The real answer to this question, of course is the work of conviction and renewal by the Holy Spirit in their heart.
But what do hardened atheists say when asked this question?
This is what atheist Peter Boghossian writes in his book A Manual for Creating Atheists:
“…if I walked outside at night and all of the stars were organized to read, “I am God communicating with you, believe in Me!” and every human being worldwide witnessed this in their native language, this would be suggestive (but far from conclusive as it’s a perception and could be a delusion).”
On Real Time with Bill Maher, Maher has a humorous response to what it would take for him to believe:
“Jesus Christ coming down from the sky during the halftime show at the Super Bowl and turning nachos into bread and fish.”
Silly atheists…
Delight in Truth would argue that some of these atheists would reject Jesus even if He came down during the Super Bowl and performed a physical miracle. Follow the conversations Jesus has with His opponents in John 6 and John 8. Despite the miracles He was doing in their midst, they still did not believe in Him. In fact, they wanted to kill Him. In the same way we have hardened people today who hate God (even though they claim he does not exists).
Clearly pharaoh did not believe in God despite the exceptional miracles performed through Moses… and in our case, Maher would have us think that he would believe in Jesus if he saw nachos turn into bread… This is an abominable proposition in the very least.
Why do atheistic activists fight with such fervor against the concept of a monotheistic God, especially the God of the Bible? When was the last time you saw an anti-theist mock an eastern religion? They focus on Christianity and Jesus because that is where the truth is, and the truth bothers them. They have no problem with Buddhism and other polytheistic religions, but they go after the Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Why?
Because they love sin.
God’s moral standard is perfect and they reject it in favor of their own system of so-called morality. They do this in order to numb their God-given conscience and continue to sin.
The next time an atheist or anti-theist challenges you, ask him why he fights so hard against a God whom he claims does not exist…
Delight in Truth 
You convinced my. And es these Egyptian guys also did the staff to snake trick, so their gods must be true. I praise you, Lord Anubis. Thanks for opening my eyes. Oh, and I read some story of Odin doing some magic tricks, too… Well, I see a conversion coming my way, sorry Lord Anubis.
Welcome back AM.
I must admit, those Egyptians were pretty impressive. But there is room for those miracles in the Bible and particularly the sermons of Jesus.
Matthew 24:24
“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.”
Yes, I know. Especially this Jesus guy. Horrible, isn’t it? How could he try to lead us away from Odin?
Sorry, let’s try to talk like adult here: Stories from a time where everyone believed in magic are not really convincing, because there are thousands of them – and claiming “my magic is more miraculous than your magic” isn’t really a good argument, but sounds rather childish. Simply accept that a book where magic is real might be less than historically accurate.
(And please, don’t get me started about the whole “atheists like to sin” b******t It’s evidence for the type of person you are, nothing more.)
For simplicity sake I define sin as breaking the Ten Commandments ( it’s more complicated but this will suffice for discussion).
I argue that all of us like to sin, not just atheists. I don’t know how you define sin or if you think sin is real, but the reality is that we have an innate impulse to break moral code, whatever that code is.
What do you think is the origin of moral restraint? Do you realize that it is counter to evolutionary theory? Moral restraint has divine origin because it is counter to our very fabric.
Just an example… I read how the 6 month old can lie. In some circumstances he will scream faking discomfort and pain just to be picked up. THAT is an intrinsic impulse. A three year old will lie to your face… And no one taught him to do that. It is innate in us.
Moral restraint is outside of us. It has a different origin. Divine origin.
If you define it this way, you may call me a sinner and I will gladly defend sin. I know, someone like you isn’t big on it, but I really like the whole religious freedom concept.
I don’t realize the origin of moral restraint. I know some theories, but none of them are proven yet. “God” isn’t even among them, because he’s not even a theory. Anyway, it’s probably not so simple with one single reason, but more likely a combination of various factors.
You may believe whatever you want, but why morality cannot be a product of evolution (biological as well as social) isn’t quite clear to me. But perhaps you have some evidence for that?
Honestly, your example doesn’t make the least bit of sense. With the same argument you could claim that building model planes has divine origin. A three year old cannot build one. The ability to do so is outside us. It has a different origin. Divine origin. B******t.
If you ask me, an amateur, moral has it’s basis in some biological traits (evolved), like the will to survive, the wish to keep one’s offspring safe, etc. that led to social rules that evolved culturally to give the societies more stability and thus the individual more security. Claiming them to be of divine origin was a way to make those rules sound more important, because quite simply, most people then didn’t understand what they were doing (some philosophers tried, but philosophy wasn’t something you could really sell to the masses). And, as with all social values, they have to be learned. Simple. So, morality is a wild mixture of biological, social, philosophical, emotional, etc. factors.
And, as a little punchline: If god exists, he totally failed to make his morality clear to you Christians, because you can’t even agree among yourself what it is. How do you think anyone would believe a random Christian when there are millions of other Christians contradicting him?
“If you define it this way, you may call me a sinner and I will gladly defend sin”
Wow. How are you going to defend, lying, cheating, murder, stealing, coveting, etc? Let me guess, evolutionary advantage? 🙂
On morality you dismiss divine origin (and that’s fine) but instead you go with “morality is a wild mixture of biological, social, philosophical, emotional, etc. factors.” ?
Seems to me like your atheism is really anti-theism.
Your position is a reactionary stance to theism, specifically monotheistic judeo-christian faith. Am I correct?
You should at least try to understand my posting, as my sin is more with the 2nd commandment (among others, for example, while I like and honor my mother, I understand that having sex doesn’t make you honorable automatically and you can still be a horrible parent that deserves to get the child taken away).
Ironically, some Christians seem to have no problem with death sentence, lying for Jesus, etc. But, as surprisingly many Christians also take the Pharisee as a role model and not Jesus, that’s probably not surprising.
My position is, that I don’t believe that a god exists. That’s all. I go from there. For example, I look at the 10 commandments and see some obvious rules to create a stable society (do not kill your neighbor, for example) that was not new (no, people didn’t run around slaying their neighbors before that) with the addition of some religious to kill religious freedom.
I cannot prove that there is a Creator, and you cannot do the opposite. But still, if you were to guess, what are the odds that my God exists?
You cannot prove that fairies, invisible unicorns, Zeus, etc.etc. exist. So what? inalsifiability is NOT an argument FOR something.
Your god? The Christian god as written about in the bible? As near to zero as it gets. I acknowledge that there might be theistic or deistic god (simply because I cannot disprove him, but I still would put the chance for that below 1%), but the Christian faith is so extremely self-contradictory, human, etc. that it leads to one conclusion: The bible is not accurate, it’s obviously made by human. So god, should he exist, must be at least in some details different from what is said in the bible. So the exact god of the bible does with almost certainty not exist.
Of course the bible is written by humans. But I am surprised you give yourself a chance to spend eternity in hell.
I also give myself a chance of being re-incarnated as an animal. So what? It’s simply the admission that, as long as something is not disproven, it’s not proven as impossible, even if it’s not falsifiable and not likely.
Here we are in Pacal’s Wager territory, with all it’s problems…
Choosing one religion would only increase my chances for heaven minimally – or might even decrease them, depending on which religion is right. I might chose Christianity, but what if some other sect of Christianity is right? Or Islam? Or
And of course, it would require a god that accepts a pretend-faith. As I don’t believe, I would have to do as if, because I wouldn’t go to hell, just in case. Do you know a god who would like that? To be the “just in case” god? Not really.
And what do I have to lose? Everything. My whole life – because I would need to give it away to follow random rules etc. I have got nothing more, so for me, it means betting EVERYTHING. It doesn’t matter that my loss would be finite – it could be infinite, for all I care, because infinite or finite, if I lose everything, I have nothing left.
But, honestly, chances for hell are even smaller (to me) than chances for a god. If you ask me, what god (you know, the thing who created a huge universe where we are a really insignificant part in a small, far off part) is more likely to be… a small minded maniac or a being we can’t even begin to comprehend and that probably doesn’t give a rat’s ass about us – your god wouldn’t win, sorry. Even if there is a god – it’s probably not yours. Your god is a human invention.
Because, while your god may not exist, there are people like you who think he does, and gosh darn if it doesn’t get annoying when you tell us what we think.
Dear Ignostic Atheist, interesting choice of terms…
“your god may not exist”
Does that mean you are open to the possibility that God exists?
What would it take for you to believe in (a) God?
http://ignosticatheist.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-a-god/
I read your post “What Would It Take for Me to Believe in a God?” IA. I’m curious. What is an Ignostic Atheist?
An ignostic is a person who believes that some or all conceptions of god are incoherent or unfalsifiable, and therefore not worth talking about.
An atheist is a person who believes there is no god.
An ignostic atheist is a person who believes some or all conceptions of god are incoherent or unfalsifiable, and that the remainder don’t exist.
Thank you, IA. I know the definition of an atheist. Is there a difference between an ignostic and an agnostic?
You would be surprised the confusion that exists around the definition of atheism.
Agnosticism assumes that the definition of god is coherent and can be considered, even if it is just to say that it can’t be known.
Ignositc atheist, its generally the atheist that tells the theist, what he or she thinks, the atheist is not capable of any type of framework synthesis/ analysis and differentiation. Most of use academically experienced theists know quite well how to operate within the atheistic framework, we are in fact surrounded by it, our culture and our science departments inundate us with the materialistic world view.
And yet I have people tell me all the time that I actually know Jesus because the Bible says it, followed by how horrible I am for rejecting Jesus. I get told that I am imposing my beliefs when all I’m doing is asking questions. And you just told me that I’m incapable of framework synthesis, analysis, and differentiation, which sounds like you’re trying to say I am without critical thinking.
I find it interesting that atheists always want God to do certain things…okay rearranging the stars and turning nachos into bread and fish are facetious statements, but the idea is the same. Atheists often want God to do what they want God to do, and if God doesn’t do it, then He must not exist. So there!
Wait a minute,you mean we’re not supposed to test God?
These demands are silly most of the time. A sincere analysis of the cosmological argument should at least make one ponder the ‘what if’ scenario. Starting out with the premise of ‘God does not exists until I see proof’ makes them ditch the evidence while awaiting for the proof.
Agree.
Thought you might like to see this. I came across this this morning. http://coldcasechristianity.com/2013/why-some-people-simply-will-not-be-convinced/
Your suggestion in the last sentence is a good one, Delight.
There are many atheists on a forum I’m a member of that deals with the evolution/creation subject who are as you describe IMO. Many are “hardened people today who hate God (even though they claim he does not exists).”
A Pew research poll taken in Oct, 2012, found that 20% of Americans Are Now Atheist, Agnostic or Unaffiliated …
“It’s important to note, though, that unaffiliated doesn’t necessarily mean “atheist,” the study noted.
Currently, about six percent of the U.S. public calls itself atheist.
Sadly, I think this number is increasing and that we can expect to hear more comments like the one Mr. Maher made. As you have mentioned here, many have seen the miracles of God and they still refuse to believe. I also think that “some of these atheists would reject Jesus even if He came down during the Super Bowl and performed a physical miracle.”
Eventually, everyone will believe, though it will be too late for many. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”
I see miracles daily. My daughter has survived a number of close calls because of her kidney transplant. I think she is a walking miracle. How can I look at the stars that Peter Boghossian mentions above and not admit that a creator exists? My Aunt is a textbook case. Doctors told her to go home and prepare to die because of an inoperable tumor on her lung. The church I went to put her on the prayer chain and calls were made asking for prayer. When she went back to the doctors, the tumor was gone. I’ll never forget that her daughter ran to our house to tell my Mom. The doctors had no explanation.
I don’t believe because of these miracles, but I can’t deny them. In the end, our beliefs are based on faith. To God be the glory.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Delight.
God’s blessings…
Thanks, Chris for sharing the experiences about your family. By now the philosophical arguments for and against the existence of God have been refined and written down thousands of times. Both sides have dug in and neither side is convincing the other. That is why our faith has a supernatural component, one that cannot be given to unbelievers by us. This sounds crazy to them, until something amazing happens and you see atheists become ardent believers.
I don’t speak for other atheists or anti-theists or anyone else really, but here’s my answer: http://myatheistlife.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/evidence-that-a-god-exists/
Welcome here. I read your argument regarding the existence of the country by the name of France.
I would specify that we have more than evidence that France exists. We actually have proof. On that ground, the argument is not appropriate when discussing the existence of God.
We do not have proof that God exists. If we had proof, than atheism would be illogical by ANY standard.
What we have is evidence that God exists. Refer to the cosmological argument.
You asked – sort of – what evidence atheists need or want, and I told you. If the evidenciary methods we use for the existence of France don’t count for gods, then gods do not count.
If there were proof for a god, you’re right, atheism might be illogical but I bet you’d still find people worshipping gods for which there is no evidence despite that proof.
The KCA argument has been torn to shreds thousands of times, including by yours truly. It is NOT evidence that any god exists. Most of its premises are failures. The argument cannot stand on false premises and be considered anything but sad or laughable. Craig made a living out of preaching it boldly in a huge Gish Gallop then running away claiming to have won the argument.
There remains no credible evidence and hence no proof and consequent to this long standing situation we have no reason to believe it is at all probable that a god could exist, never mind does exist.
I concede that I cannot prove to you that God exists. But let me reiterate… Try to separate evidence from proof.
I challenge you to see the universe as evidence for a Creator. To see the fundamental physical forces that prevent everything from falling apart as evidence for a Being who holds them together. To see the complexity of life as more than just chance. To see the debate on this issue as evidence that the One debated may actually… exist. 🙂
So, when I was young I was a bible thumping evangelical fundamentalist, one that you might even describe as militant – perfectly ripe for recruiting as a suicide bomber if that were the christian way.
The challenge you set before me here is the very challenge that my early life set for me. I went and looked at religions, science, complexity, morals and all that could be thought… ancient aliens, mystics… all of it. I did not get to my position on a whim.
I have considered the chance that we live in a simulation and as many other options as have ever been presented. Please don’t assume that my position means I’ve never ever thought like you or believed like you. When I was 18 there were more books on theology and philosophy in my house than many believers have ever bothered to look at. I still own 8 different bibles and guides for study. My father is no longer a preacher, but he’s retired now.
I challenge you to learn some science or at least enough to understand why atheists believe you are wrong. The conversation is much more interesting if we both have the same library of knowledge (or close) to work with.
Thanks for being candid (and a bit condescending, but that is ok…) 🙂
So we share about the same number of Bibles, probably similar Christian theology books…
I still have my college books from my biochem background and I have a ton of medical books from med school and post grad.
I fully understand what naturalism, evolution, and science teach (limited by my education of course).
I am not so much interested in the details of scientific theories, even though I understand them, as I am in the spiritual aspect of what makes a person be an atheist or a Christian.
I am addressing this because I realize you probably know as much Christian theology as myself having been raised in a Christian home.
The one thing that makes me want to worship the biblical God is not the universe and its splendor (although that is amazing), but the prophecies of the OT fulfilled in the person of Jesus. These can be easily dismissed as vague, but when I examine Psalm 22, how can I just dismiss it?
https://delightintruth.com/2014/01/13/how-another-doctor-challenged-my-faith/
There are myriad problems with accepting prophecy from the christian holy text, or any text, as it happens. Name one prophecy for which we have evidence? I don’t mean predicting the world cup champions. I mean something specific which cannot be known ahead of time or even guessed at. There are none on record that I know of.
Using baysian methods, this would put the probability of bible prophecy having any value at near zero. The writers of the bible had an agenda, the entire story of jesus’ birth seems to have been twisted and enhanced simply to fulfill prophecy and even at that it’s wrong.
Psalms is a very interesting read yet a passion and despair driven love sonnet to god is not evidence for the existence of a god. How and why we think is a serious concern for myself. Belief in a god stops that emotion from being existential angst and turns it into a love sonnet. One can only wonder what would have happened if the writer of Psalms had had weekly therapy sessions.
Psalm 22:
“All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.” (Ps 22:17-18)
Apostle John accounts this exact detail at the cross:
“When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his garments and divided them into four parts, one part for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom, so they said to one another, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.” (John 19:23-24)
^^This would have been debunked by eyewitnesses at the time John wrote this if it were false.
There is plenty of evidence that Psalm 22 was written waaay before Christ. Such practice of crucifixion and dividing of victim’s clothing was not known at the time David wrote this psalm.
This is a prophetic psalm which was fulfilled in the passion of Christ.
There is a small problem remaining. Namely that you are accepting the story of Jesus’ crucifixion at face value rather than looking at the whole story. There are no eye witness accounts, not even one to contradict the prediction you find in Psalms. Saying that it was not contradicted is not the same as saying it is true, so we must look for other evidence to support the story that makes it seem like it is prophecy come true… when you do that it all falls apart. The author(s) of John would have read the Psalms. What is offered here as evidence of prophecy fulfilled is not evidence. The only source for either the prediction or the result are the same source and that source is of dubious origin and efficacy on many accounts, not least of which is the story of Jesus’ crucifixion.
In all likelihood there was a man named Jesus who was crucified… there the probability ends… no miracles, no zombie day in Jeruselem and so on.
“you are accepting the story of Jesus’ crucifixion at face value rather than looking at the whole story. There are no eye witness accounts, not even one to contradict the prediction”
The 4 gospels contain eyewitness accounts. At least 2 of them were written by eyewitnesses (Matthew, John). Why dismiss the gospels as historic accounts?
Please explain how you ‘know’ they were written by the apostles that went by the names Matthew and John.
The same can be asked of other ancient works, but we choose to persist on biblical authorship.
John: internal evidence (the disciple whom Jesus loved), and external (church fathers like Irenaeus)
Matthew: 2nd century church fathers… there has never been another author suggested in the early church
To just take one, The early church believed the world to be flat, the sun to be perfect, the Earth to be the center of existence and so on…. Their opinion on matters does not match evidence, so it too is to be questioned.
http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom
There is reason to doubt the authorship of all the gospels. If there is ‘any’ reason to doubt them, one must ponder the significance of an omnipotent being who can’t even make that clear… I’ve been here many times, thought this through. The words in a book alone are not enough. When we look at the evidence which ‘could’ corroborate the stories in the bible it does not turn out well for the veracity of the bible itself. It has been shown time and again that even just 10 years is enough to change truth to fiction and fiction to truth in the zeitgeist, and when that oral tradition is written down… well, some will take it as truth as if the authors were more committed to the truth and fair and balanced reporting than any mainstream media reporter today.
Yes, I doubt and question. Lucky for Thomas Jesus was willing to open his robes and let him feel the hole. You and I, we don’t get such consideration. YHWH was not even thoughtful enough to make sure the evidence pointed to the bible being true.
No problem with “doubt and question”
But please be a little more honest instead of comparing apples and Toyotas: church fathers and scientific concepts at the time… what does that have anything to do with circulated gospels whose authors were commonly agreed upon in the early church?
10 years for truth to fiction? That is a serious stretch! We are talking gospel material which has been found in hundreds and thousands of manuscripts which have a high degree of textual agreement among themselves. 10 years?
Regarding oral tradition… ok… generation to generation I will buy the degeneration argument. But we hare talking about eyewitnesses here…
The most scholarly gospel (Luke) interviewed eyewitnesses to the events it accounts. These were written down and we have them today. There is no dilution of message here when you consider these factors.
May I ask, what would you say is the SINGLE biggest factor that led to your falling away from the Christian faith?
Thank you for debating the subject.
Actually, the gospels are written down oral tradition of supposed eye witnesses, written several decades after the event… a minimum of 3 decades but generally thought to be over 5. In China today, shool children can be shown a picture of ‘tank man’ and they do not know what it is about. One faked picture gave reality to the Loch Ness Monster and there are many more examples. It really does take nothing more than 10 years to change a ‘white lie’ into accepted truth.
As for eyewitness accounts, the only accounts claimed to be eyewitness accounts are those in the very book that makes the claim in the first place… that is to say they are without any corroborating evidence.
I lost my faith when I set out to seek truth. Why is morality so wide spread instead of just within Christianity? Why are so many believers unable to be moral? What is the truth of mysticism? What is the truth of ancient aliens? Why do believers pick and choose their morals?
Trying to find the answers to questions like this lead me on a great journey of discovery that is impossible to relate in a couple of paragraphs. I have visted _and_ worshipped in temples and shrines and holy places all around the globe in search of what the truth is. To know that one religion is more true than another requires that one use logic and reason… as soon as logic and reason are applied all religions fail to live up to their promise… how can one know that one is true and all others are false? Many make the same claims yet condemn one another to hell. Worse yet, their greatest contribution to society is to condemn. Religions, any of them, which have spanned the globe have done so at the end of the ‘sword’ so to speak. It is not truth but force which pushes the belief. When I looked at just belief, not what I was taught, but all belief… it was then that I understood… none of it is true.
“the gospels are written down oral tradition of supposed eye witnesses”
Why do you claim this? There is no support for this.
Also I am not advocating religion. I think there is a great difference between religion and faith… Religion and salvation… Religion and Jesus.
Really? The gospels were not written in 30 CE, they were written at least 20 years after the fact. Books were not common household items at the time. In fact, there were few people writing anything down at the time and those that were do not corroborate the stories. There is no reason at all to believe that the gospels are first hand accounts of what they proclaim… especially in the narative of Jesus’ life. The Pauline letters are a different thing, and it’s not surprising that Paul espouses a different faith and religion than do the gospel accounts of Jesus’ teachings. It’s that faith vs. works thing all over again. There is every reason to not believe that which has zero corroborating evidence and for yourself the reason should be clear. If the simple words in a book are to be believed then those in the Koran should also be believed. The christian bible and the koran both carry the same weight of truth unless and until there is corroborating evidence to show one more truthful than the other. Of course, that doesn’t stop you from disbelieving the koran in favor of the christian bible… does it?
When you apply the same logic and reasoning to your own faith that you apply to other faiths, it becomes incredibly difficult to believe any of them as truth.
My atheistlife, I was wrong to think you understand Christian theology because you were raised evangelical. What you wrote above
“Paul espouses a different faith and religion than do the gospel accounts of Jesus’ teachings. It’s that faith vs. works thing all over again.”
^ that could not be more wrong. Your statement portrays a gross misunderstanding of biblical teaching. Even NON Christian NT scholars will dismiss your statement.
I believe that you do not understand what Jesus taught regarding human effort and salvation since you think he taught a works system.
Many biblical authors, over a very long period of time have a harmonious message, consistent across culture, two religions, political systems etc. Intriguing, no?
Myatheistlife, I really don’t have time to take on all the inconsistencies of your faith (and yes , it a faith) But I encourage you to watch the video below.
No one from your camp was able to come up with a coherent response. Ray Comfort exposed your fallacies in 38 short minutes .
Watch it and than get back to us.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U0u3-2CGOMQ
Wait. What? You don’t have 38 short minutes to write to me to explain anything, but you want me to waste 38 short minutes listening to the banana man?
Ray Comfort is a qualified idiot… they call him the banana man for a reason. He talks without having done any research nor having any evidence.
If you trust that man for your beliefs I feel anxious for you safety. He has demonstrably been shown to be wrong… Why would I spend that much time listening to such and idiot if you don’t have time to actually reply to me?
He he he .. I didn’t expect any other type of answer from you besides name calling and personal attacks . Actually that was the answer across the board coming from your camp to Ray’s video…you had no facts so the only way to come back is to dismiss his intellect…
Typical…. just think about this… if I am wrong, no big deal, I had a decent moral life with one great wife and few kids. When I die.. voila… nothing
If you are wrong, yes , you might’ve lived your life according to your own standards… (Because what other standards are there?)
probably had more women/men you slept with, maybe fathered children without a family, maybe you chose a gay life style…. fine… according to your own standards you were free…
But remember, if I am right… my friend eternity is on the other side.. a long long time… and I also know that you had moments when your conscience was bothering you because you are not sure that your faith is real and you know there is a big fat chance you are wrong .. .. I hope you are right, for your sake …
The response from all corners was a collective yawn, with the exception of fervent creationist circles who watched it with their … Myatheistlife is perfectly well excused for having no desire to watch your high priest’s 38 minutes of edited video, given that you essentially want him to write a review of it. However, I did force myself to suffer through those 38 minutes of self-righteous ignorance and wrote a review shortly after the video came out. I also took the time to point out his extraordinary d..h behavior concerning Ernest Hemingway, also in the video. Have a blast.
@gabebogdan,
The Ignostic Atheist has replied quite well here. You in turn offer Pascal’s wager which has also been torn to shreds many times. Some would ask you to stop drinking the cool-aid but I am not going to.
When Christian’s are urged to spread the word there are some specifics of what is meant to be accomplished. If your entire attempt to spread the word is to hand out invitations to a video by Comfort I think might want to read again those passages in the ‘good book’ which give instruction on this matter.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5 ESV
“For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, ”
That bit about destroying arguments and lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of god is the part you’re not getting right. Comfort uses the tricks of a con artist to sell his version of god. His arguments do not have the power to destroy arguments raised against the knowledge of god. They don’t even have the strength to help him google banana before speaking about them.
my atheistlife
Do you realize there are passages in the Bible referring to the “sphere” of the earth? Doesn’t sound flat to me…
Also, to every atheist out there…
I’m sure you’ve been told many times, but think how silly your cause is!!??
Do you see PhD scholars debating the veracity of Santa or Peter Pan? No, because we know they are fictional characters… Why, if you so truly believe God does not exist, let the case be? Like I don’t protest and create blogs and web pages against Santa.. I would
He considers a lunatic to fight agama dr something I’m convinced is unreal…
Aren’t there missing screws when one envisions a false enemy, and ferociously fights against and imaginative foe? We give people pills for that….
I’ll just quote to you my prior response:
Peter Pan and Santa are not out there lobbying governments to deny rights to others, they are not out in Africa supporting those that would kill gays and burn witches. The god of Abraham on the other hand is the inspiration for exactly that kind of inhumane behavior. Humane treatment of others is not a silly cause. Equal rights under the law is not a silly cause.
That you can’t see the problem means that you are incredibly likely to be a core part of the problem. It is not a false enemy, bigoted believers who are willing to kill for the laws in their holy texts are in fact very much real. We will take your position of priviledge from you and your cries of discrimination will be laughed at ….
Whoa… slow down myatheistlife…
The same ones killing gays in Africa are killing Christians as well, by beheading them. And the God of Abraham does not inspire those crime, rather the Koran is telling them to kill infidels.
Nice straw argument to pin Christianity via the misdeeds of radical Islam.
You should read more news…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
There is some starting points, Google the rest if you like
“Several Christian organizations oppose it, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, Integrity Uganda, Exodus International, Accepting Evangelicals, Changing Attitude, Courage, Ekklesia, Fulcrum, Inclusive Church and the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement. Exodus International sent a letter to President Museveni stating, “The Christian church … must be permitted to extend the love and compassion of Christ to all. We believe that this legislation would make this mission a difficult if not impossible task to carry out.”[71] A group of U.S. Christian leaders have released a statement to Uganda about the bill, one of these leaders being Thomas Patrick Melady, former U.S. Ambassador to Uganda.[72] The Anglican Reverend Canon Gideon Byamugisha said that the Bill “would become state-legislated genocide”.[73]”
Show me a large evangelical organization supporting something like this. Assemblies of God, Southern Baptist convention? No way.
Why be dishonest about it? Why use some fringe Wesboro type groups to support such fallacious claim that Christians are responsible for fanning this?
Regarding the burning video, it is interesting I have seen the exact video with the caption of Christians being the burned. Which one is true?
I encourage you to read and cite reputable news sources.
Anyways, lets stop this rabbit trail because it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Hey IA.
Above you stated: “Name one prophecy for which we have evidence?” I think Delight gave you a wonderful example in Psalm 22.
When I was in college, I studied the Assyrian “Empire.” In the small book of Nahum, the prophet gives 4 specific prophecies concerning the coming destruction of that nation. They had listened to Jonah, but now they had returned to their own ways and God used Nahum to pronounce how they would be overtaken. Nineveh, a seemingly impenetrable city, was to be taken.
I was able to pin the prophecy down to a date before the events that eventually occurred. Nahum nailed all 4 exactly as they are stated. He was a true prophet of God. True prophets of God are correct 100% of the time. There are hundreds of such prophecies in the Bible and the majority have been fulfilled just as promised. There are a few left. I’m not going to tell you what to think, but I will tell you what I believe.
I believe that one day you will recognize Jesus as Lord. The Bible says that “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”
Do I believe in God only because of Biblical prophecy? No, there a many other reasons. Christianity stands apart from all other “belief systems.” We are saved by grace, not by our good works. Good works are only an extension of our faith. From the sound of it you already know all of this. But I think it must be noted that all other faiths are works oriented. One has to work their way to heaven, or nirvana, or whatever.
The Bible has been criticized, scrutinized, doubted, etc since the beginning. Yet, it stands still as much as an attempt has been made to destroy it. The Bible says that God’s Word will never pass away.
These are the things that most Christians believe as you probably know. You have walked away from a God who loves you. I won’t tell you what to think, I’m just sad that you believe what you do.
The atheist statement of faith
By Steve Turner
Steve Turner
Posted on 6/28/2009 5:46:46 AM by daniel1212
We believe in Marx, Freud,and Darwin We believe everything is OK as long as you don’t hurt anyone to the best of your definition of hurt, and to the best of your knowledge.
We believe in sex before, during, and after marriage. We believe in the therapy of sin. We believe that adultery is fun. We believe that sodomy’s OK. We believe that taboos are taboo.
We believe that everything’s getting better despite evidence to the contrary. The evidence must be investigated And you can prove anything with evidence.
We believe there’s something in horoscopes UFO’s and bent spoons. Jesus was a good man just like Buddha, Muhammed, and ourselves. He was a good moral teacher though we think His good morals were bad.
We believe that all religions are basically the same-at least the one that we read was. They all believe in love and goodness. They only differ on matters of creation, sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.
We believe that after death comes the Nothing Because when you ask the dead what happens they say nothing. If death is not the end, if the dead have lied, then its compulsory heaven for all excepting perhaps Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Kahn
We believe in Masters and Johnson What’s selected is average. What’s average is normal. What’s normal is good.
We believe in total disarmament. We believe there are direct links between warfare and bloodshed. Americans should beat their guns into tractors. And the Russians would be sure to follow.
We believe that man is essentially good. It’s only his behavior that lets him down. This is the fault of society. Society is the fault of conditions. Conditions are the fault of society.
We believe that each man must find the truth that is right for him. Reality will adapt accordingly. The universe will readjust. History will alter. We believe that there is no absolute truth excepting the truth that there is no absolute truth.
We believe in the rejection of creeds, And the flowering of individual thought.
If chance be the Father of all flesh, disaster is his rainbow in the sky and when you hear
State of Emergency! Sniper Kills Ten! Troops on Rampage! Whites go Looting! Bomb Blasts School! It is but the sound of man worshiping his maker.
A true atheist would not bother arguing against something that doesn’t exist.
I would not argue much against Santa, or the Easter bunny.
You guys are not atheist. You know there is a God…. that’s why you argue against him so vehemently… you are just playing Russian roulette… eventually the real bullet will get you….good luck…hopefully is later rather than earlier…
A question for the atheists
Is what happens in this 5 second video wrong? According to your faith, it shouldn’t be. The prime products of the atheist faith , Stalin, Ceausescu, Hitler, Mao were consistent with the atheist faith , they didn’t think it to wrong.
How about you?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=765347283493925&id=100000559827658&_rdr
Ignostic atheists
The reason evolution is considered to be “right”, is because for 150 years people have been trying to prove it wrong, and with every failure to do so, the stakes go up”
Lol… there is no way you can prove it wrong… you guys change it every year…..what was true last year is no longer true this year….
Kind of pathetic arguments on your post … circular reasoning at best,
I like this one:
“Now, why would Comfort ask a question like that? Any biologist that you asked to provide evidence of one animal evolving into a completely different animal within a human lifetime would laugh at you. ”
How about some bones? Fossils? Maybe a tooth?
Pathetic response..Really… .. that was the best you can come up with?
You mean to tell me that you are so steeped in the Truth of creationism that you can’t discriminate between fine tuning a theory and binning it? Please tell me when it was that genetic variation over time was true one year and was not the next.
The scientists Comfort was talking to would have been happy to point out the new transitional fossils that are found year after year, but he was specific and adamant about having that change of “kinds” revealed within a human lifetime, a request which, if such an occurrence existed in the form Comfort desires, would be evidence against evolution. Essentially, he was asking Biologists to please prove evolution wrong (via a confusing, undefined “kind”), and then stating that their inability to do so proves evolution wrong, while videotaping their confused attempts to make sense of what he was asking in the first place. But it’s not like Comfort doesn’t know these things – he’s had it explained to him over and again. So while it’s fun to think of him as just stupid like anyone else, the man is a willfully misleading charlatan.
Pathetic response..Really… .. that was the best you can come up with?
My proposal is this: There is nothing an athiest can do to believe in God. All human flesh by nature is in rebellion to their Creator because of their transgression.
They suppress the knowledge of the Truth and do not want to deal with it.
What would it take? It would take an act of Mercy on God’s part in regeneration, the power of God. Men by nature hate God and will not love Him as they are in love with their sin.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Yes, indeed! They suppress the truth and then they mock believers. John 3:18 stands out particularly.
Welcome here.
Christian persecution complex in action, wow. Yes, we look around and your “truth” is suppressed everywhere. No Christian books are printed, no Christian blogs exists, etc.
Face reality, nothing is “suppressed”. You only don’t get taken seriously because you take your “science” from a stone age tribe from more than 2.000 years ago.
What say you about the the three articles I wrote about science found in the Bible, here:
https://delightintruth.com/medicine/
“Shoehorning”.
Not sure what you mean about Christian persecution, whether you mean that in the U.S. or worldwide. But there is plenty out there. http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/10/29/9-things-you-should-know-about-persecution-of-christians-in-2013/
Yeah, the poor, persecuted, white, privileged majority in the US that gets persecuted by that minority bastards. Horrible. Losing your privileges is NOT persecution.
Worldwide? Sure, there is persecution going on. Christians are persecuted by muslims. Muslins by Christians. Budhists by Muslims. Christians by Budhists. etc.etc.etc. And, in North Korea, also by the government. But things get better – for Christians. In Russia, nowadays Christian do the persecution (of gay people) again.
At least the article treats the number 100.000 with care – and correctly so, because that number is very funny: It includes the deaths from the congo civil war – where CHRISTIANS FOUGHT CHRISTIANS.
That is SO true – no one ever mocks other religions! Like duh, doesn’t that tell the world something!
Exactly. Call it Spiritual Warfare.