DESPERATE PARENT – He had his children investigated at school. For the sake of their safety he IMMEDIATELY took them back to Romania before Barnevernet could confiscate them.
When faced with the trouble they caused, a Municipal official spoke to nrk.no and said this was a “routine” interview by a nurse and that the Dugeniuc family had nothing to fear. Nevertheless, Andras Dugeniuc fled Norway to ensure his children will not be targeted. This video is available on the nrk.no site below, a Norwegian newspaper.
Translation of Andras Dugeniuc:
“[I did this] because of the interrogation that one of the younger children (age 9) was put through at school. After the interrogation, the kids panicked and knowing about the Bodnariu case from the internet they asked me: what will happen to us? The same as with the Bodnariu family? So, they panicked and said, dad, we will not go to school unless you come with us. I told them it is impossible to come with you because I have to go to work. That is when I decided I must take my wife and kids back to the old country.”
[ video source: http://www.nrk.no/…/reiser-fra-norge-i-frykt-for-barneverne… ]
Delight in Truth 
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Reblogged this on Blog de albina.
As I mentioned before, I have some friends in my neighborhood who lived over 6 years in Norway. One of their children was born in Norway. They left Norway in 2013. The reason for they left Norway was because the nurse started to ask the children all kind of questions about the parents and told the children not to tell parents about what they are talking with her. They saw children confiscated from Norwegian family in their neighborhood based on the report from nurse. Medical staff in Norway give reports to Barnevernet on daily basis. Therefore, it is irrelevant to say that Dugeniuc family had to deal with nurse not with Barnevernet.
Yes, Octavian is right about this.
Octavian: “… the nurse ….. told the children not to tell parents about what they are talking with her”
This alone should be enough to tell everybody with some sense something. I am reminded of what people who grew up with sensible, honourable parents under communist tyranny have told us: that their parents had to instruct them about what they could say and what they could not say at school, that there were even a lot of things the parents could never discuss in the children’s hearing, because it was dangerous for the children to know if the authorities ever cast their eyes on the family.
When I was a child, it was considered by ethically conscious Norwegians that questioning children about their parents and their home was disrespectful and proved you were very inconsiderate – it was a way of suggesting to the child that his/her home was not good enough and the parents were not to be honoured by you in the eyes of the child, in other words very offensive, hurtful and dishonourable behaviour towards the child. A person who satisfied their curiosity in this way was himself despicable.
It is indeed a sorry thing to see that the alleged concern over “the child’s best interest” has turned this principle about decency aside completely. When you add to this that a lot of questions asked by the army of public employees “in order to protect the child” show incredible curiosity and a kind of revelling in matters which have nothing whatsoever to do with children’s safety, then you get an even clearer picture of the kind of philosophy honoured in Norway these days.
It is tyranny, as you note, within a “democracy,” Mariannne. We have some of that in my country with judges’ decisions.
At what point does a democracy become more of a tyranny than a democracy? This is a rhetorical question my friend.
I will ask this, however, Marianne. Who is the most powerful person in your country on whom responsibility can be placed for the cruel actions taken by the Norwegian CPS?
Chris:
“At what point does a democracy become more of a tyranny than a democracy? This is a rhetorical question my friend.”
Not altogether, is it, Chris? Let us try to work towards an answer, although there will never be consensus:
It is no lot a democracy if the other component of a democracy is not there, the one not mentioned in the name: rule of law, which must imply not only rights for the majority, but equal rights for minorities. Perhaps it goes in a direction reminiscent of Kant (don’t challenge me, please, I am very much a non-expert): The ideals and laws must be such that it is possible for us to WISH for them to apply to everybody.
It is not a democracy if there is not a high degree of individual freedom. This freedom, to be worth much, is of a kind that must be defended continuously, it cannot be relied upon always to be there.
Chris:
“Who is the most powerful person in your country on whom responsibility can be placed for the cruel actions taken by the Norwegian CPS?”
I have thought about it a little and have no answer. Perhaps this is part of the problem: So many sectors and single people have become involved in the system’s creation and continued functioning, that responsibility has been spread widely and is almost not visible, certainly not in the shape of any single person. But some sectors are more responsible than others: Psychologists, the politicians who have not questioned it, the jurists and lawyers and judges, the mainstream media.
“Not altogether, is it, Chris? Let us try to work towards an answer, although there will never be consensus:”
I agree with you here, Marianne.
I should have stated: “I am making this as a rhetorical question my friend” because I am aware of the minutia involved in such a discussion.”
However, I am very satisfied with your statement:
“It is not a democracy if there is not a high degree of individual freedom. This freedom, to be worth much, is of a kind that must be defended continuously, it cannot be relied upon always to be there.”
Using this as our definition of democracy, do you think that Norway is one? I think I already know your answer but I need to ask.
Thank you for trying to answer my other question. I didn’t think there was a simple answer but if there is someone is keeping a tight lid on it.
I can see why you were a linguistics professor. You are particularly skilled with the English language. You seem like you know it better than I.
All laws can’t apply to everybody all the way, but the product as a whole should be possible. We, Christians, have not laws that suit us and our belief all the way. More and more of the Christian values are taken away, but Norway as a nation is still a free and democratic Norway.
Horne is the head of the department ruling the CPS in Norway.
Knut has set up your answer for me nicely here, Marianne.
Chris:
“Knut has set up your answer for me nicely here, Marianne.”
I am not so sure. The ETHICS of Kantian fashion, at least, is not about laws applying to everybody or not, it is rather about whether they are of such a fashion that it is POSSIBLE to WANT them to apply universally.
This is not the response I expected, Marianne. It is better. It makes me think…
No reason to be desperate… even if the house to leave is like in a dream… Norway can be a nightmare! Too bad, too bad for everyone.
Norway is turning slowly into a Nazi state. Generation after generation is educated into a NAZI ideology, using NAZI methods. Read this and replace German with Norwegian and you will clearly see for yourself the similarities: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
Great link, viatainroz.
With a few exceptions, the entire world is heading in this direction. The Nordic countries are only “ahead” of most other “democracies.”
North Korea would be one of the countries “ahead” of the Nordic countries.
Reblogged this on Wings of the Wind and commented:
Here is another excellent post on Delight in Truth’s blog. I think I would do the same thing this man has if I lived in Norway and had school aged children. I would leave any of the Nordic countries.
Veronica Valachova has examined this days post for the propaganda machine for something unknown – else.
“If you read the story, you would know that the child wasn´t investigated by Barnevernet. They were afraid of a nurse who had examined all children in the classroom (all second grades) and it was a kind of routine which has nothing to do with Barnevernet (When I was child we used to be taken for dentist examination by our school- our school dentist had his office near our school building- something similiar to this medical examination in a Norwegian school).
“Barnevernet har inga sak mot rumenske Andras Dugeniuc. Likevel flyttar han og familien tilbake til Romania på grunn av frykt etter barnevernssaka i Naustdal.”
So it is not true that the family had a contact with BV employee. No, not at all. They panicked because of a child nurse examination at school, but BV had nothing against this family.
And the information to NRk weren´t given by the BV, but by municipal officer who is in duty of health issues and who confirmed that BV investigation hadn´t been done in this case (just a visit of child nurse):
“«Avhøyret» som utløyste frykta for familien Dugeniuc var ein rutinesamtale med helsesystera opplyser kommunen.
– Dei hadde ingen grunn til å frykta barnevernet. Dette er ein rutinesamtale som alle andreklassingar blir kalla inn til. Det har ikkje kome inn uromeldingar på familien, seier kommunalsjef for helse og omsorg Øistein Gunnarshaug i Vindafjord kommune.”
Nothing happened in this case. Bv didn´t have any interest in this family after the nurse had examined ALL children at second grade. So it was irrational fear. We experienced medicial examination at school (in my country- Czech republic) when I was child (in the 1990s)… and what? In my opinion this story is an example of irrational behavior.
It seem to me quite irrational to escape from a country because of medical examination of a child by nurse. What´s wrong with that? Should we be afraid of nurses and doctors and not to take our chilren to hospitals for examination? Have these parents ever communicated with class teacher and school staff to reveal that the nurse examined all children of that age and that it has nothing to do with some worries about parents education? No, I wouldn´t panic because the nurse had seen my child at school and she asked him/her some questions.”
I corrected the “investigated by Barnevernet.” But it sure sounds like the child was singled out at school in some manner. Maybe there were leading questions like: how often does your father pull your ear if you do something wrong?
I doubt a family would just leave the country if all the children in the class were subject to the same “health inspection.”
You must understand that this movement stear up a lot of unnecessary fear in people who have little knowledge of Norway.
Veronica has done the examination thourough: ” And what do we know in reality about this kind of examination? Just that all children of this age went through it and they are used to it in Norway. Are we sure that the parents didn´t get a notice about it? Is not it possible that this family don´t speak Norwegian so much and they didn´t understand the information from the school? They weren´t familiar with the institution of the so called school nurse and with the programme of nurse for dfferent grades, it seems to me. You may read more i. e. here: http://hamna.tromsoskolen.no/index.php?pageID=97… (including timeline of different examinations).
The rules in different countries are not the same- we were checked by a dentist in my childhood (1990s) without the need of parents consent given in advance. It´s true that it was “our dentist” in most cases, because we used to attend a school in our neighbourhood and we had all doctors there as well (we experienced even TBC test at school, then the parents were informed, but they did not need to sign up for it, the doctor in charge wasn´t mine, because my mother took care of me as a pediatrician normally).
And there is more about school nurses work in Vindafjord municipality when the Romanian family lived: https://www.vindafjord.kommune.no/Handlers/fh.ashx…
You can find out the timetable and information about the examination of all children at second grade. 2.klasse:*Kikhoste/difteri/stivkrampe/polio vaksine
*Obs eneurese, samt syn/høyrsel ved lesevanskar. Orientering om fargesyn
til føresette.
*Høgde/vekt (school nurse offers to vaccinate your child against some disease- polio etc, she examines your child´s vision, color vision, hearing, height and weight).,
Have you ever been to Norway? I lived there and it is not communist country. You have a proof of it even on this page- the article about the fear of a parent who could speak freely to public broadcasting canal (equivalent to CT1 in the Czech republic). And you find many, many Norwegian articles which critize some aspects of Norwegian social systems etc. Yes, they don´t want to break the regime because the free elections are held in Norway every four years, they have the same political system as us.. and there is not any dictator at the helm.And the Norwegian flag? Uttrykksikonet smile There´s a Christian cross on this flag which has been used for many years. Could you imagine Christian symbols on commmunist´s countries flag?:-)
It’s about time this movement for strearing up enormous unnecessary fear in people took a serious evaluation of the harm they do.
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Reblogged this on ENCOURAGE by cornelilioi.
The plan B.
Every family should have a plan B if …
not because of this movement that stear up a lot of unnecessary fear in people who are proned (?) for it … but because …we do not know what will happen the next hour.
Norway has now ratified the Haag Convention of 1996 and from the 1th of July it will be possible for children involved in a CPS case in Norway to be placed with relatives abroad.
But there are some if’s in this plan B:
* the child must have some knowledge and attachment to the parent(s) homeland
* this plan B is only possible in cases done handled as a voluntary help measure – not in cases where the parents has lost their daily care in the County Board or the Court. This means that it is the parents that take the initiative – they have to consider a removal to relatives abroad better for the child than to live in a foster home found by the CPS in Norway.
* this “if” is very important: Before the CPS raise a case for the County Board the CPS shall examine if the child has a possible attachment to relatives abroad
* if one parent live abroad the CPS shall try to find this person and inform about the child’s situation
* the CPS shall consider if the child may get necessary help abroad as an alternative to the CPS taking the care
* the child must have an attachment to the homeland involved
* the child must have an attachment to the relatives involved
* the child’s own wish is important – Norway or …
* the child’s future possibilities for contact with siblings
* the child’s knowledge to the language and culture in the homeland
http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/04/28/nyheter/innenriks/barnevern/44032856/
Knut, this is very important. I should write an article about this. Most people do not realize that Norway will not apply this to care orders (like Bodnariu).
Before CPS raises a care order, what does it mean before emergency removal or within the first weeks after removal?
These questionings by a health nurse at school have everything to do with Barnevernet. And yes, they are routine. The nurse tries to get the children to tell them if they are dissatisfied with anything at home and so on. If the nurse thinks their dental status is not good enough, the reaction is not only to order the parents to take them to the dentist, but also to report it to Barnevernet, which lists this as an item of “deficient care”. A few more items and the CPS has the case in box. It was certainly used in the case of Domenic Johanson in Sweden, and kindly do not say that that is Sweden not Norway: their CPS people are cloned twins. They rushed into the plane before take-off to India and took Domenic; one argument was about holes in his teeth, another was that the parents had wanted home-schooling for him. So they weren’t able to take him with them to India (the mother is Indian).
“En ny India-sak: Domenic Johansson” (A new India case : …)
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=6979
Thank you Marianne. Thank for the truth. I said Barnevernet will tie up with vengeance on Poaching the children. And it is true. Worst than communism.
I think some in the movement begin to see that the language professor has her own activist brainwashed way to both observe and give further information that do not speak the truth about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS – neither does her way of activism help the Bodnariu family.
Dear Mr Knut.We appreciate very much Marianne and such people standing up for the truth in a Communist Norway.They have the courage to do so taking a big risk. We, in our tens of thousands are taking a stand along this few in Norway.
I’m saying that you have made a choice to be corrupt and take the corrupt way of acting. In case you did not know the internet in up and running all across the world and we all have been in school, so we can read and understand how things are in Norway. Sorry to say but you are the brain washed not Marianne.I remember when I was a child Ceausescu our dictator have manage to brainwash us in thinking that our tractors are the best in Europe. That was possible because we did not have access to any external news.Today brainwashing is easy in Norway because you choose to listen to the lies your government is feeding you with, maybe because they are paying you, or because of fear. If you don’t wake up soon, you will go down with the creation of evil Barnevernet .
She’s taking no big risk – it’s you who take the big risk – reading all her activist propaganda as the truth about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS – why don’t you find information yourself – google isn’t hard to do. The only thing you take in is her truth – it’s as you have found another Master. You are far out – on the Vidda .. as these Norwegians
Mr Knut!
“Barnevernet line of thought
“If your child wants to leave home and agrees with Barnevernet then the child knows what is good for him. But if he wants to meet with his parents or wants back home then the child no longer understand the greater good.”
So many people arround the world understand the ABUSES your cps are doing, (a politician spoke on april 16 in front of Austrian Parliament about the norway cps abuses) and you say all of time that is not true!!! What is wrong with you?
Or what is wrong with you – ending up with believing and speak “in .. her… tongues”? Nothing is wrong with me, but I have not taken in her “gospel” as the truth. She has read some cases and made up her mind about the CPS as a whole. She and her handful chronic activist friends have found a door opener with the Bodnariu case and the international market for her retoric and out of date considerations and her hostile view about all public services and health care in Norway. She hope the energy coming out of the Bodnariu case will end up in something else, but she does not have a clue what this “else” should be. If you ask Mr. Prunean he will agree that doctors differ – so do we in the CPS too – we are all humans and as long as not CPS workers are cloned you fine find differences and wrongs in the service as in any other service where humans are involved.
I see that you are working on Saturday once again, Knut.
Are they paying you overtime or are you so concerned for your job that you do this without pay?
“She and her handful chronic activist friends have found a door opener with the Bodnariu case and the international market for her retoric and out of date considerations and her hostile view about all public services and health care in Norway.”
I would say that the worldwide demonstration on April 16th means that there are more than a “handful” of chronic activist friends involved in this matter.
The chronics are the handful of Norwegians that have shared Mrs. M’s anti… for a decade or two. You are just a loyal diciple that has found a new Master and instead of preaching the truth in the real gospel according to Jesus Christ share Mrs. M’s personal gospel about Norway, Norwegians and the CPS.
My master is the God of the Bible, Knut.
I happen to agree with Marianne on this subject as do so many around the world.
Would you make a truthful statement at least once in a while?
Please read this, it is from Jahn Otto Johansen, one of the most respected journalists from Norway:
http://www.verdidebatt.no/debatt/cat19/subcat24/thread11639586/
Knut, my neighbors who lived in Norway over 6 years and told me the same thing specified in this article (way before this article was published) have nothing to do with M.S. Barnevernet is highly using nurses and teachers to get information about specific families. Therefore, my question is: how safe can a family with children can feel in Norway since if a nurse or a teacher does not like you, she may “call Barnevernet” and they are there anytime to start a case of abuse against you.
I would like to read some testimonies from Norway from parents who got help from Barnevernet. I would love to read real stories about parents that were taught by Norwegian CPS to become better parents and they got their children back and now they are thankful to Barnevernet. On the contrary I can point to many cases in which Barnevernet destroyed families and they did not help the parents in any way to improve their “parental skills” and get the children back. It’s more than obvious that the purpose of Barnevernet is not to return the children to their families.
Stop it!!! Why do you all want to portrait Norway like this? It is not the truth! I am lucky i am bourne and brought up in this country! I have been living abroad for many years and i have seen things done to children that made me really appreciate where i come from!! All you norwegians; shame on you!! The CPS in Norway are one of the best in the world and we all want our children to grow up to be best of what they want to be. You shock me; grown ups talking like this!!! I have been reading everything you have posted for months: if you are Christians;where is the love?And Trust? Cps in Norway are doing an outstanding job,taking care of the most vulnerable members of our state. Please Mariann,stop misguiding everyone!
Topsy, we do not know who you are, but I ask you to consider the damage and sufferring that the Norwegian CPS has done to the Bodnariu family. Their boys were found with bruises and major scrapes on their body WHILE in CPS custody. Children die while in CPS custody! The cases we have been discussing have a lack of due process! Hello?
If bruices and major scrapes occur in school and kindergarden – which happen to some every day – seldom or never a concern is given to the CPS. If the parents blame some persons for wrongs done in their working hours – then it’s a criminal case. There was ..ONE … case reported where a child died of most possibly an epileptic attack – that case as criminal is closed.
What is happening to the Bodnariu’s is happening from considerations done by the Naustdal CPS and their lawyer – not Norwegian CPS as a whole and you and I don’t know what’s going on in that case – either do information come out from the Bodnariu organization – why this silence and what is the work and considerations done by the parents lawyers in this case?
There are cases like this happening all over Norway, Knut.
You cannot only point to this jurisdiction.
You are in error again.
There are people talking about cases in Norway – there are media telling about the change in cases – yeah – in a nation of 5 million a lot is happening and as I have said before – we are all humans working with humans and the possibility of differences in thinking and considerations are present here in Norway as in the rest of the CPS’s in other Western nations.
Are you read also what happened with the Bodnariu family? Was a cps outstanding job? Why so many peoplein norway stand up against barnevernet? Tens of thousand of people on the street are wrong? Are you serious? No one abuse against children and their family? Realy?
In Norway there are a mix of a handful chronics – some that see a market and economic possibilities in the fear movement – some that have feeling of loss and are considered victims – ending up with some hundreds as a whole. If you go to ethnic Norwegians we are on a couple of hundreds. The language this movement use is hostile and out of order and common sense – it has no influence or impact on the common Norwegian – the media consider this as lunacy coming out of misguiding done by especially Mrs. M, Reikerås and Mr. Bennett.
Ever heard a broken record, Knut?
You sound exactly like one.
Topsy, I want to tell you my story, so you will have an understanding for my reasons. I am Romanian and my sister has married a Norwegian guy 15 years ago. She lives in Norway, not far from where the Bodnariu family lives, and she has a 8 years old daughter.
As a Romanian I have a direct experience of what living in a totalitarian state means, the fear projected by the authorities toward the people and what State Propaganda means. We were told from kindergarten that the Communist regime is the ultimate goal of every nation, that our way of living is the best in the world. On the State only media (there were no independent news sources back then, only two anti-propaganda short waves radio programs in Romanian language from Voice of America and Radio Free Europe which, if you were caught listening to you would end up in jail) we were bombarded constantly with images of how bad is living in the free world ( the drugs, the social injustice of poor vs. rich, the waiting lines of those hit by unemployment waiting outside social services office and so on). In the same time we were presented constantly the great achievements of the workers in all the branches of the economy, the record crops from our fields (while we were given rationalized portions of bread and milk) the outstanding progress of technology (while, in 1989, 95% of the TV sets in the country where still black and white) and so on… All this served to nothing. Truth was in the very front of our eyes, but we could not speak up about it because of fear that we will be targeted by the State Political Police. Until enough of us we got fed up and it exploded in a bloody mess called Revolution.
Now…with this picture in mind, can you imagine yourselves, the Norwegians, how long you will be able to hang on this utopia ideas that your government pictures for you about Barnevernet and his role to give the best life for each child in Norway, the same way that the Communist Party was doing his role to give us the best life in Romania? By force? State against individual, is it fair, if you do not have the legislative means to oppose? Can you resist if THE STATE is coming after you?
Have you heard of a poem called “First they came …”? Is a famous statement and provocative poem written by Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis’ rise to power and the subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility.
“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
Now…do you understand WHY we are feeling compelled to speak about the atrocities done by Barnevernet to so many families in Norway in the name of a NAZI ideology about the Norwegian State role in the children’s life? It is your choice to turn a blind eye on this. But we choose to speak about this. And I personally hold every Norwegian responsible for supporting the NAZI ideology if he choose to turn a blind eye toward his Government policies. So, dear Topsy, dear Knut Nygaard, for me you are just as NAZI as your Government. I told the same to my sister and brother in law, they choose as well not to speak about the matter.
Although this will not change Topsy’s view, viatainroz, it is an excellent statement explaining why Romanians are so involved in this criminal activity.
Pastor Martin Niemöller’s words echo today against brick walls in Norway. It is a statement meant to instruct, but certain Norwegians are above instruction.
Thank you for making such a strong and true statement, viatainroz.
Hi. Thank you everybody out there for speaking up for us parents here in Norway. We are many, we are scared, we have no hope. Please help us deliver this pain and suffering this restriction of speaking up, to recist to the government are too risky for us. I am a single mother. I sent my 8 year child across the street of my working place after work to buy ice cream. Some people saw him alone and talking to a stranger in front of the ice cram fridge. They called the police. When my child came out too me with ice cream my child went to the lunch room. The police came into my work place asking for my child and the man my child was speaking with. We had to lie to the police. That we did not see a child. If they had seen him with the ice cream they would have taken him to interrogation to barnehuset. Removed him from his home beacause I didn’t watch him this second. I was so scared, luckily I was sparred this time, next time I don’t think before I let him out playing or anything else unforeseen happens I will loose my child for not being there all the time. This is the terror, everyday terror I live with. In a city of 60.000 people. I know about 20 parents scarred to death to get in the same situation as me with the ice cram insidence. I know of hundreds of people I have spoken to that live in fear. Working as a personal coach so people dare to speak with me. We live in fear, in restriction, we are suffocated in our own country. To scared to resist, too speak. Please help us. Talk for us. We need you out there speaking for us.
Dear Scarred,
Since Norway is such a rich country, I would expect everyone to have internet access. Yet, look at the blog hits here from your country. It is not enough. I am glad you are here but I have a request:
Please share this blog with the friends whom you trust. If enough people in your country become aware of this problem (And I believe that many already are) aware of the real stories and the issues surrounding them, aware of the fact that more of the world is waking up to this evil, just maybe they will rise up and demand accountability from those who destroy families.
I do not know about the Bodnario case,It is one of thousands we have in Norway every year. Like in every other contry in Europe Why do you think we care more of this than all the children suffering in Syria? We care! We are brought up as christians: what happens to you neightbour,happens toous! The reason i am engaging in this is that you all are misinformed. Thats all.
Please inform yourself about the Bodnariu case. Click on the tab at the top of this site. Thank you.
The Bodnario case is just another case in Norway/Europa/Usa/etc
. We do not know anything 100 %. for sure I could tell you stories about my family
-or my albanien friend-or italien or ukrainian,or greek ……. or whatever………..Child upbringing is diffrent wherevere you go
What is common is that we all have to follow the LAW!!! Or what?
.
You are making it worse than it is here in Norway and it is unfair
!
The way we are portraited on this blogg is an offense to the norwegian people and the Nowegian State,
And there you loose all interest in the common Norwegians – and as you read now, Mr. Prunean – you and the movement are offenders more than acitivists working for some changes to the better for the inhabitants of a nations having laws that you don’t live under.
This comment shows just how warped your thinking is, Knut.
Topsy, you are misinformed, you said you are not familiar with the Bodnariu case though you mentioned that I have been reading everything you have posted for months:This are your words.You must have been asleep all this time or ?
The CPS have taken our children and you are wandering what is wrong with us?
You must be out of your mind!
Come in the beautiful mountains of Romania and try to take the cubs from a mother bear and while the bear will shred you to pieces please ask her why is she behaving like that?
You people have lost every bit of humanity and i will dare to say that you have become lower than an animal since an animal would not give up his young.
I still do not know anything about the Bodnariou case. I am not their lawyer or working for the CPC . I have only read the newspaper.
This is the response i get from this blog:
You people have lost every bit of humanity and i will dare to say that you have become lower than an animal since an animal would not give up his young
I rest my case. Is this cristianity?
Where”s the love you christians all speasks about? Why are you hammering our little country with these allegations? Bodnariou are 1 case,why judge us all.
You can find the love of the Christians all over by taking the risk of defending the Children and families from the Children Poaching System of Norway called Barnevernet. Some of them lost their jobs for what’s right. Take for exemple Mr. George Alexander, my Norwegian neighbor that left the Paradise you describe to be with his children and wife. He described Norway as a worse than communism. Don’t lie like all of the other totalitarian propagandists!!! Get informed and after that talk. Doesn’t look good for you.
.
Topsy we are not speaking love, we are living the love. I am from Australia and spend numerous hours looking into Bodnariu case and have organized a protest here in Adelaide , spend money and time in support of our friend and brother and why not exposing our selfs to rescue Norway from this deadly ideology, of kidnapping our dear children without a sound reason , without a court process….
I’m wandering what the love you claim to have have forced you to do?
Wake up and take a stand for justice before they will come for your children and then, who will stand up for you?
I’m afraid I might find it hard to take a stand for you if you keep on the other side of the fence.
Why is it ok for you talk about Norway in this condecending way? It is only 1 case? Why do you filter so much hate by having this blog?Do you have any bad experience with norway/norwegian people?
There is not just one case though. Many people are taking courage and coming out, sharing their own stories.
Topsy, There is not HATE we are talking about. Christ taught us: love your enemy.
No protester against Bvet abuses does this because of hate. This is just a label put on people who are disgusted -as you are of us – by the huge number of children separated from families; parents who “lack of parental skills” are the great majority in the world… who can say “I am a perfect parent” and be true? Your CP system may be good in lots of cases, it is wrong when acting brutally and without applying even the national law. This is scary, even if there was ONE child abused like this. A parent may be wrong, even he might deserve punishment (a fine!), but why punish the child as well? Don’t you realise that being forcibly removed from a familiar world, natural connexions, is the biggest traumatism a child can encounter?
The cases you read on the internet is the persons involved version only. We don’t know the whole and full truth in the Bodnariu case. Why this silence from the Bodnariu organization after the baby was reunited with their family. I’m sure there must be some given reasons for not the return of the four others. What will happen in the month of May? The movement should be focused on this case going on right now and not the something else part without any considered content.
“Topsy, There is not HATE we are talking about. Christ taught us: love your enemy.
No protester against Bvet abuses does this because of hate.”
Awesome and truthful response here, agnesD…for Christians. Unfortunately, there are unbelievers who do hate the Bvet because of what they have done. There are probably some Christians who are incorrect in their hate of the BV. Maybe they have never been taught this verse and have never experienced forgiving someone who has harmed them greatly. Without the Holy Spirit’s help, this kind of forgiveness is impossible.
Add to the tragedy for most Norwegians effected by this cruelty that it still continues on a daily basis. One must have the Holy Spirit’s help on a daily basis.
agnesD: ” This is scary, even if there was ONE child abused like this.”
This is central. Should one not bother about murders because there are so few? Not about people being defrauded if they are few?
Of course not. The seriousness of tearing a family apart and depriving children of their parents is so serious that the whole foundation of a ‘service’ which thinks that is all right and shrug their shoulders at individual cases, must be condemned and thrown out, to make room for a real social service.
agnesD: “Don’t you realise that being forcibly removed from a familiar world, natural connexions, is the biggest traumatism a child can encounter?”
Yes. Incredible that one can speak of love and not see and understand this, I think.
Do you have anything to say about parents suffering for their children were confiscated for trivial reasons in Norway? It’s hypocritical to say that we don’t have love because we are helping the helpless families that were distroyed by this evil Barnevernet. I know that there are gullible people in Norway that believe all the state’s propaganda. I don’t know what we can do for children in Syria but I know that Norway falsely claims to be democratic while using Nazi techniques to kidnap children from loving families.
You are a liar! A LIAR! You wrote ” I have been reading everything you have posted for months” … and later “I do not know about the Bodnario case” !!!
You are reading everything but you do not know about we are writing here. What a liar… like Knut!
Please,my friend : I have been reading
,but i do not know!!!! I am no part of this!! Hello! Are U?
You have made conflicting statements, Topsy. It is very similar to Knut.
Knut must be smart then…… Suddenly i am in the Cps or FBI CIA or whatever…
I don’t understand the logic, Topsy.
You both make conflicting statements and it has something to do with your intelligence? Conflicting comments can be made on purpose to try and confuse others. As I can’t read your mind, I don’t know which of the two possibilities you fit: purposefully attempting to cause confusion or lack of understanding.
No one knows what organization you belong to that I’m aware of and I don’t think anyone has asked. Is there an organization that you belong to that you want to share with us?
Norway…up side down country,i am a parent , i have 5 kids , i love them, they are the reason for me to live ,to work,but i have to discipline them some time,so if i would be in Norway i would have the same problem like Marius Bodnariu .That is the reason i went to protest on the street,I AM BODNARIU,and we are many,66300 on april 16…we feel that the secular state want to take our children so can not stay indifferrent to it and let this” virus”spread all over the world .
Amen, G m.
If you spanking is the way to discipline your 5 children you will have a problem in Norway and most other nations in the world. The spanking was done of both parents and not just of Marius. If Norway is a secular nation it should be obvious that is an internal situation that can’t be altered by Christians outside the nation marching to the end of times. We live in the beginning of the dark age and all over the world people turn away from Christianity for lots of reasons. As Christians living our lives in faith we shall not fear and trust God for being with us and watching over us. And we shall – as always done by real Christians – speak the truth. If you believe what you comment then you are misguided and forgiven – if you are an activist and truth is no longer important – the cause is and if a shared story is mixed with truth and lies – and you know it .. then …
“We live in the beginning of the dark age and all over the world people turn away from Christianity for lots of reasons.”
Finally, you have made a true statement, Knut. Unfortunately, I had to take it out of context as it is backwards. The world is becoming a dark age. It will be like that before Jesus returns.
There used to be a time in my country that, if parents weren’t around and children were misbehaving, complete strangers would discipline them. Sadly, those days are mostly gone.
It was a stupid comment,i”ll admit to that. I am an old woman and i was tired. What i ment is : when i have discussions;people have the tendency to compare me with others who have a similar view like it is somthing bad. And the next level is paranoia and accusations of me being in some kind of organizations. When i read your answer,it seems to me you do not respect others. Am i not intelligent? Because we see the world differently? Have i been talking down on you?Do you think that Knut is stupid? I am defending my country and fellow residents,i have no hidden agenda but too speak my truth. I do not express aything bad about your country, why is it ok for you to look down on mine?
What concerns me is the hate i see everywhere and i have always thougth that Christianity would raise above that.
Where did I call you stupid, Topsy? You stated:
“It was a stupid comment,i”ll admit to that.”
You are harder on yourself than I am.
I stated:
“I don’t know which of the two possibilities you fit: purposefully attempting to cause confusion or lack of understanding.”
I don’t think you meant the former now.
“Lack of understanding” has nothing to do with intelligence. The most intelligent person on the planet has lack of understanding on many matters.
“You both make conflicting statements and it has something to do with your intelligence? ”
Maybe i misunderstood. I thought you ment i was stupid because you did not understand my point of view. Diffrent language and interpretation.
You misunderstood me Topsy.
This is what I wrote:
“You both make conflicting statements and it has something to do with your intelligence? Conflicting comments can be made on purpose to try and confuse others. As I can’t read your mind, I don’t know which of the two possibilities you fit: purposefully attempting to cause confusion or lack of understanding.”
Do you see the question mark after the word intelligence, Topsy. Because there is no voice, you cannot hear my tone. It is a question that questions not your intelligence. I am saying there are two possibilities: 1) that you are purposefully attempting to cause confusion (which I don’t think is the case anymore) or 2) that in this case you lack understanding. I think this fits you. You are not stupid, nor did I say that as I don’t call people stupid usually, particularly in print.
You may disagree with my thinking that I believe you lack understanding on this subject, but that is completely your right.
We who have followed this blog for some time understand what your “service” is, Chris. You are the person who give a thumb up for anything that come from activists and the propaganda machine in this one-eyed movement. When someone come with a comment that is not in the movement order your “service” is to put in some words that you find suit the cause of this movement. You think suspect people of being members of some organization just for speaking out their opinion – an opinion somewhat different than yours and Mrs. M.
You have finally said something right, Knut. I am in the Lord’s “service” and most who follow this blog understand this.
Than i apologise. I am very sorry i misunderstood.
About my “lack of understanding”; you are right.
I live in this country and i know how things work here. If you have been a norwegian,we would have a totaly different discussion. We would have been talking about how to improve Norway and learn from our mistakes. We would have been focusing on development. We would not spend our time trying to degrade another country and the people living there. Why is that so important?
You are forgiven, Topsy, and you are right. There is no sense degrading an entire country for what is happening there. Our energies need be spent trying to fix problems like the one covered on this blog. Norway was once seen by the world as a great country. Some still see it that way but things are changing. It has been given a “black eye” by the Barnevernet. This should be the focus as their are still many great people in Norway. Because of the CPS there, it is losing its reputation as a free society worldwide.
God’s blessings…
Topsy: “We would not spend our time trying to degrade another country and the people living there. Why is that so important?”
It is important to try and help people who are being persecuted and have their families destroyed. It is important not to be self-satisfied, we are not so wonderful in this country, for very many people. You should not be an enemy to people elsewhere who do open their eyes and try to help people in need here. It is important for the persecuted families here to find help and support from other countries, since most Norwegians will not help them but instead condemn them.
If you live in Norway, there is no reason why you should not make an effort to know what is going on at the hands of Barnevernet. There is plenty of evidence, you just have to start. There are lots of families who are willing to tell their story AND to show or publish the documents in their case. But of course you have to approach them with humility sensitivity and willingness to say: It DOES concern us all.
You might perhaps think about Øverland’s words: “Du må ikke sitte trygt i ditt hjem og si: Det er sørgelig, stakkars dem!” (You must not sit safely in your home and say: What a pity, pity for them!)
Very well said Marianne. I think the families are double punished. First punishment is of course when their children are taken away and second when they are condemned by the majority. I have read a very sad & nice article on that matter. What happens to parents when their child dies compared to what happens to parents when they loose their child to social services. It was really sad.
For me is also important, what is happening after the children have been removed. Why can parents see their children only few hours a year and why can other family members see them also for such a limited time. Why are these meetings in such a hostile environment, I heard from many that its some secret place, plain building, it can not be even something fun, like going to the zoo or some attraction park? Of course having those supervised visits, where the social workers make their notes does not help either. Children who can only see their family few hours a year will be estranged from them in few years., if they are old enough that can take a longer time, if they are small it mostly takes shorter. Of course there are exceptions, but I can imagine it happens like that more often. What is most painful to the parents then their own child not willing to see them anymore? I find the way the whole biological family is often treated, horrible. Its not possible to break all biological ties just like that, its a crime.
“I heard from many that its some secret place, plain building, it can not be even something fun, like going to the zoo or some attraction park? Of course having those supervised visits, where the social workers make their notes does not help either.”
Many good points here, Pavla.
I actually supervised a visitation at a pizza place once. I worked for a local non-profit Christian organization that was trusted by the local authorities so much that we got to do visitations without the DHS workers being there. I did hundreds of visitations over 5 years. Most of them took place in a very friendly environment that had toys and games. The parents could bring food. We did take notes but we were hardly noticed as the parents and children were enjoying themselves so much. Our reports were honest as they had to be. In some cases, I had to be critical of the parental attitude towards the child. One time the parent came for their one hour a week visit and spent almost the entire time on the phone. I warned this mom that this was not going to look good on my report but she didn’t care. I can’t remember why she had her child taken but I didn’t see the usual love a parent has for their child in that case. I had to be honest on my report. In the vast majority of cases, however, good reports were given.
Help? In what way do you help the Bodnariu family? You and the other chronics just use them as ammunition for the movement of what?? – something else – no, it’s not for something else – it’s just for Mrs. M’s else and that indicates a full revolution with Mrs. M as the dictator. She and her opinions are the one and only ruling factor for the coming ( no, it will never come and she knows it – it’s just a dream – something that makes the days going.
We, in the CPS and the Norwegian media, don’t show the families faces, but they are posters for an organization that for the moment is doing .. what?? .. to help this particular family .. or .. is it better for the movement that they end up as martyrs .. then the energy and the hatred will stay longer and give the chronics some entertainment for some months more.
Yeah, there are some – not many – some families that use facebook to tell someone about their story, but the reader do not know if this is the whole truth, some truth or just an emotional version omitting everything related to the parentpart,
Who are you “talking” to here, Knut?
“. or .. is it better for the movement that they end up as martyrs .. then the energy and the hatred will stay longer and give the chronics some entertainment for some months more.”
What is meant by this? None of us want this family to end up as martyrs. These are some serious words, Knut.
I am glad that facebook can be used for communication that you can’t see from your own people. You shut Facebook down and the entire world will know about this evil system. Please do that so that we can move this thing along much faster.
I wrote something in a Norwegian blog about the demonstration I took part in on 16th April in Geneve and about my thoughts around it. I based it on the beautiful Romanian song we sang about being a united family in Christ. I called my article; “The family who loves”. I `ve only written it in norwegian so far. But I will translate it into english as soon as i have time:-)
http://www.verdidebatt.no/debatt/cat19/subcat20/thread11640429/#post_11640429
Great, Hildi.
I would love to read it.
I have put in links to it, Hildi; under the heading of “Geneva”. Let me know when the English version appears, so that I can change the Norwegian one for it in the English thread:
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37224#p37224
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?p=37218#p37218
(I am very far behind with my linking to demonstration picture, videos and so on, but I hope slowly to catch up again.)
That’s great! Thank you, Marianne! I guess your work must have grown considerable since the Bodnariu case! Thank you so much for your diligence and most accurate investigations behind the facts you are sharing with us!
I will share in English as soon as I can and then let you know:-)
Hildi:
I guess your work must have grown considerable since the Bodnariu case!
Yes and no, but mostly no! The reason for that is that over the last few years we have been able to gather so much material which is easily accessible because it is on the internet, that it is no longer so time-consuming as writing from scratch certainly is. And we have so much article material translated into English now, that I can often just list a few references to people asking. I could still keep several “assistants” well occupied doing more of the same – – sort of “Please do what I am thinking of!” but at least I feel that we have, as regards information, reached the top of a steep road and it is levelling out more.
So it seems more like it is the efficiency of trying to spread information and the response which have increased, not the toil of assembling and presenting it.
Hildi:
“Thank you so much for your diligence and most accurate investigations behind the facts you are sharing with us!”
Thank YOU! Most of the time I try to give references, e.g. to articles by other people, or to articles which lead on to other articles or books or court judgments (the Strasbourg ones are quite open, it would be a good thing if Norwegian court cases were completely open too, so that people could no longer comfort themselves by thinking that everything is ok if a court has come up with a decision). I know quite well that many do not bother to check such references, but at least they are there, so that it is possible to start gathering information from several sources. Which is exactly what is done in ordinary work when trying to understand things properly, and exactly what is done in science.
Talking of information, I see that Mr Nygaard and Topsy both seem to believe that I am practically the person introducing and “managing” the Bodnariu case here on DiT, and imagine that I have some kind of secret agenda and fancy myself as a leader of criticism of Barnevernet elsewhere too.
If they went back to earlier articles (accessible by clicking into “Older posts” down at the bottom of DiT), they would find that that is not so. The Bodnariu case was prominent there before I found DiT – a general search on some words like “Barnevernet” and “Bodnariu” was probably the reason I discovered DiT. And speaking out against Barnevernet’s abuses is speaking out against Barnevernet’s abuses – it is not “something else”.
The reason why there aren’t many other Norwegians writing in the same vein as me on DiT is quite likely that although most Norwegians have some English, rather fewer of them feel they can WRITE in English with ease and without it taking way too much time. Added to that, many Barnevern victims have been brought by Barnevernet into such despair that it takes more strength than they feel they have to debate regularly in a language not their own.
All points you have made in this comment are well thought out and documented, Marianne. I wish you had a bit of the Barnevernet budget to hire a few assistants.
Our society has become a society of fright, as this article clearly shows. Whatever experiences we might have with barnevernet, this is reality. I know a family when telling the principal at the primary school that the children were going on a holiday and would be out of school for 4 days, were told that he might tell barnevernet. A few days earlier the principal told the parents that their childrenen had very high skills, both socially and in the subjects. The parents were of course shocked by this, and when referring to what they were told earlier, the answer was: “Yes, and that I will inform barnevernet of! And barnevernet need more money, so they say!
Horne yesterday had a meeting with among others the unions that most CPS’s are members of. One thing the unions have on their block is the staffing of the municipal CPS’s.
From our national statistics we can read the the municipal CPS is active for 0,9% of their inhabitants. We find how many children the CPS normally give their services to by taking the total number of inhabitants – divide the number by 100 and multiply with 0,9%. For a municipal with 20.000 inhabitants that will give 180 children normally active in some kind of CPS case.
The unions have as a goal to give each CPS case handler between 9 to 15 names as their main responibility. In this municipal above 9 names will give 20 workers – 15 children will give 12. At my office we have around 20 each. More workers will give better quality and safety in the work done.
The unions underline the importance of staffing small municipalities – under 5000 inhabitants – with 4-5 workers to avoid vulnerability with f.i. sick leaves, holiday season, vacations and the possibilty of several severe cases and emergencies to be handled at the same time.
file:///C:/Users/Dell/Downloads/Bemanningsnorm_barnever%20(1).pdf
I am surprised the unions do not want to staff small municipalities with at least 100 case workers. You could all spend time drinking coffee and chat with each other in between emergency missions to save children from their dreadful parents. I would happily pay 100% of my income to support the case workers. What Norway need at this moment in time is a bigger Barnevernet! You nailed it right on spot, Knut.
More money will make Barnevernet take up even more cases in the same manner as they do at present, causing pain and fear for families, for the children at least as much as for the adults. I understand very well that Andras Dugeniuc’s children panicked.
Knut, your heart is hard and cold as a hammer.
All the time you are writing that we who are protesting pro Bodnariu have a hiden agenda.
You can not even put yourself in the shoes of the Bodnariu family whoes 5 children have been kidnaped by the sick evil Barnevernet.
This is our pain, we will not stop till you do the right thing and return the children. Norway behaves badly and disregard simple human rights.
Norway have done the same thing to thousands more Norwegian families and has caused a lot of pain and distruction. Knut the law in Norway having to do with the taking of Bodnariu children have not been resoected.
We protest to the fact that Barnevernet disregard their own laws and is causing so much pain.
You must have watch my speach at the protest on Adelaide Australia where i outlined this issues.
If the children are returned to their parents; what is the next step? To continue this “war against Norway”? Why don”t you care about what is happening in your own backround?
We do care, Topsy. But Jesus told us to love our neighbors.
And you care by being condesending towards the country and system of the Bodnariu children? It is their homeland.
Topsy, it is a good name for the “best” of the 3 of you.
How is loving one’s neighbor being condescending?
At least Knut and Veronika let us know who they were, Topsy.
Daniel – this is a legal case between the CPS in Naustdal and the parents with their two lawyers. We all hope for the reunion, but I don’t know all the details in this case. I heard the Councilman in Naustdal stress the point that it is important to listen to what children say – and I hope it in this case go both ways – no more parental violence and I think the children will home – so – if done from my office we would have taken it from there months ago.
This would in that case been something my office had done according to the same law that applies in Naustdal – and not because of a movement reacting – I hope you see that that would have been almost as corruption. If a family stear up enough effort and people – then the people decide – forget it – this is a legal case where we can pray and hope for His wisdom to come upon the conclusions to be done.
The CPS and the police started the case after their assessments according to Criminal Law and the Child Welfare Act – this was regarded as an emergency – not a concern leading to a letter to the parents and the further cooperation in an investigation ending with a conclusion within 3 months.
Here is the official number of Anti-Barnevernet protests and participants on April 16, 2016:
https://armoniamagazineusa.com/2016/04/30/cifre-oficiale-16-april-la-miting-urile-pro-bodnariu-anti-barnevernet/
Have anyone here ever considered the impact this has on the childeren of Bodnario and other similar cases? Can you imagine the burden they are carrying on their tiny sholders? From what i understand, it was the 2 eldest girls who told the Cps how they felt about their family. Do you think they knew the consequenses? Do you think that they wanted all this attention and that they forever would be marked as: one of the poor child from the Bodnariou case? Do you all seriously mean that we should never listen to what the children tell us? All they did was to talk to a grown up person expecting to be taking seriously. And now their names are on strangers lips all over the globe. Would you like to be discussed and analyzed continiously? I understand the support towards the parents, we all need that in hard times. What i do not understand is the lack of thinking about the consequense for the future of these children.
Apparently Topsy thinks she DOES know the truth about the Bodnariu case after all.
But no, this is not what is destroying their lives. They want to go home. They are hurt and harmed by being kept away from their family.
Everyone who fights against Barnevernet’s abuses thinks about the children. You should not let yourself be caught into today’s ideologically twisted beliefs regarding what children want and need. If there is one thing that is clear both from personal stories and even more from statistics, it is that a life under Barnevernet is destructive to children, in by far MOST cases.
Do you know the truth than? There is no war against barnevernet in Norway. It is only you and some thousands who choose to spread your hate around. My guess is that it is not only barnevernet you hate.
Topsy you have asked that we should not listen to what the children are tellin us?
We said theat the only think CPS did was only listen to what small children said, and that in a difficult seting outside of the family confort and under leading questions from the CPS staff.
No where in a civilized world this would take place.
We are familiar with this process because we come from a former comunist country where this kind of interogation wes rutine.
What is worst about Norway they impose such methods on small children without their family consent.
This is barbaric dating 500 years ago.
What CPS should have done is to fallow up with an investigat I on and if something was wrong to worn and help the parents to change.
Your beautifull country Norway is sinking rapidly and you are all asleap.
In my speach i have outlined this metters.
Listen to it at
Adelaide against Barnevernet.
Daniel Popas speach.
Please open your eyes to the truth.
Topsy, when the Bodnariu girls say they want to go back home why are not taken seriously by Barnevernet. It looks like when Barnevernet listens it’s only one way street and that’s Barnevernet way. Why in six months the parents had seen the girls only one time, this doesn’t ring any bell to you? The girls never said they want to be taken from home. This is the real trauma in those children, to be taken away from their parents and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize it.
Don’t get upset when people compares Norway’s CPS with Nazi, it’s an understatement! And one more thing … nobody hates Norwegian people, on the contrary we love them, but Norway has this institution that is above any law and this sooner or later will be changed.
They have only seen the girls once in 6 months, Adi? Are you sure? If it is so, it is criminal behavior.
Chris, they saw the girls in the second part of February, after a previous discussion through skype. After this, I don’t think it was mentioned anymore, but does not make any difference as long as they are not at home together.
At that time only Ruth was allowed to see the baby Ezekiel and the other two boys Matthew and John.
Good point, Adi.
Why don’t you ask the Bodnariu organization what’s going on? It’s been silent from that quarter since the baby come home. No, it’s not above any law – the parents have two lawyers from the Reikerås arena so there must be plenty of information around of what has been said and done during this six months. The lawyers must have said and done something – or?
The lawyers are smart, Knut. There is a reason for their silence.
Knut, when a court of law decides against a Barnevernet administrative decision and Barnevernet does not obey the decision isn’t this above the law?
When Barnevernet decisions destroy the life of so many families and they are not supporting any consequences doesn’t this mean they are above the law?
An emergency case follows this order:
To start an emergency case the leader of the municipal CPS and the legal advisor must have given the green light – a concern has to be made and handed over to the leader of the County Board within 48 hours which give a temporary approval.
The municipal then have maximum 6 weeks to hand over a case for the County Board. The County Board then can use the time needed to schedule the case.
The parents with their lawyer can appeal the emergency concern.
After the County Board has received the appeal the Board has one week to consider if the terms for the emergency use are present. Theprivate part – the parents and their lawyer and the CPS meet the leader of the County Board.
If the Board find the terms to be present the private part can appeal. The appeal is to be treated in Tingretten and may go further to Lagmannsretten who themselves consider if the case shall be carried out by this Court.
At the same time – parallel – a case is prepared for an ordinary treatment in the County Board.
When the case has been treated in the Board and a verdict is given both the CPS and the private part can give their approval which then go to Tingretten and from there further in ordinary Court Sessions.
The child involved stay with the CPS till the case is closed.
Topsy, you have to catch up with what we previously discussed on this website.
Here is an article about what we think happened with Bodnariu’s children too:
https://delightintruth.com/2016/03/10/you-have-to-say-it-or-we-will-never-be-finished/
Also, I recommend you to read this:
http://newsnetcrestin.blogspot.ro/2016/04/the-american-conservative-norsemen.html
Thank you for sharing.
I understand where you are comming from,but as a norwegian habitant my “job”is to tell you that you are misled by people here who are twisting facts. It is not as bad as portraited here in Norway.
You are welcome. I understand that you were not aware about what’s happening in the CPS business in Norway since you have never had to deal with them.
I published an article in English and Norwegian at the link below where I explained what are the red flags for us regarding Barnevernet and Norwegian system:
https://armoniamagazineusa.com/2016/03/03/med-barnevernet-er-norge-pa-nedtur/
There were a lot of horrible things that happened in Romania under Ceausescu’s regime. Not all of us were aware of them. The only ones that talked about those things were the victims. If no one would have listened (believed) to the victims, the rest of the world would have thought that Ceausescu regime was OK.
Now, referring to Norway, it is not normal to confiscate children from families for “lack of parental skills” without giving them a chance to improve those skills.
I doubt that you one could say that there is no abuse under the foster parents’ care and there are no mistakes done by Barnevernet’s employees regarding children removal. These mistakes shall not be seen as minors. As a Norwegian, please show me how many CPS’s employees were convicted for mishandling these kids. If in Norway there is a free press and fair justice, please show us how many foster parents abused children and who was punished for that. If CPS workers are not convicted when committing such errors, how can one believe that they are extremely careful not to commit any errors? It’s hilarious how in Norway, the public perception is that there is a great number of biological parents that are abusive with their children while strangers (CPS and foster parents) treat them fairly. The fact that there are parents that are abusive does not give license to Barnevernet to confiscate children as they please from loving families without any signs of abuse. Bodnariu’s children did not have any signs of abuse on their bodies when they were kidnaped by Barnevernet from their parents but got scratches and bruises under CPS’s care.
So, where is the misleading? When talking about ‘abuse’, where is more abuse, in biological families or under CPS’s care? The fact that the media and your judicial system does not make big deal of CPS’s abuses makes you believe that the system is perfect.
I hear you.
But-do you mean i should just toss away my trust in the legal system or our goverment? If people are dissatisfied we try to change the system and the laws by voting. Why are you attacing the Cps when they are only performing the law? You should demonstrate against our power brokers instead.
Not to blindly trust the authorities and starting to ask critical question, would be a great first step. I have never understood where that trust comes from? I see quite a difference between Norwegians and Czechs and Romanians for example. We do question our authorities and its a very healthy thing to do.
You say how the children will be affected by having their stories published? Well many people here think that they are affected much more by being separated from their family, siblings, living hours away from their home. The Bodnariu girls live with foster parents and have another 3 foster siblings. They want to go back home and be with their siblings, they dont want another foster siblings. They have written a letter to be able to go home.
Why do you think there is so much protest against barnevernet, do you know that there are many groups against BV that are in Norway. On Facebook there are many, one of them has almost 13 000 members.
I have absolutely no interest in bashing Norway or Norwegians. But I disagree with system that is breaking families and disregards biological family. There are grandparents that are not able to see the children, some of them have not seen their grandchildren in years..others have very limited visitation. How about cousins, aunts, uncles etc? Why are children only heard when they say something against their parents, but not heard when they want to come back home? Unless something very serious has happened in the family, there is no reason for removing the children from the family. That is much bigger abuse.
I do not blindly trust anyone or authorities. We are never going to have “a perfect world”on this planet,We are human beings and we make mistakes. We all seek to be the best of what we can become. I do not belive anyone would hurt their child/children if they knew the impact it would have. Children are “small grownups” and it is our (grownups) job to listen to them. If they are saying that they are biten,we must trust them. Otherwise;i think they will grow up carrying a lot of anger and distrust if they wheren”t heard. Our system in Norway is not breaking families.
We listen to the voices of the children.
So, you are unaware of the many children who ask to be reunited with their children, Topsy?
Topsy, I think that is what we are trying to do. What do you mean by power brokers? Is there someone holding the puppet strings over the Barnevernet? If you can tell us who they are, we will demonstrate against them.
Until the power brokers are identified, we have to criticize those who are performing the law because it is a law without due process. That means there is no freedom in this part of the democratic country of Norway. It makes the world see Norway as less democratic when there is no due process of law.
Power brokers: our goverment. Which we have voted for. So all the blame on Cps is a blame to us.
I think that is the correct answer. We have the same problem in our country. The people are rudderless.
Rudderless? What do you mean? I do not understand that word,
What i do know is; responsability. We all in Norway has created our goverment by voting for years and decades. I do not agree nor like the current goverment, but i have to respect the major opinion.What i can do is to contiue voting for what i belive is important for Norways future. And by blogging bad things about the cps is getting me nowhere.
Rudder: a flat piece, usually of wood, metal, or plastic, hinged vertically near the stern of a boat or ship for steering.
In other words, Topsy, it keeps a ship going in the direction it should go.
I don’t think CPS is just following the law or probably an unwritten law and it takes advantage of some cracks in the law. The state gave too much power to CPS and they are using that power to abuse families. We put pressure on the Norwegian government to take away that unreasonable power from Barnevernet and start a new CPS based on different regulations and focused on helping families not distroying them. Confiscating children from loving families for “lack of parental skills” and then NOT doing anything to help these families to improve their parental skills to get the kids back represents indeed crimes against humanity. Barnevernet confiscated children from parents even in cases when one of the parents got sick. What kind of “democracy” is that in a country in which you may loose your children even if you get sick. The attachment between parent and child does not count in Norway.
A parent getting sick. Case e) here:
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page125/page125.html
Octavian – is your spyglass from Phonix foggy or [******]? Both you and I know that the Bodnariu case came from the daughters telling about their daily life with – like it or not – in Norwegian context – violent abusive parents. What in detail is told I don’t know, but the way I remember the Costea version written in ?? February the father had confirmed some of the violence – but not all – and that give the CPS the choice – either listen to what the daughters told or what the father – maybe if confirming more – would have to go to prison. Ruth has told about her parental violence both on Romanian TV and the BBC.
I think the parents should have the children reunited with help measures from the information given by the Costea version.- but – after that there has been several things going on resulting in the baby back home and the four others still in foster homes. As far as I know the Bodnariu organization is silent about what’s going on at what coming up in May – 31th?
Scratches and bruises are a part of the childhood. I have not read that the boys have told anyone about abusive forsterparents. It’s when the children tell or confirm abuse the police and the CPS get involved – take the children to safety and examin the conditions the children live under and then decide what is possible – all done according to the Child Welfare Act.
If fosterparents or CPS’ s do something that might be an criminal act and some report it then it’s up to the court to decide and give their verdict. I think the parents lawyer give the advise that it’s almost impossible to win such cases unless the harm done is almost obvious and severe.
I believe to think that a citizen living in Norway has a better window to consider the daily life than you, Octavian.
Barnevernet chose their interpretation of the word” violent” to use it to reach their goal:take kids away from biological familly but physicall corection and violence are not the same and should not be treated with same legal actions.This is where BV is wrong and i am affraid is on purpose.Norway, wake up!These kids want to go back to their mum and daddy because they love them and are NOT violent!
I agree with you G m istratoaie.
The mum and daddy must first of all confirm that they are willing to follow the Norwegian rules and regulations for upbringing without the use of parental violence. In Norwegian context they were violent and that has to be stopped in a convincing way – we would have given the family a set of help measures if it’s not more to the case and details hidden.
As christians they followed norwegian rules up to the point where they were against the word of God…we all should do the same don’t we?
Oh?? So you think Christians are obliged by the Word to dicipline their children in a violent way as a religious duty? Wake up, man – dicipline can of cause be thought in other ways.
Knut, your comparing a simple spanking to violence shows how illogical you are.
Is prov.23 12-13-14 in your bible you read ,mr Knut?KjV translation is universally accepted within christians and clearly say do not withhold correction from the child :for if you beat him with the rod he shall not die but you will deliver his soul from hell!Clear like day light!Make sure you not add or take out of the Word of God in your thinking mr Knut so you don’t loose your right to eternal life as Apocalipse 22.19 says.Note :beating with the rod means correction not violence!
Knut, do you admit that under the provisions of the Child Welfare Act ANY parent from Norway MUST PROVE TO BE ALWAYS A PERFECT PARENT or otherwise can be at anytime targeted by Barnevernet (with or without a concern being made) and have his child forcefully taken away for various reasons? How is that sounding to your common sense? Right or wrong? Normal or terrific? Democratic or totalitarian?
Do you agree that there are no provisions in the Norwegian law to implement the so called “checks and balances” in order to prevent the possibility of abuses from the state apparatus or to correct them as soon as they are spotted? For example: are all the proceedings in the child welfare cases audio+video recorded in order to asses the work conducted by the CPS in any specific case? We all know how easy a child can be mislead to give a false answer to a leading question. Are all the interactions with the child AV recorded from the first moment Barnevernet intervene, so a proper Judge in a Judiciary Court can make a fair judgment of the case? Because we all know that any skillful and especially well paid psychologist can easily lead an innocent kid to tell that you, YES YOU, Knut Nygaard, are Santa Klaus! Would you agree to have your stomach removed for being to fat if such thing happens?
No. this is not true. You have read too much misguiding propaganda. The key to cooperation is just too speak of the fact that nobody is perfect. With a glance out of our office looking towards the apartments in the surrounding high houses – by Norwegian standard – the parents and I agree that we would not find one perfect family in any apartment whatever geography. Then we start looking at the situation in this particular concern and together we work out an investigation plan – who to contact for information – when to come to a home visit – speak with the children involved a.s.o..
The more severe a concern is the more work has to be done. If the investigation end with a conclusion for help measures there is work to be done – if help measures don’t help there is even more work to be done – the dangerous temptation for lazy CPS’s is to take too many concerns to a too light working process and close the case with no measure given.
We in Bergen use Barnehuset – The childrens house – for this kind of conversations. We have ten of those spread all over Norway. The conversation is videotaped and ready for further use both according to criminal law and the Child welfare act.
http://www.statensbarnehus.no/
This is done in cases where the parent(s) or somebody over the criminal lowest age – 15 – are involved and a report is given. With just suspicion it is us in the CPS that investigate and talk without the use of AV. It’s when a child tell or confirm violence or abuse the case work alters.
“With just suspicion it is us in the CPS that investigate and talk without the use of AV. It’s when a child tell or confirm violence or abuse the case work alters.”
Well… according to the official statistic data which shows that only 20% of the cases where an acute decision to remove the child have been taken have serious reasons such as severe violence, sexual abuses or gross neglect (things in most cases obvious from the outside), you are telling me that in the rest of 80% of cases there are no AV recordings of your interaction with the child. That makes me right in claiming that there is a huge possibility of undocumented misuse of psychology in order to get the desired answer from a distressed child.
You write all the time that you aren’t allowed to talk about an open case, yet you continue to do so.
I want you to understand that after the family has been examinated, some of professionals haven’t found any evidence leading them to believe that there was any violent activity going on in the family. You wrote that the daughters have admitted to being abused, yet it only happened after they were kidnapped by the CPS and forcefully interogated with targeted questions.
You said that the mother talked about how she abused her children during a Romanian TV Show, but pushing a child away from the stove to keep them safe or breaking off a fight between siblings is not violence. It is neither spanking nor child abuse. It’s only the interpretation of the CPS.
Apparently you don’t receive too much work, so you are looking for any reason to take a child away from its loving family. I don’t know the family personally, but what happened shocked me more that anything I have ever heard of, which is why people run around peacefully protesting against the abuse of your abusive system against innocent families.
And if on one day on April 16th almost 70,000 people decide to protest on the streets, you should know that there are a lot more people out there who have heard about this outrageous case. That number of people will increase with each day that you keep abusing your powers.
And you defend this institution just like the dictators and tyrants defend their reasoning for harming their citizen.
“I believe to think that a citizen living in Norway has a better window to consider the daily life than you, Octavian”. Believe it or not, the victims of the communist regime talked about their persecution with citizens from U.S. and other countries. That was how the world found out about what was happening in the communist countries.
On the other hand, there are things that one cannot see from inside of a system. As being part of a system you cannot be objective. Also, there are things that the people from inside may have perceived them as being “normal” but from outside the box we see differently. In this case, it’s not enough that Norway decided to get rid of “physical child abuse” by biological parents and put CPS at a high level of trust, inoculating to its citizens idea that CPS always protect children. Norway must do something to protect families from CPS. In Norway it’s very obvious the Government prefers to remove children from families instead of working with families to help them become better parents and return children to them. This needs to change. Otherwise the fight will continue and more and more people will see this abnormality.
“Also, there are things that the people from inside may have perceived them as being ‘normal’ but from outside the box we see differently.”
Excellent point, Octavian.
They have been in the box so long this problem is now multi-generational.
Suranya Aiyar: “Foster care: It’s time to think out of the box”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page292/page292.html
The publishing magazine has taken away the original article – very irritating the way so many do that. But you’ll find a few central paragraphs quoted.
The very idea that one should not internationally both criticise each other, be inspired by each other, and be warned by each other, reminds me of the Soviet Union and China talking about “interference in our internal affairs”. Most of what Norway is and does is of course not home-grown at all, we have had it from Europe and beyond for more than a thousand years, so should we now imagine ourselves self-sufficient?
Here is a recent article I got permission to translate and publish:
Jahn Otto Johansen: Self-righteous Norway
http://www.mhskanland.net/page120/page343/page343.html
http://forum.r-b-v.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=8279
(The Norwegian original is better, it has some priceless expressions which are almost untranslateable. The author has not had time to look at my translation yet, so I don’t know if he wants changes.)
It is a very interesting article, Marianne. I only wish I could get the tone by understanding the nuances of the article. Thank you for sharing.
Chris:
“It is a very interesting article, Marianne. I only wish I could get the tone by understanding the nuances of the article. Thank you for sharing.”
Good grief, Chris, do you want to give me an excuse to let my philological self loose on DiT? Well, perhaps it is useful, even in the context of something as serious as CPS abuses.
Let’s see, it is not so difficult to explain but impossible to include in the article itself. Mostly it’s characterisations of us Norwegians with especially humorous / ironic connotations:
“a Norwegian national from Norway” is originally “en norsk nordmann fra Norge” – literally “a Norwegian Norwegian from Norway”, the first “Norwegian” is an adjective, the second is a substantive. It is a formulation which emphasises our feeling of being unique and excellent.
“I am completely devastated” is originally “Jeg legger meg flat”, literally “I lay me flat”, sort of accepting to do penance for something wrong one has done. But people have taken to saying that as the ONLY reparation they will make, and then they continue as before. Admitting a fault was such a BRAVE deed, they expect to be admired for it and then expect the case to have been sufficiently dealt with by this lip-service.
“You shouldn’t come here and criticise …” is in the original “Du skal ikke komme her og komme her”, literally “You shall not come here and come here.”
A standard expression is “You/Someone shall not come here and ….” and then the sentence is completed by adding the thing which is impertinent or insulting to do; indicating “he is darn well not in a position to …”, “I am as important as he is ….” Then, some years ago, a very humorous singer made it, in a song, into “You shall not come here and come here”, which is in the literal sense meaningless, but it conveys exactly this haughty and offended attitude of a rather silly person, a bit too big for his boots, intending “Who is he to come here and bother me, pretending he knows better” but actually speaking nonsense. So it has actually become a well-known idiom in Norwegian.
“We Norwegians get our back up” – originally “Busta reiser seg på oss nordmenn”, “The bristles rise on us Norwegians ..”, in other words we bristle, we react highly emotionally, in a way that speaks of defensiveness, insufficient familiarity with high civilisation – really sophisticated people can take it in their stride and discuss it rationally, but we react like pigs or some other animal with bristles trying to make itself bigger and more impressive than it is when a dangerous enemy turns up. Johansen also uses the feminine form “busta” instead of the perhaps less marked “busten”, which is perhaps (but one cannot be certain, which makes it even more subtle for a reader like me, who does not have feminine gender in my form of Norwegian) a slight sign of Norwegians being countrified, not street-wise, not city-conversant.
Hm, I take back that about “busten” being less marked than “busta”. Rather, “busta” is more informal.
“Good grief, Chris, do you want to give me an excuse to let my philological self loose on DiT? Well, perhaps it is useful, even in the context of something as serious as CPS abuses.”
After looking up the definition of phi·lol·o·gy, my answer is “Yes, of course, if it is not too difficult.”
The author of this article is very clever with his use of words. Thank you for taking the time to explain it all to me, Marianne. You must have been an excellent linguistics prof. Your English is better than mine which doesn’t say much. How many languages do you know fairly well? I want the truth. Don’t be modest now.
Easy, Chris: Norwegian and English.
Apart from what you ask:
Of course I know Swedish and Danish well, because the three Scandinavian languages are closely related dialects. So we understand each other perfectly, but we mostly speak our own lingo. My German and French are shamefully bad, because I am so lazy. I can mutter elementary tourist Italian and Turkish (but then when somebody wants to sell you something they understand you anyway) and I’ll gladly give you a course of Turkish and especially (quite advanced – that wasn’t modest, now) Polynesian grammar. Anything for you?
I appreciate your offer, Marianne.
However, I am having enough trouble with the English language. I’m still learning it and don’t have time for others. Turkish does sound interesting…
Much of the same box you live in – in the Springs – but not so hot. Many of the ideas coming to the CPS is taken from the USA. Most of the guiding programs and change of behaviour programs are in origin American. If you see some of our politicians – do they lick communists?? – no they lick Americans above all by f.i. giving the Noble prize to president Obama just for being a president with a tongue. I don’t think Trump will get the same starter.
Why Mr. Obama got the Nobel Prize is beyond me, Knut.
“Many of the ideas coming to the CPS is taken from the USA.”
I actually think this is true but I would like you to give me an example.
Multisystemic Therapy – The MST method was developed at the Family Services Research Center (FSRC) of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Medical University of South Carolina. Multisystemic therapy (MST) is a home and community based intervention for families of youth with severe psychosocial and behavioral problems that assembles practices from strategic family therapy, structural family therapy, and cognitive behavior therapy in intensive interventions over four to six months. It is based in part on ecological systems theory. Treatment is individualized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisystemic_therapy
Circle of security – The COS intervention and the graphic designed around it are intended to help caregivers increase their awareness of their children’s needs and whether their own responses meet those needs. With increased awareness parents can expand their moment-to-moment parenting choices where needed. In this shift from mind-blindness to seeing what is hidden in plain sight lies the potential to break the stranglehold of problematic attachment patterns, passed from one generation to the next, that can compromise healthy relationships throughout a child’s lifespan.
http://circleofsecurity.net/about-us/
Knut, your Norenglish has disappeared.
This is very well written. You either cut and pasted (which is what I think) or you have been fooling us. I’m not familiar with these Therapies but it sounds like Americans may have made a good contribution here and the contributions haven’t been used well. Is there a professional therapist here who can correct me if needed?
Today a well educated man working in the BUF etat has got an article in the local paper with the headlinge: “Horne, don’t betray these families”. Jan Aarskog is talking about the teen agers that do not follow up school, run away from home and do criminal actions. They have so far received help at home with especially the work manual from Medical University of South Carolina in the USA called Multisystemic Therapy – The MST. He assumes that between 1000 to 1500 with the help of trained MST therapists have come to their senses before the forced placement in a strongly restricted institution was the only option left. He says we in Norway have better results than in Sweden because of the prework and training of our therapists.
http://www.bt.no/meninger/kronikk/Ikke-svikt-disse-familiene_-Horne-3590170.html
If this educated man is correct, it seems like you need to use the American therapy in all cases as it is getting better results than your other methods, Knut.
I am aware that Sweden generally does a worse job than Norway in CPS cases.
You have read the statistics for 2014, Octavian – in 2014, 53 100 children received measures from the Child Welfare Services, which is about the same level as in 2013. The number of children with care measures among these has increased by 6 per cent. A total of 9 600 children received care measures in 2014 and 43 500 children received assistance measures.
https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/statistikker/barneverng/aar/2015-07-09
I know you can your math and you have much of the same CPS in your own backyard and all over the Western world.
Please, Knut, we are not mathematically illiterate. In a country the size of America we will have more cases than you. Will you compare percentages please, apples to apples as they say?
Nice icelandic horses – in younger days we had two of those.
Thank you for sharing, Arianne.
Thus, Iceland listens to the children, at least in this case.
There have been false claims that the Barnevernet listens to children’s wishes.
I am happy that there are judges like these left in the world who have the child’s best interest in mind.
I see you are working on this every day of the week now, Knut. You must be concerned for your job. I’m off to Church and Sunday School. I’ll check back to see what else you have decided to put here.
Haha, the video has a screamingly funny conversation between somebody and a municipality or something. “Somebody” asks whether there are any CPS offices which have a definition of “the best interest of the child”. The answers are typical mumbo jumbo, the kind that the Norwegian people usually put up with, perhaps in the belief that the authorities REALLY know it although …
I forgot to say that the conversation was between a Norwegian enquirer and a NORWEGIAN Barnevern official, not Icelandic.
Hi Marianne. the Phone conversation is actually between me, the mother of the child, and a “fagleder”…you know, those at the Barnevern office who has the main responsibility that what they do, follow the quality of their trade. She works for Kongsberg Barnevern. In this case, Iceland was did not agree upon the “quality standards” in this case. the recording is from sometime in April 2015.
I’m posting a very important link where you have Minister Horne in Norway explaining in English the policies of the Government concerning how Barnevernet should conduct themselves.
Knut have claimed all along that we do not know the details in the Bodnariu case.
But we do know the details.The Romanian Parliament are in the possession of the documents which Norway have send to them in which is shown clearly that before the children ware taken no proper investigation was done and no assessment of the parents.
We have protested against such organization like Barnevernet which disregard even the guidelines their Minister have set for them.
Total chaos in Norway with disastrous consequences.
Because we have been protesting, people in Norway like Knut have been uneasy about our protest and have called us activists.
We are what we are and if you want you owe us respect for standing up for the liberation of the people in Norway from such form of abuse which was done not only to the Bodnariu family but hundreds other.
Listen to her:
I am watching the video with Solveig Horne now, Daniel. It is interesting and illustrative, because this is the way they all talk, but it has no real significance for what they do. She chatters on and says such nonsense. One point:
Horne says that Barnevernet should teach parents how to manage their children in other ways than by physical punishment. It sounds ok, but are Barnevernet’s people fit to teach anybody anything, they with their weird philosophy and no common sense or realistic understanding of the challenges of ordinary life and children’s needs?
She repeats the claim that 80% of what they do concerns “help in the home”, i.e. not removing the children from their family. Well, what kind of “help”? Telling families how they should arrange their household and housework, demanding that the children shall be with other families (selected and paid by Barnevernet) for week-ends to provide “relief” for a “stressed and troubled” family, that other family asking the children all sorts of things to get them to say that things are not all right at home, hammering away at parents and children that everything they do is wrong, offering the parents “marriage and family guidance by experts” because Barnevernet says their sex life is abnormal, planting a Barnevern employee in the house day in day out to sit there and write down everything everybody does and says which is “wrong”. They can demand that the whole family move to a “family centre” to “learn”. That is still not to remove the children, so it can be counted as “help in the home/family.” It means even stronger supervision, sometimes with monitoring cameras, and often implies that neither parent will be able to work in their job, because they are forced to move long distances, so they are drained financially as well as emotionally. And Barnevernet does not count the total of what they do of this sort in a family as ONE item of help, they count each little part of it as one item. So no wonder they can say that 80% of what they do is help in the home, or they interview parents in this kind of situation about whether they are satisfied with the “help” they receive – guess how many are able to say “no”. If the family says, “This is meaningless, we are going home” (from the family centre) or “We don’t want people here instructing us all the time, we want peace and privacy”, then the children are taken by Barnevernet immediately. – Notice Horne says in the video that what goes on in family life is not a private matter in Norway.
Then Horne talks about Norway having implemented the Hague convention, and what a great stride forwards she considers that to be. Well, there the video Arianne posted above is a “live illustration” of exactly the way Norway intends it to work: We are going to use it to demand children be returned to Norway to foster care if the parents have succeeded in fleeing abroad to get some peace for both children and parents! Can I yet once more “press” on you (I am sure I have linked to it before but never mind) what Norway did in the case of a Polish girl, who was taken by Barnevernet because she had been sad and unhappy at school on account of her grandmother having died? :
“Judgment in Poland: a nine-year-old girl NOT to be extradited to Norway”
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page229/page229.html
The girl is living with her mother in Poland still, I believe (she was interviewed on tv a couple of years ago), they cannot come to Norway; the father works in Norway and goes back and forth between work and his wife and child.
And if a family tries to use the Hague convention the opposite way, like the Bodnarius demanding that the children be sent to relatives in Romania, then Norway will impose conditions which let Norway send torrents of Barnevern workers to Romania to inspect, demand endless reports from Romania, subject the children there to questioning, straight-jacketed living, pay someone down there a whacking wage to supervise the family, for example a local Barnevern (Norway is, as you know, providing a lot of money to have the East-European countries build a Barnevern exactly like ours) – they will be hyperactive in order to keep a grip on the Bodnariu children forever even if they are allowed out of Norway. Something of the sort Norway did in the Indian Bhattacharya case and Sweden did in the Malaysia case.
You have no real information to give – Mrs. M – your an outdated activist – here is some up-dated information especially for you
http://www.bufdir.no/en/English_start_page/
We cooperate with families the whole week trough, Mrs. M. CPS work with families and home visits are a part of that all over the Western world. You don’t like public visitors, Mrs. M?
You are the nobody, Knut Nygaard. Your supe-rich employer, so-called Barnevernet, is ridiculed throughtout the civilized world. You attack families and deplace children. It is monstrous. I have the highest regard for Marianne Haslev Skånland, and I object to your rude reference to her as “Mrs. M”. But then you are typical of the socialworkers employed by B. Rudeness is your way of behaving.
The Bodnariu-children will be released from their prison eventually. We are a patient lot. In the meantime the protests will continue. Next demonstration is in Oslo on 28 May, 2016 in front of the Norwegian parliament, called Stortinget. Have courage in the face of evil.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/946004698753793/permalink/1116441481710113/
Why is there a split in the organizing of demonstrations in Oslo – and why don’t some of you protest in front of the city hall in Naustdal – a week or two – a bus load? None of these demonstrations have any impact on the ongoing legal case anyhow – neither the one organized 28.05 and the next by another group of activists 11.06.
“You have no real information to give – Mrs. M – your an outdated activist.”
Very wrong again, Knut, on both counts.
“Next demonstration is in Oslo on 28 May, 2016 in front of the Norwegian parliament, called Stortinget. Have courage in the face of evil.”
Excellent, Cecilie!
Mr Nygaard: ” You don’t like public visitors, Mrs. M?”
Quite correct, I would not like public employees invading my home, especially not if they were pretending to be “cooperating” with me. Nor do Barnevernet’s victims. If somebody says they like Barnevernet interfering like that, it is fairly sure to be a family that is so threatened by Barnevernet that they are scared to show it, and so they try to pacify you by saying they like you. Not to have any respect for one’s private life causes stress and is detrimental to health.
Solveig Horne says that what happens inside the family is not a private matter. She is thinking of serious abuse, of course, but it is not practiced like that and she has no excuse for not knowing what the actual practice is like. Barnevernet invades everything a family does, so that there is no freedom and privacy left whatsoever.
The Polish girl Nikola Rybka wasn´t taken to care because she was sad. She was rather a victim of her parents violent quarrels (Parents divorced in 2012 and Nikola has no contact with her father who has lived in Norway until now). In this case BV worked hard to improve situation in this family for 3 years, but without much success.BV came in this family after they had received information about domestic violence (father hit mother and the police was called to pacify the situation). The family got some money and better accomodation after the first meeting with local BV. But the situation hadn´t improve. Nikola complained at school that she was often hungry and that parents had been arguing all the time, she was late for school in spite of living nearby. BV offered the help to family-the neighbours were willing to help Nikola with school duties (her parents did not speak Norwegian, just basic and they could not check what was going on at school), BV paid leisure activities for Nikola as well. The parents were encouraged to take part in a kind of family counseling to calm down their conflicts (free of charges). Nikola´s father would have agreed with this proposal, but mother rejected… and nothing happened. Nikola´s father visited local BV lately to inform them about the fact that mother had driven with Nikola to her lover and the lover (boyfriend of mother) tended to cling on Nikola abusively. The situation became to be worse since the mother had to sleep in her car during nights because she hadn´t been allowed to get in the house, her husband (father) started to lock the doors. The night before takeover of Nikola was quite dramatic. Mother was drunken, but it didn´t stop her to drive car from her lover to home. She neverthless couldn´t go home, the doors were locked, she should have slept outside in the car… again. But she resisted to it and there was a lot of arguing, noise and shouts all the night. Nikola was awaken (she couldn´t sleep much for longer peirod of time due to these night disturbances) and she asked parents to call a police. She helped her mother to her own room through the window this night….
The emergency decision was put into force the day after this violent night. Nikola was 10 years and she couldn´t sleep during nights, her parents were unwilling to respect her rights for good uprbringing. It was not said that the girl should remain in care, because any permanent solution had been enacted before the family disappeared. Yes, Nikola escaped to her mother and was taken to Poland. The Polish court whose duty was to discuss the case upon the Norwegian demand took into consideration that the parents had separated after leaving Norway (and they are divorced now). Nikola´s mother blames father for all problems on her Facebook page, she claims that he wanted to set up new relationship with a Norwegian and he wanted to send Nikola to foster care,but we don´t know if it is the truth. Rybka family can travel to Norway, mother went there last year because her older son (residing in Norway) died and the funeral was held in Norway (Two older sons of Mrs. Rybka had some problems with drugs in their teenage years and they settled in the UK and Norway later).
My source of information (you may use google translator as me, Polish and Czech languages are similiar to each other, but we- Czechs- don´t understand longer Polish article without translator- 3 pages): http://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/spoleczenstwo/1522617,1,porwanie-w-majestacie-prawa.read
Well, you seem to know it all. It remains that the girl wanted to get away from the CPS institution and she has expressed that she wanted to be with her parents or mother.
“Notice Horne says in the video that what goes on in family life is not a private matter in Norway.
“Then Horne talks about Norway having implemented the Hague convention, and what a great stride forwards she considers that to be. Well, there the video Arianne posted above is a “live illustration” of exactly the way Norway intends it to work: We are going to use it to demand children be returned to Norway to foster care if the parents have succeeded in fleeing abroad to get some peace for both children and parents!”
In America, a kind term for someone like this is a “control freak,” Marianne.
Marianne your input is priceless. I honor you for having the courage to stand up to this sick organization called Barnevernet.Knut has called you brainwashed, but I replied, telling him that he and the others who are trying to save Barnevernet from sinking are having serious problems.
Marianne you are not alone. Thousands like myself from the ends of the earth are appalled by the actions of Barnevernet.
This name will remain in history as a cursed name, and if i ever come to Norway, it will only be to protest against Barnevernet.
Daniel, thank you for the kind words toward the professor. She has been an invaluable resource for many who are fighting against Barnevernet.
Daniel, thank you. It does matter to me that somebody finds what I try to provide in the way of information useful. I think most of the things Mr Nygaard writes on DiT are actually, in their way, illustrative about the realities too, so perhaps comparing what I write with his comments throws some additional light on matters. Maybe against his will, but all the more useful.
The reason why I try to give links and encourage people to read them, is that I don’t want to be the only source of information. I would like people who are interested in contributing to having the Barnevern abuses stopped, not to have to depend on what I or some others say, but to be as independent as possible. One will be more independent in one’s judgments – and therefore able to contribute the most useful work oneself – the more well-informed one is. Ordinary science or exploratory investigation of any kind consists partly in finding comparative evidence or would-be evidence from different sources. Granted, I seldom refer people to the standard CPS literature or claims. That is because this dominates the mainstream media and discussions therein, our courts, and the common culture so strongly already, there is no need for me to repeat it. The information that runs counter to this ‘politically correct’ ideology, however, I try to find from as many sources as possible, and to have it verified if I can.
Mr Nygaard is right in saying that what I am doing does not really require courage. I am not so vulnerable because I don’t have children or grandchildren who can be attacked or taken hostage. Nor can the authorities make trouble for me at work, since I am retired. No doubt some people would like to put me in prison if they can – well, I would like to see a lot of THEM in prison for what they have done and are doing to children and their families, so I am not unfamiliar with that reaction.
A number of Norwegians are actually put in prison for trying to help children under Barnevernet escape or giving them some other kind of relief. If a fugitive youngster from CPS care turns up on your doorstep late one evening, you can NOT give him/her a bed for the night or call the parents and join them in helping or going out against Barnevernet in any way. The police will arrest you, and you will be facing a criminal charge and quite likely be sentenced to prison. A lot of these newspaper articles have been removed by the newspapers carrying them, but the titles can perhaps be google-translated and give some idea of what things are like. There are quite a lot, even though they do not cover very many years:
“Barn og foreldre som blir straffet for opprør mot barnevernet” (Children and parents who are punished for revolt against Barnevernet)
http://barnasrett.no/tema/straff_for_oppror_mot_barnevernet.htm
“Barn og familier på flukt fra barnevernet” (Children and families fleeing from Barnevernet)
http://www.barnasrett.no/tema/flukt.htm
This article is perhaps especially interesting; it gives an example of what kind of people help CPS refugees when “good citizens” do not: people who are often in great trouble with society or the law themselves:
“Skjulte 16-årig pike på flukt fra barnevernet” (Hid 16-year-old girl fleeing from Barnevernet)
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/skjulte-16-aaring-for-barnevernet/a/228918/
This girl and her mother had previously rented an apartment in the house of the man. He was a previously convicted bank-robber, that was in the past, though, and he acted very decently here: The girl turned up, frozen, having fled from a foster home far away for the umptieth time. The man was of course prosecuted for having let her come in. – I think it may be necessary to think of some of these cases of children fleeing from CPS care (on average there are escapes every day) and those who help them in the light of “publicans and sinners” – you know what I mean.
I think you are too old to construct reactions to your opinions, Mrs. M, that are not real or relevant – you should also be too smart to do that – no one in Norway outside this movement give the language professor any considerations at all – she is a nobody.
The first link tells of lots of episodes where parents or relatives involved in a CPS case treatens or act in way where the assistance of the police is needed. I think the same would have been done in Arizona or California when a public servant is under attack.
The last link – all the way back to 2004 – is about a 16 year old girl who had fled several times from her fosterhome – this time ending up with a notirous criminal and his comrades. Some of these gangsters were charged for holding the girl away from her parents/care givers. The 16 year old girl had been in foster home since she was 13. Ten months ago she started run aways. The article said nothing about how this case ended or about punishment.
Mr Knut you can not, but attack who ever is having an different opinion than that of yours.Your mentality reminds me of the Communist mentality under which we have grown up.I must say that under Ceausescu in Communist Romania we have not seen the level of degradation we see is happening in Norway today. under Barnevernets tyranny.It is sickening to think about. I do not have words to ex prim what i feel.And you Mr Knut are taking sides with the corrupt system. I remember when the Communists feel in Romania in 89 , what a quick end.They thought no one will stand them, but their end came soon.God will take His revenge on all people who oppress their fellow brothers as Barnevernet is doing now.
Knut, as a representative of barnevernet, you have taught me how you are. It is shameful to see your total lack of good manners and respect!
Mr Nygaard: “The last link – all the way back to 2004 – is about a 16 year old girl who had fled several times from her fosterhome – this time ending up with a notirous criminal and his comrades. Some of these gangsters were charged for holding the girl away from her parents/care givers. The 16 year old girl had been in foster home since she was 13. Ten months ago she started run aways. The article said nothing about how this case ended or about punishment.”
The girl and her mother were far from of the opinion that the girl was “held” by criminals in the sense of that being against her will. It was Barnevernet who wanted to hold her, and she had fled from them repeatedly.
The story is one that might make us reflect: When “nice” people will not help a girl and her mother, then maybe that pushes them in the direction of people who are or have been criminals. Mr Nygaard, and no doubt his Barnevern colleagues, are usually very virtuously angry at parents who have anything to do with crime and drugs. So they are pillars of society. At the same time Mr Nygaard’s condemnation of how this man tried to help daughter and mother, might be held up against what is VERY well knownand which is reported again and again: A lot – actually a LOT – of young people who are taken by Barnevernet are introduced to drugs AT Barnevernet’s institutions. It may be peddled by other youngsters there, but the staff does not seem to do very much about it. And I know of one case personally where a CPS worker who installed two little girls forcibly in an institution, was himself caught one day, his car containing guns, money and drugs.
Your reflections are just yours, Mrs. M – we others don’t have your activist way to twist word and focus.
In the USA they seem to think this is the way to help young ones to turn before it’s too late
In Norway they are handed over to the CPS and given help according to among others the Child Welfare Act § 4-24:
Section 4-24. Placement and retention in an institution without the child’s own consent.
A child who has shown serious behavioural problems
– in the form of serious or repeated criminality
– in the form of persistent abuse of intoxicants or drugs or
– in other ways ( f.i. prostitution and vagabonding)
may without his or her consent or the consent of the person with parental responsibility for the child be placed in an institution for observation, examination and short-term treatment for up to four weeks, or for a shorter period as determined in the order. In the event of a renewed order, the period of placement may be extended by up to a further four weeks.
In these institutions they are strip searched and there is no tolerance for any drug. They are tried to help from A to B to … and the final step is living outside the institution with some support.
Knut when children and teens are fleeing foster homes and institutions, then it means that they are probably not so happy there. They dont want to stay there. Why is nobody listening to them then? Seriously a 16 year old had to flee, I thought 16 year old has her say in her case?
Why do you only listen to the children, when they say something against their parents..and its called evidence then, or when they are estranged from their families and want to meet their families less or not to meet them at all (I also know about such a case). You forget to ask the children and teens all the time in between.
No, it’s much more close to truth that they run to get back the freedom they had to harm themselves and their future. Mrs. M brought in a “reflection” about drugs and where drugs and criminality – the police has been involved a.s.o. this end up as forced placement. There was no drugs in the story with the 16 year old girl – it was our language professor that just had a “reflection”.
“I think you are too old to construct reactions to your opinions, Mrs. M, that are not real or relevant.”
Seriously, Knut, her brain has got yours in a headlock.
Mr Nygaard: “No, it’s much more close to truth that they run to get back the freedom they had to harm themselves and their future.”
So Mr Nygaard thinks that when young people flee from foster / institutional care, they want freedom to destroy themselves.
Statistics are heavily against him, though. Youngsters in CPS care and adults who were previously in CPC care have a very seriously hightened frequency of all sorts of destruction. Cf the list of • points here: http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page124/page124.html
These • points are all based on statistics from many reports, some of them Norwegian, some of them from other countries. No statistics from anywhere show that CPS children do better than children from valid comparison groups growing up at home. “Valid comparison groups” means that other variables are controlled for, so that e.g. the CPS children come from the same kind of social and economic environment as the children in the comparison group.
Thank you, for the comfort of finding someone with documented truth about CPS children’s future destroyed by the evildoers of Barnevernet. Wow, power and money really blinds. They won’t take in consideration anything that stands in their way.
Daniel: “.. if i ever come to Norway, it will only be to protest against Barnevernet.”
Please call if you come through Oslo! There is as yet no prohibition against a logo on your shirt saying “Stop Barnevernet!” either, and so far applications to demonstrate, marching down and up the main street and holding speeches in the park area in front of parliament, have been granted. (Parliament has to be applied to in addition to the police, because they hold ownership of the park area there.) You are just not supposed to trample on the grass so that you ruin the little lawn!
Thank you Marianne I am considering that seriously.
Marianne, I don´t know if you have studied psychology of children? Children are extremely loyal to their parents, even in cases when there is a real violence, torture or neglect.Not always, every child or even human being is unique , but children reactions are not always proof that their parents are good/ awful and I think that a deeper investigation should be done.
In this case BV employees had dificult task to solve and they haid tried to change family situation for 3 years. In my opinion the parents should have visited skilled family psychologist and/or separeted much earlier.
I do know this case becuase it was discussed in the Czech republic in depth and many people found the story too absurd, so they studied the material and articles about the case (and yes, it´s not bad at all in Norway if you are sad because your grandma is seriously sick, the Rybka´s story is quite different).
I think you are very biased toward CPS. They do serious mistakes, but their work may be valuable and helpful as well (it depends on case, community, people in charge of a family) I know about Czech parents living in Norway who were helped by BV and who were happy with that help (they weren´t in any risk of losing their child).
Some extremist CPS haters even wrote a false report of concern about a family of Czech father living in West Norway. He was threated and he was even told by some opponents that he should taste something from BV medicine as he defends them permanently. He doesn´t know who was the author of this denuciation but his local BV employee was very symphatetical to him. They informed him about thelletter and they discussed with him the possibility to find and eventually sue “an unknown denuciator”- nothing more.
Children are loyal to their parents, however, children can be manipulated with leading questions and they have no idea that these questions are meant to get the parents in trouble.
This is what happened in the Bodnariu case. The daughter said: “I am tired of inventing things”
Based on that statement alone:
1. The testimony should be disregarded
2. It should be evident that the children were questioned in an unethical manner.
I don’t believe everything that come out that easily as a true observation, Mr Prunean. I have been in many courts and believe me – at least try – that if it had been so – that the girl involved had said that and the parents lawyer know it – we don’t know if that sentence was written down – if not – where is it coming from? – one of the parent given to the organization or? – if done and all the other material leaking out from the organization is details for legal discussions – not for activist commenting on a blog. I have asked many times – what do the lawyers do to help the family to get reunited? Here we have an ex-lawyer in Reikerås and a Houston lawyer who know little or nothing about Norwegian law, but I think they all do everything they can to try to help – or??
Knut I have a question for you. I see that even if the parents get (some of) their children back, CPS often appeals with stay order. They did not do that in the Bodnariu case. Do you have an explanation, when CPS does appeal with stay order and when they do not?
I also dont understand , why would they increase the visitation to the boys..this all seems to be that they are working on reuniting of the family. Why otherwise would the court increase visitation and return the baby, if the next court would take them away again?
I have no answers to give in an ongoing case where I don’t know what the documents involved tell. The parents and their lawyers have full insight. I have no explanation without documents – it’s there we find the answer. It’s case has unique details.
“I have been in many courts.”
Lord, have mercy.
Agreed- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7d2GFbp-pc
I want to respond to Mr Knut.
He demands our acceptance of all Barnevernet was doing, and is doing, as if God Himself is doing it.
Mr Knut, Barnevernet as an organization deserves none of our respect or acceptance.
What minister Horne says about Barnevernet is of no effect. None of her guidelines have been respected by her staff in the Bodnariu case or many other cases.
In respect to this issue, it’s like we should have listened to Ceausescu explaining one thing or another. Everybody already knew the tyranny he and his party were imposing on its people.Rather, we would have all listened to anybody who would testify against communism because the system was corrupt and everybody knew that.
Wait and see how countless more people will hear about the abuses of Barnevernet. None of you will be able to stop what is coming your way.
Why not admit right away the wrongs and work toward correcting them? I will take my hat off for such people.But you decided not to be one of those.
You prefer to wait and go down with the boat.
Very well said Daniel. I hope Mr. Knut will find some common sense and allow the spirit of righteousness piercing his heart. Do you know that he claims that he is Christian? What blinds him?
Veronika, you are right that children are loyal to their parents, but if the children were treated very badly and placed in a good foster home, they would adapt easily to the foster parents. They would not want to go back after a year or two. That is, if they are old enough. On the other side, if you take a small child and allow him to meet his parents only few times a years, that child will get estranged. Anybody can see that. This should never happen. In an interview Anette Krogvig a CPS representative, has even described a situation when the children were placed in care. There were 3 children, the oldest was overweight and was often caring for his youngest siblings. The house was not well organized and mother had problems. There was nothing mentioned about any kind of violence in that home. After some time when things did not get better, all 3 children were placed in care. The oldest boy was able to see his mother often, but not the younger ones. The reason was that they could establish strong relationship to the foster parents. This is the core of the problem. How can a family ever get their children back, if they are estranged from them? I hear about so many cases, where the parents can only see the children few times a year, sometimes there is not a word about violence or abuse, but more insufficient care or lack of parental ability (like Maxine for example). Its wrong.
I do know some families (here in CZ) who has taken care for children in need from dysfunctional environment… and there is no rule how these children behave or adapt to foster family. It seems to be quite ok when the children are small but teenage years may be challenging. Teenagers tend more to behave antisocially, they escape from their foster family, they may steal some money from foster wallets or join some group of drug users or heavy drunkers. Sometimes they tries to find their biological relatives who haven´t had any interest in them until that time but suddenly, they want to receive some money from the child etc,, etc. I admire all people who work as foster home, because it´s demanding and the ends are not always happy. I wrote about my experiences, but you might read a book from Tereza Brdečková “Rok kohouta” which deals exactly with the burden and challenges of being foster or even adoptive parent.
Every case is unique. I can understand that the visitation rights may be very limited in cases when the parents are violent and they did harm to their child. I realized that the Norwegian law has been critized recently by former foster children because it doesn´t prohibit visitation rights for all parents who were violent to their children. So I think that in some cases it´s justified that the child has not frequent contacts with his or her parents. In other cases another rules should apply and there should be more intensive contact with relatives, but it´s important to know more details about the family. We (for example) do not know why Maxine was taken into care. We know that her mother is deaf, but it could not be a reason under Children Act. It´s also known that the mother was raised up in a foster family from the age of 3 and that she escaped at the age of 17 (she wasn´t happy with strict rules and Christianity in her foster family), but it again couldn´t be legal reason. So I can´t judge the family or CPS…I haven´t read the files for the Court.
Pavla: “Veronika, you are right that children are loyal to their parents,”
The reason why children are “loyal” to their parents is that they love them, with a deep, instinctual love which does not depend on the parents being perfect, not even “good” all the time. It is not a loyalty produced by tyranny, the way CPS personnel and their psychologists often portray it as, when they do not understand why children seek refuge with their parents.
Marianne I understand that and I think it is like that in most cases. Children just want to stay at home and they feel safe at home. I do understand though that sometimes children would want to stay with their parents even though something bad is happening in the family, like sexual abuse, without realizing that its wrong. But I do think these cases are very rare. As you said, sexual abuse by biological family is very rare. I would want to know, what was the reason for removing the children in most of the cases.
Veronika, you say that we have to take in mind the age and maturity of the children when they state a wish to stay at home? Well the same should be when what they say is taken as evidence against the parents. How about a small child that would say for example : my dad hit me..what is hit for a 4, 5 year old. It can mean slap, spank, or heavy beating. You can not find out from testimony of such a child what the real situation is .
Btw. we know that with Maxine, there was no violence or anything like that used as the original accusation. Mostly you will hear from the parents what the accusations are. We have heard it from Bodnariu, from Eva Michalakova and also from others. So if the parents (and the organization who helps them) dont mention it, then I believe them.
Of course children can be manipulated by parents. Proper evidence has to be sought for such manipulation or undue influence before the child’s elementary wish to stay with its parents should be set aside. Jumping to conclusions or grabbing handy speculations is not reliable and should not be allowed any place in such a decision. There is far greater likelihood of a child being manipulated by the CPS, foster persons and others, who do not love them and who have interests of their own, than by parents. Because of the far greater statistical chance of a child coming to grief in other environments than with its parents, far more serious investigation and demand for real proof is needed that what is done at this time in history.
If no proper evidence is found (by ordinary, serious police investigation, not by psychobabblers) that the parents have committed any serious transgressions against the child, the child should not have to JUSTIFY its wish to stay with its parents.
And the polish newspaper knows the exact story because they have access to the file? Even if, how do we know if the claims are true? Maybe the daughter, who was 9 at that time and is about 14 years now..would be the most reliable source. I agree that she was not taken because she was sad. The family also got financial help. The mother has forbidden Nikola to play with the neighbour girl. I hope that is a right of every parent. I don’t know about the other things like alcohol and fights between the parents.
A core fact is that neither the CPS nor people round about should be entitled to judge about a child who says she wants to be with her parents, whether her wish is genuine or not, whether she should “be allowed to” or not. It is an obvious transgression, especially if one places children’s rights centrally and claims to respect them. The child should not have to come up against some trial to prove anything about her wish.
Yes, the newspapers had some insight into details as the Polish court discussed the case. There is not true that girl was forced to play with someone, quite opposite, parents wanted to have expenses for leisure activities paid because the girl was alone. The article of serious Tydenik Politika (in Czech translation) was in fact symhatetic to parents, but they couldn´lie about domestic violence, police calls, refusal of family counselling etc.
Maybe is not true, but is it true what the mother or the others from the family are saying about the case or are stories published on website of CPS opponents really trustworthy?
Yes, we should be cautious, I think, which is not always the case with CPS critiques. They blindly believe in stories which are told to them by a family and it´s wrong- the same fault as to believe blindly in authorities I would say.
For example we know that the mother blames the father and that they detest each other. May we check that these words of mother are true?: 1.červenec 2015 (my translation of date 1.6. 2015) Helena Rybka on facebook:
Dziś czwarta rocznica… Dziękuje z całego serca Krzysiowi Rutkowskiemu,oraz innym będącym z nami.To dzięki Wam, dziś mam dziecko. Jedynie tzw. ojciec dziecka, był niezadowolony obrotem sprawy,Był bardzo przekonany ,że zbudował swoje szczęście na dziecka nieszczęściu, zamieniając dziecka miłość, na nową ? Dziś jednak, ja mam swoje szczęście, jest nim moje dziecko, a mój mąż? szczęście po roku go opuściło i dalej szuka kolejnego szczęścia Lecz nie ma już kogo,oddać do rodziny zastępczej w Norwegii … Chyba ,że się… aby mieć nową rodzinę…
https://www.facebook.com/helena.rybka (Translation from google: Today the fourth anniversary … Thank you with all my heart Krzysiu Rutkowski, and the other being with us.To thanks to you, now I have a child. Only the so-called. the child’s father, was unhappy of turn of events, was very confident that built their happiness on the misfortune of the child, changing the child’s love for the new? Today, however, I have my happiness, it is my baby, and my husband? Fortunately, after a year left him and continued looking for the next happiness But there is already someone, who wants to give back child to the foster family in Norway … I think that is … to have a new family …
https://www.facebook.com/helena.rybka- you can read the status of that day).
I dont´think so. We don´t know if the so called father of Nikola was disappointed that the girl had not stay in foster family.It´s only claim, someone said something… like very often in these stories.
And:Helena Rybka Wioletko to dokument na faktach , gdzie największą rolę odegrał ojciec. To jego intrygi skutkowały zabraniem dziecka.Był przekonany,że wykorzysta je pod przykrywką instytucji BV, która faktycznie pozbawia rodzin dzieci, oraz przekonany, że nigdy prawda nie wyjdzie. Powodem najprawdopodobniej była bojaźń alimentacyjna, gdyż miał w tym czasie inny związek. No życie i wydawać by się mogło, że tak dobrze znamy osoby z którymi żyjemy, a jednak nie. A zrobienie takiego czegos własnemu dziecku , to brak człowieczeństwa.Chciał zachować twarz, gdzie w tym dokumencie, wręcz pytająco wodzi oczami… czy Oni wiedzą że to ja ? ojciec dziecka. Brak słów !!! (Translation- for Czech speakers is maybe more understable in original, though: Helena Rybka Wioletko a document on the facts, where the greatest role was played by her father. That’s the intrigue resulted in takeover of the child.He was convinced that it will use them under the guise of the institution BV, which actually deprives families of children, and convinced that the truth never comes out. The reason was probably entertain fear of paying for the child in the future, because he had at this time a different compound. No life, and it would seem that we so well know the people with whom we live, and yet not. And doing something like this to his own child, is the lack of humanity. He wanted to save face, in this document, even questioning eyes … whether they know it was me? father of the child. No words !!!
Should we trust her, was it the father´s plan to remove his own child from family? We don´t know as always in these cases. So it is difficult to make conclusion about anything.
Marianne, the laws (in Norway, in the Czech republic) and the international treaties state that the child´s wishes and opinion should be heard but we should take into account the maturity and the age of a child- not to do blindly what she or he wishes. The child may be manipulated. You usually write about the BV manipulation, but haven´t you experienced the manipulation of a child by parents? And child who has been living in violent, agressive family – even don´t need to know that it is wrong (and that the incest is wrong, I know about the case when the girl of 10 thought that many fathers have sex with children, she didn´t see the pathology of her family at first).It would be a crime if we returned a child to abusive, dangerous or neglecting family just because the child asked for it. It´s not written anywhere that the child words must be always respected in these cases. It depends on the age in the Czech republic- the child of 12 or older is for example investigated by the Court in the case which involved him or her (divorce, care,,,), but the younger children have speakers (a person from social service). I suppose that there are similar rules in work in Norway.
Norwegian regulations concerning the child’s spokesperson in CPS cases –
Section 1
The chairperson of the county social welfare board may appoint a particular spokesperson for the child in cases that are to be dealt with by the board pursuant to
section 7-2 of the Act.
Section 2
The chairperson of the county social welfare board shall draw up a list of selected persons who have experience of working with children, and who are willing to assume the task of spokesperson.
The spokesperson shall be chosen from the selection in this list. In special cases, however, a person who does not appear on the list may be appointed, if the child has a particular relationship of trust with the person in question.
Section 3
Persons who are employed in an agency that is dealing with the case in question may not be appointed spokesperson in the case. Nor should the spokesperson have a close connection with any person for whom the decision in the case may have a significant effect.
Section 4
After speaking with the child, the spokesperson shall present the case from the child’s point of view and give his or her independent assessment of the case.
The spokesperson shall be summoned to the meeting of the county social welfare board to discuss the case and shall submit an oral report to the board. He or she shall make the same affirmation as witnesses pursuant to the provisions of the Civil Procedure Act, and shall otherwise be examined pursuant to the same provisions insofar as they are appropriate.
Section 5
These Regulations shall come into force on 1 January 1994.
https://www.regjeringen.no/en/find-document/dep/BLD/Laws-and-rules/Regulations/2001/regulations-related-to-the-child-welfare/10/id420561/
The regulations where given more context in 2013, but I didn’t find them in english.
https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2013-02-18-203
“How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face from me?
2 How long must I take counsel in my soul
and have sorrow in my heart all the day?
How long shall my enemy be exalted over me?” Psalm 13
I have thought about this psalm of David from the bible lately. In the case of Bodnariu, and so many others, it is so heartbreaking to see how long this is going on. These parent`s and children`s pain who have been so brutally torn apart from each, other by heartless barnevernet workers, is also our pain.
It feels like everything is locked up . Barnevernet just goes on and on talking about the importance of giving “information” about their “rules” in Norway. Those who happen to have put just their little toe on the lawn, where it is not allowed, get their feet cut off.In other words; those who, for instance, happen to have spanked their children (which is an extremely mild form of corporal punishment leaving no scars), get their children taken away immediately by barnevernet and placed with seemingly “better parents”.
Barnevernet thinks they know and see everything clearly. But they have got one blind spot in their vision called “love”! They don`t seem to notice the love these parents have for their children. And they don`t understand that children need this love. I don`t know if many of them even know what love is. They never talk about it and refuse to talk about it when it is brought up. In their eyes, a parent is supposed to “function” like robots after their “rules”. That is why, they believe, it is so important to give “information”.
Meanwhile, the parents are just longing to show their children affection and love them. I don`t mean to say that foster parents can`t show affection and love for the children that are in their care. But if the biological parent is showing love for their child, nobody should separate the children from this love!
My impression of the Bodnariu children is that they don`t only have parents who love them a tiny little bit, but they used to be SHOWERED with love from all sides!!!! They have parents, brothers, sisters, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and a whole community of Christian brothers and sisters all over the world who loves them! Not only were the Bodnariu children separated from their loving parents but also from this loving community! And that is also why Marius relatives mobilized such an enormous campaign to get the Bodnariu children back. It is because they are a family that love!!!!!!
You are spot on Hildi, may our Lord Jesus Christ deliver the many oppressed by Barnevernet out of their hands.
I just wanted to share this song I wrote recently. I wrote it partly because I am very touched by the Bodnariu story. Jesus sympathizes with our pain. The shortest verse in the bible is “Jesus wept” (John 11:35). You can read the whole story about why he wept in John 11:1-44.
I am in the process of making my first CD with 11 original songs. It will be out some time this summer. There will be acoustic music in many different genres (ballads, blues, gospel, country, hymns, jazz) made by professional musicians. I will keep you informed when it is out. I will make it available on Itunes. This song won`t be on it. The songs on the CD have gone through a long rewriting process, so they will be much better. This song is still in its raw version. But if you`d like, you can have a listen to it:-)
This is beautiful, Hildi.
Beautiful and true.
One of these days, God will say “enough” to all of the pain caused by the BV.
BTW…I’m putting this wonderful song on my blog.
Thank you Chris!:-) I pray that my songs can touch people with the message and be a blessing!:-)
You’re welcome. This song has already touched this person.
Marianne wrote;
“And I know of one case personally where a CPS worker who installed two little girls forcibly in an institution, was himself caught one day, his car containing guns, money and drugs.”
Due to the secrecy and trust Barnevernet operates within,I believe that they create a perfect environment where criminals can work out there evil deeds. It also seems that whenever something comes to the surface, it is quickly covered again.
I see you too have found a new Master and that you believe everything this activist tell as truth. The Master gave a link to a story from a paper telling the reader that a girl ran away and ended up in the “protection” of Norway’s most famous bank robber. Then the Master “reflects” and twist her comment to be about the possiblility to come in touch with drugs in the care of CPS given in an institution. Notice that the language professers use caps locks on “LOT” and “VERY” and you as the diciple you have become reflects that such environments are perfect for criminals – as you believe it. Do you? Are you really that ….d?
You are very disrespectful, Knut!
Mr Nygaard seems to move in circles I am less acquainted with. I have never heard of this “most famous” bankrobber outside of this particular story, I think.
Veronika wrote;
“They do serious mistakes, but their work may be valuable and helpful as well (it depends on case, community, people in charge of a family) ”
It is exactly because of the serious mistakes that we cannot keep silent but have to act!
You cannot guarantee either that a child that is taken away from their biological family and placed with foster parents are placed with “better” parents. It might just as well be caretakers who o more harm than good. Even if they may not spank the children, they might for instance belittle them because of their biological parents and background. in the Bodnariu case, for instance, the caregivers of the boys laughed and belittled one of the boys for singing a Christian song. Sometimes words hurt more than anything else…..
By the way, I believe what the caregivers did in the Bodnariu case is an example of bullying. And bullying is not good!
Hildi wrote: “You are very disrespectful, Knut!” Meating people with respect is important, specially when being a parent!
I live in USA and we don’t have a reason to protest because CPS in USA are really helping people that “need help “. So what is going on in Norway is despicable, and atrocious. I don’t have to listen to your propaganda Mr. Knut to know what happens in Norway. The cases are by thousands. All I have to do is ask Norwegians that have no fear of being punished after they escaped the gulag of Norway. Almost every one is telling me the same horrifying story. I didn’t know that in USA are so many Norwegian refugees leaving the Norwegian Paradise. You nobody for us. Didn’t figure out that you are a lough stack for this group and you don’t do any service for your master? By contrary you help us in finding out the Schemes and the horrible way Barnevernet operate. Got to be smart and pull out from your activity. You as guilty as The children Poaching System.
No, the fiction and the mixing up come from the chronics and the victims ( more reliable truth in many of these stories than in the activist library – but not the whole truth) – I try to give the truth – since this blog should have some kind of truth in it, but end up with you calling it propaganda. I have tried and will continue to try to tell you some truth – what you listen to is up to you. If I had been free from my duty silence to give you small glimpses of what I do during a working day I think you too Aristotel would have found my work both interesting and giving, You call truth propaganda – I can live with that – and as I have told you before – we in the CPS are humans working with humans – as Mr. Prunean as a doctor of some kind – we try to do our best, but some of us may do something wrong and thus we are in change and reform all the time – to be a public service to the best of children, partents – families.
Knut, if I do “something wrong” someone dies on the operating room table. If you do something wrong at least the world can protest so you can undo your error.
My margin for error is essentially ZERO. You can’t compare our professions.
A video from the Oslo demonstration with English and Norwegian texting is out. This Video 2 is the same as Video 1, but no 1 has Russian texting.
“Protest against Barnevern in Oslo 16.04.2016 interview video 2.
English Norsk version”
The text is in Norwegian when English is spoken, otherwise it is in English.
There will be longer videos coming, from two different photographers, with all the speeches, also with texting.
I hope you find something to appreciate in Video 2, it contains interviews with people, mostly parents – Barnevern victims – who were at the demonstration. Several are very touching. I also think what Russian-speaking Aslanbek says right at the end is food for thought: Thank God for the lawlessness in Russia – in other words: in contradistinction to the kind of law governing Barnevernet & co in Norway.
Very interesting video! Thank you Marianne!
What came into my mind when I saw this beautiful diversity of nationalities is that maybe Barnevernet wants children to be more or less the same. They seem to want to shape children after the “Norwegian Barnevernet Standard” just like when you use a cookie cutter to make the Norwegian “pepperkaker” (ginger cookies) all the same for Christmas…..Maybe Barnevernet doesn`t understand and accept cultural differences.
It was heartbreaking to hear them sharing about their children having been taken away from them.
Shame on Norway for such an injustice, we will not stop and spread the story to the shame of Norway.