Five police officers along with a social worker from Barnevernet stormed Margaret Hennum’s house. In true 1930’s Nazi style, they took Caspian, the above sleeping infant from his crib. In fact, this picture is taken not long before the kidnapping.
Context: Margaret is a neonatal intensive care nurse working in Norway and she has been housing Nadia and her infant son Caspian for the past month. Nadia has been discharged from a Mother’s Home in Norway about a month ago and she has been housed by Margaret’s family since then. Their story was published anonymously by Chris Reimers here. They are no longer anonymous. They are desperate after what they experienced today.
While Nadia was at an appointment, Barnevernet backed by police showed up and snatched the baby under the pretext that the baby does not have identification. Just like that. There was nothing Margaret with her credentials could do.
The police admitted that they didn’t really understand the situation, they just had orders that had to be carried out. No court orders were shown. No arrest warrants. No real motive. The family were just told that a mother and her son are being sought out. Margaret reports that the policeman in charge had a very sad and troubled look on his face, yet he went along with this terrible operation.
How can this happen in a modern civilized country?
I avoided referring to Norway and to Barnevernet as a Nazi system until now. I instructed all the speakers at the April 16th protest in Los Angeles not to mention any association between Norway’s CPS and Nazism or Fascism. We wanted to stay positive and constructive. We wanted to appeal to reason.
But this is too much.
This is what Nazis did in the 1930-40’s. They would storm houses looking for Jews and children of Jews. When they found them they would take them away. Forever.
It is exactly what the Norwegian CPS/Police extraction team performed today.
The entire world will now find out what happened in Brandal, Norway.
Thank you Margaret for your courage. Thank you Wings of the Wind, Agnus Dei and Steven Bennett for spreading the story.
Please share with everyone.
Delight in Truth 
I have no words… People, keep sharing your pain. The whole world must know. Not only that there IS a problem but that there is PLENTY of it. We people on the other side must not deny this. We should start seeing clearly and should care. Today it has happened to you. Tomorrow it can happen to us. Things could get changed if enough people know and care (and pray!).
I would go to court, ask for an urgent interim court order to suspend the emergency care order, while the whole proceeding goes on, right now, based on Article 13 of ECHR, and mention alleged violation of Articles 6 and 8 of ECHR.
Otherwise, get a good attorney as soon as possible and discuss if suspected abuse of authority is to be reported to the police.
Good thinking if the justice system is in functioning order in child cases, Jasper. Unfortunately our court system is part and parcel of the whole CPS misery.
What you suggest here is, isn’t it, in fact exactly what the Bodnarius did. They tried to get the court to give all the children back early this winter, to let them come home until the County Committee decided whether the children should be in public care permanently. Ezekiel was allowed to go home, the others not.
Our courts tend to think like all the rest: When children have been taken, it must because there was probably something very reprehensible going on at home. Even such a probability / possibility must count much more strongly than what the parents want. It is taken for granted that the children are utterly safe as long as they are in Barnevernet’s hands, and since the idea has taken root that it does not really matter to children WHO has the function of being their “parents”, the possible harm that might come to children from being separated from their real family is not recognised, or is explicitly denied.
I agree about Articles 8, 6 and 13, Jasper. But getting a case actually through to Strasbourg takes several years, and are paid only lip service to in the Norwegian judicial system. They have a tendency of almost a hundred per cent of just cementing earlier judgments in favour of the official view.
Here we have today’s counter to politician Mr Wedler. Studsrød and Tuastad are talking through their hat, in my opinion, but their “arguments” are what goes. It is going to be a very long road to change it.
“Christian Wedler vil tilbake til et mer politisert barnevern, som om ingen rettsstatlig diskusjon har funnet sted” (CW wants to go back to a more politicised BV, as if no rule of law discussion had taken place)
Link and short comments here: http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37521#p37521
I have read Mr. Wedler’s proposals.
I agree with him that there is a lack of control. However I don’t think politician’s are the correct tribunal for control. Courts would be the perfect tribunal for control.
The problems with courts seem to be that there is no quick enough legal remedy and courts seem to be not indepentent/impartial enough.
I would say if you are a child and child welfare takes you from your parents like a thunderbolt, this has to be treated at least as dangerous from human rights like an arrest. The story should get to a real court (and not County Welfare Board) within a few days even if parents were not appealing and child welfare should prove that they had enough evidence at the time they went for the emergency care order, that it was the best interest, not speculated but evindece-based.
Still, I would advice to do this in parallel with any activities. Appeal, even to Strasbourg.
The first precedent could help all other families struggling. The issue is that there were no precedent yet that made to the European Court for Human Rights.
This was the system in Norway before 1992. We had local politicians attending the Barnevernsnemd – they could be the neighbour of someone involved or a person that had local knowledge and history already Attached to the parents involved. These politicians had none or little knowledge about laws, general knowledge of the situation for children and parenting, how the CPS Works and how to differ the general from the situation for only few, psychology, pedagogy, sociology, culture in a mixed society a.s.o. We worked out the Whole case and sent it to them for Reading – the parent(s) lawyer likewise. We never lost a case. These politicians were called “sand sprinklers”. The parent(s) had no real Security under Law. Now we read on Your pages of cases where the parent(s) are heard and win – children are returned. That tells me about a funcitonate system … after all .. when it comes to the decisions finally made. The timeframe in some cases are unacceptable – that’s another story. I have noticed that Ms. M want us back to those days – With members accepting whatever we wrote if they only got their sandwich With ham.
Knut,
you also mention timeframes were unacceptable in some cases.
I think Mr. Wedler is right in one topic: there is too little external control — and by admitting unacceptable timeframes, I guess you admit this part as well.
However I don’t think Mr. Wedler has the right proposal, I don’t think the politicians should be in such a direct control [and it is not about possible bias only]. Personally I think the best would be to have better processes (that also means better Child Welfare Act), requiring a court approval within a few days, just like taking an adult into a criminal custody, and the general assumption should be (also due to risk of SAD) that the best interest of the children is to stay with family, and only in case of clear evidence (and not speculative conclusions on weak observational basis) should the court approve the emergency care order.
Also, there are some work to do on the indenedence and impartiality of courts, according to the concern letter from last summer.
The municipalities should be able to trigger audits — and if they think there is something very wrong in a particular case, they should report suspected abuse of authority to police.
Jasper: “The municipalities should be able to trigger audits — and if they think there is something very wrong in a particular case, they should report suspected abuse of authority to police.”
Yes, Jasper, but as things are, the courts will have their work cut out for them because there is something very wrong in the large majority of cases, and the police and the judges in court talk and reason exactly as our authorities want them to: like Barnevernet themselves. – Certainly the best thing of all would be to get all the case handling back to the ordinary courts.
To get at least a vestige of political responsibility back in individual cases would be an improvement on the way things are now.
One more comment: as far as I understood what I read some weeks ago by Google translate, Gro Hillestad Thune proposed that municipality CPS should have no power for emergency care orders — and County Board should be the entrance level for emergency care orders.
I would say it would be still reasonable if emergency orders could be done still by municipality but they would lapse without a CC decision in 72 hours. And there should be a quick legal remedy against CC decision on emergency care order at the District Court, to be discussed in District Court out of turn, within another 72 hours.
That should be a fair minimum of change in the processes for the future.
For the past, offering children to go back to parents if they want to makes most sense.
I’m sorry, Jasper, that don¨t work in Norway. Cps is over the law, and can do what they want, whit approval of the state. Human rights is something Norway only use to say to the world, “that we follows it”. Human rights dosen’t exist in the land of Norway!
That is so heartbreaking. I know Margaret was caring greatly for Nadia and Caspian and Nadia proved to be a good mother. She did that to save her boy. What is happening? She was able to live one month as everybody else wants, free, not being observed for every little thing, not to be judged. Now they took the little boy, was he in danger? Not. Even women, who are in prison are able to keep their little babies in the first years, because the bond between the mother and baby is so precious. This is outrages.
Delight in Truth:
“The police admitted that they didn’t really understand the situation, they just had orders that had to be carried out. No court orders were shown. No arrest warrants. No real motive. The family were just told that a mother and her son are being sought out. Margaret reports that the policeman in charge had a very sad and troubled look on his face, yet he went along with this terrible operation.”
It reminds me: A writer on Forum Redd Våre Barn (forum.r-b-v.net), one who has succeeded in rescuing his family from Norway before it was too late, mentioned a while back that he had come across a Norwegian policeman and asked him seriously how the police could let themselves be used as a tool in such a way. The policeman replied that since the police do not possess “barnevernfaglig kompetanse” (child-protection-expert competence) they did not question Barnevernet’s orders.
It is, once again, the old story of everybody in our lackadaisical, self-satisfied society leaning on everybody else and avoiding answering for anything they do. The reaction to any blame directed to them personally is: “Who – – me?”
It’s hard to believe this was a kidnapping when the police was involved. WW2 ended in 1945 and Norway is a free and democratic country just like the USA. Again – you tell little or nothing about what is the story behind – why are the CPS interested in both Nadia and the baby? Margareth is of cause no parent or legal part.
Norway claims to be democratic and it portrays a false image of democracy. However, other than they discovered oil under sea, the country is well knows for its absurd CPS laws and abuses against good and supportive parents.
Only among you activists. There is so much going on in the world that some internet stories coming from Norway – from felt .. victims and activists … is unnoticeable. You in the USA has a massacre to handle – a president to choose and from my window I would have neither of them – we have a Soccer EM going on and a Norwegian hostage taken by ISIS that are about to loose his head just because Norway is following the handling of Big Brother USA – not to pay out hostages.
To K.N. It is not because there are so many tragedies in the world that in Norway horrible things are seen as legal and happen again and again. Why in the name of God send the police to claim a baby, if the baby has a home and a mother? Aren’t other methods to HELP and PROTECT babies, different from those? Do you feel it is good and normal…?
Sure, there are also mass beheadings of Christians in Syria, Irak, Africa and other parts of Asia. There is continental famine in Africa. The life expectancy in some African country is in the 30s and 40s.
And it is not that we do not care about all of those things. We do. But guess what…
Barnevernet action is now on the world stage just like the above mentioned items, Knut.
Agnes D, great point !
❤
Did you get an answer?
You see, nobody in positions in Norway will answer your/ our good questions..
This makes perhaps the world think that we don't ask, or fight, but there is an wall of silence; the system protecting itself.
Nobody in any position will give any answer, because if one person or family would win over the system, it would be chaos – all the houndreds of thousands of others would clame the same rights.
Another reason they never answer good questions is eighter they don't know or they' are brainwashed to love and believe in this system (socialism), and nobody is welcomed to question it.
I tried for 8 years, I've written thousands of pages, not ONE answer, excuse or given ANY rights, just no! Thats all they say: NO!
I don’t think so. You like the thought of thinking so, but it’s not near the truth. I understand that activists need motivation and ammunition to keep up the fighting spirit. You know that the chronics in Norway haven’t achieved anything – they are just talking to the same handful of people. They are not heard in Norwegian context, but for you newcomers they are seen as the oracle of knowledge telling the truth about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole. Not one case is solved on the internet – it’s solved because the parent is doing the necessary moves that make it unnecessary for the CPS to be concerned with this particular family.
What kind of ammunition?
As far as I understand everyone here would be happy if the flow of ammunition stopped and there were no more cases were children were taken into foster care on speculative conlusions made on weak observational basis…
Or is there someone really need ammunition? Perhaps 3rd party service providers??
Legally-techincally they are not kindaps.
However could be still criminal offence: abuse of authority.
I wonder when Norge people (even politicians) will be fed up enough with the practices of some child welfare staff (if you are not a child welfare officer who does not take a child into forced foster care for nonsense do not take it personal) so that they start reporting suspected abuse of authority to the police.
It’s much more likely that the politicians will be fed up with the movement who needs ammunition and stear up as much unnecessary fear especially in parents of foreign origion that they interfer with the work to be done by municipal public service. In the municipal public service there are two groups that are especially protected both by duty service and interference – and that is the people with diagnosis and the children and their parents in the CPS. Such interference that Margaret is a part of raise political anger and irritation.
I don’t see any movement that needed any ammunition. I guess we all hope there will be no more ammunition at all.
I see a public service created for good intents originally, but it is pretty blinkered and only sees the risk of too little intervention but seems to be blind on too big intervention, and children crying for their parents. Plus most likely a culture of covering up failures instead of correcting them. Plus some private third party service providers who can make big profit out of all these.
Show some empathy, Knut! The background of the story can be read at the link I provided at the top of the article.
There is kidnapping and kidnapping… When police is involved, does this mean the reasons given by Bv people are legitimate, appropriate, honorable, human…? Before a child is removed, a whole legal process must occur (your law says so, why it is not followed…?)… and a real court, a commission of independant (even financially) experts should be consulted. Before, not afterwards!
Knut, If you are truly representing barnefjernet (meaning: removing the children – instead of “barnevernet” meaning: save the children far away from it’s parents!) don’t you have to keep your mouth shot, by law, as the rest of them? Do you have any right to discuss any of these matters??
Just asking..
And, thank you Jasper and agnesD for great points ❤
Yeah, of cause we are free to discuss and have opinions just like you. I’m not representing the CPS in a broad context – I have tried to give you general information about the public service we do and try to give the readers abroad some true general information about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS. Our duty silence rest on the repect to the children and the families involved – not to the CPS in general context.
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As far as I understand this situation is the the mother no longer accepted the voluntary help measure given to her – the CPS is of unknown reasons not sure if that is in the interest for the best for the child and future. My guess is that she is now over in a forced help measure mood. Maybe the mother had listened to activists saying that if ti’s voluntary you are free to leave the measure as you want – and even better – you can stay with me – I shall protect you.
Not accepting measures that are voluntary might be some small factor pointing into the direction of any non-voluntary measures.
Still, for each non-voluntary measures child welfare needs evidence that those measures are in best interest of the children.
Due to risk of Separation Anxiety Disorder, forced foster care should have far far more evidence than lack of cooperation — or Big Brother is watching you in Norway and of course Big Brother is always right so he needs no evidence at all.
Yes, Jasper, well pointed out! You are exactly right…
Knut Nygaard is an school-exsample og how we are formed in Norway.
He is the good and knows Norway do Nothing wrong. There is always in his mind the great thinker, and ewerybody is as great thinkers as him, as long as he say the political correkt. And maybe he have children or hope to get some one day, so we kik the fragile one and stey strong by the strong : Like a real big viking of Norway ; PJUK !
Knut, you tell us: “..you tell little or nothing about what is the story behind – why are the CPS interested in both Nadia and the baby..”, Believe me, there is not much I would like more these days than to look into all of the cases where barnevernet and police storms into family homes scaring everybody with the intention to remove children far away from parents.
All of us (except barnevernet) would love more openness into why barnevernet acts as they do in thousands of cases, thus we would beeing able to argue the cases/ issues, the forced “help measures” (or else), bv’s decisions and not least the removal of infants!
Why is it difficult to comprehend for social workers that storming into private homes with police is not how “help” should be carried out.
As I understand, the mother declined “help” from barnevernet, understandable enough. Is that a parents right to say no, by the way, is the “help” realy voluntary?
No knut, it’s by force, and this is why the system has got to change. You see, barnevernet view single mothers as too big risk for a child to grow up with – and this is the real issue: the education of social workers, the ideology they are beeing indoctrined in higher education; prejudice against very many kinds of parents.
What good can come out of police actions like these? 5 policemen? And barnevernet fights us when we call it gestapo? It is so sad barnevernet can’t see the harm and pain they are causing 😦
Very well said Trine. I can only imagine taking children like that if the children are at immediate danger or harm. Then I mean real harm..not lack of emotional attachement or some pseudoanalysis like that. The baby was not harmed in any way, the baby was very well cared for and had it good. They can not excuse such an action. SO now they took him to some unknown home, unknown people. Knut, how do you think this baby feels now with complete strangers? I surely hope this baby will be returned ASAP.
This so called voluntary measure in the mothers home, we read about it and how that was. Actually the mother had no other choice.
One of the things Solveig Horne and her Ministry have been bragging about, is having a law passed which makes “receiving help from Barnevernet” obligatory for parents. The law is in effect from this year.
Perhaps google translate is ok:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35570#p35570
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35716#p35716
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35717#p35717
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36207#p36207
So there is no longer any point in calling it “help” and certainly not “voluntary”.
Mrs Horne’s “reason” for going for such a law is supposed to be (she has repeated it endlessly many times) that this will improve the parenting so that it becomes unnecessary to take the children into care. Everybody who knows what Barnevern’s “help” consists of, knows that it is an extra burden and stressor. It may delay the taking into care by a few months, but will make it all the more sure to come, when Barnevernet has pressed the mother/parents to such an extent that they have told Barnevernet off, or tried to regain their freedom. And in the meantime Barnevernet has had plenty to do, which puts them in a position of showing the authorities how much they have to deal with, so that they “need more money and people”.
Pavla, this baby better be returned ASAP. Margaret is very well connected because of her profession and because of the support system she has on FB.
In her meeting with police and BV today, she told them that she will make this into another Bodnariu case.
She left them speechless!
If you are an activist you are not in the position to cooperate with the CPS. I don’t know what municipality this happen, but Mararet is living in Hareid municipality – nearest town Ålesund. Where the mother has her address could be elsewhere. So – Margaret and the movement need some new ammunition material and I wonder if this mother is asked to be the next one in line. She is not a part in any ongoing case – what she do as an activist is not of the CPS’s interest. The only thing that the local CPS take in from her comment – if true ?? – is the same that the Naustdal municipality took in – “we must do everything right according to laws and regulations”. Yeah, the Bodnariu’s will be used tried as a threat and mothers and babies found to be new ammunition for the movement of steared up fear and for something else that no one knows what should be. Smart move, Margaret. It’s good that we have the police to stand bye when activists are playing out their roles.
Knut, Margaret had the family as guests in their house. That’s why she is a witness. That’s it and I cannot see anything more.
What kind of ammunition are you talking about?
Yez exactly, Pavla, thanks for your great inputs 🙂 as always.
How does the baby feel now?
And the mother, how does she feels…do barnevernet consider human feelings???
Voluntary measures, are nothing but beeing treated as a criminal, dumb, mentally disturbed – and if they can’t put you into eigther of these categories, they will lie it on you, then storm your home with the police, not to save anybody – by the way, but to scare the shit out of you, let the neighbous start watch you as a criminal..so they will be informants..and so on and on, gestapo!
BIG offends of our human rights, if barnevernet thinks about parents and their children as humans… I don’t think so!
The way barnevernet treats single mothers will stop right now, enough is enough!
The world will fight with us. ❤ Thank you for not giving up on fight for human rights under the horror parents & children have to deal with on daily basis in Norway. Perhaps next year you all will get the Nobel's peace price in Oslo 🙂
Thank you Trine. We all certainly hope, that the families, that had their children unfairly taken from them will get justice. Its not possible to take the children out of the families, unless absolutely necessary. Those assistant measures also do not sound very well. As one father said..they came to my house, they have filmed how I have woken up my child, how I dressed him, fed him, interacted with him. To have children in Norway is like to be in a horror movie.
Now I can imagine that many families are not affected, less than 1 % of the children are taken (not sure about the percentage of families that gets assistance measures). So one can live in a country and have no idea about what is happening.
I am disgusted of the sick and corrupt sistem in Norway .
I have, and i will still use every opportunity to spread the awarness to the true nature of the so called democracy in Norway.
I can not understand how long will the normal people of Norway tolerate this criminals who run up and down the country like hungry hienas looking for the next victim.
Shame to Norway shame to a country who pride itself to be some exemple in the world.
Better to live in the desert then to share the space with the unspeakable evil called Barnevernet.
Corrupt?? Where in this story – so far – do you see any corruption? Is there anything that we in the publc services fall for it’s corruption – that you can buy yourself out of a case or get a CPS worker to turn the blind eye.
Normal People of Norway do not read facebook stories as the truth – they know that the truth is in the archieves of the local CPS and in some maps in the privacy of the parent(s) involved. An action as this done in this headliner article must have a conclusion in the bottom where the history behind and why it’s done will give the Reader understanding and truth.
Archives, files, documents of the CPS= truth?
Please, let us understand if there is something to understand. The practice in itself is sickening. Police versus mother and baby!
In the legal case the documents on the child is sent to parent(s) lawyer and most of the documents follow the case to the CC. We do not send emotions – that of couse are another part of the case work. Police are just a standbyer – in Norway most people respect people in uniform than in ordinary clothes – so the work to be done according to the decision done can be carried out to the best of all involved.
Knut, here you have an obvious bias for CPS.
Witness testimonies are on the same level of confidence as CPS documents.
Witness testimony can happen on FB as well.
And neither is full truth in itself. Either or both could be partial or even flawed.
If witness testimony and CPS documents are contradicting, the juridical process is the one to resolve these contradictions and uncover the truth.
One viewed cases on the internet are of no value as real information have. Real information = the information given to end up as a decision. It’s that decision the lawyer for the private part must try to alter or find a cooperative mood that give the part a chance. The socalled witness stories just tell the bias to the sender without any possibility for the reader to know what is the reality in that given context.
I am not talking about so-called witness stories.
I am talking about witnesses, having personal experience with Barnevernet.
That is a big difference.
Yeah – and they are for the most part oneviewed. I have only spoken of those who find themselves as victims in or after the involvement of the public service done – or feared done – by the local CPS.
are you not one-viewed?
This people who find themselves victims have an emergency care order on their children, and CPS was not choosing the cooperation with them.
Sawdust and the plank in the eyes…
You remind me of a boxer, Knut.
You are dodging and weaving. And you are getting punched and pretty soundly I would say. You continue to defend your employer even though it is responsible for this? You take a “This is the way the system works” attitude. If this is the way the system works, it must be discarded, or overhauled, as many have said repeatedly.
You write: “Normal People of Norway do not read facebook stories as the truth.”
This is not true. I’m pretty sure at least a million (a low guess) do just this everyday.
You can attempt to blunt the blow of this true account so that others might not believe it. It is not working in my case.
Not these activism against the Norwegian CPS. The readers are the same clan – some hundreds on each activist page.
I disagree. The numbers are growing, Knut. It isn’t only hundreds anymore.
In this case, the truth comes from the person who experienced this FIRST HAND.
That is the main point…
You mean the activist – Margaret?
Knut, she is an eye-witness and a participant. First hand information
She is from a CPS angle an activist and not useful as eyewitness other than on facebook and for the activist movement.
is she a client in this particular CPS case or not?
Activist and witness are not excluding each other.
However you can be a witness only for what you have seen, heard, experienced.
(I would say most of CPS staff can be also considered as activists — perhaps for generating the load for the 3rd party service providers?)
Knut, lier lier, pants on fire !
The system is corrupt, or else: open the cases so we can see the “truth” and shut up.
Hahaha: here is the truth according to you “..the archieves of the local CPS and in some maps in the privacy of the parent(s) involved..” this is exactly the problem, those lies!
What exactly do social workers learn at school about christian parents and single mothers?
What are the theories (I seriously wan’t to read it!) and the academic research-based evidence of these parents lack of caring abilities, that the police and barnefjern have to storm in, removing babies, as in this case as well as the Bodnariu case?
Just in case it confuses somebody to read about “some maps”, which Mr Nygaard speaks about: he probably means files (Norw. “mapper” means binders, folders with papers etc.)
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/04/16/nyheter/innenriks/barnevern/43870228/
The CPS were given the choice between a judgment against him in the County Council, or a generous settlement with the parents. The municipality had to give up and the children are back with their parents.
True, just look at the picture in the banner at the top of the page!
The picture is very good. Let’s hope that will follow this family – to show the supporters just as much as they are recognizable and then fade out of media and continue with their normal activities as a reunited family with parents that have a cooperative help measure process to do with the CPS.
Knut,
for this family only, I agree.
The concern letter from last summer is still not answered, though.
The statistics are still awful.
And new cases are popping up every now and then.
So, on system level there is still much to do.
For the Norwegian Goverment, to deal with the topics of the concern letter.
For the Council of Europe to monitor.
Just one more comment: the banner picture tells a lot about the best interests of the children in B. family 🙂
Reblogged this on Dumnezeu e în control.
I have been the a same, Delight.
Up until now I have been very careful not to use the word “Nazi.” Why? Mostly because that term brings up such visceral response throughout the entire world. I also didn’t want to seem to be some sort of zealot who didn’t have “the facts” as Knut would put it.
The story you have covered here is truth. As you have mentioned, it was my blog on which this story was published anonymously. It was done so in order to protect this mother from an action just like this. In fact, I felt is was brave of Nadia to print such an account. I tried to cover her as much as possible. It was insisted upon that the correct names of the “Mothers’ homes” be used. I wanted to change them because I knew they could be a possible way of tracking Nadia and Caspian. Nadia wanted the story out so that others might be helped. This is her result.
I have no problem with you, myself, or anyone else using the term “Nazi” as it relates to this story. It is actions like these that have caused the visceral responses of so many to use the term. I have seen it used many times.
How can one not compare the two when actions like this occur?
In that case you find the “nazi’s” all over the Western world – in your backyard too, Chris.
It is the same tired answer. Knut, you can be consistent at times.
Reblogged this on ENCOURAGE by cornelilioi.
Knut Nygaard, isn’t it CORRUPTION when Norwegian CPS bosses instruct their employees to confiscate as many children as possible even without proof of any abuse for the more activity (and employees) they have, the higher salaries and more benefits they have? Corruption – impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle, dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers).
No one outside the activist movement have these kind of thoughts. We are doing a necessary public service and nothing would have been better than that the whole municipality seemed to be without this kind of help.
Margaret is pediatric nurse (as is Ruth Bodnariu).Who better to help take care of a child?
Then Ruth should not have accepted that her husband were violent with their children and be involved herself.
Then Margaret should have tried to voice her help intentions to the CPS – with an intention to be considered as a help measure for …. 18 to 23 years?? – if that’s the case – it’s better for the child to be raised from someone like Margaret – that as in the “I am Sam” movie could be a mother that could be a viewable part of the childs future.
“Then Margaret should have tried to voice her help intentions to the CPS – with an intention to be considered as a help measure for …. 18 to 23 years??”
Again you show some of your hand, Knut.
Stop fooling around by adding question marks.
Anyone who knows this story at all can see that it was CPS “help” that put this woman in a Home for Mothers. Why would she ever want to go back there for help? It is a place where there is only observation and criticism. There is no help. It is the opposite.
“We are doing a necessary public service and nothing would have been better than that the whole municipality seemed to be without this kind of help.”
You are showing almost your full hand of cards here, Knut. It is very sad.
It is double-speak. If your organization followed your words literally, Knut,the baby wouldn’t have been stolen from its mother. Another of your fancy tricks. I think everyone knows what you mean.
There are pretty many who are starting to have those thougts.
Also MPs in Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe. Their motion refers to an outstandingly high rate of emergency care orders per year per capita…
You are not doing anyone any “service” by taking away a baby from his or her mummy!!! A case like the one mentioned here is corrupt! There was no sort of danger involved. Taking away a child from its parents should be absolutely the last resort after every effort is given to help. The mother was recieving help and still Barnevernet sent police to take the baby away. This is stealing! This is corrupt! Barnevernet will not get away with this!
I don’t know this case as most of the other cases going on in the CPS, but I’m sure the mother know why and that the action done by the police came from a decision that has something to do with the future for this mother and her baby. Staying in an activists home does not solve the situation. The activist is not a legal part and need no explanation – the mother does – if needed. Ir seems to me that you lack knowledge of what corrupt and corruption is, Hildegunn.
This mother and child were lovingly helped and taken care of by someone with experience. I can imagine that the mother was getting lots of encouragement, respect and help to become a good mother. There was someone there who believed that she could be a good mother. Someone there who didn’t just look for mistakes but looked at the hidden treasures that would one day shine provided that the mother was given lots of love and time to mature.
But, unfortunately, Barnevernet thinks they can look into the future… They steal and ruin before something has even started…
I agree with you Hildi. Knut sees Margaret only as an activists, but she is a pediatric nurse with many years of experience. She can very well evaluate if the baby is developing well and what care it gets from its mother. She was saying very positive things about Nadia. If the baby was not in danger of harm of gross neglect, then there is no reason to take him.
You are right, Pavla. And I also find it so lovely what Margaret was doing; taking this mother and child into her home to give them genuine love and care, just like nurturing a plant that one day would bloom and grow:-)
The way Barnevernet just burst in and took the baby while the mother was having an appointment and while the baby was sleeping and taken well care of, shows a total lack of respect and human dignity from Barnevernet!
FIVE police officers to take a baby! Barnevernet have really lost their minds!!!
Getting to know barnevernet, it strikes me the difference between how they, unlike the rest of us meet people in need of help. In health care we try to support people to make them achieve optimal functioning. In the CPS on the contrary, people are stressed by them to find how people are acting at the worst!
This is what happens in those mother homes. And the CPS calls this help, advice and support! The rest of us calls it terror! This is why Nadia took her baby boy with her to live a “free” life. For the first time after the boy was born, 5 months ago!
Dehumanizing behaviour towards mothers and children. No surprise people are reacting, worldwide! I must ask myself, how could it possibly last for so long before people reacted?
So true what you are writing, Margaret! How I wish all the mothers who might just need a little help to get started in the mother role would be cared for so lovingly as you did for this mother, Margaret!
How hard and cold must the hearts be from those working in the so called “mother homes” if what they do is to watch intently to find faults with the mothers.It breaks my heart to think of how the mothers are treated in such an unworthy way and under so much pressure to succeed. They must feel like in a prison.
I just had to think about my plants outside in my garden. When I took them outside in May, some of them looked very miserable and I was almost about to give them up and throw them into the compost. Fortunately, I didn`t. After some warm temperatures and watering, they are now blooming again beautifully.
This is the same for us as humans. Sometimes in life we just need some extra love, care and guidance. It may take some time. But sometimes flowers sprout out when and where one doesn`t expect them to…;-)
I think the reason why people don`t react is because they trust the system too much. But maybe, and I hope so, when the wrongdoings get more and more exposed, people will start to wake up after a while.
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/04/16/nyheter/innenriks/barnevern/43870228/
“The CPS were given the choice between a judgment against him in the County Council, or a generous settlement with the parents. The municipality had to give up and the children are back with their parents….But first we must rejoice with the happyend. A family that was broken up are brought together again and it’s the only thing that matters this summer. But the last word is not said.”
Hildi: “It breaks my heart to think of how the mothers are treated in such an unworthy way and under so much pressure to succeed.”
Isn’t is even worse, Hildi? They are not under pressure to succeed as mothers, they are under pressure NOT to succeed, under pressure to show unhappiness, depression, despair, be so down-at-the-heel that Barnevernet can claim they do not show any interest or any adequate care for their child.
Then Barnevernet takes the child away, and claim that the mother has not received or benefited from their “help”.
Here we see how twisted Ms. M is in her brainwashed agenda against the CPS as a whole – of cause every one involved hope for the mother to succeed.
You will not discredit Marianne, Knut. She has been involved in this issue for far too long and her voice is one of clarity and knowledge.
I would accuse you of what you have made of Marianne here. Only, I think the truth is far worse.
Exactly Marianne! Your description is very accurate! In a mothers home you are deliberately stressed to show how you are functioning in situations of stress! And if you don´t do well under those circumstances, you are not a person to help your child to survive! ( Kari Killén). So many reports from those intitutions are referring to the mother´s unsolved problems, never mentioning what they are. And they never concider their methods of measuring the mothers abilyties as a problem!
When the baby was about three months, their test result were ok. Why didn´t barnevernet leave them in peace then?
After about three months in CPS institutions the family came to us. To be left in peace from barnevernet. And we did leave them in peace. Of course we have the meals together , we talk, and sing and laugh together. And my husbond and I are a kind of grandparents to the child, like looking after him asleep when his mother went to the hairdresser, the day barnevernet regarded him in acute danger, sleeping in his bed!
The mother has taken the full responibily of her child, and even taken part in ordinary work in the house. And yes, I have given her my exellent recipe for wheat buns, and yes my caring and singing and styorytelling and musical husbond has been playing with Caspian like like: ” Up in the forest, up in the forest, chopping wood, chopping wood. Cold on your feet, cold on your feet, running home, running home, running home”, while moving the feet of a exited boy!
Today, two days after they took him, Caspian were allowed to see his loving mum again. The smile was not there when he woke up. And the very talketive boy was silent. So terribly silent!! After one hour with his mum, he carefully said some “words”, and in the end of the meeting we recognised the happy boy, communicating and responding to his mother.
This behaviour we expect to find in the reports from the CPS persons: When meeting his mother, Caspian is not as smiling and talking as in his foster house. Because this was the CPS reaction when I shocked and sad told them: Caspian is completely silent!
Margaret, I guess the family might need your testimony, at least when the case gets into District Court…
However a written testimony about the child being silent / becoming talkative could be helpful in a written form for the CC decision already.
And now it becomes a topic of fair process or not with respect to European Court of Human Rights Article 6. The legal principle of equality of arms is at stake, what CC or District Court does with controversial evidence.
Margaret expressed it succincly over the phone yesterday: The mother Nadya and her son need no help other than to be together and be left in peace by Barnevernet.
Sadly, that seems to be the truth, as you say Marianne. From what I read, it seems they are being lured into these mothers places only to be put so much under stress and pressure that it is impossible to do anything right. When they have gathered enough evidence that the mother is incapable of taking care of her child, it is taken away from her.
I would say that these so called mother’s “homes” are the big losers if what they do is to destroy a mother child bond.
So true, Margaret. “.unlike the rest of us meet people in need of help. In health care we try to support people to make them achieve optimal functioning. In the CPS on the contrary, people are stressed by them to find how people are acting at the worst!..”
point on, this is the VERY scary truth about norwegian cps, and the real issue the norwegian media should dig into!
Forced “help”measures in order to steal children, by predetermined tactics that bv workers are drilled in for 3 years. How to easy steal children from their parents, recipe: By force observerere mother and child for a minimum of 3 months (so called voluntarily help measures), make false claims about any detail possible, psychoanalyze her and her infant’s thoughts, feelings and future, without beeing psychology professionals, or psychic. Focus on the mother’s negative characteristics; write it down as a truth in the files, tell her (in front of others) her lack of caring abilities, her lacking capabilities to see her child’s emotional needs, tell her she is not a good mother or person in any way, tell her she is mentally disturbed and neglects her children, put her down in any way possible! And not at least blame the mother that the help measures did not lead to the desired result..then fylkesnemda (court) will give cps the child in 85 % of the cases.
(By the way, this is not something I experienced personally -I read it in their books, mentioned here earlier)
Thus barnevernet acts like one, looks like one: Psychopath/ sosiopath!
My guess is that 98% of the norwegians don’t know that this is going on, evil set into system, they would no way accept that, including the Parliament and the Royal family.
The media are preventing the truth and justice, by twisting horrific facts about barnevernets actions into bv’s favour, and right now this is our biggest enemy, “the twisted media”*).
Nevertheless I am happy, because mothers in Norway stares the monster in the eye and defend their children and themselves , even though scared to death by what (the monster) barnevernet, the police, the muncipality, the state, *) even how media and the court will twist bv’s evil actions and lies against them personally, their family and home – into accusations of the mother and her network.
These mothers starts standing up for themselves – even though it might cost them their lifes (because it’s close to impossible to win and survive this kind of persecution) fighting for their right to start a family, their right to be with their babies, and the baby’s rights to grow up with mummy and mother’s love!
It will take time to wake up the rich, sleepy norwegians, so that they hopefully will allow also women and mothers humanrights, justice and freedom of speech. Meanwhile the monster goes lunatic in stealing babies, and knut, the bv activist, cover their backs 😦
Pinch my cheeks, is this a nightmare??!!
The major problem pretty often seems to be that Barnevernet does not think it could be possible that their intervention could have side-effects. They seem to think they cannot cause side-effects per definition. (I think such people should not be allowed to provide expert opinions for courts at all).
So the more intervention they do, the more likely there could be side-effects which they will immeadiately put on parents’ account without thinking.
This seems to be a completely flawed methodology and trampling science and psychology into the mud. Unless independent experts were allowed to make questions there are reasonable doubts that the symptoms found by Barnevernet are pure side-effects of their intervention only, it is also trampling due process and human rights into the mud as well.
Cool. This answers one of my questions. At least we are able to see pictures of the family from afar. I am so curious to know the stipulations of the deal between the Bodnariu lawyers and Norway’s CPS lawyers. For the safety of the family, I will give up that curiosity as it really isn’t important. It’s not as important as an entire family’s togetherness.
Mr. Knut is doing everyone a service by exposing Barnevernet even further and elaborating on its procedures. It’s mind-boggling how many brainwashed Norwegians there are who believe that the government can only do good, never anything bad. How dare anyone imply the government is corrupt…. Really Knut? The Bodnariu case has now been finalized. What happens now that BV lost? Is there restitution for the family? Afterall, they lost 7 critical months with their children!!! How are the kids supposed to just forget what happened to them and go forward trusting it’ll never happen again? It’s obvious that BV workers are not qualified to do what they do. Yet, they continue breaking up families, causing trauma and destroying childhoods. Where’s the sense in that? How can that possibly be in the best interest of the child? Denying these logical facts just proves one heartless. Children are all about love and parental bonding. Anyone taking away that from them is doing anything BUT the best interest of the child.
Mon: “Is there restitution for the family? Afterall, they lost 7 critical months with their children!!!”
The system ought to be that large compensations were paid to the family. My suggestion is: NOK 100,000 (≈ US$ 12,000) for EACH child for EACH month it has been kept apart from its family without justification. A similar sum for each parent.
But you can be sure that the agreement implies that any compensation is out of the question. The basic philosophy is that it is nothing but good for children to be taken by Barnevernet.
*
Mon: ” Yet, they continue breaking up families, causing trauma and destroying childhoods. Where’s the sense in that? How can that possibly be in the best interest of the child?”
It isn’t, only in words. It is, however, in the best interest of the parasitic Barnevern industry. That is what it is: parasitic. Most explanations of what is going on have to be seen in the light of that.
There is no compensation in question here – the CPS in Naustdal will say that they just have done their job according to the Child Welfare Act and supervised by the County Council.
It’s the parents that have to raise a case against the CPS and that is out of the question – they are in a process of cooperation to do the help measures agreed about. This is just another day in the work done on the files following the children involved.
The settlement could help Naustdal to avoid such compensation.
I wonder if E. M. from the Czech Republic will be so gracious to the local CPS like the B. family, after many years…
Knut, there are irreversible things happening. The practices of Barnevernet are now in open debate, domestically and internationally, with severe open questions on the system level. I guess CPS / Bufdir / Ministry needs to face these open questions before things can get back to normal.
This is nothing new. The pentacostal Romenian “revival” was new – we have been used to hundred angry muslims some 5-6 years ago – so we have the chronics – like Ms. M that have had angry thoughts about the CPS without any alternative for about 25 years – they have achieved nothing and are unheard in the Norwegian society outside these couple of hundreds.
It’s the private part that must raise the legal question for compensation. If the Czech Republic wants to show it’s attitude they may sponsor the lawyer expences for the private part and the expences for the CPS when the case is closed – I’m sure they loose. I have been accused one time as the case worker together with the leader of the CPS and the mayor in a case concerning sexual abuse and compensation – after – the case was closed as a whole – when the supervision period that lasted for a year was over. The B may raise a compensation case when everything is over, but I think the agreement done make that case a losing one before strated. I must admit I learned a lot of this possible compensation case. The feeling of being the accused one and think that have followed me – I only take the word for a case for the CC when I’m personally convinced it’s the right way to do the daily and future situation best the child involved.
Why are you so sure about the M. case?
I don’t know the details in that case, but I know it’s almost impossible to claim compensation of a municipality that has just done their job and duty according to the Municipal law and the Child Welfare Act.
Let’s turn it around if you know the details in that case – what are the wrongs and what are the harm done by the CPS – the parent(s) and the child must be finished with the CPS to raise a case.
What I know about the case from some Czech sources that the parents (divorced in the meanwhile) have strongly contradicting versions, and it seems CPS accepted the father’s version.
I would not take it granted that the father’s version was true, that should be aslo part of discussion at court. After going through District Court and Appeal Court it can become ‘res judicata’.
To be honest, the csases where the parents are fighting against each other are pretty difficult for CPS — not to become a tool in the hand of one of the parents, but stay with children’s best interest.
In the M. case, processing the case is also extremely slow… CPS seems to be quick to take children into custody and then it seems not to be urgent any more at all…
“In the M. case, processing the case is also extremely slow… CPS seems to be quick to take children into custody and then it seems not to be urgent any more at all…”
This is a very good point, Jasper.
In most of the accounts I have heard, and they are increasing, this has been the case. The Bodnariu case is the classic case and is similar to them all. Some law has been broken, a law that has no common sense I might add but that is besides the point, and it is the smallest of infractions.
What happens?
Instead of suggestions made to correct the “problem” the BV swoops in with unbridled talons and snatches the child from its mother’s arms.
The Bodnarius are fortunate that they had such support within Norway and internationally. Many others have not yet had that same support.
I am aware of an American mother who had this experience:
Her child was well within the normal weight class, but he was a tad underweight. The CPS accuses the mother of not weaning the child soon enough.
This is the only reason given for the talons to snatch the child.
The child is now, because of the actions of Norway’s CPS, in the custody of the CPS until he is 18.
Anyone not familiar with the story may see it here:
I think the only way to fix these is to move powers for long-lasting emergency care orders from the municipality CPS to either County Committee or to District Court, and moving supervision of such orders from County Committee to District Court or to Appeal Court. Also the supervision process needs to be shortened.
As far as I understand this is also the suggestion by Gro Hillestad Thune.
I would still allow municipality CPS to make such an emergency move, but for no more than a few days. Those few days should be enough for Country Committee to discuss for long term.
An interesting resolution by Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe: http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/Xref-XML2HTML-en.asp?fileid=21737&lang=en
These would be big steps in the right direction, Jasper, if I understand the political situation in Norway correctly.
It seems to be a good document that you have shared here. I’ll have to read the rest in a bit, but it starts out very good in my opinion.
I know this is from 2014. I hope things are changing at the NRK.
“The number of foster children adoptions have doubled in five years. The rights of the biological parents is weakened, believes both CPS and lawyers in child welfare cases.”
This headline is framed in a positive way?
https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/flere-adopterer-fosterbarn-1.11742354
Mr Nygaard: “This is nothing new.”
Exactly. It is not new, it has been going on for years, and Barnevernet acts in that way in MOST cases, not in the odd one.
The thing which is new is that quite a few people, nearly all outside Norway, are seeing it and understanding it, reacting with alarm at the way a “democratic country under the rule of law” has been developing. Thank God for that.
Chris about the authorities adopting away foster children:
“This headline is framed in a positive way?”
This is the way it has been going in Britain for a number of years now, cf
We see it clearly in the reasoning of CPS “theoreticians”: They hold foster care to be much better for children than care in their families who may have various “imperfections” (these are often both trivial and some are just invented by the CPS on the basis of quack psychology). Then some of them are from time to time alarmed at the lack of happiness/success of a large majority of foster children, this lack showing through school results, behaviour, adult life. So the same CPS circles who warmly support the taking away of childrens from their biological families, say that foster care over a very long time is not stabilising. Therefore they go for adoption.
The interesting thing is that the research literature (not that of CPS people, but the independent and properly conducted one, which is quite rich) shows that there are myriad problems with adoption too! Adoptions tend to fall into two fairly distinct groups: one doing well, the other doing markedly badly. All in all adopteds do less well than the mean for the population, and often less well even than children who grow up in their own biological families who are socially and economically disadvantaged.
So much for the biological basis of a feeling of belonging together not being important!
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Reblogged this on B a r z i l a i – e n – D a n (Un Barzilai izvorât din Dan).
Moze to glupie rozwiazanie ale takie mi przyszlo do glowy.Jezeli Polakom zabiora malucha to po wyjezdzie rodzicow do Polski Norwegia musi malucha oddac do Polski.Gdyby ta kobieta miala inne obywatelstwo niz norweskie moze wyjechac z Norwegi a wtedy Norwegia musi malucha jej oddac.
Byla sprawa Amelii (Ulovlig norsk ) ,W momencie kiedy Stoltenberg chcial ja wyrzucic z Norwegii – Islandia zaoferowala jej honorowe obywatelstwo.Jako obywatelka Islandii miala prawo mieszkac w Norwegii .
Moze tej kobiecie i jej maluchowi jakies panstwo tez zaoferowaloby szybko swoje obywatelstwo ?
Nan family taught their children to pray before going to sleep. Nevertheless, the woman who is a foster parent to their daughter told the girl that it’s pointless to pray for God does not exist!
Who is telling the truth? Is truth the same for you as for me? Will ever an activist and a CPS see the same thing in a case/situation? I personally doubt it.
My local paper tells this about Nadia and Casparian: There are several Networks hiding children from the CPS – and then tell another story about the parent and the child – they have been on the run from the CPS since the 5th of May.
If Hennum has been hiding a mother and child on the run from the CPS she sure can’t be a help measure or a voice to be taken into concern in the CPS Office involved.
As i have called Margaret and her work done with this mother – it’s done from an activist network with international supporters as Chris and Mr. Prunean. It sure doesn’t help her situation and case now, but function as the New ammunition for the movement to stear up as much fear as possible and for something else that no one knows what is or should be.
http://www.bt.no/nyheter/innenriks/–Flere-nettverk-skjuler-barn-for-norsk-barnevern-3614838.html
It is not allowed to hide from Big Brother! I have a gut feeling of 1984…
Otherwise, pretty interesting statements quoted, with no evidence behind.
Is it not agianst ethical journalism?
Or just the usual double standard, if someone is whistblowing against our institution it is unethical, if some attack our enemies it is ethical whatever they do — end justifies the means as far as I see.
Knut Nygaard, how much are you paid by the system for this propaganda & psychological war?
🙂 http://ndla.no/nb/node/74155
This allegation of “a network” is something all the Norwegian mainstream media love. And although they always tend to reject Barnevernet’s victims who want to tell their stories, saying that they cannot be verified when Barnevernet refuses to comment, the same media are not too reticent about publishing accounts without verification when they seem to be in “favour” of Barnevernet and the police? It is all over the papers, starting with Dagbladet:
“Nettverk hjalp babymamma (27) å leve i skjul for barnevernet” (Network helped mother of baby (27) to live in hiding for Barnevernet)
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/06/16/nyheter/nyhet/pluss/innenriks/barnevernet/44544171/
“Da kvinnen ble fortalt at hun ville bli fratatt babyen sin, tok hun med seg den vesle gutten og forsvant. Etter en drøy måned i skjul på hemmelig sted, ble hun avslørt.” (When the woman was told that her baby would be taken from her, she took the little boy with her and disappeared. After a little over a month in hiding at a secret place, she was found out.)
As far as I have heard, the mother Nadya was at a “mothers’ home” on a voluntary basis. She left because it was intimated that Barnevernet would take the child. Leaving was perfectly legal. When Barnevernet and the police turned up at Hennum’s home, no decision was presented saying that the child was to be taken. The police assisted Barnevernet anyway. Nobody belonging to any “network” has been arrested or been named / mentioned.
There is very unlikely to be any secret “network”. If there had been, there would have been a stream of children being spirited away from Barnevernet long before now. I know that many people try to get help for their children to escape, at different points in a formal Barnevern procedure. I have never heard of anything but at most, a few close friends or relatives trying to help in the individual case. Certainly some people have said and written, especially back in the 1990s in all the Nordic countries, that “flight routes” need to be established. They have never succeeded to my knowledge, because the lazy beliefs of our populations regarding CPS matters are so different from the understanding there was e.g. in Norway during the war, when enough people understood the danger and were prepared to go into secret and underground, disciplined, illegal work for a cause they understood and accepted.
So this is the “angle” Dagbladet has seen fit to present. Not so unexpected after all, in spite of somewhat better articles from Dagbladet lately.
This article is repeated in a lot of papers, e.g. Aftenposten:
http://www.aftenposten.no/norge/-Nettverk-skjuler-barn-for-norsk-barnevern-473651b.html#xtor=RSS-3
It refers to an “interview” with somebody saying they are a network, with international “branches”, and operating on social media. Whether this boils / has boiled down to real action remains to be seen.
Doesn’t sound like mother “homes” but rather mother”prisons”….. Must be a horrible place. No wonder why mothers flee from such a place… I would warn mothers of contacting such a place for help…..
Hildi, since you read Norwegian, I recommend reading Åge Simonsen’s article from 1995:
“Barnevernets asyl”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=3789
and his handbook from 1996 / 2003:
“Håndbok for klientutvalg og barnevernsofre”
http://www.barnasrett.no/handbok.htm
They relate to “mothers’ homes”, you will find them enlightening, I think.
Thank you Marianne. I am afraid the media does not understand what is crucial here. They concentrate on the escape and finding help on FB..instead on why was the baby taken, what conditions are in this mothers homes, why wasn’t biological family involved, that the baby and mother were staying with a pediatric nurse, who can surely evaluate the care… etc.etc. I wonder, if they make an article like this, dont they have access to the file to make their own assumptions?
Pavla: “I wonder, if they make an article like this, ….”
It is several years since I sat down and faced the fact that the media are not trustworthy. They “charm” you into thinking that they understand, that they are even on your side. Then the article comes which punches you below the belt. And most Norwegians docilely believe whatever “is in the newspaper”.
I know the Norwegian press best, of course, but even the international press is quite a bit the same when it comes to CPS questions. It probably has to do with the fact that the official lies are so pervasive, big and small, on detail and on major things, that nobody takes the trouble to go after the truth meticulously.
However: Dagbladet and NTB (the national telegraph bureau) certainly punch below the belt. But I just had a phone call from Åge Simonsen, who had seen the internet headlines and had gone out and bought Dagbladet. He said that he thought still that the publicising will do good, there are interviews and things quite apart from someone talking big about a “network”. And Åge said there is a very good statement from Nadya’s lawyer (I think it is Harald Grape), about no mother being willing to give away her child to the municipality. – I am on my way out, I’ll be buying Dagbladet myself.
You, Ms. M, know exactely what the truth is about the hiding of this for the network prior unknown network. Even Your must trustworthy diciple in the Springs think he knows more about Sudmanske than we in the CPS 20 minutes away does.
You talked on the phone with activist Hennum yesterday. You have of cause the full view of how this campaigne against these parents and child help places like Sudmannske goes. You need more ammunition now that the B’s are united. Your recruitment campaigne have not ended with a much worse situation for Nadia and Casparian. I know this CPS will handle that situation very well. The CPS has a good overview of the network involved and the police likewise. So does Ms. M.
Knut, your talk is scary…
You talked on the phone with activist Hennum yesterday. You have of cause the full view of how this campaigne against these parents and child help places like Sudmannske goes. You need more ammunition now that the B’s are united. Your recruitment campaigne have not ended with a much worse situation for Nadia and Casparian. I know this CPS will handle that situation very well. The CPS has a good overview of the network involved and the police likewise. So does Ms. M.
==================================================
activist Hennum? Seriously?
This reminds me on how the socialistic propaganda talked against “the enemies of the state”. It did not matter what criticism they had, how much of insight the critics had….they were enemies of the state trying to destroy our socialist system.
That is how you sound right now Knut. Have you ever asked Margaret about the situation, how has Nadia cared for her baby? Have you asked her about why did Nadia escape and what “voluntary help” did she get and what choices did she actually have? You know once the baby is taken on emergency, the chance is very small on getting him back. You know that , right? Even though I am still waiting for the statistics of how many children return every year to their parents..
The Networks action ended this time in the home of activist Margaret. What Margaret did and observed is not interesting for the CPS. It may be interesting for the mothers lawyer, but not for the CPS as a shelter for a – in the media mother that where on the run from the CPS.
Dagbladet had spoken with the leader of this particular network who is a woman most of you know and have on your friends list on facebook.
I am sure this local CPS will handle the childs case and situation to the best for the it’s future.
I would talk not about a network, at most an alleged network so far.
There is a mother with a child, staying at the couple. The mother has at a point of time refused to get more “voluntary help” from CPS.
CPS has made an emergency care order.
These seem to be the facts so far, not too much more. But many allegations are around.
It is weird from mainstream media to come up with allegations without naming the source. Is it not against ethics for journalists?
Some comments in the media: “Barnevernet kan og må bli flinkere på mange områder, men slik undergraving som dette legger hinder på veien til et bedre barnevern.” “The CPS can and must improve in many ways, but actions like this is bumpers in the process to a better CPS” – translations done in a free CPS manner in a hurry.
“Om man ikke hadde mistro til denne typen barnevernsmotstandere fra før, så har man det ihvertfall etter å lese hvordan de opererer. De gjør ikke en gang en vurdering før de hjelper til å med å skjule barn som er havnet i barnevernets søkelys. Det er useriøst, skjødesløst, tankeløst og potensielt farlig for de involverte barna.” “If you earlier didn’t have suspecion to these anti CPS activists, so what you read here really show us how they operate. They don’t even do a consideration before they involve in hiding a child from the CPS. This is unserious, dangerous, out of your mind and are potencially doing much more harm to the child involved.”
Comments from media — without sources.
There are still reasonable doubts that there was really a network of activists, but the activists already know better that they are irresponsible…
Sounds like propaganda so far.
It all seems to be that, Jasper. It is propaganda poorly done at best.
Facebook is mentioned as being used by this “network.” I don’t think Marianne even has an account on FB.
Schodzenie do podziemia czyli ukrywanie sie przed barnevernet.To tak jak ukrywanie sie przed gestapo w czasie wojny.
Wiele rodzin obcokrajowcow przechowuje swoje mlode za granica .Ukrywaja za granica okolo 6000 mlodych przed barnevernet.
A teraz ciezarne beda wnioskowac o inna niz norweska narodowosc zeby miec gwarancje ze jak im barnevernet mlode zabierze z izby porodowek to przynajmniej jak wyjada za granice to Norwegia mlode musi im oddac.Ten kraj to jedna wielka paranoja.
Just a small posting on Forum Rescue Our Children:
“Mother leaves “mother’ home” – pursued and baby taken”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37527#p37527
Good:-)
Are there any statistics that tell how many children are taken away from mothers at those mother homes?
Hildi: “How many ?”
Not easy to say – I bet you a “kringle” (pretzel) when we meet that our authorities shut up about it. But like Aage said (cf a posting of mine above): At Bergen Mødrehjem many young mothers suddenly had their children taken, the children who were still at the mothers’ home with their mothers were upset because their playmates had been taken away, some mothers were thoroughly alarmed and tried to leave with their children and so on.
On BarnasRett’s website, the section “Nyttig” (Useful) http://barnasrett.no/nyttig.htm, you see up top “Alvheims ti bud til dem som kommer i barnevernets søkelys” (Alvheim’s 10 commandments for those targeted by Barnevernet). John Alvheim was the only politician we have had who, with honour and strength, without making silly compromises with anyone in power, completely independently, spoke out against Barnevernet. But of course Alvheim had all the solid knowledge too. He was an anaesthetics nurse by education, and had among other things been chief of the hospital (in Notodden, as far as I know). He had there been alerted to the fact that Barnevernet’s workers came in the middle of night, forced their way into the maternity wards, and took children while the mothers slept.
These “commandments” are from about 1995. And as you see, mothers’ homes were already what they are today:
5. Ta ikke imot tilbud om plass på mødrehjem. Det er ikke en hjelpeinstitusjon, men en overvåkningssentral.
(Do not accept an offer of placement at a mothers’ home. It is not an institution giving help, but a surveillance centre.)
Some of them 8 out of 10 leaves wihout their child!
I would be pretty interested in such statistics.
Also, Council of Europe is recommending collection of statistics for time until family reunification — I would like to compare such statistics among European countries. Norway seems so far to be pretty hard wing on never ever reunite after emergency care order.
A posting from Forum RVB – I take the liberty of copying it, since I am sure the writer would not object:
familien-er-samlet, 16 June 2016:
“The mother has obviously gotten help to hide by a network that operates on social media, and it is likely that she will also get further help from these.” («Mor har åpenbart fått hjelp av et nettverk som opererer på sosiale medier, til å holde seg i skjul, og det er nærliggende å tro at hun vil få videre hjelp fra disse».)
The local CPS leader says that he has information that CPS-critical networks “advice parents against receiving help-measures from the CPS, i.e. measures like centers for parents and children.” (Barnevernssjefen på 27-åringens hjemsted sier han er kjent med at barnevernskritiske nettverk «fraråder foreldre å ta imot enkelte hjelpetiltak fra barnevernstjenesten, eksempelvis tiltak som sentre for foreldre og barn».)
So how shall we conclude? The CPS in Norway is a great and sympathetic helper of children, and children “rescued” by the CPS are forever thankful for the measures they have received? These networks are all the result of conspirational thinking, and lack of information on how the CPS works? People who help a mother and baby on the run have gotten it all wrong? They are just victims of one of the biggest misunderstandings in our time?
When are we going to get real? I am not saying a blind chicken can not pick a grain. But I am saying that the chicken indeed is blind, and that the CPS on the whole does not practice nor gain results according to its purpose. Families feel it, bystanders see it, and research confirms it.
It is time for change.
The CPS in Norway is a great and sympathetic helper of children, and children “rescued” by the CPS are forever thankful for the measures they have received?
Like a girl named N. R. and a boy from Poland?
I suppose you understood that that was ironi, Jasper? familien-er-samlet’s own opinion is presented in the last para: “When are we … … It is time for change.”
Here is something from Dagbladet which also comes in ironical light. Dagbladet refers to the mothers’ home and quotes the CPS:
Mødrehjemmet varslet straks barnevernet, som 6. mai – dagen etter at mor og barn forsvant – fattet et akuttvedtak om å plassere gutten i beredskapshjem. “Barneverntjeneten vurderer at mor, som nå er på rømmen fra barneverntjeneste og politi, har et betydelig økt stressnivå som vil øke risiko for at gutten blir akutt skadelidende”, het det.
(The mothers’ home immediately reported to Barnevernet, which on 6 May – the day after mother and son disappeared – passed an acute decision of placing the boy in an interim foster home. “The assessment of the CPS is that mother, who is now on the run from the CPS and the police, has a considerably elevated stress level which will increase the risk of the boy acutely being injured / suffering”, it is stated.)
So Barnevernet thinks a stressed mother is not good for the child? I agree! So who/what has stressed her the most, to the detriment of both her and her son? No question about it: barnevernet and their people at the mothers’ home.
Their old idol Killén, though, thinks parents SHOULD be stressed on purpose by CPS personnel:
“The assessments made by the Norwegian child protection servie (CPS)”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page116/page116.html
This kind of stressing behaviour on the part of Barnevernet’s people has been experienced by many. What does the warning against stress mean in the present case of Nadya?
It either means that Barnevernet as usual do not consider their own actions to have anything but neutral or good effects for children. So stressing parents is good for testing parents, but stressed parents cannot be relied upon to care for their children. This is standard: the CPS are without the understanding that is basic in all life sciences and some other sciences as well: the “investigator” og “observer” must face the degree to which his own actions or “observations” influence on that / those being observed or investigated, and in certain circumstances refrain from such actions. Cf the section “Observation, tests and prognoses” in
Aage Simonsen: “Norwegian child protection hits immigrants hard”
Or else it is just an effect of something else which is also standard in Barnevernet: They use any kind of arguments they think will sound plausible to naïve judges, County Committee members, police and the normally unquestioning Norwegian public. Never mind if they do not follow it in practice, never mind if they have no idea that they are acting in this contradictory way, never mind if they are unable to answer when contradictions are pointed out in court. They are the do-gooders anyway, and if they cry in court because they are confronted with the way their profession practices contradictory principles of stress on mothers, it will make them all the more “credible martyrs” in the eyes of the CC / court.
I have completely understood the irony.
The child calling Rutkowski for rescuing him from foster home just puts the point on the i about children being forever thankful…
You have no influence on the considerations done about the stress-situation Mrs. M – it’s up to the CPS involved and of cause you don’t need to be a CPS to understand that being on the run increases the stress on the mother and make the child more vulnerable.
Ir’s to get rid of the risks involved that is behind the CPS’s considerations and actions – either the mother show us that she can cope with the caring of the baby or not. Being on the run and sheltered by an activist network don’t give us that information. If a mother has run away once – how many chances should she have? This is for the mothers lawyer to try to find out or alter.
I think you understand that the movement is in a crisis now – your members have interfered far over the limit and you don’t find more than you chronics that find this ongoing three decades long no influence canpaign interesting in those among us that know Norway, Norwegians and have some knowledge of the public service given by the CPS.
I don’t think this mother is an immigrant.
“The mothers’ home immediately reported to Barnevernet, which on 6 May – the day after mother and son disappeared – passed an acute decision of placing the boy in an interim foster home.”
As I understand, these mothers` homes are caring and compassionate places where parents and children stay voluntarily and get the best of help, but if they leave, they will be hunted down by police?
These days the CPS is trying hard to communicate that families have nothing to fear once they accept a stay in one of these institutions.
Incidents like these might just make it hard to get the message out.
My experience with mothers with a drug habit is that I was far more negative than the people involved on Sudmannske. It’s up to the local CPS to tell when “enough is enough”, but they wanted us not to give up and give the parent(s) a new chance after taking drugs during the stay – either on a leave or run away.
For many of those mothers with a drug habit is that the other parent – the father – don’t try as hard as the mother. When the mother understands and chose the child instead of the father much of the way out is possible in a positive context for the mother.
The parent involved are in a altering situation that the child involved give. It’s now or often .. never. The child give the alteration motivation needed … but then one day a friend with a drug habit sit next to her on the bus and then… These parents are vulnerable and their children of cause are vulnerable. They are given a chance to improve and change – some fix it – others don’t.
I am not even going to try and figure out what you are trying to say in that last comment, a lot of gibberish for sure.
Knut, my understanding is that she was off of any illegal substances like the ones that were introduced to her under BV care.
Is this true or not, Knut?
You seem to know so much about this young woman.
Yes, knut is not allowed to discuss clients, cases or any knowledge he is looking up in papers in his office at cps bergen vest! Anybody can anmelde him to the cops for this, quite a serious crime in his profession actually ☆All of us knows that, it’s enough to get you fired for this spreading of private info about a mother in crisis. I’ve lost all respect for mr. Nygaard now, pulling up dirt from his heart against not only a young mother who’s been through hell..and bv knut shows no empathy, and the way you put Marianne and other women down – tells me alot about a bitter heart who didn’t get mothers love perhaps?!. Knut, your propaganda and dirty psychological war against truth- and humanrights fighting people online cannot win: and enough is enough! Also the shit you spread: police knows..watching you..tapping your phones – you just explained a mush worse system within then I ever imagine, putting yourself as a god of the system: knows everything and everybody..online 24/7, I would reccomend a visit to the doctors and an early retirement! (Har du ingen integritet knut?) you just sunk to such a low level of sosial control..you and your only friends: police and barnefjern ,,pjuk
I think any reasonable human would come to the same conclusion that you have after being here for only a little while, Trine.
Knut mirrors an attitude in the CPS that no one is above them which is pretty near true, as the politicians have paid no attention to this cruel behavior, done to their own people, by the long reaching arms of the evil decision makers of the Barnevernet.
Oh yez, barnevernet has hunted me for 20 years..probably the same office knut has worked in for 23 years, so I’m a veteran actually 🙂
He’s been looking into my file for sure, and implies info he read…
BV is a ten headed monster built on stealing, murdering and destroying..and some of you knows very well this characterise the adversary, satan, the accuser, from the holy scriptures.
So my fight against them has therefore been spiritual, and they never got any reason to take my children by the mercy of God..for sure they tried..stormed into our family home with police twice..written thousands of pages of bullshit, accusations, negative characteristcs of me as a person and mother, my home, lies from hell, psychological rape I call it/ abuse, false accusations a.s.o.
In a book from social workers curriculum (E. Backe-Hansen “God nok omsorg.Riktige beslutninger i barnevernet” Kommuneforlaget. kap.7)I read a chapter last night – very detailed on how barnevern workers build cases to steal children from their parents & home by this formula and win in 85 % of the cases in fylkesnemda, by two specific methods I’m looking into now: by mainly arguing negative characteristcs on mothers as a winning strategy/ tactic, and this is the goal from the beginning to the end: to take children..accusing mothers, for some reason it tells the bv worker to not target the father but the mother!!! Even I am shocked!
So if knut and his brothers in arms (bv soldiers) wants to hurt Nadia anymore, he’s got to battle me first. And greater is He that is within me, than in knut!!! This spiritual war can only be won if we pray and seek God. And this is how Ruth Bodnariu got back her children..a mighty miracle, right before our eyes, that we all should learn the tactic from on how to kill Goliath ❤
This is not only informative but helpful, Trine.
I see the same battle you do, but not close up. It is a spiritual battle for sure. I am so glad that you rely on God’s Word and prayer. Goliath was easy for David. Where is David when you need him? Maybe we will have many like you with David’s spirit. The giant must fall and we need to lean heavily on the Word of God and prayer. Most in America are shocked at the BV tactics. Many are praying. We have problems of our own but this is beyond anything happening, that I’m aware of, in America. There are many believers in America. I think there are many in Norway who only need to follow the Spirit’s nudge. Thank you so much for sharing. Your comment has blessed me and I’m sure it will bless others. I’m sure there are many veterans like you there, Trine. We will try and help you to the best of our ability.
God’s blessings…:)
Amen, we need many with David’s ideology & spirit to take this goliath down ❤ Thank you, Chris, and everybody for your kind words, support, knowledge, varm hearts, help; your thoughts, prayers, putting the spotlight on things we can't see ourselves in the darkness; giving us arguments, hope, showing us great points against the unfair and wrong decisions and barnevern interventions with the help of Norway's laws and the police.
I think the authorities (barnevernet) have to be forced to its knees, case by case for the time beeing, because social workers are highly skilled and trained for a minimum of 3 years on how to buildt up a case against parents, and how to fit arguments against them into the law, which is the criteria in order to take over the care of their children.
This is actually what they learn at school, not to help!
Help-measures are not, as we already suspected, help at all, it is on the contrary; constructed so that these skilled people can produse arguments against parents in court!
(I can even share with you in which book we can read this, and which pages, on how they are trained, arguments, ideology and so on,- and that is ALARMING NEWS!)
They are trained in building up cases and arguments against parents, to convince fylkesnemda (which has supreme power in these matters) that to remove children from its home and parents is to the child's best!
They have a schema on 25 pages, (also this book I can share with you, and which pages) in which parents & children are analyzed down to every eye-movement, future predictions, and this is the jigsaw evidence in many cases, if they don't have a triumph card: like drugs/ alcohol abuse, violence or psychiatric diagnosis.
To change the system and practice will take years, unless there are a revolution, because even if we got the Government on our side, they must have a majority in the parliament (Stortinget) to make necessary changes in order to secure these families the human rights they have to be together as a family. And in Stortinget, we find all the Socialists, and they have of course the same ideology as social workers and cps staff (to remove as many children as possible) "in order to secure their welfare"..
God help us!!
It sounds like you fight a long and hard fight, Trine. You have the spirit of David only God hasn’t given you the rock. I think you have summarized the situation very succinctly.
In this case, it might be one rock or many that takes the giant down.
I would like to see the training book that you have. As there are probably so many copies out there, it may not be difficult for anyone of us to find one or at least one like it.
I have learned a lot from this statement and I thank you.
“To change the system and practice will take years, unless there are a revolution, because even if we got the Government on our side, they must have a majority in the parliament (Stortinget) to make necessary changes in order to secure these families the human rights they have to be together as a family.”
This seems to be the case but it could happen differently. God may decide to open many eyes at once making a quicker change possible. We need to ask Him for His help in order to be able to be the best help we can. God doesn’t need our help, but He wants to see that man is serious I think.
God’s blessings…
It’s not hard to find all the information you need on the internet and facebook is sometimes very informative. This particular mother is commenting too.
Trine:
a pretty small correction: the wiretap topic turned out to be a misunderstanding, here in the comments of this post.
“This particular mother is commenting too.”
Knut, do you not respect freedom of expression? Or what are you talking about? (or maybe the URL to the comment could help us understand what are you trying to say…)
Jasper and Chris: I have heard from a friend that Mr Nygaard has tried to more or less threaten Trine Ophaug on some other blogs and/or facebook too. I guess he doesn’t have any respect for people’s right to free speech, and uses the CPS tactic of calling her “particular mother” in order to get a grab on her and her child.
You should know that very many CPS victims are examined in court and county committees about what they write on the internet. It IS used against them if they do not keep quiet about their case. The CPS wants to be the only party to have control of information. It is only when someone is able, like the Bodnarius, to get a lot of information out abroad but independent of the unreliable Norwegian mainstream press, that Mr Nygaard comes up with the opposite complaint: that what is wrong with the Bodnarius was that they “did not talk” to the Norwegian press to get sympathy.
Of course, if you tell something, it can be used against you in court — this is especially about admititng any wrongdoing.
However having an opinion about an institution in general should be completely separated from a decision to made in a particular case.
If Norwegian courts eat that kind of reasoning, using opinion on Barnevernet as a weapon, the whole Norge justice system should get grilled with respect to European Court of Human Rights. The sooner the better.
Summary: if it was true what you are talking about, Marianne, it is a prety serious violation of freedom of expression and of right for fair procedure.
I would argue fo the whole procedure then should be then declared null and void and repeated from scratch due to lack of fair procedure.
So – Ms. M – you are accusing me based on rumours – if you have something to report then show us. “Paticular mother” is Nadia – “particular” used to give the Reader knowledge of whom I’m reffering to – I have as far as I know not opposed Trine and her comments. Of cause everyone has free Speech. There are some of you who seems to read comments in a wrong biased way. No, you are free to inform – but I hope the ones that do it have got the acknowledge from the parent – as Margaret writing most of everything you need to know the mothers view and background. There is a thin line between helping a parent and doing actions that makes the situation must more vulnerable. Personally I have never heard it used against a parent to share information. Yes, it should be done in a way that make the child(ren) involved not recognizable. They have a future either together With the Family or in a care situation. In the Public service there are two main Groups of People that need Public protection – that is the persons With diagnosis and the children and parent that are involved With the CPS. Yes, I was sure the B’s had been reunited in 2015 if they had talked to the press – but after I read that the police where still involved and that the parent had one lawyer each I’m not so sure that would have been wise.
Important Correction:
On Mariannes post earlier “..Jasper and Chris: I have heard from a friend that Mr Nygaard has tried to more or less threaten Trine Ophaug on some other blogs and/or facebook too. I guess he doesn’t have any respect for people’s right to free speech, and uses the CPS tactic of calling her “particular mother” in order to get a grab on her and her child..”
Mr. Knut Nygaard has NEVER threatened me or said/ written one bad word about me – to my knowledge, even though I actually kind of deserve it; writing quite ugly stuff about him and his employer barnevernet, for several months, their dangerous ideology is like satan and so on ( forgive me Knut!) and provokes him to the extreme!
He is very polite towards me always, even encouraging, and beeing VERY patient with me, giong far beyond reasonably freedom of speech agains a system who cannot defend itself against my accusations, for confidentiality reasons!
And I have never been to court against anybody eighter, not even cps ❤ (on the comments in the same post: "..You should know that very many CPS victims are examined in court and county committees about what they write on the internet. It IS used against them if they do not keep quiet about their case.."
Have a peaceful weekend everyone, especially Nadia.
And Knut, if you would help Nadia and Casper to get another chance to be together as mummy and baby – one more chance to have a future together – I will forgive everything that bv did to me for 15 years, and my personally vendetta can be put to an end..)
Trine: “Mr. Knut Nygaard has NEVER threatened me or said/ written one bad word about me – to my knowledge,”
I’m very sorry about that, Trine. I have either mistaken what was told me, or you are a different person!
Knut, you have provided evidence, that ceasing “voluntary help” is considered to be enough reason for an emergency care order in itself by (at least some) BV staff.
Crazy.
for more details, see http://www.aftenposten.no/verden/Rambo-hjalp-ung-gutt-a-flykte-fra-norsk-fosterhjem-175034b.html
Yes indeed, that was Mr Afraid-of-nothing-when-sure-of-his-moral-ground Rutkowski! I wonder if this was the case where the Russian children’s ombudsman Pavl Astakhov in the end went to Poland and accompanied the boy back across the border to Russia, to make sure that he was not kidnapped by agents of the Norwegian state (as happened to two boys in Turkey, who were smuggled out of Turkey with their Norwegian foster parents, expressly against a decision in a (very sensibly conducted) Turkish court case. This foster father was later sentenced for child pornography and sex abuse of foster children in Norway.)
Anyway, at the last demonstration in Oslo, that now on 11 June, there was, among all the posters saying different things against Barnevernet, a big poster saying: “Barnevernet! Rutkowski is after you!”, which was a sunny-humorous detail among all the tragedies. Some of us sometimes laugh hollowly / hysterically at all the absurdities of Barnevernet in action, so why not the opposite way for once.
“Even Your must trustworthy diciple in the Springs think he knows more about Sudmanske than we in the CPS 20 minutes away does.”
I do not have the knowledge that your organization has, Knut. This is why I am so shocked. They know exactly what is going on in those Mothers’ Homes as well as you do. It is tragic! Still, you try and defend such control over people’s lives? It is madness!
You have still not denied the account that Nadia gave, the account of the inhumane treatment she received in the Mothers’ Homes, that was published on my blog.
Why is that, Knut? Since you lie about everything else, why not lie about the big issue that is currently on the table? You are inconsistent again.
The reason for this inconsistency is obvious. Already, no one believes you. So, if you deny the account it will give it more credibility as you have none.
I’m glad you spelled disciple wrong. Maybe it was on purpose? You know that my reply to a correct spelling would be to correct you again. I, in my frailty and sinfulness, attempt to follow the teachings of the great emancipator, Jesus Christ. I am but a worm in your eyes, Knut.
I agree with you that I am a worm, Knut, but in a different way than you see me. I am a worm when compared the great and glorious God of the universe.
It is because of this Biblical golden rule that I am involved in this issue:
Matthew 7:12 – Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Luke 6:31 – And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Even those who aren’t Christians would agree that this “rule,” taken from the lips of the Redeemer, are good for all of humanity to follow.
I know if I was in Ms. Hennum’s or Nadia’s shoes, I would hope that someone else would share my story hoping that everyone knew about this evil system and that they should be warned and stay away from it.
Ms. Hennum and Nadia are following the golden rule.
Your new tactic is to speak of a network that you and the police are aware of. I hope it is not only a tactic. I hope such a network exists as it would be reminiscent of Harriet Tubman’s underground railroad which rescued many African Americans who were enslaved during the American Civil War. President Lincoln liked this network.
If it does exist, I have not been made aware of it. That I have not been told about it by anyone does not mean it does not exist. I hope it does. There needs to be something done to try and help women to avoid those terrible Mothers’ Homes. It is the same as enslavement except without making the women work in the cotton fields.
It seems that the newspaper article mentions such a network. I hope a thing as a newspaper can verify such a claim. They are, after all, in the business of informing the public.
I have not read the article yet. I am only going by a few comments made here. Maybe I should wait until after I have read the article to make such statements.
“You talked on the phone with activist Hennum yesterday.”
How do you know that Marianne and Margaret talked on the phone yesterday? Are you aware of the wiretap on Margaret’s phone that was mentioned by the police? It seems so. Why would Knut, only a simple CPS worker, know of such things?
Chris: “How do you know that Marianne and Margaret talked on the phone yesterday?”
Actually I said so in a posting above, Chris, that’s where he has it from. Margaret rang me and we talked. I know Margaret and her husband from about 10 years back (I think it was), and we renewed our friendship now that she became active again in connection with the Stryn demonstration. She also said yes to coming to Oslo for the 28 May demo, and she and husband joined some of us for a sea-food meal and lots of talk after the demo was over.
I see Mr Nygaard thinks he is a great detective having found out that there is “something more” in the fact that Margaret and I talked on the phone. Perhaps he fears that we are dangerous “moles” doing I don’t know what. CPS people tend to think that everybody who tries to work against them is a criminal and operates underground. The closest I have ever come to a “network” is to say to some people that some of us who work against CPS abuses are a sort of loose network who know about each other and sometimes talk and discuss. I don’t know of anybody who has been able to form a network actually getting targeted children out of the country, for instance. As I said, I rather doubt it, in the light of all the ones who are taken by the police and prosecuted (cf
Barn og familier på flukt fra barnevernet (Children and families fleeing from Barnevernet)
http://www.barnasrett.no/tema/flukt.htm
Barn og foreldre som blir straffet for opprør mot barnevernet (Children and parents who are punished for revolt against Barnevernet)
http://barnasrett.no/tema/straff_for_oppror_mot_barnevernet.htm)
As you can see just from those long lists of articles (and there are probably even more these last years), it is all very open: People make rather helpless attempts at fleeing or protesting, they are prosecuted and punished, and the papers write about it.
That groups of people ADVISING families targeted by Barnevernet to avoid mothers’ homes and other “help” from these “stressors” proceeding to take their children, are thought by Dagbladet to be a “network” of mysterious powers, sounds unbelievably unrealistic. To avoid believing in Barnevernet’s milk-and-honey suggestions is just SO secret that it is what I have been saying for 20 years myself to people who have written or rund me for advice. But of course somebody may have said so and Dagbladet may have gobbled it up.
This really sounds like thought police from 1984.
Those prosecutions should be dropped — or I hope they will end up in Strasbourg as an alleged violations of freedom of expression.
And for the mother’s case who is written to be “on the run” — freedom of movement.
My understanding is the Dagbladet put it on the front page of their online “paper,” but that is left off of their everyday paper on the newsstands. I think this indicates a few things. Most will know what I am hinting at here.
“The closest I have ever come to a ‘network’ is to say to some people that some of us who work against CPS abuses are a sort of loose network who know about each other and sometimes talk and discuss. I don’t know of anybody who has been able to form a network actually getting targeted children out of the country, for instance.”
I would think you would know about this network unless it decided to keep you out of the loop for your own protection. Still, I think you would have heard something more than you have.
There are too many unanswered questions by the BV in my opinion, Marianne. They try as hard as they can to vilify the innocent, but they won’t publicize any of their records. I know they will say they are confidential which I understand but how about some statistics? They can’t or won’t even do that.
It is a destructive organization that is hiding in plain sight.
Chris: “My understanding is the Dagbladet put it on the front page of their online “paper,” but that is left off of their everyday paper on the newsstands.”
No, Chris, it is actually on the whole of the front page, plus then on pp 4, 5, 6. But all of p 4 is actually a picture, and half of p 5 is, plus a third of p 6. All in all, there isn’t all that much text. The way they have blown up what somebody on facebook seems to have said, seems out of proportion. That may be because they did not want to bring out anything much of Nadya’s or the Hennums’ information? Or it is simply “old Dagbladet” going scandal-sheet.
“There isn’t that much text.”
I have read the article and there are so many major parts left out of the story. I am not impressed with the reporter who seems to have been let in on the story very early on. There are few things that are correct, but overall, I’m not a fan of the article.
It seems that you are not one either, Marianne.
Someone else seemed to tell me that this story was only in the online version that this publisher puts out.
Were they wrong?
Chris: “I would think you would know about this network unless it decided to keep you out of the loop for your own protection.”
More likely because I always have refused to be told anything secret. There have been people who have wanted to “tell you something, but you must keep it confidential”. I have always refused, because I can neither use it nor do anything about it, and I certainly wouldn’t keep quiet about it if I thought I had better not, for whatever reason.
It is like I am having a “secret de Polichinelle”, a secret which everybody may know. It is the best way of making sure I can write “what I like” and be relatively efficient within that narrow path I have chosen because I think that is where I can possibly be of some help: bringing out information. Info which nobody much wants to hear, but at least I am helping in “laying out a trail” of information so that not every family or helper has to start from scratch and spend a lot of time fumbling around not knowing where to go for insight.
If I were brand new to this topic, I would want you to be one of those who first helped me to see the truth, Marianne.
You weren’t the first, but I am glad that I have gotten to meet you if only online.
You can begin anywhere and the information exposes the truth of the matter. Yes, it is a voice that speaks against a strong and long wind. But it holds up because it is truth.
Many others are now learning from those who have learned from you.
It is similar to the people of Norway who are into several generations of BV kids, kids who have been robbed of the biological connection between mother and child.
It’s no wonder the nation falters. It’s no wonder that its rating has been downgraded.
I’m still working on the question, and I don’t quite have it yet though I am getting close. It is this:
How can a nation that is 3/4ths “Evangelical” allow such a system to continue.
Chris: “How can a nation that is 3/4ths “Evangelical” allow such a system to continue.”
I’ll attempt an answer, but I am sure there will be many disagreements and I am not at all sure either:
Christian faith has not been seriously tested in our nation for a long time, not in situations of conflicts where it is of vital importance. That gives time and scope for squabbling and disagreements between denominations and congregations about the right understanding of the scripture and passing judgment on one another, and so on. Not unknown in the USA either, I am sure.
People who have been blessed are perhaps people like (German) Hildegunt Sassenhaus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiltgunt_Zassenhaus
Both her parents were anti-Nazi, her mother was able to help Jews, secretly, but for a while the parents did not dare tell her and her young brother, because it was dangerous. When they finally told them, brother and sister were determined to join their parents: do their best to help in a situation where all ordinary disagreements were unimportant.
In an interview on tv (20 or 30 years ago) she told of how, near the end of the war, she was going to this prison camp where she was an interpreter for Norwegian prisoners. By then the prison authorities had more than a suspicion of her, and they directed that at the assembly of prisoners she was not to tell them anything (in Norwegian or Danish, which she was allowed to speak to them) about the allied advances into Germany and not let them read anything from the Bible in Norwegian. When she looked into the faces of the prisoners, she knew that she could not obey, even though it meant that she would be arrested. So she said to them, the prison guards highly suspicious of what she was saying in Norwegian: “Hold out a little longer. The allies are not far away. It will not be long now.” And then she instructed one of them to read: The Lord is my Shepherd ..
She was allowed to leave afterwards, but knew she would be reported to the Gestapo. Her only chance was that things were in such a chaos and everybody had so much to do that maybe . . . Actually, some part of the prison buildings were bombed directly after, so the prison personnel had no time to bother about her.
I had not heard this account, Marianne, but I am so glad that I have now!
She was one of many Germans, with similar stories, of whom we will never know. Yet, Germany gets a real spanking morally when it comes to WWII. And they should!!!
One must remember that all Germans did not agree with Nazi policies and many of them paid dearly for their stand for righteousness. I’m not an expert on WWII but I’ve read accounts of many “religious” leaders caving to Nazi pressure and I’ve read stories like this one. This is a case where a brave young Christian woman faced personal harm because of evil laws.
I must ask rhetorically: “Why the Bible? Why not pick on the Koran or the Constitution of the United States or some other document?”
Of course, the Muslim situation wasn’t as it is now where the small minority make the majority look bad at times morally. Still, there is no gospel message in the Koran.
The Bible gives light not only for living in this world, but in the next. It is a book filled with hope. Hope is certainly something that the Nazis didn’t want those in the camps to have.
“…she was not to tell them anything (in Norwegian or Danish, which she was allowed to speak to them) about the allied advances into Germany and not let them read anything from the Bible in Norwegian.”
You wrote this also, Marianne, and I agree entirely.
“Christian faith has not been seriously tested in our nation for a long time, not in situations of conflicts where it is of vital importance. That gives time and scope for squabbling and disagreements between denominations and congregations about the right understanding of the scripture and passing judgment on one another, and so on. Not unknown in the USA either, I am sure.”
I think you are on to something very important, Marianne.
I see laws that were based on morality (that were and are based on scripture in many cases) being changed before my eyes in my own country. I woke up one day recently and the definition of marriage had been changed. I don’t think I’ll ever get over it because I believe in what the Bible says. It isn’t a book of fairy tales in my eyes. It is truth to me.
The denominational squabbles, along with outright disregard for God’s Word, steer us away from focusing on very simple truth that is clearly given in the Bible.
“For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis 2:24
This same scripture is quoted by Jesus in two different gospels and by the apostle Paul. If one wants to know more about the moral issue of adultery, one need only look at Matthew 19 where Jesus discusses it in very easy to understand terms.
There is a tendency in humankind, because of a sinful nature (again Biblical) to wander away from Godly things when there is no resistance to one’s beliefs. If we never have to stand up for what we believe, we tend to relax and in many cases forget to rely on what we believe and sometimes even forget what we believe.
There has never been a time in my country when Bible believing Christians could relax. Since I can remember anything, there has been a fight to remove Christian morality from the public square in one form or another. I know it was going on when I was 5 and I’m sure before that.
One thing I also know about my country is that taking children from their mothers is something that is not tolerated no matter how far we have fallen. It is not tolerated at any age and it is not tolerated from any entity.
To take a baby from a crib, when its mother is not around but has provided good supervision, is kidnapping in my country.
It is punishable by law and it is not given a slap on the wrist. It is a serious offense.
There are cases where babies have been kidnapped by criminals but not by any organization that is supposed to be protecting children. Maybe there is a case I’m not aware of or several.
However, in Norway this appears to be a “normal” event.
I am only aware of 1 case where our D.H.S. or C.P.S. did something sort of similar as the Barnevernet did in this case with the assistance of the police.
The one case I’m aware of caused quite a stir and all seven children are back with their parents. People were so upset they traveled from far states to make their complaint known. I would not have known of it myself if a journalist hadn’t discussed it with me.
Are there bad people and bad decisions made in our C.P.S.? Of course. I am not aware of any situation like this one with Nadia and Caspian, however. I am aware of a case where I do think the local D.H.S. made a bad decision between father and mother but the state certainly never had any intention of removing the child from both parents so that it (a government funded thing) could raise the child.
I worked in this arena for 5 years and there were disputes and disagreements between family members and lawyers about the welfare of children. In almost every case the local officials didn’t want to place the child in government care. It is the last alternative in America, at least the section where I live. I think most Americans would agree with this philosophy. Taking a child from one or both parents is a last resort when all else fails.
In Norway, the C.P.S. makes it at the first opportunity in many cases. The child is taken, without question, sometimes when the parent is not present and sometimes when he/she/they are. Several cases have been documented on this blog. We know of many other cases.
Certain media and political sources seem pleased at the increase of children removed from biological parents.
Is America better than Norway? On this subject, I would have to admit “yes” and by far.
I am not happy about it, I can assure you.
Sorry, wrong spelling of her name: Zassenhaus.
Thank you, Marianne, and thank you again for sharing the above story with me. Accounts like this always make me smile. 🙂
Dagbladet had spoken with this particular networks leader – so the media tells us and most of you know who this lady is and have on your facebook friends list. Yeah, maybe this movement are a bit to loose – you don’t agree to form something like an alternative to the CPS – you know that the moment you do so the thoughts will differ so much that the movements seperates to so small groups that they all will fade into the invisable opinion world.
Without new ammunition and that fast this movement is back on the same low level as they where before the B case.
Mr. Prunean mention those abroad spreading the “religion of fear” – some of them saying us that they are Christians, but they know nothing about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole.
The comment from the so-called network leader… is so short that by 99.9% chance the so-called network leader did not know that will appear in the newspaper as such.
Yeah, the activist diciple – now worm – is awake in Springs. You agree that you don’t know nothing about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole, but you find Ms. M trustworthy of reasons that are of no interest for me. For me Ms.M is an opinionmaker who like every possibility to some ammunition for her nearly three decades fight against the public service done by the CPS. Like many others she indentifies with the grown up and their situation – and not ever being a mother herself she has little knowledge of the vulnerabilty of a child as little as Casparian. In this case we have heard nothing about a father, but I find men on the mothers facebook.
We don’t take severe risks with small children in Norway. This goes for the ones that the movement need as propaganda. Yeah, I understand that the there is a shift of focus now over to free story telling about the help measure given so the child born can be secured and helped if a stay at f.i. Sudmannske child and family center work out or don’t work out. Of cause everyone involved hope the parent(s) involved take the guidance, are stabile and aware of the childs needs and communication, the baby goes before everything else and everything works out fine. Nothing is better than parent(s) leaving with the knowledge that they will fix the parenting. Yeah, there are some that don’t manage to convince the people involved that the child will be safe and loved 24/7 – we all know that parent(s) in general are not perfect – this is done with those with a high risk although they have been given knowledge, guidance and instructions. Such a sitiuation goes to the CC to decide. More about Sudmannske on the link below
https://www.bufdir.no/Barnevernsinstitusjoner/Bergen_barn__og_familiesenter/
The evil you see in this system have been given to you from your trustworthy master. You believe everything she opinion about and that is of cause your choice. Of cause there is tension in the situation where parent(s) must both take in knowledge and guidance – and show that they can take it in at give the child involved a daily care without severe risks. Ii’ quite sure the CPS in your backyard do the same to parent(s) they have got information about – information given by other public services – either at home or at a center. The risk is much lower for a child given at a center, but I understand the experience of staying in a center situation for the parent(s) are individual.
I don’t work in the media, Chris – this information was given on the radio and in the papers all over Norway. Here in Bergen the paper uses plural – networks. The media talked with the leader for the network involved in this action – a woman many of you have as a friend on facebook.
Yeah, I hope the police tapped the conversation between Ms. M and Margaret – then they would have known that they spoke more of the harm done to this activist movement than of the situation for the child. Ms. M is worried now – we in Norway are informed about the lunatics and the lunacy coming from the pentacostal B “revival” – now we have selfappointed “rescuers” doing more harm to the mother and her case than she would have had if stayed and proven the task as a mother capable.
We don’t take risks with small children in Norway. The tapping is just mentioned in the free facebook world – if done – it’s a police matter – likewise – it’s a police matter where the border for private or organized interference in public services goes and what the consequences should be.
I know “such things” because I read it on this blog in a comment done by Ms. M.
” I hope the police tapped the conversation ”
Knut, that is an intrusion on civil liberty. Surely we still have liberty, even in places like Norway?
Knut,
Marianne Haslev Skanland is in particular interesting in the cases where she personally knows witnesses. This case is such a case. So, someone who has talked with a witness.
Otherwise we have sources you never react on.
What about the concern letter initiated by Gro Hillestad Thune, Thea Totland, Nina Witoszek, Elvis Nwosu and Einar C. Salvesen?
What about the motion at Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe, mentioning an alarmingly high number of emergency care orders per year compared to the population of Norway?
What about Separation Anxiety Disorders?
You always get silent if someone mentions one or some of these…
No, Marianne Haslev Skanland is not the only source. Don’t think if you could discredit her (so far I have seen pretty weak attempts) the whole topic went away.
And in the particular case, as she has talked with a witness, she is likely to have valuable and credible information.
Mr Nygaard: “Yeah, I hope the police tapped the conversation between Ms. M and Margaret – then they would have known that they spoke more of the harm done to this activist movement than of the situation for the child. Ms. M is worried now – we in Norway are informed about the lunatics and the lunacy coming from the pentacostal B “revival” ”
WHAT ?
My guess is that of cause you knew the situation before Mr. Prunean posted this. You know more than me of what the situation is really about, but you don’t and should not for that case tell us all – I know most of it and understand it from my other cases done with the help given to the child from Sudmannske.
You say this in another comment on this post: “However: Dagbladet and NTB (the national telegraph bureau) certainly punch below the belt. But I just had a phone call from Åge Simonsen, who had seen the internet headlines and had gone out and bought Dagbladet. He said that he thought still that the publicising will do good, there are interviews and things quite apart from someone talking big about a “network”. From my window this give me an impression of that the focus is on the movement and if this press article do any harm to your chronics intentions home and abroad.
Yes, I am awake, Knut, but your answers are monotonous at best.
You start with another double negative which you use quite well to your advantage.
Then you criticize Marianne again. If what she writes is so wrong than why are you so concerned about it?
Then you make this statement:
“not ever being a mother herself she has little knowledge of the vulnerabilty of a child as little as Casparian.”
I have never been a mother myself, Knut, but I am outraged at how this mother, Nadia, has been treated. Her drug use is used against her. She was not involved in drugs until she was taken in by the BV.
“Yeah, I hope the police tapped the conversation between Ms. M and Margaret..”
Is that legal in Norway? Maybe a good question would be, is it ethical? Has this mother done so much harm as to warrant wire tapping?
Both you and Marianne have cleared up for me how you knew about the phone calls. I thank you both for clearing that question up for me. I admit, I haven’t read the entire threads on the last 2 threads in one sitting.
Most of the rest of this is just like what I have responded to. It is typical “Knut speak.” I will, however, comment on one more thing. You stated:
“We don’t take risks with small children in Norway.”
What could possibly more risky for small children than removing them, in large numbers, from their mothers’ arms?
Isn’t this a blog about … the truth? I just try to tell you all some truth about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole.
Have a good day at work, Chris. I’m sure you find the truth .. some day.
“Isn’t this a blog about … the truth?”
It is, Knut. That’s why many come here.
Am I missing the point? Has this mother or the woman that helped the little family committed a crime?
If they have, I think they should be prosecuted and punished.
On the other hand, if they have not done anything wrong, could the CPS and the police be the core of the problem here?
Regrettably, Norwegian journalists are not interested in asking any of the interesting questions concerning these cases.
“Has this mother or the woman that helped the little family committed a crime? ”
What kind of crime? Refusing “voluntary help” from Barnevernet any more???
“Regrettably, Norwegian journalists are not interested in asking any of the interesting questions concerning these cases.”
Definitely agreed.
Interestingly there are no more commenting options on most Norwegian online newspapers on Barnevernet…
Could it be some powerful people are afraid of open debate who are powerful enough to make a pressure on the press?
My observation is that this has something to do With the particular newspaper. In the Christian newspaper Dagen there is a comment possibility to everything 24/7 – and my Guess – no one is moderator. Others – like Dagbladet – I think have a priority question – how must shall we invest in time and People on commenting – they know the need for a moderator.
I will check Dagen… I have seen several articles with comments at other newspapers before, and interestingly about this allegation on a network, where the article itself seems to provide evidence against the allegation, there is no comment possibility anywhere.
and… I had some pretty strange experience at some other newspapers.
Sometimes even the debate partners acknowledged there was no reason to remove comments of persons they were discussing the topic…
“Yes, it should be done in a way that make the child(ren) involved not recognizable.”
The parent is a legal guardian of the child, whenever the parent makes the decision it, you first need to assume the parent did it on the behalf of the child for the child’s best interest. It is legally just like the child would have disclosed the information on himself.
I think it is up to the parent’s deliberation to decide if the child involved is to be not recognzable or recognizable, and this only changes after a binding decision (if necessary, by Appeals Court) taking away legal guardianship.
Exactly Jasper, I was thinking the same. The parents are the one who can decide, unless they are stripped of parental rights. Until then its their choice and not CPS, what they will make public or not and it should not be used against them in and outside the court. At this moment it is used against the parents.
This is a statement from Norwegian embassy in Prague:
With reference to particular claims which have been presented in Czech media recently, the Embassy would like to stress that the parents can freely comment on the case in the media. They do not in any way risk being prosecuted or punished for this in Norway.
http://www.noramb.cz/Norsk/ambassaden/Statement-on-the-case-of-two-Czech-children-placed-in-foster-care-in-Norway-/#.V2Ots6LcKLA
This information is misleading. And I don’t believe that this is what the Embassy naively thinks, they only express what Norwegian central authorities want to present.
I believe it is deliberately misleading. Please cf the section “Publicising the facts and development of the case” here:
“The child protection case in Norway about the Czech children of Eva Michaláková”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page45/page289/page289.html
I agree with Jasper and Pavla that it should definitely be up to the parents to decide. But especially Eva Michaláková has experienced, more gravely than many, the cruel way it is used by the authorities.
Yes Marianne, its quite misleading. Maybe she meant that the parents will not be charged for publishing their story. I, and many others, though would assume, that publishing the story does not influence the case in a bad way.
In the Czech case there were so many attempts to clarify why the children were not yet returned and why is the contact with the family non existent. Czech parliament has written a letter with many good questions, the minister of foreign affairs has exchanged about 3 diplomatic notes, Tomas Zdechovsky (our MEP) has written a letter to Solveig Horne, our president has written to the Norwegian king and many other attempts. This all has resulted in one meeting between Budfir and the International protection of children from Czechia. This one meeting did not bring much results, but the Czech representative was promised that the children will not be adopted, because the family is interested. They have also agreed that they should get Czech lessons and that for eventual return its necessary to increase the visitation. None of that has happened., maybe the Czech lessons have started now, but one of the children was sent to adoption few months later. I think if it was the other way round and it would regard norwegian children in Czechia, things would move much faster to solve the situation.
Kilka uwag o systemie :
1 Barnevernet na 16 kwietnia wyznaczylo spotkania rodzicow z porwanymi dziecmi zeby uniemozliwic im protesty.To bylo podle.
2 Gazety nie informuja o protestach .Utrzymuje sie Norwegow w niewiedzy.
Cenzura pracuje tu wysmienicie.
3 Komentarze sa szybko usuwane.Wiele osob nie odwazy sie napisac ,zeby nie stracic dziecka.
4 Jakie inne cele ma barnevernet skoro ma tak silne poparcie rzadu.?
Moim zdaniem kontrole ilosci osob , ktore chca sie tu osiedlic.Porywa sie im dzieci i pali domy.To zatrzymuje chec osiedlenia sie u innych,
Norwegow jest malo i gdyby wiele osob sie tu osiedlilo , norwegowie byliby mniejszosci i stracili by wladze.
I would say the goal could be to isolate their victims so they were helpless against abuse of authority.
Which could be formulated less sharply, based on stubborn thinking we do everything well, and we do not make mistakes (or at least do not admit them). The end result is the same.
As the concern letter in Norwegian formulated:
“En naiv tro hos mange på at barnevernet ivaretar alle barn på en god måte og at kontrollapparatet representerer det nødvendige korrektiv, bidrar til å forsterke avmakten hos de barn og familier som opplever det motsatte.”
I alt dode 702barnevern barn i periode 1990 – 2001 ikke en ansvarlig er fengslet eller straffet for dette.
W okresie 1990 – 2001 zmarlo 702 dzieci przebywajacych pod opieka bv.
Nikt odpowiedzialny za te dzieci nie byl skazany i nie byl wieziony.
Frykt for at mor vil kidnappe barnet
Strach , ze matka porwie dziecko.( to odczuwa barnevernet).
Po udanych porwaniach ( odbiciu )dzieci z rak barnevernet , dzieci zostaja teraz wywozone bardzo daleko od domu.Bv nie zyczy sobie publikowania ich zdjec ,poniewaz ofiara mogla by byc zidentyfikowana i biologiczni rodzice mogli by sie dowiedziec gdzie dziecko zostalo umieszczone.A to moze dac szanse rodzicom na odbicie z rak bv swojego malucha.
Jesli dziecko przebywa pod ,, opieka ,, bv rodzice moga sie z nim spotkac najczesciej 2 razy w roku, musza rozmawiac z dzieckiem po norwesku ( zeby bv wiedzialo o czym sie rozmawia ) .BV to taka ,, troskliwa ,, instytucja, ze sie nie przejmuje stratami ( tzn smiertelnymi ofiarami ).
Nawet wtedy gdy 3 latka zasztyletowal 13 latek w rodzinie zastepczej.
A ta et nyfodt barn ifra sin mor rett etter fodselen.
Odebrac nowo urodzone dziecko matce zaraz po porodzie.
To spotkalo miedzy innymi wiele dzieci cyganskich i rumunskich.Odebrano im 50 % dzieci ,wszystkie nowonarodzone.Ciekawa jestem jaki procent tych dzieci przezylo .Moim zdaniem okolo 50 %.Obym sie mylila.
Gabriela says that 702 children in care of Barnevernet died between 1990 and 2001 and nobody was held responsible for those children, no one was convicted or imprisoned.
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Dziekuje za tlumaczenie Oktawian.Pozdrawiam i zycze zwyciestwa w tej walce.Jak najszybszego zwyciestwa.
Hmmm….. nothing much happening here, but … here is some interesting news while we wait on the next post about the one and only CPS in the world that is of interest for the movement to strear up as much wrong knowledge and thoughts about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole
Yes,Knut, stick to the subject please (evil against families) ; to help you back on track, read this:
“..and will betray one another [handing over believers to their persecutors] and will hate one another. Many false prophets will appear and mislead many.
Because lawlessness is increased, the love of most people will grow cold. But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved.
This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come..”
Matthew 24:12-14 AMP
Here is another good verse to keep a balance on this subject:
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”
Jesus says this in Matthew 24:36 after he quotes the verses that Trine has quoted above.
For those who take the chapter chronologically it is possible that we are in the days mentioned in verse 8 which could mean that we are in the days Trine quotes.
Many in WWII thought we were in the same days.
It a very interesting and powerful chapter in scripture. There are birth pangs in verse 8, hate in verse 10, and the great Tribulation starts in verse 21. There is a rapture type event in verse 40.
I read this chapter quite often and have no fear. If one reads the next chapter (Matthew 25), Jesus continues to discuss last days events using parables.
Then someone interested in what the Bible has to say may go all the way to Revelation Chapter 20 and read to the end of 22. It is very comforting.
Of course, it is God’s Word in between these two scriptures and it should be read and believed by all. Until Jesus comes again, we are to be alert as Jesus said but we must also keep Matthew 24:36 in mind to stay balanced.
BTW…I don’t know if a chronological view is correct or not. I know it will happen but I’m not sure of the order when I look at the entire scriptures and compare them with this awesome chapter.
Knut, your attempts to distract the discussion by videos are pretty transparent. Are you out of arguments?
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“Of cause everyone has free Speech.”
I’m assuming you meant the word “course” instead of “cause,” Knut. There is a difference.
Where is Margaret Hennum’s right to freedom of speech?
The American government protects all kinds of speech, like allowing speech about men using women’s bathrooms and vice/versa, that I have a hard time listening to. The American government allows all kinds of demonstrations and criticism of its government. It is a right in a democracy. All cities in America that I’m aware of have an area where first amendment rights may be expressed. A permit is usually needed if the protester is aware that there will be over a certain amount of people. I’ve filled one of those out with the U.S. National Park Service. Anyone in America can do the same. It was a very easy process.
Is Margaret Hennum not allowed to express disapproval with an agency in Norway that has been given very powerful access to Norwegian families?
I hope so or your democracy is in shambles, sir.
Reblogged this on Slavomir Almajan's Blog.
Expressing disapproval with an agency in Norway leads to wire tapping and punishment of babies. Many people have told me lately, that they are scared of speaking about the atrocities they are aware of caused by Barnevernet! We are not only about to develop av society of fear, we have this society already.
Reblogged this on Pentru minte şi suflet.
I have found an interesting document in English.
May I ask native Norwegian commenters, especially Knut and Marianne to comment?
Click to access Kvalitets-+og+strukturreform+i+barnevernet+-+forslag+til+endringer+i+barnevernloven.pdf
sorry, I am a bit tired… the document is in Norwegian, of course.
It is the Association of Psychologists responding to questions about structural reform in Barnevernet (transfer from state to municipalities) and talking about changes in the coming revised Barnevern legislation.
The psychologists agree with the Ministry that early interference will prevent compensate for care failure and therefore care transfers, so Barnevernet must be strengthened, but they say that there are so many complex problems children have that wide cooperation across several disciplines is needed, among them much more psychological expertise. No criticism of what psychologists are doing, of course.
It is the kind of thing we have heard for years and years. It will lead to more of the same that is practiced already.
Oh, I see.
Some weeks/months ago I read a suggestion by Gro Hillestad Thune that decision on emergency care order at first instance should be moved up to County Board, and the first legal remedy should be already at District Court.
I wonder if this suggestion and the letter (municipalities are not yet ready) had anything in common.
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I lost my solely child in Norway too – with the “help” of the (Dr.-Mengele-like) ober 25 years completely inhuman acting “authorities” of Austria, Norway and Germany.
Lutz Bürger
Conductor of opera and concert