US attorney Peter Costea has access to some of the Bodnariu case documents and wrote in detail about the case.
Delight in Truth was pleaseantly surprised to find how much support the Bodnariu family has in their local community. Despite this support, Barnevernet still confiscated the kids! Read and be shocked!
“The written [court] ruling, however, also noted strong dissents.
First was the school master. She refused to cooperate with Barnevernet to indict the parents. The ruling noted that „the headmaster … doesn’t think the parents are doing something to physically harm children …” The headmaster was also „opposed to taking the children away when she felt this was not in their best interest. The headmaster was also [one of the girls’] teacher for four years and she lives in the family’s neighborhood. She also knows the family in private.”
To the Bodnariu family’s defense also came the local government, identified in court records as the County Committee. It recommended the children not be separated from their parents, but, instead, counseling be provided, stressing that the parents are sufficiently „resourceful” to care for the children. The County Committee proposed that „the best interests of children are to go back to their home.” Norway’s Child Welfare Act, the Committee pointed out, imposed a high threshold for the children to be taken away from their parents. The proof required a showing that the children had been „significantly harmed” by the actions of the parents. Such evidence was absent, the Committee urged, concluding that „the parents are fully capable to properly exercise their care for the children,” and that „the situation can be correct[ed] by adopting measures at home.”
More backing for the Bodnarius came from the Naustdal Municipality. Its attorney portrayed the family as one where „family values have a central role in their lives,” adding that „this is a great thing to see by whom the children have been cared for.”
Nevertheless, Barnevernet remained unpersuaded, concluding that this is „a serious case of violence against 4 defenceless (sic!) children,” a case about „systematic violence.” Hence, Barnevernet reasoned, placing the children back with their parents „will be a new violation.” It also expressed concern about the massive adverse online publicity the case had already received by November 30, and in a rather bizarre uttering, it stated on the record a fear „that the children may be kidnapped.”
Despite voices of reason in the case, Barnevernet will not listen.
It seems like they never listen to reason.
I have done many considerations to this case and can’t understand why this family don’t speak to Norwegian media – let the TV2 visit them at home and so gets an Norwegian opinion to work for them. I have seen them on Rumenian tv and it’s obvious that they don’t like questions about why the police and the CPS interferred as they did. Should Norwegian TV2 do this the parents have to understand that they must answer the question they don’t like in a truthful way. So far the information given from abroad and some f.b. sites tells us about parental violence and children that don’t get yes on all their wishes a.s.o. After my consideration – elements that are easy to handle at home in cooperation with the CPS. So – why don’t the parents lawyers do this easy work during their complaints and negotioations? That if this case don’t have hidden elements that is spoken of in the conclusion for the acute intervention. And why do the lawyers accept that this case hearing is to find place first in the month of May? I have seen the parents on Romenian TV, but I don’t understand the language. However I do see parents that seldom visit a CPS office.
Don’t give up – and fear not – my advice: Speak to the Norwegian media – the CPS see and hear you anyhow.
If the parents go to the media with a case that seems credible it will take the Norwegian opinion if all have been said and nothing is hidden under the carpet – because neither you nor I has seen the conclusion that followed the acute intervension – maybe this lawyer in Houston have, but that has no or little reel impact other that to give you information – all information? – that gives further support.
If the parents shall talk to Norwegian media they must dare to talk openly and in detail about why the police and CPS did what they did. They must let the media get the same insight in the documents as this lawyer so the media knows the parents can be trusted and give them a heartbreaking true story.
This fear for the CPS must be thrown out together with all this nonsens from chronic Norwegian CPS-haters and self-appointed “specialists”. Let this case live it’s own life – this case is no food for ammunition to activists who think they have ?? to change or bring down the CPS – they don’t have an inch of impact – neither have you – but the parents have – silence is not always golden – give the support and understanding to the case that wil be fruitful for this particular family.
I agree with Marianne. The Bodnarius would not get fair treatment in the Norwegian media because the media is BV friendly.
Just look at how the media covered the recent anti BV protest in Oslo. The media made it look like there were just a few people there, even the photos were taken from such angles to underestimate the participants. Mr Holta confirmed that there were 300 there to protest at the time of the march.
I followed other stories in the Norwegian media as well, and the overwhelming theme is that the Eastern Europeans “just don’t understand our system…” “they need more education about our system…” etc.. instead of focusing on the abuse by BV.
Even with children dying in the BV system, with the Nan and Bodnariu children having bruises and burns on them at visitation, the media is unwilling to uncover these crimes!
How can the family trust the Norwegian media when the media is in bed with BV???
Two other details you people should know about:
1) Mr Nygaard recommends the Bodnarius to tell the truth and to let Norwegian media see the case documents so that they will know that the Bodnarius are not lying.
Well, there are hundreds of cases in which the families attacked by Barnevernet have done exactly that: They beg the press to take up their case. Without being asked, they offer the press free access to all case documents. This includes both the documents which they themselves present in the County Committee and in Court, and all the documents produced by Barnevernet. The press is generally uninterested; all they want is to make a short article about what the family “says” and what Barnevernet “says”, and if Barnevernet will not say anything about the case, claiming confidentiality, the press still holds that it is impossible for them to be sure!
2) The recommendation to “cooperate” with Barnevernet in a friendly manner is also one we hear regularly. It means submitting to slave discipline, in the hope that Barnevernet will then be satisfied with them. Lots of victims have related how Barnevernet wears them down until they are exhausted.
So if the Bodnarius disagree over anything about the way Barnevernet has treated their children and themselves, the idea is that they should nevertheless gratefully accept that Barnevernet knows best.
And the alternative – loose their children? I can understand that in the context that you have had no children, but as a parent I know I will go through hell if it’s the best for our children.
Costea writes this: “On November 30, 2015 the local Barnevernet council of the Naustdal Municipality, called County Commission for Child Protection and Social Affairs, issued its decision on the matter which was at some point reduced to writing. It merits closer examination. It did not present a rationale for Barnevernet’s decision to seize the children, but for rejecting the parents’ petition to return them. In so framing the issues, Barnevernet stacked the cards against the parents from the outset.
The decision recited many of the facts already outlined above. The only source for the findings of fact upon which the opinion was based was the girls. No sworn affidavits from neighbors, teachers, church or community members, extended family members, or medical personnel were obtained. All evidence to the contrary was either ignored, watered down, or turned around and used against the parents. For instance, Barnevernet chastised the parents for claiming that the physical spanking of the children was light and turned this characterization against them, stating that the „mother’s disposition to trivialize the violence and the reasons she presented such as having too many children can be very stressful worries us.” Ruth was further maligned, Barnevernet pointing out that though she is Norwegian and knows that the corporal punishment of children is forbidden in Norway, she failed to protect the children. The Council derided the „parenting style” of the parents. It based its concern, in part, on a medical examination which concluded that „the youngest boy is flattened emotionally,” which meant that the three-month old baby could not remain in the parents’ custody either. The Council added: „we consider that it is not safe for baby to be with this mother and father. (emphasis added) Faced with this extreme irrationality, the parents pleaded, in vain, for the return of their children. In a desperate move to rescue the integrity of the family, they pledged not to physically discipline their children in the future. In their own words: „it will not happen again.” Their pleas fell on deaf ears.”
The parents and their lawyers complain, negoziate and I hope give the parents good advices of how to act – to work the way that gives hope for reuniting and take distance to acting that might ruin it.
I found the description Costea gives of what led up to the acute intervention more severe than I thought from what told on the one-eyed f..b. sites. This case is in my opionion dependant of parents working in the best way to get the family reunited. If they do so there is a hope that a set of help measures will give CPS a possilblity to trust that it’s no danger in reuniting the children with their parents. I think guidance of the parents is a must – they must both find a way to cope with their daily life with the children without the use of parental violence – they must also get some guidance in how raising up children that might have other values and views than themselves. I think the CPS will have a strong supervision of the family that will gradually be less and less – hopefully – as the CPS find the parents working the right direction. The mother has said that she too can use violence because she has things to do and the children behave in a way she don’t accept. I think the measure “Family council” shall be in the action plan. Here the CPS ask the parents to invite the persons they think have a heart for them in a way that they are willing to do an active part on the behalf of some in the family. This can be family, relatives, neighbours, churchmembers, parents the children visit, teachers a.s.o. The council is managed of a coordinator who is not CPS – the CPS is only a part of the meeting at the beginning – says what the situation and problem is – then leave – and the coordinator work out an action plan for the coming 6 months – f.i. the two girls are with XX one weekend monthly – the boys are with XX on their winter holiday – the mother gets help in the house two Fridays a month a.s.o. When finished the coordinator calls up CPS and the action plan will be gone through and handed over. If nothing come to the ear as old or new problem the action plan will be evaluated in 5 months and if agreed to take a new meeting this will find place in the 6. month.
Knut, this case is not built on real violence. Lets get on the same page about this.
The family spanked the kids by padding their bottom. There was no abuse. NO ABUSE.
Can we agree?
Your comment about family supervision sounds like the type of action needed for sexual abuse, physical abuse and drug use! NONE OF THOSE HAPPENED IN THE BODNARIU FAMILY.
And we know the details. We had access to the documents even thou BV hides behind confidentiality.
Knut, this case is an abuse by BV. I am trying to make you see that. Maybe you can talk to your bosses and inform them.
This is a Christian family who loves their children, never abused them, they love God and their family!
This is the last family BV should go after!
Actually I don’t think Knut will agree that this is a ridiculous definition of violence. To be fair, I think if presented with the actual facts of the case, a large percentage of Norwegians (perhaps even Knut) would in fact disagree with the outcome, but they will hide behind the cover of ‘law’. i.e. in their heart of hearts they would know this outcome is wrong, as I think Knut probably does, but will salve their consciences with the idea that it’s the law, it’s not their fault, it’s not the government’s fault, it’s just the blind eye of ‘justice’ working out in an unpleasant way. To prove this, one only needs to consider how many people we have already heard in interviews saying something like, ‘yes this is terrible, but they committed violence against children and no matter how wrong this decision seems, we don’t allow that’.
To any reasonable person, who hasn’t been indoctrinated into this thinking, this is immediately absurd. I’m an adult man. If I commit an act of VIOLENCE against someone, especially a child less than half my size, it’s going to leave a mark-on me or on them. If the physical discipline of a child leaves no injury, lasting or otherwise, it is ludicrous to declare it violence. From what I’ve read Norwegians are quite proud to allow their children to play sports such as soccer (football for Europeans). Do Norwegians prosecute children for striking other children, during sports? The physical ‘violence’ in sports is far, far greater, than the types of things children, such as the Bodnariu children, are being seized for. Surely adults in Norway must be prosecuted for acts of ‘violence’ every time someone is hurt in a sporting event? Yes, I know there will be the argument that there is an inherent understanding of this ‘violence’ in sports, a sort of ‘contract’ between players, etc. Sure, and there is an inherent understanding in MOST of the civilized world that if children disobey parents who love them and are looking out for their best interests that discipline may follow, most especially to prevent the child from making harmful decisions such as putting their hand in a fire. Yes, and the inherent family contract is far stronger and should be far less easily nullified than an implied contract between sports participants.
I do realize that Norway claims to have other forms of accepted discipline, as Knut suggests, but I have yet to hear any Norwegian government official (Knut included) list any. Even ignoring the bruises and burns Delight in Truth has noted, much of the Romanian community saw the example of the 7 year old taken by Barnevernet telling her parents about her two year old sibling being forced to stand in a corner with his arms up as punishment. Perhaps this ‘non-violent’ form of discipline is considered acceptable, even preferable, to Norwegian thinking, but most of us in the ‘civilized’ world would see this as something done to torture POW’s, not something done to correct children we love. Of course, we know that a foster parent’s paid job is to manage children not love them.
I suppose there will be a response like, ‘a 7 year old child under duress can’t be trusted when reporting on a Barnevernet foster family’. Because of course we all know that the only time a 7 year old under duress can be trusted is when speaking about his or her natural family that he or she has been violently isolated from….sure.
I think there may be some value in further understanding and considering the likely positions and thought processes of Knut and those who agree with him. Delight in Truth and many others have clearly talked about the lack of due process in the case. The behavior of the Norwegian CPS in taking children from their parents, splitting them up, refusing to allow communication and many other atrocious actions are despicable violations of the rights of both the parents and the children. I don’t believe any reasonable person can conclude otherwise. However, when a court proceeding does finally take place, if the ruling is against the Bodnariu family (note I say ‘family’ not the parents), as almost all rulings are against the family in Norway, then the response from the supporters of this system, such as Knut, will be to effectively say, ‘see, the process may have had some flaws, but since the end result was to take the children away, it all works out correctly in the end, and no real harm was done.’ If such a ruling occurs, those of us supporting the Bodnariu family will of course point out the ridiculousness of Norwegian courts. That all expert witnesses are biased and have financial interest in winning these cases, that testimony taken under duress from children who have been kidnapped is inherently unreliable, and since Barnevernet has been shown repeatedly to be incompetent, dishonest and in violation of Norway’s own laws, they should be looked upon with the highest suspicion by the courts and their assessments considered highly questionable at best rather than the reverse in which they are considered reliable experts who made some mistakes.
The average Norwegian who actually trusts their government and the CPS system will probably tend to accept the reasoning of the courts. However, they have made a number of logical flaws in coming to that conclusion. Anyone who debates in court or on blogs, knows that defining the question is one of, if not the, most important part of the process. When Barnevernet takes children without any due process, they have already immorally altered the question, the process, and thus the entire system. Instead of there being a question now as to if should children be with their natural family or not, the question is now shifted to has Barnevernet made a family destroying mistake. For Barnevernet to be ruled AGAINST, would mean they will have literally inflicted MONTHS of psychological torture on parents and children. It would mean they have wrongly taken hundreds of thousands of euros in government money, and that’s just in paying foster parents. It would mean that they have exercised immense authority in violation of basic human rights, without oversight, control, or regret. These are the not the battle lines that should be drawn when dealing with families and the lives of children. There should NEVER be ANY incentive for a government to take children, and then fight to keep them for protection of its reputation, revenue, or for fear of reprisal in civil court. The ONLY consideration that should be evaluated is if there is some imminent threat to the child’s actual SAFETY by being with their natural family. Note, I did NOT say what is BEST for the child. ‘Best’ for the child is nothing more than an arbitrary, and almost always secular, standard that will vary with culture, values, and time, and for some reason almost NEVER includes as a parameter where the child is most loved, where the people are who would give their lives and everything they have for that child.
If the ruling favors the Bodnariu’s, rest assured that people like Knut will not admit to months of torture, misuse of government money or human rights violations, they will instead blame the Bodnariu’s for being accused in the first place. They will have no other choice if they wish to defend themselves, but defending themselves should never have been the question.
The truth about the Oslo demo is that there was only around a 100 people involved – the leaders and the speeches don’t appeal to common Norwegians – and VG – one of the largest newspapers told their hundreds of thousands of readers of the lunacy – yes, they used that word – the lunacy that you are drilled with from a couple of hundred chronic CPS haters and some self-proclaimed “spezialists”.
If you watch the f.b. sites they for the most part share stories written in some Norwegian newspaper – there is little or nothing they produce themselves because they don’t know how the CPS works or nothing about the law system in Norway. The world, Norway and the CPS has it’s own life – and you are not a part of it. The only thing you can to is to support the families in their struggle, but you are no legal part – that is only the parents/lawyers and the CPS. Holta f.i. is a tradegy to bring to a speech podium. Yeah – you need education and our department must do their homework – translate everything they do and say to english and other languages. The Norwegian newspaper know what they are doing – they know what the CPS and the law says and that you over-react because you are misled and informed with knowledge that give you fear – and for many of you your own CPS work in much the same way. One child have died most likely from an epileptic attack – the authorities do their job and investigate the circumstances. The media produces stories that have some kind of reel impact – they are no longer a tool for lunacy.
Are you a person or a tape repeating again and again the same things? Is this your job with BV? Are you well paid in order to make of all protesters “tools for lunacy”?
Let BV explain in the media, if they can, how they did their work in situations arised 20 years ago and confront their testimonies with the ones of the families involved… names can be changed to protect persons, but at least one could get an idea of the way CPS works, either with real human beings with feelings and a capacity to improve, or with mere statistics, principles applied mechanically, and general ideas.
Knut, your statement from VG is the reason why I do not think Bodnariu would get a fair story in the media.
Media called the protest “lunacy.” Journalism is supposed to be OBJECTIVE NOT SUBJECTIVE. they must report the actual event and let the reader make up their mind!
By the way, the FB group posted a video of the Oslo march and you can easily count more than 100 people. I believe Holta when he said it was 300 or close to that number. Why wont the media be fair in their coverage?
THIS IS WHY BODNARIU MUST AVOID THEM and stick to social media.
Have you seen this documentary?
I hope you won’t say that you don’t trust anybody except Barnevernet for that would mean that Barnevernet is your god, which I hope it’s not the case since you introduced yourself as a Christian.
Since you returned to work (at Barnevernet), from now on every time when you will be going “child snatching” with your co-workers please remember Ecclesiastes 5:8 NKJV: “If you see the oppression of the poor, and the violent perversion of justice and righteousness in a province, do not marvel at the matter; for high official watches over high official, and higher officials are over them” .
And more accurate in King James Version: “If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they”.
I do not quite understand this. It is no surprise that Barnevernet wants to keep the children, but something about the procedure seems not quite clear in the article.
It is the County Committe that decides in the first round. The County Committee ruled back in November, I think it was, that Barnevernet’s emergency action of taking the children was to be upheld. If they had then stated, or have in a later round (of whether the children are to be formally transferred to Barnevernet’s jurisdiction) stated all that this article says, it sounds like they have decided that the children are to go back home. Barnevernet would then either have to bring the children home, or they could do two things: ask for a staying order to keep the children interim, and take the case to the regular court system, the first instance of which is the district court.
One of Barnevernet’s standard way of answering if anybody criticises them, is exactly to say, “We in Barnevernet have no power to take children. It is the County Committee that does that.” This is quite right; although Barnevernet may take children in an emergency decision without asking first, they have to bring the emergency order, too, to the County Committee for confirmation, plus bring the custody case to the County Committee later.
Mr Nygaard’s suggestion of speaking to Norwegian media is deceptive and should NOT be followed. Norwegian mainstream media are not trustworthy on CPS matters. Since Mr Nygaard works for Barnevernet, he knows perfectly well that Barnevernet without exception blame parents in the County Committee and in Court if they have made their case public. Our system-subservient judges go along with this, as do most lawyers. They have gullibly swallowed the CPS doctrine that it is so terrible for the children to see that their parents are fighting for them with all their might. – It’s rubbish.
So in most cases I would have suggested that the whole family should make their case completely and energetically public anyway, preferably on the internet, and also make the best of it in mainstream media. It actually helps the children, against the indoctrination which Barnevernet and foster parents pepper children with. I spoke with Marius Bodnariu very early on and said so and I do not think their lawyer is right at all about being “discrete”. If people publish, they are blamed for it, but if they do not, then nobody knows about the case, most people believe that “they must be hiding something very reprehensible”, and Barnevernet has even greater power – and you can be sure Barnevernet will use it! Full isolation is their aim.
But in the Bodnariu case, the publicity which the family has achieved abroad, is the most fortunate thing that could happen. So then just skip the self-serving Norwegian mainstream media and stick to what they are doing. Look at the cowardly way the mainstream media has suppressed the case or gone along with Barnevernet hitherto, when they have had every possibility of going into the case properly and give solid reports. The case is an outrage and nothing is gained at this point by giving the Norwegian press and the docile part of the Norwegian public the power of making up a sort of “comrade court of opinion” and betray the family even further.
I’ve seen your comments all over the net defending an institution that secures you an easy-peasy (useless) job. Norwegian media is constantly avoiding to ask Barnevernet the two question Delight in truth exposed on this blog and I inserted them in my article:
Nygaard, I have a question. You are filling up websites also with these “pedagogical” comments teaching everybody how the system works. It is a mystery for us how you get your work for the CPS done – except if they have given you time off to fight their fight in the social media. No offense!
Well stated, Octavian.
I have seen Marianne’s work both here and elsewhere. She is a credible source so I believe what she has written here.
On the other hand, I have seen Knut’s comments only here and have found many of them misleading and biased.
I have seen several of your comments as well, Octavian. You also seem to be credible.
I am aware of the hours many DHS workers put in here in the U.S., If Knut’s comments are on several websites as frequently as they are here, the mystery you have mentioned is real.
I hope to help you to an understanding in the period when I have a sick leave because of problems with my back, but I’m working again so I’m more out of this activity for the future. Hope you find truth and gain real knowledge.
I have come here for knowledge on the subject and I have gotten that from everyone here except you, Knut. I sincerely hope the majority of Norwegians don’t think like you.
I’m glad your back is better but now that you are working again, how is it that you can spend so much time defending your employer?
I reread your comment, Knut. By:
“I’m working again so I’m more out of this activity for the future,” does that mean you are leaving this conversation?
Ok, Octavian — you watch the Norwegian CPS through the eyes of chronic anti-CPS self-proclaimed specialists….. all the way from Arizona.
She has asked two questions: 1) If there are really as many very serious cases as they claim, why then does Barnevernet spend huge resources on cases which, when you look into them, turn out to be unnecessary interference and harassment and destruction of children in families which are normal and good?
Here are some language problems — Skanland seems to put as many negative words in a simple question: We in the municipal do our services according to the child care law. I case handling starts with the arrival of a concern. A concern from an official institution or person is written and accurate. Common members of the society often use the phone — some know their right to be anonymous — f.i. if you are a grandmother and are worries about the care in your daughers house — she don’t won’t to loose her relation because she has given her concern to the CPS.
When we receive a concern we do not know if it contains bird or fish. We must handle them egual according to our law. A few concerns are found not to be us as the right address — a few are found hostile — the rest is given to handlers after considerations done by the leader of that department.
The law say that we shall investigate those concerns where it’s reason to think there might be conditions that may give basis for measures.
It’s the investigation that give the answer to the bird or fish question.
The same with the concerns considered as acute — you don’t know more than it’s green light to handle it in this way — it’s acute for you — the child — the parents ande everybody else.
2) What kind of «treatment» does Barnevernet have for the children in whose families they do intervene and how does that «treatment» work out?
In your next sentence you talk about fostercare, so I suppose you are not interested in the over 40000 cases where we have ended up with measures given to the child/parents at home. The around 9000 children that are not home are for the most part in fostercare where there has of cause been a change in relations — the fosterparents as the most important for the daily care and the parents/family for the more lonitudinell history — if they themselves have extreme negative feelings towards them. Adoption is rare in the CPS.
Knut, I don’t think I needed this kindergarden explanation again. As I stated very clearly is that when it comes to Barnevernet there is a dicrepancy between theory and practice. You are giving me examples in which CPS acted the proper way for there were real abuses or other cases in which they return the children to the families. There is no excuse for them to do the same thing to Bodnariu, Nan and Radulescu families. A doctor who treated professionally a great number of patients will still be convicted if the findings of an investigation reveal the fact that that doctor mistreated a smaller number of patients, correct? We are not accusing Barnevernet that it mistreted all the cases it handled. Besides the atrocities, the communists did some good jobs in certain situations. Let me ask you a question: If the children of Bodnariu family would be returned to the family, do you see any chances that they would be sexually abused, brutally raped or killed by the parents? I don’t think so! Nevertheless, you CANNOT exclude that all the above may happen to them in the Barnevernet’ trusted foster homes. The recent history of child abuse in foster homes may be recurring.
If you click on the link I inserted in my article, there is a study that may help you understand my point:
you say people who are anti-CPS do not have the facts straight, but are “fed” by anti-CPS activists. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you, the CPS workers in the first place, and Norwegians in general, are the brain-washed ones? How can a human being watch those videos with the children being snatched from their homes and not become enraged and revolt against such a system? A child who has been abused will not cling to their abuser the way these children do. The cry of the children being taken away, the fear and terror towards the CPS workers should just tell you that what’s going on there is not normal and not right. And if you watch all this and say CPS is right something’s terribly wrong with you! Just give the children back, and revise your entire system. Some of the people there are mislead, others are just plain EVIL. They should be held accountable for destroying families and torturing innocent children and parents! It’s a terrible shame that such things are happening in a so called democratic country. Shame on Norway!
Of cause it’s emotional and should never have happened – but a facebook site – a video does not tell the story behind or the whole story. Every parent in this situation know the whole story – the full picture behind. If what the CPS had done is not in acceptance with the child care law the parent and their lawyer must attack the written verdict and tell the court that this isn’t true and find evidence and witnesses to build up their case.
Facebook after all doors are closed I suppose is a form for therapy – and I think it’s for many a good one – you get reactions – people feel sorry for you and you may even get new friends.
The hardest cases for us in the CPS to witness is the parent who tries and does it’s best and ends up with a conclusion that it’s not good enough for the children – no alcohol or drugs, no violence or abuse – just the management of the daily life with children. It’s sad to watch a family without relatives, network, a church or a mosque, friends that we could have invited to a Family Council where we togehter might had found someone who could have helped enough to cope with the lacks.
Reblogged this on ANA TATAR ANDRAS.
Here it is from the horse’s mouth, quoted from Knut Nygaard (above) who seems to claim to be a Barnevernet employee:
“The hardest cases for us in the CPS to witness is the parent who tries and does it’s best and ends up with a conclusion that it’s not good enough for the children – no alcohol or drugs, no violence or abuse – just the management of the daily life with children.”
In other words there are cases where parents try their best, they aren’t violent nor are they abusive, they don’t use drugs or alcohol. Despite this Barnevernet (and this is an inside source speaking) decides that this is “not good enough for the children” and takes their children away. Yes you read that right, Barnevernet decides that by whatever standard they purport to use that a normal parent is “not good enough” in the “management of the daily life with children” and for that your children can be taken away.
Forget about the natural bonds of love and affection between a child and its parents, forget about the effect that tearing the family apart will have on the children, forget about the much higher risk of the children experiencing physical or sexual abuse in foster care. Barnevernet knows best.
The natural bonds of love and affection between child and parents have been defined away by the CPS and their almighty psychologists. True, it really has, explicitly! Instead they talk about “attachment”, which they define as solely a product of being together (except when child and biological parents are together, even for years – then there is no attachment if the parents happen to be just not good enough). And they talk much about the need for social workers to learn to show the children love:
“Starting to babble about social workers’ love”
Every time someone, e.g here on DiT, says “How on earth can Norway have such a system?”, this is interpreted by Mr Nygaard as a humble request that he “explain” what the wonderful system is like.
Oh yes, he is undoubtedly a CPS worker. He is apparently extremely active on all sorts of websites in Norway and has been for quite some time. And he says exactly what they always say. So … now I have perhaps “explained” Mr Nygaard to you more than you need! Please don’t think me supercilious!
Here is a link to the Norwegian child welfare act. Those cases I refer to in my comment is rooted in § 4-12a and sometimes with a link to d:
A care order may be issued
(a) if there are serious deficiencies in the daily care received by the child, or serious deficiencies in terms of the personal contact and security needed by a child of his or her age and development,
(b) if the parents fail to ensure that a child who is ill, disabled or in special need of assistance receives the treatment and training required,
(c) if the child is mistreated or subjected to other serious abuses at home, or
(d) if it is highly probable that the child’s health or development may be seriously harmed because the parents are unable to take adequate responsibility for the child.
Then you can check the wording in the legislation for that matter in your own country.
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Re what Delight in Truth said about the Oslo demonstration:
I was actually there and took part both in the procession from Parliament down to the central station and back, and in the program of speeches etc in front of Parliament.
I counted about 125 people in the procession, then later I saw the video and saw some other groups there. I think they were about 150. In addition, some people had stayed behind by Parliament. More people arrived by and by when the speeches were going on, and some people also left after a while, since it was quite a long session. I think between 200 and 300 attended all in all.
I quite agree it would be a good thing to get thousands to take part, but the reaction of contemptuous triumph over the victims who DO attend these demonstrations, because they are not very many, surely shows an uncivilised lack of insight? Is it reasonable to humble them? There are actually several thousand victims, both children and their bereft families. Many of them hide away because society around them are brutal about their fate. Some would like to attend but cannot bear the sniggering from people who do not understand their tragedy. I remember one family who told me that “We just can’t bear it any more, not to be able to go there together with our children. I know it is quite different but it feels like the 17 of May when we cannot see our children and wave to them in the children’s procession. One year our daughter was allowed to visit us back home for some hours on the 17th; she cried desperately all the time because her brother was not allowed to come.” (The 17 May is our national day, the day celebrating our constitution, and in Norway it is preeminently a day for children, not for military parades. Some of Barnevernet’s victims can’t bear to go out on that day, to listen to all the celebratory speeches about our freedom and our success.)
How sad, Marianne.
How could one possibly expect anyone to be patriotic when the government is guilty of the abuses articulated in this blog?
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We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in a society, a life free of violence and fear. Violence is palpable apprehension. Committed by trustees in close relationships with children. In what really should have been a safe environment.
And they who spanking or using any other form of corporal punishment in child rearing, sentenced to long prison sentences. In line with those sexually abusing children, whether it is in close relations or strangers.
And those who advocate or accept that the use of corporal punishment in child rearing, or those who sexually abusing children. They must receive God’s hardest punishment, eternal damnation and one unidirectional ticket to hell.
Congrats on the brilliant comment, sir. So, what kind of long prison sentence would you give for spanking? Like Breivik’s sentence who killed 77 people?
Spanking is the same as child abuse and sexual abuse? You are seriously misguided for making such comparisons
The Barnevenet is the real abuser who must be punished!
You are seriously misguided. And I hope gods punishment for you is swift and hard.
MY VIEWS ON THE MATTER
First I must say that the case has created a sensation around the world, demonstrations and mass writings and media coverage abroad. But too little in this country. Those who know me, know that I am not for today’s child, as it works today. And I am for a strengthening of children’s legal rights.
The crux is that family Bodnariu living in Naustdal in western Norway, north of Bergen. Seeing that the child engages and robbed the couple Marius and Ruth Bodnariu their five children and placed them in foster homes. Marius and Ruth Bodnariu are Pentecostals. They argue that children are taken from them because of religion persecution. A number of international media, which sometimes major Christian newspapers as Charisma, Christian Today, WND and The Christian Post has described the case as Norwegian Christian judicial persecution anno 2015.
Religious persecution is persecution of people because of religion, that the persecution is either justified religion. They persecuted religion or persecutors perception thereof, or both.
Freedom of religion in Norway:
In Norway we have freedom of religion, which means that you can have what religion you want, without being persecuted by the state in relation to your religion. Meanwhile, those who reside in Norway, submit to Norwegian legislation. This means that regardless of what religion you have, you must obey, comply, comply with Norwegian laws and regulations.
In Norwegian press (VG) printed the following:
The couple is activated by were charged with domestic violence right before Christmas. In an interview on Romanian television, the couple admitted that they have given the children pat on the butt and pulled them in your ears – even though they knew that such upbringing methods are illegal in Norway. But the couple, and their supporters, are stuck in that it is the fear of religion (religious indoctrination of children) which was the reason they were deprived children.
Here admits they thus an offense, and much probably then Penal Code § 282 and perhaps also § 283, without that I should take a position on it. There is something Norwegian law must consider. What is clear is that the refs and rice to punish children for better behavior has been banned in Norway since 1972.
In the law we find when following paragraphs:
§ 282. Abuse in intimate relationships. Imprisonment for up to six (6) years imposed on anyone who by threats, duress, detention, violence or other violations, serious or repeated abuses
a) its current or former spouse or cohabitant,
b) his or current or former spouse or cohabitant relative in direct line of descent,
c) his relative in straight ascending line,
d) someone in their household, or
e) someone in their care.
§ 283. Gross domestic abuse
Coarse domestic abuse is punishable by imprisonment up to 15 years. In deciding whether the maltreatment is serious, particular emphasis is placed on whether it has had to follow significant injury or death, and by the way
a) its duration,
b) if it is carried out in a particularly painful way, or have had to follow significant pain, or
c) if it is committed against a defenseless person.
But although there have been major law changes to protect children against abuse, so shaken we still court cases where children are exposed to violence and abuse in the home. Sweden was a pioneer country when authorities in 1979 commanded all forms of physical and psychological violence against children. Ten years after the United Nations launched the CRC, as had already Finland and Norway followed Sweden’s example by using laws to protect children from abuse at home.
When I then look what extent this matter has received internationally, and it has presented in the media, so I set myself a few bemused question. How real is actually meant by religion persecution, they claim. And what about the confession / acknowledgment they should have given about the use of corporal punishment, as when VG writes in its spread, the consequences should really get.
So I know the system and Norway (born and raised), but with a critical approach to government and community regulations. And with my critical gaze at CPS, how in the whole not functioning satisfactorily, although they also have done much good at times. So I have in relation to what has emerged in the media about Bodnariu case, concluded that the matter is from the child welfare side, and other authorities handled very badly.
This with religion persecution, fall actually on its own absurdity. If family Bodnariu had really been persecuted because of religion, so would the all Pentecostals also been persecuted. And when would the all other Pentecostal friends’ children are being taken and placed in foster care, in the same way as the children Bodnariu.
So do we have the confession Bodnariu comes with an interview, about the use of corporal punishment of children. This is terribly sad, and should be turned down hard if it is proved so that a court can issue a correct ruling on this.
It is also a poor choice of CPS to split up the kids at several different foster homes. It would perhaps have been better kept together as siblings, although when perhaps might have happened by placing everyone in a child welfare institution.
What I’ve determined, will probably be disliked by many, but in my estimation the best for kids. For with my background, I am and I remain of the opinion that a game (whatever) is a blow too much. And it is known that a ram is suspicion or accused of something, always want to reduce their role or participation in it the person is accused or suspected.
So when the precondition that they have not actually been persecuted religion, and that their own admission of corporal punishment of children is reel. I have found that it actually was the right of the child welfare intervention, but that the child could have intervened with other instruments. Although the preferred instruments also would have caused a temporary care order of the children.
I’m of the perception that the children would have been placed together in a foster home or institution, while allegations of corporal punishment of children were investigated, and their parents if necessary. Judged for this. Depending on the conviction would then have been initiated, or as a requirement of conviction, that parents should participate in parenting education, while the CE. Term expired the imposed punishment. So when this was clarified, it would have initiated follow-up measures / reinforced supervision of the family, the parents regained custody of their children. Should they then under the reinforced supervision / monitoring of the family made clear that it is still used corporal punishment of children, it would involve the loss of custody of all time, and a new criminal case against the parents.
UPDATING (06.04.2016) Translate with Google translate:
NRK announced today that the family has regained his youngest son.
But the case is not yet fully investigated, and the parents are still charged with rearing violence.
I personally am still worried about the children. And sitting still with the unanswered question, whether the parents really have understood that it is not legal to use corporal punishment or reprimand the child upbringing here in Norway.
What I am worried about is that the child who is now the court has decided to be returned to their parents, may experience abuse (being subjected to corporal punishment or reprimand) in one form or another. When it has not obtained any place in the media that their parents have been using to treat the impotence they have to deal with, all the time that they have used corporal punishment or reprimand above children.
I hope they have learned and that they go in themselves and realize that all forms of corporal punishment or reprimand the kids are not lovelig, not to mention can be very harmful to children.
Do you working for barnevernet, Rikard S. Larsen?
So you are not concerned about the fact that the Bodnariu children have been brutally and forcefully taken away from their family and actually from their whole environment and placed with total strangers, with a complete different worldview than their parents, with people who oppose their Christian faith and who live together as unmarried in families with many other foster children, putting the Bodnariu children into gross danger of getting sexually abused?
No. I don`t work for the CPS. I work for childrens right to a life with out enny abuse, even spanking. The abuse or spanking may not give fysical marks, but what about the physological marks and scars for life. And the support your talking about is just a smal group. And then again: The Norwegian Pentecostal movement will not sign the papers to Bodnariu pair, or support ther story in any way. So say the Press contact Andreas Hegertun in the Norwegian Pentecostal movement. Buth then again USA has not under writen the UN child rights agrement, and the US people should look at ther own CPS problems in ther own country, before trying to hack down on other countryes CPS and law`s conserning this. Så look into the great USA, and see all the problems there, solve them first.
“but what about the physological marks and scars for life.” Rikard S. Larsen
Have you thought about the psycological marks and scars barnevernet force upon a child that is brutally taken away from their parents, in a fashion very similar to kidnapping, and placed with total strangers where they are cut off all contact with everything they ever knew and held dear?
Have you heard about children who miss their parents so much and try to escape back to their parents or even don`t want to live any more?
Hildi thank you for speaking common sense. The trauma from separation is 10 times worse than Mild corporal punishment. Unfortunately many people don’t understand that. They disregard what is good in Bodnariu family and see only that. To me these people who want to punish the Bodnariu fam like that are complete fools. The kids will have a trauma for life due to the separation. The parents wanted to improve. They have two psychologists on their side. Einar Salvesen who is sure it was horrible mistake to remove the kids. He studied the file..and another CPS appointed psychologist who made a positive evaluation of the parents. The baby was returned, does not it give a hint to the people?
Excellent points, Hildi and Pavla,
Common sense is being removed from many the laws that once made countries great.
You made this comment in reference to Delight, Rik:
“You are seriously misguided. And I hope gods punishment for you is swift and hard.”
Congratulations. You have made the worst statement that I have seen on this blog thus far.
The worst statement is all the comments from idiots on this page, who has lost ther way. And is only thinking of them self, insted of the children. When and if you truly will manage to think for the children instead of your self, then you can talk. Because there are still more of us who realy think of the child, then there ever vil be og people like you, who it seems like to beat and misstreat a child.
“he worst statement is all the comments from idiots on this page, who has lost ther way. And is only thinking of them self, insted of the children. When and if you truly will manage to think for the children instead of your self, then you can talk. Because there are still more of us who realy think of the child, then there ever vil be og people like you, who it seems like to beat and misstreat a child.”
First, your opening statement is conflicting, Rik. One statement can’t be “all of the comments.”
Second, if I am included in your group of “idiots,” I am pleased.
Third, I am so happy that I am not your son.
I am sorry, but there is miles of difference between mild corporal punishment as slap and real abuse of the children (as some other genius said, the kids were beaten black and blue, such a crap).
Imagine, you are driving a car. You will exceed the speed limit. Will you have your car taken immediately, will you have your driving license taken away forever? Probably not, it depends on the severity of the “crime”
In the Bodnariu case the punishment does not fit the crime.
You have asked, did someone think about the children? Yes all the time. CPS is not thinking about the children, they were busy isolating them for months. How on earth did someone think its good for the girls to be isolated for 3 months and separated from their siblings?
And I am saying it for the last time that trauma that these children have now is way bigger than anything that they encountered at home. I am very sure of that.
The Bodnariu family is a very close family, the way the sisters and brother and the parents defend the family of Marius is incredible. Its obvious that they love each other very much. Enough said..I am sure the same can be said for the family of Ruth.
From that reason, the only logical solution is for these children to be returned where they belong. The parents will not discipline their children anymore. They have said it many times. They said it immediately, but nobody has listened to them. I hope common sense will win in the end.
So you think, Rikard, that when barnevernet come in some black cars with a bunch of policemen, force them away from their family, friends (including their best friends), relatives, school, all the things they hold dear, yes absolutely everything they hold dear and force them into families they never asked for, that they are not left with a trauma for life time that is far far far worse than having had very mild spanking a seldom time????????
The world is getting crazy!!!!!! We are really living in dark times!!!!
As long as they have broken oure law, the system will react. Not all that the CPS do is bad. But I surgest you look at the problems with US CPS, before you look at the CPS in other countrys. And if you had realy known me, you would get a shock of what my life under the CPS has been. With physical and mental abuse of me. And yes, love is important. Kids will allways love there parents, nomather what happens. But when parents use physical punishment, then the kids should be protected. So, Hildi, look at your own way and your country CPS, what do they do good, and then what they do bad, then try like me to convince them to change their way, bay changing law and regulations, and not like so many has done by attacing sepperate/induvidual persons that work in the CPS. For that personal attacks only hurt the things and the case you may want to change. Have a good day/night.
It is barnevernet that break the law! They take babies and children away from their parents before they do any investigations. They go against their own rules that removal of a child is the last resort. They violate human rights!
I do not come from the USA but am a Norwegian /Swiss double citizen and live in Switzerland. The CPS here are not like in Norway. Mild spanking is legal. Children are taken away from their parents as a last resort. If there are problems, a social worker will visit the family and if necessary stay in the family for about a week. Only after a thorough investigation will they evaluate to take further steps.They will have looked for different ways of helping the family before they, in seldom cases, take the drastic step to remove the children.
Last Saturday I was demonstrating in front of the United Nations in Geneva. I am willing to go there again if necessary!
Ok. so look at the CPS in Switzerland, then. And if there are something wrong they do (they have most likely also done something wrong, tru the time), and work for change in that. But as you say Mild spanking is legal in Switzerland. Buth here in Norway it is bracking the law. And you can`t use Switzerland law in Norway, and Norwegian law in Switzerland. Buth then again, the people who spank etc. kids, they breake humanrights to, don`t they? And then who is the weekest part, and inn nead of protection of there humanrights, the kids who have no way of actualy defend them self, or the grown up/adult who can and has the means to defend them self? For me the strugle with the CPS from parents, is more for the rights of the adults/grown upps, than for the weekest part, the child. Buth we will never agree on this. I agree with you on one point that the Children should ony be taken away from their parents as a last resort, when it comes to problems like educations problems, finansial problems etc. even when parents have mental/physological challenges. Most of this can be solved whit help to the whole famely in there home. But as son as it comes to physical abuse or grose mental neglect etc. then the child must be protected as the weekest part. I will say that a pearson that feel the need to hit a child in any way, have a big mental problem. My girl is now 22, and I have newer given her any spanking etc. In stead I have talk to her, on her level according to age, and ekspleind with words in a karm way. And she has grown up to be a responcible person. I have used the same way in my dealings with other kids to, and behold even the wildest one has calmed down and realiced the problem. At most I have delt with 3 – 4 childs at once. So way is it nessesary for some adults/grown ups to give children spanking etc. And why pase on bad habbits or custumes to the child, just so they can bring it to there childs? But if you Hildi realy wants to make changes to the bether for the child, then we need a world where violence inn any form is not necessary when it comes to child oppbringing. Maybe you should reed my blogg (it is in Norwegian, but you can use google to translate, maybe. Start here; violence – http://www.samfunnsbloggen.com/425400553
Then maybe read about my life, only 9 cap: http://www.samfunnsbloggen.com/425083582
Some of my wievs on Norwegian CPS, Economy 1 : http://www.samfunnsbloggen.com/425055250
The CPS challange 2: http://www.samfunnsbloggen.com/425055283
Under this, you will se how many political and ministers, departments etc. I have contacted to change the Norwegian CPS, I started with tis in 2011, but I startet my humanitarian work all ready in 1989, wit talks to the Priminester Gro H. Brundtland. And this spring I had a dialog with the Justice Minister, Leder of the Healt kommite in the Stortinget, and many morre.
And after reading that, give me an answer.
In every generation parents have been using mild spanking in disciplining their children. I used it, even though it was seldom, with my kids when they were little. This is still common all over the world today.
I believe there is a long way between mild spanking in a decent way (that doesn`t leave any physical marks) and that which can be called violence. There are many other ways a child can be harmed. If a parent, for instance belittles a child or doesn`t give it enough attention, it can hurt a child very much.
The Bodnariu family used to do many wonderful activities together which I am sure they miss terribly now. They parents gave their children lots of attention and love. And they showed them the way to Jesus who loves them soooo much!
Here Einar Salvesen about the Bodnariu and on what is wrong with BV. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umqZGSLCO7w
Deflection…a typical tactic by a propagandist. He is fighting against the CPS but he “tells” Delight, “I hope gods punishment for you is swift and hard,” after all Delight has done to try and change the criminal events happening in Norway.
Please bring back Knut. Rik doesn’t seem to be giving us the education that Knut did.
These children loved their parents, Rikard. And the parents love them over everything in this world!!! Noone, absolutely noone can love them more than they do! I haven`t heard barnevernet talk about love one single time!!!! Knut, who is a barnevernet worker has NEVER talked about love!!!!!! Barnevernet is totally uninterested in true love!
Hmmm,,,, Hilde. I just read an article where a mother is accused for threatening a leader of a CPS: “I shall kill you and your children.” If proved guilty she may get a sentence upwards to maximum three years. Something tells me that you will defend this mother too.
Knut, I have a question for you. How do you view Breivik’s sentence? Appropriate?
Sounds of crickets…
Knut Nygaard, nytter ikke. Deres hjerne er lukket for det faktum at selv et klaps, klask etc. kan gi et mer alvorlig psykisk traume, enn at barnet blir tatt hånd om for en tid mens saken undersøkes. Jeg er ikke for dagens barnevern, da jeg mener at de må mer hjelp til inn direkte i familier som har problemer, og på den måten unngå omsorgs overtakelse. Men der det er snakk om vold, seksuelt misbruk etc. der må barna beskyttes, men også at foreldre skal straffes hardt. Men du kan lese mer om meg, mitt liv og det jeg da mener om BV etc. og det jeg har gjort opp mot politikere etc, på bloggen min: http://www.samfunnsbloggen.com/424987943
Rikard S. Larsen, for noe tøv, du skriver. Et klaps skal gi et alvorlig psykisk traume? Hvilket planet er det du nettopp har landet fra? Det som kommer fra barnevernskretser er ofte så dumt, at jeg rett og slett ikke kan begripe det. De som kidnapper lykkelige barn fra velfungerende familier burde straffes strengt. Barnevernet har ikke noen hjelp å gi; det er et totalitært familie-politi, som skaper angst, redsel og utrygghet ved sin blotte eksistens. Barna er redde for barnevernet, for de vet at de kan bli fratatt sine foreldre. Vi trenger ikke redde barn. Da er det bedre at dette uvesenet forsvinner. Og det har jeg veldig mange med meg i. Advokater, professorer, ingeniører, siviløkonomer, leger etc. Bare ikke det sosialarbeider sjiktet som har barnevernet som sitt levebrød. Men det er faktisk ikke en menneskerett å leve av å bortføre andres barn. I gamle dager var det dødsstraff for sjørøveri, for sjørøvere tok slaver som ble solgt på slave-markedene. Barnevernet fungerer på samme måten: Det bortfører barn og barna generer inntekt for dem som får barna. Det er store penger å tjene på foster-virksomhet. En kassadame kan tjene kr 600000 i året på å ha et fosterbarn hos seg. Det er ikke rart dette er ettertraktet blant lavere middelklasse. Det er et meget godt alternativ til NAV. Og det er ingen tidsbegrensning, for barna kan jo bo der til de blir voksne. Tretten år med sikker inntekt er ikke dårlig i tider med høy arbeidsledighet. Men barna betaler for dette med sin barndom. Istedenfor å bli lykkelig og harmoniske mennesker, risikerer de å bli både skjevutviklet og deprimerte i voksen alder. Og foreldrene deres lider, så det monner. Både du og denne Knut Nygaard er empatiløse mennesker, som passer inn i det totalitære samfunnet som er avhengig av at noen blindt adlyder ordre. Rumenere har opplevd diktatur og kjenner lusa på gangen.
Du snakker som om barn er noe som man eier, at de ikke har sanser og fornemmelser. Og de som bruker fysisk makt mot barn, er faktisk de som først bryter de så hellige menneskerrettighetene som skal gjelde for de voksen.
Nei, her har vist logisk tenkning, og medfølelser for den svake part forsvunnet ut til en annen planet virker det som. Det er nytte løst å snakke med mennesker som har et lukket sin. Men nå skulle jo jeg egentlig blit “blokkert” fra denne siden, vist nok. Men gud bedre for noen snevre syn som blir formidlet her. Når jeg snakker om endringer som vil minske tvangsovertagelser, så lenge det ikke er snakk om fysisk avstraffelse i noen form, eller seksuell misbruk av barn. Og så lurer man på hvilken planet jeg er på……… Stakkars mennesker som ikke klarer å se inn i seg selv, og se den avmakt de forherliger ved å si at det å gi barn klaps, ris etc. ikke bør reageres på. Det verste er vel det at de går i tog for å demonstrerer for menneskerettigheter til beste for barna, men glemmer barnas rettigheter, som den svakeste part. Da blir det mer til hva som er til beste for de voksne, en hån i mot alle barn som blir utsatt for fysisk avstraffelse etc. i barneoppdragelsen, og deres rettigheter.
So “Delight in Truth” why am I not banned yet? Sins this page is so “minor” in its thinking and presenting the real truth, but are more intrested in the rights of the parents, insted of the rights of the weakest part, the child.
Of course I don`t defend anybody who threatens to kill anybody! You are talking so much silly nonsense, Knut!
Looks like Rikard is here to defend Barnevernet removing children from their home without due process, without investigation and as a measure of first resort.
Perhaps he approves of the BV social workers trying to coerce Ruth Bodnariu to sign false documents saying that her husband beat her?
Perhaps Rikard approves of leading questions that BV asked the Bodnariu children to extract allegations of spanking… to the point the girl said: “I am tired of making stuff up?”
Perhaps Rikard is like Knut, blinded by progressive ideology to the point he lost all common sense?
You must be an idiot. If you realy think that. Nut it say more about you, then about me. Meybe you like to hitt/spank kids your self?
If you resort to name calling you will be banned from this site.
Thank you…. It shows realy what you stand for…..
At this point we haven’t learned anything from Rik, Delight. However, I will retain my vote to ban him until he has completely proven that he is useless.
I agree DiT. Common sense is gone. I bet the Bodnariu are much better parents than many of those so called perfect parents. When I grew up corporal punishment was common
I yet have to find someone who would want to be removed from his family. Hey let’s ask the Norwegians if they wished to be removed because of it. Yes times are changing but CPS used overly drastically measures. The parents never got any chance.
The family will be reunited. I am sure of that. The parents wanted to change what needed. Still there is a lot of good in the family. It is only the question when. How does nobody wonder that the baby was returned? Expert psychologist said the separation does not help the kids at all.
YES, KIKK ME OUT,….. Denay the childrens rights to a life with out eny violence and fear. That is the trut of what all should be fighting for. But instead your fighting for your right to spank a child. And you dear to say you have det best interest for the child. The trut hurts you, so then you attack the ones that is realy fighting for the child, and not for the adults. All the missguidet we can see in the comentarys her. O lord give them the knowleg of love, and the means to look into them selvf and ther wrong doing.
Do you profess to be a Christian and believe the Bible?
NO! The world would be a bether place with out it, christians and the bible. I belive in my god, who is the god of love, and not a god of violence like your god. So I can`t call my self christian, thanks my God for that. For as long as you as a christian can aprove the breaking of the humanrights og the child, broken by parents in the first place, by using violense inn the child uppbringing. And then you talk about CPS braking the same humanrights whwn they try to protect the child form violence, and you say det CPS is bad when they brake the parents or childs humanrights, buth who broke the humanrights first, the parents who use violense inn any degre, or the CPS deneying the parents to have the child. witch is more wallue to you, the child or the parents? So far you have only talked for the parents…….
I can guarantee you that the BOdnariu children are 10 times more traumatised by the separation than their own home. I am very sure that these children will be reunited, its the only possibility. I wonder, why are accused criminals in Norway treated with more human rights than parents that have lost their children? Parents who have their children removed almost never get them back. That equals life in prison, because many children will be completely estranged from their whole family. What criminals get life in prison in Norway, for what offenses?
Go and ask your grandparents what they think about it. 9 out of 10 Norwegians have supported corporal punishment just few decades ago. What a double standard. Yes times are changing, yes its not allowed, but how about the punishment has to fit the crime?
How about the abuse done by CPS? How did the children feel being taken out of their schools and homes by strangers and being placed by complete strangers hours away from their homes without any explanations. The siblings were separated by large distances. The girls were completely isolated from anyone, not just the parents but anyone for almost 3 months. The family was not allowed to call them on their birthday. CPS was lying saying that the girls were integrating in their foster homes while in fact they want to go home all the time. Two psychologists who have met the family and have seen the file are siding with the family. The CPS appointed psychologist made a positive evaluation of the home. Einar Salvesen after reading the documents and speaking with the parents is convinced as psychologist and human being (in his own words) that this does not help children at all, on the contrary. The baby was just returned to them and visits to the boys were increased.
Yes I am sure these children will be returned and the parents will not discipline their children anymore the way they did. There is so much good in the family that many people do not see.
In the United States they go in protest against the Norwegian child welfare for children’s rights, they say …….
But maybe they should go in train towards their own system first, when such thing as this occurs ……
But such can not happen in the US, because then they might not have demonstrate the in the child welfare here, but against child abuse and getting body violated in the United States, and then chaired get their human rights violated.
I USA går de i tog mot det norske barnevernet, for barnas rettigheter, sier de…….
Men kanskje de burde gå i tog mot deres eget system først, når slike tingen som dette forekommer……
Men slikt kan jo ikke skje i USA, for da ville de jo ikke ha demostrert i mot barnevernet her, men mot barn som blir mishandlet og får legeme krenket i USA, og så ledes får sine menneskligerettigheter krenket.
American child upbringing in a child-school.
Ammerikansk barne oppdragelse i en skole.
So now I have then maybe out to parade, demonstrate infront of the US embassy etc. etc.
Så nå må jeg da kanskje ut å gå i tog, demonstrere forann den amerikanske ambasade etc. etc.
Or should I let it be an problem for the american people to solve…..
Or should I solve it for them, like they wnat to solve the Norwegian CPS problem….
There have been plenty of people protesting and demonstrating in the USA against unwise and unwarranted CPS decisions there. That does not mean that one should not ALSO spend time helping persecuted people in other countries.