This picture is not offensive. It is in fact beautiful because it shows a 22-week baby who went to heaven. It is the result of a saline abortion of a seemingly healthy baby. No syndromic features, no missing limbs, no evidence of defects. Just a couple more weeks in her mother’s womb and she would have been able to survive with NICU support.
But some social media moralists (oxymoronic phrase) are labeling such pictures offensive! People have had their Facebook account restricted or temporarily shut down for posting such pictures.
It is only offensive to pro-aborts who want to prevent this material from being published. They want to suppress this at all cost, knowing this is causing a unvaforable backlash in public opinion with respect to this heinous practice.
Pro Lifers, we are at an unprecedented point in this fight!
The Center for Medical Progress undercover investigation of Planned Parenthood has done more than just raise questions about the sale of baby organs. It has caused a large segment of the masses to realize the Holocaust of Abortion. That’s right, Holocaust. Ten times more severe than the Jewish Holocaust… 60 million vs 6 million, just to put it in perspective.
Legislation will be introduced to defund Planned Parenthood and restrict abortion. Will it pass and avoid a veto by the liberal White House? We do not know. What we know is that we are winning the fight in the public eye by exposing Planned Parenthood.
These babies do not have a voice. We must be their voice. Share and publish these pictures, and expose this modern Holocaust.
Take apostle Paul’s advice literally: “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Ephesians 5:11
Post, share, talk about it.
Expose them.
Click here: If you had an abortion…
Click here: My story when I was faced with the reality of abortion in medical school
photo: laborforlife.org
Delight in Truth 
AMEN, Brother! Why is it so unthinkable to display smaller-than-life, two-dimensional images of such atrocities, but it’s quite all right to commit the same atrocities, in four-dimensional reality, upon real, live human beings? Will we assist in the cover-up? If we do, aren’t we aiding and abetting these crimes, accessories after the fact?
“Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the descendants of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58: 1, NIV). Why are so many so timid? Are we not under marching orders to raise our voices in behalf of the voiceless and to defend the defenseless? Now that even the White House has begun to parrot the talking points Planned Parenthood has put forth in defense of the indefensible, we may have finally have reached, as you say, an unprecedented point, a real chance to wake up the conscience of our nation. Not that the mistreatment of these babies’ remains is worse than the crime that produced them, but people are being moved by these pictures, especially in juxtaposition with the casual callousness of all those abortuary workers.
Surely, we must: “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy” (Proverbs 31:8, 9; NIV).
Is there anyone on Earth who is more “destitute,” “poor,” or “needy” than children whose own mothers bring them into these abortion mills for quick and economical destruction?
Thank you for a visual that shows the truth about abortion. God bless this child and forgive the child’s mother and those who assisted in this child’s murder. Planned Parenthood and liberals can call it choice, but it is plainly murder. Jesus, open the eyes of the blind and give all Americans courage to stand up for life! Just as we look back and wonder how the holocaust could have happened, future generations will look back and wonder how we allowed the killing of our own children. What have we become?
Amen, I agree. This is heartbreaking and murder no matter what anyone thinks. This is a human being.
First off, saying this picture is not offensive is like saying a video if ISIS beheading Christians isn’t offensive. Secondly, there is no scripture that states babies go to heaven.
And I see this as a major problem in society today. We as a society are desensitized. This sort of picture would have never made it into the media 20 years ago. Now, we see so much murder and gore that a picture like this doesn’t faze us.
I agree that abortion is wrong and it is murder, but c’mon…let’s get our facts straight and be an example. We as human beings are born under the curse of sin. Right from conception the penalty of Adam’s sin is placed upon us. If a human being dies before they are saved, they go to hell. Period.
Just because a baby looks beautiful, and cozy and cuddly, doesn’t make the baby innocent. Take my four year old boy. If he had my strength, imagine the destruction he could cause? His three siblings would be dead right now.
Please put a stop to this offensive propaganda before society crosses the line of no return. Perhaps it has already happened.
AMEN, Delight in Truth! Why is it so unthinkable to display smaller-than-life, two-dimensional images of such atrocities, but it’s quite all right to commit the same atrocities, in four-dimensional reality, upon real, live human beings? Will we assist in the cover-up? If we do, aren’t we aiding and abetting these crimes, accessories after the fact?
“Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the descendants of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58: 1, NIV). Why are so many so timid? Are we not under marching orders to raise our voices in behalf of the voiceless and to defend the defenseless? Now that even the White House has begun to parrot the talking points Planned Parenthood has put forth in defense of the indefensible, we may have finally have reached, as you say, an unprecedented point, a real chance to wake up the conscience of our nation. Not that the mistreatment of these babies’ remains is worse than the crime that produced them, but people are being moved by these pictures, especially in juxtaposition with the casual callousness of all those abortuary workers.
Surely, we must: “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy” (Proverbs 31:8, 9; NIV).
Is there anyone on Earth who is more “destitute,” “poor,” or “needy” than children whose own mothers bring them into these abortion mills for quick and economical destruction?
G Nelson, very eloquently stated, thank you! I love those verses!
Will be interesting to see as more undercover videos come out, how long the WH will back PP. Their practice and now their exposure is indefensible.
Delight in Truth, Thank you very much for your kind comments!
Unfortunately, I managed to post my reply twice, and also found a typo in it. Is there any way for me to edit and/or delete my post? I would’ve contacted you directly, but I couldn’t figure out how to do that, either!
Feel free to delete either reply and then this message, too, after you answer.
No worries at all!
This baby is innocent. She has yet to commit sin. She died before being born. She has yet to know wrong vs right.
Where did David’s child go when he died as an infant as a direct result of David’s sin?
I’m surprised to see you on the side of the proAborts who try to suppress these images.
Taking it to its logical end, such position will eventually oppose ultrasounds before abortion because it will paint abortion as the horrific practice that it is
Original sin.
In my humble opinion, you couldn’t be much more mistaken, Revival & Reformation.
As far as the photo being offensive, as Benjamin Franklin said, “[I]f all Printers were determin’d not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed.” Jay Sekulow of the ACLJ has often pointed out: “There is no right not to be offended. Part of the price of your freedom of speech is that I may sometimes be offended by what you say.”
Perhaps what Delight in Truth is saying is that we SHOULDN’T be offended by such pictures. That is, instead of getting our feathers ruffled at seeing something unpleasant, maybe the proper response is to shout, raise our voices, speak up, etc. (Isa. 58:1; Prov. 31:8, 9).
After our victory in Europe, German locals, neighbors of the concentration camps, were forced to see what had been done by the Nazis in their name. They seemed truly shocked, horrified, amazed, and, of course, ashamed. Today, some still deny the Holocaust ever took place. What if we’d been too nasty-nice to make, publish, and preserve these films and photographs?
We’re commanded to: “Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, ‘But we knew nothing about this,’ does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?” (Prov. 24:11, 12; NIV).
Evil thrives in darkness, feeds on deception, and flourishes in silence (John 3:19–21). When we assist in the concealment of sin, we become a party to it. “The world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it,” opined Albert Einstein.
Regarding the destiny of preborns, do you really believe these innocents go to Hell? When we die, “the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Eccl. 12:7). While it’s difficult enough for me to believe your four-year-old is “in danger of the judgment,” how could a preborn ever wind up anywhere but Paradise, when they haven’t drawn a single breath?! “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25b, NIV). “It is not good to be partial to the wicked and so deprive the innocent of justice” (Prov. 18:5, NIV), yet God IS good.
I know some still teach this error, but the man-made doctrine of Original Sin is incompatible with Holy Writ, since: “The one who sins is the one who shall die” (Ezek. 18:4, NIV). To be saved, one must hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel, repent of his sins, confess his sins, be baptized, and remain faithful. So, how could a preborn ever comply with ANY of these commands? It’s physically impossible for him to hear or believe the Gospel, he cannot sin, so he has no sins to repent of or confess, and he cannot be baptized. He cannot commit one voluntary act.
No, preborns are neither lost nor saved. They’re SAFE. We are condemned as sinners, not because we’re biologically related to Adam. We’re sinners, condemned because—and if and when—we sin.
Desensitized we may be, but it’s good that many are finally being outraged. Do you think we’ll become more sensitive and caring by keeping these atrocities under wraps? Their perpetrators would be happy with that: keep quiet, preach only in churches, keep our religion to ourselves and never be salt or light! Oh, the barbarians LOVE that kind of religion!
“Propaganda”? It’s hard to see what’s propagandistic about unaltered photographs and videos with accurate descriptions of the circumstances under which they were made. Sounds more like old-fashioned, hard-hitting journalism to me. And I say we need more of it, not less.
I posted this on my blog today in response to Delight In Truth. Scripture, G. Nelson Leerskov…Scripture…please.
Psalm 51.5
“Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”
Have you heard of imputed sin? Have you heard of the curse of Adam? Have you ever heard of Jesus taking away the sin of the world? You gave one scriptural inference, so did I.
Do you realize that David was making a statement? He was heartbroken and was devastated over the loss of his son. Just because he made a statement, doesn’t mean the statement is true. There’s lots of statements in the Bible, but just because they are in the Bible doesn’t make them true.
Do you have children? I have four. I have watched their tempers, their propensity to lie and deceive. I have watched their selfishness.
No one taught them. No one instructed them in the ways of sin. It’s their nature.
Job 14.1: “Man who is born of woman Is of few days and full of trouble.
Job 15. 14: “What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?
Job 25.4: How then can man be righteous before God? Or how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
There’s three more verses that point to the wickedness of man, even at birth. There’s is nothing in scripture that points to the purity of man. If there is, please show me MINUS THE VERSES ABOUT DAVID AND HIS SON, please…
When Adam sinned, the world was plunged into sin. Every person conceived is placed under the curse of that sin. This is precisely why Jesus had to die for the sins of the world. His death was required to remove that curse. BUT, it’s only those who are saved, who have that curse removed. All others, babies included are condemned already.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
You see, it’s not some sort of perceived cuteness or innocence that saves someone. It’s the confession of faith in Christ Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is the ONLY way man or child can be saved.
No, all of mankind is cursed. Babies and old atheistic rebels included.
Please stay with scripture. The world is watching and they shouldn’t be seeing two believers argue like this.
paulandzabethbayne, please don’t challenge the authority of Scripture.
2 Sam 12:23 is just as truthful as Ps 51.5
I am challenging scripture by quoting scripture? Hmm…can you PLEASE use another scripture to fuel argument? I mean, c’mon, this is pathetic to be honest. You want to believe something sooooo bad, that you refuse to accept the fact that you are WRONG!
I find this very disturbing. I have given many scriptural references indicating my point, and you have given the same one over and over and taken it out of context.
I will say it again. David was a mere mortal. Yes, he is “King David”, but he was still a human and he sinned terribly. When God punished him by taking away his child, David was speaking out of heartache and despair. And yes, there are many things said in scripture that are wrong. The Scriptures themselves are perfect, but hey, did the disciples of Christ steal His body away in the night while the leaders slept? Or was that a false statement? You see…?
I have a challenge for you. Put away your books and such and use the Bible. Show me where a baby is born perfect and sinless and I will admit my error. Otherwise, my Scriptural evidence must stand as the truth. We are cursed with imputed sin. We are under the curse of Adam. This means we do not have to sin, but are declared guilty by God for Adam’s sin.
Why can’t you understand this?
This is beyond disagreement on an unclear subject. You have now moved into the territory of saying that Scripture is untrue. The statment about Christ’s body being stolen is presented as a LIE by unbelievers (!) in Scripture (therefore you should not use it to demonstrate that Scripture contains UNTRUTH). David’s statement is under the inspiration of the Spirit in that 2 Sam 12 passage, just like psalm 51.
Anyways, agree to disagree and move on.
PaulandZabeth, you repeatedly exhort others to “stay with Scripture.” That’s odd, since in my reply to Revival & Reformation, I cited eight relevant passages, whereas you mention a total of only four, three of which are quite irrelevant to this discussion.
Have ye not read Ecclesiastes 7:29? “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices” (NASB).
Though I’m not the one who brought up David and the loss of his child, that was Delight in Truth, I do agree with his excellent argument, since, as you seem to have forgotten, David was a man after God’s own heart (1 Sam. 13:14). This is echoed in the NT: “God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.” (Acts 13:22b, NIV). Is it wise to dismiss the statements of such a man so blithely?
All three of the verses from Job are irrelevant.
While I would NEVER agree that “There’s lots of statements in the Bible, but just because they are in the Bible doesn’t make them true,” the three verses from Job you cite are good examples of how “a text taken out of context can become a pretext.” Using your exegesis, it would make sense to declare, “There is no God,” since stripped of the contexts, the Bible says so about 15 times. It makes all the difference in the world that “the fool” said this, and that elsewhere the COMPLETE statement is, “There is no God BESIDE YOU,” etc.
You’ve wrested the verses in Job from their contexts.
The “trouble” mentioned in the first one (14:1) isn’t talking about the trouble, evil, or sin men get into, cause, or create. That’s clear from the verses which follow. Man IS troubled. He HAS troubles. “Trouble” as in tribulation, vexations, and “The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks / That flesh is heir to . . .” (Shakespeare). It’s what Christ himself PROMISED we’d have: “In this world you will have trouble” (John 16:33b, NIV). Job 14:1 says nothing about all men being cursed for all time by being physically related to Adam.
The other two verses you refer to were spoken by two of Job’s accusatory “friends,” Eliphaz the Temanite (15:14) and Bildad the Shuite (25:4). Though they set out together to “sympathize with him and comfort him,” (2:11), they seem to have done anything but! For nearly three dozen chapters, they are truly the Devil’s advocates, reminding Job that no one is perfect, though 1:1 declares he was “blameless and upright.” They contend that if Job thinks he’s “blameless,” he’s surely overlooked or forgotten some sin; innocent people simply don’t have to suffer as Job is suffering (e.g., 4:7; 8:5 fl.)!
Job effectively silences his accusers. Eventually, God steps in, rebuking and nullifying even Job’s defenses (chapter 38 fl.). At the same time, God doesn’t even dignify the accusers’ fawning “praise” of Him with a response. In fact, God doesn’t answer even JOB’s questions directly, but instead challenges his right to say anything. By 42:6, Job is saying, “I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.” Now, I ask you, where does that leave Job’s foolish accusers and their pontifications? We never hear of them again.
In short, one must use great care in quoting anything Job’s accusers or Job himself said if attempting to build doctrines on it! Job is an ancient, grand poem which attempts to explain INNOCENT suffering. Job was “BLAMELESS.”
You’re simply mistaken when you say everyone is placed “under the curse” of Adam’s sin. Scripture does NOT say that! It doesn’t say ADAM was cursed! The GROUND was cursed because of his sin (Gen. 3:17b). Not the same thing! Adam and his descendents have had to work for a living and he lost his happy, carefree life upon being cast out of the Garden of Eden. But the curse was on the GROUND, not Adam, himself.
Yes, the GROUND is still cursed, just as the daughters of Eve still have pain in childbirth (3:16). And the SERPENT was cursed (3:14, 15) and CAIN, the first murderer was cursed for his sin (4:11), but ADAM himself wasn’t cursed and neither was Eve. These are crucial distinctions.
Though Adam probably felt he, himself, was cursed—and we might sometimes feel the same way—the distinction is important! If he’s going to be passing it down to all future generations, he would have to be carrying the curse himself. But the curse was NOT upon Adam! The ground is, was, and will be cursed. So was the serpent. So was Cain. But Adam and Eve were given specific, limited penalties, neither of which were levied against their persons.
By the time we get to Noah, God says, “ ‘. . . every inclination of the human heart is evil FROM CHILDHOOD . . .’ ” (8:21, my emphasis). The various translations are largely split on the rendering of that last word: about half say “from childhood” and about half say “from his youth.” None say “from conception.”
So, which is it: conception, birth, childhood or youth?
If Eccl. 27:9 and Gen. 8:21 and Job 1:1 are all literally true and accurate, how can Ps. 51:5 also be LITERALLY true?
Does God make men “upright” (Eccl. 27:9)? Was he mistaken in declaring, in his infinite wisdom, that all he’d made was “very good” (Gen. 1:31)? (Yes, this was before the Fall, but before or after, it doesn’t contradict Eccl. 27:9). Is it untrue that “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3, NIV)? “Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar” (Rom. 3:4a, NIV).
If all these passages are LITERALLY true, Scripture contradicts itself. Taken literally, Ps. 51:5 contradicts itself! Are we full of sin from birth, or from conception? Some might say both could be true. But taken literally, what sense does it make, how helpful is it, to say we’re all full of sin “from birth,” if by that time we’ve already been saturated with sin for 40 weeks? I’m sure it makes a huge difference to preborns who dies before birth!
Since Holy Writ cannot contradict itself, there must be some other explanation. In my opinion, you’re taking Ps. 51:5 too literally. You seem to be conflating the hyperbolic, poetic utterances of a man who’s been crushed by grief, regret, guilt. and is having a true change of heart, with official pronouncements of universal theological principles. N.B.: He’s not talking about all men everywhere and or all time. He’s not making profound dicta about the state of humankind. He’s talking about HIMSELF.
How many times in those 19 verses does he say “I,” “me,” or “my”? According to my own quick, rough count is 35 times.
The Psalms are poems or song-poems. The Hebrew language is itself a poetic language, in which almost every word has several different levels of meaning, even in Hebrew prose. For example, when they say “Shalom!” they’re not just offering the idiomatic “Hello” or “Goodbye,” they’re also saying, at the same time, “Peace!” and “Harmony!” and even, I understand, “Next year in Jerusalem!” etc. Almost every word is rich with layers of meaning and often cannot be rendered by a single, strict, literal equivalent in into less poetic languages.
Try reading the rest of the Psalm, including the note preceding it. Though not as authoritative as the texts themselves, these notes and titles “are undoubtedly very ancient; for they existed when the Septuagint version was made, about 280 B.C.”
Yes, I helped raise a son and now have two grown step-children, too, but my experience raising my son was about the opposite of yours. Of course, none of us who cooperated in raising him thought he was destined for Hell from conception, either.
Maybe one of the most appalling aspects of your theory is that it would make many of the lies of atheists and pro-aborts true. They seem to delight in claiming that God is “the worst abortionist of all time,” due to the large number of preborns that don’t even make it to nidation, much less to birth. And they sometimes say pro-lifers are no better than abortionists, since some life advocates engage in or condone murdering abortionists. If all preborns, babies, infants, toddlers, preschoolers, autistic and other mentally challenged young people are all children of Hell before they take their first breath, this caricature of a cruel, merciless, unreasonable God would make sense, as would the practice of murdering abortionists, the universal sterilization of mankind, and the a complete revocation of God’s command: “ ‘Be fruitful and increase in number’ ” (Gen. 1:28).
“The one who sins is the one who shall die” (Ezek. 18:4, NIV). “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 6:23, NIV).
—30—
Cowards like u who refuse to face the ugly truth, throw in a little scripture, oh I’m just like you, I agree with you, ….But are one of the reason this occurs. Come on, join up, quit being so faux intellectual and stand up for whats rite, boldy!
I don’t know what bible your reading? Mine states that babies go to heaven. May want to re read your bible. People need to see this because it’s a life that’s taken. It’s sick to do this and selfish!!!
Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Read it Matthew:19-13-14
Any child or baby does go to heaven and it is in the bible it says that they all will until they reach the age of accountability then they are old enough to know right from wrong and will begin to answer for there sins and no there is no age limit for that bc everyone is different and learns that at different ages
Yes all innocent children will go to heaven. For the kingdom belongs to them. Read your bible, it states on several books how we are supposed to be like children in order to go to heaven. Matthew 18:3 and 19:14 Mark 10: 14-15, Luke 18:16-17. Also you stating that about your 4 year old child says that you are at fault. The bible states that you need to guide your child in a young age and he will never apart himself from the Lord. This picture is not offensive as it shows a life terminated without reason. So I pray God opens your mind and heart and be more humble and caring to things like this. God bless you.
im not sure what bible your reading but it speciacally says unborn babies who are born dead go to Heaven! they are to young to even learn the right way so yes they are considered innocent.
Okay…scripture please?
• Ecclesiastes 7:29.
http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/7-29.htm
You are trying to believe something so hard that you will stoop to make the Bible say what you want it to.
This verse is saying that God made man (Adam and Eve) upright. But the wickedness in man’s heart has compelled/forced/made man to invent many schemes/intents/inventions that are evil. This is where works-based salvation originated from. It stems from an evil heart of self-reliance and an attitude that I can do better than God. This is what all of you commenters are doing.
You believe something, and you strain the Bible through your filter in order to justify yourselves. Instead, you should be straining your ideas and beliefs through the Bible, and if it doesn’t fit, then toss it out.
Isn’t this evident to you?
Let’s look at the context, and I pray that God opens your eyes to the truth…
27 “Here is what I have found,” says the Preacher, “Adding one thing to the other to find out the reason,
28 Which my soul still seeks but I cannot find: One man among a thousand I have found, But a woman among all these I have not found.
29 Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.”
An empirical acquisition of knowledge, that is man seeking righteousness through his many schemes, fails miserably. Only God can save and make man righteous.
Solomon was seeking knowledge, we all know that. Man from day one has done his level best to build himself a tower of Babel in order to prove to God that he doesn’t need Him.
PLEASE…I beg you all in Christ’s name, to come about and change your minds.
Your attempts to rewrite scripture is scary, sad and demonstrates a bigger problem. Rebellion. I say this out of love only…so please don’t get offended.
There’s also no scripture that says babies go to hell. Although we are born into sin, how can someone be condemned to hell when they didn’t even have the chance to live! We don’t know what happens. A side note: we can’t remember anything from when we were babies, but I highly doubt we were capable of sinning since we had no knowledge of what sin even is.
The Bible clearly tells us in many places (Romans being the foremost), that we are born into sin.
The theological reality of Total Depravity and Imputed Sin condemns even the unborn to hell. Regardless of where that child is when he dies, makes no difference to a holy God.
This logic is similar to the pro-choice side. They think because the child is still in the womb, it doesn’t deserve to be called person, so they label him a fetus. For some reason, people seem to think that the womb is some special place like never-never land. It makes no sense.
When do you think conception takes place? After birth? Or in the womb? God said of Jeremiah, that He knew him in his mother’s womb. Just because a baby is in the womb, doesn’t mean he is off limits.
The Bible clearly states that we are alive in the womb, and God is responsible for knitting us together. Look at John the Baptist. He leapt for joy when Mary, pregnant with Jesus approached. Was he conscience of what was happening? Sounds like he was.
Just because we can’t remember what it was like in the womb, doesn’t give us an excuse. No man (unborn children included) is without excuse (Romans 1).
Let’s say a man lives in a cave, and he’s been there all his life. He’s never seen another person, newspaper, internet, or what-have-you…
He has never heard of Jesus. He has never seen a Bible. He has no clue about anything except his little slice of reality in that cave.
Will he still be condemned to hell if he dies?
The Bible says he will, unless God in His mercy saves him before death.
The problem with mankind is this: Adam’s sin and curse. It reaches into the hearts of every person, from the smallest to the oldest. When the spark of life enters into that little life in mommy’s tummy, the curse of Adam enters as well.
BTW…I have four children. One of them was born at 25 weeks and spent 3 months in the NICU. He fought tooth and nail to live when he should have died many times.
I wish more than anything that little babies would go to heaven, but it just isn’t scriptural.
What would have happened to your 25 weeker had he died? Go to hell?
No way.
Even Satan who was predestined to fall, was not tossed out of heaven UNTIL he sinned. His nature was like that from the beginning says the bible. But he was punished only AFTER he sinned.
The basis of the belief that little ones will be in heaven is when King Davis lost his son in 2 Samuel 12:23 he said can I bring him back again ? I will go to him but he will not return to me.
Oops King David. Sorry 🙂
I have a child that died in utero and I know that child is with the Lord and I look forward to seeing him one day. The God I worship is full of mercy and love. And he made it clear how much he loves children. He would not shut them out of heaven. Luke 10:16 and John 12:48, 1 Thess 4:8, speak about our salvation being rooted in the acceptance of our need of salvation and that hell is for those who reject God’s provision. A child cannot reject what they do not know. And Rom. 1:18-20 speaks to the knowledge or light that a person receives and the decision they make according to that knowledge – what can an unborn child or a child in this world know that would tell them the truth and they would choose.
God loves the little children.
What a sad, sad life you must lead! Thinking that this innocent little child went to hell is sinful in and of itself! What kind of god must you follow who would send any innocent, be it an adult with mental retardation or a little child or a native in the darkest jungle who knows no law, to hell? Disgusting and hateful.
Simple question…by definition, what does ‘Imputed Righteousness’ mean?
There is scripture which states that all children who die before the age of accountability are redeemed through the atonement of Christ. This truth is clarified in the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. I believe in a God both merciful and just. This and many other truths are also clarified through the Book of Mormon and modern revelation through his prophets.
Jordan, the only truth is in the Bible, the inspired, unchanging, infallible, innerrant word of God.
I did ask a question and it seems no one wants to answer. What, by definition is imputed righteousness?
On a side note DiT, do you see? You even have Mormons and their lies agreeing with you. The Bible does not in any way say anything about the innocence of babies. Quite to the contrary, actually, but alas, you do not want to hear the truth again. I’m not being nasty, so don’t take it that way. I am being honest and I care about you and those here commenting (including Mr. Mormon) who believe lies in order to justify their beliefs.
Revival and Reformation, I fully understand imputed righteousness. Christ’s righteousness is ours by faith.
I also understand imputed sin. But it gets more complicated than you make it out to be. Because the issue is not 100% clear in the scriptures with respect to the unborn and infants, I choose to align myself with great men of God like Spurgeon when I say that the unborn and infants go to heaven.
G. Nelson provided a plethora of Scripture to infer this.
(It is not nice and Christ like to call the commentator Mr Mormon just like it would not be nice to call you or me Mr Reformed. He needs the truth given with kindness)
Btw… You never really addressed a point I brought up, I believe on your blog. How do you get citizens of heaven from every tongue and tribe and nation since WE KNOW for a fact that many tribes have gone extinct before they received a missionary to bring them the gospel?
Well, around the block we go again eh?
You know the answer to your question DiT. Romans 1 spells it out very clear. Every human being has the testimony of God written upon their hearts. No man (human being) has an excuse. Whether that be an unborn child or a pygmy in the darkest recesses of Australia. Whether you are blind, deaf and mute or you live in a cave upon the highest mountain. You are guilty of imputed sin. You say you know what imputed righteousness is: we take on Christ’s righteousness. Right?
Why do we have to take on Christ’s righteousness? Aren’t we good enough? Isn’t the African witch doctor safe in his ignorance? Why bother evangelizing then? We are doing all of these pagans a disservice when we open their eyes to the Gospel. Leave them alone in their bliss and they will happily go to heaven.
See…?
We take on Christ’s imputed righteousness because we are sinful and unable to have any sort of relationship with God unless that sin is covered over and forgiven. Am I right? Imputed righteousness takes the imputed sin and removes it.
This is why Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Why do we persuade men? Because all mankind is in trouble with an ever-increasing angry God. Man’s sin (beginning at conception) start piling up. It’s not that an unborn baby is plotting evil within the womb, but it’s because Adam’s sin taints every human being. We are born with the genetic code of Adam, as it were, to sin. His curse follows every person from conception to the grave.
When a human being becomes a Christian, he becomes a new creature…right?
If he becomes a new creature after salvation, then he is an old creature before.
The Bible says nothing of when this happens. If you are saying it happens sometime after the child is born, then when? Do you suggest that a three year old child is still innocent? How many three year old children have you ever met that were innocent and pure?
Could it be when the child gets up to ten years old? A teenager? When? I have had this very discussion with pro-choicers over when the baby becomes a human. They say sometime after the child is born and IF the mom wants the child. It seems to me that there is a mentality permeating throughout society today that makes the womb some sort of never-never land. Where babies are not humans, and are outside of God’s sovereign justice.
I don’t understand your your tenacious desire to be wrong. Of course, you don’t think you’re wrong, but unfortunately, you are. And being wrong, you are leading many down the path of error. You are undermining the theology of imputed sin, total depravity and God’s sovereignty.
I would be afraid, if I were you…
You have got to tone down your arrogance and threats. Start removing Spurgeon and other reformed preachers and theologians from your blogs, because they hold the same position as me.
You still have not addressed the issue I bring up about EVERY tribe found in heaven. I am now asking a third time! HOW DO TRIBES WHO NEVER HEAR THE GOSPEL FIND THEIR WAY INTO HEAVEN if not by infant redemption?
“You know the answer to your question DiT. Romans 1 spells it out very clear. Every human being has the testimony of God written upon their hearts. No man (human being) has an excuse. Whether that be an unborn child or a pygmy in the darkest recesses of Australia. Whether you are blind, deaf and mute or you live in a cave upon the highest mountain. You are guilty of imputed sin. You say you know what imputed righteousness is: we take on Christ’s righteousness. Right?
“Why do we have to take on Christ’s righteousness? Aren’t we good enough? Isn’t the African witch doctor safe in his ignorance? Why bother evangelizing then? We are doing all of these pagans a disservice when we open their eyes to the Gospel. Leave them alone in their bliss and they will happily go to heaven.”
Seeing as you have a terrible case of willful blindness, I will spell it out to you:
Because God has placed His inward witness within ever human being’s heart, there is no one on earth who can claim ignorance to the Gospel. Every single person ever born from Adam to the last person on earth is tainted with Adam’s original sin and thus tainted with Adam’s imputed sin. Even the little, wee child who scrounges around in dumpsters over in Nigeria will face the justice of God and be FOUND GUILTY!
This is getting old…real fast. I won’t be commenting any longer as it seems I am casting pearls before swine.
BTW…these are not threats or insults…just the truth…it depends on how you take it, Oh Christian!
All of you people need to stop arguing about theology. God is merciful and judges us through his mercy. Use your energy to pray and to go do something besides talk to help these poor innocents!
I do not understand how you could think a human being is born under the curse of sin, wow….that is shocking. No child shall be punished for their parents transgressions. All babies are born pure and innocent, they have not had a chance to sin.
He is saying that all babies have imputed sin, BEFORE they commit the sin. That is where we disagree. While babies have a sinful nature just like all of us, they cannot be held accountable for their sin UNTIL they commit it
They would also have to know right from wrong there fore they are not sinners till they do know right from wrong . To be forgiven they would have to confess they have sinned new born babies can not talk.
You are SO wrong. Little children are saved in Christ. There most certainly is modern scripture the clarifies the teachings in the bible. Check out Moroni in the Book of Mormon. Little children are innocent through the blood of Christ and that is an eternal truth.
Kristy, as a separate issue from the topic, the Book of Mormon is not inspired Scripture and cannot be used to clarify teaching in the Bible. In fact it contradicts the Bible.
What part of the scripture she cited, have you read? Claiming that it contradicts the Bible (which we also believe in) requires citations. Look up Moroni 8:6-16, and tell me what you glean from it. While you’re at it, read 1 Peter 3:19-20. If all who did not know of Christ go to Hell, why would he have preached to them? 1 Corinthians 15:29 has another point to consider. Keep your mind and heart open to the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, who testifies of all truth.
“the Bible which we also believe in”
Christians only believe in the Bible, no other scripture.
Mormons accept the writings of Joseph Smith at the same level, maybe higher, than the Bible.
This falls under the category referred by apostle Paul as a different gospel in Galatians 1
” But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”
With respect to the Peter passage you are in grave error. Jesus proclaimed victory to the souls in hell, certainly not repentance. There is no possibility of repentance after death. Here is what the Bible says in Hebrews 9:27
“people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,”
Death is final. Baptism for the dead is not useful. The reference in 1 Cor 15 in no way validates baptism for the dead. The bible does not command it anywhere.
“We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and NOT for Adam’s transgression. Babies have no sin. ”
Article of Faith #2
Rose, I cannot have promotion of Mormon theology here… sorry. I edited your comment expanding of your article of faith
To everyone on this particular part of the discussion:
My heart aches for these innocent children whose lives were taken. I do find some comfort knowing that they went straight to heaven to a loving Heavenly Father and the Savior, Jesus Christ who, through His Atonement and sacrifice gave these sweet babies life, not hell and damnation.
Jennifer, this is a Christian blog, I will not allow LDS Scripture and theology- that is why I edited the comment
How can anyone say a baby will go to hell because they are not saved? Being saved requires a chance to learn about God and Jesus’ gospel and since a baby has not yet had the chance to make that decision themselves, how could a just God sentence them to go to hell? All of us, as you say, are born with the penalty of Adam’s sin to have to die. But because of God’s mercy and wanting us to have the choice to choose him or not choose him, he sent Jesus to show us the way to live right and Jesus died to take the penalty of the sin we do. And it includes all people, including babies who live only briefly or God would not be a just God. This means all people have a chance to learn and be taught so they can make the choice. This is a just God. I believe that these people (babies) who die before they get a chance to make this decision are taught in heaven and get to make this choice. But that’s a different subject.
The photo is offensive in that the act that caused the baby’s death is offensive. But without photos like these as evidence of the atrocities going on in this world at the hand of people who are saying they are doing something good for women, people would not be aware of what is happening. Sometimes people have to see with their eyes before they really understand and see the importance of what is happening.
Revival & Reformation,
I may be wrong, but you sound reformed to me. Subscribing to the theological system of Calvinism. If so, your statement that when infants die they go to hell is in direct contradiction to perhaps the most well known Calvinist this side of John Calvin, Charles Spurgeon when he said;
“I rejoice to know that the souls of all infants, as soon as they die, speed their way to Paradise. Think what a multitude there is of them! Then there are already in Heaven unnumbered myriads of the spirits of just men made perfect—the redeemed of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues up till now; and there are better times coming, when the religion of Christ shall be universal.”
I know the verses to which you are referring very well as I am reformed myself. But there needs to be room left for ultimate Devine sovereignty, and admitting we do not have the slightest idea of the full capability of God’s plan or abilities.
Weclome to Delight in Truth, paultanca! I’ll be checking your site for more posts!
So if my next door neighbor spouts off about babies going to heaven, then he must be right? So what if Spurgeon said something. He’s not perfect and he only spoke his opinion. But yet again, there’s no proper scriptural evidence proving your viewpoint.
This precisely why we have so much division in the church today. Too much hearsay and not enough Scripture. OR…we grab onto one scripture here and one there and make it say what we want.
Don’t you think I would love to have all babies go to heaven? But I have to stick with what I believe in Scripture. May every man be a liar in the face of God’s truth.
And in regards to Total Depravity…you cannot believe both. You either believe in the total depravity of man, or you believe man is innocent until he consciously commits sin. It’s one or the other.
And yes…I do fall under Reformed as it is biblical.
I’ve been reading your posts. Well, trying to anyway. You’re perpetual blabbering made it tough to want to keep reading.
You’re an angry little Calvinist arentcha? So die hard in your philosophy that you lose track of the gospel. Sure, you’re good at spouting off verses and thinking you’ve won some argument. But allow me to remind you of another quote from one of the greats of the past since you are so quick to nonchalantly dismiss the works of godly men far greater than you, “do not speak where the bible is silent, lest you silence the bible where it speaks.”
But of course you would have no way of knowing that phrase since you read nothing but the bible (and clearly understand very little of it). That same bible you are using to bash everybody else on this thread over thread with, seeing as how they have such a limited understanding of the bible compared to you.
Here’s a piece I just posted that I think you all may enjoy (hint, hint . . . it’s not what you may think):
http://pattisonblog.com/2015/08/01/10-reasons-why-ive-decided-to-become-pro-choice/
Very creative, thank you!
While I agree that we must be a voice for the unborn children who are being slaughtered I disagree that the picture is not offensive. Abortionists want to suppress these as well as ultrasound pictures however this child was the victim of murder. Murder in any form is not beautiful. It resounds of images of ISIS killing Christians and posting the pictures. Post the beauty of the miracle of life growing in the womb. Be a voice for those who the unborn who are unable to speak for themselves. But don’t equate the murder of this child to something of beauty.
As for whether or not babies go to Heaven when they die. Rely on Scripture taken in context. Even the “great” preachers are still men and as men we are fallible. Only the Word of God stands as truth in all things. Too many people twist Scripture into what they “want” it to say/mean depending on the circumstances / situation. This will cause one to fall into error.
Thank you for the non-confrontational tone. I agree that the act of murder is the opposite of beautiful. My position was that the subject of that murder, the 22 weeker is beautiful.
The truth is this: This picture is terribly offensive to Almighty God, who was in the process of knitting this child together in his/her mother’s womb. The shedding of innocent blood is perhaps the greatest abomination of all. Believers should be cut to the core that a society deemed the most civilized in the history of humanity has sunk to such a depth of barbarism. As for the destination of this child’s soul, Jesus Christ died to pay for the sins of us all. He particularly cherishes the purity and simple faith of the young – comparing them to those in His Kingdom. Yes, we are all born with the potential to sin, yet this infant had no awareness of such things. Our LORD, in His ultimate justice would not condemn such a soul to hell – since the Bible clearly teaches that we send ourselves there when we reject His plan for salvation. Only those who have lived on earth and had opportunity to seek God could be held accountable for their life choices. Scripture references include: 2 Samuel 12:23 (David would see his son again – because he trusted God); Psalm 86:15 (God’s great compassion); Matthew 18&19 (Christ’s exalts children); John 12:48 (Those who reject Christ); Romans 1:18-20 (His wrath on the unrighteous)
Thanks for commenting and welcome here. While the picture is graphic, the baby is God’s image and I would classify as beautiful.
Thanks for the Scripture verses.
Other than the horrific saline burns of course!
Reblogged this on Snyder's Soapbox.
Welcome here, Bob!
I am a NICU nurse and we have actually sent home a baby girl at 22 weeks gestation she fought and beat all the odds against her because she had her church and many nurses including myself praying for her daily. In my eyes and Gods eyes 22 weeks is viable for life, even though the journey in the NICU can be long and difficult, nothing is too hard for my God He can make a way out of no way because He is faithful. Proverbs 3:5 we need to trust Him with all our hearts & lean not to our own understanding.” Life is in His hands.
That is amazing to hear, Dawn. I am an anesthesiologist, and I took care of premees in the past, but I do not remember a 22 weeker beating the odds! Great testimony!
Revival & Reformation:
All I did was refer to a Bible verse, viz.: “Ecclesiastes 7:29.”
You reply by accusing me of “trying to believe” things not taught in Scripture, of stooping to twist the Bible to my own liking, of being rebellious, of believing in a “works-based salvation,” and even of trying to “rewrite” Holy Writ!
Huh?
You may not know that the NKJV, the version you quote, isn’t a translation. It’s only a revision of the King James Version. Without consulting any ancient texts at all, the NKJV revisers just tried to patch up some of the KJV’s more obvious problems.
Now, in order for your interpretation to succeed, words must be added to and altered from all translations. As I’ve mentioned, the NASB has been called “the most strictly literal translation.” Here it reads:
“Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Where your revision reads “man,” the NASB and other reliable versions say “men” or “mankind” or “humankind” or “human beings.” A few suggest “people.” Where is the version that says “a man” or “the first man” or “the man Adam and Eve,” etc.?
No version actually says what you insist the verse must mean. So, it must be manipulated as follows. (Your revisions are in brackets.)
“Behold, I have found only this, that God made [Adam or Adam and Eve or a man or one man] upright, but [he has] sought out many devices.”
My question to you is: If this is what the Holy Spirit had wanted to convey, why does this verse read so differently? While you accuse others of filtering, mishandling, rewriting, and otherwise abusing texts, you’re ignoring stern scriptural warnings against adding to and taking from what we’re given. (Please see Deut. 4:2, 12:32; and Rev. 22:18, 19.)
But whether the first phrase in brackets, the toughest obstacle to your view may be finding a way to make “they” (Hebrew: “hêmmâh,” MASCULINE PLURAL) mean a single man or a man and a woman. Again, “Adam and Eve,” your interpolation, hardly qualify as “masculine plural.”
In other words, how does it make any sense to say “a man . . . these men” or “the man . . . these men” or “Adam and Eve . . . these men.” So, who are “they”? Who are the other man or men besides Adam?
You have another problem: If “man” or “men” in Eccl. 7:29 somehow really means “Adam and Eve,” as you insist it must, where are their “many” schemes? As recorded in the first few verses of Genesis 3, our First Parents believed the serpent’s lie, they ate the forbidden fruit, but isn’t that about it? How do TWO sins qualify as “MANY schemes”?
Your private interpretation requires a great deal more linguistic and logical gymnastics than ours. Why not just take the clear, simple words of Scripture and their clear, simple meaning at face value?
Consider Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
“For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die. . . . The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them” (NIV).
Your theory directly contradicts these verses, too, since you claim not only Adam’s and Eve’s children but ALL their descendants, as well, will share his guilt! What a merciless monster your god is! Have ye not read that “His mercy endureth for ever”? That “God is love”? That “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”? That “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us”?
You may have derived your beliefs from some manmade creed or catechism, but they don’t have much to do with the “whole counsel of God” or “rightly dividing the word of truth.”
You will be wise to save your prayers for yourself and your poor, hapless children! How I pity them and all like them! I shudder to think that, instead of being raised “in the nurture and admonition of the Lord,” they’re being taught that God is petty, cruel, vindictive, arbitrary, capricious, and at peace with punishing the innocent who couldn’t sin if they wanted to!
If people find their children are becoming little monsters, instead of blaming their behavior on Adam, perhaps they would do well to look a little closer home for the source of the trouble. Surely, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Or to put it another way, “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”
Pro choice. People have the right to choose if they want a child or not. One should not be forced to follow thru with a pregnancy is one does not want to. Mistakes are made and some result in pregnancies. Pro choice is a great thing and will always be supported by many people in this country
Anon: “Pro-choice” is a transparent euphemism for executing defenseless preborns before they have a chance or even the ability to protest. The supposed “right to choose [the death of your own offspring]” was one of imaginary rights the Supremes manufactured in order to knuckle under to an angry, vociferous minority but which is not found nor even alluded to in the U.S. Constitution. Did you know that Harry Blackmun, who wrote both Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton, the latter of which made abortion legal throughout all nine months of pregnancy, was being harangued at home by his wife and at work by his law clerk to find some way, any way to legalize abortion-on-demand?
The “choice” to execute one’s own children may seem like a wonderful choice, esp. to the sexually and financially irresponsible men who don’t want to care for their own offspring, but it’s not a very nice option for those who die in the process of someone else exercise that purported “right.”
I am for pro-choice, choosing not to engage in intimacies. Once a child is conceived the time to choose is over, but as with many things, people have found another way to make money and abortion has become big business…and sending us right down the same path the Germans took which ended with human life being expendable… All life, the handicapped, the elderly, the Jews, the unborn. People continue to try to play God, with disastrous results. We have examples of great empires as they crumbled from within but we, too, are going to follow suit because that is what sin does, it destroys. People have trouble denying themselves. No self discipline.
When I look at the perfection apparent in this beautiful baby girl and see the atrocity done to her, I can’t help but think of all of those women whose arms ache to have a child of their own,but are unable. What an abomination. Even worse they now harvest them for stem cells and organs. Depravity knows no bounds.
Each and every child is God’s creation and even though people make mistakes, God never does.
Live Action’s latest explosive report shows organization-wide abuses, lawbreaking, and corruption at Planned Parenthood, America’s largest abortion corporation. Read the report.