Hundreds of thousands of protesters in the streets across the globe. Hundreds of thousands of social media posts, mailings, e-mails, phone calls and meetings.
Tens of millions of hits on various domestic and international news articles in the United States, Europe, Australia and Asia. Millions of visits to various blogs and news outlets.
Approximately 270,000 visitors/views at Delight in Truth, and many more at Agnus Dei, Popas Pentru Suflet and other blogs.
After 6 and a half months of THIS tremendous international pressure, Norway is returning all 5 Bodnariu children to their parents.
But in this difficult process, God has accomplished something much greater.
God has used the suffering of one family to expose an entire system. He has awakened the sleeping giant, the world-wide evangelical Romanian church to unite and to show the world what is going on in Norway and other European countries.
Due process violation and state sponsored child traffic is no longer a tacitly approved secret in the Nordic countries. A Bodnariu victory is now the flame that give hope, real hope, for thousands of Barnevernet victims who had their children confiscated unfairly.
And hope cannot be underestimated.
Cases like Bodnariu will make their way through the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights, to the shame of Norway, and everyone will find out that a modern and progressive country like Norway harbors this dark secret.
How was this decision accomplished outside of a tribunal in the judicial system? Professor Marianne Skanland explains:
“Since this agreement has been reached only during or as a conclusion of the County Committee’s hearing, and since Barnevernet’s proposal was that all 5 children should be taken from the family permanently, the only probable interpretation is that the CC has put pressure on Barnevernet, and Barnevernet has not been too sure of winning so they have given in.
If they had entered into an agreement to return the children voluntarily, it could and would have been done months ago. So they have been pressed into it. For the CC, or a court, to put a certain amount of pressure on the parties to a case is of course quite regular; to reach agreements or compromises is one of the justice system’s regular functions.
All the best to the Bodnarius! Let us hope and pray that they may all recover as soon as possible and that the actions against the children by Barnevernet will not have too bad after-effects.”
We are now hoping that the great people of Norway will wake up and be repulsed at the confiscation practices of Barnevernet. They have the power to change their CPS and hold those who abuse their power responsible.
Delight in Truth 
This is such a fantastic news, I am so happy for this wonderful family. Finally a good news after all these months. The kids are returning to their home, where they belong. I wish them all the best and can not wait to see a new photo of this lovely family. To me, this family is a symbol of strength, I hope their case help all the other families as well in the future.
Next to it, I also have to say, that BV did absolutely nothing to help this family. How come that the children are returned now , just when their case was at the county committee. I totally agree with DiT, that they were pressed to unite them. I wonder what these help measure require? Hopefully it will be enough to sign a paper about not disciplining these children and this family will be left alone for good, there is so much good in the family. I wonder what the Norwegians think about it? What is they explanation?
A response that was sent to the Facebook Page of Ms. Solveig Horne, Norwegian Minister of Children and Equality:
June 3, 2016
Ms. Solveig Horne,
I have seen your photo on several websites and blogs. I must be honest. Several months ago, I hadn’t ever seen or heard of you. Now, when I see your face, I think of little children. I think of children who are taken from their parents for the most minor of reasons. I think of Norway’s Barnevernet.
I don’t have to tell you that most of the world disagrees with the policies of the BV. You already know that. You also are aware of the news that the Bodnariu’s will be returned to their family if you do not appeal the decision. I know you already know what you will do. You will probably not appeal and allow the embarrassment of the situation to subside. If you appeal you know the world will be angry.
I, for one. will not go away no matter which decision you make about how the CPS will now treat the Bodnariu family. Will there be an apology sent for keeping children from their parents for months? You have been hoping the masses will go away. You wish them to go nicely back to their homes and have no more demonstrations in the streets.
I will tell you this.
There will be another demonstration in my town. I know because I will organize it. All of the signs but one we have we can reuse because they had the BV name on them and not the Bodnariu name as some of us had foresight. My goal will be to have more people at the next protest in my town than we had in April. I hope to have better media coverage. I will have more time to plan it than I did the previous one. I will pick a date for this protest in the next few months.
“Why am I going to do this?” some may ask. My response will be: “The Bodnariu family was one of thousands and we must not forget those thousands who have been treated just like the Bodnarius. One family has been freed but a system that denies human rights and due process to families continues to operate as if nothing has happened. I cannot be silent.”
This will be my true reply, Ms. Horne. I hope someday that your policies will be changed and that people in Norway can go back to a life where they don’t always have to be concerned about a principal, a neighbor, a teacher, a pastor, a “friend,” or anyone making a statement about a family that starts a process where the children are never able to spend any time with their parents without the intruding eyes and presence of the Barnevernet until they are 18.
Chris Reimers
A very concerned American citizen
Great post Chris, it is very good to point out that even though its great that the Bodnariu will be reunited, this is not just about the Bodnariu. They have created something fantastic around the world a great unity against injustice. Now all the children who were unfairly taken has to go back to their loving parents. They need our support just as much.
One comment. I dont think that BV can appeal, since it was an agreement between Barnevernet, the parents and the municipality. This means they have made a settlement that these children will return home with help measure. BV only appeals when parents win the children back against the decision of BV. It is a bit confusing, since this agreement was made just after the county committee hearing and as stated above by Marianne, BV made it all the time clear that they intend to place these children in permanent foster care. There must have been a lot of pressure on them to do so and rightfully so.
This is excellent news. Thank you for sharing it with me, Pavla.
Actually, right after the decision, I read on some blog, which I can’t remember, about this “deal.” I was focused on a portion of the deal and missed this all important point you have made, Pavla.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t there something in the deal about the name of the Bodnariu’s not being “used” in some particular way? Can someone clarify this for me? What does this mean if the blog post I read was correct? This could be as simple as a blog error or it could be important. I guess I’ll eventually find out as the court documents should be made public soon.
Thank you again, Pavla. I am relieved for the Bodnariu family.
I have a feeling that they (Bodnariu) had to agree on not going more public with details in the case.
I also think that the deal was made before the County Welfare Board had made their decision, but Roald Vegsund, the lawyer of Naustdal, probably talked to the judge and got a hint that they (barnevernet) would lose.
Interesting enough, if Bodnariu hadn’t accepted the deal, they would probably still get the children back, but they probably just wouldn’t take that chance, and I don’t blame them for that at all.
“I have a feeling that they (Bodnariu) had to agree on not going more public with details in the case.”
I have the same feeling, Raymond. If we knew the details, it might be a bit easier to dismantle this evil system but I doubt it.
I don’t blame them for taking the deal while they had a chance that had a very slight possibility of disappearing, either.
You sure you weren’t in the courtroom, Raymond?
I think this deal was done at least a week ago. Check Øyvind Bang Olsens answers in the newspapers last week,he wanted to join Førde almost immediatly than. He knew something already than and was fed up by the CPS leader..
It would have been nice if you would have shared your thoughts with us a week ago, Topsy. What do you believe in again? I’m curious about your belief system.
Mr.Chris.
I did share it last week,but in Norwegian and as a response to Knut. I belive in facts and knowledge and “what comes around goes around”
It would have been nice had you shared it with us. You guessed obviously, Topsy.
The Bible says: “You reap what you sow.” It is a natural and spiritual law, Topsy.
Mr.Chris.“You reap what you sow”
Exactly:-)
And i am born and raised as a christian.
I didn’t ask you what you were born and raised as. I asked you what your belief system is (meaning currently), Yspot.
I thanked the Lord on my knees for the return of all Bodnariu kids. Justice is now done, but before that much pain and suffering has been done by barnevernet, they should be sued in court for their violations of human rights and emotional and psychological abuse in this and so many other families.
Great answer of you, Chris, to Mrs. Horne. We keep on praying and writing and acting. We expect MORE JUSTICE – MORE HUMANITY IN NORWAY –
LET THE CHILDREN BE SET FREE – greets from Belgium.
I am convinced that it is only prayer like you have done, lisette, that will continue to correct this awful situation in Norway and in countries like it. This struggle has just started. It took many years to put this “system” in place and it will take prayers to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to reverse the situation. One family has been saved for the time being. Thousands still live under brutal thumbs. Please keep praying. It is something that I am not good at but I try. We need God’s help in these child abuse matters.
Thank you for your kind words.
God’s blessings to you and your family…
I do my best, the Lord does the rest…
After I read about the Bodnariufamily and followed lots of comments on facebook in an attempt to understand what is happening in Norway, I got also in contact with victims of forced fostercare and forced adoption in the U.K. Less % than Norway, but more than half of the kids have been taken away for no good reasons … So I hope to continue reading, writing, protesting, supporting. Greets.
Yes, it is very bad in the U.K. also. I know a man who had his son taken because he was seen in a documentary. The other reason was that the Father’s parents were holocaust survivors.
It is quite the story. I am following it and posted a bit of it on my Facebook page today.
It is a start! Must continue by prayers and everything else that anyone of us can do for the Kingdom of God to spread on Earth!
lisettewillekens: “I do my best, the Lord does the rest…
After I read about the Bodnariufamily and followed lots of comments on facebook in an attempt to understand what is happening in Norway, I got also in contact with victims of forced fostercare and forced adoption in the U.K. Less % than Norway, but more than half of the kids have been taken away for no good reasons … So I hope to continue reading, writing, protesting, supporting. Greets.”
That is the very best reaction, lisette, it is we hope for: That more people will see that it concerns us all! Thank you for coming “onboard”! I am fairly sure that Britain is about as bad as Scandinavia at present, so any information and action regarding the victims there is very valuable.
My support to tha!
🙂
This is wonderful news! But, I’ll believe it when I see it. Too many families haven’t been reunited after a court orders Barnevernet to return stolen children. This case is different because of the massive, global publicity it has generated, to be sure. But, I still won’t believe it until those children are all reunited with their parents.
I also hope they are making plans to leave Norway for a saner country, like the US. I wouldn’t trust the vindictive CPS in Norwway to not cause the Bornariu family more pain. Both Marius and Ruth are well educated with good occupations (IT and nursing). Those skills are in demand in lots of good places.
cafesam: “Too many families haven’t been reunited after a court orders Barnevernet to return stolen children. ”
Yes, I agree. But in this case, we hear that the parties have entered into an agreement. I don’t know that it would be easy for Barnevernet to immediately set aside what they themselves have agreed to. So let’s hope they will now keep quiet and not harass the Bodnarius with their “help measures”, teaching them how to do parenting.
They have agreed to both cooperation and peace with the CPS in Naustdal and they want you chronics to no more use them as ammunition for the movement for “something else”.
In that agreement is help measures and to not let anybody inside or outside the family to get involved with what’s really happened in detail in the hearing or what the help measures in detail represent.
That is clear Knut. They want these supporters to go away and they want to go on with their abuses. BV in Naustdall has agreed on returning the children, because they were pressed to do it..Where would the Bodnariu kids be now, if there was not so much pressure put on them? Tell me, you, who clearly said, that it was very probably mistake done by BV in Naustdall and they are not going to admit their mistake. So now you turn it against all the people who were fighting for this family to be reunited. You were the one, who were saying, that the supporters can not change a thing in this case. Well guess what, they can. Without them, the Bodnariu children would not be at home and very likely would be placed in permanent foster care. That was their intention from the start. You know that yourself.
If you talk about Bodnariu, who dont want their supporters to use them as munition, then you are wrong. Yes, they want peace, but yes they are very grateful for all the support and help they got. The Bodnariu family has stated it just a while ago.
It is just after the hour, Pavla.
I think Knut has just clocked out. Just another day for Knut. This is why you get no reply.
Either that or he is thinking of how to say something and make it sound like something else.
People who fight against Barnevernet’s abuse are not “using” any Barnevern case for some ulterior purpose at all. Individual cases have to be brought into daylight, it is the only thing which can stop this terrible treatment of children and their families. This goes for the individual case, and it goes for the whole way Barnevern cases are conducted.
I am in doubt, however, that Mr Nygaard may be right that Naustdal has pressed hard for secrecy. If they have succeeded, the Bodnarius have probably been bound to silence about the whole case? (That is what our state tried on Adele Johansen, when she had won against Norway in the European Commission of Human Rights and the case was going to the Court. They wanted to pay her something in the neighbourhood of NOK 300,000 if she would drop the case AND never mention it again to anybody.) Nothing less than silence has a hope of saving Naustdal municipality’s prestige in their surroundings’ eyes, probably.
But it will hardly succeed, and shouldn’t. The way Barnevernet and their bosses in local and state administration and political bodies are frantically afraid that the reality of CPS cases gets out into the open, is one of the best proofs that this Barnevern business is very far from being a welfare service. It is Orwell’s “Newspeak”, isn’t it? And it’s like in Norwegian folk tales: If a troll is pulled out into the open and the sun rises on it, it bursts and disintegrates – like a balloon. That’s what Norwegian Barnevernet is in danger of – what any ideology which does not serve its declared purpose, and the people who promote it, stand in danger of.
It will be interesting, Marianne, to see the exact ruling and its interpretation.
There is a good chance that there are other court battles ahead based on the interpretation of the ruling. “And shouldn’t is right,” but it all depends on how each lawyer (or anyone for that matter) defines “used” if that is indeed the word that will be fought over.
This will not be a boring thing to watch, at least in my opinion.
No, this support has been both – it’s been out of control – out of language – led by misguiding chronics – led by pastors who see Satan in a public service in Norway with much the same CPS all over the Western world – it’s has been hypocracy de luxe in action.
It’s not hard to get sympathy for the B.’s, but the steared up crowd take away all that positive effect and the common Norwegian don’t take the conspiracy – don’t take the misguiding as real facts and see the supporters as lunatics. You have used the worst naming you can find about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS as a whole – this has all the way been a legal case between the CPS in the municipal Naustdal – a CPS have tried to do right an emergency – a sort of case that is rare and almost unexperienced in that municipal and the parents represented with one seperate lawyer each. The supporters took away the positive sympathy and gave the people no interest in neither the case or how it will end. This was a terribly bad organized support that did more harm than good.
Cases are won or lost all the time – most of them have no supporters at all. It’s in the hearing alone the case is either won or lost. Yeah – I think the parents should have talked to the Norwegian media a long time ago and the effect of that would have been sympathy from most of the common Norwegians – not for the spanking, but for the possibility of loosin all five children when they had not been on the CPS radar earlier.
The family have done the most the lawyers told them, but they failed when they shut them down in Norway and let them be freespeaking in the rest of the world. The B organization led by the brother and the pastor in Chicago will be the one’s responsible for the peace the B. family ask for.
What makes you believe, Knut, that the victims of Barnevernet are twisting the facts? How do you know that? “The official accusations” from BV may be fabricated also. It’s hilarious how you expect people to have a blind trust in your system while thousands of people say they suffered for the injustice done to them by Norwegian CPS. Whatever anyone would say about Norway, it MUST be added that the country has one of the most horrible CPS system on the planet.
I know that Arizona has one of the worst CPS in U.S. but this is because of Tucson, which is led by Mexican mafia. The city is not in the Phoenix area. The corruption from Tucson will be exposed soon by some competent members of an organization from Phoenix.
Let us know the story, Octavian and I will publish on DiT
Get a grip Knut!
The CPS did not do the right thing with Bodnariu, the CPS did wrong from the start. Why did not they bother to talk to the parents first? These parents would have cooperated immediatelly, I know that. Why did not they get a chance..Why was it necessary to act so brutally against this family and isolate the girls for months and place them hours away from their homes? What , exactly WHAT, has the CPS in Naustdall do to help to reunite the family, please tell me, i am all ears..
ANd I dont agree with all critics against Norway, I dont call names and dont use conspiracy theories, because its wrong. I actually do believe that there are good social workers there, but the whole system is wrong. System that can cover power abuse and carry on, is wrong. There are definitely children that can not be raised by their families, but then the extended family can take over..and the reason for the takeover should be very serious.
I have just posted on another forum. Imagine there would be a Norwegian family in Czechia, this family would loose children to the Czech CPS. After the police investigation and medical examination, the family would be cleared of all charges. Still the children would be kept in Czechia and contact with their biological Norwegian family would be very limited in the start to later no contact at all. At the contact visits the Norwegians would be forced to speak Czech (using translator). Even the Norwegian grandfather who was speaking Norwegian with his grandchildren could not speak with them in their language anymore. At the end the whole family would be completely cut off , not even allowed to call or send a postcard. Do you see how idiotic that is? If not, that I am sorry. These are facts, Knut, this is how Evas family gets treated now..4 years of absolutely no visitation for the grandfather, cousins etc. Can you excuse that?
I believe you, and it is wise for the moment just to rejoice and let things go calmer. The Lord be praised for this agreement and the healing that will follow… for there have been traumas, and He only knows when and how they are to heal.
But… the problem remains for so many children and parents. What about the couple formed of two deaf adults and their children who will forget the sign language and be lost forever…? What about the other families, known or not by the public, who are destroyed (as families, at least) by the life in foster homes that are no homes…? Did you read the Costea report…? Is this attorney completely wrong? You Norwegians are a very special (and young) nation, and your ideas about the human person, childhood and education, state ideology in it’s relationship with real lives… etc… all this is very very difficult to understand by us foreigners… and, especially the older, sharing very different values; like: any human being is “sacred history”, each one with his/her’s personality, mystery, needs, rights; any child with her/his right to be LOVED, respected, treated as a real child and not as an adult in miniature…You cannot protect children by blindly following legal procedures, without listening to your one’s heart. The CPS people must have hearts too, be parents, too. As for the poor folks earning their bread by fostering children separated from parents, necessarily without love (for love cannot rise just out of a job you have!)… some even without morality (if free unions became a normal thing and fostered children sometimes have to come to terms with a long line of concubines… what good could be expected? Yes, I think Norway has to reconsider it’s own complex of superiority. Of course, this will only happen in time, with God’s help. And you yourself can choose to be His instrument…
“(for love cannot rise just out of a job you have!)… some even without morality (if free unions became a normal thing and fostered children sometimes have to come to terms with a long line of concubines…”
You have made an interesting observation, agnesT. Aren’t “free unions” already somewhat common in Norway? This is one of the things that Christians are concerned about, obviously. Anyone who can see what the Bible says clearly about the issue would not want children exposed to it.
Hhhmmm… This sounds like rape. ‘Well, now that we have re-united your family, after months of torture and dismissal of parental rights, after destroying the children by keeping them away from their parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, you must understand you were asking for it, we are now doing you a favour by reuniting you all so now you better shut up and not say a word.’
Well Knut, your something else campaign is dead and lifeless. You are not a credible voice for the Bergen CPS, or any of them, seeing as you no longer work there. You disgraced yourself on Erna’s page as a man who did not know how to form a beginning and reach it’s conclusion cohesively.
We respect the family and will give them time to reunite and recover. But if you think we will stop fighting, you are wrong. We never used them as ammunition, we acknowledged them as victims. Which lead to information. And information lead to power.
No. The reunification of the Bodnariu family was just the first step. Now we really begin our fight.
And the hope Norwegians hold on the UN stats is dismal and completely irrelevant. For the UN to say Norway is a very developed nation obviously means they did not look deep enough or were sold out.
What? You think that I am stupid, that I have no idea what I am talking about and I have no respect for the UN because I say such things?
Let’s look at global organisations. The Olympics, FIFA, cricket, and so many others were once respectable, legit, honest organisations that were admirable and transparent in it’s attempt to unite the world under more relaxed circumstances. But watch them all fall under corruption and deceit.
And you think the UN is any more sacred than these? You think that it is an organisation to look up to and boast in? Well, for now it is trying to uphold it’s reputation but I have no doubt corruption exists and will soon be seen. Then how credible will you status be then?
All in all, I am SUPER glad the Bodnariu family are going to be reunited soon. While it is not ideal, I am glad to know it was not in vain and through them, the world has come to know of SO many people that need us to fight for them. To the shame of Norway, you make your own people suffer and you might think no one will fight for them, but you are wrong.
Like it or not, the ‘chronics’ are not going anywhere.
“The reunification of the Bodnariu family was just the first step. Now we really begin our fight.”
I so agree. I hope the demonstrations get larger as more people are made aware that thousands of families in Norway are in the same spot as the Bodnarius were but it is worse for them. They have not had huge demonstrations with their family names on posters. They have not had worldwide support.
The Barnevernet knows this and think the protests are over. As I informed an important Norwegian politician I will be having another demonstration in my town. I think there will be more there than the last time. People in the US are only beginning to hear of such crimes. They are only beginning to understand that a cruel, heartless, and ungodly system rules the Child Protective Services in Norway.
There are similar problems in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and the U.K. I can only focus on one country at a time. I have written and posted a few articles about abuses in the U.K. that are similar to those in Norway. Hopefully, once the current system in Norway is dismantled and those responsible for crimes against humanity sentenced, The focus can change to a different country. If the Norwegian system falls, maybe it will be easier to undo another nation.
I am not a fan of the U.N. I continually wonder why my country allows it to meet here as so many bad men have stepped to the microphone and spat at the U.S in the harshest of tones. I guess we are too good about freedom of speech when it comes to the U,N.
At the same time I believe this the the current U.N. stance on the problem in Norway:
Click to access critical-comments-to-norway-fourth-periodic-report-to-the-un-committee-on-the-rights-of-the-child-2008.pdf
The date on the letter is dated 2009 and as you can see the pdf has 2008 on it. It is a small portion of the highly critical report that I post here. One needs to read more of the report as it condemns Norway for it’s CPS system. AND SINCE THIS REPORT THINGS HAVE GOTTEN EVEN WORSE. I quote from a small portion of the condemning report:
“In the Committee’s concluding remarks (dated 3 July 2005) to Norway’s third periodic report to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, the CRC has voiced concern about the “…number of children who have been removed from their families and live in foster homes or other institutions” (point 23). Point 24 of the same document contains a concrete recommendation from the CRC to the Norwegian state to “take measures to address the causes of the rising number of children who are removed from their families, including through adequate support to biological parents.
The (Committee) encourages the State party to give priority to protecting the natural family environment and ensure that removal from the family and placement in foster care or institutions is used only as a measure of last resort when in the best interests of the child”. It is clear from the Committee’s concluding remarks that the Committee sees placement in foster case as distinct from the child’s natural family environment. We find it regrettable that the Norwegian state does not make this fundamental distinction when it mentions in point 224 of its fourth periodic Report that “The efforts to turn the use of measure from institution placing to more use of home based measures and foster homes continue”.
In our opinion the Norwegian state should account for the yearly increase in the number of children taken into public care in the period 2003 – 2006, including those placed in foster homes. We note with regret that the Norwegian state has instead attempted to present this development in a positive light by referring to the smaller percentage of children taken into care compared with those receiving home based help. We find it surprising that the Norwegian state has not reappraised its position on the use of foster homes in the light of the skepticism about this practice expressed in several official reports. For instance, in an Official Norwegian Report [2] on the Child Protection system in 4 Norway (NOU 2000: 12) one reads:
“Results from surveys on foster home placements provide no definite answer to whether foster care serves its purpose. A number of studies tend to show that even long term foster home placements do not compensate for the lack of progress at school” (our translation). This skepticism with regard to foster home placements is shared by the authors of a recent report [3] by the Norwegian Institute for
Urban and Regional Research (NIBR) who write:
“Foster placements are used in the Child Protection system both as an assistance measure and in care orders. These placements have not yet received the same negative publicity as institutional placements, in spite of a Danish study following a large review which questions the efficacy of foster home care throughout the world” (our translation).”
Thus, the UN has recognized this problem years ago and has made a recommendation that Norway ignores.
Do I wish the UN to have more power than it does? Actually, I wish it had less power and I will not take pages to explain except that the sovereignty of many nations has been diminished by the UN.
If someone can find a more current UN document which reverses the UN position on this matter, I would like to know.
There are many things the UN has done that I do respect. This report is one of those things. It is well-researched and documented. Although I wish the UN would go away as it is gaining influence that could possibly very detrimental to individual nations, it does some good things. It makes some good statements.
At the same time, I am thankful that it can only recommend what Norway should do. I take this position because if the UN gained the power to change Norway’s evil system, the same power could be used for the same evil. Norwegians are responsible for what happens within their country. Without the help of the UN, the citizens of the world have demonstrated in a worldwide demonstration in April. Those involved in that huge demonstration where thousands gathered in the streets to protest the Barnevernet’s policies are spreading the news. “Do you know what is happening in Norway?” they are asking their neighbors.
Norway had gone too far years ago. Collectively, the power of a worldwide movement based on this issue has probably had some impact on the decision of the Bodnariu family. I know that Knut would say otherwise. What if that movement grew? What if the next demonstration dwarfs the previous one? What if mainstream media like that in the U.S,, which has been way over-occupied with the upcoming election just to get ratings, begins to report such abuses?
I can’t say the above will happen but I do know this. There are documentaries being made in many places throughout the world about Norway’s problem. I have seen documentaries that are already out there about abuses in the U.K. The upcoming documentaries will be shared on social media with as many as will watch them. Most of the world is unaware of this problem, but even small groups in India and Pakistan were involved in the worldwide protest. This was not because of the UN. It was because a few people in those countries were made aware of this evil and do not want it in their world.
I have gone on very long and I apologize to Delight in Truth if I have taken up too much space. As this blog has been an excellent resource for me and others, I only hope to continue to help in the efforts to educate. We know who the expert is here and it is not me. I do not live in Norway and I have only become aware of this issue way after the UN report above was issued. I only wanted to bring it to other’s attention. There are other bodies like the UN in Europe that have issued similar reviews. They have all been ignored by the leaders in Norway. The people of the world and the people of Norway need to work together to end this madness. The Romanians have thus far been the most active on the issue speaking. Americans are second I think, but most American have yet to know.
Why do the Norwegian authorities not wish the Bodnarius to speak about their experience? I will leave that for you to figure out but the answer is simple.
I am not a UN supporter but I wish everyone in the world was as well informed as the people who put this document together. If that happened, there would be change.
“No, this support has been both – it’s been out of control – out of language – led by misguiding chronics – led by pastors who see Satan in a public service in Norway with much the same CPS all over the Western world – it’s has been hypocracy de luxe in action. ”
Knut, Satan is acting around me, in my workplace, and even trying to work in my own heart. Hopefully God is also at work…
What I see is wheat and weeds everywhere, why are you surprised if weeds could occur at your workplace?
In addition, it seems — alarmingly many cases plus concern letter plus frightening statistics allow the grounded suspicion — that there could be a culture that is more interested in concealing failures than dealing with them. (Well, this is again there in seeds in all human organizations. However it is the responsilibity of the leadership to deal with such a culture. That is really dangerous and could let evil to work free and without facing any boundaries at all.)
I know I am not formulating it as sharp as mr. Prunean — I do not agree with all his conclusions.
Exactly Marianne. It was an agreement and now its all over the news, that the children will go home. I think, in this case, this is really a victory. I wonder what these help measures will be. Hope BV wont harass the family, but I think they know its a lost case for them and will not try hard against them. They have met a strong opponent here 🙂
The internet is a tool that sure can to much good or harm, too. Most people understand that anyone can tell the stories they want on the net – they can make up all just for propaganda reasons – they can tell a story with some truth or twist the facts – not all done on purpose, but because their emotions are out of shape. As long as we don’t have links to some kind of information that back up a story it’s too airy. Links to real documents are hard to share on the net and I would not recommend that. Not to let anyone use your children as poster children too. The most common wrong with sharing a story is the omitting of the part the parents have in it.
So we can’t use the internet now, right Knut?
We are the ones with the credibility to this point here. You have been very deceptive and Bill Johnson? Please.
“Links to real documents are hard to share on the net and I would not recommend that.”
Now you are speaking against primary sources. Give me your primary documents and we will know the truth. We have not held ours back as far as I am aware.
One of” help measure “is not leaving the country for a certain period of time,i feel this was one condition of the agreement
Knut, I am greatly surprised.
You were the first to call attention to respect the privacy of the family, on request of both sides in the agreement. You seem to be also the first to disrespect this, or why are you blaming the Bodnariu parents?
I kindly ask you to remember the parable of the sawdust and the plank in the eyes. As a Barnevernet employee please look into Naustdal Barnevernet’s eyes first. Maybe it was their procedure, that has forced the parents to choose extraordinary decisions (which I find pretty justified, protecting children from abuse of authority is an extraordinary case, when going into public can be justified, and parents as legal guardians are fully entitled to make such an emergency decision).
“since Barnevernet’s proposal was that all 5 children should be taken from the family permanently”
This is beyond my understanding if I understand it correctly, Marianne.
Are you saying that in this case, the Barnevernet wanted to take all 5 children from the family meaning that they wanted to also take Baby Ezekiel back? It is there in black and white for me to read, only I can’t imagine this would be Barnevernet’s intention as presented to this CC.
Can you verify your quote made by DiT above? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your statement? I need some clarification on the BV’s intentions in this latest battle.
No, I can’t verify that that was what Naustdal demanded, but I have read several times that they wanted all five, including Ezekiel. Besides, it seems the most logical thing; why would Naustdal go to the CC at all if they didn’t want to keep the children?
Chris on the BOdnariu page it was stated that BV intends to take all 5 children and place each of them in separate foster homes. I will look if I can find it.
Yes Chris. Cps wanted to take all 5 children. The Cps leader was a proof of poor leadership, knowledge and experience .And we are ashamed by this.
The positive of this is that Norway is fronting a huge debate about every part of what has been done wrong.
But please: this is not representative to all of Norway. Give us some slack and logic.
So this is how you treat your comrades, Topsy. You have thrown her under the bus.
How is it that you know that the CPS wanted all 5? No one else seems to know what they wanted in this case recently.
“The positive of this is that Norway is fronting a huge debate about every part of what has been done wrong.”
To this point I have seen little debate. Now, because of this decision there will be debate but will it be about the “system.”
“But please: this is not representative to all of Norway. Give us some slack and logic.”
You haven’t seen many of my statements, Topsy.
Why are you afraid to tell me of your belief system? Some think you are a man. I think you are a woman. Which is it?
My comrades? Under the bus?
Nææ,this is constructive criticism. Knowledge is the keyword ;read and find information from every sorce you can get before you make up you mind.
The debate has already started: Bufdir has had a workshop about “akuttvedtak”and violence in families the last 10 mnds or so and it continous. This was desided looong before the Bodnariu case.It seems as the next theme is like Knut has been saying: a common platform on acutecases.
It is all about searching/googling. Solveig Horne and her department is continously working to improve the CPS in Norway.
Please stop focusing on innocent children and their names and pictures from now on!
My belife i: ” kardemommeloven”. What comes around goes around.
And i am unisex.
You are no different than Knut, Topsy. I can’t believe anything you say. There is a debate among the top brass but I don’t think it’s about what we wish it to be about.
“Please stop focusing on innocent children and their names and pictures from now on!”
You are asking me to do something I cannot do. You are asking nicely but I can’t stop focusing on the innocent.
Give me an example when I have used innocent children’s names and pictures.
Define unisex.
Mr.Chris.
What do you wish the debate should be about?
I KNOW there is a ongoing debate,but you will get proof by the end of the year.
And i am sorry i accused you when focusing on: children/posters/names – that was targeted to all that felt strucked.
Are you on something, YspoT?
Chris: ” “since Barnevernet’s proposal was that all 5 children should be taken from the family permanently”
This is beyond my understanding if I understand it correctly, Marianne.
Are you saying that in this case, the Barnevernet wanted to take all 5 children from the family meaning that they wanted to also take Baby Ezekiel back? It is there in black and white for me to read, only I can’t imagine this would be Barnevernet’s intention as presented to this CC.
Can you verify your quote made by DiT above? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your statement? I need some clarification on the BV’s intentions in this latest battle.”
Chris and Pavla, I think this is the original we were talking about, put out as an Official Statement by the coordinating team for the Bodnariu family. Of all places I found it on YOUR website, Chris! It is from 21 May:
The fact that you yourself published it, indicates, I am sure, that you are making such an effort to find, absorb and publish information about CPS atrocities all the time now that you do not remember in detail each article. Good on you! (Hehe, I sometimes see some formulations which sound vaguely well-known, and accidentally I come across where they are from: myself from a few years back. So I recognise the symptoms.)
In the above-mentioned official statement there is this, as the last part of a paragraph, plus as a quote above the picture:
“Barnevernet has clearly and unashamedly made known its intentions that it seeks to permanently remove all 5 of the Bodnariu children, including baby Levy Ezekiel, place each of them in separate foster homes, and only grant the parents, Marius & Ruth, limited visitation rights; a few hours per visit, four times a year.”
And this is from May. So at that time Barnevernet still stuck to its original purpose, apparently. They had no intention of calling off the whole procedure, and must therefore have been leaned on rather heavily in order to give that up. Whether there has actually been a formal meeting in the County Committee, where the parties confirmed that they wanted an agreement, does not matter; the case, with case documents, all have to be submitted before then, so that the parties and at least the lawyer who is going to function as Committee leader can read them. One can submit new documents after a case has opened in the committee, but they are only accepted if the Committee accepts such late paperwork. The case documents are usually present in the County Committee before the case actually starts to be processed.
How cool is this? Minds have glitches at times.
Thank you, Marianne.
Perfect Chris! 🙂 Your point of view is ALWAYS appreciated and very insightful. I don’t credit the UN either but Norwegians hang on it like air!
The answer to that I do think Topsy has the closest assumption to in her comment from the 27th of May – in Norwegian: Jeg tror du har mye rett angående rådmannen i Naustdal kommune og ett barnevern der nå uten den samme erfaring som hvor du arbeider. Slik jeg tolker media nå, vil rådmannen plutselig ha interkommunalt barnevernsamarbeid raskest mulig-før sommerferien! Og det uten at nabokommuner visste om det.
Fra å skryte om kompetansen og den faglige dyktigheten til at de nå har “støttehjul” via Fylkesmannen,tripplet bemanning på under 1 år og raser ned på kommunebarometeret,så vil han-den siste uken- bli kvitt “problemet”; ganske raskt! Så jeg er enig med deg i at det skurrer ang.rådmannen,men siden jeg ikke vet,så forsøker jeg være forsiktig.Noe sier meg han vet de har “gått i baret”og at han må rydde opp nå og at denne saken gikk helt av skaftet like etter den begynte. Så jeg heller mot ordet “prestisje” eller “vil ha anseelse” Og viser det seg at hele saken var basert på inkompetanse og mangel på erfaring (noe jeg tror), så trenger vi virkelig det du formidler;en felles plattform for akuttvedtak over hele landet. Horne har en jobb å gjøre der. Om barnevernet i Naustdal kommune har gjort en brøler, så er det en skam for Norge! Jeg påstår likevel at barnevernet i Norge er ett av de beste på denne kloden,selv om det er forsatt er under utvikling. Dere gjør en flott jobb,selv om enkeltsaker ødelegger for dere.
Jeg jobber absolutt ikke innen barnevernet,(er pensjonist) hadde ikke hatt nerver til det,men synes dere gjør en formidabel flott jobb og heier på dere. Håper du fortsatt har jobben din-og at du fortsatt vil tale barnevernets sak. Som nesten den eneste…..Berømmer deg det.
Nrk had these two articles the week before the hearing – the first article is based on information from a researcher that say that muncipalities with less than 15000 inhabitants can’t have a CPS of their own. Mrs. M commented this researcher with her bias thinking to be a help for the CPS to take children outside the municipality where the workers live – we live in different places anyway, Mrs. M. The researcher say the same as I have said earlier – small municpalities must cooperate with their neighbour(s). This coopertion will give them a more secure professional identity – the workers will be more trained and experienced – they will be less volunerable in vacancies, sick leaves and holidays – they can handle a CPS guarding of some kind.
In this first article the Council Man in Naustdal have lots of arguments against the considerations from the researcher, but says Naustdal hear what is said.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/forskar-meiner-sma-barnevernskontor-manglar-viktig-kompetanse-1.12961252
The next day Nrk had spoken with the neighbour municipalities that tell Naustdal that they are open to take the municipality in as coopertative partner. They said they hadn’t heard anything about this possible cooperation, but they have only good experiences and will welcome Naustdal if this become more a reality thinking.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/onskjer-naustdal-velkommen-til-eit-storre-felles-barnevern-1.12962741
Then later that same day – the 25th of May – Horne tells Nrk that she wants small municipalities to cooperate. Municipalities with under 3000 inhabitants – like Naustdal that has 2700 – is too small to build up an experienced and prodessional CPS. Here Horne and Mrs. M agree that the closeness between the families the CPS work with may be a problem.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/vil-ha-storre-barnevernskontor-1.12963761
The Council Man has – maybe – been a protector of “his” CPS and believed that they were competent. Now he begin to understand that mayby “his” CPS is out of order. He is now more confronted with the considerations “his” CPS produce compared with f.i. the district I work in.
The answer to that I do think Topsy has the closest assumption to in her comment from the 27th of May – you find her comment on “What’s wrong with this picture”.
Nrk had these two articles the week before the hearing – the first article is based on information from a researcher that say that muncipalities with less than 15000 inhabitants can’t have a CPS of their own. Mrs. M commented this researcher with her bias thinking to be a help for the CPS to take children outside the municipality where the workers live – we live in different places anyway, Mrs. M. The researcher say the same as I have said earlier – small municpalities must cooperate with their neighbour(s). This coopertion will give them a more secure professional identity – the workers will be more trained and experienced – they will be less volunerable in vacancies, sick leaves and holidays – they can handle a CPS guarding of some kind.
In this first article the Council Man in Naustdal have lots of arguments against the considerations from the researcher, but says Naustdal hear what is said.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/forskar-meiner-sma-barnevernskontor-manglar-viktig-kompetanse-1.12961252
The next day Nrk had spoken with the neighbour municipalities that tell Naustdal that they are open to take the municipality in as coopertative partner. They said they hadn’t heard anything about this possible cooperation, but they have only good experiences and will welcome Naustdal if this become more a reality thinking.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/onskjer-naustdal-velkommen-til-eit-storre-felles-barnevern-1.12962741
Then later that same day – the 25th of May – Horne tells Nrk that she wants small municipalities to cooperate. Municipalities with under 3000 inhabitants – like Naustdal that has 2700 – is too small to build up an experienced and prodessional CPS. Here Horne and Mrs. M agree that the closeness between the families the CPS work with may be a problem.
https://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/vil-ha-storre-barnevernskontor-1.12963761
The Council Man has up to now been a protector of “his” CPS and believed that they were competent. Now he begin to understand that mayby “his” CPS is out of order. He is now more confronted with the considerations “his” CPS produce compared with f.i. the district I work in.
Hi Marianne,
yes it was published on the official Bodnariu page, which is , I think, run by the brother and sisters of Marius. I think we can not get more official source than this one. That is why I find it weird, that Veronika, Knut and Topsy think, that the agreement was prepared for longer period of time. THis statement was published only few days before the CC hearing.
Next to it, I hope as we speak (write) that the family is reunited. I wonder whether the Bodnariu girls will go back to their old school and how that will be for them. In the BBC interview Marius said, that the school told to the other kids, that they have moved. Anyway I hope they can heal and overcome this trauma.
Knut Nygaard, the horror that Barnevernet brought to this family and many other families cannot be described in the words. Therefore, the crimes against humanity practiced in Norway shall be punished by the international community. I know very well that when you practice the evil it becomes normal to you but not to the world that is observing. I strongly believe that every person on this planet should be aware about the abuses of so called “Child Protective Services” in Norway. “Militia” under Ceausescu protected us from some thieves and criminals but at the same time themselves were criminals for they condemned innocent people. It’s exactly the same what’s happening now in Norway. You said that it’s not difficult to get sympathy for B. family but our attitude takes away all the positive effect… Do you think that this family and thousands of other families need your sympathy? They need JUSTICE. It seems like you are very familiar with victims trying to get your sympathy to get their children back. You, Barnevernet employees, consider yourself the center of the Universe. It’s Norway’s fault that it gave you so much authority and allow you to abuse so many families that live in Norway. It’s ridiculous how Norwegians have the audacity to vote their country as one of the best for families since it’s the other way around!
We are just doing a necessary public service. As I told the Naustdal CPS – they are not on the same level as most of us other municipalities. Now they have taken the message. You have much of the same service in your own backyard, Octavian.
Hey Octavian,
Knut beats that same old drum again. It is getting boring.
Hope from now on cps will do only the necessary work and not the unnecessary,knut!
Octavian to Mr Nygaard: “Do you think that this family and thousands of other families need your sympathy? They need JUSTICE.”
Yes indeed. But Barnevernet’s people are used to going about cases in just this way: If they LIKE the parents, if the parents get their SYMPATHY, then Barnevernet may help them. Otherwise the opposite reaction: Barnevernet actions as if their own liking of the family is legitimate reason enough to decide the family’s fate. Whereas what SHOULD be guiding their actions should be in the REAL best interest of the children and their loved ones, irrespective of what Barnevernet’s functionaries think of the family and what the family thinks of them. JUSTICE means that the family has a right to independence from Barnevern functionaries’ personal attitudes and feelings. This right does not exist in Norway these days. So regarding matters of children and families, Norway is not a country under the rule of ACCEPTABLE law.
Mr Nygaard says: “… this has all the way been a legal case between the CPS in the municipal Naustdal – a CPS have tried to do right an emergency – a sort of case that is rare and almost unexperienced in that municipal and the parents represented with one seperate lawyer each.”
It is the second time he has complained about the parents have separate lawyers, as if that brands them as underhand, unworthy, devious, not good parents. I wrote the last time that even though Mr Nygaard claims not to have heard of such cases before, I have, I have even been a witness in such cases, and it is a very ordinary thing. In criminal cases it is even usual, but it is also a safe-guard in Barnevern cases. Ah, but of course Mr Nygaard does not want families to have any safeguards against them.
Mr Nygaard again: “The supporters took away the positive sympathy and gave the people no interest in neither the case or how it will end. This was a terribly bad organized support that did more harm than good.”
Aha, Mr Nygaard would have preferred the family to deliver their fate into the hands of the Norwegian press! That, he thinks, would have made people around the land get up sympathy for the Bodnarius. – At the same time he repeats and repeats that the case is nothing to do with anybody outside the circle of those formally represented in the CC and court cases! Seems somewhat contradictory to me. What then would have been the use of wishy-washy “sympathy” from the Norwegian population? Anyway, the Norwegian population is well-known to sit absolutely still. The poet Arnulf Øverland’s famous poem (about the coming World War II) really characterises us brilliantly: “(You must not ) sit in your home and say ‘How sad. Pity for them.’ ”
Last: Mr Nygaard has a high-god of his own: the official documents. It is as if he believes they have an especially magical status: If things are written in a document in a court case, it is a fact, he thinks. At least if it has been written by Barnevernet, their lawyer, or in a judgment he likes. Well, I have read dozens of such judgments, and I have read it must be more than a couple of thousand pages of case documents by now. What is written on “a page” has no more truth value than what it claims to be a statement of, of course. There is nothing mysterious about case documents in legal cases. They often lie, without the liars being taken to task by the court, they often misinterpret facts, some are slanted, unbalanced – – just as others are truthful and good characterisations of realities. They are not, just because they are found on a piece of paper, inherently more truthful or valuable than a spoken word, an observed action.
So VERY well said, Octavian.
A service does not have an enforcers (beasts like you )that walk in a house an remove a child because someone said something.It’s simply a service.
The barnevernet is more than a service it’s a tool to destruct normal families
Our minds think alike, TD.
Pingback: Primul articol in limba engleza despre victoria fam. Bodnariu impotriva Barnevernet! | Pastor Ciprian Barsan
Reblogged this on ANA TATAR ANDRAS.
That’s wonderful news. There might be many factors that concluded to their innocence but I would limit the explanation for now to Ecclesiastes Chapter 5: vers 8.
I strongly believe that He (the Highest official) holds the Earth in His hands. Praise God for He answered our prayers!
Reblogged this on B a r z i l a i – e n – D a n (Un Barzilai izvorât din Dan).
wonderful news…..God has used this precious family as a sword in His hand to expose this evil system….
much prayer and fasting has been offered on behalf of the Bodnarius from thousands of people around the globe and now i am going to keep praying that other families, who have been the victim of this cruel system , will have their own children returned……. pray that this will become a movement that stands up for justice and says……we will not be bullied, we will not be intimidated or live in fear……but we will trust in and have faith in the MOST HIGH GOD…..who hears the prayers of His people…..people who have clean hands and clean hearts.. and become courageous and bold…..and return true justice to the earth through their prayers…..see Psalms 82 and James 5 verses 17 and 18 regarding Elijah…..
.
To God be the Glory for hearing our prayers and giving victory!!!!
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Putem vedea inca odata ca DUMNEZEUL NOSTRU ESTE MARE,EL ESTE ACELASI IERI ASTAZI SI IN VECI.SLAVIT SA FIE EL .NOI II MULTUMIM SI PENTRU ACEASTA MINUNE CARE NUMAI EL O POATE FACE SI NE BUCURAM IN DOMNUL.
Mr. Are you the one that offered info to Norwegian media about the protests? There was a pastor with this name that told Norwegian media that people have no reason to fear Barnevernet for he trusts the system. That person kind of spoke against victims of Barnevernet.
The pastor who gave support to Barnevernet is a Romanian in Norway by the name of Benjamin Ciuciu
I was quite surprised that the UK national broadcaster BBC (reputed to be left-wing and anti-Christian) did a TV documentary in its “Our World” series which was broadly favourable to the Bodnarius and broadly sceptical of Barnevernet. I’m sure that must have created ripples (if not waves) in Norway!
Thanks for that information, Peter. It is another shot of hope.
Reblogged this on agnus dei – english + romanian blog and commented:
What an awesome day! Delight in Truth has been instrumental in this case for publishing life saving posts, and doing so in the English language, the language understood by most people around the world. I am almost certain that some families have been saved by their reading of the valuable information published here. May God richly bless the blog owner, a man of God, and a voice for those most vulnerable, we are honored to know and collaborate with such a man and may God use us in advancing His kingdom and in helping our brothers and sisters and anyone that God sends our way!
Here, now, is the post we’ve all been waiting for:
Rodi, thanks for all your support all along. You have been absolutely instrumental in this fight, as has Cristian Ionescu as the leader of the movement. All glory belongs to God.
Amen. Pastor Cristian Ionescu has proven himself as a worldwide leader and the unity of the churches would have never happened without in this way without him. God worked mightily and beyond our human expectations through the pastor. As dor us, we are thankful and humbled to be servants of the LIVING GOD.
Reblogged this on newlife.
Minunat sa incepi ziua cu lacrimi de bucurie la vesti bune. Aceasta victorie a atribuim Domnului nostru. Slava Lui!
Reblogged this on Dumnezeu e în control.
After reading some of the comments above, I am wondering how legal are the conditions imposed on the Bodnarius by the CPS?
1. Don’t make it public.
2. Don’t allow members from outside of the family to help out and intervene.
3. Don’t leave Norway for a period of time.
etc….
What’s going on? With these conditions, Norway (via Barnevernet) is violating the human rights yet again!…
If Barnevernet is so honest and above board, then why all these conditions? Could it be that Barnevernet is planning another attack against the Bodnarius, and this time the Bodnarius won’t be able to defend themselves because they’ve agreed to those silly conditions?…
What’s wrong with making the case public? Why not allow others to come to the rescue? How does Barnevernet define “period of time” – is it 20 years, 30 years? Who defines what the time period is, and based on what criteria?
Barnevernet is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and given their criminal record, I wouldn’t trust that organization with anything…
Yes, Ovidiu, such are the conditions Barnevernet regularly use, regularly. I know people personally who have been threatened directly: If you take part in that demonstration, or that group speaking about reform of Barnevernet, we will take your children directly.
And our eminent authorities on all levels accept it and agree with it. A national characteristic: Everybody agree with our authorities. Free speech, about trivialities, like do you prefer salmon with dill or with parsley. Another national characteristic perhaps: cowardice.
Here you have the incomparable head administrator of Naustdal municipality, speaking about the agreement of yesterday: Øyvind Bang-Olsen. He says:
“We have focused on the children’s best”, and further down:
“– It is always the municipality’s duty to take the best interest of the children into account. In this case we have seen that cooperation is for the best”, and
“He confirms that the case has been difficult for all parties. But will not be self-critical about the way the case has been handled. And thinks it was right to take the children from the parents earlier. – The accute placement has been confirmed by two court instances. The parents’ judicial protection has been protected and the municipality has also presented this in the two court procedures.”
So how does it all hang together?
Answer: It doesn’t.
You can see again and again that Mr Nygaard, who is a very typical Barnevern worker in the opinions he presents, says e.g. that the parents should have spoken to the Norwegian press to gain national sympathy, but not to the foreign press to gain international sympathy. You can also see how our authorities (and Mr Nygaard is the same!) have continued their boring “information” about the formalities of our child protection laws and regulations, and have countered every meaningful question from abroad about the inner realities of actual cases, with their “We do not have the power to go into actual individual cases.”
It is all the mumbo-jumbo talk of a dictatorship. It is of no help that Norway is very good for all those who are not hit by Barnevernet or by our psychiatric health practice (including the mental hospitals) or by some other more peripheral part of society’s care. For within these areas, Norway is far from a humane, enlightened society under the rule of acceptable law. You see it precisely in the way our authorities try to silence opposition.
Link to the article where the head administrator of Naustdal is interviewed:
– Vi har fokusert på barnas beste
https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/_-vi-har-fokusert-pa-barnas-beste-1.12981760
Hi Marianne,
I would really like to know, officially, what the conditions in this case are. I would like to read the actual resulting document.
Do you think we will ever be allowed to see it?
Isn’t there a law in Norway like America’s FOI, that mandates transparency in these situations?
You make some very good observations, Ovidiu.
Do you know if the time specified to stay in Norway was a concrete number?
“Could it be that Barnevernet is planning another attack against the Bodnarius, and this time the Bodnarius won’t be able to defend themselves because they’ve agreed to those silly conditions?”
The Bodnarius will never be free of the system now. They will be watched for any violations of any conditions. And they will be monitored closely I can assure you. I know nothing about governmental wiretapping laws in Norway. Are these allowed like they are in some cases in the U.S.? Someone in Norway help me with an answer to this please.
“I know nothing about governmental wiretapping laws in Norway.”
Yes, they are allowed, Chris. And just these days the police won through in our parliament to have their scope of monitoring telephones, computers, mails – even mails while people are typing them, even if they do not after all send them – of monitoring and using all that in evidence. Ane there need be no initial crime, just the police’s suspicion that someone may be going to commit some serious crime, at some time, will be enough. It SOUNDS all right, maybe, when they say what they mean by “serious” crime: terrorism, murder, …. But we have for many years now had our authorities manipulate the Norwegian population into believing that ANYTHING to do with children falls into the slot “serious crime”. So it is only a matter of time, if that.
Of course Barnevernet’s people have been spending a lot of time searching on the web for CPS victims who write, who could possibly be writing under this and that nick, and blaming them for this in court, trying to scandalise them in the eyes of County Committees and courts and in the eyes of the mainstream media and so on. But this new legislation will probably open the door even further for Barnevernet to call on the police to investigate for them.
As it is considered “violence” in Norway to spank a child and since I have just been made aware that a young mother’s crime was that her child was a bit underweight but within the normal range. This is why her child was taken and has yet to be returned.
Thus, these cases would fall under the BV’s definition of “violence” and “crime.” If the BV and the police collaborate, there will be no privacy in any home the BV wishes to watch. It is “1984” in 2016.
My apologies, Marianne. That was an awful fragment that I have made and am sure you noticed.
Thank you for bringing me “up to speed” on recent developments in Norwegian law even though it is another sad day in your country.
Yes Ovidiu and Marianne, I was thinking the same, in such a “democratic” country as Norway are they going to put a pressure on parents, so they will not speak about their case? It should be right of the parents, its about them.
Next to it, I am disapointed with the norwegian media. Do they just copy paste what is known, plus they add an interview with the CPS chief who will of course claim that all was done for the best interest of children? I am sorry but where are some critical questions from the journalists, where are their own assumptions..Why dont they find it weird, that the family is reunited now, just after the County committee hearing? Why dont they talk about separation anxiety. Why dont they dig a little bit deeper than that? Even if that is not under news chapter, but opinions chapter. I miss that part. I am afraid the majority of Norwegians will accept this version and might believe that it was indeed necessary to remove the children and now barnevernet (because they always have the best interest in their mind) will try to reunite the family. I hope I am wrong in this one and the Norwegians will start to doubt it. I hope so.
I am happy that Norwegian media inform in balanced and serious way about these cases. Police investigation regarding to domestic violence hasn´t finished yet, but this family and social services has accepted the deal (which had been discussed for longer period and they had been adviced by one legal company) to monitor situation at home and to build safety and stability for children. It´s fine, but it has happened in many more cases in Norway- so the outcome and previous investigation is not suprising for Norwegian journalists Bussiness as usual they would say.
Even for very famous critical psychologist Salvesen is this deal the example of good job of the system (in this case):
Eg er utruleg letta. Dette er ei heilt rett avgjerd, seier Salvesen til Dagen.
– Det var fantastisk å få desse nyheitene. Eg har hatt mange saker der eg har gjort dårlege erfaringar. No er det godt å oppleve at systemet har fungert, legg han til. (the system has worked at the end of this case).
The deal has been discussed for a long period of time? How do you mean. Just before the court, the family has stated that BV has still the intention to remove all 5 children permanently from the parents and split them into separate foster homes and allow the parents few hours a year visitation. I have not hear anything about any deal or cooperation. Maybe you read something in the media? I dont know, thats not what the Bodnariu say though.
Longer period of time. The private party hired a private law firm to reach an agreement (it takes some time to get to it) and it seems to me that the County Board has not been involved in the process at all. I read several Norwegian newspapers and there were not any notice about a new County Board hearing in any of them. Has the court (County Board hearing taken place? It´s no clear to me).
The statement from the private law firm spokeperson:
The child welfare service in Naustdal municipality and the private parties have agreed to the return of children to their parents and an agreement on cooperation on assistance measures for parents and children, said the law firm Stiegler in a statement.
Under the agreement Naustdal municipality and parents are now entering a new phase where one tries to create a stable and safe situation for the family.
The law firm stated that the parties want peace in the matter for the sake of the children. (© NTB)
“The law firm stated that the parties want peace in the matter for the sake of the children.”
I would be nice, Veronika, if all parties in Norway wished for peace. I have just seen yet another video where a baby was taken from its mother’s breast because it was deemed underweight though it fit within the normal standards. There is no peace in Norway until these inhumane conditions continue. Even appeals to the Embassy went unheeded. You guys must feel pretty impenetrable. Evil will be rid of some day, Veronika, in spite of B.V.’s plans.
“Even for very famous critical psychologist Salvesen is this deal the example of good job of the system (in this case):
Eg er utruleg letta. Dette er ei heilt rett avgjerd, seier Salvesen til Dagen.
– Det var fantastisk å få desse nyheitene. Eg har hatt mange saker der eg har gjort dårlege erfaringar. No er det godt å oppleve at systemet har fungert, legg han til. (the system has worked at the end of this case).”
Salvesen does not say that the system has worked at THE END of the case. He says it is a proof that the system working.
So that remains his opinion: he believes that a system is working which finally sets children free after they have been held by force separated from their parents (asking at every visitation why they could not go home with their parents and crying at separation) for more than 6 months.
Salvesen is in no way a basic critic of the Barnevern system of Norway. He has worked for Barnevernet for years, advising them. Only a few years ago did a very resourceful lawyer bring him into a particular case and placed him in such a position that Salvesen could not avoid seeing what was going on.
On a general basis, Salvesen thinks CPS activities and cases should proceed as before, he only wants more psychologists into them: at least two or three in every case. That will be “wonderful” for the families exposed at the same time to several of the psychologists who are Barnevernet’s usual supporters and make their whole income out of work for Barnevernet. The way things are, families are exposed to several psychologists, but at different times in the whole dragged-out County Committee (CC) and court process, or when the parents apply to have the case re-opened. (This is necessary if the children have been away and the parents want to try to get them back: It is not like an ordinary case where you have the right to take up a case in the court system. In order to get a Barnevern case taken up again because you want an earlier decision or judgment reversed, you have to ASK Barnevernet please to take the case up with the CC again, and it has to go through the CC, before you can raise the case with a court. And although Barnevernet is obligated to take the case up after a year, they will start up by demanding that you have a new psychological evaluation, to see if you have “improved”, and various other demands are made on you, so in practice it may take months before the case gets anywhere near the process in the CC again.)
” The private party hired a private law firm to reach an agreement (it takes some time to get to it) and it seems to me that the County Board has not been involved in the process at all. I read several Norwegian newspapers and there were not any notice about a new County Board hearing in any of them.”
The case must indeed have been in the hands of the CC, it has been booked long ago, and the preparations for it have clearly been going forward. An agreement can be reached at any time while a case is being prepared, or can indeed be reached during a CC or court procedure. When that happens in the course of the process or few days before, it is because Barnevernet has been pressured into backing down, most likely by the CC leader, or else by someone higher up. The kind of agreement they have got, they know perfectly well that the parents would have entered into months ago, stil Barnevernet went for taking all five children into permanent care.
Although the making of an agreement is perfectly regular from the point of view of the functioning of the system, it is not at all usual for a Barnevern to give in and enter into an agreement with a family once they have gone to the CC with a demand for lasting foster care. In fact, one person who works in a side-function in the care system and has done so for many years, and who is very well informed, told me he has never seen any Barnevern accept any such agreement previously at any time. They go through the system hoping to get the CC to approve, if not they bring the case to the District Court with the wame claims as they made before the CC, appeal it from there to the Appeal Court if they lose, and so on.
“There is no peace in Norway until these inhumane conditions continue.”
Oops. How about:
There is no peace in Norway until these inhumane conditions are eradicated.
There is no sanity in such a system, Marianne.
After what you have shared, I cannot respect statements from very famous critical psychologists when they lack righteousness,
Chris: “After what you have shared, I cannot respect statements from very famous critical psychologists when they lack righteousness,”
Most of them are like that. Einar Salvesen is a lot better than many. But of course he was in the tv debate program on 21 April. When the turn came to him, he started off by saying that Barnevernet were by and large excellent, they did about 80 per cent right. It was only that …..
One motive is very likely that he thinks so. Another, which seems prevalent with most of the critics who have joined in signing the “call of concern” to the government a year ago, is that they want to “get into position” with the government, the Ministry, and parliament members, so they go about it like sensible people wanting to have sensible discussions about a few sensible changes to a sensible system. It is a reasonable way to try to wield influence. I was thinking partly in that way long ago, but that was before about 1997. By then (and several times after) I have seen what comes of these gentle approaches to people with power who are ignorant of the realities behind the system’s facade and want to keep the status quo, and therefore only PRETEND to listen to people with very legitimate complaints and information.
You don’t have to wait 12 months before you ASK barnevernet to get a new evaluation in County Welfare Court. You can TELL barnevernet that you want a new one anytime before the 12 months have gone, and barnevernet is OBLIGATED to report the new case to County Welfare Board, who then again schedule it so it falls after the 12 month limit. This has been done by several lawyers now and there’s a decision in higher court about the OBLIGATION of barnevernet to do this WITHOUT any investigation and delay. since it takes 3-6 months before County Welfare Board can schedule a case, it’s probably best to tell barnevernet that you want a new case about 6 months after the last decision in the case.
It all fits, Marianne. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
“I have seen what comes of these gentle approaches to people with power who are ignorant of the realities behind the system’s facade and want to keep the status quo, and therefore only PRETEND to listen to people with very legitimate complaints and information.”
They are ignorant to realities and pretend to listen; it is a summary of the world’s politicians today.
Thank you Marianne for sharing your info. Indeed it is very suspicious that such an agreement was closed now after the CC hearing, when the intentions n of BV to place the children in foster care permanently, were stated just before the hearing. Why would they wait untill the last moment and did not try to make this agreement before? Unfortunately I am afraid the majority of norwegians will believe this.
I am quite a fan of Salvesen though, I share his TV video very often. He is such a spot on in the things he criticizes, that I forgive him the 80 % great job done by BV. Anyway you might be right in your assumption in why he is saying that. I still think he is very important critic. He must know the system very well.
I’m quite sure that Salvesen say 80% is good because 80% of barnevernets cases are help in the homer. The rest is care takeovers. And that’s the 20% that is not good. 🙂
And, in order for him to get in dialog with barnevernet, he need to give them some credit, else he has no chance to get in position to influence with his knowledge.
What Raymond says about speeding the treacle up sounds very good! It is indecently slow anyway.
Paula about Salvesen:
Yes, of course he knows the system. But who doesn’t? And he has sailed up recently, while there have been better people, psychologists too, fighting this long before, with greater seriousness. I do not like his ideas of psychologists getting an even greater place, with increased powers, in child affairs, because it is so clearly the quack psychology which has caused all this CPS ideology. The last 10 years “attachment theory” has been their greatest tool, and it is causing most of the harm, because it is unscientific and wrongly based. And the really important evidence from serious studies, which is there to find and has been found by lots of CPS critics, the psychologists are mostly ignorant of, and don’t want to hear about it or read it. They are satisfied when they can pretend to forecast – while paying no attention to statistics, which never go in their favour, or to their own lack of a basis for forecasting.
The other dangerous group is the lawyers and jurists. They want more power for the justice system, with themselves in central positions, but they have gullibly bowed to all the psychobabble for years, and will continue to do so. So they are the most guilty of having let the disasters be endorsed by the justice system, no outspoken opposition, mostly formalism: Have such and such people signed the papers, have such and such instances checked on whether all relevant persons have said and done such and such. They are satisfied when cases are milled through the system in a formally correct way, never mind whether there is any justice or realism in it.
Practically a hundred per cent of the cases come up with judgments which cement previous decisions and judgments.
Marianne is ofc right about psychologists, lawyers and so. This is their bread and butter, so to speak. Who want to change this system that they make good money on? Only the few that has conscience and honor.
Re what Raymond says about me often being right about lawyers and psychologists: Thank you, Raymond, it warms my heart, but this time I really don’t deserve any praise. If 95% of clinical psychologists taking on Barnevern cases are awful, then I would anyway be 95% right if I predicted that they were all going to be awful!
The CPS psychologist in the Bodnariu case was very good. CPS appointed psychologist who described the BOdnariu as loving parents and their home as a good home. I hope there will be more like that.
I still do have trust in Salvesen though, I think he does a great job in individual cases where he is convinced that injustice was done.
Ken also had a good psychological evaluation, unfortunately that was not enough..I hope that the psychologists will become truly independent and make objective evaluations. I hear its not the case at the moment and that is surely one part of the problem.
I dont believe that, sorry. The family made a statement just before the county committee that BV intends to remove all of the 5 children. They asked just before the committee that people will pray for them. There was not one single word about any kind of cooperation. It will be more likely, that BV knew they are going to loose just before, or after the hearing in CC has started. So to make it look as agreement was the only way to save their reputation, if they had lost it would be bad for them. And now they present it to the norwegian media, so people will not question it., they make it look as it was their own initiative.
Makes perfect sense to me, Pavla.
You don´t know the background of the agreement and me neither. But it takes time to write this agreement, longer time than 2 days for example (the specific measures are written in the agreement, but the family promised not to speak about remedial action and about case anymore,). The parents wouldn´t have the need to sign up the agreement if it was highly propable that the CPS is going to lose the case.But we don´t know and it seems that there won´t be any open information anymore.
BTW Ruth and Marius did not publish anything in recent months, some activists were spreading the information which could be misleading…You hadn´t anything from the so called first hand.
Veronika, do you mean this one, the official source of all information about the case? http://bodnariufamily.org/. This is made by the family.
Btw. why did not BV intend to place the children in the extended family? Why did they want to place each of them in separate foster homes, far away, split from each other permanently?. As Marianne said, they rarely place children in the biological family, because that means keeping the bonds. They did not even try to look there in the first place.
Btw. when Einar Salvesen said that the system works I think he did not mean that BV works..the system including county committee and courts.
Thank you Chris , its appreciated. Of course we all take sides, I choose to trust the family. Others can trust the official authorities. Everybody has a choice..
Pavla: “Btw. when Einar Salvesen said that the system works I think he did not mean that BV works..the system including county committee and courts.”
I wish that were so.
The CC system certainly does not work in 80 per cent of the cases, nor does the court system. You seem to believe it because Salvesen said so? By far most of the cases which the families do NOT win in any way are just as unjustified as the Bodnariu case.
To start with, Einar Salvesen was so surprised at being shown by the lawyer, in the first case where he was made to see reality, what it was like. He declared that he couldn’t believe it. So he certainly had not learnt, in his years of advising Barnevernet, about the way it really was.
I would not be so stern if it were not for the fact that he talks so differently in public from what he does sometimes behind the scene. Publicly he does not want to distance himself from all his colleagues, it is easier to sell out the families and say that 80 per cent of them are treated all right in the court system. That is not what the few lawyers who both know and are unafraid, say, when they have taken cases through it.
I don’t judge Salvesen for taking so long to understand that this system if wrong. Recently, I had dinner with 3 lawyers, and one of them told me it took many years before she understood how it was to be on the family side, and how wrong it was. Remember, the way barnevernet present cases is often very convincing. It takes som deep investigation on the family side to fully understand that cases are manipulated. And, as you say yourself, maybe they do understand, but they don’t wanna ruin their bread and butter. If they criticize too hard, they might be afraid of their own children since they must be fully aware of how easy it is for barnevernet to take anyone’s kids. I myself have spoken to many lawyers, politicians, pro-barnevern people and employees of barnevernet of the way I look at things, and have managed to change their perception of not only families in trouble, but also children that have grew up in barnevernets containment. It has given me a lot of pleasure to see the change I have been able to fulfill in this matter. There’s a lot of work to do with such, and our association is planning to hold seminars to put a spotlight into the “other side” so there will be no doubt.
Marianne, no, I dont take it over, just because he stated that. Actually I was thinking (and I know that others too) about those 80 % working well. I dont know what his intention are in that one. But I really think his video about the psychological reports was very good. And he was describing one case, where he was expert, where the whole system has failed on all levels. From CPS , county committee , courts. Actually I share it a lot. I know he was involved in the Bodnariu case as well and was saying that it was a big mistake to take the children. His statement that combination of incompetence and power in CPS, that is what they have to get rid off, because it leads to tragedies..is also very good. So in the part he criticizes he seems very strong and convincing. But I understand what you are saying about the rest..
I wish I knew norwegian, so I could understand the second half of the video 🙂
The video with Salvesen? Is it only half way subtitled?
Raymond on JUNE 6, 2016 @ 4:28 PM:
Very thoughtful remarks you have there. Yes, I am sure I am too judgmental. I would like to see them all (the lawyers and psychobabblers, not the children) in Barnevernet’s real power for some weeks or months. Practical education for them. All the better that I am not going to be working in the Justice Ministry.
Your description of the lawyer who had taken years also illustrates that a change in textbooks and teaching of Barnevern law in the Law faculties is urgently needed. It shouldn’t have to take years to get out of the false ideology.
I think so Raymond, I have not looked for a while though.
“to monitor situation at home” This could mean anything, Veronika. It could mean a once a week visit or it could mean some agent of the B.V. moving into the Bodnariu home.
I can’t imagine the Bodnariu lawyers allowing such a thing but I would like to know the specifics.
“I am happy that Norwegian media inform in balanced and serious way about these cases.”
Seriously?
I will say this for you. You have finally given yourself a last name. Anyone can click on my name and go to my blog and see who I am. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is not possible for you. I have no time to check out if your name actually exists and It really doesn’t matter. Either way your statements show that you are for this system of cruelty. That’s all I need to know.
This post says it all about the movement. You don’t know more than you can read in the paper and what you get from the B. headquarter – of cause you can’t – you have not been a legal part in the case or in the hearing. We all stay on the outside looking in – but – in that gap – where now one really knows Mrs. M – the retired language professor that read some pages in some cases many years ago is the one that take the position to assume up to reality what has been going on behind closed doors. We who can read and even assume better than Mrs. M know that her assumptions are led by a fear of loosing the energy coming out of the ammunition the B.’s gave to the chonic CPS-haters in Norway.
One thing is clear – Topsy is the one that is closest to assume to reality what went on especially with the CPS in Naustdal. She wrote it to me in a comment in Norwegian. I think we are around the post from 25th of May where Mr. Prunean took a comment I made – a comment that I don’t know yet will give me problems or not, but with the settled agreement I think I’m saved from early retirement – and made it a headliner that the Norwegians activists posted further and that also was read by someone in the media.
I can’t find that comment now, but she noticed that the Council Man in Naustdal changed attitude from one day to another when Nrk worked with the question if Nautdal as a CPS service would come better out if they cooperated with some other municipals. Within 24 hours the Council Man changed attitude from a clear “No” to “Yee…es, this was interesting” when the municipalities Førde and Gaular invited.
In the hearing … if there has been a hearing .. the case must have changed during the days .. the CPS in Naustdal had begun to understand that they had taken the case to a level not any or very few municipalities would have taken it and they ended up with an agreement of some unknown help measures – I have told you months ago what I thought they would be – and both Naustdal and the family – and especially the children needs a peace that I hope the activists will respect. What the family to for the future is not of our business.
Here is what Topsy wrote the 27th of May in Norwegian:
Knut ,jeg tror du har mye rett angående rådmannen i Naustdal kommune og ett barnevern der nå uten den samme erfaring som hvor du arbeider. Slik jeg tolker media nå, vil rådmannen plutselig ha interkommunalt barnevernsamarbeid raskest mulig-før sommerferien! Og det uten at nabokommuner visste om det.
Fra å skryte om kompetansen og den faglige dyktigheten etc til at de nå har “støttehjul” via Fylkesmannen,tripplet bemanning på under 1 år og raser ned på kommunebarometeret,så vil han-den siste uken- bli kvitt “problemet”; ganske raskt! Så jeg er enig med deg i at det skurrer ang.rådmannen,men siden jeg ikke vet,så forsøker jeg være forsiktig.Noe sier meg han vet de har “gått i baret”og at han må rydde opp nå og at denne saken gikk helt av skaftet like etter den begynte. Så jeg heller mot ordet “prestisje” eller “vil ha anseelse” el.lign. Og viser det seg at hele saken var basert på inkompetanse og mangel på erfaring (noe jeg tror), så trenger vi virkelig det du formidler;en felles plattform for akuttvedtak over hele landet. Horne har en jobb å gjøre der. Om barnevernet i Naustdal kommune har gjort en gigabrøler, så er det en skam for Norge! Jeg påstår likevel at barnevernet i Norge er ett av de beste på denne kloden,selv om det er forsatt er under utvikling. Dere gjør en flott jobb,selv om enkeltsaker ødelegger for dere.
Jeg jobber absolutt ikke innen barnevernet,(er pensjonist) hadde ikke hatt nerver til det,men synes dere gjør en formidabel flott jobb og heier på dere. Håper du fortsatt har jobben din-og at du fortsatt vil tale barnevernets sak. Som nesten den eneste…..Berømmer deg det.
Right, that is your own assumption, that he the Naustdal chief has changed his mind. Why dont you trust the family saying even one week before the hearing, that BV intends to place all 5 children in permanent foster care. Again these pages are run by the family. So believe what you want, I believe what I want. And I dont believe for a moment that BV had any good intentions in this case. They did it because they had to.
From January:
The extended family of Marius and Ruth Bodnariu, in cooperation with Romanians from abroad and with citizens and organizations from Norway, Czech Republic, Russia, Latvia, Slovakia, India, and Poland, is organizing and supporting several protests worldwide against abuses made by the Barnevernet (child protection services in Norway).
The abuses made against Marius and Ruth Bodnariu’s family, have motivated the organization, and joining of, several protests in the month of December 2015. Such protests took place in Bucharest (Romania), Madrid (Spain), Chisinau (Moldova) and Oslo (Norway). Meanwhile, the efforts of the Marius and Ruth Bodnariu’s imediate family have been joined by an increasing number of Romanians from abroad, foreign citizens and international organizations, and by families who were the subject of abuses made by the same institution – Barnevernet; as such, together we decided to organize a series of global protests.
I am sorry Knut, but do you know every single of us, do you know where we live, with whom we are in contact with? You think that we know things only from the official sources, but you are not sure. Yes, Naustdall needs peace, I get that. What Naustdall needs is to have their own personnel checked., their procedures have to be checked and what their procedures were in this case. Are you serious, that you want to hide all the abuses done by them? So everything is fine, because the children are now back after almost 7 months? Get real Knut. That is why these abuses can continue, because people dont speak about it. I respect the Bodnariu, but you have absolutely no clue what they want, so stop speaking in their name.
You should read their official pages, I think you know that these protests were started because of the initiative of the extended family and network , right?
Knut is fishing. He’s claiming that no one has “inside” information. And he do this not only once, but over and over again, hoping that someone will admit that they have seen the papers. He wants proof that Marius or/and Ruth have given inside information to the protest group so they (barnevernet) can blame them for that.
The deal was struck before the verdict came out, but often, the County Welfare Board can, if they are early top agree, give verbal information to the parties how they will decide, thus making it clear for the Naustdal lawyer that they will lose.
Then, in order to secure that they can somehow save their reputation, they struck a deal with rather strict rules, which again I don’t blame Bodnariu to agree on. The most important thing for them was to get the kids back asap.
Fishing is a good and functionate hobby in my surroundings, but… I don’t have any intentions of blaming the parents – of cause – in a situation like this a Brother share his situation With his brohter, but I think the Brother has less or none lawyer filter as Marius had – in Norway – but not in the rest of the world. I hope you soon can make a deal With Mrs. M to take over the information and commenting – Your comments are readable and not insulting – I think you understand that if you want to have impact you must behave and use wisdom – not act as an activist With no intentions to really speak With the “enemy”. I find that you live in 2016 – the Language professor don’t.
It is a “comment out of the blue” with what purpose? If you are correct, Raymond, it shows just how little Knut understands about the love these parents have for their children. Would they possibly mess up what is apparently a pretty strict agreement by confiding in one of us?
It is a sad case if Knut thinks so. His childhood is before us. He has no desire to see his own siblings. Knut does not know what love is because he never experienced it himself. This explains his devotion to a heartless organization. He has a heart himself, but it was never given the love it needed. The question is: “Does this give Knut the excuse to act as he does?” The answer is: “Of course not.” We were created in the image of God and no one can completely drum out of us the potential for love. If we don’t get it, we crave it in some way. An simple example of this would be one of my students acting out in class to get attention (love) because they don’t get any attention (love) at home.
How does a teacher give this student the attention he/she needs? It happens over time. One must not tolerate disobedient behavior any more than God tolerates sin. If the teacher allows bad behavior, the student will just feel the same feeling they get at home (no love). A teacher can sometimes figure out what is happening in the home by the behavior of the child. As I refuse to raise my voice with students (in 95% of cases), it takes me longer to become effective with those students who are hollered at consistently in the home or in the classroom. These students usually respond best to hollering as that is what they are used to. As I use quieter methods, It takes them a bit longer to understand that I actually care for them and I am not disciplining them only because they are bad. I do not attempt to “condition” my students like some teachers because it is only effective in the short run and not the best thing. I am looking for long term win-win results, where everyone benefits; the disobedient student knows that someone cares and thus behaves better, the kids in the class who live in loving homes learn more, and I as the one responsible for the learning of the students am able to do my job.
One way to care for a child is to expect respect. This communicates respect back but only if that respect is genuine. Humans have a way of figuring this out in most cases. There are always exceptions to the rule: there may be real abuse in the home that is well hidden, there could be a long burden carried that no one is aware of, there could be a mental problem. These are only a few possibilities for those who are in the “exception” class that is usually the minority. I must add this because it is Biblical: continual disobedience in spite of what the heart says will eventually lead to a searing of the conscience. People with no conscience can do very bad things.
Students, as 99% of people, feel safer in an environment where consistency is the norm when love is shown. This is why I enjoy the challenge of my job. There are times when I walk into a classroom where I have never been before because it is a school where I rarely teach. I only have two rules and the students hear them early and often. I am then pretty concerned about them following those simple two rules. I am walking a tightrope because I need to find out what they are used to and I usually find out pretty fast. The hardest ones to deal with are the ones who have the teachers who care the least. Stack on top of that students in the same classroom who are shown little love or no love at home. They are not used to being shown love in that class, and they are controlled by various unwise means, the most unwise being the use of fear as the sole motivator. If they don’t know you, they don’t know that you will not treat them harshly, it usually takes several times in a “bad” class to earn the trust of the majority of the students.
The next time I am in that class, maybe a month later, it is strange that over half can remember my two rules. That’s not too bad, really.
How can one give genuine love when one has never had it in their lives? There is only one way if one has never been shown kindness and love in their own home setting. They have to be shown real love by someone. Real love means forgiveness combined with discipline. The Bible says: “God disciplines those he loves.” I have experienced God’s discipline and it is not a fun thing. I believe God continually tries to discipline all but some will not listen. I ask God to help me to forgive students who have treated me poorly so that the next time I see them I can genuinely say: “Hi, how are you?” In cases where I am not answered, I make them answer me as I am only due some kind of response back for my kindness.
So much for my short classroom management course. It gets even more enjoyable but you have given of your valuable time to read this far.
There is a purpose for my short course. A child taken from its loving parents, put into an environment that is not near as loving, not consistent, and not forgiving is going to have some sort of problems depending on the length and severity of the environment and on what the child is used to. How can a loving child have any foundation when it is taken from its mother at birth and placed with who knows what? How will a child respond when it has been living in a loving home for 7 or 8 years and is then suddenly removed from that loving situation only to see the biological parents 4 times a year? It depends on the child, but the results are not going to be good at all unless there is some love shown in the new environment.
This is why I and many like me are so concerned about the situation in Norway. Like the ruthless teacher who shows no mercy and only uses methods of punishment with no love and constant threatening, the results are a child that is afraid of what the teacher thinks not out of respect but out of fear of being punished because that’s all they know. The CPS in Norway is this “teacher of fear” that manipulates the society.
So why do Marius and Ruth follow the rules, that i would like to know, which have been set before them?
The highest reason is that they love their children and do not want to lose them to a cruel system again. It would not surprise me, if this system is not changed and if the family is forced to stay in Norway (a democracy?) until all of the children are 18, that Marius and Ruth will be very careful to abide by any conditions placed upon them. There is one exception that only the godly would understand.
I am thinking this more and more as it came to mind in a conversation on FB earlier today. Norway’s “system” is like fishing string that has a bunch of knots in it. The best thing to do with it is to discard it and get new string. This is what needs to happen in Norway. Do the people of Norway respect the system? Of course they don’t because it is ruthless. Because it is ruthless it is feared and must be discarded.
I have oversimplified a very difficult topic and the teacher/psychologist/activist will now get off of the soapbox.
If I were Marius and Ruth, I would consider moving to another country. That accounts for all children/families that have been in the system. Because, their children are now in the system, it will be used against them if any report of concern is given to barnevernet at a later day. They are not safe. Why take the chance if they have the opportunity, which I believe they have.
Unfortunately, many families have restricted opportunities to move because they are on welfare.
I agree with you 100%, Ray
I don’t think anyone really knows what the deal was, Raymond, the deal between the Bodnariu and CPS lawyers.
I heard, but I don’t know if it is true, that part of the deal is that they cannot leave Norway.
I cannot confirm this. It would explain why they were not on a plane yesterday.
I don’t think the family was on welfare.
I think they are free to go where they want. The deal is about help measures and I think – nothing else. The father is a citizen of Romania f.i.. The children shall complete this schoolyear on the schools they have attended since the emergency. This means here in Bergen that the last day is the coming Friday. The hardest part – I think – will be for the children to return to school in Naustdal in the autumn.
Knut is correct. The children must finish their school year (end of this week) at their “foster” schools. After which they go home permanently.
“I think” isn’t good enough, Knut.
You are the one who asks for links that show truth. If you know what the deal was, please inform me. Otherwise, you shouldn’t be making statements like this.
You say there are free to go and then you seem to say that the children must finish out a school year.
“The hardest part – I think – will be for the children to return to school in Naustdal in the autumn.”
I know at times you don’t understand me. In this case, Knut, I don’t understand you.
“I think they are free to go where they want.”
This is the statement Knut made that I zoomed in on.
Do you know, Delight, or do you know, Knut, if they are allowed to leave the country after “The children must finish their school year?”
Those details have not been made public, as far as I know. Only speculation.
As the most reliable of the two of you is Delight by the distance of one galaxy to another, Thank you, Delight.
People are free to leave the country and move as they want among the municipalities.. An agreement done to receive help measures is no reason to held back a family. The only time I have been involved with a travel abroad situation was with a parent with a drug habit,
Chris (quoting Mr Nygaard):
” “The hardest part – I think – will be for the children to return to school in Naustdal in the autumn.”
I know at times you don’t understand me. In this case, Knut, I don’t understand you.”
That statement of Mr Nygaard’s, Chris, stems from the belief of Barnevernet’s people that in all cases in which they intervene, the family (usually the parents) has done something shameful and/or shown themselves to be incapable of socially acceptable behaviour. That is the way they motivate their insistence on silence: They hold that it will be so painful for the children that the parents “expose” them and themselves in such a way. (Barnevernet of course never admits that exposure is so often exposure of the shameful way THEY have been treating the family.)
It is the same here: Mr Nygaard “fears” that the children will be bullied at school, be looked down on bacause they have been in care and because the parents “are so bad that Barnevernet has to take charge and direct and instruct them”.
Thank you, Marianne.
It is good that you took my words literally as they were meant with a bit of sarcasm.
You may have understood that but still “saw” that I didn’t “see” things at all from this angle. You were correct as usual.
This is so sad. Knut cares for the Bodnariu children but he has no concern for a system with such a philosophy. “This is a rare occurrence” or “This happened in one small municipality” or similar statements are mentioned over and over. It doesn’t matter that 4 to 5 families a day are treated in pretty much the same way. Oh, the families may not be as “good” as the Bodnarius (if they are so good then why take their children at all, but for months?). It may be a single mother struggling to raise her children. Or it may be an immigrant who doesn’t understand Norway’s “violence” policy. Does that make them unfit parents who should have their babies ripped from their loving arms?
The philosophies that lead to the policies in Norway’s CPS are absurd and inhumane.
All one has to do is look at the most recent post on this blog. It describes yet another child taken from its mother. This time they waited until the mother was not there. They did the same with the Bodnariu girls at school. This is not done to save the mother from trauma, of course. The mother will be very traumatized when she learns what has been done and will continue to be so for as long as the child is away and even after that. This is done because it makes it easier for them.
It is an “upside-down” fear that Knut has.
You have trouble both With Reading and Language, Ms. M? You are in the minds of the CPS as a cloned Whole and inside my brain too?
We who can read understand that for you it’s hard to understand that an agreement is done at all With the CPS. Agreements is the way we the work – we work out an investigation scheme together; who to get information from; when to visit; when and where talking to the children; oberservation if considered necessary – the Meetings dated a.s.o. If given help measures we work out a plan for the measure – the goals and the way in that direction – the evaluations. If a child is in care a plan for the care will be worked out according to the the paragraph used and who the legal part are.
This B Family has a supporter center in Chicago and if Chris and others lack information they can ask them. They sure knows what the agreement is about and what plans this Family has for the near future. I – as you – only read what I find and there was more details in the American leaks than in the press in Norway.
A CPS usually have no problem With altering the course of a case. If I had been the B’s I would have said to Naustdal CPS I’m through With you – the help measures we agreed to shall come from Our neighbour municipalities – so the handling – you only take the bill.
We in Norway think that the child – most of them for reasons coming not from themselves have a future and that all People in an municipality don’t need to know that this year …….. has been given help from the CPS. Yeah, some shame might be a part of it and I think many families chose not to talk With everyone about the involvement. I think this is the same all over the Western world – we are all supposed to be Lucky facebook families telling gulli stories and sharing photos that keep up the impression of the happy hour going on for ever.
The daughters shall by address enter the same School where the last months have been altered. They thought them different in the Autumn 2015 – what they think now I’m not sure of. They have the last months experienced something else than the difference they expressed seven months ago. What will they reunite too? What do the parents understand that they should change? What are they willing to change?
In Norway – and here in Bergen – we have Christian private Schools. Here children more freely can Express their from home always carrying belief. This might be an alternative. We – as a Family – moved to Bergen just for that reason.
It’s most up to the people close to the members of this Family to help them to feel welcome and relaxed.
“You have trouble both With Reading and Language, Ms. M?”
I have found Marianne to be as fluent as I with the English language, Knut, and sometimes even better. I’m guessing it is her second language and is the only one I can speak with any fluency. She is a professor of linguistics after all.
She has done much better in this area than you by a long shot, “speaking” of the usage of the English language. I have never criticized you in this area that I’m aware, as I have known your intentions for the most part. It is hard, though. Your consistent double negatives make you look ignorant in the English language but they may actually be quite clever. When using double negatives the meaning can usually go two ways. With double negatives, the person is actually “saying” the opposite of the “intent.”
“we work out an investigation scheme”
That’s how I view it as the most popular use of the word “scheme” is:
“a clever and often dishonest plan to do or get something”
You will see this here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scheme
and here
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/scheme
where it states:
“an organized plan for doing something, especially something dishonest or illegal that will bring a good result for you”
It is not how you intended to use the word, Knut? It is how we who continue to learn more and more about your employer’s system see it.
Language is important, Knut, and I know I make mistakes quite often, mostly in syntax. Spell check is nice because I’m not great in that area either. Also, I get lazy sometimes and fail to proof.
Because of my mistakes, I don’t criticize yours, although yours far outnumber mine unless the mistakes are made on purpose.
I won’t comment any more on this statement except for your last:
“It’s most up to the people close to the members of this Family to help them to feel welcome and relaxed.”
I agree with this statement. Yet, none of this trauma this would have happened had the CPS workers in the small municipality had any common sense in the first place.
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Reblogged this on Truthification Chronicles and commented:
So great to hear! Praise the Lord for answering our prayers!
Wonderful news! Now we need to see the same thing happen in Sweden, in particular on Gotland. Domenic Johansson and his parents and many others also need to be delivered from the same evil…
I agree very much about Sweden. Sweden has mostly been left out of the arguments we have seen recently. Maybe the extreme number of immigrants / asylum seekers which have flooded Sweden lately has drowned the visibility of the country’s social services and the way they have always “led” the attacks by CPS in the Nordic area.
I have also heard of the situation in Sweden, Tim. I am informed that not only do you have similar problems in the area of child welfare but that the people are very passive. This has led to totalitarianism in much of the way your government runs. As a Swede, how would you respond to my assessment that is based on someone who moved into your country from another country. I have read up on this a bit and what I’ve read agrees with an eyewitness.
Publicity is the Bodnario family`s security, in a situation that feels insecure. To have to rely on a CPS that they have experienced as unreliable, must be very stressful indeed. The fact that they still have to deal with the very same CPS that traumatized them, also expresses some of the power imbalance in these cases. Naustdal municipality now have to demonstrate that their “help” in the family is still needed for some time. Possibly they will be eager to pull out after they have made their point. Anyhow, one option for the family is to leave the country, or relocate within Norway to get some relief. Another option is to stay where they are, trust that the world will be watching them closely, and hope that the municipality so much disliked the publicity that they won`t consider to interfere with the family again.
No doubt the Bodnariu parents are free to leave Norway. The question is what the CPS will do if they attempt to take the children with them. There is quite a trend lately, both in arguments, practice and legislation, that holds that taking children out of Norway is in itself a proof of “insufficient ability to care”. This is not applied to families who have not been in Barnevernet’s eye previously and who just go away for a holiday. But it is now for instance illegal to fetch children back from “emergency taking-into-care”. It is also illegal now to take the children out of the country when the municipality has sent a case to the County Committee, even if the child is still at home.
Norway’s fear of parents being able to take children out of the country is even behind many such emergency takings, and the holding of children at secret addresses where the parents cannot find them. Cf
“Lithuania / Norway: Girl taken out from foster care by mother”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7767
“Lithuanian boy? – unclear news reports”
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7771
Parliamentary transactions (sorry they are in Norwegian):
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35293#p35293
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=35715#p35715
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36370#p36370
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=36207#p36207
“Norway’s fear of parents being able to take children out of the country is even behind many such emergency takings, and the holding of children at secret addresses where the parents cannot find them.”
Hard to find words, except for suspected abuse of authority.
The Christian newspaper Norge IDAG had a good summary of the Bodnariu case, and also looked ahead. They did not mince their words:
“Full seier for Naustdal-familien” (Full victory for the Naustdal family)
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37567#p37567
I might perhaps add my translation of a couple of paragraphs from the Norge IDAG article – this is about the future:
First, a compensation claim against Naustdal Municipality should be considered. Economic compensation could give the family the possibility to take leave from work, travel, or do something else which may help them in the time to come. A judgment supporting a compensation claim would also discourage other municipalities tempted to choose the same approach. No families should experience that a thinly supported acute takeover of care leads to six months long war of delaying tactics, a war with a child protection service without human considerations.
The other is that the story should be published as a book. There is still much about this case which has not reached the general public. Some of it should still be kept protected, but some belongs in the public dialogue about child protection. Some have also argued publicly about this case on an unsound basis. They have contributed to the twisting the story to the disadvantage of the family. It is a story which must be put right.
Randevouz on Rema 1000 Skjold? Just arrived at home – finished the daily shopping. On the last stop – Rema 1000 – I was in the middle of a conversation with a senior advisor Bufetat when Vegsund – the Bergen lawyer that the municipal Naustdal use – showed up. If Ms. M had lived on her old andress and the leader of the network Dagbladet linked to Nadia and Casparian – N.S. also had showed up – it could have been an interesting rendevouz in the local grocery.
Da må du på do – skal du også fortelle ?
“First, a compensation claim against Naustdal Municipality should be considered. Economic compensation could give the family the possibility to take leave from work, travel, or do something else which may help them in the time to come. A judgment supporting a compensation claim would also discourage other municipalities tempted to choose the same approach. No families should experience that a thinly supported acute takeover of care leads to six months long war of delaying tactics, a war with a child protection service without human considerations.”
All it would take is a good lawyer, Marianne. There is a problem and I think it is way Knut gloats: We don’t know, and maybe never will know until the Bodnariu children are all 18, about the deal made between the Bodnariu and CPS lawyers. Maybe the Bodnarius gave up rights to any compensation.
“The other is that the story should be published as a book. There is still much about this case which has not reached the general public. Some of it should still be kept protected, but some belongs in the public dialogue about child protection. Some have also argued publicly about this case on an unsound basis. They have contributed to the twisting the story to the disadvantage of the family. It is a story which must be put right.”
I agree, Marianne. It should be done as soon as possible by a good author. No author is bound by any decision made between lawyers in a case like this. It is a story that needs to be told in any format, book, video, movie, etc.
So, you should be heading home from “work” now, Knut. It is the “work” of defending an evil system. So, just as you get home, so do regular Norwegians from a day at work. They look at the news maybe and read an account of the CPS in Dagbladet. It is confusing like the one on the front page of Dagbladet like the edition that had Nadia’s story in it. Even the journalist’s words have been twisted. No one who really knows the story is happy with the way it has been printed.
But the majority haven’t had their children stolen, yet, so it is not something that they choose to think about in the few short hours they have before bed and back to work again. At the moment, you seem to have pretty good job security, Knut, in spite of your crazy responses like the one above.
Chris: “There is a problem and I think it is [the] way Knut gloats”
Gloating about such people as Margaret Hennum and myself is one thing: – haha, you won’t get anywhere. – But Margaret and I have not had our children and our whole families destroyed by vicious Barnevern action, so we just have to take it, don’t we.
However, another and worse thing is the way Mr Nygaard seems to feel that such cases are an amusing game: – who wins, who loses, exciting … we win lots of cases, we lose some, Norway is so good and has a lot going for it, you shouldn’t bother ’cause we are in the lead in the world …. – It is very offensive, really, quite off-putting. It is not exciting to the affected children and parents, and the outcome is not of indifference to them.
Du skal få slippe de historiene, Gabriela – de er ganske like – slik som barnevernet er rundt omkring her i Skandinavia, men siden du er på “privaten” – i barndommen sparket jeg mye fotball med en familie med samme etternavn som deg – en av de het Steinar.
I guess Knut is trying to prove your point, Marianne.
So many children are deprived of a relationship with their biological parents and there is no reason good enough to put them in foster homes. It is quite tragic.
After your comment, Marianne, Knut appears to be writing to Gabriela.
He writes about football.
Chris: “He is writing about football.”
Well, Chris, he writes to Gabriela “personally” that as a boy he used to play football with a boy of the same surname as her. He does seem to have a tendency to intimate that he sort of “knows about us” – is that supposed to be a threat maybe? Big brother watches you?
After his performance here, Marianne, I wouldn’t put it past Knut.
Politycy norwescy zarzucaja polskiej prasie zbytnia otwartosc.Ale to jest blad .To prasa norweska jest zla bo jest cenzurowana.Redakcje gazet norweskich to wielkie centra dezinformacji publicznej.Do dzis wiekszosc Norwegow nic nie wie o protestach przeciwko barnevernet.Artykuly krytyczne o barnevernet i takie ktore opisuja jak dziala bv -sa ,ale w internecie.Gazety nadal ukrywaja prawde i kieruja uwage spoleczenstwa na inne tory.Wazne dla oficjalnej prasy sa smieszne pieski , kotki i sport.Mam wrazenie , ze w dalszym ciagu jest grupa osob ktora nawet jak sledzi co sie dzieje to boi sie zamieszczac swoje komentarze.Czyli boi sie represji ze strony bv.Liczba 250 osob na protestach w Oslo to moim zdaniem obraz bardzo zlej swiadomosci tego narodu co sie tu naprawde dzieje za fasada ,,barnas beste,,Te cierpiace dzieci w systemie moga podziekowac swoim przesladowcom – cenzorom prasy.Bo cenzurowanie informacji o bv to wspoludzial w zbrodniach bv.
“There is a problem and I think it is [the] way Knut gloats”
So right what you say here, Marianne. This kind of conduct is not what one should expect from a grown up person working in such a responsible sector as Knut. It is like if I were a doctor and would make fun of all the patients I were not able to cure and brag about the large number of cases where I succeeded in bringing patients back to good health.
I am afraid, and I have the impression, that for many (I don`t talk about all of them) who are working in Barnevernet, it is about them and their prestige and not about serving and helping others.
Odpowiedzialnosc – ansvar -to nie jest wlasciwy termin na okreslenie tego co robia pracownicy bv.Przeczytaj sobie Karakterdrap og Justismord i barnevernet saker.Profesor Arild Linneberg ktory ogladal dokumentacje dostarczana na procesy barnevernet do sadu stwierdzil ze pelna byla bledow.Byly w dokumentach zle dane personalne ( zle imie , zle nazwisko ) ,inna data urodzenia , bledny wiek dzieci , inna nazwa przedszkola .A czasem podpieto w dokumentach kartki dotyczace innej sprawy .Sedzia powinnien oddalic sprawe do czasu poprawienia bledow w dokumentach .Profesor byl zdziwiony , poniewaz nic takiego sie nie dzialo.Sedzia wyrokowal na podstawie takich dokumentow z bledami i czasem dotyczacych innej sprawy ( bo sie komunalnemu pracownikowi barnevernet przy kopiowaniu kartki pomylily i dolaczyl je do innej sprawy ) .A jeszcze dodaj do tego obcokrajowca ktory slabo zna jezyk lub nie zna go wcale.A konsekwencje sa powazne .Zniszczona rodzina,zabrane dzieci .Do tego dochodzi jeszcze oszczercze opisanie rodzicow – nienormalny , psychopata itp itd.Karakterdrap .Mozna zupelnie niewinnego czlowieka opisac jako seryjnego morderce.Pracownicy barnevernet sa do tego dobrze przygotowani.Ich nikt nie sprawdza .Czy sa psychopatami czy nie.I jaki ma IQ.A do tego wiedza , ze sa calkowicie bezkarni .Bo w przepisach regulujacych ich prace nikt nie uwzglednil kar za niszczenie rodzin wlasna glupota , zlosliwoscia czasem rasizmem.Im wiecej czytam , im wiecej wiem o tym systemie tym jestem bardziej przerazona.
Til Knut …bare død fisk går med strømen.
Tylko zdechle ryby plyna z pradem.
Marianna dzieki za troske.Ale o mnie nie musicie sie bac.Wielki Brat obserwuje mnie juz od dawna i zna moje poglady.I raczej mnie chroni.
Do obserwacji sie przyzwyczailam.Dla normalnych ludzi to jest wlasciwie ochrona.
A co do Knuta….
Zauwazylam , ze na kazdej internetowej debacie o barnevernet jest jeden klakier.Klakier to zawod wykonywany za pieniadze.Klakier to osoba ktora klaszcze po spektaklu za pieniadze. Taki klakier na kazdej debacie chwali system.Po jednej osobie na debate.Ciekawe czy na to ida pieniadze z podatkow.
W systemie jest sporo pieniedzy . Grupa Walenbeg ma obroty 2,2 miliarda w Norwegii. .Zysk 550 milionow.Nic wiec dziwnego ,ze probuja zastraszac krytykow.To taki dobry biznes robiony na peknietych odbytach dzieci wykorzystywanych seksualnie przez system.
Takie inwestycje wywoluja moje obrzydzenie.
W polsce takiego czlowieka jak Knut nazwano by – brazowy nos.Lizusostwo.Jak sie pcha nos w dupe szefa to potem masz brazowy.
Oceniam zle Norwegow przez pryzmat moich doswiadzczen zdobytych tutaj .Ale wiem , ze nie wszyscy sa zli.Chce napisac teraz o pozytywnych reakcjach.Zima , jak mam problemy z jazda samochodem to zawsze uzyskalam pomoc od przypadkowych przechodniow i kierowcow.Bo czasem musze gdzies dojechac pod stroma , oblodzona gore.To taka jazde pod gore po prawie pinowym lodowisku.Zimowa specjalnosc Norwegii.
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