Joyce Meyer and Unsound Doctrine

Unsound doctrine may be a soft statement. Her teaching is in the realm of heresy.

The popular 70-year-old Charismatic speaker and author holds to prosperity teaching which focuses on material wealth as a result of God’s blessing for authentic Christians.  Even though such teaching is wrong, this is not the worst of Meyer’s teaching.

Joyce Meyer holds heretical positions with respect to the person of Jesus and His work towards our salvation.

It is a shame when a leftist news site like Huffington Post publishes a piece (with references) on how heretical Meyer’s teaching is when compared to historical Protestant Christianity.

She teaches that Jesus literally stopped being the Son of God on the Cross:

“He could have helped himself up until the point where he said I commend my spirit into your hands, at that point he couldn’t do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.”

The truth is that Jesus Christ was, is and always will be God.  Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”  He does not change.  Ever.

Apostle Paul explains that Jesus continued to be God throughout the entire sacrifice on the cross, even His death: “…Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” Phil 2:6-8

She teaches that Jesus had to be born again (like a sinner):

“The minute that blood sacrifice was accepted Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again. Now that was real it happened when he was in hell.”

This is impossible.   Jesus could not have been born again.  John 3 explains that the new birth is necessary to enter the kingdom of God.  Jesus did not need a new birth because He was without sin.  John says: “You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.” 1 John 3:5

She teaches that one needs special revelation from God to understand her teaching, revelation which is NOT found in the Bible

“The Bible can’t even find any way to explain this. Not really. That’s why you’ve got to get it by revelation. There are no words to explain what I’m telling you. I’ve got to just trust God that He’s putting it into your spirit like He put it into mine.”

The Bible is clear with respect to testing any revelation, prophecy or teaching against the Bible itself.  There is no revelation that can supersede the Bible.  The Word of God is the ultimate revelation for us (Heb 1:1, 1 Thes 5:21, 2 Tim 3:16).

Delight in Truth has nothing personal against Joyce Meyer, but false teaching must be exposed in order to protect the church.  You can read more in the Huff post article.

Then there is the prosperity gospel… a critique of that on a different occasion.

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61 comments on “Joyce Meyer and Unsound Doctrine

  1. Delight, a very necessary post, thanks! I have posted something at TNP regarding Joyce Meyer for you to reblog if it is helpful. Mike is happy for his efforts to be of service to the Body of Christ!

    Joyce was my first foray back into ‘active’ faith. I am not sure I ever even heard what she was teaching, I just found her TV show entertaining while I ironed, and liked her ‘call it like it is’ attitude. But strangely, like all false teachings,(I have since found) I never actually understood what I was supposed to do as her teachings didn’t really make sense. Speaking words of affirmation into the universe was exactly what I had learned from Anthony Robbins only a few short years before. No wonder she was such a painless transition…there wasn’t one! God seems to have blessed me with a rather common sense view of life (well, okay…at times), so even in the midst of my rebellion, I could never accept that talking to my Visa card and commanding it to be paid off was going to work. Nor did I think putting a picture of a fancy house on my fridge and telling myself everyday that that was my house would work. Oh, me of little faith…

    Anyway, eventually I realized that part of why those teachings didn’t appeal to me was because I didn’t want a fancy car, house or platinum Visa card. The Holy Spirit has a funny way of doing that to us, doesn’t he? :-).

    • You are so right… these self help speakers are not far removed from Anthony Robbins. But it really bothers me that they have to go and make theological statements in their speeches. And Meyer is getting into Christology and has no clue what she is talking about when she is discussing the Person of Christ.

      I am glad you are on the ‘straight and narrow’ 🙂 the narrow path 🙂

  2. Hi Delight.

    I hope all is well with you and yours.

    Keith Thompson, a brilliant young documentary maker, has covered Joyce Meyer along with others in the “Word of Faith” movement. His film is a constant in the top 10 on my blog. It’s a bit lengthy, but one can move to the parts with Mrs. Meyer in them if so desired. Keith covers each topic that you have here. A few of your readers may wish to check it out:

    Thanks for tackling one of the most popular preachers of our time.

    God’s blessings…

    P.S. Since Jesus had no place to lay his head, if we could speak into existence anything we so desired, wouldn’t it be a life like His?

  3. Dear Chris… I agree that she teaches some off the wall stuff, but who doesnt?! Take for instance the false Romanian doctrine on water baptism–we call it covenant with God (among other heretical things we say about water baptism–I would even call it blasphemy if you really think about it), when in reality it is the farthest thing from the truth. There is only one covenant, in the blood and that is made by Jesus, not by us. it may not seem like much but the reason the Romanian doctrine calls water baptism a covenant is because we still incorrectly believe that Christianity is about us and about what we bring to the table when in fact it’s about Him and what He did for us, not what we do for Him. In fact, this is the major difference between Christianity and all other religions–we glory in Him ONLY…the rest of religions (including Romanian Christianity) keeps boasting about how much WE do once we come to God or in order to come to God. Are we still saved? Surely! Because of Grace, not because of our correct doctrine..

    • Welcome back Val!

      So… In order to illustrate let me do this…

      If the baptism covenant thing is a handgun, then saying that Jesus ceased to be God on the cross is Hiroshima bomb x1000!

      One is wrong, the other is the worst kind of heresy… Big difference.

    • Val… I bet if you ask any Romanian pastor if the water baptism saves you , they will definitely answer you no.
      Now, they use the water baptism as a covenant in the sense that you publicly declare that you are a Christian and you will follow Jesus for the rest of your life. Nothing wrong with that.
      Nice try to defend the heretical charismatic by trying to drag others in the same ditch 🙂

      • Gabe,
        Not defending anyone here…just showing how heretical we are too…it doesnt bother you because you grew up with your heresey on water baptism and it doesnt seem so bad… Water baptism has nothing to do with public declaration or commitment to follow Christ (these are 2 other heresies totally embraced by the church)…As for salvation, you know that one cannot have communion until they are baptised….you tell me why–because they dont believe you belong to Christ unless baptised…Yet, they keep you unbaptised for month-sometimes years (another heresy) for (heretical) reasons I dont want to mention now. One gets baptized because he believes, period–there should be no commitments at baptisms and no questions asked other than–Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God with all your heart?– and you get baptized in order to put the old man in the grave so you can live a new life…Funny, the romanians make you live the new life first (to prove you are a christian) than they baptise you if you are worthy…HERESIES, my friend, but they are the Romanian kind so they pass our tests 🙂
        Point is,

        • Actually Val, the church in the first and second century used to keep the new converts up to 3 years until they baptised them.
          The baptism is an external sign of an internal transformation.
          If you are not born again you shouldn’t get baptised.
          But here we have to go into what the church understood by “born again” … and it is not what today’s Christians think it is… actually Romanians are closer to the right doctrine than most of the modern Christians.
          In their minds anybody that acknowledges an historic fact (the death and the resurrection ) is automatically a Christian…
          Right… in their dreams… l no wonder that only 3 percent of the Billy Graham Christians hold on to their initial confession

        • I thought the Bible was our guide, not the Christians of the 1st and 2nd century… and nowhere in the Bible, did anyone ever wait until the next day to be baptized, let alone 3 yrs

        • Val.. the bible talk about the new birth… depends how you view that process you view the baptism… if the confession proves the new birth, than you are right, dunk then immediately, but if the the new birth is a holy spirit transformation of the human heart, than the approach will change from one act with no meaning in most cases to a sign of the death and the birth of a true Christian. I bet they don’t teach that in your church 🙂 , cuts down in the numbers and insults the lay person

        • Gabi,
          what is important is how they did it in the Bible…my church, your church, 1st and 2nd century christians matter less or not at all.. it doesnt take 3 yrs to get born again…it’s instant for those /when believe

      • Gabe,
        BTW…don’t like JM—cant stand to even listen to her, honestly…so this has nothing to do defending’s about our seeing our own plank in our own eye….
        As a matter of fact, I dont follow or even listen to any of the prominant charismatic leaders in the US nor care about what they (don’t) do…I did post a Benny Hinn teaching (found on another blog) though because it’s super good and beneficial….someting you would never hear from our “holy” leaders

    • And I agree that it is getting harder to find men who know God’s well enough to give a balanced treatment of the law and gospel over several years. However, there are those who come nowhere close to the folks mentioned in this documentary.

      Who doesn’t? I could list 5 men in my town alone who don’t teach off the wall doctrines.

      I bet there is someone in your town too, Val, if you look hard enough.

        • Actually, I forgot the Romanian one, Val.

          We have over 1000 Romanians living in our community and I have met one of the two pastors. He was not afraid to stick his neck out and have his folks sign a petition dealing with a moral subject a few years back.

          I haven’t heard him preach, but I’ve talked with him enough to know that he is pretty sound doctrinally.

        • yes, but we all claim that….i’ve never heard a precher ever say “here, in this church/ministry we preach false doctrines, etc”. we all claim that we have/proclaim the truth, blah, blah, blah…

          One thing is for sure Chris…we are living in scary times when even the false prophets preach 75% (or even more) correct doctrine, but they slip in damning heresies–so we do have to be on the watch…Even though I have not really studied the Jesus Culture movement, one thing I did pick up is that one of the girls who leads worship dresses like and has the make up of a little devil….Apparently the music is good, but why the devilish look?!….My conclusion is to stay away from such things even though they might have some good stuff in it. Having said this, I don’t think the Romanian “legalists” are any better…They pose good from the pulpit, but when you know what they discuss in secret among themselves, it reminds me of the bunch from Ezechiel when he is taken up in the Spirit to see what the leaders of Israel do and plan secretly behind closed doors–abomination upon abomination.

        • I agree that false teachers slip false doctrine while covering it in apparently good teaching. There are bad examples everywhere. Concrete examples documented everywhere about the Toronto Blessing movement in the 90s for instance, the extreme manifestations, etc…

          I consider those very dangerous both theologically and practically. Romanian protestants are not perfect, but you will not see those kind of things in our churches. You will not see ‘glory clouds’ folks rolling on the floor, prosperity preaching…

  4. There is and has been a lot of this type of gross error. Far too many will not speak up from the Word of God against hertical for fear of being judgemental.

    I came across a statement by Irenaeus: Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked deformity, less being thus exposed, it should at once be detected. But it is craftily decked out in an attractive dress, so as, by its outward form, to make it appear to the inexperienced(ridiculous as the expression may seem) more true than truth itself.
    These folks spoken of here are way beyond this quote,to the point that they seem belligerent.

  5. Chris and Gabi,
    I would like you two to listen to this message and tell me how many heretical things this guy preaches (nelu din arizona) in his message on water baptism (I found about 10 at least)….I know he meant nothing bad by it intentionally, but nonetheless…Yet, no one screamed online via blogging about his misapplication of Scriptures concerning baptism.

    I’ll give u just one clue:
    ” If you do not know for how much money were Jesus and Joseph sold for, you don’t deserve to go to Heaven, therefore you should not be baptized. I told the people in my church–I will not baptize you unless you know this even if you don’t reelect me as your pastor.”

      • he might be a great guy, but his messge is off the wall. Even the good things he says, have nothing to do with water baptism…My point is,,,if you try to find fault, you’ll find it with anyone.

        PS–I just wonder, after his message, how many of the candidates thought to themselves: “I dont deserve to be baptized, but I am embarrassed to pull out now” or “this guys sucks and is a fanatic maniac, who cares of what he says!”

        PS–you did not answer my question though. How many off the wall things (not to say heretical) did he say in this message? 🙂

        FYI—even admited to me mustaceste ca a fost off the wall tipu…

        • and he said “you don’t deserve to be baptized and go to Heaven if you do not know….” you know the rest..not sure which one is worse.. Anyway, according to your logic, he is a heretic.. According to my logic, they are both off in their thinking…But, unfortunately, b/c he is romanian and “narrow” (never mind he is nuts) he is a good guy… He might be–I have a Jehova’s Witness neighbor who is a good guy too, but that is not the point..

      • Chris R,

        Val and Gabe and I have a long standing discussion on Romanian Church doctrinal issues. Most of our churches and pastors are very sound, but Val is critical with respect to certain issues he labels as legalistic. So that is the history, so that you know the background 🙂

        • Thanks Delight, and thanks for explaining what I meant by “sound” doctrine.

          I’m sure like in all denominations there are a few bad eggs in the Romanian church. It’s good to know that most are doctrinally sound.

          Since I have only met one Romanian pastor, I can’t rightly speak to the subject as it seems the three of you can.

          Fortunately, the local Romanian pastor speaks English. We have had a few good discussions.

          As to legalism, I think I understand it well enough to know that no pastor is perfect in this area. It is difficult to rightly divide the Word between law a gospel. I have a Pollyannaish view and tend to lean more towards the Gospel. 🙂

        • Chris, you r too kind concerning me 🙂 But, really, I think u r making too much of this issue with whether Jesus ceased or not to be the SOG for 5 seconds…He was forsaken after all. I don;t think this makes one a heretic, at worst–incorrect. All these prosperity preachers go wrong b/c they have commercialized the Gospel to the point they have fallen into the error of Balaam. But they are no different from the Romanian elites–they compromised with the commies to the point they became traitors. Today, they get so involved into politics (up to their ears) and are themselves so much into properity (mind you, not from the pulpit, but just watch how they live and where their hearts are. I kid u not, most Romanian Christians I’ve ever met in the US are nuts after prosperity, money is all they talk about. As a matter of fact, the way Romanian preachers “evangelize” in the US, they call members of other churches in other States and lures them with jobs and the great economy in their State–shameful, really shameful!). So, the principal is the same–cheating to win or survive… whether the American prosperity preachers or the Romanian counterparts. David Wilkerson proved to us all that you do not have to commercialize the Gospel in order to do great things at a global level… Unfortunately, not all have that faith. He proved that one man (if called by God and faithful to His calling) needs not either kiss up to anyone (not even to those in high positions in big denominations) nor does he have to cheat or pull the wool over anyone’s eyes in order to fulfill his mandate from God….Problem is too many preachers just want a piece of the pie (whether from God or not) and that definitely includes our Romanian counterparts, my friend… Other than that, I judge one one and condemn no one…

        • Because I know our churches well, I can say that there is an element of running and gunning after material possessions. But I would 100% disagree that it is done on theological grounds, ie the prosperity gospel. Most of them detest that teaching.

          These folks were dirt poor when they came to the States in the 70s and 80s, and they had to work extremely hard to put their kids through college and buy a house. A few have gone overboard, yes. But generally speaking most are hard workers who just want to provide well for their family. Exceptions noted.

        • As I said, not from the pulpit…but watch their lives–money,money, money; homes, big homes;investments, investments, investments….Sorry, Apostle Paul had none of it….I dont think we are imitating him much… I think we imitate more these prosperity preachers, but we just say otherwise… 🙂 But in a prosperous country and so forth…do we really need to be poor? I’d say NO! but we should not sell our soul in order to get rich–nor should we even seek after riches…Sometimes, God just pours them on us so that we may be a blessing to the POOR.

  6. Hi Val.

    You wrote:

    ” I think u r making too much of this issue with whether Jesus ceased or not to be the SOG for 5 seconds…”

    Take this issue, which I disagree with strongly, and put it aside. There are too many other things wrong the the Word of Faith teachers to let them off of the “heretical” hook.

    A man who came into our parenting center was one of those 1,000 Romanians I mentioned above. His name is Vasile and he lays tile for a living. He is a hard working man who works many hours to feed his family. He did tell me that he is the least materialistic in his family.

    We live in a very materialistic society that has had an impact on almost every church.

    I agree that: ” we should not sell our soul in order to get rich–nor should we even seek after riches.”

    I say we start in the churches before we look elsewhere.

    God’s blessings…

  7. Chris,
    I agree with you…Good and bad is everywhere….the prosperity Gospel teachers, thankfully, do not represent American Christianity…Most American Christian live normal, humble lives (more so than Romanian Americans, I’d say)…pay taxes (and are proud to do so), give a lot of money to missions and go to the mission field themselves, and they speak well of others (I wish Romanians could learn that art). Most American Churches teach good doctrine, not extremism…What is lacking in the American church (and everywhere in the free world including the Romanian churches) is the true holiness and fire–we are not revived, but backslidden for the most part, but not so because of false teaching and not because of Joyce Myers, but because we are not real doers of the Word.
    My problem with the Romanian Christian critics is that they focus on a few American errrors, they never have anything good to say about America and/or American Christians, yet they all go to their school of theology (even our theological schools in Romania study American/English theologians only), they often get to meet in the American Church’s buildings for free or at very little cost, we sing their songs, etc, yet we have nothing good to say, we never post a single good article or video clip of an American church/preacher (although there are plenty of them). And they do all that out of ignorance (I cannot tell you how many Romanian Christians in the US have lived here 20+ years, but they’ve never had an American friend (don’t even want one), they’ve hardly (if ever, especially preachers) gone to an American church–they only “know” American Christianity from afar–from video clips posted by ignoramuses, hateful critics– yet they have a big mouth in accusing the Americans, because they know it makes them popular among the Romanian “narrow” Christianity (Not talking about you, Chris P–you do it because you have to help the Romanians out, lol). And they do all these primarily to keep the Romanians in their Romanian churches (which by the way, for the most part, are full of internal conflicts and works of the flesh from Gal Ch 5) which they themselves don/t like for the most part, but want you there anyway–that I really don’t understand! I lived among Americans for 25 yrs and I can say objectively that I find them much easier to deal with and be around. By this I am not suggesting that there are no good Romanian Christians or churches, because there are–I know some of them…But all this fault finding with everything American is hogwash (in my humble opinion) and it’s not helping anyone. I would like to see a little fairness in the way we judge and condemn–we should first start with ourselves (our lives, church, denominations, culture, etc) then (if time permits–I truly doubt it) speak of others… 🙂

    PS–Here is the difference (in my opinion) between David Wilkerson criticizing the prosperity charismatic movement and their big names and the Romanian average critic–whether pastor or otherwise: If any of these “buffoons” (as the Romanian call them) would ever come to these critics and offer them a good sum of money–let/s say, in the name of the Lord or whatever), D.W. would categorically refuse them whereas the Romanians would accept it…

    • Val, you’re really stretching it here. Gal 5 list of works of the flesh? That is bad stuff… No “American” friends? Come on.

      I can fault the Rom conservative churches on one ground: legalism and an APPARENT works system. I say apparent because it looks like that on the surface.

      But almost every bad practice and wrong theology that many have adopted in the last 25 years has come from the west. Prosperity, shallow worship, hopping and dancing, divorce, etc.

      Won’t be long before our churches will go charismatic in the bad sense si sa se tavaleasca pe jos la worship….

      • I was referring to the middle section of works of the flesh–arguing, dissensions, backbiting, etc…sorry for the confusion….
        Yes, Romanian churches and culture do have some beautiful things they are losing, but so do the Americans…

        • How is water baptism “bad” ? Many American churches that I have attended also do this. Yet the Romanian churches are faulty because of this? Im confused. How are potential baptism candidates unworthy? I understand the whole ‘we are not worthy of thee’ but God wants us to be like Jesus no? Jesus was baptized. So if I am trying to turn my life around to Jesus and the next step for me is to get baptized but wait… what if I’m not worthy? Do you get what I’m saying? We could go on our whole existence wondering whether we will ever be good enough. I believe that doubt is something the devil puts in our head to stop us from going forward, achieving what may be unattainable for others. Unless I totally misunderstood the point you were trying to make, I don’t think we should put all Romanians in one big pot when it’s not just them doing it. Put aside the nationalities, people are all the same. I live in the south and a Romanian church is hard to come by (1 in the whole state) so I’ve had my share of American churches. I enjoy both.
          About Joyce Meyer, well, not everyone is perfect and neither are her sermons. I honestly don’t think she should be preaching at all but we live in a free country. 🙂 I know I wouldn’t want my kids learning the bible from her. I do know alot of christians who look up to her and it’s a shame because her sermons are very diluted. Joel Osteen falls into the same category. Sir, just state it like it is: homosexuality is a sin!

    • Val, that might be your opinion about the American Christianity… here is an American talking about the American Christianity and the Romanian and the eastern Europe Christianity

      Paul Washer:
      People so many times come up to me and say, “Oh, I’d love to follow you into Romania”; “I’d love to follow you into the Ukraine”; “I’d love to preach where you preached and planted churches in Peru in the jungle.”And I tell them, “No, you wouldn’t.”They say, “Yes, I would.”I say, “No, you wouldn’t.”“Why?”“Because you’d be excommunicated from the church down there.”

      • Gabe,
        Those might the the Christians in his circles–I cannot speak for those—In America one can find just about everything–too bad he chooses to surround himself with such poor Christians; but, even so, those he claim would get excommunicated in Peru, pay his bills to go to Peru and Romanai…Haven’t been to Peru, but been to Romania and Eastern Europe–not quality Christianity…As I said many times before, PW is an unfair assessor of spiritual reality–he sides with those who take advantage of him financially (kind of like the Corinthians) in those poor countries and criticizes the hands that feed him…I dont care much for Paul Washer because of that very reason.

        PS– You keep quoting PW as if he was infallible or something…I told you before–he represents just an opinion (and a very slanted, biased one), nothing more. And BTW, I am American too in that regard—got saved in an American church, went to American Churches (lots of them,probably hundreds–in the US alone–in about 25 to 30 different States) or the last 23 yrs..been to Canada, Australia and most of Europe–Eastern and Western…I’ve done everything from house to house to street, tents and pulpit ministry; so, I beg to differ with him on the subject. Maybe I’ll have him come with me so he can see a different side of things, but I doubt he would wanna see the other sides of American Christianity–his negative view made him “famous” (at least with the Romanian legalists) and keeps him in business, so why would he change

        • Val, chill out, Paul Washer is not criticising the entire Christian community in the states, only the main streamers that you see on tv and sounds like you love and adore. He comes from a puritanical prospective when it comes to Christianity, something the modern Christian is not used to…
          You can see the ditch this country is in, even though there are almost 400 000 churches in this country.
          A church with no power whatsoever, a church that it’s no different on Sunday than the Woodstock crowd in the 60s…
          A church that besides the liberalism

        • that is where you’re getting it wrong, pal; i dont watch nor adore any of the TV guys…in addtion, I dont like the Romanian churches in the US either (I think while the TV guys preach and live prosperity, the Romanian crowd just lives it) that you and Chris praise and defend so much 🙂

        • Promoted by the protestant churches had to deal with the new charismatics that are going and spreading like a cancer all over the world

  8. You are off. Read 1 Jn 3:8.9.10 he/she who sins is of the devil.And doesnt know God. And you say he was still God when He was on the cross… I AGREE WITH JOYCY MEYERS… She isnt off at all.

    >________________________________ > From: Delight in Truth >To: >Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 7:25 AM >Subject: [New post] Joyce Meyer and Unsound Doctrine > > > > >Delight in Truth posted: ” Unsound doctrine may be a soft statement. Her teaching is in the realm of heresy. The popular 70-year-old Charismatic speaker and author holds to prosperity teaching which focuses on material wealth as a result of God’s blessing for authentic Chris” >

    • Of course Jesus was still God while crucified. If He lost His divine nature at any point, He would not have been able to atone for sin.

      There are a multitude of verses attesting that He was without sin all along.

      Hebrews 4:15
      For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

      2 Corinthians 5:21
      For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God

      1 Peter 2:22
      He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.

      1 John 3:5
      You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin

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