Apr 6 2016

Baby Ezekiel Has Been Freed!

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After 4.5 months of forced placement in a foster home, on the day he turned 8 months old, Ezekiel Bodnariu was released to his parents.

What sense is there in keeping the other Bodnariu children from coming home?

Pavla Jansova wrote eloquently:

“Baby Ezekiel will return home. The judge should not make such a decision, unless he(she) was completely sure, that the baby is completely safe at home. If the most vulnerable member of the family is safe, then all the other children are safe as well. From that reason it is clear, that there were no reasons for taking the children away the way CPS did and isolating the girls for months, isolating the siblings from each other and other family members and causing a huge trauma on the whole family.
I am very curious what official reason will be for returning the baby, increasing visit to the boys, but not to the girls and not returning 4 out of 5 children. There is no common sense.”

There is not much common sense with Barnevernet

152 comments on “Baby Ezekiel Has Been Freed!”

      • Your hard work is not in vain, Marianne. All the years of energy invested in your cause is beginning to bear tangible fruit. What you have started in Norway has now become a global movement.

        Reply

        • Mrs. Skånland have not been a part of this decision in Tingretten. She is still a nobody in Norway as this movement of chronic CPS haters. The global movement come of the Christian referance mistanke done in the start of the Bodnariu campaign.

        • She has no impact outside the hard core CPS haters, I am sorry to tell you this over and over again – it’s the truth – Mr. Prunean – and … we as Christian shall not listen to … but you hold her hand as you were brothers in arms withour reflecting what you promote.

        •   
          Delight: “What you have started in Norway has now become a global movement.”

          I truly did not start it. When I discovered this, there were already families and little groups who had worked like beavers for several years, back in the 1980s as well as later. Very courageous and hard-working, and sensible too. In different parts of the country, actually! Although I had some trouble finding them at the beginning (there was no internet search possibility then), they sometimes succeeded in getting a little article into some newspaper, and one thing/person leads to another.

          Some of them wrote things, others invited little groups of bereaved families to gatherings, wrote summaries, paid for little ads in the papers – ads saying they existed; some helped new victims find lawyers (many victims were helplessly “managed” by the CPS who recommended them to “choose a lawyer from this list”.) Some of these early workers even travelled around, at their own expense, to visit desperate, devastated people who did not know where to turn.

        • Knut, it is obvious, that you disregard Marianne. She was here before we all even knew about Barnevernet. She was here long before the Bodnariu children were taken as well as the children of Eva M.. I am sure, she did not wake up one day thinking..from now on I am going to fight against the CPS just like that. She knows many families, she knows the files and she has seen injustice against the families. Actually its admirable that she has spoken out when the majority of Norwegians had full trust of the system. It takes a lot to support victims that don’t find much support elsewhere and are denounced.

      • It’s good sign that Knut Nygaard is pissed off. I sense a complex of inferiority in his tone when he states that an emeritus professor is “nobody”. On the other hand, it reflects how Barnevernet’ employees relate to other citizens. Ms Skanland is criticizing a system that can be changed whereas this propagandist attacks the person. Your battle is lost, Knut. There are more and more Norwegians that support our cause. I feel pity for you since you put all your trust in a system that is sinking.

        Reply

        • There is no battle – this movement and this anguage professor is not interfering with our work for the best of children and families. No one listen to this language professor in Norway – she is a nobody.

          She produced in 1995 her maistro work about us as Dr. Mengele – she uses her language to make the distance to criticism that maybe could have been taken serious if she had managed to use a language of another kind. She is the propaganda producent of a disconnecting language taken us to nazism, communism and fascism. What’s going on inside this woman – I really don’t know.

          http://www.mhskanland.net/page2/page40/page40.html

          I have tried – as foremost a Christian – to talk you to senses about the CPS in Norway and the work we do – for your own sake – not mine. We – as Christians – should know what we are using our time and efforts on – what Mission that we are on. Mr. Prunean has chosen this language professor as his cooperative friend to a battle against something that he don’t know anything about and therfore listens to anything coming from this Mengele producer. We – as Christians – should be very careful to what we take in as Truth – Mr, Prunean don’t bother because no there is a Romenian family at stake. He has become an activist and is in the pockets of Dr, Mengele. Truth is no longer important – the Battle is – but we are not battling on thje same field as this language professor – we are battling with our cases – to the best for children and families.

        • Knut, again I must remind to stop personal atacks against the professor. Attack the argument, not the person!

          The entire social media is crying out against bv! This is a very LARGE movement!

          Please tell your supervisors, but I think they already know what is going on…

        •   
          Readers who do not master Norwegian do not have to wonder about what is in the article Mr Nygaard refers to; it exists in English as well:
          “Dr Mengele & co in action in Norwegian homes?”
          http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page103/page103.html

          At the time, the Christian newspaper in Bergen, Dagen, had a different editor from today’s more politically correct Mr Vebjørn Selbekk, and they actually printed it.

          I am charmed to see that it has a status of being some kind of a “masterwork”! If that is the epitome of what I have written, no doubt that shows how “low” I am. Well, the families whom Mr Nygaard claims the CPS helps, but who want nothing to do with them or him, are probably “publicans and sinners” in his judgment also. We know who was content to associate with such people.

  2. The Bodnariu organization use the word “judge”. Do they know in what position this judge were doing his judgement? If it was done in the County Comitee ot in Tingretten? Do the organization have any idea of what’s going on right now? Are the parents undergoing this examination done by a neutral? Is the rest of the children on hold to a court session in the month of May – or is it possible that the remaining children are coming homing and working together with the local CPS on a help measure level?

    Reply

  3. Pavla – I can understand the emotions attached to any CPS in the world, but I think you understand that a society must have a service to help the children and their families. We live in days when the CPS is more in a situation where we can’t cope in
    a proper way with all the concerns arriving – the responsibility for the right help measures to the right families – the resonsibility for those in our care/they shall of cause get a better daily life in our care than in the history that led up to the conclusion done by the County Commitee. In our sociiety there are some services that some people react to – police, security, those in public services that have a link to the CPS a.s.o., but most of the society have not that fear or reaction. There is nothing to be afraid of. But … we have all seen movies and documentaries of people being accused of something they have not done … or as we watched on weekend – “Fruitvale station” – being killed for nothing by a man in uniform. This is the real version.

    At the same time we understand the need of these men in uniform – we also think they must get armed to protect themselves and us – and some – more than others – think that its up to them to protect their family. I think the most of us will do our outmost if that situation occur. These acitivsts – like Skånland and Reikerås – they don’t have a clue of what they will have put instead of the CPS if the revolution of some sort would have happened sometime in the future. Of cause you must fight for each case and try to alter the conclusion, but you have no influence of the change going on in the CPS. From 01.04 we got more power to force help measures on people. I’m more fond of the old method – to sell them in. We shall as municipal CPS for the future be the responsible for the foster homes – find them if possible in the known for the child relations and in an area where the child have a chance to uphold its daily activities most as before the removal.

    I don’t know more than you – it’s the Bodnariu organization that is the messenger – a general consideration is that children taken on emergency are returned when its considered safe – no danger for life and health. I don’t know what the parents do for the moment – if their undergo this examination and there is a case to be held in the month of May, but I think this is good news and as I have said some months now – my guess is that they get reunited with a set of help measures to be done.

    I found an article in Firda that I think is quite good
    http://www.firda.no/synspunkt/barnevern/helse/barn-lever-og-ofte-i-hard-ver/o/5-15-199549

    Demonstration and a possible impact on a judge’s decision is not to be legally right according to common rule of law. I don’t think that is the question here. It would in that case be legally unfair – some children get a rally support and the case turns – the supporters think this come out of their doing – another family haven’t any supporters and that family thinks that their case is not turned because not the whole world helped us – only the chosen ones a,s,o. You are of cause supporters only and have no – not an inch – impact on the legally done decisions – if done – its just below the corruption standard. I think Horne is aware of this Naustdal case, but the Government and the Storting as a whole have other cases on their manual. You can’t handle a CPS or for that case any department working with people without getting some negative responses, hurt feelings and in some cases strong emotional problems. We humans are not perfect, but we all ( my guess) try to do our best. You may call it injustice – I have used the fish and bird picture – on the other hand you can read in the Firda article about a 7 month old baby dying some days after the CPS’s last visit – in that case the CPS should have taken the care of the baby – and the baby might have lived today. We are all glad the judge found it safe for Ezekiel to come home. The Child welfare act has the best for the child focusing and that might in some cases be something else than what the parents think. You can’t place children who are in the care of CPS on an investigating level in the near relations if the placement is done out of a received and confirmed by children violence and sexual abuse sort of case. The changes in our CPS come from the new situation we have in Europe and Norway. We are now a multicultural nation and we in the CPS have understood that with the newcomers follows a lot of work that we must try our best to follow up according to the law and the changes coming. I hope we will mangage to secure the nearby solutions in the same way we manage with professional fosterhomes – the CPS can’t give children to possible abusers and done histoically. We had f.i. Lommemannen – the Pocet Man – a sexual child abuser working with some measues for the CPS some decades ago. We have scientific work done and a lot of appointed advisers that do the work and gives the finished work to Horne for further consideration. What happens on the internet and in the footsteps of chronic CPS.- haters are out of interst – but of cause – some like to think that way and some I think make a living out of it.

    Reply

    • Bodnariu does not need a help measure. Barnevernet needs reform!

      Do you see how schizophrenic the current state of affairs is? They let the baby go home, but not the others! Illogical!

      It is time to recommend the Bodnariu family to leave Norway as soon as they get their children back.

      The risk of confiscation is too high with current Barnevernet practice.

      Knut, you work for an evil, illogical, unethical, anti-Biblical system.

      Reply

      • It’s not for you to decide. As I have told you a couple of times – you and this activist movement are not a legal part of any case or decision ongoing in Norway. You have – as I have told you – the same system in your own backyard.

        Reply

        • I agree we have problems here as well. I also agree that we are not part of the legal case. But you cannot underestimate the power of persuasion by protest!

          Read in your Bible Luke ch 18, about the unrighteous judge who was persuaded by the poor widow by her insistance.

        •   
          Why this intense insistance that “you have no say and you do not matter”, I wonder? Certainly every grown-up person knows without being told that he/she does not direct the courts. One does not need kindergarten instructions, but the CPS are used to instructing their victims high-handedly in this way, never entering into deeper issues. That the public being seriously engaged in such cases does not matter, is of course a common opinion among CPS people. As long as they are as protected as I am sure Securitate was, they are certainly right. At least as worldly rewards go.

        • I am glad at least you admit Barnevernet is an evil system so you as christian should stop working in there imediatelly!

        • Knut, we agree that a Child Protective Service is needed in every country for children that are really abused. However, Barnevernet is not a protective service, it became a poaching service. No country needs a service that protects some children but at the same time confiscate children from loving families and expose them to high risk factors in Foster Homes. You don’t need a surgeon that save some people’s lives but at the same time purposely kills other people. In order to be a murderer you don’t have to kill all the people you get in contact with. How many people does a person have to kill in order to be convicted as a murdered in Norway?
          How many innocent families does Barnevernet have to destroy in order to be considered a “poaching service”?

        • What’s going around is coming around and what is not from God won’t stand. The evildoers won’t find rest when the oppressed are asking for justice. What Barnevernet is doing is out of ordinary. It is evil. Many kingdoms in power ended in ruins. Use wisdom and correct your way or go ahead for your peril. Is the law that govern the world from inception and nobody can prevent the fall without repentance and correction. Children need the protection as much is possible inside the family. Help them, don’t enjoy destroying the nucleus of your society. I see that the CPS doesn’t want to correct their actions fighting to maintain the old way playing conveniently as oppressors instead of servers. CPS mean Children Protection SERVICE not Children Poaching System. Be what you claim not what is convenient.

        • Marianne, I have heard from a grandfather about, how he was instructed by CPS on how to talk to his own grandchildren.

          Of course he was not allowed to speak Czech, so the conversation was done via translator. That the translator had a bad knowledge of Czech and another time it was Polish – Norwegian translator was obviously not important..
          When the grandfather started to talk about the children’s cousin, or about holidays in Czechia, he was stopped. Just the idea, that you can meet children and in the meanwhile there are CPS workers who observe the interaction and make notes.. gives me shivers.

          Another story in the media, when grandmother asks, why she can not meet her grandchildren. She was only allowed 4 times a year visitation. Once she has met her grandchild by chance and gave him a hug and bought ice cream. The grandchild was in company of his foster mother. Next time the grandmother got notice from CPS, that this is not desirable. She should have just say hi to her grandchild and walk away..She rightfully asks, who are these people, do they know something about psychology? I will never act like that to my own grandchildren..I wonder as well..

    • Mr, Nygaard, is it me, or are you more vitriolic today? I hope you are not disappointed, but rather rejoice with all of us that baby Ezekiel is where he belongs, with his parents. I personally cried tears of joy. I pray the other children come home without delay!

      Reply

      • No, this was not unexpected and if you have read some of my comments for the last two months my guess without knowing more than I read in the Costea version was that the children come home with a set of help measures to be implemented. I as you others think this should be done months ago.

        I’m not Superman, Diana – and maybe your right – that I should do something else today. I f.i. think of all the fear this movement stear up in people and if it’s right that Mr. Prunean is a doctor of some kind – I wonder how he can allow himself to be a part of this fear creating movement. I got this on my email today and I wonder – have Mr. Prunean forgotten the impact of fear on our body?

        I also got this on my email today and I wondered – why are supposed christians using the time and energy to fight against a CPS much the same as they have in their own backyard, when f.i. this is going on?
        http://secure.rodparsley.com/Order_First.aspx?ostr=wZHCnlR5fsI%3d&gl=1

        This was also on my mail today – I have as a born again a stand up for Israel whatever the cost be setting.
        http://www.cufi.org/site/Calendar/1157949064?view=RSVP&id=128559

        And this uplifter that I shall see now –

        Reply

        • Why are you preaching to us about spreading fear Knut? All this time, that is what Barnevernet has been doing. People like you – yes YOU – have been causing fear to families and now that the world has caught a sniff of the disgusting smell in Norway, you want to cry wolf?

          If you are Christian, as you keep throwing that finger around, then you would know we trust in God, that we do not worry or fear. But we also have the book of Proverbs that teaches us to be wise. We are spreading the news to all corners of the world because people MUST know what is happening and be vigilant.

          I personally think the only people afraid is you and your contaminated comrades within the CPS.

          Just because this blog is managed by Dr Prunean, do yourself a favour and have a look at the Visitor section, and there you will see the audience and the supporters. It is a disgrace that a 60 something year old person like you feels the need to attack someone through belittling their life work and titles which are hard earned.

          You think you are doing us favours by explaining things to us? You are completely deluded Knut. The only people that need preventative measures in the home is you and your comrades. Certainly not the Bodnariu family, not the Olsen family, not the Michalaková family, not the Nan family, not ANY of them.

          If you really want to do us any favours, you would leave us alone, because you are not convincing anyone. You have not converted ONE person to think you might be right and you never will. You are clearly in the sinking ship and your noise will soon be cries of shame because even God is against what you do. This is why He called us to Norway. Not to fight against the Bodnariu family, but to fight FOR them. And the many others.

        • No, you are in this because you are a relative. That’s quite ok. Of cause people are free to support anyone they feel for around the world. It’s quite all right to critisice public services and institutions – that has been done for decades.

          The new thing about this facebook movement is that its a free storytelling for the ones in need of telling their version of a story and create whatever truth the individual feel for. The movement is interesting because this is not quite the same as the Arab Spring, but the way it funcition is the same. Stear up as many as possible and create a movement to bring down ….. put in whatever you want … and then what? In this case the chornic CPS haters have no other answer than “something else” – and then again – everyone of us can put in their “else”. Rationality – truth – and real facts are disturbing elements in a movement like this. The propaganda ministry must have controll on their public and hates other voices than their own.

          Yes, there is some looking into the writing on the wall on this blog, but we all know that most of them are the same visitors coming again …. and again … and … again .. especially the commenting contributers as myself. Maybe a thousand total have visited this blog is my guess – and I’m good at guessing.

          It’s also interesting to understand that the religious persecution mentioning in the beginning of this organized international movement is not the reason for the emergency. But – the Christians – took the bait. Oh – my … there is Christian persecution going on in Norway. Then all the Romenian churches got involved … and so all the romenians that have left their families, their background and culture and moved to better destinations throughout the world. Yes, you are maybe around 20.000 total now – and had that been saved by your evangelism it had been a good result. Here it is 20.000 gone on lies about Norway, Norwegians and a functionate CPS. You find the same CPS in Chicago and in the backyards of these “oh my ….” people.

          No one is interested in what you are doing. Lunacy was the repsonse given in February – more lunacy – maybe now.

          This is not a mission from God. Our Mission from God is to preach the Gospel – not to follow chronic haters in their mission for “something else” in a country that is loved and honered throughout the world. Mrs, Mengele would have been tracked down living in the States – in Our surroundings she is a nobody and no Norwegians feel for listening to mockers either they are Language professors or foreigners – suppose christians no longer preaching the truth.

        • Cristina, Veronika Valachova was refering to Vibeke yes. I, in my previous post was referring to both Vibeke and Eva. Eva for working with children and raising a stepdaughter and not being able to see her son. I mean, does anyone see logic in that? I don’t, but obviously CPS will find reasons for doing that..If she is able to raise a stepdaughter and work with children, why such a strict limitation.

          About Vibeke, yes I trust people. I rather trust the parents who desperately want to get their children back. I think it shows that they care very much. Everything else can be solved otherwise.

        • Pavla – I have told you before the legal difference between being a mother ( you have legal rights) and a stepmother ( you have no legal rights). So – a mother can loose her case and still be the stepmother for the father she is living together with.

        • Knut the point is, if a mother is able to raise a (step) child, then she is not threat for that child. From that reason I don’t see, why she can not even see her children, or even better, get them back. Yes you also told me, that there is a reason why only 2 out of 4 children are returned..but I find it so unfair. How do these children must feel??? Have you thought about it?

        •   
          Mr Nygaard to Cristina: “No, you are in this because you are a relative.”

          Gives an inkling, maybe, of the general CPS opinion about relatives and the weight they give to their arguments, information and opinions. So many families are surprised that, when children are taken from parents, the CPS does not even inquire about the possibility of placing the children with other relatives, and are as inimical to the extended family as they are to parents. The reason is of course that the CPS wants to sever the children’s bonds with their family altogether. Their ideas of “attachment” will have it that children are like plants: if they are left undisturbed in the “new soil”, they will “attach to it” without complications. Every sign that the children do not do that, that they long for their own, is interpreted as a sign that the “old” family has “disturbed” them.

          So it is a regular part of CPS ideology that “when there is something wrong with one family member (one parent), the whole family is flawed. (This “view” or “argument” stems partly, at least, from Anna Freud, as far as I remember.) Thereby the CPS can look down on the entire family and discard their opinions and arguments as without interest.

          Recently our Minister for children, Solveig Horne, has said that the extended family IS to be considered as possible foster carers in taking-over of care cases. Well, it has really been the “rule” in all the years I can remember, it is certainly not new. The question is whether Barnevernet will comply with any more now than they have done before. Probably not. They have always got by if they have just said that “Unfortunately that is not possible in this case.” They have never liked care in the extended family, because it to some extent deprives them of their power, and they have of course NEVER gone for it if the extended family disagree with them about the need for taking the children away from the parents. When I listed the extended family particularly, as in (6) here:
          http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html
          it was exactly because Barnevernet never wants to consider it, so that is a point that needs to be changed.

          Foster care with relatives is notably better for children than it is with non-relatives. This is well-known from years back, even in the shape of some Scandinavian studies, such as Hakan Jonson’s (http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page180/page180.html). The CPS of course choose to look away from it: “It is unfortunately not applicable in just this case.”

        • Delight, I have also thought it was another Cristina Bodnariu. Good to know 🙂

          Vibeke we will support you, I am glad that your case will appear in the newspaper. Good, that you speak against the injustice that was done to you. I hope you will get your boys back very soon.

        • Marianne, before I got involved with Barnevernet, I have thought that it is so obvious that biological family is very important. I have thought that its crystal clear that biological relatives should be considered first when the children can not stay at the parents. I have thought that even if the biological relatives can not take over the care, then the contact between the biological relatives and the foster children should be very frequent, so the bond will stay strong. Of course in some cases it is not possible, but in the majority it is.

          I was quite shocked that the biological family is so disregarded in Norway. I kept asking myself..why would they do that, why would they deny contact between grandparents and children. In some cases (like Eva M.) for years giving lame excuses about children being busy with school etc. How can an authority break such important bonds. I seriously hope, this will be one of the big major changes for the future.

        • Vibeke – we have had some discussion about how dangerous or fruitful it is to share the case and documents with the media. What is your impression? Do you think the CPS will punish you in any way or do you think it may help you to get your case in a better position?

        • Pavla, thank you for correcting me regarding which ‘Vibeke’ Veronica was referring to. I admit, I only knew of one that had been affected and so I assumed it was that one. I am grateful you brought it to my attention because now I know exactly who Vibeke is and we should campaign for her after the Bodnariu case because what a tragedy that is.

          I do still stand by my words to Veronica that it was all hateful gossip.

          Yes Knut, you got the wrong Cristina. We are many though, and we support the same fight against for the Bodnariu family, and of course the many others.

          You have no respect for Marianne. Do you not forget that you are soon to retire? Then what respect or notice should we have towards your babble? Should we just disregard them as you do?

          And the truth is, you have nothing different to say than any other Barnevernet worker. You have no idea about cases, they are all individual and they are all top secret and only a few get to know the details. So then don’t claim to know what is happening. Have some self respect and treat others as you would like to be treated.

          Aussie Cristina.

        • Min mening – greit å støtte konkrete barn – familier – saklig kritikk av barnevernet – verre er det at noen kroniske norske barnevernhatere bruker denne saken i Naustdal og andre som ammunisjon i sin “Something Else” bevegelse – de ønsker barneverne fjernet, men aner ikke hva de skal ha i steden – “Else” er for øvrig greit – alle kan sette inn sin “else”. Disse forleder alle til å tro at de barn som legges ut på nettet er hele bildet av historien og det som ledet om til et vedtak de og deres advokater og vitner ikke greide å forhindre er den generaliserte utgaven. Etter en titt i kommentarfeltet så tror folk i Romania på denne generaliserte værste versjonen – barnevernet i Norge er monsterversjonen på barnevern i verden, mens sannheten er at de har så godt som det samme barnevern i sitt eget land – vi er beskrevet som fascister, nazister, kommunister – og disse stakkars folkene tror på det de finner på denne versjonen av arab spring – at barnevernet og Norge er det samme som Nord-Korea. Da blir det ganske så meningsløst og dumt det hele. VG kalte dette galskap da 100 stykker møtte opp en februardag. Ja, det er sprøyt og galskap og det forunderlige er at kronikerene i Norge ikke hjelper disse forledede til en mer sann versjon slik at de får sove godt om natt og ikke bli sengevætere alle mann fordi de kan ha en slektning i Norge. D-dagen var den avgjørende invasjonen mot en fiende. Barnevernet i Norge har ingen fiende. Dette er ikke noen krig, men en galskapens bevegelse uten mål og mening. Skal en endre eller snu noe så må en vise seg som en part som har et budskap og som kan snakke på den arena som en ønsker å påvirke. Det gjør ikke denne bevegelsen. Den snakker kun til sitt eget speilbilde – og det kan kanskje gi mening for kronikerene – oi – idag var vi 79 og så møtes de gjenlevende igjen i 2026 – idag var vi 116 – det går fremover. Nå ser jeg at det er meldt regnvær – det er trolig det samme, men det sier noe om klimaet i bevegelsen.

          This chronic CPS hater group in Norway has been there for decades. You see some of them around the table – the average age is – OLD – a break from the institution for old people. There have been protests like the ones now for decades. The muslims had their own demonstrations some years ago, but have no faded out of the arena.

          It’s you Romenians and the link to Christianity that have made this a movement on the internet an some demonstraters – around 100 in Oslo in February and around 20000 in other parts of the world. Without you Mrs. Mengele and the others would have had no ammunition and to pump up any demonstration themselves with. These people are nobodies in Norway, but you are useful tools for the demonstration for The Movement for Something Else. The knowledge given you from their archieves has made you a part of their way to view the CPS in Norway.

          I think it’s guite ok to support families like the Bodnaru’s – to demonstrate and come with factual criticism, Then it’s possible to see and hear you both for the media and the common people of Norway. The CPS will not listen to any invading force – or people who fantasy about being just that. Those people are outside the commincation circle – it’s not use either to listen to them or take them serious in any way. They are for the most part misguided and misinformed people led into fantasies about Norway, Norwegians and our functionate CPS. They have no message worth listening to. They have become haters like the chornics. Haters can only speak with themselves in the mirror – and that may function well enough for the chronics. This year maybe 79 will gather and so they – if they live – will meet again in 2026 and be 81 – a uge progress a.s.o. Mrs. Mengelse has said herself that she don’t believe in her agenda – ti’s useless – yes, it’s useless – you must have some With a trustworthy commincative skill to bring you inside the circle where it’s possible give influence.

        • Honestly Knut? So what. So what if I am being used as ‘tool’, I don’t mind, because I firmly believe Marianne has carried this for too many years in her small circle. The truth is not always an easy road and challenges come. Like ignorant people like you who are so dedicated in Your Something Else propaganda that you cannot see your system is failing the very beings it claims to protect. So we are gathered not because of Marianne, but because of God. Isaiah 64:8 ‘You are the potter, I am the clay.’

          Also, it is not as simple as a Christian crusade; you see, I have atheist friends who are outraged at the ideas implemented in Norway. And agnostic people, and people of other faiths.

          Here is an example of an American atheist who worked for the CPS there but is now completely against it. He works specifically with the families he ruined to reunite them, he has written a book, which you can buy following the link below, and he’s got a little memoir to people like you in the link below that.

          Of course, in your usual style of random words tied together meaning absolutely nothing, you will make comments that this is not relevant or similar to Norway. OR, you will say ‘see, look at USA how corrupt it is, focus there.’ Or you will share a random, useless link.

          The truth is, Marianne and her friends are no longer alone. I have chosen my company and I’d rather be associated to the people like Marianne, Chris, Pavla, the Bodnariu’s and all who fight this terrible system of yours.

          Also, you are not OLD yourself? 63? Look who’s pointing fingers. Better to be at those tables talking to thinkers than in your world where something was missing (real family) so you pledged yourself to the system thinking it will fill that hole. Nothing can or will because we were all meant to be in our families.

          One more point, Barnevernet should really have a 10th man rule playing devil’s advocate where one person highly invested in Barnevernet is selected to find any faults of the system, so that you are not all blinded in thinking Barnevernet is the brightest star in the sky. They all fall away eventually anyway.

        • I have heard this atheist speak, Cristina. Although we differ in our beliefs, I agree with his findings. He provides evidence and has personal experience. I didn’t think I would ever “say” this about an atheist, but I admire the stand he has taken on this issue.

          You have anticipated the reply you will receive from the pawn well, Christina. He is so predictable.

        • Life is the best educator and the one that allows us to experience life at an amazing level. I am a believer in God and Jesus and firmly believe we have been called to support this. I do not doubt God has great plans for Knut. How great will depend on Knut himself. As for Barnevernet, those text books needs to be completely destroyed and re-written. Only then can children and families be safe in Norway.

        • Chris, that is so funny to read your statement on atheists. I am not going into the discussion, but atheists can also have their own moral compass and have opinions and fight against injustice. But for the rest I agree with your statements (even though you are religious 😉

          Cristina, I dont mind that you have mixed up the two stories. I have written about both in the same post and did not mention both names. It is good that you and others hear also about other stories (others than Bodnariu). Of course everybody agrees that not all of the children in care can be returned without any investigation of the case. Nobody wants to return children back to abusive parents or parents who really can not (temporarily ) care for the children because they have an addiction problem. Though it should be possible to go into individual cases and find out if there was not failure. Actually that is what minister Horne said is going to happen in the spring and based on that the CPS should be changed. I wonder, it is already spring, about 18C and sun here ;-), is something happening?

          I dont hate CPS, I get that it is needed, but they should not have so much power. They should not overreact and when that happen, they should at least admit the mistake and try to correct it by themselves (not by the court decision). Unfortunately I only hear about children being returned by the decision of the court or county committee and CPS often appeals the decision. I do hope that there are cases where CPS tries to reunite the family themselves. There must be some decent CPS workers out there. I would like to hear the numbers of the children returned every year and also how many of these were returned because of CPS decision and how many because of the court decision. That is quite a difference.

        • I can admit when I am wrong so it was me who needed to read carefully but Veronica needed to be reminded that her strategy of defence is flawed.

          I agree, I would love to see the stats regarding how many are returned and which avenue. I am a numbers person and though it seems like cold hard data, it speaks a universal language.

    • I have posted it on facebook, but ok. I understand that every country needs a child protection. Unfortunately there are parents that are not loving and caring, there are parents that cause danger to their children. Of course in these cases, the children can not stay at home. But these are extreme cases.

      If the intention of CPS was to protect these children, they could have acted differently. They could have observed the situation at home first, talk with the neighbours, friends, family members and most importantly with the parents, just to get a good picture of the family. You say, that with emergency this is not possible. Well then it was obviously a misjudgement from the CPS side. Did the children looked abused? No. Even the school director only wanted some help measures. How long does a medical examination take? It could have been clear very fast, that these children had no injuries on them.

      Secondly, I also understand that you can not work totally errorless . It can happen, that sometimes CPS does not remove a child, when it should as in the case you said above..and sometimes they overreact. But then it can not take 4,5 months to reunite the family. I also wonder about all the steps that were taken after the children were removed. The way the girls were isolated is no inexcusable and I absolutely don’t believe that it was done for the safety. Then they would not isolate them from everybody like that. . Why did not CPS follow the decision of county board, that wanted to return the children with help measures? Why did not CPS listen to Marius, when he said, he was willing to cooperate and become a better parent. (even-though I think he is a very good parent as is Ruth).

      Why are there psychological evaluations made on parents and children after the children were removed. How objective is that? Seriously, should someone made such an evaluation on me, when my children were removed, I would hardly pass it. You can not make a psychological evaluation when all the family members are under such a stress. Why are these reports so important and often used as leading in the court? We have heard how they can lack expertise and how speculative they can be. To me the only solid evidence is medical examination and police investigation..If these have negative findings, then there is no reason for keeping the children. Even these can be wrong though, but I would trust that these are based on facts. . Talking to the girls and basing a case on the statements of a 7 and 9 year old can not be used as the only evidence for building up a case.

      Reply

      • Much of what you say here, Pavla, is so self-evident that it would have been standard in any real welfare system. Cf points 10 and 12 here (I am far from the first person who has suggested such guidelines):
        “Political program for child protection in local administration”
        http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html
        It is also important to note that not every criminal conviction should lead to children being deprived of their parents. Removal of a child is a most serious action, and should always be PROPORTIONATE to the offense committed, as is standard in any above-board criminal justice system, as well as it should be indisputably in the child’s best interest.

        Reply

        • Thank you Marianne for the article. , it seems so logical when its summed up like that.

          It is interesting what you say about a parent having different relationship to each of the children. Yes, obviously as children are different, their needs are also different and therefore they can be approached in different ways. What works with one does not have to work with other. But I think most parents love their children equally. Maybe sometimes some parents prefer one child over another, but I hope these are exceptions.

          To me returning only some children and keeping others is horrible. It reminds me on Sophie’s choice. Sure, its a dramatic comparison, but the scene where the mother has to choose one out of two children, will stay with me forever. The most moving scene I know.

  4. I see that the agent of the DPRN (Democratic People’s Republic of Norway) is hard at work, trying (in vain) to show us the light.

    “…a help measure level”? What Communist phrase-book is that from, Kim Il Nym, aka “Knut Nygaad”?

    Thank God, that in spite of the attempts by the thugs at Barnervernet to keep him forever, Ezekiel has been returned. Let’s all keep praying that the other four children are also returned.

    Barnevernet and their spy, “Knut”, need to understand they are not just fighting against innocent parents and their supporters, but also against God Himself. Justice will be served!

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  5. Praise the Lord!
    The remaining four children need to be returned to the parents IMMEDIATELY!
    None of those children should have been poached away in the first place! What an evil organization Barnevernet is, for them to enjoy watching the pain and the suffering of the Bodnariu family! Unbelievable…

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  7. I read in the Norwegian media that it is Tingretten that has made the decision. The CPS may appeal this decision, but the councilman in Naustdal will not comment what they will do nor the content of the verdict.

    Reply

  8. It is absurd that the younger one is home and the others are not. Is the same home. The decision proved that is based on kidnappers preferences. Pick and choose….Please help me understand!!!

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    •   
      A prominent defense the Poaching Service often comes up with, Aristotel, one very often accepted by the courts as well, is that “Somebody may be an excellent parent to ONE child, but not good for ANOTHER child.” Actually, there are often differences in the relationship between a parent and each of his children, and sometimes I am sure the “fit” in a particular relationship can be so extremely bad that it is not good for them. To dramatise such a rare thing, though, is of course nonsense. In practically all cases, getting “better advantages” and so on with strangers cannot at all compensate for being deprived of one’s own most important human beings.
         However that may be, a most relevant question, but one which is unfortunately seldom asked, is whether the CPS or their psychobablers are any good at assessing such relationships or personal relationships at all. All experience says that they are not. I am sure a fortune teller using his crystal ball would be a less dangerous assessor and predictor, and would likely have more success in his predictions.
         A common belief with the courts is that things are so safe for the children as long as they are in the hands of the Poaching Service. The opposite is the truth.
         As long as the Poachers and the municipality directing them keeps some of the children in their hands, they still hold the power of blackmail.
         

      Reply

      • Here you have a brillian example of your “sister withour arms”, Mr. Prunean – commenting babble on a verdict no one have seen – if no one have seen it – should not the truth be that we dont know the content – or a tale about poachers coming from the language professor that seems to have read a dozen cases and think she has something to tell – and the content of her last comment was??

        Reply

        • The reasoning behind the verdict is Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blaaahhh, bllllaaahhh; The bleating of the Norwegian sheep. It you have read one, you have read them all. The verdicts are reused and consist mostly of cut and paste passages.

        • No – your wrong. Each child is an individual – each parent – each family. You know yourself that your history isn’t quite the same as your neigbours a.s.o. Each case in our archives is unique and you can’t use blueprint on the case handling of one to another. Facebook and a language professor using a language that sets her forever out of serious CPS context is of no interest for the ongoing change.

      • Thank you Marianne,
        You have such an amazing and documented answer. May God protect and give you strength to help the oppressed and despaired with your clear vision about the schemes and the actions of the evildoers. This is the good faith in action. When God want to unite people the evildoers want to disperse and discredit. What is funny is that they called themselves Christians. Do you know that most of the atrocities in the world has been done by so called Christians? A false religion is more detrimental than no religion at all. The lookeworm ones that can swing sides when is convenient. Look at Knut as a prime example. All the commendements resume full filing only two : love your God and love your neighbor. Thanks God for loving people.

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  11. “Love is strong as death”. Mother’s love, perhaps, stronger. How could cold administrative regulations measure what it means for a woman to carry a baby 9 months, to give birth (!), to spend days and nights caring for him, to worry about the smallest silence, the smallest cough, and raise other children in the same time? I’m happy Ezekiel is home again in his parents’arms. I hope the other children return soon… but still I worry. Love is strong and unmeasurable, but human stupidity is an ocean too. And stupidity and cruelty go hand in hand.

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    • Well said. Wake up Norway for what’s true. Start afresh with healthy families, don’t destroy the ones that are still healthy because are not like the ones that you previously destroyed and now provide as foster homes for money. You cannot buy love. What a totalitarian evil system!!!!

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  12. As in the case, were I know all the documents, five children were taken and two returned one week after. The three children are still away 3,5 years after. The psychologist expert reports says the parents are able to handle two, not five. Not only because the two at the age of 3 were seen as a handful, like most children at that age (especially those desperately searching for their elder siblings in every kinder garden or school that they see, because the siblings are missing, and that in not understandable ways), and because the three taken had developed such special needs that they demanded enhanced foster homes (meaning more money to the foster people to stay home), representing far too much for their parents to cope with. This is, believe it or not, often the official reason. It is a “truth”, just like the truth that children have reactions after visitation because of remembering bad situations, not because they are frightened and longing for their parents (and all) and truamatized by seperation.

    The delivering back one ore two, and keeping some, is a very common phenomenom in norwegian CPS practice. I guess you can find thousands of examples of that. I personally know several. In fact it is my impression that this is the norm. That is what Skånland points out. And yes, they do it to muzzle the parents, forcing them to continue the crazy “cooperation” that at least gives their children some minutes of contact a year. The madness is still going on after all these years because of these tactics of nothing but terror. They have worked well, until today. Now the bubble breaks, thanks to the efforts of brave and loving parents, never giving up persons like Skånland, and our true friends from the world around us. I am so happy that the Bodnariu baby now sleeps between his mother and father, and that his siblings will do the same in the near future. I believe our friends will stay with us in the fight, until all cases are brought up and handled in the rule of law. With the help of God, they will.

    Reply

    • Thank you Hege for explaining. Such a decision is missing any logic. Most of us do not understand that CPS can keep some of the children and release others. That is very cruel, also on the children, who can see it as big injustice. I don’t buy the reason that a mother can not help 4 children with homework, but only 2 of them.., or that parents can only raise 2 children, but not 4..This should never be reason for such a dramatic actions. Same as nobody understand how can Eva M. raise a stepdaughter and work at school with children, but not even see her own children.

      Reply

      • Pavla, if you write about Vibeke Vedvik, I must say that this case is not based on her inability to help her children with homeworks. I did get more information from a Czech lady living in Horten who tried to help Vibeke to manage her family.. And it was much more serious and the children weren´t placed into foster family because of “homeworks.” Believe me or not.

        Reply

        • Sure, there could have been more in the beginning, but I am following her as well and I believe that she can raise all of her children. For me its not acceptable to return only some of the children and keep the others away. Even the son wrote a letter that he wants to go back home. Parents (in this case single mother) are not perfect, but unless something very serious has happened, they should get a fair chance to raise their children.

        • Another point should always be considered too, Pavla: If it is truly impossible for a child to live at home, it should not be forced to LONG FOR its parent(s) by being kept away from seeing the parent as often as it likes.

          This dramatic isolation, which the CPS always imposes when afraid to lose power, is what betrays the CPS: they want to break the bonds of love, because they know that the child will not stay peacefully with the fosterers unless compelled to.

        • It is right, love bonds the families together and the evildoers know that. This is why they keep the members apart for as longer they can. They know how to play children mind and substitute the parents love with worthless jonk ending with a perpetual self created dependent society. They (Children Poaching Service if Norway or Barnevernet ) ruin the lives keeping the business going. What a shame!!!!!

        • I agree Marianne, if it is really not possible for the children to stay home (for certain period of time), the visitation should be frequent. I can only imagine that if severe abuse has happened at home, or when the parents are alcoholic, this is not desirable. But these are extreme cases.
          Other family members should be able to maintain a good contact as well.

          Actually in an interview CPS legal advisor Anette Krogvig has admitted that they have limited visitation to one mother that could not care properly (in their opinion) for her children, so the smaller children would establish a good relationship to the foster parent. She did not forget to mention, that parents can appeal every year..right.. She obviously does not see any problem in it.

        •   
          Pavla: ” I can only imagine that if severe abuse has happened at home, or when the parents are alcoholic, this is not desirable.”

          I agree, certainly in the case of severe abuse. When it comes to alcoholism and the like, you will often find that addicts are not in a bad way all the time. They may not be dependable, so that it is necessary that the children live somewhere else, but such parents are often able to sober up from time to time, more so in order to meet their child. And if such visitation is not too infrequent, it is a help to both parent and child, and they may agree, too, that it is impossible to live together but be grateful to everybody that they can meet whenever it is possible. I have actually known one such case, in which a foster mother was very sensible, talked well of the mother and certainly helped mother and child to meet. If only CPS offices would assist that kind of situation, let visitations happen when it is possible, not nail it to specific dates three months ahead and try to make the visitations as depressing as possible.

          In another case, the foster mother understood that the separation of mother and children was all wrong, but knew that the social office would not cooperate over anything. So she went about it in a practical way. Mother and children had been used to spending a lot of time out of doors. So the foster mother did the same, took the children out, and let the mother know that on Sunday they would be going to the lake in such-and-such a forest, and they would meet there. When the children were after some years finally let out of the social office’s clutches, they and their mother continued to be friendly with this foster mother, one of the few who understood what is what.

        • Pavla, I can´t believe easily a woman I have never met just because she writes something on the net. I have never spoken to her children and I haven´t read the file- I have just information from the Czech lady who had some personal experience with Vibeke and she knows some details about he case. BV and the community tried to help Vibeke and her children for 4 years- without much success. But it´s silly, I can´t write confident or private information and it´s up to you if you belive me . I shouldn´t write in this way, but I am fed up with all lies and manipulations which are spreading on the net. I just wanted to say: Don´t trust blindly in what a person tells you (or write on fcb)…It´s not always the truth.

        • Marianne, it is good to see that sometimes foster parents get along with the biological parents understanding how important is for the children to have a contact with the family. Actually, if I am not wrong, in Czechia, the foster parents and biological parents can make agreements on meetings between them.

          I believe that even parents who are alcoholic or drug addicts can get clean, it takes a lot, but its possible. Then if they prove that they got rid of their addiction, they should be able to get their children back. Of course after a certain time. I don’t judge them, life is complicated, nobody knows, what they went through in their life and how they got into the addiction. But I get that this is an environment where children can not grow up.

        • Veronika, please read carefully before making comments. Pavla is talking about Eva, not Vibeke Vedvik. You have no idea who you are talking about and then tell us that we believe some story off the net? You are obviously gossiping with someone about a case and think that is more credible?

          And by the way, isn’t there strict rules about privacy of cases? Who shall we tell that you are gossiping with people that know people in the CPS cases so that we can ensure you get properly reprimanded and given preventative orders at home. Speak only of what you deal with directly, not your hateful gossip.

          I will tell you that my parents have had 10 children. Like most Romanians, this is normal to have big families. My parents were outnumbered for many many years but they raised healthy, successful, loving, caring and good citizens. None of us ever saw a jail cell or have substance abuse. None of us have mental illness or live in poverty. None of us had toys or friends in our childhood but none of us regret that. We worked together, helped each other to make meals, clean the house, dress the young ones, do the homework and everything else you can possibly imagine. Our parents are thankfully still with us, they are hardworking people who have instilled good work ethics in us and we love them very much.

          How do you think my parents did it? Are they the model parents? To be honest, I do not want your tainted opinion anyway because blind people just won’t see what is in front of them. My point with disclosing me is that parents cope in large families because they teach teamwork in their children at a very young age and they bond very very well together. You are from the Czech Republic, you should know exactly what big families are like. Stop gossiping and talking about things you know nothing about. Your ‘friend’ is not credible and neither are you.

        • Hmm.. Christina … a very revealing comment for the standard of ethics. One voice who dare tell something else than The Something Else movement – and especially me and my nine sibling family – how dare you…

          That’s you, Christina – had I met you in my CPS you would have with you – Your story – the next to visit me will come with another story – and so the next one – and the next one – the world is much bigger than just me and my story and experiences.

        • Veronika, and you should not believe a Czech woman, who lives in Norway and knows one of the victims. Do you know this woman personally, do you know Vibeke personally? Do you know what really happened there? If not, then your information is not credible either. As you say you can not trust everything the parents write, well I don’t have to trust the Czech either. I don’t know her personally, I don’t know her intention so..

          She is obviously part of the Czech mothers group in Norway, who were on Czech TV.

      • No, I´m sceptical when it comes to remark of that lady too,because I- once more- have never met Vibeke, her children and I have not read all documents of the Court, have you?. I could harm kids if Iwould trust in one or another version of the story- blindly. But… if I have more versions of story (and it´s checked that the Czech lady visitied Vibeke´s home and helped her and her children few years ago, but I am not sure about her proper description of events- yes, naturally), I should be more cautious and less activist (my opinion).. Why I do believe in this or that version ? should I asked myself. It´s an absurd version- that about homeworks, So why I am buying it? BTW Norwegian education system is quite children-friendly, not too demanding, children don´t get any marks until 7th grade for example, nobody worries too much about homeworks. It´s my experience. But what I wanted to say? That we do not know the truth and the reasoning of the Courts involved in cases. Why to trust anyone in these cases? Norway and Czechia are countries based on rule of law and i´s up to the Courts to decide in this very sensitive field (it´s not an issue for badly informed public- and you can´t be informed properly without having access to all documents).

        Reply

        • Cristina,Pavla wrote about 2 cases, not just about Eva. The debate as whole is based on words of someone involved in the case (parents, extended family acquiantances..). I haven´t seen any document from i.e. Bodnariu case. Maybe it´s not possilbe to reveal verdicts, to copy them, to read them in whole in Norwegian etc., I do not know if the rule of confidentality are at stake. But…then it´s imposible to say who is right and what did really happen. Someone said something… and it´s all.

        • Veronika, our information comes from the family. I have no reason to doubt their story, they never contested to the CPS that they spanked the kids lightly.

          The information also comes from attorney Peter Costea from Texas who has reviewed all the documents in the case and he wrote extensively about it.

          Here is one article he wrote among others.

          http://bodnariufamily.org/articles/4794/

          A UN human rights attorney reviewed the documents as well. He counted 7 references to religious upbringing in the discussion minutes between CPS and the Bodnarius.

          We are more than grounded in the truth.

        • Yes, I would like to read the court decisions, what can be a reason to return one out of five children..what can be a reason to return two out of four children. What kind of injustice these children experience now? Has anyone thought about it? If the home is safe for one, then it is safe for all of the children. And that is it about safety and care. There is quite a broad term about what insufficient care can mean. to me the state should not interfere unless something criminal happens (abuse of any kind) at home, or unless there is such a neglect, that the children are visibly harmed. For the rest “sufficient care” can be for many people a different term.

        • I have a guess, Pavla. Returning 1 of 5 means that 80% of funding for this “operation” is still being allocated. Hasn’t this entire thing been profit over personal liberty, a cruel and evil philosophy, since the beginning?

        • The emergency in the Naustdal case is done from Criminal Law § 282 by the police – violence done in the family/near relations and the Child Welfare act § 4-6, 2 junction – If there is a risk that a child will suffer material harm by remaining at home, the head of the child welfare administration or the prosecuting authority may immediately make an interim care order without the consent of the parents.

          Neither of these persons you refer to are legal parts in the ungoing case – neither is you. You may know – I don’t – from what documents Costea built up the defence for the family.

          I have heard myself both parents admitting to parental violence and that the father had denied some of the things the daughters had spoken of.

          In this case I tend to be more on your side and as I have said a couple of times before – if this is all and nothing is hidden under the carpet the family would have been united months ago if this was a case at our office.

          From there – to generalizing – that CPS is Norway is the Monster CPS in the world is a giant exaggeration. I think it’s unfair in the way that the CPS in Norway is made the monster of all – and that in nations that if compared have a worse in their own backyard – worse is not my word – that comes from Mrs. Mengele. Sweden and UK are mentioned. The US, Canada and Australian version are quite the same. Ok – it’s unfair. No. 2 – it’s built upon lies and generalization – false propaganda and one eyed storytelling. You can demonstarte and do whatever you want for me, but if you want to reach the common Norwegian and the media you must build your movement on others and on facts. You have to change your language and behaviour and get in a position inviting to communicate – now you are on a battle trip where the other part – Norway, Norwegians and the CPS have other things to do.

        • Ok Knut, so if your office would have handled this differently. You mean that these children were never removed in your place according to this story?

          So if the Naustdal office acted the way it did, we can assume that they made huge mistakes. The thing is, what are they going to do about it? As I read it, the court has decided, not the CPS of Naustdal that the baby will be returned.

          I also read that the county committee has sided with the parents, now how can CPS not follow the decision of county committee since its not only CPS decision about removing the children? Last I dont understand about the council..I thought all decision were made at county committee or at court.

          To me, all the steps that followed the removal are not excusable. Why to move children so far away from their home, why to separate them from each other by such a long distances..why isolate the girls like that. Is that in best interest of children, is that really the only solution for the safety? I doubt it.

          You know, the stories are not the same, but they have some common features. The unwillingness of CPS to cooperate with the parents. I am somehow worried about how the CPS handles after the children are removed. What counseling is there for the parents and a will to help the family. I am sure its not the same in every CPS office, but these things happen. To me, to deny biological relatives contact with the children is a crime. It is wrong, because children have strong bonds with their family and unless the whole family is completely pathological, this should never happen.

          Eva M. has published parts of her file. She has even given her file to the media. There are politicians from different political parties, that dont have the same agenda, involved. I have seen the court decision, I have seen the result of police investigation. We know, that nobody from the family has no contact with the older child and very very limited with the younger child. I find it cruel.

          Its not to say that everybody at CPS works this way, but if there is a system that allows that, if that is a system, that can cover up such an injustice, then it is wrong.

          Maybe you could take a time and get to know Cecilie and Vibeke and Eva and Ken and Bodnariu and others and then you would see it differently.

        • You are the voice of common sense, Pavla. Magma man, the propagandist, is the voice of dysfunction. It is a very deep pit he is in and he dug it himself.

        • Thank you Chris. I am trying to understand why would CPS act like that against the families. I mean, even prisoners who are actually convicted are allowed contacts with their relatives, but parents and other family members are often denied contact with their children even though they are often cleared of the original charges. It should not be like that and I hope this year is a breaking point.

        • Pavla – you don’t know Norwegian – I suppose – but I remenber from my youth on vacition in Europe that I understood the language in Netherland from German omitting a lot of vocals. I wonder if it works the other way. I found a master in Child Protection today with the headling: “Assessments done of emergency cases in the child protection”.

          The writer give us cases as she had answered a varied group of respondents. The green graphic show the % for those who considered the case not to be of interest for the CPS – the grey to be something they should consider more with the ?? before given a concern – the beige to be sent to immidiate investigation/ a serious concern, but not emergency and the red those who thought this was an emergency.

          As you see the individuals differ. I for my part would have gone for investigation on all – no emergencies. As I have said before an emergency need the leaders and the legal advicers consent. A leader is more restrictive in the consideration than the casehandlers. You also find that the education might explain the difference. Sosionom og barnevernskurator are the two most freguent educations in the CPS. In some parts of Norway they also have other educations – like f.i.l kindergarden teacher – these others are more worried.

          If Horne is awake now and follows the Naustdal case I hope she think that we have a job to do to be more collected in our assessments done in emergency cases – this master show that we differ to much and I think this give consequences families should be saved from.

          Click to access Anita%20S%C3%A6ther%20Jensen%20-%20vurderinger%20av%20akutte%20saker%20i%20barnevernet.pdf

        • Knut, thanks for the file. It is actually quite interesting. I understand only few words in Norwegian, written Norwegian is actually easier.

          These stories, are they real stories or model stories for the research?
          I suppose these are observations of a case worker? Is that always interpreted in the right way?

          The behaviour of the children in my opinion should not be worrying. Children are already born with certain character and you can influence only a part of it. Children are different, some are very social, some are not. This can also change with the age partly.

          Another point..the fact that parents leave the girl at home alone. Again if that is a fact, that would be worrying indeed. I dont think that a 4 year old can stay alone at home at night. Alcohol abuse, if its real abuse, then of course as well, if its just drinking a glass or two at home in front of the kids, that is another story.

          So alcohol abuse and leaving a small child alone in the night would be my concern indeed. There was family that was leaving a small baby alone at night and that had tragic ending for the baby.

        • These are cases made up from real cases I think. When i read them I looked for how much the child was involved. Is violence f.i. confirmed by the child, then we in my view have an emergency. If the child is the one who tells the story we often treat it like an emergency, but it can end with reunion late in the evening. Made up cases are a part of our education.

        • Knut Nygaard: “These are cases made up from real cases I think.”

          Yes, you think, but you do not know, do you? That is the way it usually is with Barnevernet; They think, they believe, they presume, they assert etc. This is the explanation for why many cases go wrong. Facts are not established. If a social worker thinks a child is a victim of sexual abuse, that is enough for the social worker to interfer and take the child from the parents. Even if charges are unsubstantiated, that does not stop barnevernet from acting on them. Parents who are falsely accused of either violence or psychiatry do not stand a chance against barnevernet because the prejudice of the social worker is enough to convince the judges that the children are better off in a foster home.

          I read through the cases in the master thesis of Anita Sæther Jensen, see https://www.fylkesmannen.no/PageFiles/737902/Anita%20Sæther%20Jensen%20-%20vurderinger%20av%20akutte%20saker%20i%20barnevernet.pdf, and I think they are made up because they are too clear cut. The world is not like that. Most of the cases encountered by barnevernet are complex which means that they are not clear-cut, e.g. the mother is retarded and on welfare. How many real cases are like that? So, usually barnevernet thinks the worst in order to protect the child. But it has severe consequences for a small child to be removed from the parents, and barnevernet are not taking these into account.

          In my view, the police should investigate. Barnevernet does not have the competence to investigate. Too much is left to the discretion of the individual social workers. The result is arbitrary decisions to have the children removed.

        • I don’t know who you are. But I know who you have listen to. It is a woman called Jitka Holanova. She has never helped me with anything, but I helped her with her two children while she worked. As a fellow human, not as a employee. One day, my youngest son was playing in her house, and he was accidentally crushed an object in her house. Then she beat him. And my 4 year old son came crying home to me with fiery red cheeks. Jitka and I have never speak again after this. What you have heared is just lies. I have written to her too, why she lie about me, but she don’t answer me. Maybe she is invious. I don’t know. You can read about us in papers next week. I am very trustworthy.

        • Vibeke – we have had some discussion about how dangerous or fruitful it is to share the case and documents with the media. What is your impression? Do you think the CPS will punish you in any way or do you think it may help you to get your case in a better position?

        • Veronika: I saw Jitka as a friend, and I like to be very thankful for my friends. That day, I wanted to thank those you mention a little exstra. One of them live across the country, two proved later that they weren’t true friends. (Jitka and Kate). Jitka was good to drop in for a coffee and have a talk. We support each other with a ear to listen in good times and bad times. In a laborious life it can be really encouraging. She thinks that time that barnevernet was mean to us. And she feared them too, since she was i a vulnerable situation. We was good friends until she hit my son. But when it comes to help, it is a big lie that she has done something more beyond drink a lot of coffee and talk with me. I don’t talk trash about her, and I wish her all the best. But I can’t have her in my sircle of friends because of what she did to my little son. That you certain understand. Sorry my bad english.

        • Knut: There are different opinions about how to fight when you have a case in barnevernet. I am convinced that if it wasn’t for that I fight so hard as I do, I wouldn’t have my girls here now. They still punish me to hold my boys back. But I’m not afraid of people with power and I fear no consequences of coming forward . I have nothing to hide, and I can stand for everything I have done, said, doing and saying. Truth WILL come out, and wicked people will be accountable. My boys will come home!!! 💪

        • Chris: If you send me your email adress, I can send you my documents from my case in the court! 😊☺

        • Vibeke,

          I have seen documentation about one particular Norwegian politician who was against the B.V. and now supports them. It is sad what a little bit of “power” can do to some people. It is unfortunate what happened between you and this Jitka Holanova. I think any responsible parent would have acted exactly as you have. Now V. uses your former friendship against you. It is disgraceful.

        • Better than that we should become Facebook friends, Vibeke. I am Chris Reimers and I live in Hot Springs, Arkansas. Where do you live again? We can search for one another. If you don’t have Facebook, I will gladly give you my email here.

      • If she didn´t help you with anything, why did you thank her for (a non-existent?) help on your open facebook account? You´ve decided to go out with your case, but we don´t know and we should not have known any details, any documents.

        You felt grateful to Jitka and everyone can read it (December 2013- google translator into English):
        https://www.facebook.com/vibeke.vedvik?fref=ts (31.12. 2013)
        2013 was an emotionally difficult year, many huge painful and tough, inhuman burdens … but thanks to very good friends and more wonderful siblings, I have rescued me. Richard and Kate , Jitka and Sabrina will have a special big thanks from me. Without you 4 know I really do not where I had been today. You have all 4, in each their way, and without that you’ve known about it though, salvaged me from collapsing completely and utterly. You have carried me through the storms and you’ve been my wings when I forgot how to fly.

        Reply

        • So now they are having the help of true friends being held against them??? How much lower can you go. You are in the magma along with the pawn.

          And who is the “we?” Sounds like you are not working by yourself, V. (B.V.?)

        • Vibeke, what was my point? That you and the others (your ex- friends etc.) are telling stories about what did happen in your family. These stories may be different and you can blame your ex- friends of lying and your ex- friends may call “a liar” you. Who can decide who is right? Nobody. We (i. e. people who are not a part of your case) do not know how your family had been doing before your children were removed. It´s not our bussiness anyway, we should let the Courts decide…

        •   
          Veronika Valachova believes one should let the courts decide, i.e. that one should trust the courts.
             Once one has had a certain experience of CPS cases in Norwegian courts (as I have, serving as an expert witness on several occasions), has read a number of judgments in such cases (as I have, several dozen, probably more than a hundred), and has studies the law and practice which underpin the judgments over several decades, it becomes clear that trusting the courts is hazardous.
             As it indeed often is, in many countries. Good, transparent laws, leading to good judgments, is never something that can be taken for granted. The people who fall foul of such a judicial system, are often surprised, and regret that they have been too trustful and have not taken note earlier of the duties that fall on every citizen if a humane rule of law is to be upheld.
             One might, of course, say “Serves them right”. It does not just to their children, though. And for outsiders to express that they do not care, but at the same time show them haughty contempt, is hardly justifiable.
            

        • Expert witness? – yes we have those, but never a long ago retired language professor. Anyway – a witness – is in – say the witness – and then – out, The legal parts attain the whole session.

          The parents attending of couse know the truth in their case and the lawyer tries to contribute with the legal context to that history. The CPS have the history attached to the case from A to Å.

          You – as a CPS hater for decades have other glasses on than a common individual.

        • Well Veronika you do care obviously, otherwise you would not have get the information from Jitka, or search on Vibekes Facebook. But since the group of Czech mothers is trying to defend Barnevern, they of course welcome anything that can discredit the parents. So the parents, who have lost their children are judged by the majority now as well. It is like double punishment.

          Well if there is even a slight doubt, that these children were taken unfairly, it should be investigated. There is much more than a slight doubt in many of the cases. You obviously believe the courts, but why dont you believe the experts who criticize CPS? How about Einar Salvesen, who was expert witness where a mother has won her children back. He is stating clearly, that the psychological evaluations were wrong, speculative and not based on facts. He is also saying, that the judges did not question these reports anymore, but accepted them. This is a big problem and this can lead to tragedies. The mother from his description got the children back after 2 years when her case went through all levels of juridical system in Norway and guess what..no court or county committee have found out, that it was wrong. Obviously he is not the only one, since 170 experts share his concern. I wonder, why is nobody listening to them??

  13. What a great and encouraging thread with the exception of the propagandist’s commenting babble.

    I hope all are in agreement that all protests must continue to take place even if the entire Bodnariu family is reunited..

    It wouldn’t surprise me if “The CPS may appeal this decision” as the “man in the magma” stated.

    It is a beautiful picture. It is the way God intended this baby to be.

    Reply

      • I haven’t noticed you here before this thread, Cristina. I probably just missed you because the propagandists here try to get so much attention. You have responded rightly to one of them here. Veronika is digging a hole right next to the main propagandist. Even though I am not Romanian, I was raised in America in a way that was somewhat similar to you. Your description of your upbringing explains why the Romanians have been so instrumental in this fight. I am so glad you are commenting here.

        Reply

        • Hi Chris, yes between Facebook and other media channels, I do like to read these comments and I suppose on the day that Ezekiel was returned, the spiteful people of CPS want to dispute and argue, and I suppose I would comment. But I have learnt a crucial lesson to understand the people better. I am still hearing of all the cases and some are familiar, others aren’t so I missed up the Vibeke that I knew. Now I know who she is and I am glad you, Marianne, Pavla, Chris P, Hege and so many others are supporting each other, you are much more skilled at this than me who was simply too emotional the other night. I will keep reading the comments and will do my supporting in my reading and learning. 🙂 Blessings to you and your family. 🙂

        • Cristina,

          Thank you for your kind words and please continue to comment as the Lord leads you. Maybe it’s because of your comment that the real Vibeke is now commenting here.

          God’s blessings to you and your family. 🙂

        • Wow that is a blessing, I’m glad she has found some courage. The best we can do is assure her that we are on her side. 🙂 My father used to say ‘dirt is dirt. The more you dig in the same place, the more you will find the same thing.’ I can’t comprehend this system at all. They manipulate the truth to condemn people and deny the truth to avoid persecution. I was chatting to the new organiser of the New Zeeland protest and she made a comment that the truth has a way of defending itself. The very nature of truth is it’s own defence mechanism. So Jesus knew what He was talking about when in John 8:32 He said ‘And you will know the truth, and that truth will set you free.’ For now, I will take a break, regain my composure and spend time with God. Blessings and praying wth faith.

    • I´m not so naive that I would believe the Courts without any reservations, but the Courts- unlike me- can investigate the cases, read all documents, ask questions, make an interview with a wittness…We (people without deep insight into cases and without being experienced as a lawyer of a judge) lack these professional skills and information. A verdict of one Court may be checked by a higher Court and it could be changed by this Court (District court, cCourt of the appeal,The European court for Humans Rights etc). It´s far from perfect, but it´s better than anything else.

      Reply

        • Pavla, I´d like to show you the main shortcoming and problem of these debates- you alway rely on words of a person. And you can´t check the words- you have to believe if you like. Have you read this letter of experts? If so, you know that they didn´t write about specific cases, but about general framework in which CPS a the Courts work. And they weren´t so fanatic as CPS- haters: According to their letter cPS does good work… mostly. Something should be fixed etc., but the experts are much more balanced that the debate here. And they don´t write about cases in which they aren´t involved as one of part. In children´s sake.

        • It´s a fact that we lack professional skills and deep insight into individual cases. Can we replace the Court, do we have all documents from all parts and can we decide about the verdict in better way than the Cours? Do we need a judicial system or are we smart enough to be judges ourselves?

        • “It´s a fact that we lack professional skills and deep insight into individual cases. Can we replace the Court, do we have all documents from all parts and can we decide about the verdict in better way than the Cours? Do we need a judicial system or are we smart enough to be judges ourselves?”

          You have to be joking, right? Or are you really that lacking in skills to see the idiocy of your comment? At the beginning you state there is a lack of skills and deep insight then imply that you would make better judges? I think the answer to that is NO. Go get educated by living outside of text books and into real life.

        • Veronika is just telling the truth – we don’t know the truth in any case shared with us on the internet. We are all on the outside looking in to just the part where the sharing have had it’s focus. We don’t know the rest of the picture – the history from the start – the history from the concerns arrived at the CPS – what have been done? – have all help measures been used to help this particular child/family? a.s.o. The focus is turned the other way – to the inhuman CPS.

          Veronika says she isn’t so naive – and why should she? What worries me is exactly what she observes – that you take any information given to you as the truth because you are activists and bought for the cause.

        • Ok, let’s for a second consider I too am an outsider looking in. All the way from Australia. I read something about a family in Norway who have had all 5 children removed, including a baby that is 3months old. I go in search to find answers. No one provides any. I then stumble across bufdir.no and there I find articles telling me that children are removed as a last resort, when all possible options are reviewed. You mentioned my communication skills, thank you, but I am a numbers person so I find your CWS for children with a minority background and see some numbers. It tries to dumb the shock down by in the ‘main points’ section noting 1,665 children aged 0-17 years old were taken into care in 2014. You scroll a little further down, and there is graph. When you put your cursor over it, the figure for children being removed is 8,569. As you can imagine, as someone who is an outsider looking in, Barnevernet is already appearing sketchy with it’s manipulated data.

          http://www.bufdir.no/en/English_start_page/Child_welfare_services_for_children_with_a_minority_background/

          There are so many other wrongs with this that even though to you it’s all about ‘well, we don’t know nothing about each case and why’ but seeing as your population is about 5million, over 8000 children removed is a HUGE figure.

          So you defend Barnevernet while saying: ‘we don’t know the truth in any case shared with us on the internet. We are all on the outside looking in to just the part where the sharing have had it’s focus. We don’t know the rest of the picture – the history from the start – the history from the concerns arrived at the CPS – what have been done? – have all help measures been used to help this particular child/family?’

          Do you know what we think about people like that? People pleasers who have no mind of their own that are like toy soldiers in a real war. Useless.

        • Unlike you, Knut Nygaard, who receive your payment from Barnevernet, we are just concerned individuals with a mind of our own, and of course, we don not receive any payment. The activsts are Barnevernet front soldiers who are deploying all tactics to defend this monstrous institution. Also the collaborators of Barnevernet receive a lot of money. The caregivers are salaried persons, and psychologist experts are economically dependent on Barnevernet; they are the ones who have been bought. I personally has spent tens of thousands of Norwegians crowns trying to defend my small family against the aggressive attacks of Barnevernet. It is like being under constant siege. Barnevernet is extremely wealthy because it is funded by the oil-rich Norwegian state. The parents are very poor in comparison. But we will rigorously defend our children from this tyranny! And we never give up because we have history on our side. All tyrants will fall, eventually, even Barnevernet, this evil offspring of the welfarestate.

  14. I know Vibeke. From facebook. I like her a lot. She is very trustworthy. She shares her story and documents. You should just have asked her, Veronica. Vibeke is a very good mother. Do you know why? Among other things she has managed to protect her children and raise them to be self confident, healthy and happy, under circumstances most people don’t need to cope with. Her challenges came from where her main support was supposed to be, her husband, who she loved, and who passed away recently. She needed help, and went to a emergenzy shelter. That is the last thing people should do in Norway, the risk of losing the children are too big for that. I wonder how many women who has experienced the same as Vibeke. Well, it did not take long until Vibekes husband understood that he should pack his bags, and in the meanwhile barnevernet established their “help”. Mostly this meant controlling, some would say to build a case probably was the real agenda. The last six weeks before the takeover the CPS casehandlers came three times a day. They were reminding Vibeke to put out the candles before going to bed, asking her if she had remembered to turn off the stove, one time sticking their nose into a birthday present even before the yongest girl had the chance to open it. Another person would have gone mad during a treatment like this (what is their official purpose; provocing the parents to show their real behaviour, I have read it myself in the curriculum, a book written by Kari Killen). Vibeke did not. She managed even to protect the children from feeling afraid 24 hours a day, like her self. Her tools are positiv thinking, love and playfulness. She played and read the children to bed, quite sure that they would make it. She knew she was a good mother, and the father was far away, just like barnevernet had demanded. Then the children were taken. Now two are back and they are doing fine, coping with their traumas, hoping their brothers will be back soon. I hope so too, and believe they will.

    Reply

    •   
      I have met Vibeke, she is a lively, friendly person with great concern for her children. Her parents, who love and support her, have also contacted me.
         I think we might go further, even, than Hege does here: Parents are not to be measured up against the ideas some of us might have about whether a parent is excellent. UNLESS Vibeke has been proven to have acted as an ATROCIOUS parent, she is to be respected as what she is: a parent who loves her children. Before the bond of love we should be humble, not judgmental. Parental love is valuable.
         The boot is on the other foot: Barnevernet, an official body, with an incredible power and a kind of “education” which is claimed to make them expert, ARE to be measured up against a standard of what an official service should be. There is so much evidence, from so many cases, that Barnevernet acts very detrimentally to parents AND children, that they lie in their documents, that they lie in court, that there is no question of being able to accept what they say, if they are not able to prove it beyond all reasonable doubt. This they rarely can. Court judgments are often deficient too. Judges and lawyers have been trained in the official psychology and other ideas which dominate in Barnevernet.
         This is not a comrade court where we can demand that at parent document this or that or else we complacently choose to believe all is admirable in Norway. It is not justified to “declare” that we are under the rule of law. It has to be examined and investigated in all sorts of sectors all the time. There is plenty of sloppy, too easy, deficient handling of issues of great societal import in Norway. Any too easy acceptance of what people in power do makes society vulnerable.

      Reply

      • A little more regarding inequality of arms:

        Octavian: “.. his tone when he states that an emeritus professor is “nobody”. On the other hand, it reflects how Barnevernet’ employees relate to other citizens. Ms Skanland is criticizing a system that can be changed whereas this propagandist attacks the person.”
        (April 6, https://delightintruth.com/2016/04/06/baby-ezekiel-has-been-freed/comment-page-1/#comment-69327)

        Yes, this is the way CPS people are used to respond, Octavian. They have the power to destroy most of those who know best of all, from personal experience, the nature of their actions, those in Barnevernet’s power. Their frightened victims are no match for them. They are not used to open opposition which they cannot do anything much about, so they try something of the same there too. I recall, for instance, some curious statements from Mr Nygaard re my person:
        “By mocking the Norwegian society in the way Mrs. Skånland do she is on thin ice and she can be glad that her voice isn’t heard by people that take it more seriously what accusations come out of her mouth about a country that is loved and honered.”
        (April 5, https://delightintruth.com/2016/04/04/has-840-million-bought-the-norwegian-churchs-silence/#comment-69257)
        “… chronic haters in their mission for “something else” in a country that is loved and honered throughout the world. Mrs, Mengele would have been tracked down living in the States”
        (April 7, https://delightintruth.com/2016/04/06/baby-ezekiel-has-been-freed/#comment-69376)

        Are these threats of what he would like to do? If people in power in Norway bothered about me, they could do what to me? For criticising my country? And America would have taken me to task?

        So perhaps this is the way he is used to deal with families in his power who protest against Barnevernet?

        The importance and function of freedom of expression is not well understood in Norway.

        Reply

        • It is nothing more than bully tactics and attempts at intimidation as you well know, Marianne. This is the same guy who is going to look my family information up on the internet.

          The Magma Monster (this is not name calling as it is true) calls himself a Christian. It is despicable.

          I admire those like you who live in Norway and are willing to speak out, Marianne. If you had young children you would probably have visits three times a day to make sure you were perfect. Then, you would have your children taken no matter what you did.

          These people have logs in their eyes.

        • Yes I remember, Chris a most peculiar, open attack on you. I guess your writing upset him? It might seem unbelievable that someone would show so clearly how they think and how they are prepared to act. But it’s admirable that he uses it against us – victim families are hardly going to be believed by the authority-obedient majority if they tell of how they are treated.

          It doesn’t really take courage for me, Chris. They can make me uncomfortable and stigmatised but it is unlikely that they can do anything else to me. That may be why they find me so extra unlikeable. Dislike of a person in Arkansas I feel pretty sure is limited to Mr Nygaard personally.

        • You are unique, Marianne, and this is the first time I will disagree with you. I think you have courage.

          I have no fear of the Magma Monster. All he can do is continue to show us his thinking no matter what he does. It has and will continue to be quite valuable.

    • Thank you for this information, Hege.

      This type of activity is madness. The CPS workers would do better going house to house making sure all candles are out and stoves are off so that no fires occur. It would greatly improve their effectiveness as humans.

      Reply

    • And Pavla, you are not an independent voice,as I can see. You are a bit biased because when you DO believe a parent (you have never met and you have never read documents from the Courts) because you want to belive. You are certain that her ex.- friends (volunteers from Red Cross) have to lie etc. I say: Everyone can tell lies and anyone is not trustworthy automatically. It´s why we are not the Court and we are not going to decide about the children… fortunatelly.

      Reply

    • Once again the propagandist educates us. The man with the grey hair on the stage is Bill Johnson.

      He is very popular in America. You can read a bit about him here:

      Bethel Church “cult” rightly under fire (Part 1)

      or here…

      https://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1

      or many other places.

      The first video you have posted is of misled people who are following leaders who teach cult like and evil messages.

      Why has the pawn posted this? It has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity which many of us, supporting the Bodnarius and others like them, believe in.

      Reply

      • I will anticipate the pawn’s next statement. Yes, we have many leaders in America who claim to be Christians, but are wolves in sheep’s clothing. The pawn will never reach the back row of the chessboard.

        Reply

        • Bill Johnson is the man wearing black with grey hair usually seen in this video at the right of the screen when the camera pulls back.

        • Wait long enough and you can hear the false teacher speak of healing. Don’t be deceived by this wolf. He teaches a false Jesus, not the Jesus of the Bible.

        • Maybe a little to radical for you, Chris – but the people that aren’t afraid of the consequences of following Christ and the one Mission we all have got have my respect as a follower of Christ-

        • You’re a funny guy Chris – we have some of the same here in Norway too – see it is their main mission to tell other about the danger that follows other Christians that dare to move in a way that everybody else don’t follow. I’m quite sure you willl meet Bill Johnson and many of those attending on Los Angles Memorial Coliseum in heaven.

          I love the worship coming from Hillsong, Jesus Culture and IHOP. I seldom listen to the speeches and education – but I have respect for Christians that take the Mission given serious and act – most Christans are inactive.

          I saw a clip from Coliseum. You have Indians – we have Samis – they believe in spirit and here in Norway the drum beat is an introduction to their spirit. I have been to a seminar in the CPS where the culture break was an introduction to Shamanism – the Samis spiritual world.

          When the Indians began my thoughts said – this is unclean – and if this is unclean – so the organizers that allows it. Wait, said my wife – does this lift you up or bring you down? Hmm.. It was an uplifter .. and we agreed to that God must have a real good time watching this …

        • Knut, I will “speak” directly to you for a change but only because you think I am a funny guy (I don’t think I’m funny at all myself).

          You wrote:

          “I have been to a seminar in the CPS where the culture break was an introduction to Shamanism – the Samis spiritual world.”

          This statement is interesting for a number of reasons. Why would an organization like the CPS be interested in religion? I would think they would spend their break time resting to be ready for the next session designed to help children. Since you mention Shamanism, the CPS must have been presented with traditional beliefs. I have found that “traditional Sámi beliefs consist of three intertwining elements: animism, shamanism and polytheism.” It was also easy to find “Sami spirituality is often characterized by pantheism, a strong emphasis on the importance of personal spirituality and its interconnectivity with one’s own daily life, and a deep connection between the natural and spiritual “worlds”. Interestingly, all of this “stuff” is coming back today in the many different forms of “New Age” spirituality. All are about as unchristian as beliefs go. I also found that most samis belong to the state church in Norway today which also seems to be very unchristian. Over 50% of members say they aren’t Christian.

          I have learned so much because of you, Knut.

          This statement gives me hope for you:

          “When the Indians began my thoughts said – this is unclean – and if this is unclean – so the organizers that allows it.”

          This tells me that a small ember burns in you. Although it seems ready to go out through many of your statements here, it is there just as God says it is in Romans 1:20. I think you are very close to Romans 1:21 and the following verses, however if you continue to listen to voices like your wife’s instead of God’s Word.

          “Wait, said my wife – does this lift you up or bring you down? Hmm.. It was an uplifter .. and we agreed to that God must have a real good time watching this ”

          You agreed, incorrectly. How could the holy God of the Bible think that anything that is sami tradition be good? It is impossible.

          You mentioned that “I love the worship coming from Hillsong, Jesus Culture and IHOP.” Each of these groups are connected to heretical teachings. It doesn’t matter how good the worship music sounds. It draws people in so that false teachings can be absorbed afterwards by those who have lost all ability to think for themselves.

  16.   
    Pavla (on 11 April at 5:33 – further up in the thread):
    “Though it should be possible to go into individual cases and find out if there was not failure. Actually that is what minister Horne said is going to happen in the spring and based on that the CPS should be changed. I wonder, it is already spring, about 18C and sun here, is something happening?”

    Oh no, it won’t happen in the spring. One man who asked the Ministry about this reading task force had a reply the other day. He passed on the reply letter to some of us, and it is of the kind that can easily cause one to laugh oneself into hiccups, so clear is the intention to do nothing.
       In the letter from Mrs Horne’s next-in-command Mr Terning, he says, first of all (self-congratulatorily) that there is such a lot of good work being done in the CPS. But they need to know more (why don’t they know already, they are the boss!?) Then, after announcing that Horne has declared that a selection of cases will be read (they never took the initiative, they were pressed into it by CPS critics), he says (my translation),
    “Who is going to do the reading and how it is to be carried out in practice is now being considered more closely. The Ministry will work out a mandate for the task. It is being planned that the work can start in the autumn. The work is expected to take at least a couple of years.”
       So because of the urgency of all the emergency cases and serious criticism, they aim to start perhaps in the autumn – ALREADY! Two years will develop into at least into something like 4, at the end of which they will write a deep report, citing figures and resources and assistance. A very ordinary “investigation” of Barnevernet like several we have seen before over the years, in fact. The way the letter is formulated it probably originated in a press announcement.  
       Jan Simonsen found it funny too, and wrote an article entitled “Travle dager i departementet” (Busy / Hurried days in the Ministry):
    http://www.frie-ytringer.com/2016/04/11/travle-dager-i-departementet/

    Reply

    • So much for promises, huh, Marianne? I am out of adjectives for this “organization.” It seems to me that those in power have been dragging their feet since as early as 1993. One day one of these “leaders” will let us know that the target year is 2050. By then, all of these angry, abused children will have grown up and taken over the country via revolution.

      I can’t help but mention that I think the promises of Jesus second coming may be fulfilled by then. If so, this will no longer be an issue.

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      • Yes, one could definitely question the intelligence of the Norwegian community which lets their authorities go on like that.
           But you are wrong about 1993! The was the time when a revised child protection law started functioning, NOT the first time we had a child protection law. The previous law was of 1953, and before that again 1896 and even earlier developments in the 19th century.

        Cf Jørgen Stueland: “We must take our children back”
        http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8221
        and
        Erland Løken: “Barnevernet i Norge – i fortid og nåtid” (Child protection in Norway – in the past and the present)
        http://www.barnasrett.no/erland_loken/barnevernet_i_norge.htm

        I have noticed that people abroad tend to believe that the 1992/93 law was the start of child protection in Norway, so that the Norwegians sort of stumbled into it with no experience and no notion of what was going on. Not at all. And our child protection has always had more than a shade of punishment about it – punishment of children as well as of parents. Discontent with the way the 1953 law was working was of course the reason why a new one was put in place in 1993. An important new thing then was the County Committee system, which was supposed to give greater security that the decisions being taken were right than what the previous committees appointed more directly in the municipalities did. When the County Committees were seen to be “coming”, the CPS people were at first solidly against them. They thought this would hinder them from doing what they wanted to do. However, the CPS soon changed their tune; they discovered that they could turn things around their own people plus “the state’s useful idiots” would be appointed to serve on them – much more predictable than local politicians politically and directly appointed – and then the County Committees would give them an extra answer to every complaint: They could say, “No, WE don’t remove children, that is done by the County Committees.”

        Which is exactly the answer they always give.

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    • Thank you Marianne, I did not know that.
      I have to say its very disappointing. I have expected much faster action. I wonder what other urgent matters now the Minister has? This should be priority.

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  17. I just learned about what this agency has been doing. Absolutely frightening and cruel beyond comprehension. I’m happy that baby was returned to his parents, but what about his siblings? What this agency has done to this family is criminal.
    Apparently this happens in Sweden as well. Not surprising these are two of the most politically correct nations on earth.

    Reply

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