“You Have to Say It or We Will Never Be Finished”

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Delight in Truth is shocked to discover that leading questions form the basis of CPS interviews with children in Norway.

Imagine the following scenario: a 6-year-old girl is kept for 4 hours in an interrogation-style room with only a psychologist and a video camera. The psychologist wants to extract a confession from the girl to the effect that her stepfather abused her sexually. The girl denies it 22 times and she is even surprised at some of the questions.

Then the shocker: the psychologist tells her she will be able to leave the room only after incriminating the stepfather.

“You have to say it, you see, or else we will never be finished.”

After much hesitation the girl agrees to the psychologist’s version of events, but never actually repeats those events herself. This graphic video exists on Ray the Man YouTube channel.

As a result of this forced and false confession, the girl was removed from her home and fostered with various parents. The 6-year-old girl is now age 19 and has seen the video with her deposition from 13 years ago. Imagine seeing yourself as a little child being manipulated by an adult in a position of authority to agree to something that never happened.

The young woman watched in amazement and confirmed that words were put in her mouth. She also explained that it was so unpleasant being in that room, that she resigned to saying anything to escape the situation.

This is what Barnevernet does. This is how they interview children. We are not surprised that one of the Bodnariu girls said: “I do not know what else to make up” during her CPS deposition. The CPS then turns around and uses data from these coerced confessions against the parents… If the children only knew the real reason these leading questions are asked of them!

I am writing these articles in the hope they will be read by Norwegians. We must get this message inside Norway because these methods of interviewing children are not acceptable. They constitute parental and family rights violations.

Barnevernet methods violate human rights.

92 comments on ““You Have to Say It or We Will Never Be Finished”

  1. Evil, evil, evil, CPS of Norway earned without doubt the name Children Poaching Service. Worst than I thought. Now Norwegians come out and tell us your stories. Let destroy the evildoers and lock them in jail forever. Make them pay for the overdue destruction of so many families.

  2. Some people that are aware of the Barnevernet abuses still believe in the impartiality and honesty of doctors, teachers, psychologists, judges etc. Unfortunately they all have all been instructed in the same way as Barnevernet. They have been schooled by the same psycho-babble. The entire ideological structure must change too. The current system that can easily condemn innocent people. In Norway CPS is a big business and not many people seem to care that this business is based on injustice done to many responsible families. Confiscating children, by state agency, for ridiculous reasons does not seem to be very alarming in Norway. The parental rights are almost nonexistent in this country.

      • The subtitles only last through half of the video, but it is enough. I like both of these guys. I like the questions and many of the answers. That a specialist with as much or more training as most in Norway’s CPS sees severe problems is not surprising. I think an uneducated person with common sense and ethics would see these problems very clearly.

        • I think this video is one of the best on this subject. Mr. Salvesen explains very clearly, what is wrong with the whole system. Thank you Raymond for the subtitles. I have watched even the Norwegian part few times and have a feeling, that I am starting to understand some Norwegian words 😉

  3.   
    Good that this story is shown again and properly exposed abroad. This has been on tv, completely publicly, but never led to any change in public policy or any proper shaping-up of our lawyers and jurists.

    Some information:
    I never heard before that the man was the girl’s stepfather, I thought he was her father. But it doesn’t really matter: As an adult, she joined with him in having the case taken up again, and he was exonerated.

    When she watched this video of what she had been exposed to, she said of the psychologist: “But she is sick!”

    The psychologist is not any worse than the profession is, though. The incredible thing, it would seem, is that Norwegian authorities have never reacted properly to the information that is evident from this tv program AND OTHER INFORMATION LIKE IT which has been available all along. Psychologists like that, and all the other people in health professions, and judges and prosecuting lawyers and others who conduct or take part in cases like that comdemning the father, are never taken to task. On the contrary, that psychologist went on to be the admired leader of a so-called “trauma centre”, where they not only treated people who had been subject to abuse but told people with various troubles that they suffered from repressed memories of sexual abuse. The psychologist has received special honours, a medal from the King (in reality the government). Here it is on the news:

    The trauma centre was finally closed, among other things because a number of patients said that the treatment had made them worse, not better. But this whole philosophy has lived on and is today in the lead again. Accusations of incest is a major one in many Barnevern cases, and the “proofs” are again of the psycho-babble kind. Our “knowledgeable authorities” will not face the fact that sex abuse by own parents is rare, that children are in much more danger of sexual abuse in every other environment than with its own biological parents, and that one must demand actual proof. Step-parents, it is true, are very different from biological parents on that score; nevertheless the whole incest-and-abuse-industry is so misguided that innocent people are certainly put in prison, and Barnevernet is in the thick of it. Sometimes they manage to have the case taken up and are exonerated some years later, but new cases continue.

  4. This is very disturbing. Its clear, that they can get any testimony from any child if they use such methods. So obviously this still can go on until today? The way she is defending herself saying, that…it was a teamwork and they did not want to give up on this until they get explanation on the medical findings.
    Absolutely unacceptable.
    I wonder, what reaction this causes in Norway among people? Don’t they question the whole system then? Obviously as Marianne says, the authorities do nothing.

    Esp. after reading articles where BV clearly makes false reports. Like here, where they claimed that the report claims, that the child has a bad relationship with the mother, while all the time that child wanted to return home.
    http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/05/28/nyheter/innenriks/barnevern/39283632/

    or here http://www.nrk.no/vestfold/vant-mot-barnevernet-_-far-datteren-tilbake-1.12811762

    And what do they have to say once caught? “We are convinced that we do our work well, we have good procedures, but we can always get better.”

    This is how far they go with self criticism.

    •   
      The reaction among Norwegians? Almost non-existent. We are a very self-satisfied nation, particularly because we are now so rich (from oil-revenues) in addition to being “right about everything”. Alone in waking the Norwegian public, and our main-stream media, even a TINY bit are the reactions abroad.

      The first article you link to: Yes, Arne Seland, the lawyer, has done a good job for families in several cases.

      The second article: The CPS and the municipality stick to their opinions – their “procedures” have been excellent, they are sure, or so they say.

      • Thanks Marianne, one would hope, that videos and articles like these would trigger some attention which would lead to questioning of the procedures. Though I have the feeling that it is changing in the last months? At least according to the comments under the articles.
        I still dont understand , how can CPS and municipality think their procedures were excellent, in the second article.
        Even the court was very critical to their work.
        Obviously to admit mistakes is not acceptable in Barnevern? Even in the other cases, they would just defend their original opinion instead of trying to correct their faults.

        • They continue. They pay lip-service to “improving our methods” but facts show how unreal that is.

          Mr Nygaard is here again, I see, this time to assure us that CPS workers sit behind one-way mirrors monitoring questionings of children. I leave it to you to ponder what kind of assurance that is about the excellence and competence of “child expertise”.

        •   
          Actually, the fact that you brought up that first article in a comment above gave me a push to finish a translation of an article by that lawyer, Arne Seland. I had talked to him weeks ago and got his permission to publish an English version but I kept postponing it. Translation is quite heavy work, at least to me. But here it is:

          “Barnevernet – the child protection service (CPS) – should not be given more responsibility”
          http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8210
            

      • Thank you Marianne, for the article. I realize that it is a lot of work to translate articles. A very good article from Mr. Seland and it was published in 2013 already. Has he won in other cases as well? To find a good lawyer is not easy, I guess.

        • You’re right, it’s not easy. But worse than that: The lawyer can be very good and still there is a high chance he / the client loses the case. The courts are pretty obedient to the CPS. Lawyer’s textbooks on child protection teach the official version.

          Yes, Seland has had more cases, at least I have known his name for some time, though I don’t remember any particular cases at the moment.

  5. I will warn you to draw conclusions after watching and heard a sample from something showed on nrk 08.12.03. One sample often in the activist world = so it is all over.
    In Norway we had the Bjugn scandal as you in the USA saw satanists in the 1990’s saw satanists all over the continent.
    Today we have 10 Barnehus ( Children houses) located in our largest cities – central places – over the nation. We are above 5 mill. inhabitants in a nation, Octavian – you are around 4 mill. in Phonix. Today we in the CPS sit behind the mirror as the interrogation go by.
    http://www.statensbarnehus.no/
    The sample was no good. We try to improve. At our office a lot of the younger ones take the training course “Barnesamtalen” – To conversate with children”. I have listened to dommeravhør – judges questoning – where I have thought I would not have liked to be in myself as a child – this was back in 1993 – I think.

    • You are still here, Knut? I guess you will help us learn more. It is obvious that things have gotten worse rather than better since this material was known. We all know what you are now. Why bother?

  6. According to a new Youtube video documentary; Child services under fire in Norway/Focus on Europe; “In Norway twice as many children are placed in homes and foster homes per capita as in Germany for example” (3:30).

    This alone, I believe, should be a cause for concern that something is not as it should be with the CPS in Norway. The documentary has also got many other interesting points and is worth watching.

    • Like in Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Great Britain, Netherland, Germany, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other nazi/communist/faschisti/isis countries – if you go to you tube and “cps” you can watch similar videoes to they who the cps-haters/activists show all the weekend if you like’
      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=child+protective+service&page=1
      I took a look at an educative video – “Would you like to work in the CPS?” – from Texas – and I think we in Norway should produce information that give out some faces and real information of our daily work
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9lcadJJqNM ( hmmm… we in Norway is not that .. fat)

      • Yes, there are problems in other countries, Knut. You aren’t responsible for those. You are responsible for the actions you take within your own country.

        • No, I have around 30 cases to handle all the time – that’s my share – I can’t take respinsibility for others cases – neither can a policeman – a doctor – a teacher a.s.o..

        • So, Knut, you are able to spend and average of less than 1.5 hours on each important case a week and you still have time to spend spreading propaganda on the internet?

      • Knut,

        I raised five children in Canada and as a responsible parent sometime I had to spank my children or “emotionally abuse” them by ground them from various children activities.(computer, video games, etc.). They are all adults now and they all come to me every now and then thanking me for being a responsible parent for raising them the way I did.
        Sure there are problems with Canadian CPS but to snatch the children from a family it’s beyond my imagination.
        Can you explain your organization(Barnevernet) tv commercial when it comes to hiring foster parents ? Have you seen it ? If not I can tell you what’s about.
        It’s about a cowboy using his lasso to snatch a baby cow. Not far from the truth right ?
        God bless you with wisdom Knut…with wisdom from Him…You are blind at the moment.

        • I once had a colleague who had worked in the CPS in an indian reservate district. He told me that they picked up neglected children as we see dog cathers in a Disney movie. The parents were on alcohol most of the time.
          Spanking is forbidden by law in the Scandinavian countries. It’s history. Today some grown up men take their history of years of spanking to the media after their parents are dead. There is shame attached to such stories as this one:
          This one is called “Fathers hand” – a hand the son was afraid of most of his life, but he had to take his fathers hand into his to comfort him in the last hours of the fathers life. The hand of a abuser.
          http://www.vl.no/meninger/kommentar/fars-h%C3%A5nd-1.692011
          No, I doubt we are that creative. I found these:

          You too – His wisdom is with me both at home and in my working hours.

        • There are bad parents in every country, Knut. You can’t take the stories of the bad parents to excuse the heinous behavior of your employer.

    • Florin, în America law enforcement officers are trained to handle situations end exercise wisdom. You cannot compare what happens in USA and what happens in Norway. I know first hand a lots of nice stories about police officers doing what’s right. My friend is a state police officer and they help construct not distruct. They will shield families if they will encounter abuses like what happens in Norway. They will make sure CPS are doing what they suppose to do in a lawful manner. Norway is 100 years behind and still think they are in front.

  7. I raised five kids in USA, and as far as I know I never heard something like I heard happening in Norway. We have the right to discipline our kids not abuse them. Spanking was required sometime. Is a fine line between disciplining and abusing. America is completely different than Norway. They exercise wisdom and like anywhere else there are bad cases where the CPS had to help but not based on not founded reasons. What happening in Norway is beyond imagination. They act as terrorists and the enforcers are brutes like in the Nazi time. The difference is that the Nazi didn’t do that to their own people.

      • Neither in Norway. We have just around 200 CPS-haters – some with diagnosis – who hate the CPS and other public services. By doing so they get “therapy” from people ouside Norway believing this is some kind of reality. You have just the same in your own backyard. Around 20 of these are what we can call activists who believe they know something from the outside looking in. Then again – we have a couple of self-proclaimed specialists – and around 10-15 videoes – the rest is from other places in the world. “CPS in Norway may vary bey municipality, but generally people in Norway do not call CPS for ridoculous reasons.”

        • Yes they do, Knut. You guys have created the environment where the Bodnariu case happened. Without any merit! You guys take children because they do not smile enough or because there are not enough toys in the house. Or because a tooth came loose and started bleeding when the mom took the t shirt off. Ridiculous.

        • This is the environment of beautiful Naustdal

          If we shall be really private you find the home to the Bodnaru family here
          http://www.1881.no/elektriker/elektriker-sogn-og-fjordane/elektriker-naustdal/marius-bodnariu_103099693S0/kart/#
          The police and the CPS in Naustdal is not me – it’s the municipal CPS service on this exact place. The children in this family both smile and have a lot of toys. The public services involved handled this in accordance with criminal law § 282 – violence in the family – and in accordance with the child welfare act § 4-6, 2. section. The daughers told a story that the parents have partly confirmed. The ridiculous part is why – if all cards are on the table – this can’t be handled with measures given at home – that is my opinion – from the outside looking in, but I don’t know all the details and have not seen any documents from this ongoing case.

        • Knut, please..Just recently two children were returned to the parents. They were both taken away from parents as small babies (2 months and 9 months) Also those children were suddenly removed from the parents. Mind you, Barnevern did not help the parents to reunite, it had to be decided by Court and by County board. It took months and in other case the whole year to get the children back. No violence in any of these cases. So please stop telling us, how taking children is the last solution..

        • I have a question. What do you tell to the children, when you take them from their homes or schools? What reason do you give them? What do you tell them when they ask about their parents, grandparents, friends? What do you tell them, after they were able to see the parents for 2 hours and the parents leave?
          I wonder. Also how do you isolate teenagers? I can imagine, that it is not such a problem with small child, but a 12-13 year old? Do you actually take away their phones, forbid them internet, so they can not contact their family, follow them everywhere they go? Seriously? This statement is quite true I guess “They think a child is a flower, you pull it out and plant it somewhere else”:

        • knut, you definetelly are an abusive cps worker! The worst one! Like you nazi sistem! you make me so sick and in a urge need to vomit!

        • Your numbers are way off, Knut. The world is becoming aware of what is happening in Norway.

          I don’t hate the people working for CPS. I hate their sadistic and ungodly decisions.

        • Knut, even you agree that the reason for taking the Bodnariu children is ridiculous. What the parents have confirmed (they are Christians and had no intention of lying) is that they padded the kids on their bottom. You keep calling that violence, which btw, I think is ridiculous. That is not domestic violence. If it is against the law in Norway, then CPS should just adivse the parents not to spank the kids on their bottom and leave them alone.

          Move on to cases of physical, and sexual abuse, alcoholism and drug abuse.

          CPS is destroying a good family here.

  8. We can clearly see the same old scenario coming from the Children Poaching Service (CPS) of Norway. Their primary goal is to take away children – lots of them – from the biological parents, and to continue the human traffic business that they’ve so well designed. It’s all very obvious – school educators, psychologists, police personnel, etc., are joined together within the CPS network, and they all work hand in hand to make sure that they snatch away as many kids as they possibly can. All of the evidence presented thus far in regard to the CPS practices lead to this conclusion.

    I urge everyone on the social media network to bring this situation to the attention of all international forums, including the United Nations. EVERYONE needs to know what is happening in Norway, and possibly throughout Scandinavia.
    At the same time, we also need to boycott any products coming from these countries.

    • You must understand one thing – Norway as a nation have no intention to snatch anyones kids. We have laws and public services and possibly you have some of that in your surroundings. The child welfare act is based on the principle that a child belongs to it’s family. Removal is only done when all help measures given to the child and parents don’t alter the care. This may take years. Nobody have any intention to use the tax payers money on purposes not needed for. This official care is not cheap. It’s much cheaper for the nation not to take care of any child. It’s only you that are misguided – the rest of the world knows the truth both about Norway and our CPS.

      • Knut Nygaard,

        The Child Welfare Act that you’re talking about is only a “theoretical” document that Barnevernet presents to anyone questioning the Norwegian CPS system. In reality, Barnevernet’s practices speak otherwise…
        You’re saying that the Child Welfare Act states that “a child belongs to its family”, and that “removal is only done as a last resort”. Had the Norwegian CPS followed the Child Welfare Protocol, that you so proudly present and defend, then we wouldn’t be having a Bodnariu case in the first place – or any other Child Poaching case for that matter!!!
        The truth is, the Child Welfare Protocol documents say one thing, but behind the closed doors Barnevernet operates with a different agenda. We know… and the rest of the world needs to know this as well.

        • An that was considered an emergency and a possible criminal act and thus treated in another way. This is also in accordance with the child welfare act § 4-6, 2. section – when the CPS have been given information from the children of violence done by the parents the CPS can’t return them to people that might give then more vilolence the same day or the days to come.

      • We are not talking about all Norwegians, Knut. We are discussing the CPS. It snatches kids from the most vulnerable families. We do know the truth.

  9. Just few minutes ago I had a conversation with a finish gentlemen who came to install a Valmet machine and he is traveling all over the world and he told me that similar situations happened long time ago in Finland but they reformed the system and use wisdom.Norway is far behind of the time. He added that the Norwegians are mad people and they lack wisdom. He is right from what I realized with you Knut.

    • He is not right regarding Finland, though. The situation there is pretty awful and has been getting worse over the 20 years I have been engaged in this field. We do not get direct reports quite as easily because of the language difference, but certainly we get reports through well-informed and competent people in Finland.

  10. I got more informed from people living in Scandinavia and they told me that Christianity in Norway is a joke and the liberalism is on high stand, so no wonder about your value Mr Knut. In my view the liberalism is a mental disorder so no wonder about all the deranged Norwegians. The ones that want to keep their integrity leave. I want to know more about the subject, so don’t leave Mr Knut. The horror stories about the Children Poaching Service didn’t end. We want to be informed about. You are a good source. Don’t forget that we read between the lines. Lie as much as you want.

    • I usually don’t talk with people with your kind of “language” problems. Use the language to express common repsect, so maybe we can have a dialogue.

      • You don’t deserve respect Mr. Knut. I don’t respect people that doesn’t tell the truth and the people that pretend to be something they are not. Children Poaching Service defenders doesn’t deserve respect.

        • Neither do teachers, police, nurses, doctors, kindergarden employee’s, lawyers a.s.o. – you usually talk to yourself?

        • Which teachers, nurses, doctors, kindergarden employee,, lawyers? The ones that work for Children Poaching Service? The one that said the truth was forced to quit the job to preserve his integrity. They are hunted, terrorized and forced out of job and of the country. I’m talking about Mr. George Alexander as a exemple. Worse than in communism. Shame of you Knut. Are you blind or without any moral value? Norway is a totalitarian country worst than North Koreea,, Vietnam or Russia. Is a whole list of people loosing their jobs and informed that the only right is left for them is to breath the air in Norway. I tell them to get out of Norway for even the air is poisonous.

  11. Knut Nygaard,

    1. In the Bodnariu case there wasn’t any evidence of violence.
    2. In the Bodnariu case, like in the video above, the children were being manipulated by the psychologists to say what Barnevernet wanted to hear, so that the information could be used against the parents. Using misleading questions to manipulate the children – THAT IS A CRIME that Barnevernet committed!
    3. And here is the final truth that you and I know: It’s the supply and demand process, where the supply of children is running low while the demand for adoption is increasing, which creates a crisis in Norway. That’s why Barnevernet is so zealous to intervine and to solve this crisis. Barnevernet’s agents act much like the hyenas in Afrika. First, they check out which families and children make an easy target; second, they inform the CPS of their findings; third, they fabricate ridiculous reasons to support their child abduction actions; fourth, they go for the kill and snatch away the children from innocent families. THIS IS A CRIME – a HUGE CRIME THAT THE KINGDOM OF NORWAY IS GUILTY OF.

    Knut, you seem to enjoy these types of child poaching operations done by Barnevernet, or else you wouldn’t be defending this system. But I will tell you one thing: What goes around, comes around!

    • Are you a fly on the wall? Have you been in the archives of the CPS in Naustdal? Both you and I stand out the outside looking in and hoping for the best. We don’t know the details in this legal case between the parents and their lawyers and the CPS.

      • How many times does Delight in Truth have to tell you that we know the facts of the case, Knut? They seem to match up with the statement given by Ovidiu above.

      • Knut, we know the details of the case. I trust the family. They are good Christians. They have given the details to Cristian Ionescu who publicized them, and Antena 3 TV in Romania. Peter Costea, a family/human rights attorney from Texas reviewed the case documents. Other attorneys from Europe reviewed the case as well.

        THEY ALL AGREE that BV overreacted in an abusive manner here.

  12. Knut wrote; “removal of a child is only done when all help measures given to the child and parents don’t alter the case. This may take years . ” Really?????????
    This is how Knut and the other barnevernet employees are supposed to handle a case. But reality shows something quite different.They don’t stick do what they say. In case after case children are taken away from their parents as a first resort and not as a last resort. Just look at the Bodnariu case. They were never given a chance to change anything in the way they were bringing up their children. And they are far from the only case! As a matter of fact, parents who have never even done anything wrong to their children have their children confiscated simply because barnevernet believe that the parents have the ” potential” to harm their children. The reasons for these potentials may be the parents difficult past, a handicap or depression for instance.

    There are social workers working for barnevernet who quit because they cannot condone barnevernets evil practices. Those left to work for barnevernet are those with cold hearts made of ice. Those who don’t care about the lives of those 30 or so cases they have on their list. Those who get upset when you ask them a simple question about what the children feel when they suddenly, out of the blue, have police and barnevernet tearing them away from their parents and siblings. How I wish their hearts would melt…..

  13. Delight in truth, have you seen this? Matt and I were at the Christian store last night and this caught our attention. No offense to the Norwegian children represented in the program, and those like Marianne, but the last VBS I’d want our kids to be involved with would be one about Norway. It makes me wonder who developed this ‘bright’ idea (hopefully Knut was not involved).

    https://www.group.com/category/ministry-resources/childrens-ministry/vbs/expedition-norway.do

    Read this comment from under the video:

    JOHN MAN1 week ago
    VBS is about kids! Norway is not a kid-friendly country!!! Look up “Barnevernet”, their CPS agency who has confiscated and forcefully removed children from their loving homes without any reasonable justification. Children are commodities in that country. They’re being used to keep up a huge industry such as psychologists, doctors, social workers, police, judges, lawyers, etc. FAMILIES ARE BEING DESTROYED EVERY DAY in Norway. Breast-fed BABIES are snatched away from their mothers’ hands. It’s legal kidnapping and government is not doing anything about it. Most recent prominent case is the Bodnariu case. Do your own research! Get knowledgeable about what you educate children in your community!

    • I am sure everything is fine, until someone reports something to Barnevernet. A desperate mom messaged me today that someone reported her family to BV and they interviewed her kids for hours. They let them go home for now… You just never know in Norway.

      For that reason I cannot recommend a family vacation in Norway at this time.

      • It’s no more risk than in your backyard. From a distance we can all make up and produce fear. I have a friend that had a sincere fear of entering the USA because of the death penalty possibility. Seen dozens of movies of how easy it seems to be to end up on death row being innocent may from a distance make someone sweat, but living in the real surroundings do not give the people the same experience.

        • I think you know a lot about fear, Knut. Your employer uses it to take advantage of every kind of person. No parent or child is safe. This has created such fear that most Norwegians have been afraid to speak out in the past. This trend appears to be changing. I think that you come here because you are motivated by fear. Are you afraid if things change you will lose your job? Or is it something else? I am not a mind reader. What are you afraid of? Are you afraid that the truth may get out?

    • Manuela,

      This VBS program is made in Colorado in the U.S. My daughter is an expert in VBS materials. She has no financial gain to make in promoting this program. This is the 2nd year that group has done a cross-cultural (last year was Thailand) program for kids. You need to read the reason group chose Norway. My daughter read everything but the pre-school materials and it was one of the most Gospel centered VBS programs she has ever seen.

      This is from the Group website:

      “Norway is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. On the surface, it looks as if people there have everything they need—beautiful countryside, breathtaking fjords, rich oil reserves, plentiful jobs, abundant health, technological progress…but spiritually, Norway is incredibly dark. Only 2% of the people attend church. While a large percentage are official members of the Church of Norway, actual church attendance is nearly non-existent. Increasing numbers of Norwegians are turning away from the God who created, blessed, and loves them dearly.”

      Please be careful not to criticize something that is very good.

      God’s blessings…

      http://wwv.group.com/childrens-ministry/blog/vbs/crossculture-vbs-why-norway/

      • But Chris, there is every reason to take up with the Christians of Norway their blind belief in the authorities. You have a few Christian groups (usually conservative Christians) who take exception to the CPS’s actions, but most Christians are fervent believers in the authorities. And they judge CPS victims very harshly, believing that they must have done something very bad, failed in their care for the children etc, since the CPS has taken their children. Many parents whose children are taken are unmarried mothersand/or have a sexual morality which these middle-of-the-road Christians disapprove of. They seem more concerned that the mothers should be punished than that the children love their mothers regardless and should not be punished by losing her. Look at those people in the newspaper Vårt Land (Our Country), they are rigid supporters of Barnevernet, despise us all, and refuse to listen to any evidence.
            The gvt ministers of child affairs over the years have done practically equally much harm, but the most negative and judgmental of all to CPS victims were two who served consecutively under prime minister Kjell Magne Bondevik and belonged to the same Christian party as him. They did great harm to CPS victims and so did Bondevik.
            I think true Christians need to inform themselves really well about the realities of Barnevernet, and then tell Norwegian Christians something? The word ‘pharisee’ should be a warning to us all, or what?

        • Marianne,

          I don’t understand why you started your statement with “But.” It sounds like we have a disagreement.

          My previous statement had to do with a Vacation Bible School program that is very good.

          I will get to the heart of your comment with a question:

          Are Pharisees Christians?

          The answer is clear if one listens to Jesus’ words. He was harsher with the Pharisees and called them things he didn’t call the worst of sinners.

          Just because someone belongs to a church (like the Church of Norway) doesn’t make them a Christian.

          I am thinking you used the word “But” since you see that those who are confessing Christians are blind to what is happening in Norway. I don’t understand how a Christian can put the government over righteousness and truth. The Holy Spirit which resides in Christians should make it obviously clear that the cases mentioned on this blog are blatantly unjust.

          If you disagree with anything I have stated, please let me know so I can “speak” to it directly, however, I think we are in agreement.

      • Chris and I dont understand how a normal thinking atheist can put government over righteousness and truth either. I do have a feeling, that this barnevernet ideology is often viewed as connected with atheism. I have read quite a few comments on that lately. I can assure you that most atheists I know hate any ideology, especially communism. We have had enough. So that is another option, one does not have to be christian or religious in particular to disagree with it. I thought I have to state that since it started to look like a religious conflict. The Bodnariu case in particular, is about religion , but there are many other victims who lost their children to Norwegian Barnevern. Czech people are probably the most atheist nation in Europe, but still many of them disagree with a system that treats people this way.

        • Quite right, Pavla. (And I remember asking Jan Simonsen, who lives in Prague part of the year, whether Czechs are predominantly Catholics or Protestants. He said “Atheists!”) Czech politicians working against Western CPS are all sorts: Tomas Zdechovsky is a Catholic, I think, Petr Mach belongs to a conservative-liberal party, the president Zeman is a socialist; Jan told me that he had recently been contacted by representatives for yet another party who was on “our” road.

          So as a matter of fact, the same goes for political adherence as for religious views. Many people argue that CPS practice is part of socialism/communism. Yes, at least the collectivism, uniformity that the CPS wants is reminiscent of that. But certainly our conservative parties are as bad on this question as the socialistic ones. The same goes for Britain. My good friend Suranya in India has expressed similar thoughts (she and her family are well versed in politics, to put it mildly). She has found allies in the work they are trying to do preventing Western style child protection from invading Indian legislation and philosophy, allies from all sides: conservative Hindus, Christian leaders there, communists, feminists, traditionalists and moderns.

          The love there is between parents and their own children is so basic and important that it transcends many disagreements, I think. But with my background in a Christian culture, I am personally incensed when people who claim Christ to be all-important to them, seem to take such a different attitude to people from what he did. – Perhaps I should be more “impartial”, less “personal”.

        • I think Chris wants to convey that in the US Christians are more likely to fight for human rights and are more likely to stand up for family rights, especially the traditional family. The fabric of Europe is not as religious at this time, but everyone needs to see the abuses in BV ( after all, we believe God’s law is written in our hearts and we can all detect injustice at some level.)

        • Delight , I get what you are saying about American christians, but I dont know many of them to be able to make a judgement. I am pretty scared of fundamental Christians, but I get that these are minority. People like Rick Santorum, who was president candidate 4 years ago? I dont get it as he is completely mad. How is that possible?

        • Our system is functionate – it’s under constant evalutation and our press is the one that give this f.b. page the insight you and others seem to hunt down to smallest glimpse of something to blow up and out it’s propotions because it suits someones agenda. I can agree to your thinking that family as a value and system is under attack – but it’s not from the CPS – it’s from the spirit of time ruled out by this new age luciferic woman – Alice Baily,

          THE STRATEGY:- The 10-Point Charter

          PURPOSE: – To change Christian tradition or to redeem the nations of Christian tradition.

          1. TAKE GOD AND PRAYER OUT OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM

          Change curriculum to ensure that children are freed from the bondage of Christian culture. Why? Because children go to school to be equipped to face life, they are willing to trust and they are willing to value what is being given to them.

          If you take God out of education, they will unconsciously form a resolve that God is not necessary to face life. They will focus on those things the school counts them worthy to be passed on and they will look at God as an additional, if one can afford the additional.

          N.B. Today they introduce Transcendental Meditation (TM) in schools which takes children to altered states of consciousness to meet with demons (spirit guides) = New Age.

          2. REDUCE PARENTAL AUTHORITY OVER THE CHILDREN

          Break the communication between parent and child (Why?). So that parents do not pass on their Christian traditions to their children, liberate children from the bondage of their parent traditions (how?)

          a) Promote excessive child rights; (1997-1998 South Africa introduced Child rights legislation – UNICEF Charter; Today a child is able to say to parent ‘I do not want to hear that, I don’t want to do what you are telling me. Teachers cannot talk to children, children step up and say I have my rights, you cannot talk to me like that).

          b) Abolish corporal punishment; (this has been made law). On the other hand the Bible says “Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod and deliver his soul from hell.” (Proverbs 23: 13-14)

          N.B. Jesus said in the last days – wickedness will increase, there will be rebellion and children will not obey their parents. It is not a trend, it is organized.

          c) Teachers are the agents of implementation – from workshops, teachers tell children, “Your parent has no right to force you to pray or read the Bible, you are yourself, have a right of your own, you need to discover yourself, self-expression, self-realization, self-fulfilment are all buzz words.”

          In the West when the child is 7 years, the teachers begin to say to the child “you have a right to choose whether you want to follow the faith of your parents or not, parents are not allowed to enforce their faith upon you.” Question is, what type of decision can a 7 year old make?

          3. DESTROY THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE

          OR THE TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN FAMILY STRUCTURE (Why?).

          It is oppressive and that the family is the core of the nation. If you break the family, you break the nation. Liberate the people from the confines of this structure (How?)

          a) Promote sexual promiscuity – free young people to the concept of premarital sex, let them have free sex, lift it so high that the joy of enjoying it (sex) is the highest joy in life, fantasize it, that everybody will feel proud to be seen to be sexually active, even those outside of marriage. This is contrary to the word of God which says “… But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints… for this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.” (Ephesians 5: 3-5)

          b) Use advertising industry, media – T.V., magazines, film industry to promote sexual enjoyment as the highest pleasure in humanity.

          Have they succeeded? Have they done it? If you want to see whether they have succeeded or not, go to the advertising industry, it does everything to catch your attention and today almost no advert comes out without a sexual connotation. Even when they advertise ice cream, they must show you a thigh of a woman and a bikini, they must do something to set off a trail of thoughts. They will show you more thighs than ice cream. Why? Because, that is what must be in the minds of the people.

          N.B. Advertising industry pops out so much money towards their advertisements to the T.V. and radio.

          4. IF SEX IS FREE, THEN MAKE ABORTION LEGAL AND MAKE IT EASY

          Build clinics for abortion – Health clinics in schools. If people are going to enjoy the joy of sexual relationships, they need to be free of unnecessary fears, in other words they should not be hampered with unwanted pregnancies.

          ‘Abortion as told by Christians is oppressive and denies our rights, we have a right to choose whether we want to have a child or not. If a woman does not want the pregnancy, she should have the freedom to get rid of that pregnancy painless and as easy as possible’. Today it is not only accessible, it is forced. Today abortion is a strategy to curb population control together with the use of condoms and ‘pill’.

          5. MAKE DIVORCE EASY AND LEGAL, FREE PEOPLE FROM THE CONCEPT OF MARRIAGE FOR LIFE.

          Alice wrote over 65 years ago that love has got a mysterious link called the love bond. It is like an ovum that comes out of the ovary, as it travels through your system, it clicks a love favor in you and there’s one other person in the world who can respond to that love bond, when you see that person, everything within you clicks, that is your man/woman, if you miss him, you’ll never be happy until that love bond cycles past, for many years, so for you to be happy get that person at whatever cost, if it means getting him/her out of that marriage, get him/her that is your man/woman. It’s a mistake for him/her to be elsewhere. And if you go together for some time and find that love has died, don’t be held in bondage by the Christian values it will never come back, what you need is an easily arranged divorce and allow another love bond to come forth, just like an ovum comes up, and when it comes forth you’ll enjoy life again. On the contrary God’s word says in Malachi 2: 16; “For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce…”

          N.B. People enter into marriage having signed contracts of how they will share their things after divorce. People enter with one foot and another behind. In the past, divorce was unthinkable. It is one thing for a marriage to fail but it is another thing for people to enter marriage with an intention to enjoy as long as it was enjoyable and to walk out of it.

          6. MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE

          Alice Bailey preached (over 65 years ago) that sexual enjoyment is the highest pleasure in humanity, no one must be denied and no one must be restricted how to enjoy themselves. People should be allowed in whichever way they chose they want, whether it is homosexuality or in incest or bestiality, as long as the two agree.

          In the world today so many laws have been made that promote homosexuality and give so much freedom to gay rights, that a time will come when it is illegal for a preacher to mention homosexuality as an abomination in the eyes of God, or to read scriptures publicly that talk about homosexuality. At the International scene, Western nations now sanction African countries that have resisted homosexuality, with threats of withdrawing foreign aid and investments. Today many churches marry gays/lesbians and ordain gay priests.

          According to the Bible, this is an abomination before the eyes of God.

          “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22)

          “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

          7. DEBASE ART, MAKE IT RUN MAD

          How? Promote new forms of art which will corrupt and defile the imagination of people because art is the language of the spirit, that which is inside, you can bring out in painting, music, drama etc. Look at the quality of the music that is coming out, the films out of Hollywood.

          8. USE MEDIA TO PROMOTE AND CHANGE MINDSET

          The greatest channel you need to use to change human attitude is media. Use the press, the radio, T.V, cinema. You can tell today how successful they have been in implementing the plan over 65 years via media as well as advertising agencies, billboards, magazines. Who controls media? (New Age). So much money is pumped into media and advertising spreading of pornographic material and other sources. Sex outside of marriage is thrown on your face 80-90 times than sex in marriage. Promiscuity is being promoted as natural, you watch gay sex on T.V. in homes where children’s minds are being neutralized to sensitivity to these things. You wonder why newspapers, T.V, etc do not record anything about Christian activities.

          9. CREATE AN INTERFAITH MOVEMENT

          Promote other faiths to be at par with Christianity, and break this thing about Christianity as being the only way to heaven, by that Christianity will be pulled down and other faiths promoted. She said promote the importance of man in determining his own future and destiny – HUMANISM. She said tell man he has the right to choose what he wants to be and he can make it happen, he has the right to determine his cause – this takes God off His throne. Interfaith movements are rising everywhere in the world today.

          10. GET GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE ALL THESE LAW AND GET THE CHURCH TO ENDORSE THESE CHANGES.

          The church must change its doctrine and accommodate the people by accepting these things and put them into its structures and systems.

          Have they succeeded?

          Today you wonder why our governments are legislating laws contrary to the Bible and why the church is compromising the Word of God. It is a process of implementing The Plan – A 50 year strategy of the New Age Movement to fulfil its ultimate goal to establish a One World Government, a One World Economic system and a One World Religion. Today the strategy almost in its entirety has been adopted by the United Nations and today a lot of it is already law in many nations. This deception has crept up unobserved on so many people. It can best be demonstrated through the well-known analogy of the frog in the pot of water. If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it is smart enough to know that it is in terrible danger and will immediately jump out to safety. But if you turn up the heat very slowly, a little at a time, it doesn’t notice the changes that are taking place and will slowly cook to death. Many people today are slowly cooking to death and don’t seem to realize how far they have come from where they once were.

          Today the Western World is not struggling to resist these because the New Age Movement focused primarily on the West because that was the Christian world in the 19th century. The New Age Movement has a school called the Akanni School, which is the school of all the leaders of the Western world. They subscribe to it. It is recorded that they say they have succeeded the task in the West but suddenly they realize Christianity has migrated to the rest of the world, so they have now to use every resource in the West to deal with the rest of the world. In Africa, South Africa is the number one state, it is changing at such a rapid speed. They are saying give to African States a financial package with conditions to:

          Legalize abortion
          Take God and prayer out of school

          Governments are so attracted to this package, they can’t say no to it, they need the money, and they ask the church to find an answer. These are done secretly. Christianity is 5%, the rest is Hinduism, Buddhism, and Spiritism. New Age is being taught to teachers, they are being taught to teach this in schools.

          It is interesting to note that Blavatsky, Besant and Alice Bailey (1880 -1949) were well known Masonic leaders of the day. Albert Pike referred to Freemasonry as the ‘custodian’ or special guardian of these occult secrets and revealed the hidden agenda of his institution, the forming of a Luciferic One World Government.

          Watch and pray.

        • In this article :” “She said a good mother is one that do the best for the child. That’s just what she has done.” – we meet the fosterparent for a little girl they are related to. One of the considerations is age – this one was nearly fifhty – but they were related and since 2004 ( Bondevik 2) it has been a political goal that half of the children that are in a care situation comes to a family they are either related to or that are known from their own network. Today three out of ten obtain such a solution.

          “If the children can move to relatives and people in their own network it’s easier for them to retain the contact with their known local surroundings, their school and friends”, said Solveig Horne.

          This destination give the child less risk for further removal and better possibility to understand it’s history and therby a lower risk for psychic pain that may give illness.
          http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/–Hun-sa-at-en-god-mor-er-en-som-gjor-det-beste-for-barnet-sitt-Det-er-akkurat-det-hun-har-gjort-3534539.html

        • I agree, Pavla. An atheist should be after righteousness and truth. However, I believe mankind was designed to have fellowship with God. An atheist may not understand this concept but it is Biblical.

          Knut is a perfect example of someone claiming to be Christian who shows no fruit. Like a fruit tree, the Christian should yield the gifts of the Spirit which are love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control. My opinion is that the Holy Spirit cannot be in a person (thus, he/she is not Christian) and act as Knut has here.

        • Your opinion has little value and I don’t take your religious comments seriously, Chris, but my advise to you is to drop your cathegorization of the values and life of chistians you don’t know nothing about.

        • “Your opinion has little value and I don’t take your religious comments seriously, Chris, but my advise to you is to drop your cathegorization of the values and life of chistians you don’t know nothing about.”

          At this point, I would not take your advise on anything, Knut.

          You are putting words in my mouth once again.

          I have not categorized any Christian group.

          I have made a judgment about you based on your comments here. I do not, however, nor do I want to have the power to judge you eternally. That is what God will do.

          I would not expect you to take any of my comments seriously after your performance here.

        • Thank you for the article Knut. I find the number of children living with their relatives very low. 3 out of 10 foster children, are the children living in institutions also counted or is it an extra category? While in some cases it is not possible that parents raise their children as its harmful to the children, I am sure that in many families there is at least one person who is capable and willing to raise the children. Mind you, there are surely families, where it is not possible and then foster parents do a great job. My neighbors are foster parents and the child is doing very well. Two of my cousins have adopted babies from an institution that were abandoned. But I strongly believe that this must be the last solution. Now I also believe that only children that are at immediate harm or gross neglect should be taken from the families as anything else can be solved.

      • Hello Chris, So interesting that you mentioned VBS and that your daughter knows the teaching material. I’m a little off topic here. But I just wanted to mention that I am writing Christian songs in English and the Lord has been leading me in a wonderful way to make a CD of some of them which I am in the process of making now. The last 4 – 5 years I have been joining a club online called WriteChristianSongs where I have been learning, collaborating and writing Christian songs together with wonderful brothers and sisters from English speaking countries and mainly from the USA. One lovely songwriting friend mentioned VBS for me and told me that a couple of my songs would fit very well for kids and youth to use in their program and she suggested that I should ask them if they are interested. I am exited to see what the Lord wants me to do with the songs and just wanted to ask you if maybe she knows who I can contact for instance. The songwriting is a calling God has giving to me. It is a great joy for me and the Lord has been just amazing. Freely I’ve been given and freely Iwill serve. You can also contact me on email; doelitzsch@gmx.net if you would like to hear more or if you have some information that could help me. Blessings!

        • Hildi,

          I have copied your entire statement above and have emailed it to my daughter. Although she is an expert on the consumer side of things, (she has a shed filled with VBS and Sunday School and leadership materials and has directed VBS programs) she doesn’t have contacts within companies. She’s not sure that she can be of help to you. My daughter knows the VBS and Sunday School curriculums produced in America. She will pick and choose the best materials from those companies to direct a VBS. But you will have to do your own research on which company you would like to contribute to and how to approach them with your materials.
          My daughter wouldn’t know what you think is the best place for your music. However, if she thinks of any ideas for you, she has your email. Because of medical issues she is in a constant state of stress.
          You have a wonderful gift. God will find a way to use it for His glory. You may find that you are able to use your music at your own church. That would be a good place to start.

          God’s blessings…

        • Thank you so much Chris for your answer! Lots of greetings to your daughter from me! I am also teaching Sunday School:-) It was a clear calling from God, as well. I didn`t feel equipped for it because of the language , Swiss-German and because of health issues. But that only made me learn to depend on His strength and His wisdom! God has been so faithful and marvelous to me!:-)

          I am writing a blog about God`s faithfulness in my musical journey for anyone who would like to take a look:-)

          http://hildimusic.blogspot.ch/search/label/EN

          I will contact the VBS myself once my CD is done.

  14. Thank You Marianne. I just thought it has to be said. Since I have read comments like..Those godless people (referring to Barnevern)..and what can you expect from people who turn their life from God, I thought it is quite an unfair statement. While state ideology has a lot to do with it, there are many normal thinking atheists. I understand that many Christians for example have strong beliefs, what is good and wrong and unfortunately some of them have the need to force it on other people. I dont mind people being religious or not, its a personal freedom of everyone, but that it is. Its a personal matter, it should not be forced on others, not even as promoting more morality. I give you an example. The grandmother of my husband was a religious catholic (as many people in Holland were in that time). I would never think country as Holland was so conservative back then. Mind you, the priests here were busy visiting married women at home and talking them into having as many children as possible. Having 10 or 14 children was not something unusual, this had tragic consequence for the grandmother of my husband. She wanted to have 1 child and ended up having 14. She suffered from depression and the life was not so rosy for these children. Actually my grandfather has stopped being religious as soon as he could, because of his childhood.

  15. Marianne, your Indian friend is also right. It connects people of all different beliefs and political parties. There is also Mrs. Chalankova, who is helping Mrs. Michalakova. Mrs. Chalankova is from a conservative party.(another one than Petr Mach) I am sure these people have completely different view on many issues, but they are united in this one.

  16. Pingback: Keep Your Lights Shining in Norway | Light For Our Dark Times

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