Religion Was the Issue Before Bodnariu Confiscation

Senator Ben-Oni Ardelean was right when he said that the Bodnariu case contains elements of religious persecution.

The Christian Post reports that the Bodnariu religion may have been a major factor in confiscating the five children. Newly revealed information from case documents shows that the municipality was concerned that the parents were radical Christians.

The Christian Post:

“Documents and minutes of meetings have emerged since the abduction showing that as early as Oct. 13, 2015, more than a month before the children were taken into custody, the officials at Naustdal municipality disapproved of the parenting style of the Bodnariu parents; believing it, after questioning the children, to be based on the Bible,” Costea [president of the Alliance for Romania’s Families] wrote.

“They plainly state that Barnevernet ‘is worried that this is a way of upbringing which is justified by the Bible.’ The authorities pivoted their contemplated removal of the children on the ‘attitude’ the parents ‘have to their own faith and way of upbringing when it comes to religion.'”

“The documents also mention that the children were ‘brought up to respect God and their parents’ values.’ Barnevernet interpreted this as a possible conflict between the children’s assumed inability to live up to their parents’ value expectations and faith and that the parents’ religion could create an ‘inner conflict’ in the children and a stressful family environment,” Costea continued. “Religion is bad for children, Barnevernet’s minutes seem to say, and too much religion is lawful justification for snatching children away from their parents.””

Liberal defenders of Barnevernet keep saying that this case has nothing to do with religion. They keep saying it has nothing to do with human rights.

But the truth will not be mocked for long.

It is important to note that this information has been suppressed in later court hearings. Barnevernet was hoping that this would not come out because it would expose the Norwegian system based on religious harassment, if not persecution.

Evidence of harassment based on religion elevates this case to another level. Freedom of speech, press, religion, assembly etc, are fundamental human rights which cannot be ignored, and they will not be ignored when the BBC will publish their upcoming program on Norway’s Barnevernet.

27 comments on “Religion Was the Issue Before Bodnariu Confiscation

  1. About the school’s role:

    Practically every day there are items in Norwegian media about ‘the necessity of reporting any “suspicions” to Barnevernet’. Private individuals are encouraged to do this, public institutions like schools are obliged to. It is in no way specified what constitutes a reasonable “suspicion”, although the politically correct ideology is that ANYTHING is, and that everybody should report far more than they do. Hence a lot of reports have clear elements of just individual likes and dislikes.

    When it comes to schools, another motive is very clear: getting rid of any problem the school may have with a child or with parents, by reporting it as a case for Barnevernet. I have been in touch with some cases like that: a child is unruly, or is behind in its learning, or is “odd” or “oppositional” at school (a teacher’s attitude to the Bodnariu girl sounds fairly typical); the school does not know how to handle it, so it reports the family to Barnevernet. (Cf cases g) and c) here:
    http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html).
    That quite often results in the kid disappearing from that school, because Barnevernet takes the kid and places it for fostering in a different district, so the school has got rid of a “problem”.

    Usually, Barnevernet and the reporting school agree that “it is the parents’ fault”. The procedure is accidental, no firm procedure of investigation being used, neither in the school nor in Barnevernet. Occasionally, Barnevernet is more sensible and goes against the school! As in this instance:

    A newspaper article yesterday told us of some families complaining to the municipality about a particular school. Their children had been harassed, without the teachers attempting to do anything about it. One family had found it necessary to move to another district, another managed to have their children transferred to another school. One of the mothers was intervjued:
    – My children were harassed away from the school. ….. Her experience has been that the school does not manage to tackle the bullying. – Instead of weeding out their own problems [the school] reports whole families to Barnevernet, but Barnevernet does not find anything wrong”, says the mother.

    The article: “The children were bullied away from the school”
    http://www.rb.no/nyheter/mobbing/ovre-romerike/barna-ble-mobbet-ut-av-skolen/s/5-43-242368

  2. Pingback: Religion Was the Issue Before Bodnariu Confiscation | „A venit Învăţătorul şi te cheamă.”

  3. I think it is clear to most people following the Bodnariu family that there has always been a religious aspect to this particular case as demonstrated in Delight In Truth’s article. However, many argue that the issue in Norway is not religious persecution, but simply that religious people are caught up in a system that catches everyone equally. They will further argue that as long as the end evidence submitted in court doesn’t specifically talk about religion then it wasn’t really a case of religious persecution. I dispute both of these claims. I do not dispute that both religious and non-religious alike are harmed by this system. I fully expect there are atheists who have been harmed by this system. This does not mean that religious persecution is not present.

    Consider a scenario where a government passed a law that said all people with brown eyes will be jailed. Could this government reasonably argue that they are not discriminating against people of African, or Asian descent because there are also citizens of western European descent with brown eyes who also get arrested? Of course not! Despite the government not mentioning these races specifically, by outlawing their characteristics they are persecuting them. In the same way outlawing basic beliefs of the Christian faith, such as that discipline is a necessity in raising one’s children, is religious persecution. That there are other non-Christian people who also believe in discipline and are therefore punished under the same law is irrelevant. When you make the practice of someone’s faith illegal, you are persecuting their faith whether they are the only people caught in the net or not. In the same way that if I jail all brown-eyed people, it makes no difference if there are also people of European descent caught in the net. Those of Asian and African descent are still being persecuted.

    Furthermore, what is the supposed guiding principle for these decisions? Barnevernet claims to be looking out for the best interest of the child. Who decides the standards for this? There are a number of types of things we have seen used. One is that Barnevernet is concerned for the child’s mental health. From Delight In Truth’s article we see “Barnevernet interpreted this(brought up to respect God and their parents) as a possible conflict between the children’s assumed inability to live up to their parents’ value expectations and faith and that the parents’ religion could create an ‘inner conflict’ in the children and a stressful family environment.” This basically tells us that an important ‘metric’ is the child’s self-esteem. Assuming one could actually measure such a thing, this type of measure is immediately in opposition to the Christian faith. We serve a holy, righteous, and perfect God. The very best works we will ever perform are but filthy rags when compared to His perfection. We have nothing to offer Him, and it is only through our sinless Savior bearing our rightful punishment for us that we are saved. True Christian faith offers much space for humility, but does not offer self-esteem as the world views it. Therefore any idea of ‘best interest’ that is based on this standard is directly in opposition to Christian faith.

    What other standards does Barnevernet apply? One standard we repeatedly see is proper material provision for the child. In other words, some state defined appropriate level of wealth. As Christians we know that money is the root of all sorts of evil. In fact Jesus tells us that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. There is most certainly no sin or shame in not having wealth. So, a standard of child well-being that involves material wealth beyond minimum necessities such as food and shelter is also completely at odds with the Christian faith.

    There is an even deeper point though. The Christian faith teaches a view of marriage and the family that mirrors the relationship of Christ and His church. There are specific roles and responsibilities before God of husbands to wives, wives to husbands, parents to children and children to parents. You will not hear Christians suggesting that atheists or Muslims should have their children taking away even though they teach things we would view as eternally harmful. This would be to destroy the family as created by God and responsible to God. However, when a secular state passes secular, anti-Christian laws, and uses them to place the state as the ultimate authority in family life in order to then violently tear apart the God-ordained family structure, this is in clear opposition to the Christian faith.

    When secular governments set secular standards for what is important in a child’s life, they will force teaching, actions, and priorities that are in opposition to the Christian faith. Whether Christianity is specifically referenced or not, the result when these standards are violently enforced on families is still persecution of Christians. The fact that other people of other faiths, or no faith, are also persecuted changes nothing because it is the Christian faith that makes the Christian family at fault under the law.

    • Very well stated, Matt.

      It’s been almost 30 years ago that I was teaching in a Christian school on the west coast in America. A student was in trouble in the principle’s office. I’m not aware of what the child did, but it was bad enough that his parents had been called to come and pick him up.

      When the father arrived to pick the boy up, the boy managed to outmaneuver both the principal and his father to grab the phone and call 911 (an emergency call here in America). My understanding is that the two men had to pull the boy “off the wall” before he was finally calm enough to be removed from the school.

      You included::

      “From Delight In Truth’s article we see “Barnevernet interpreted this(brought up to respect God and their parents) as a possible conflict between the children’s assumed inability to live up to their parents’ value expectations and faith and that the parents’ religion could create an ‘inner conflict’ in the children and a stressful family environment.” This basically tells us that an important ‘metric’ is the child’s self-esteem. Assuming one could actually measure such a thing, this type of measure is immediately in opposition to the Christian faith.”

      It is well put.

      I’ve taught parenting classes on self-esteem from a Christian viewpoint. I came to like the term “self-worth,” since we all have that in God’s eyes, rather than the term “self-esteem” which may mean many things.

      You wrote:

      “However, when a secular state passes secular, anti-Christian laws, and uses them to place the state as the ultimate authority in family life in order to then violently tear apart the God-ordained family structure, this is in clear opposition to the Christian faith.”

      So true.

      Rebellious children can be very smart and very good at lying. What’s to stop a child from doing the exact thing the child mentioned above did? Maybe the child doesn’t call 911 but instead calls the CPS or DHS. In a society that is in clear opposition to the Christian faith who does its government believe? In a society that is in clear opposition to the Christian faith there is a lack of wisdom.

      I am glad that voices, like yours Matt, are speaking out against such opposition.

      God’s blessings…

      • Thank you for sharing your comments and experience Chris.

        I definitely agree that giving children, and frankly people in general, a view of worth in God is far more valuable, and more accurate, than ‘self-esteem’. If everyone understood that their worth comes from God, and not from man, that they have dignity because they are made in His image and that then everyone else has the same we would be a much wiser society. The whole concept of self-esteem (which mostly seems to be just narcissism) is so misdirected from a Christian point of view. Nothing in Scripture would lead us to esteem ourselves…we should esteem Christ.

        Also, your example of the rebellious child is perfect to the situation, and I am quite sure many families in Norway have been torn apart for just that type of reason.

        • You will find good back-up regarding “self-esteem”, Matt, in Robyn Dawes’ book “House of Cards. Psychology and Psychotherapy Built on Myth”. Also, there is a description in the section “Risk indicators” here:
          http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7035

          Much talk about self-esteem being so important actually recommends hubris. A REALISTIC understanding of self-respect and respect for others seems a better idea. Did I ever post here an interesting remark made in the context of a CPS between Sweden and Malaysia? There, too, it was a question of whether the parents had punished their children physically. They probably had given them heavier punishment than spanking, but anyway the question of course remained: Should the children be deprived of their whole family forever?

          Some of the discussions were about the CPS’s claim that the parents had given the children irreparable traumas and damage to their self-esteem. Here is what one comment in a debate said:

          •••
          My parents spanked me as a child

          As a result I now suffer from a psychological condition known as
          “Respect for Others”
          •••
          http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=34346#p34346

  4. People who have no relation to faith on a personal level have no experience of how it’s to be a child in such a home. They wish all to be so alike that they fit in at school and in the society as a whole. An example: some years ago at son in a radical christian home should bring him one cd that he should play something from and tell the rest of his class why he chose this. The kid – age around 11 – took wiht him this cd

    and just by a look at the cover the teacher made his thoughts. This cd was presented to the class after a girl had presented hers – Alice Cooper. The teacher became curious and asked the boy if he could borrow the cd – and the weeks passed by and the father had to contact the teacher to finally get it back. What impact it had on the teacher or if this was a preparation for something in the direction of the CPS I don’t know, but people in a secular society don’t know what to think about christians who take their fate seriously.
    In Norway we have christian private schools. It’s interesting to know – and study – how these pupils grow up. Although tables are turned there is no garanty that they will leave school in the same harmony as they were when they started. And when they disharmonice a family it hurts more than in the more common teenage rebelling.

  5. Whatever the reasons may be – religious or non-religious, Barnevernet’s agenda is to take away as many children as possible. Barnevernet has no problem “inventing” reasons if it needs to, just to make sure that it gets what it wants. In addition, the fact that the school educators are being instructed to make quick phone calls to Barnevernet, for whatever reason, and the government’s refusal to get involved and to stop these kidnappings from occurring to begin with – this is a clear indication that the entire Kingdom of Norway is directly or indirectly behind the child-kidnapping machine.
    So the question remains: Is Barnevernet part of Norway, or vice-versa?…
    Who is running whom?…

    • The CPS have just one give agenda -. help the family and the child when it is necessary and in accordance with the child care law, In every municipal you find this service and some are small like that one in Naustdal ( 2700 inhabitants) who received 27 concerns in 2014. The office I work with – in a large town by Norwegian standard ( 37000 inhabitants) we received 475 concerns. 20% of the investigations ended with dismissal. 28% ended with dismissal after we had proposed help measures that the parents did not accept.

      To end an investigation with a conclusion of measures means more hard work and money given to help this child and family. It would be more easy for us to end all cases with dismissal.

      Official workers as f.i. teachers are bidden by law to inform the CPS if they are aware of something that they themselves are not the right ones for. A teacher or the principal can call it if the information is serious and may proceed to an acute intervention, but CPS will of cause have all concerns from offical persons written. It is this document that opens the case and the written content is that parents are met with.

      The rest of your comment could be from a manus to a movie had it not been for the dull conspiricy leaking out of your words.

      • Thanks for sharing, Knut

        It sounds like you are trying to do your best. At the same time, when a secular state passes secular, anti-Christian laws, one can see how Christians would have grave concerns. After reading some of the information here, my concerns are for Christian and non-Christian families.

        God’s blessings…

        • I have now read what Delight has discovered about you, Knut. I now have grave concerns about you.

          I can only hope that God will open your eyes and heart.

        • There is a positive with having people like Knut Nygaard posting. For example, it tells you a lot about how people in the organization think when they tell you that in 48% of cases they didn’t prosecute or destroy the family and they think it sounds like a good thing.

      • Norway CPS agenda is about MONEY?
        ” One child confiscated and sent through the system will safeguard at least six employee’s jobs in CPS, barnevernet, for six months. The investors will also get a big return on investment as well.
        Five children, over ten years will make the foster/adoptive replacement parents €2.5 million (tax fee, plus all sorts of grants and bonuses). Everyone wins, except the parents and their children who have had their lives destroyed and devastated beyond belief for extremely flimsy reasons.”

      • Knut Nygaard:
        Thank you for describing some of the ramifications of the child-kidnapping machine… The justification of the kidnapping and the laws supporting it are lame excuses. It’s simply too obvious, and for you to take the side of such an evil system indicates that – instead of being part of the solution -, you have chosen to be part of the problem!
        What’s the next big step for Barnevernet?… To make murder “official” and to have the Norwegian citizens “bidden by law” to allow it to happen?
        The high number of children systematically kidnapped by Barnevernet indicates that CPS (Child Poaching System) is a profitable business, highly supported and encouraged by the Norwegian people who are “bidden by law” to make sure that the system operates smoothly and confidentially.

        It would be better if the kidnappings were not true and only taken from a horror movie. Unfortunately, in the cold climate of Norway, Barnevernet is for real, man…

        •   
          “Child Poaching System/Service” is quite a good translation! Actually, it much resembles a “variant” lauched by CPS victims in Norway, one which has become quite well-known. It is like this:

          “barne-vern” is composed of “barn” = “child” (plus a linking -e-) and then “vern” = “protection”. The “-et” at the end is the definite article (Norwegian has a suffixed definite article, like Romanian. Only the e of a word-final article is pronounced.)

          The variant is “barne-fjern” = “child” + “removal” !

        • Oh, Knut. I know that Delight has been patient with you but I bet he’s considering banning you from further comment.

          The only reason I can see for him allowing you to continue is to use you as an example.

          It’ll be interesting to see which decision he makes.

        • Matt,

          This comment refers to your statement above:

          “There is a positive with having people like Knut Nygaard posting. For example, it tells you a lot about how people in the organization think when they tell you that in 48% of cases they didn’t prosecute or destroy the family and they think it sounds like a good thing.”

          God’s blessings…

  6.   
    Chris wrote:
    “Oh, Knut. I know that Delight has been patient with you but I bet he’s considering banning you from further comment.”

    I agree one cannot be obliged to keep discussions on one’s own website available for derailing forever, and besides, it is entirely up to Delight. People like Mr Nygaard tend to crop up whenever critics write about Barnevernet – but it is in a way handy, at least for a while, to have them give a live illustration of what CPS victims are up against.

    There was an example of this on the Bitcoin forum: a Norwegian CPS defender who dictated to everybody that they should “stand to attention” and do this and that. The thread is called “Child kidnapping by the Norwegian state” and I found it a good place to post information. After a while I thought I should write something about this “commander hofor”, and I think perhaps I helped a number of readers understand more than they had before about the CPS. I hope Romanians do too:

    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg11085731#msg11085731

    I see Mr Nygaard has posted extensively about my person in another thread. I don’t need to defend myself, I don’t think, since I try to give links from time to time to things written by others, writings which may help people make up their own minds more independently of what I say. Nevertheless, I will try to find time to write a little here on DiT about my background and doings in the CPS field, since it may perhaps be useful for readers here who are far away from where I am, if I am as un-ghostly as possible, me having posted relatively much about issues in connection with the Bodnariu case and CPS generally. I am not so mysterious and conspiratorial as Mr Nygaard thinks. – – It will then be up to Delight if he finds my account too long and irrelevant, he can then delete it!

  7. I propose you send this video to the pentacostal network in Norway ( and also the CPS in Naustdal and the county board) and get them as forerunners for the family – this was beautiful and with the right Spirit – thanks to the Bodnariu’s.

Share your thoughts...

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s