned then? Because CPS thinks they know better?
Concentrate on cases of real abuse and please stop harassing normal families. Families are not perfect but they should have freedom to raise their children as they wish, unless they break the law and then the parents should be charged. Why are only such a few emergency cases based on abuse, violence, gross neglect, addiction and so many based on insufficient care?
Another thing, biological ties are very important. I really hope that from now on biological family will be given more rights and considered as first option to take over the care for children if necessary. You said yourself, that you are not really interested in meeting your biological siblings? Well maybe if you have had a regular contact since the childhood, the situation would be different and these people would not be strangers to you today. Think about it.
The headliner in Norway just now concerning the CPS is about the case I mentioned about a girl age 13 that dies in her mothers care in a cabin. The County Guverneur has chequed the handling of the two CPS’s involved and again it’s
found severe faults done – we as a service have not done enough and investigated as we should.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Fylkesmannen-i-ny-rapport-Barnevernet-i-Barum-og-Valdres-brot-loven-i-saken-der-jente-13-dode-8409290.html
Some of you readers are Norwegians – here is what the County Guverneur wrote –
Click to access Rapport%20barnevern.PDF
Yes, they grow up – some send us christmas cards – some visit our office with their own children and other parent. Some are organized and look us in the cards and go to the press if we don’t help the children according to their experienca as a child in the care of our service.
They are called “Landsforeningen for barnevernsbarn” – The national organization for children in the CPS”. Landsforeningen for barnevernsbarn er en medlems- og interesseorganisasjon som jobber for å bedre barn og unges rettigheter i møte med barnevernet, samt for å endre stereotype holdninger til barnevernet og barnevernsbarn.
Landsforeningen for barnevernsbarn ble stiftet 21. februar i 1997 etter stort engasjement fra ungdommer som ønsket å bruke sine erfaringer fra barnevernet til noe konstruktivt. Som organisasjon er vi opptatt av å ta barn og unges opplevelser på alvor, og forvalte disse erfaringene på en måte som fører til et bedre og mer hensiktsmessig barnevern. For å være medlem i LFB må man selv ha eller ha hatt tiltak fra barneverntjenesten, så vi involverer barnevernsbarna selv i alle ledd i vår organisasjon. Medlemmene våre har også muligheten til å bli erfaringskonsulenter.
LFB har vært en sterk pådriver for ettervern, brukermedvirkning og brukerinvolvering i dagens barnevern. I dag er vi fortsatt en sterk samfunnsaktør som blir lyttet til av de som bestemmer, og fundamentet vårt er den erfaringskunnskapen vi kan bidra med.
Landsforeningen for barnevernsbarn har laget to filmer om ettervern som kan bestilles hos oss. Vi er også i gang med å utvikle nye og oppdaterte brosjyrer som vil kunne bestilles. Følg med for mer informasjon.
Some are experience consultants:
http://www.barnevernsbarna.no/?module=Articles&action=Article.publicOpen&id=218
The organization has this link address
http://www.barnevernsbarna.no/
Some of the children want to give back some of the love and care they grew up with in the CPS. They are members of “Forandringfabrikken” – “The change factory” – http://www.forandringsfabrikken.no/
One of the changes they have told us about is that I mean more and is someone personal – a person with a name – doing our best for the daily care for this particular child – they have told us that they see us as their special “Contact person” – not as a case handler og social worker with profession name.
My guess is that it is considered that the mother have a possibility to give care to the the two girls, but if the boys come home they have a conduct and a behaviour that will ruin this partly succeeded return.
How the girls in the Bodnariu case live their daily life just now I don’t know nothing about..
When we receive a concern we don’t know what will follow. No one can tell the result of an investigation before it’s done in a proper way.
The emergency cases are based on abuse, violence, gross neglect and addiction. The Bodnariu case is based on violence.
As I have informed you – Norway is in change and so is Europe – more of the whole CPS work shall for the future be done by the municipalities. It is considered that we know more about the childs history and relations than now that most is handles through Buf.regions. This will be implemented in every municipalities by 2020.
It’s not normal for an adopted child to have any contact with it’s biological family during the adolescence.
The headliner in Norway just now concerning the CPS is about the case I mentioned about a girl age 13 that dies in her mothers care in a cabin. The County Guverneur has chequed the handling of the two CPS’s involved and again it’s
found severe faults done – we as a service have not done enough and investigated as we should.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Fylkesmannen-i-ny-rapport-Barnevernet-i-Barum-og-Valdres-brot-loven-i-saken-der-jente-13-dode-8409290.html
Some of you readers are Norwegians – here is what the County Guverneur wrote –
Click to access Rapport%20barnevern.PDF
Yes, they grow up – some send us christmas cards – some visit our office with their own children and other parent. Some are organized and look us in the cards and go to the press if we don’t help the children according to their experienca as a child in the care of our service.
They are called “Landsforeningen for barnevernsbarn” – The national organization for children in the CPS”.
Some are experience consultants:
http://www.barnevernsbarna.no/?module=Articles&action=Article.publicOpen&id=218
The organization has this link address
http://www.barnevernsbarna.no/
Some of the children want to give back some of the love and care they grew up with in the CPS. They are members of “Forandringfabrikken” – “The change factory” – http://www.forandringsfabrikken.no/
One of the changes they have told us about is that I mean more and is someone personal – a person with a name – doing our best for the daily care for this particular child – they have told us that they see us as their special “Contact person” – not as a case handler og social worker with profession name.
My guess is that it is considered that the mother have a possibility to give care to the the two girls, but if the boys come home they have a conduct and a behaviour that will ruin this partly succeeded return.
How the girls in the Bodnariu case live their daily life just now I don’t know nothing about..
When we receive a concern we don’t know what will follow. No one can tell the result of an investigation before it’s done in a proper way.
The emergency cases are based on abuse, violence, gross neglect and addiction. The Bodnariu case is based on violence.
As I have informed you – Norway is in change and so is Europe – more of the whole CPS work shall for the future be done by the municipalities. It is considered that we know more about the childs history and relations than now that most is handles through Buf.regions. This will be implemented in every municipalities by 2020.
It’s not normal for an adopted child to have any contact with it’s biological family during the adolescence.
Hi Pavla,
It is quite obvious that the propagandist will not take your advise and think about it. He replies three times (I think) to you here. There is no change. The only “change” is that the propagandist seems to be saying that things are going to get worse in the guise of things getting better.
And as I have said many times – you have for the most part just the same – or a worse – some severely worse – CPS – in your own backyards.
Knut if the emergency reason is proved as wrong, or not as serious as thought in the beginning, then children should be returned to their parents. It is not possible to change the original reason and keep the children away from their families. This happened to a Czech mother who actually got her child back after 3 months. Somehow all these parents say very similar things, so unless all these parents from different countries, who dont know each other, got together and agreed on what they are going to say, or they are some faults in the system. I think the second option is correct.
I do understand , that children, who are taken from harmful families and placed into good foster families are grateful for that. Nobody would want to let children stay in dangerous environment. I also understand that there is a difference among the social workers and even among the municipalities. So yes, you can have a group of children, who were saved from their families and are now helping. Not taking in account, that children can be manipulated against their own parents and that if you restrict contact severely, they will establish relationship to their foster parents..but ok, in some cases they did not have it good at home and it was the only right thing to do probably.
How old are these former foster children though? The amount of emergency measures has risen esp. after 2007 obviously.
To me, if a 12 year old child states that he wants to be reunited with his family, then he should be heard. You said that there was violence in Bodnariu family based on?? Probably based on what a 7 and 9 year old said. Do you take this as a factual evidence? So if children accuse their parents its taken as fact, but when they state that they want to reunite with their parents its not heard? A bit of double standard.
I dont think I am CPS hater. The things that work should stay and things that dont should be fixed. This affects life of too many families..and yes parents and even children commit suicide, when they are isolated from each other. It happens. Others maybe dont, but they are damaged psychologically.
I can’t speak for all municipalities, but my experience is that the CPS reunite the familly as soon as we are certain that the child will not be in a 4-6, 2- juction situation – either “again” or have “never been”. Some are reunited the same day – some a couple of days later and some when the police have concluded their investigation.
Yes, a case may change during an investigation. We can’t look our eyes to the content of information given to us. For some this can be hard to understand. This has nothing to do with cultural background – the law we act upon is the same for all inhabitants. We also have with us the cultural background and give some parents time to take our national information in and give us insight in the understanding done accordingly.
I think this 12 year old has a spokesman and has been heard. That is not the same that it is possible to follow up his wish.
We in the CPS have that in us that if a parent and a child tell two different stories about the daily life at home we are on the childs side until the parent or their lawyers give us information that proves that the childs information are false. That can be the case, but usually the child in 14-15 when that kind of disagreement happens. In the Bodnariu case both parents have confirmed parental violence on the Rumenian tv – and I read Costes in a way that said that the father had confirmed some of the stories given, but not all. In most cases parents do just that – confirm the light ones and reject the more heavy ones.
No, I don’t consider you as a CPS-hater. You are not on the activist auto-pilot – you are reflected and try to give the debate a serious angle. You too say – parents can commit suicide – I have not seen that in any media. Have you? Life ain’t easy for a lot of people and this situations involving family and children are of cause the hard ones to live with.
I have read a story about a parent whose children were removed, who went missing and later committed suicide recently.. Further about children, as I can remember a 16 year old boy Michael Knut, who was staying in foster care and another teenage girl, but that was an older story. I was not actively looking for these stories though.
I realize that CPS is necessary, unfortunately there are tragic stories where children are harmed at home and sometimes the help comes too late. We have had such a stories here and of course then CPS gets the blame too for being aware and guiding the family, but not preventing a tragedy.
Some parents struggle and might ask for support. Though I think there is a line as how far the state (CPS) may interfere. For example if parents are observed at home as how they interact with their children, sometimes even filmed. I dont think it can be objective , since this puts a great stress on both children and parents, but esp. the parents who may act differently and unnaturally.
There was also a good article from Norwegian newspaper about a family, that did not act well around CPS. They got nervous when they parental abilities were questioned and when they were observed. This created wrongly negative image of the family and the children were removed. I will look if I can find that.
Veronika:
Referring to Barnevernet and “their high quality of handling for example CPS cases.”
Have you read the articles, arguments and the comments on this site? Why do you insist on making a statement about the high quality of the Norwegian CPS?
Have you researched the Bodnariu case? Do you still think the CPS handled it in “high quality?”
I would say it violated human rights in the way it handled the Bodnariu family!
Veronica is much closer to the TRUTH than you are – Mr. Truth. You ain’t gonna get credible information from acitivsts like Skånland or other who are in need for support and consolation from strangers long away who can’t google and make up their own mind of some kind of TRUTH about a CPS in a nation far away.
Veronika: ” Norway is a democratic country and Norwegian citizens should discuss their system and improve it without the interference of strangers. I lived in Bergen, i studied at UiB, so I do know that Norway is not a totalitarian country which should be under scrutiny of the world and which can´t handle its own problems…
It´s difficult to gain deeper insight into children protection system cases (I prefer to discuss general frame for CPS work). I would need to study ALL materials about the case from all institutions, I would need to listen to all witnesses.., I would need to follow the Court sessions…I would have to work as an judge with the same knowledge about the case he or she possess to decide who´s right in these cases. I frankly detest so called stories when a parent talk about his/ her experience and it´s up to you if you trust him or her…”
“Dig, “dig,” “dig,” I hear the hole getting deeper. I think the digger may soon hit magma.
It really breaks my heart so much that barnevernet have separated the Bodnariu children from their parents and from each other. And not only has barnevernet taken away the children`s mum, dad, brothers and sisters, but also their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends(including their best friends), pets, toys,books,pictures, clothes, their home, village, school, language, culture,church,songs,family traditions, hopes, dreams and much, much more…..It is overwhelming, crazy and insane….I often wanted to write more here. But I don`t have more words…..It`s just too much to bear…. I often think about them and cry. But I know that Jesus sees and feels the pain. He cares and hears every prayer.
Amen, Hildi. You are so sweet.
“Insane” is the perfect word for this entire situation.