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Hello friends from Norway.
I am Tomáš Zdechovský (public FB photo below) member of the European Parliament.
I would like to motivate everybody to join the demonstration which aims to stop Barnevernet and which will take place in many cities on April 16th. We have received announcements from many European citizens whose healthy families were [dismantled] by this organization.
Barnevernet is fully autonomous and it was proven many times that they didn’t act in the best interest of the children, and prefer foster families to biological families.
Norway is a beautiful country but it has a skeleton in their [closet] which can be disposed of with your help and action.
Please do not be silent, but help Czech mother Eva Michalakova and many others in their fight for justice, and make Norway safe for biological families again.
Delight in Truth 
Thankful for this demonstration, have great hope for somethings positive shall happen. Barnevernet must be stop this organization is the most dangerous, organization, Norway and Norwegian family, have ever seen!
Øst-europeere oppfattet det kommunistiske systemet i Norge, for de hadde levet under den slags regime.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB-gxMi9SU5H4msozKhyRWQ/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=0&view=0
Interview with Marius & Ruth Bodnariu:
Thanks, Octavian. It is an incredible story. The first fact I can’t get over is that the parents weren’t even notified that this would take place. “I got frightened,” Ruth says. I would have been frightened, too.
Is this in Norway too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJADx5Ua55E a.s.o. This hypocrisy has no borders – do you envy us Norwegians??- I get some images of the living standard that we don’t have in Norway since WW2.
I think, Romania doesn’t have the guilt of kidnapping children from Norway or anywhere else. We cannot boast about our material conditions the Norwegians are boasting but I ask myself what will happen when the Norwegian oil will run out? My Swedish friends are telling me that Norwegian kids are poor educated and very bad raised. Take care of your children Barnevernet or so called Children Poaching Service. The family is the place for children, help your families, don’t destroy the families.
You dont get one thing Knut. Some people choose to live a certain life style, like it or not..Secondly should we look a bit closer to the romani and sami people who were living in Norway, how were they treated, what living conditions did they have?
Countries who have experienced socialism have problems as well, it will take another generation or two..or maybe more to fix that. Things are getting better, but you just can not compare them with western countries, just because we had those 40 years of darkness. We dont consider ourselves as role model though, while Norway does. Norway wants to export their child protection system to many countries thanks to the Norwegian funds. No thank you, we dont need that.
Hi Pavla,
I have seen many comments that tell of much of Norway’s wealth comes from oil reserves. With the glut of oil that is now on the world market, oil prices are very low and seem like they may continue in that direction. This fact has the O.P.E.C. nations quarreling amongst themselves as many are not making a profit from oil sales at the moment. If this trend continues, and if Norway relies on oil for much of its income, there will be a severe decrease in Norway’s GDP. That will mean government cutbacks. Maybe they won’t be able to steal children because of the economics.
Here are the facts that I’ve just found:
◾Norway is in the global top 5 exporters of crude oil. The oil and gas sector constitutes around 22% of Norwegian GDP and 67% of Norwegian exports.
◾Norway is Western Europe’s most important source of natural gas.
◾Norwegian gas exports account for approximately 20% of EU gas consumption (in 2010), with almost all Norwegian exports going to EU.
◾The main EU importers of Norwegian gas are: Germany, France, UK and Belgium
Here is my source: http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/norway/
I am aware that large amounts of natural gas are being found on other places on our planet. This will also hurt Norway’s gas exports eventually.
If the scenario I’ve outlined here takes place, we will find out about the priorities of Norway’s leadership. Will the CPS be the last “institution” to have cutbacks?
The Leviathan gas field off the coast of Israel is a natural gas reserve that could easily be tapped by the EU. It is close and it is vast. Maybe other European countries could import their natural gas from there as a protest against Norway’s CPS policies.
The UN implemented world wide new age organization Lucis (Lucifer) Trust
https://www.lucistrust.org/
Is a forerunner for the implemetning of a world government. Norway has so far a high status in this process of “sharing the earth”. The motivation factor is “the spirit of goodwill” – Lucis Trust says this about the Norwegian example to the rest of the earth: “Moreover, the spirit of goodwill has a sacrificial impulse to it that cares not for its own equal share of ‘things’ but thrives in the service of others and the stimulation of spiritual quality in all relationships in all kingdoms of nature. As far as the planet is concerned this points the way to stewardship rather than ownership. One example of a nation demonstrating this spirit of goodwill was the response of Norway some twenty years ago to the discovery of the vast oil fields in its territory of the North Sea. Rather than doling out the ensuing wealth to each individual Norwegian, Norway, a society that was previously quite poor in comparison to the other Scandinavian nations, has used vast amounts of its newfound wealth to aid other countries. Per capita, Norway is the most generous nation on Earth in terms of foreign aid. What an inspirational lead Norway gives to the world, like a shining light against the dark matrix of greed and material hoarding. It is to be hoped that other nations will catch and follow the light and alter their behaviour accordingly. This spirit of sharing, that rises above ownership, is surely the only way to address major world problems such as pollution, global warming and the problem of the ever shrinking rainforests.”
https://www.lucistrust.org/world_goodwill/newsletter/recent_issues__1/2012_3/sharing_the_earth
More about this consept here
Norway and Europe is in change. The beheaders are settling around us, For a believer I consider the USA and Canada a much safer place. Jesus is the barrier for the implementing of a dominating interfaith religion.
To the readers of this blog,
The pawn of the CPS is happy that an evil organization like the Lucis Trust is pleased with Norway’s “performance.”
The propagandist also wrote:
“Norway and Europe is in change. The beheaders are settling around us, For a believer I consider the USA and Canada a much safer place. Jesus is the barrier for the implementing of a dominating interfaith religion.”
I agree with the pawn’s last sentence. A one world government and a one world religion will not happen until God allows (not approves) it.
He quotes an organization named after Satan in a proud way. I can’t help but think that the propagandist isn’t happy that Jesus is the barrier for the implementation of a dominating interfaith religion because he wants one. He must be patient. There will be such an ungodly organization eventually. It may even happen during his lifetime.
When it comes to global warming, if you want the truth go to this website:
http://cornwallalliance.org/
God’s blessings…
I think that it’s only you that read me in such a derogatory and evil way. You took up the oil as a theme – I followed up by saying that the new age organization Lucis Trust that is settled f.i. in Oslo
https://www.lucistrust.org/worldwide_network/list_of_groups/europe/oslo_unit_service
in the Czech republic
https://www.lucistrust.org/worldwide_network/list_of_groups/europe/atma_do
in most places in Europe, but so far – not in Romania
https://www.lucistrust.org/worldwide_network/list_of_groups/europe
As a Christian you should watch your language, brother. That Norway have given away a lot of our oil income to the better for the world and get luciferic praise for doing so has of cause nothing to do with me being proud of it – it’s just to tell you about a picture much larger than the CPS and Norway.
We – as believers – all know that to believe in Jesus is the barrier for an interfaith movement or a world religion. Jesus said – “Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”
To the readers of this blog:
This pawn is not my Christian brother.
God’s blessings…
That’s not for you to decide … brother. And not me .. for that sake.
I don´t think that Norway wants to export their children care system to other European countries. It seems to me as a propaganda which has been spreading in Czechia for some time. It´s true that Scandinavian countries have been seen as a role model but the ways of doing things in Sweden (the biggest country) or Finlad (especially their education system) have been discussed and praised more often than the Norwegian systems. Norway is famous for its beauty, fjords and succesfull sportsmen , but it is a bit in a shadow of its bigger neighbor.
Norway is obliged to pay some amount of money to the EU countries as a consequence of their EEA membership (Norwegian funds). If they were offered to stop these payments wihtout losing the acces to European markets, they would agree, I think. They don´t follow any hidden agenda and they cooperate in many areas (Norwegian Budfir even praises some aspects of Czech child protection systems and the goal of the cooperation of the countires is for example to increase family- related foster care in Norway, source: Budfir presentation on the issue). What´s wrong with the cooperation?
And when it comes to propaganda against CPS, Netherlands is also among the victims and some people believe in for example Russian propaganda you can see in this documentary:
Veronika, they actually do cooperate
http://www.eeagrants.cz/cs/programy/ehp-fondy-2009-2014/cz04-ohrozene-deti-a-mladez/zakladni-informace
http://www.eeagrants.cz/cs/programy/ehp-fondy-2009-2014/cz04-ohrozene-deti-a-mladez/cz04-schvalene-projekty/kodifikace-pravni-upravy-podpory-rodin-n-1370
As I said many times. I understand that there are cases when children have to be taken from their own family. But its an extreme solution and even then it should be looked whether nobody from extended family can take care of the children. Sometimes its not possible, but in many times it is. Why are only 25 % of children placed at relatives or friends?
I have asked Knut before. What does a CPS worker tell the children, when they are taken away immediately from school or kindergarten. What explanations do they give to them? The children are moved hours away and hidden on secret places. So in one moment those children loose everything, not just the parents, but also other relatives, friends and sometimes siblings…and of course their home. I can not imagine what reaction that causes. I also wonder what explanation these children get when they can only meet their parents and other relatives once in a while.
Lately there were few cases when children were returned to the family. In all those cases the decision was made by court or county board. I wonder, why weren’t they then returned by CPS ? Maybe Knut would know how many of the children that are removed are eventually returned to their families. Its obviously not too many.
I dont hate Norway or Norwegians at all. I think its a beautiful country. We all need child protection in every country, but the child protection has to be fair to the children and the families. Its not possible that children are estranged from their biological families, that is what bothers me most. I am sure its not in all the cases, but it happens often and its tragic.
Holland has problem with CPS as well. They are accused for not doing enough (we had a tragic story of two siblings that were killed by their own father. Children were living with their mother and father had very restricted contact to them. The whole family was for a few years in CPS care). We had another similar case, when children were killed by their own parents while under CPS care..On the other side, children were taken, when they should not and after many years returned. Though those stories in Holland get media attention. Parents who had their children removed and later returned, were speaking on TV.
I must confirm what Pavla says: Norway does spread its ideas of child protection, and they do it by offering money to develop cooperative “projects” which all go in the same direction. Several countries in Eastern Europe are into this, at least Estonia, Lithuania, Romania and Czechia. Norway is not alone in spreading this Western-developed-welfare-state notion of social work, that is all.
About the Netherlands:
“Dutch social workers catch the English disease”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7779
Christopher Booker is a senior writer with The Telegraph, also he writes in The Mail, and is very knowledgeable about the way Western child protection goes overboard.
“Indians join Slovaks in protesting against UK child snatchers”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9637487/Indians-join-Slovaks-in-protesting-against-UK-child-snatchers.html
Veronika, I did not know that the brothers (Denis and David) can see each other. It is of course a good thing, although once in a 3 weeks is not very often considering they were growing up together before. What I have meant was, that the children (both) are estranged from the rest of their family. Not just in this particular case, but in many others, where the grandparents and other relatives can not see their grandchildren. Sometimes they may see them few hours a year, but its not fair. How about the Bodnariu, they live 4,5 and 2,5 hours from their home and are separated by great distances from the parents and each other, why? I wonder how often can for example the cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents etc. see the children..Small children can be manipulated easily, if you take a small child from a family and allow that child only very restricted contact with his biological family, almost any child would establish relationship with the foster parents. I dont think its the case of Bodnariu, it seems the children have very good and strong relationship with the parents. I also dont understand why a Norwegian mother (Vibeke, she was mentioned here) can keep 2 children, but not all 4? Its like playing Sophie’s choice with the families. So either a parent is not capable to raise the children, or he(she) is. You can not justify taking some of the children into care. In the case of Eva M. , why can she work at school and raise a step daughter, but not even see her own children? It just does not make any sense.
I usually dont use extreme comparison, because then the opposite party will not take it seriously. But it does get attention. I do understand why for example president Zeman compared BV to lebensborn. Of course, even as he said, its not exactly the same, but the way the children are assimilated and forget their language, culture etc., one can understand the link.
The case from Holland about children not speaking Russian, it was probably the one Marianne has mentioned in her link. It was one of the reasons named by CPS for taking the children into care. The children were finally returned in November 2014 after 2,5 years and a lot of hassle.
There was another case, when a child was taken into care because of salty soup. Well again, that was probably one of the observations that formed a negative image of the mother and was a reason for removing the child, not the only reason of course.
It’s not easy to understand what is behind all that shows up on the facebook pages. To get the whole picture we must have acsess to the file in the archive, but we both can assume something from the outside looking in.
We humans are individuals and what happens today we don’t know the consequeces of in the future. I read some comments a Norwegian prior fosterchild shared on the Bennett page:
“7 out of 10 people are satisfied with the help they got from barnevernet. If you don’t believe me the statistics are openly put up on bufdir’s homepage.” She got among others this comment: “Inform yourself objectively, from various sources, and draw your own conclusions.”
She answered: “I have done that. And my conclusion is that a 70% satisfaction rate is pretty good, and definatly better than in most countries.
This may seem odd for people who aren’t used to the Norwegian culture, but most people in Norway believe that it’s better too investigate family’s that don’t need it than to let one child grow up in bad conditions. I understand that people are sceptical but I honestly believe that it’s the best option that we have to protect children against parent’s that unfortunately can bot see what’s best for the child. I lived both at home and in fostercare and I love both my biofamily and my fosterfamily very much. I didn’t loose my mom, I just gained more people that loved me.
I’m ethnically from west Africa. Of course there are mistakes made by barnevernet, but most of what these anti-barnevernet groups are saying are complete lies. It upsets me deeply because I know that there are so many like me who got great help from barnevernet. There should be an open discussion about what they are doing wrong and how to change it, but to have an open and serious discussion you need the facts first. And most of these groups are not spreading the facts but complete lies. This ruins any chance at legitimate debate.
I first came in contact with CPS when my mother asked for help since she was a single parent with a small network.
I don’t remember exactly how okd I was, but I think I was around 9.
They helped us a lot, I got a support family once a month, tutoring at school etc. I didn’t get placed until I was about 12, my mother was not a horrible mother, but she was not able to see what EMOTIONAL SUPPORT I needed. They really did other alternatives to fostercare first, I was gor example first placed with my aunt, but that did not work out.
My mother unfortunately still is not able to see that moving me was the best thing for me, she is still angry and hurt and believe’s that COS was out to get her. I know that moving me was the right thing to do. I was still allowed to see her (most kids in CPS are allowed to see their families)
And I could call her when I wanted.
After becoming a mother myself I am even more convinced that it was the right thibg to do.
You wrote that some of the people don’t know why their kids are taken, that cannot be true since everything CPS has on your family has to be written down and is considered the evidence when presented to family court.
Wich means that you have everything CPS is worried about in writing.
Secondly, it was said that CPS takes children, they do not. CPS investigates the case, then if they are worried enough for the child to think thst he/she should move they have to send the court to familycourt/fylkesmannen
There it will be a trial where CPS has a lawyer and witnesses and the biological family has their own lawyer and witnesses.
There are three judges usually one head judge, one psychologist and one random person from the general public.
Only in cases where there is suspected Physical violence or sexual abuse may the child be taken without a ruling from the courtsystem.
You say I better hope CPS never looks my way, actually they have. They found nothing was wrong and they closed the case.
In every system that relies on human beings mistakes can and will be made, and just like there are children growing up in families that are not good, where they are beaten or abused. There are also children that get moved from their family that shouldn’t have. Both are equally sad and frustrating.”
Of course Norway wants and has tried to export its child care system!! Kari Killen was translated in many languages for the ex-communist countries. Apart from her very successful seminars, here is her book in Romanian, and it was highly regarded… https://www.scribd.com/doc/50776739/Copilul-Maltratat-Kari-Killen
Knut, Romania had been under communism for many years. You cannot expect them to be prosperous over night. On the other hand, Norway’s prosperity comes from under the sea not from Norwegians genial brains. On the other hand Norway boasts about itself that to have a genuine democracy, the freedom and the country to be one of the best to raise children, This Norwegian hypocrisy has no borders.
Norway is in fact a country that sponsors the destruction of families while showing the world a false image. You boast with your “high level of civilization” while you steal our children.
Hmmm….. been too long in Phonix; Octavian?? – these videoes is Czech and meant to Mr. Tomas.
Pavla, yes, Czech and Norwegian governments do cooperate in this field (children protection systems) , but what´s wrong with it? I would say:nothing, we can learn from each other.
The point wasn´t that CPS in Czech republic, Norway or Netherlands never do wrong (they do in some cases) but that many accusations are false, untrue . See the document about Netherlands where is claimed that children were taken away from family just because they speak Russian at home… such a nonsense. And debate about Norwegian CPS seems extremist to me as well…You are one of the few participants who discuss in a “normal way” and your arguments are understable..
CPS can´t decide about a removal of children, it must be agreed by a Court or an independent judical board in Czechia, Norway and I think in Netherlands as well. The child usually doesn´t lose contact with her or his family (with exception of violent and serious cases, the frequancy of contacts is a Court decision) and to his or her siblings. Even in sad cases- when children don´t live together under one roof- they have some visitations and may communicate together. I.e.In (in)”famous” Czech- Norwegian case of Eva Michalakova we know where the boys live, we know names and adresses of foster parents ( one in Drammen, the other in Asker- Asker lies app. 20 km from Drammen). And we know that the boys see each other every 3rd week or more…It´s far from perfect and I prefer strongly not to place siblings in various foster families, but it is not about any conspiracy or kidnapping of children…And more: Norwegian governemnt is unhappy with too low numbers of foster caregivers from a child´s extended family, Norwegian newspapers critizes some actions of CPS quite regulary- I would repeat that Norway doesn´t want to export a system which is not considered as a perfect one in their country.They don´t say: Just copy our system! Fortunatelly…
And I don´t understand why we don´t try to fix our system at first. Our newspapers write about Norwegian CPS, but they are mostly silent about Czech vulnerable children and their fate (with some exceptions).
Veronica,
Why would any country want to learn from the Norwegian CPS system? You sound like you know Norway’s system.
“It´s far from perfect and I prefer strongly not to place siblings in various foster families, but it is not about any conspiracy or kidnapping of children.”
This is a huge understatement. I like it that you would prefer strongly not to place siblings in various foster families. However, there have been far too many cases in Norway where the case should never have gotten to this consideration. The children should have been left with the parents…period. It would have been the best thing.
You wrote:
“I would repeat that Norway doesn´t want to export a system which is not considered as a perfect one in their country.They don´t say: Just copy our system! Fortunatelly…
And I don´t understand why we don´t try to fix our system at first.”
I certainly hope exportation of such a CPS system is not considered.
Amen to “I don´t understand why we don´t try to fix our system at first.”
God’s blessings…
Marianne comments above:
“I must confirm what Pavla says: Norway does spread its ideas of child protection, and they do it by offering money to develop cooperative “projects” which all go in the same direction. Several countries in Eastern Europe are into this, at least Estonia, Lithuania, Romania and Czechia. Norway is not alone in spreading this Western-developed-welfare-state notion of social work, that is all.”
So who is right, Veronica or Marianne? I know nothing about Veronica but I do know about Marianne. I believe Marianne (and Pavla).
Chris I think that Veronika means, that you would not just copy paste a system that seems to have big errors. Especially now, when it comes to surface. Though this project was signed long before Barnevernet got all the negative attention, at least on the scale as today. Czech do have their own problems, we have a big amount of small children living in the institutions, CPS sometimes does not act properly and children stay too long in families where they are harmed. Sometimes its not easy to adopt a child, if a biological parents have contact with the children. Contact can be a post card sent to the children every now and then..
The way parents raise their children is changing too into more liberal one, though it can hit the other extreme. The last thing we want is to have a cult of a child.
I remember talking with a friend of mine, he raised his children in a very liberal way, considering it was 80s socialism and something quite unknown. He told me lately, that the way he raised had also faults., he and his wife absolutely did not want to follow the strict method which was usual in that generation, but they went completely other way. So the children did not have fixed points in their life and it had caused them troubles while growing up, insecurity and they were kind of lost. It went ok with all of them, but I found it interesting , that he could look at his own raising method with critical eye.
Thank you, Pavla, for trying to clarify what Veronika states. Perhaps I shouldn’t have mentioned you as it is mostly Marianne’s words that seem to contradict this statement by Veronika:
“I would repeat that Norway doesn´t want to export a system which is not considered as a perfect one in their country.”
Marianne agreed with your statement about cooperation and added:
“Norway does spread its ideas of child protection, and they do it by offering money to develop cooperative “projects” which all go in the same direction.”
So, either Norway spreads or doesn’t spread its ideas about child protection. It seems to me that if they are funding “cooperative projects,” that the answer would be in the affirmative.
Your story about the man being able to look at his own life critically is very interesting. We all need to have that ability. As a Bible believer, adjustments are constantly made based on our latest understanding of God’s Word and how we live our lives.
God’s blessings…
Chris I think it was the plan, to implement the norwegian chidcare system in other countries, but the project was signed before BV hit the media and got negative attention..or at least on the scale of today. Maybe they wanted to change just parts of the Czech system, I dont know. For sure they want to increase amount of foster parents and have more small children placed there rather than in child institutions, because that is better for small children. We have too many small children in institutions.
Thank you for explaining the situation further.
God’s blessings…
These rules you are quoting, Veronica, are the way it looks on the surface. Reality is not like that.
It does not help, in any way, children who need to be rescued from intolerable conditions, that the CPS goes after quite different children and produce psychobabble diagnoses as a reason for taking them away from their loved ones. The majority of cases in which Norwegian CPS take children have nothing to do with dangerous conditions, abuse, drug abuse or the like.
Get rid of Norway grants! and if you are involved yourself, find something else to do which does not saddle you with guilt for having destroyed lives!
In the article below I showed very clearly that it’s to justify an extreme by another extreme:
http://romaniantimes.com/index.php/phoenixaz/1128-with-barnevernet-norway-is-going-south.html
The fact that CPS does not intervene properly in certain countries does not give the right to Nazi Barnevernet to confiscate children for trivial reason just to show that they have activity. Knut Nygaard is trying to justify Norwegian CPS’ abuses by showing us that unlike CPS in some countries Barnevernet at least is doing something. Removing children from good families for trivial reasons and giving them to strangers still remains a crime for which Norway must be punished and it will be.
Even if it’s in Czech Republic the principle remains in place: it’s senseless to justify an extreme by another extreme. I don’t think what you showed in those videos is normal practice in Czech Republic. Nonetheless, the Barnevernet’ cases we condemn here is normal practice in Norway since more and more abuses are revealed.
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Knut Nygaarad, why are you linking a video from Romanian (I think gypsy) woman to the Czech MEP. So you choose this to show the standard of living in the whole country? First, Romanian language is completely different from Czech, not even in the same group of languages. Second romani people (gypsies) are a specific ethnic group, who were always living on the edge of society living nomadic life style. You had them too in Norway btw. Many central and eastern European countries tried to assimilate them without much success. But to be fair, the problem is on both sides, why it is true that the gypsies have very specific way of living, , the societies have prejudices against them, sometimes grounded, sometimes not.. A lot of them have lack of work moral and low education, but for example in Czech Republic many of the children end up in special education, while not all belong there. But it is true that there are also others who try hard and are received with prejudices.There are many programs and organization who are trying to solve this issue. I hope their situation will get better. They are excellent musicians for example. Few years ago a gypsy boy has won Czech superstar (singing contest). One would not expect it in country like Czech republic, but it happened. I think it is important that they have their role models who are showing them that it is possible to be successful.
Knut I am not envious at all. I am pretty happy living in the Netherlands and before in Czech Republic. I dont need a nanny state to interfere in my private life. I treasure that way too much.
Netherlands – I don’t know very much about the CPS in that country. When I think of Netherland I think of skating, tulips, another drug politic than Norway, more sex trafficing, more sexual freedom and … cheeese. But they too have a CPS that do their job as we also try in Norway.
Here is a clip from a hearing in the European Parliament 19,02,14 regarding child abduction by Dutch social services that give us some knowledge of the CPS in your surroundings and how internal laws are looked upon in a larger European context,
Here is another clip from the UK – “Families flee from the social services in the UK”
Nehterland is in many ways the free state for drug abusers and those with special sex preferences, but where in a European context do we find a country that acts as a free state for those who are afraid of the CPS or can’t take orders from a national level or authority?
The hypocracy against the Norwegian CPS is enormous and unreasonable.
Well,statistics put Barnevernet on top of the list for stealing children from their biological familly and that fact changed the every day life for many people arround the world,we don’t want this to happen in our countries that’s why we protest because we consider Norway guilty abusing human rights by atacking the week,we try to give a voice to these desperate parents and we know God is in our side.
Please show me that statistics that compare our CPS with the other Western nations and with nations like the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. To take something out of statistics we also need to know something about the laws in the countries. In Norway f.i. we have as a help measure that children can stay another place than home with their parents for a limited time – “When the conditions in the second paragraph are satisfied, and provided the needs cannot be met by other assistance measures, the child welfare service may also arrange for a place in a foster home, an institution or a care centre for minors. However, if it must be assumed that the parents will be unable to take proper care of the child for an extended period, consideration should be given to deciding immediately that the child welfare service shall take the child into care under section 4-12, first paragraph, instead of voluntary placement under this section.” This help measure is done withour taking the care over and the parent(s) may stop this measure when they want – the CPS may disagree and a case for the county board is settled. We consider § 4-4. 5 junction as voluntary – § 4-12 not voluntary.
I quite agree that statistics are interesting. However, I do not think anyone should let Mr Nygaard ask them to provide statistics for him. Since he thinks he knows just about everything relevant because “he has importantly worked in a CPS office” and others haven’t (or at least not been permanently employed there), I am sure the office he works in can help him.
Norwegian CPS defenders regularly do this, say in a commanding way “Show me” whatever it is, to insinuate that critics know nothing. This is an attempt at side-tracking because they have no honest defense. Rather, it is up to them to prove that whatever other countries may do wrong, Norwegian CPS is white as the driven snow. And of course they ain’t, so he can’t. Of course it is rather revealing, it seems to imply that they admit the charges, just blaming the critic for the same. Yes, we steal children to benefit ourselves, but you steal children too! – Such a “tu toque” defense will not help him.
I don’t think there is any help to gain from my office. I have my 20-30 children to offer our services to – the office has a geographic area to conduct our services to – we provide statistics that are sent to the national statiscs agency. I don’t think there is any statistics that show the differences in a context of differences in each nations national law.
I can agree to one thing – the human factor. As individuals we – as the rest of us – might differ – and also differ in our professional conduct – leaders can differ – legal advisers can differ – lawyer a.s.o. as we all know and have experienced: teachers can differ. I also think one municipal can differ from another with regard to the levels for f.i. emergency – I suspect the level in Naustdal far lower than in a city.
Lene Skogstrøm is a journalist in Norway. What did she have to say about Norway’s CPS (barnevernet).
A growing number of experts who come into contact with the Norwegian child welfare services (Barnevernet) are beginning to understand that, in many situations, the system is far from safeguarding a child’s best interests…..
….We see frequent examples of where the agency emerges as a dysfunctional organisation that carries out extensive miscalculations which have serious consequences.
– Steven Bennett FB post
Several times now, Mr Nygaard has been riding two horses. He thinks the Bodnariu case is a case of serious violence. At the same time he also “hopes” for them, and recently he has taken to saying that the Naustdal CPS office probably has a lower threshold for taking children away than his own office. While he still maintains that everything every CPS office does, is beyond criticism.
One must admire such an ability to hold opposite views at the same time.
I have seen the same thing, Marianne. He continues to make conflicting comments. It is the way of the propagandist.
I do agree on one thing though. There is a difference among the social workers, lawyers, psychologists etc. as in any other professions. I also believe there is difference among the the counties. Good social workers and others involved in child care (the ones with knowledge and understanding) should be praised, they do their job, but they help the families. The ones that abuse power and damage families should be punished. I understand that mistakes can happen, but to cover up mistakes by other mistakes is a crime.
Me – and our islandic horses – those were the days – Mrs Skånland. We both agree that violence was the reason for the emergency. How serious? – I have said I don’t know, but if it’s for the most part is parental violence and the parents have admitted most of it I have said a couple of times that the family most likely had been reunited months ago if it had been up to considerations done at my office – that – if there is nothing hidden under the carpet. I have also said that the parents have nothing to fear if their lawyers had given the green light to talk to Norwegian media.
I have said that in Naustdal CPS there was a total of 27 concerns in 2014. My guess is that the Naustdal inhabitants – 2700 total – produced few emergency concerns.
At my office we had in 2014 a total of 475 concerns. We have around 37000 inhabitants to offer our services to. Some weeks we have several emergencies. My guess is that this situation give us an experice of level that the Naustdal CPS don’t have in the same way. Our two legal advisors work inside our office. The municipal lawyer for Naustdal work in Bergen – several hours of traffic away. He have this municipal as one of most likely many customers.
Yes, every CPS employee and office of cause try to do their best.
I wouldn’t comment on any of this below except that Mr Nygaard falsely presumes things about me:
Nygaard: “Me – and our islandic horses – those were the days – Mrs Skånland.”
Sounds downright schizophrenic.
“We both agree that violence was the reason for the emergency.”
No such thing! Nygaard is the one who keeps repeating this – although he also repeats that he has no insight into the case.
“I have also said that the parents have nothing to fear if their lawyers had given the green light to talk to Norwegian media.”
What devious nonsense – they would on the contrary have given the CPS and the courts even another “excuse” to keep the children away, at the same time that exposure in Norwegian media would not have helped them in the eyes of our servile press and our lazy, state-admiring public. One has to write oneself, or go to foreign media the way the Bodnarius have done.
Me – and our two horses – are the two icelandic horses my wife and I possessed in the 70′. It was with referance to the two horses in a comment that made Skånland a part of that sentence.
Of cause it is the violence part that is the indicator for the use of criminal law § 282 and the child welfare act 4-6, 2 junction – what Skånland agree’s to is not so interesting. She has no influence on any ongoing case in Norway. I have the insight of the Costea version, but I don’t know if that’s the whole or real version. To me it looked like a speech for the parents.
I read Skånland to be paranoid – she do not trust the Norwegian state at all and the media is in the hands of the state. That is wrong. Had the parents spoken to f.i. Lene Skogstrøm the family would be united months ago.
I suspect Skånland and the movement to be pleased with the martyr situation and rather use Bodnariu for a case to get attention for their agenda to remove the CPS and … then what??
And I am not afraid – Skånland and the movement of CPS-haters have no interest in the common Norwegian society. It’s lunacy.
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It is not the first time Mr. Nygaard states two opposite views…. It just shows that he’s not trustworthy.
The fact that Mr. Nygaard presumes that the Naustdal CPS has a lower treshold than his own CPS office, only confirms that those working for the Norwegian CPS do as they like and don’t go after the rules.It is not a good sign if parents risk having their children confiscated by barnevernet in one place whereas they can keep their children in another place.
Are you and they really trying to do your/their best, Knut? Why do you take away children because you presume that the parents might be doing something wrong?Or you figure out that something could just happen to go wrong because of the parents unhappy childhood, for instance? And then, after some months or years you find out that the parents were not so bad after all. So they could get their children back again. But you believe it is best for the children you took to stay with their fosterparents . After all, they have been there so long , and have hardly seen their biological parents ever since you took them away…
Don’t you see how wrong this is, Knut? You are sending children back and forth, here and there like parcels. First you take and then you say that they might get back what you took. This is not the way you are to treat people, Knut! Children are too precious and fragile. Only when you are really sure that children have been abused or seriously neglected should there be valid grounds to take a child away from their parents.
Hello Hildi,
How in the world you don’t see that they are so unprofessional and they do a lot of mistakes with the life of children and families? Everything gravitate around money and cover up. They fabricate charges and lead the children to testifie, so they can maintain their charges. Their action is not an open onest one. The law enforcement helps them too. Children Poaching Service I call their deservice. They act like retarded. You cannot prove wrong a retarded.
I don`t know if you have misunderstood me or I have misunderstood you, Aristotel. I agree with you. It is very bad what barnevernet is doing! They seem to be going around with a magnifying glass looking into any family to see if they can find something they can blame parents for and make a case out of.
Especially now as Easter is coming,it is so sad to think about all those children missing their parents and parents missing their children. My thoughts and prayers go especially to the Bodnariu family. I hope and pray that barnevernet will at least let them see each other on this very special Christian holiday.
Sorry, you right in what you said. Knut is two faces and no shame. Personally I don’t believe him. I cut him too many times lying like child. He better fabricate better lies. Blessings.
Knut,if you are christian, Christ tells you to resign from Barnevernet and repent and work in a place that provide a good service for others and from your earnings help the poor people too.
This is a good point, G m. He is a puppet that can choose to cut his strings. I don’t know what he has done in his job, but he needs to repent for what he has done on this blog. Repentance means to turn; it is the activity of reviewing one’s actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs. Until he has asked God and all of those here whom he has taunted for forgiveness, he will be guilty. Instead, this instrument of Norway’s CPS continues to defend evil deeds.
Good advice!
A from Finland told me that Finnish people visit the libraries more than any nationality in the world.
http://saltmin.com/2012/05/06/interview-with-sofi-oksanen-an-internationally-well-known-finnish-writer/
That’s because daytime is very short and the weather is very cold.
Is that the case in Norway too? Here are some beautiful sunsets in a state in which the sun shines about 300 days per year:
http://www.azcentral.com/search/sunsets/
This is what I’ve read: “Industrial town of Rjukan gets no sunshine between September and March”.
Down at the bottom of the valley, where Rjukan lies, that is quite true. It was an industrial town created because the waterfall gave the possibility of building a large fertiliser factory there. (The heavy water which the Germans wanted in the war is a by-product of the fertiliser production)
But there is a cable-car in Rjukan, leading up to the mountain plateau, and there is plenty of sun there, and lovely skiing terrain. Plenty of people now keep apartments there (they used to be permanent dwellings) and go for week-ends and holidays, skiing in winter and tramping in the mountains in summer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rjukan
Hope in the future it will be safer to travel to bring my 5 kids to see the beauty of Norway ’cause now is pretty scarry .
This is totally off-topic, but allow me just a tiny bit more since Norwegian geography and climate have already been mentioned:
I should have said, Octavian, that of course the further you get away from the equator, the more difference there is between night and day in the summer as well as the winter. Oslo is on 60 degrees latitude, and with perhaps a slight exaggeration you could say that in summer we have 6 hours of night, in the winter 6 hours of day. Just now daytime increases by 5-10 minutes per day, I should say. The change is greatest around equinox (it changes like a trigonometic function). There is a little about summer nights here:
“About the song “Summer night by the fjord” (Sommernatt ved fjorden’)”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page119/page119.html
(Click into Ava Glenn Pope’s “Astronomical dating …” too, it has lovely Munch paintings.)
Oslo on 60 degrees latitude – – Nato has for many years had a station at Kolsås in Oslo. The regulations for American Nato personnel is that they receive an extra arctic allowance if they are stationed anywhere from 60 degrees or more north (or south, I presume). So the American Nato people in Oslo were, I think, quite happy with their Arctic placement here.
What makes the climate here quite different from what it is on similar latitudes in the north of the American continent, is of course the Gulf Stream, which travels across from America to Western Europe, all the way along our coast and up. Even in Finnmark, our northernmost county, they can have hot periods in summer, if they are lucky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnmark
Thanks Marianne for clarifying that. It seems like Norway is comparable to Alaska to some degree.
To work with humans in a municipal service is best done when we find the right levels and balance in what we are doing. All municipal profession can do wrongs and some are more serious than others. We are easy to target if we do too little and likewise if we put too much into it.
You mentioned Lene Skogstrøm – Mr. Truth – and had I been the Bodnariu’s lawyers I would have recommended her if they had given the green light months ago.
She has among other been a member of a project – “Project violence done against children”. Norway have in the latter years experienced serious crimes and killing of children in their homes. Christoffer was abused to death at the age of 8. The Nes-case where three boys were sexually and violently abused by their parents for years. The CPS in many municipalities looked into it. The employees in the kindergarden saw that something was seriously wrong. But – it took years before the boys were moved to a fosterhome. In Larvik was a mother to three strangled and thrown in the ocean by the father. During the the following court session it came to reality that the three children over years had been violently abused by the father. Two of the girls tried to tell others about their situation at home, They who got the message did nothing. Thus the violence proceeded for years and stopped with the mother strangled. The children in this examples of serious cases where no one did what they should have done.
Another example is the Monica case. A 11 year old girl was found dead in their home. At first the police believed the stepfather had done in, but the case was dismissed with the conclusion that the girl had comitted suicide. This case have been reopened after inside information. The stepfather is no in prison.
A 10 year old living with his mother died because of hunger – likewise a 13 year old girl living with her mother in a cabin.
How could these things happen without anyone doing the right thing?
When we or the police get a message – a concern – we don’t know whether it’s fish or birid – we don’t know how serious this is, but we know something about the consequences. These serious examples give influece to do enough rather than to take chances.
I see Octavian write about Finland – in that country I or others that should have done something to prevent abuse done against children and don’t have done our job are prosecuted. In the case in the article below 11 public service employees are taken to court – CPS’s, doctors, nurses for betraying Erika – age 8 – abused and strangled by her parents. In this case the CPS had received at least 11 concerns from neighbours and the school. In the hearing the CPS was pointed out as the great sinner. Three employees and their leader were accused. If found guilty the can be sentenced to prison for three to eight years.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/I-Finland-straffeforfolges-de-som-ikke-hindrer-vold-mot-barn–men-ikke-i-Norge-7801766.html
If you done something wrong you have to admit it ,apologise and stop doing it.Barnevernet doesn’t work that way.They don’t care if they done mistakes they will not listen to anyone.THIS HAS TO CHANGE!Before it gets contagious.
“No longer slaves of fear movement” –
Mr Nygaard is devious, mostly by omission:
“At first the police believed the stepfather had done in, but the case was dismissed with the conclusion that the girl had comitted suicide. This case have been reopened after inside information. The stepfather is no[w] in prison.”
There is a huge difference, statistically, between step-parents and biological parents as regards of child abuse. That is probably the best relationship investigated properly. Step-parents are even 100 times as likely to abuse stemp-children as biological parents to abuse their own children. The difference is greater the more serious the abuse. There are very many good studies, most of all from America.
http://www.mhskanland.net/page62/page131/page131.html
So the death of Christoffer Kile is no proof against biological parents as the best protectors, quite the contrary.
“A 10 year old living with his mother died because of hunger – likewise a 13 year old girl living with her mother in a cabin.”
Mr Nygaard’s choice of this 13 year old girl as an example is rather special.
He does NOT mention the 12/13 year old girl who died in a foster home close to Naustdal, where the parents had begged for medical treatment, and where foster parents and the municipality responsible for the CPS concerned have been reported to the police. An investigation is going on. Some articles: http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=8171 . Sorry you have to rely on google-translate.
Instead, Mr Nygaard does mention this 13 year old girl who died from malnurishment at New Year. She was quite rightly in a mountain cabin with her mother. A cabin fully equipped for winter living – perhaps Mr Nygaard wanted to intimate that it was primitive living. The story is this: The daughter could no longer tackle going to school. She was anorectic, the anorexia having developed because she was severely harassed by other pupils at school.
The mother was arrested and the police went for her immediately and wanted her kept in jail, but the court said no. Doctors have come forward to say that sudden death is not quite unusual in such cases because the heart (possibly other organs too?) get too little nutrition and can collapse. The mother has tried to help her daughter for several years, among other things by having her committed to several medical institutions to get her to eat, and the mother has begged e.g. the school authorities to take action against the harassing. They had not done anything, nor had the CPS, which had also been involved. Well, the CPS have no medical knowledge or proficiency whatsoever, and they regularly go against medical advice if it does not point against parents, so what could they do, but the thing is they tend to CLAIM that they can. Regarding anorexia, CPS circles have for many years promoted the view that it is caused by “cold parents”, a very dangerous “diagnosis”, and one for which they should certainly be imprisoned if they use it to justify some action.
Various articles about the case: http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=136&t=8121
Once again the propagandist has used underhanded tactics to achieve a goal, which I assume is to “educate” (brainwash) all of us. I only read about half of what he puts here now as none of it can be trusted. One thing he has achieved; he has convinced me of his deceitfulness. His double-dealing character has been consistent throughout this blog conversation.
Miorita USA (Sacramento, California) about Barnevernet:
http://www.mioritausa.news/?s=barnevernet
“They helped us a lot, I got a support family once a month, tutoring at school etc. I didn’t get placed until I was about 12, my mother was not a horrible mother, but she was not able to see what EMOTIONAL SUPPORT I needed. They really did other alternatives to fostercare first, I was gor example first placed with my aunt, but that did not work out.”
Can someone pls. explain to me, what that means.. Her mother was not a horrible mother, but she was not able to see what emotional support I needed?
One of the most used guidance program is COS – Circlel of security – as a help measure. This guidance program is like many others from the States – here is an introduction video – you find a lot of stuff with the help of google
Hi Pavla,
Just my two cents here. It means to me that the system chose to allow a child to make a decision over the parent. As this person claims “my mother was not a horrible mother” there must not have been physical or emotional abuse. Spanking maybe. When a system allows young people to make decisions about a child’s well being over that of a good parent, it is abusive itself.
God’s blessings…
The girls story in her own words is in a comment I made posted on this page. The girl is a mother no and her view is that the possibility to inherit her mothers way of daily caring without emotional support was broken.
As I have said in an earlier comment the hardest for me as a CPS cases to conclude with the taking over part is those where the parent(s) try to do their best and with measures involved don’t alter the situation/ their daily care. When drugs, violence and sexual abuse is involved it’s much easier to handle as a human. In many of these cases I as a CPS have had over years and months a good cooperate relationship. The process towards taking over is not hostile and in many cases we end up with an agreement and the CPS handle it without the parent/lawyer and us physical – what is called “forenklet behandling” – simple processing. For the child this make the removal easier – so for the visiting too.
A child shall be heard in the cases where the care situation is at stake and have a spokesman – from the age of 15 the child is given full legal rights and is like a parent represented togheter with a lawyer in the county board.
The CPS does its best to force a lawyer they approve of on a minor to represent him/her in court. It’s parallel with the way they want their own allies to be “spokespersons” for children who are too young to have a right to their own lawyer.
Some of you can read Norwegian – the spokesman in CPS cases came out a case I handlet in 1997 – called “The Knut case”. A boy grew up mostly with his grandmother and uncle as a private arrangement in a period over years where the mother was drug addicted of the most severe kind. No one – not her lawyer – not me – nor the grandmother/uncle thought she ever could be in a posistion to get rid of her abuse.
Like many others she ended up in a treatment among pentacostal Christians established of the romani Ludvik Karlsen. You hear and see him on this video – here he speaks about his mothers faith-
He got the Kings medal deserved for good action to the nation. In his early grown up life he was an alcoholic – he was homeless – and he was a prisoner. He and his family was saved during a revial meeting. He became a radical Christian. During the period 1975-83 around 500 romanies got saved. He established treatment for abusers both of alcohol and drugs in places he called The gospel center. In 2003 there was around a handful or more of the centers – 300 was employed and during 20 years had 25000 addicts got their treatment. Many was saved and in the treatment they met this changeing atmonpshere – the people you see is a mix of employees and addicts in treatment.
The mother got saved and totally changed in a period of about six months. The grandmother got worried and wanted to be a fosterparent with the help of the CPS, In the county board we met a healthy revived mother and they didn’t give the care to the grandmother/uncle. They kidnapped the boy who was around the age of 8 and were on the run for months. The boy was eventually after a half year taken to his mother and husband found at The Gospel Center around a half year after the county board had made their dicission, During this period one of the themes discussed in the media was – what about the boy and his considerations?
http://www.ba.no/nyheter/mormor-nekter-for-kidnapping/s/1-41-295049
You – who can read Norwegian find the circular her
Click to access Rundskriv_om_barnets_talsperson_med_merknader_til_forskrift_om_barnets_talsperson_i_saker_som_skal_behandles_i_fylkesnemnda_for_barnevern_og_sosiale.pdf
Marianne,
I can’t even wade through the long, discordant thoughts of the propagandist anymore. I did see this comment:
“…from the age of 15 the child is given full legal rights and is like a parent represented togheter with a lawyer in the county board.”
Do you know, Marianne, when a 15 year old doesn’t feel his/her parents are good enough, gets a lawyer and is successful at gaining “freedom,” if the Norwegian government provides living expenses for the teen?
We do it our way – you do it yours. I think most of the readers get a lot of real information reading my comments. I am a single CPS from the movement where you have made our CPS the main target for inhumanity in the world. Most people understand that this don’t make sense. You have to be an activist who have lost your sense of focusing and reality sense to believe in this alligations against a functionate CPS,
You have in most of your comments nothing to tell regarding the content of facts given. You do as activist’s do – praise your comrades whatever they say and attack the one voice personally – not the content of my comments. I think the reader have seen this and are able to make the considerations and conclusions themselves.
Your way
The propagandist is once again putting words in my mouth. He stated:
“I am a single CPS from the movement where you have made our CPS the main target for inhumanity in the world.”
This is a lie. I am aware of many human rights violations. A story that few heard because it wasn’t in the mainstream (thankfully as it may have emboldened the savages) was that a priest ‘kidnapped by ISIS’ was set to be crucified on Good Friday (yesterday). It hasn’t been reported if this happened as I write this. Christian prayers for Father Tom have gone up worldwide. This is one of many such abuses that are occurring everywhere.
There are many reasons to pray and communicate with those who are like minded. We fight on many fronts.
Am 8 copii si cred asa cum spune in sfanta scriptura ca , copiii sunt darul sau binecuvantarea data de catre Dumnezeu familiei si asta inseamna ca nimeni in afara de Dumnezeu care mi ia dat nu are dreptul sa mii ia cu atat mai putin niste asa zisi oameni, pentru ca Barnevernet nu pot fi pusi in randul oamenilor . Ma alatur tuturor familiilor indurerate si ma rog ca Dumnezeu sa le Vina in ajutor . Norvegia trzestete si curata pata asta de mizerie de pe obrazul unui popor ce poarta numele de crestini . Nu asteapta sa o faca Dumnezeu caci va trebui sa platesti pana la ultimul banut
I left a comment at this article, published three days ago on thelocal.no
http://www.thelocal.no/20160323/most-norway-church-members-not-christian
It says that most Norway church members are not Christian.
I read the article and saw your comment, Octavian. Thanks for sharing.
As I have mentioned in another place on this blog, this is really what is at the root of this problem. When one asks members of a church if they are a Christian and most of them say “no,” there will be huge problems across the society. Since their is one dominant church in Norway, it makes the problem that much worse.
Chris: “Do you know, Marianne, when a 15 year old doesn’t feel his/her parents are good enough, gets a lawyer and is successful at gaining “freedom,” if the Norwegian government provides living expenses for the teen?”
It is mostly not a case of the teen not feeling that his/her parents are not good enough. Rather, it is a teen who has been taken by Barnevernet, is held prisoner by them, wants to go back to his/her parents, argues for that (by means of a lawyer and also as a witness) in a county committee case or a court case, the case usually raised by the parents in order to get the child back. If the child does not get the committee/court’s sanction to go home, the child may flee the foster home or institution where it is placed, but it will never be left in peace by the CPS, who will send the police to search first and foremost for the escaped child and bring it back to CPS care by force.
Cf point 20 here:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html
Thanks, Marianne.
Then things are worse than I thought.
There are many case situations to be considered – one is – the teenager wants a change because of the neglect in a mix of parental care/behaviour and the violence coming out of it. Another is that the parents says the child do as it wants – don’t listen – walk right through them out to live it’s own life – get new and risky “friends” – don’t go to school – begin to take alcohol and drugs – don’t respect anyone – stays out at night – don’t cooperate at a help measure level – then we are in a situation leading up to the use of our behaviour §§ -: here the considerations end in a conclusion – either voluntary or forced – and the main individual in this case is the child concerned:
Section 4-24. Placement and retention in an institution without the child’s own consent.
A child who has shown serious behavioural problems
– in the form of serious or repeated criminality
– in the form of persistent abuse of intoxicants or drugs or
– in other ways
may without his or her consent or the consent of the person with parental responsibility for the child be placed in an institution for observation, examination and short-term treatment for up to four weeks, or for a shorter period as determined in the order. In the event of a renewed order, the period of placement may be extended by up to a further four weeks.
If it is likely that a child as mentioned in the first paragraph is in need of more long-term treatment, an order may be made to place the child in a treatment or training institution for up to twelve months without his or her consent or the consent of the person who has parental responsibility for the child. In the event of a renewed order the period of placement may in special cases be extended by up to a further twelve months. The child welfare service shall continuously monitor the placement, and reassess the measure when the placement has lasted six months.
If the placement has been implemented before the child reaches the age of 18, a measure under the first and second paragraphs may be implemented in the manner decided by the county social welfare board, even if the child in question reaches the age of 18 during the period of placement.
An order under the first and second paragraphs may only be made if the institution has the expertise and resources required to provide the child with satisfactory assistance in relation to the purpose of the placement.
Section 4-25. Procedure in connection with orders under
section 4-24.
Before making an order under section 4-24, first and second paragraphs, the child welfare service shall consider whether assistance under section 4-4 should be implemented instead. The child welfare service shall also plan and implement such assistance as is necessary as a follow-up of the stay in the institution.
Orders under section 4-24, first and second paragraphs, shall be made by the county social welfare board under the provisions of Chapter 7. Interim orders may be made by the head of the child welfare administration and by the prosecuting authority. Section 4-6, second, fourth and fifth paragraphs, apply correspondingly.
The child welfare service may refrain from implementing an order if the circumstances justify doing so. The county social welfare board shall be notified accordingly. If the order is not implemented within six weeks, it lapses.
Section 4-26. Retention in an institution on the basis of consent.
A child with serious behavioural problems may be admitted to an institution that falls within the scope of section 4-24, first and second paragraphs, also on the basis of his or her consent and the consent of those who have parental responsibility for the child. If the child has reached the age of 15, his or her consent is sufficient.
When a child is admitted to an institution on the basis of consent, the institution may impose the condition that the child may be retained in the institution for up to three weeks as from the date of admission. In the event of admission to an institution with a view to treatment or training lasting at least three months, a condition may also be imposed that the child may be retained for up to three weeks after consent has been expressly withdrawn.
If the child absconds, but is returned within three weeks, the period of retention is reckoned from the date on which the child is returned to the institution.
The child’s consent shall be in writing and shall be given to the management of the institution at the start of the stay at the latest. Before giving his or her consent, the child shall be informed of any present conditions as mentioned in the second paragraph.
Marianne,
“Do you know, Marianne, when a 15 year old doesn’t feel his/her parents are good enough, gets a lawyer and is successful at gaining “freedom,” if the Norwegian government provides living expenses for the teen?”
Even if this is the minority of cases, do you know the answer?
The propagandist mentions defiant youths “placement and retention in an institution without the child’s own consent.” In this case, the answer to my question would be “yes.”
What about the 15 year old who has good parents but doesn’t want to live with them for something minor. As it seems the teen is a person who has full legal responsibility, can’t one of them move out and live on their own? If so, does the government supplement such behavior? I don’t expect you to know the answer to this. I am only curious.
Many of our teenagers give the day the parents broke up as the day of change. I have met many that take the guilt on them and cut themselves. Many change their habits to handle the changes coming out of father or mother moving out and a stranger moving in – new kids in the following and the stranger might have their own either for living togheter or visiting. As individuals teenagers handle this and other stuff from their childhood differently – ok for one – hell for another.
Of cause – moving out as the last resort – is also the situation for a teenagers. Relatives – change to a living with the other parent and it’s family – if moving out is agreed upon as the best for the child from the parent(s), the child and if in a CPS context – us.
Some parents come with their teenager and asks us to take him into care – fix or repair the child and then they will say that they consider a return. We then say – it’s you as parents that are the responsible ones – not us. We can give you a supportive help measure that is available 24/7, but the child stays at home. In some situations we say that the parents should consider a sick leave because of the efforts that are necessary to prevent the situation to move from A to C. Then the next 6 months will tell us if this will work for the best for the family as a whole.
Yes, Chris, they may go to the CPS and complain. If they are not sent home again, they may wind up in foster homes, sometimes receiving a heck of a lot of ‘pocket money’. I have come across instances in which one youngster who has been in such voluntary CPS care (but later had that used against her when she herself had a child), recommended a teen-ager to ask the CPS to go to a youth home too, because ‘then you’ll get a lot of money and can use it to set you up with a fancy apartment’. Likewise, if they want to stay on after 18 in a foster home, the foster parents continue to receive money also, and I have heard of cases in which this foster ‘child’ and the foster parents share.
You shall not believe all you hear, Skånland – especially when you proceed is as truth for Mr. Truth. Money – I don’t know – many of these children are not accustomed to get any regular money from their parents so … but I have heard some say that our ecuippment list is tempting. A fosterparent get as us others for work done – the fosterparent must do some kind of work to get money. Yes, when we act as “parents” we of cause do it in a proper way – what’s wrong with that?
Not surprising, Marianne.
Norway’s CPS system has many angles of influence.
The propagandist sees no problem with making money off of the corrupt system.
It’s the same here in Sweden! Everywhere where The CPS exist!! Human Trafficking by Mafia/gestapo ….
@ childadvocatesweden,
In Sweden, England may be the same as in Norway. In other countries, though, there are very rare cases when children are removed for trivial reasons as they do in Norway, Sweden and England. Here is a video that I would like you to recommend:
“Mirjam wants her mother. Stop legal kidnapping in Norway!”
By the way, what’s the name for CPS in Sweden?
All of us have nightmares with Norwegian Barnevernet now but it does not harm to learn a little bit about Swedish CPS system.
And the CPS’s in Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium. France, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Romania, Moldovia, Russia, Hungary, Phonix a,s,o.
I think its more extreme in some countries than others.
Knut said that sometimes parents come themselves and ask for temporary placement of their child because of problems. I can agree on this. I know from my experience a family, where the mother has asked for temporary placement of her teenage child. But it was..as said..temporary. Actually I would be worried, that a temporary measure would turn into a permanent one..
Well, I think it’s a mistake for a parent to ask CPS’ help in Norway. They will do their best to find motives to keep the children permanently. I know they encourage parents to ask for “help”…
Teenage placements have three legal parts and it’s how the child behave that is dominating for what’s possible. These placements are more practical than emotional. The child knew who it’s family and parents are – the parent(s) know that they for ever are a part of the child’s history. At the age of 18 the child is by law considered a grown up and can voluntary ask for possible help from the CPS up to the age of 23. The child must have some CPS history to get that approval.
Wow, I can see that after CPS of Norway help that children need help until they are 23 years old. I think they need help until retirement age.
In America most children are considered adults after 18th birthday. They start driving with parents consent at the age of 16th and want to work as soon is possible. All of my children start working before finishing high school and continued in college and finished one or two majors in engineering. They didn’t wait for handouts. Got educates trough hard work. Of course I was behind them in what they accomplished. Never heard about CPS, until my Norwegian friend told me over ten years ago. I couldn’t believe that something like that can happen.
“I think they need help until retirement age.”
Well stated, Aristotel.
Aristotel: “Wow, I can see that after CPS of Norway help that children need help until they are 23 years old. I think they need help until retirement age.”
Aristotel and Chris: You are more right than you even know!
It emerges again and again that those who have been foster children either make a bee-line for their parents as soon as they can, or they complain that they want more “help” – that is more fostering and more money from the CPS. This is what we hear from a couple of State sponsored (!) organisations of foster children and former foster children. That is the only major thing they seem to think is “wrong” with the CPS. These groups the Minister and all other politicians and all mainstream bureaucrats listen to with respect.
At the same time all statistics which come even close to being reliable show that the net result of care under Barnevernet is such that “help” is certainly needed. We have for example listed the following:
“The ideology of the CPS har been built on pure speculations without a basis in reality. The CPS obstinately resists learning from or even reading the real research literature, which shows catastrophically poor prognoses for children placed in foster homes or institutions. Living under CPS care gives children a markedly elevated risk of:
• a lack of experienced happiness and meaning in the period of growing up, because the child is not allowed to live together with those for whom it has a nature-given, mutual love and a feeling of belonging together,
• missing family solidarity and kin solidarity in adult age,
• divorce and other falling apart of their own family established as adults,
• actions from the CPS who take away their own children,
• suffering maltreatment and abuse in foster home / institution,
• poor education,
• unempoyment,
• homelessness,
• early disability pensioning,
• physical and psychiatric illness,
• early death, suicide being one of the causes,
• alcohol and substance abuse,
• a criminal career and prison sentences,
• a general experience of maladjustment and an inimical attitude towards society.
Such poor future prospects are also valid for children taken from their parents at birth. In other words, the parents’ treatment of their children before the transfer of care is not the reason for these negative developments.”
(http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html)
A bit of direct statistics:
“Ellen Kjelsberg in 1999 published a series of articles about the investigation of the later history of about a thousand youths who had been through treatment by the ‘child and youth psychiatry’, including the use of foster homes. Only 23% made it through the following 15-30 years without either going to prison, or being put on early disability pension, or dying – some through suicide, or a combination of two or all three of these results.”
(http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page231/page231.html)
Thanks for the facts, Marianne.
The propagandist here has implied more than once that Norway is superior to other countries in its handling of certain issues.
You wrote:
“In other words, the parents’ treatment of their children before the transfer of care is not the reason for these negative developments.”
The results of Norway’s CPS system are devastating and barbaric.
I am very concerned that Norway’s situation will grow worse if oil and natural gas prices continue to decline. Chaos could be the result because of the way the CPS is setting society up for failure. Things are bad enough there as it is.
In spite of the bad news, I don’t think Christians should live in fear. We have way too many Biblical promises from God that he knows more about our situation than we do.
How many have counted the number of hairs on their heads?
Ok, bald people, you don’t count. (pun intended)
In Sweden it’s simply “Socialen” (the social [service]). They do not have a specialised unit dealing particularly with just child protection questions. Sweden has long been in the lead in child protection atrocities, even if Norway has caught up and is far more visible at the moment. There were several cases against Sweden for ‘child protection’ at the European Court of Human Rights before Norway, cases in which Sweden was found guilty. And they have far from improved.
It appears that the European Court of Human Rights hasn’t the power or the will to stop these atrocities.
Thanks, Marianne.
Quite right, Chris, the European Court of Human Rights has no power to enforce anything. It is supposed that when a state is found guilty, it will understand that that is a shameful thing and will mend its ways, both in the individual case, in other cases, and in legislation. In practice both Sweden and Norway have notoriously shrugged their shoulders and ignored such judgments. I think I may have troubled you people before with this little reference, but nevertheless: http://www.mhskanland.net/page45/page46/page46.html
It is an excellent article, Marianne.
Looking at the date on the article post, I realize that I am a rookie compared to you on this topic. Hopefully, I can be a quick learner as this issue seems to grow larger every day.
“Sweden has long been in the lead in child protection atrocities, even if Norway has caught up and is far more visible at the moment.”
Wow. There is a lot of education that needs to take place worldwide.
God’s blessings…
Chris: “Hopefully, I can be a quick learner as this issue seems to grow larger every day.”
It’s at least interesting, Chris, and there’s nothing mysteriously “techincal” about it – the psycho-babble may SOUND impressive but isn’t.
Since we are talking about Sweden too, let me try to sneak this one in on you:
“Child prisons? In Sweden?”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=987
“The Paulsen-Medalen case was heard in The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg on November 24, 1997. The ECHR delivered its verdict in March 1998. The only ‘crime’ that the Court found Sweden guilty of was that the Supreme Administrative Court took two and a half (2 1/2) years to hand down its decision not to review the care case.”
Why is the world not aware of what is happening in Sweden? The people must live in fear there as they do in Norway. These stories are heart breaking. The ECHR is not only is powerless, when it renders decisions like this it “speaks” volumes. There is no shaming those who run these child abuse systems. They have hardened hearts.
Thanks, Marianne.
Thanks for sharing, Octavian. This video makes me sick and rightly so.
This is not true, Knut! We have a very large community in Austria for instance. There is not even one case in which CPS confiscated children from a member of our community. The same in Phoenix. CPS exists all over the world but what’s happening in Norway is beyond any imagination. As it is shown in the above video, there are more many cases of teen pregnancy, drug addicts etc in foster homes than in biological families. In countries you mentioned, if there are real abuses (not counter fit ones like in Norway), the children are given to the extended family (grandparents, uncles, cousins etc). There are a few countries in the world that claim they are the most democratic countries on the planet. Norway is one of them. In contrast with what they claim, they are breaking apart families for any reasons, they separate siblings, they totally isolate children from their background culture, language and entity. Norwegian abusively remove immigrant children from their families and force them to become Norwegians, they brainwash them.
And they call it “genuine democracy”. Too bad we didn’t find about Barnevernet earlier. Knut, I assure you: if Barnevernet will not stopped and rebuild a more humane CPS, the number of the people who will constantly condemn Barnevernet’s actions on social media and main stream media will soon exceed the population of Norway!
We can live with that, but be sure to be well informed before you think you know thw truth.
NOVA have done a comparison of the Nordic countries up to 2010 – f.i. the trends for the taking in care part:
Denmark: The number has varied a lot through the 1990′ – 2000′, In 1990 it was around 11 of 1000 children – a high number in Nordic context – then the number sank and in 1996 was around 9 – so came a raise and in 2001 Denmark was back to around 11 – in the years thereafter around 10.
Finland: During the 1990 Finland had economic problems. The welfare state had harder times and there were less economy to offer services. This gave problems to a lot of families and the number of children living under the UN standard as poor was trippled. This also trippled the number of children given help from the CPS. Also the number of children taken into care has increased since the middle of the 1990′. The number rose from around 7 to around 9. The raise for teenagers were even higher. The number of instittutions and professional forsterhomes rose indicating that the children taken in care had difficult behaviour. It is also possible that Finland had a problem with the recruitment of general fosterparents.
Iceland: Have a tradition that familes and relatives help eachother when needed. This is also done in the CPS, Difficult children were sent to farms during the summer. It’s first in the last decades the CPS has been professionalised legally and institutionally, In 2006 there was registered 800 placements outside the home – that was around 10 of 1000 children,
Norway: From 2000 there has been an increase from 6,9 in 2002 to 7,6 in 2006. SSB ( our national statistics) give the number 7,9 for 2008. Teenagers are behind half of the placements.
Sweden: In 1995 the number was around 7,8 of 1000 children – in 2004 increased to around 9,1, 59% av all placements were done for teenagers.
LInk: Barnevern i de nordiske landene – HiOA
Well said, Octavian. I didn’t hear something like that in my part of the world. Live in Oregon US.
Aristotel, can you talk to your Norwegian friend (neighbor/coworker) to visit DIT here and write a comment with his story? I would publish it in order to further expose the system.
Yes, I will talk with him about. I had in my mind to ask him to share his story but right now I live about 65 miles away from my previous place of living. Every time I’m going to the coast I stop by his place. He lives in Seal Rock, Oregon and I live in Corvallis, Oregon.We did live as neighbors in Seal Rock. I actually bought the house he built for himself in Seal Rock. He told me that if will have the opportunity he will be delighted to help reveal for the whole world to know about Barnevernet atrocities. He said that Barnevernet is very powerful and a lots of persons lost their license to practice their vocation in law. Their influence is over the whole world. They bought anything money can buy to fulfill their concepts.
Why must you use a neighbour of a commenter to tell you something about the CPS is the Nordic countries? It isn’t that hard – to google. The hard part is to study facts – reflect – set it in the context of what is the purpose of what you want with these facts – and so comment.
An example: sweden child welfare system – give a lot of information – the job is to f.i. select – what are facts and what is more activist information made out of a bias. This might take you a day or two, but you are closer to the Truth than hearing what a neighbour of a commenter have in his/her mind. Good luck, Mr. Truth.
True testimony, not the rewritten Barnevernet history and propaganda or lies spoken by paid off Barnevernet slaves Mr. Knut.
Hey Aristotel,
Off topic…I went to college in Portland, Oregon. You live in a beautiful state.
I did live in Beaverton that is SW of Portland for about 6 years. Had a home in 102-ND Ave. by Canyon Rd.when I had to go for some classes at ITT Clackamas for CNC programing.
Yes, I know Beaverton as I had some friends there. I went to Concordia College in Portland. I was in Oregon for five years approximately.
Slaves. Aristotel?? – we have no history of …. slaves … and we are all
Knut, to be understood I will explain myself how I get my informations. When I want to find about Bengazi, I don’t take my informations from Hilary Clinton, when I want to know something about wars I talked with the survivors coming back from that war, when I want some informations about Stalin I talked with the survivors escaped from the Russian gulag, and I know more than I want about communism. When I want some informations about Barnevernet I don’t look for Norwegian Nazi propaganda that had the power of money to cover up but I talk with people escaping that gulag. But what I am surprised is that there are people calming as being Christians joining the evildoers to cover up for their atrocities. Crafty schemes doesn’t work for me, I can smell them from distance ,doesn’t matter how sofisticate technology they use to refabricate the facts. So, I am not scared about anything as I was not scare of the communists when after they killed my brother I had maximum one month until to be eliminated, me and my family. I have a team of Scandinavians right now that I can get informed about your Paradise. Doesn’t look good is the paradise of Satan on earth with the capital in Oslo.